The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast

Episode Title: Most People Are Starved for Connection | Ben Swire, Safe Danger
Host: Jenny Eric
Guest: Ben Swire, author of Safe Danger and founder of Make Believe Works
Air Date: December 6, 2025
Network: That Sounds Fun Network

Overview

This episode dives into the importance of real human connection in a world increasingly dominated by screens and risk aversion. Host Jenny Eric speaks with Ben Swire about his book Safe Danger: An Unexpected Method for Sparking Connection, Finding Purpose, and Inspiring Innovation. They explore why adults – especially introverts and skeptics – need more meaningful experiences at work and home, how experiential activities foster vulnerability and growth, and practical, playful ways to break down barriers in communities and organizations. The conversation is full of honest self-reflection, practical stories, and actionable insights from both the workplace and family life.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Ben Swire’s Unlikely Path from Wall Street to Connection Work

• Ben describes himself as "an introvert's introvert" who would "rather gnaw off a limb than do a skit or party games" ([00:55]).
• Transitioned from a decade in financial marketing on Wall Street to the renowned design firm IDEO, which redefined his view on work and human potential ([03:29]).

“It's sort of God's joke on me. Gonna make you very shy. Gonna make you an introvert. And now you will lead games with strangers that are skeptical.” – Ben Swire ([02:57])

2. IDEO and the Importance of Playful, Trust-Building Cultures

• IDEO’s culture: Celebrating people for who they are rather than just what they do ([08:22]).
• IDEO’s history of creative innovation (e.g., helping design the first mouse for Steve Jobs and Apple) through multidisciplinary teams ([13:32]).
• Bi-weekly "creative play dates" started by Ben to foster authentic connections and trust within the company ([12:54], [19:51]).

“Most companies celebrate you for what you do...IDEO was a place where they celebrated you for who you were.” – Ben Swire ([08:22])

3. Safe Danger—Balancing Risk and Trust for Connection

• The concept of “safe danger” is about giving people a chance to step outside their comfort zones in a controlled, empathetic environment ([06:36]).
• Emotional risk is practiced through playful, structured activities so vulnerability becomes muscle memory.
• Story of Ben’s daughter: Helping her face fear on the playground translates to adults learning to risk vulnerability at work ([06:36]).

“Most people are starved for connection and just don't know how to make it happen. And if you give them a chance, they'll embrace it.” – Ben Swire ([06:36])

4. Why Entertainment Isn’t Enough—The Power of Meaningful Challenge

• Simple workplace events (picnics, trivia nights) are less impactful than shared experiences involving personal risk, growth, and reflection ([23:05]).
• Transformative experiences come from overcoming challenges together.
• Activities that include a personal investment, not just “pass the time,” build lasting connection ([25:02]).

“Connection takes more than just sharing the same space or experience, no matter how fun that experience may be in the moment. It's about growth.” – Jenny Eric ([23:05])

5. Moving Beyond Competition to True Collaboration

• Many bonding activities lean into competition, which actually divides; meaningful connection requires inclusive, non-competitive play ([25:02]).
• Activities at Make Believe Works are designed to avoid putting the loudest people in control and instead draw out everyone’s story ([27:39]).

“If your goal is meaningful connection between people...competition inherently divides people.” – Ben Swire ([25:02])

6. Seven Qualities of Safe Danger for Experiential Understanding

• Safe Danger develops: joy, vulnerability, curiosity, optimism, connection, trust, and creativity ([37:05]-[37:54]).
• These are “muscles” developed through doing, not theory.
• Most people live by others’ rules and need environments to rediscover their authentic selves.

7. Deep Dive: Optimism and Pessimism

• Ben reframes pessimism as "repackaged fear" and “fear as a lifestyle,” not just negativity ([38:30]).
• Optimists not only live longer (as demonstrated humorously with deathclock.com) but also live more vibrant lives and foster resilience ([42:17]).

“Pessimism is repackaged fear. It encourages you to lock yourself away, to huddle...Optimism is earned. It's what gets us through dark moments.” – Ben Swire ([38:30])

8. Vulnerability—Uncovering Richness and Authenticity at Work

• Great leaders expand their people’s sense of self and encourage contributions beyond job descriptions ([46:19]).
• Activities for teachers: When they’re put in the vulnerable position of participants, not just facilitators, they develop deeper empathy for students ([46:39]).
• Sharing secrets or worries (even anonymously at conferences) provides authentic connection ([47:39]).

