1KHO 647: Rediscovering the Power of Birth | Beth Barbeau, Indigo Forest

Summary

The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast

Episode: 1KHO 647: Rediscovering the Power of Birth | Beth Barbeau, Indigo Forest
Host: Ginny Urch
Guest: Beth Barbeau (Indigo Forest)
Date: December 11, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and enlightening conversation, Ginny Urch and midwife/educator Beth Barbeau explore the profound impact of birth experiences—not only on babies, but on mothers and families. Ginny shares her personal journey through five births, beginning with little information and progressing toward empowerment, with Beth offering wisdom, context, and a respect for every birth story. The episode underscores the transformative power of birth, the need for informed choices, and the importance of regaining generational wisdom around childbirth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Continuum of Birth & Health

• Beth: Emphasizes viewing birth, parenting, and health as a continuum rather than isolated events.
  • “Happy is healthy births, healthy lives because I see one leading into the other… I don’t know how to only talk about the day the baby comes out…to me, it all goes together.” (01:42)
• Advocates for holistic preparation over focusing exclusively on the moment of birth.

2. Birth Location and Informed Choice

• Beth’s Free Resource: A downloadable guide on the pros and cons of various birth locations is promoted, intended for everyone, regardless of birth plans.
  • “Even if somebody else in the family's having a baby, even if you already know you're having planned C-sections...this birth location download is really suitable for pretty much anybody.” (03:31)
• The guide is meant to foster empowered decision-making—knowing your options can reduce trauma and surprise during labor.

3. Respect for Every Birth Story

• Both hosts make clear: No single “right” way to birth—honoring caesareans, medicated, home, birth center, etc.
  • “Everyone listening—your birth story—everyone listening has been to at least one birth because we’ve said it before: they’ve all been born.” (04:33)
• The importance of respect and non-judgment in discussions about birth (04:33).

4. Ginny’s Early Birth Perspective: “No Idea”

• Ginny describes initially being under-informed and considering an elective C-section based on a friend’s positive experience:
  • “My friend had a C-section. I’m just gonna do the C-section. It’s 45 minutes, then it’s over.” (08:17)
• A gentle comment from a doula friend sparks research and change ("There are some pros to the baby coming through the birth canal." –09:12).

5. The Role & Value of Doulas

• Historical Context: Across generations, women were supported by experienced helpers: “There are 10,000 generations of successfully birthing women behind every single person listening to this podcast.” (10:00)
• Modern Doula Role: Critical support in any setting, not just home birth; Doulas provide advocacy, education, reassurance for both mother and partner, and hands-on help.
  • “If I needed or wanted a hospital birth, I would not birth in the hospital without a doula. Period. End of story.” (13:14)
• Doula fees vary ($500–$3,000), but their value is in personalized care, continuity, and emotional support.

6. The Loss of Generational Birth Wisdom

• Beth: Notes today’s mothers have little direct experiential knowledge of normal, undisturbed birth.
  • “In the last 15 years, not one person has [seen a cat or dog give birth]. Nobody has seen life.” (24:46)
• Media portrayals and isolation have replaced hands-on knowledge, amplifying fear and uncertainty.

7. Pathways to Empowerment Through Birth

• Ginny’s incremental journey: from elective C-section mindset, to discovering birth centers, to being “disqualified” and experiencing hospital induction/intervention.
• Each birth story shapes confidence and approach—Beth emphasizes the power of evolving knowledge and self-trust.
  • “They evolved from a place of sort of fear and not exactly sure and tentative...and then they're all like holistic health coaches.“ (32:00)
• Notable quote (from a client): “I learned to trust my body and my creator more. I saw my sister have a disassociative experience, and I knew I wanted to be present.” (34:52)

8. “Failure to Progress” and C-section Statistics

• Beth: “Failure to progress” is the most common reason given for C-sections, but she distinguishes medical necessity from systemic overuse.
  • “Statistically…surgical birth should never ever be more than 10 to 15%. In the United States right now, it’s more like a 25 to 30% average.” (45:18)
• Advocates for asking questions, getting real information, and understanding alternatives.

9. Birth as Transformation

• Ginny reflects on how hospital births were something to "endure," while later home births “changed me, and each one changed me in a different way.” (40:00)
• Beth reiterates birth's potential to be a triumph and a “truly transformative experience” (53:14).

10. Moving From Surviving to Thriving

• Encouragement for listeners: Even when birth experiences don't go as planned, each step can lay a better foundation for advocacy and empowerment the next time.
  • Ginny: “Even though it didn't work out like how I had hoped… it did get me started on a better path, on a different path, on a more informed path.” (51:23)
• The power of small moments and supportive words to alter whole life trajectories.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Beth (on generational birth success):
  “For anybody to be here at this moment is tremendous cellular success. Generational success.” (10:11)
• Beth (on support):
  “You need a witness. You need someone who can remember things that you…you're busy. Like a woman having the baby is really busy.” (15:08)
• Ginny (on losing the birth center):
  “They said, you've been disqualified from the birth center. I'm like, could they have said it nicer?” (31:42)
• Beth (on birth plans changing):
  “Birth can go different ways. Right. People who plan a C-section sometimes end up birthing in the car on the way to the hospital by accident.” (39:02)
• Beth (on the mother’s transformation):
  “It has the potential to be a truly transformative experience, right? It's often the most physical thing that many of us women will ever do, and it's kind of an amazing triumph. However, we have our babies.” (53:14)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:42] – Birth as a continuum of health; Beth’s perspective on holistic care
• [03:31] – Free download on birth locations and its purpose
• [08:17] – Ginny’s early approach: elective C-section and the power of a gentle, informed comment
• [10:00] – 10,000 generations of birth support; explanation of the doula’s role
• [13:14] – Beth’s endorsement of doulas in hospital birth
• [21:22] – Historical context: support systems for birthing women
• [24:46] – Loss of animal-husbandry/birth wisdom among modern parents
• [31:42] – Ginny’s experience of being “disqualified” from the birth center and issues of medical communication
• [40:00] – Ginny on the difference between hospital (“endured”) and home (“empowering”) births
• [45:18] – Beth on C-section statistics and reasons; “failure to progress” vs. failure to wait
• [53:14] – Birth as transformation and the power of informed, empowered choices
• [57:25] – The importance of passing on generational wisdom, not trauma