“Every great leader I’ve worked with has helped me understand myself better and inspired me to find new ways that I could contribute to the team beyond my job description.” – Ben Swire ([46:19])

9. Activities & Practical Takeaways

• Pick the Third Thing on the Menu: Inspired by Ben’s Uncle Herb, choosing the third item at restaurants as a small adventure to introduce novelty ([56:41]).
• Presenting Under Pressure: Improv-style presentations with random slide decks, reframing public performance as playful experimentation ([59:02]).
• “Moving Stories” Activity: Participants embody the process of overcoming internal creative blocks through movement—surprises participants with its power to reveal and foster self-understanding and empathy ([61:22]-[66:25]).
• Daily micro-habits: five minutes of trying something new, napping, learning simple skills—small, intentional steps to stretch comfort and joy ([56:06]).

“Part of [my uncle's] purpose in life was to surprise himself...He found something to like about it, but he also found something to talk about.” – Ben Swire ([56:41])

10. Loneliness, Work, and Joyful Productivity

• American workplaces and entire generations are facing a loneliness epidemic; real connection improves not just mood but performance ([27:39], [53:45]).
• Statistics: organizations that prioritize people over profit make four times the average profit and are happier, more resilient, and more innovative ([28:43]).
• Mood matters: individuals in a good mood are 31% more productive ([53:45]).

Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• “I would never have gone to one of my own workshops. Not voluntarily.” – Ben Swire ([01:34])
• “When you give people an opportunity to step outside their comfort zone, but make it safe for them...that's when they see, oh, I like this.” – Ben Swire ([06:36])
• “Forms of entertainment do little more than pass the time. ...If you add a little risk...then it becomes meaningful.” – Jenny Eric ([23:05])
• “Every great leader I’ve worked with has helped me understand myself better and inspired me to find new ways that I could contribute to the team beyond my job description.” – Ben Swire ([46:19])
• “Pessimism is repackaged fear. It’s fear as a lifestyle.” – Ben Swire ([38:30])
• “Forgiveness means giving up all hope of a better past.” – Anne Lamott, quoted by Ben Swire ([52:08])
• “Often the biggest obstacle to bringing more joy to our lives is ourselves.” – Jenny Eric ([54:02])
• “Favorite memory from my childhood was...I used to hide in the tree when my father would walk underneath it and pretend to be Robin Hood.” – Ben Swire ([67:00])

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Ben’s introversion and career transition – [00:53]-[03:29]
• IDEO, culture of trust, and creative play dates – [07:58]-[16:06]
• Safe danger: The theory and parental insights – [06:36]-[07:37]
• Why entertainment isn't enough: making time at work meaningful – [23:05]-[25:02]
• Competition vs. Collaboration – [25:02]-[27:39]
• Connection/screen time, loneliness in modern life – [27:39]-[30:45]
• Seven qualities: Safe Danger’s key “muscles” – [36:48]-[37:54]
• Optimism vs. Pessimism – [37:54]-[44:33]
• Vulnerability in leadership and group settings – [46:19]-[49:51]
• Favorite activities and practical tips – [55:48]-[59:02]
• "Moving Stories" activity: embodiment and learning – [61:11]-[66:25]
• Childhood outdoor memory – [67:00]

Memorable Moments & Insights

• The story of Ben’s journey from Wall Street to “creative platypus” at IDEO is both humorous and poignant.
• The tale of helping his young daughter face playground fear directly reflects how adults can practice vulnerability under “safe danger.”
• The “death clock” anecdote underscores the research-backed connection between optimism, health, and longevity.
• Uncle Herb’s “pick the third thing” captures the whimsical, low-stakes way we can all add more adventure and connection to daily life—even through lunch orders.
• Moving, personal closing story of Ben and his father playing Robin Hood—connecting through outdoor make believe and stories.

Practical Takeaways

• For parents, educators, and leaders: Build real connection with intentional risk, not just shared space. Allow time for honest, vulnerable sharing—even if it feels awkward.
• For organizations: Meaningful play is not childish—it's a tool for deeper teamwork, innovation, and joy.
• For individuals: Practice optimism, celebrate growth, and don’t be afraid to try the “third thing on the menu.” Expand your comfort zone in small ways and reflect on the experiences.
• Book to Read: Safe Danger by Ben Swire (includes both the theory and dozens of ready-to-use activities).

This episode is a rich, practical guide to building connection and courage in a disconnected, play-starved world—at home, at work, and everywhere we spend our precious minutes.