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Resources Mentioned

• Beth’s Free Download: Pros and cons of birth location guide (indigoforest.com)
• Recommended Birth Books: Blog post on books doulas and midwives suggest for natural birth (link via indigoforest.com)
• Past Podcast Episode: “Ask the Midwife” (in-depth on preeclampsia and practical advice)
• Documentary: The Business of Being Born (Ricki Lake)

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Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, humorous, and supportive—never prescriptive or shaming about birth choices. Ginny and Beth validate all birth experiences, focusing on empowerment, learning, and community. The tone is nurturing and realistic, blending wisdom with approachability.

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Next Episode Teaser

This episode ends with a “to be continued,” promising a deeper dive into Ginny’s three home births and the unique lessons from each, as well as further exploration of how birth changes parents and families on the next installment.

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Transcript

[Ginny Urch]

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[Beth Barbo]

Sprite. Obey your thirst.

[Ginny Urch]

Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Ginny Urch. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and my dear, dear friend. You know, I talk about you all the time. I'm like, my midwife says this, my midwife says that, my midwife says this. Beth Barbo, welcome back.

[Beth Barbo]

Thanks for having me again, Jenny. I, I really missed us getting together this way.

[Ginny Urch]

Yes, there are other podcast people can go back and listen to. They're all different topics. Someone left a review recently that I was repetitive and it really affected me deep down in my soul.

But I was like, I really do feel like when people come back on, I personally like it when people come back on because anyone could imagine we, you have an initial conversation with someone, obviously it's different because you and I know each other, but when you have an initial conversation with someone, it's kind of nerve wracking, like, hey, I've never seen you before. Let's have this really deep, deep conversation. So it's like a gift for me to have repeat guests because I'm like, oh, there's a little bit of history there. And I really try hard to like make sure that the topics are different, they've got a new book or, you know, something different. So I feel like all the ones that we've done have been wildly different from like 50 things. I hope, you know, helping your kids through graduation all the way to, you know, dealing with six season, like, like the fall and, and air quality. I mean, it's all been all sorts of different things. So you are eclectic in, in what?

[Beth Barbo]

You know, I, I don't fit very well into the niche. You know, all the social media advisors say find your niche and narrow down and mine is happy is healthy births, healthy lives because I see one leading into the other. If I can help you have your daughters in a healthier way, I know they'll have healthier births, their babies will do better. And so I just see it as a big continuum and I don't know how to only talk about the day the baby comes out or the day you wonder about a cold. You know, to me it all goes together.

[Ginny Urch]

So today, in true fashion of going into different topics, we're going to talk about my birth stories. And my whole goal actually by the time we got onto this path was to make sure that we became friends and I nailed it. So I'm very, very happy about that. In fact, I tell like I had the last kid solely because I was like, I'm losing touch with Beth Mike. But if I have one more, I'm going to cinch the deal here with our friendship. But we're going to talk about birth story and you can kind of just interject whenever you feel like there's a nugget of wisdom for someone that's listening. And also you have some really, really good birth resources. So you currently people want to go get this that you have a free download on birth locations, pros and cons. So just before we kick it off, can you tell people about that, where they can get it?

[Beth Barbo]

Yes. So we're going to include the link, I'm sure in the notes and it's on my website, indigoforest.com and we'll have a link there so that you can get the this free download on. And it's basically a conversational starter. So I'm a home birth midwife and many times people assume that if I'm going to talk about what's the advantage of natural birth, then I'm trying to sell everybody on a home birth. And it couldn't be farther from the truth. And this birth location download is really suitable for pretty much anybody.

Even if somebody else in the family's having a baby, even if you already know you're having planned C sections, even if you're going to free birth, even if you want to have a birth center birth, you don't know the difference between a home birth and a birth center birth, all these different things, because the locations at this time are really affecting people's, well, their options of what the system thinks they're going to offer them. If you see some of the pros and cons of each one, even if you know or your insurance wants to pay for only one or something, it lets you navigate with a lot more power, a lot more empowerment, feeling perhaps a lot less traumatized or just surprised, you know, it's like it's in labor is a difficult time to be surprised by what you thought you were going to get. So I often refer to home birth and we'll talk about it here and I wanted to preface it, so thanks for giving me this chance. Well, we're going to reference home birth because it tends to be the place, at least here in the us where birth is going to be the least disturbed. What we call undisturbed birth. Right?

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah.

[Beth Barbo]

And it's not always true. You have to ask lots of questions of your providers, no matter what setting you plan to be in or what kind of person you want to hire. We can always talk about the difference between certified nurse midwives and home birth midwives and obs. But this is not to say that everybody has to have a home birth to have a good birth or everybody has to have an unmedicated birth to have a great birth. I've helped people use medications. I think epidurals can be amazing. They can be a blessing. On the other hand, they're not without their costs. There are side effects to the baby and the mom and they're just, they're not great for 80% of all the women in the world just because they're scared and alone and uninformed. Right. So I want to set that stage because there's people listening right now who had births that weren't comfortable or were really turbulent or they feel traumatic or it went great and they think everyone should do it their way. And I want to just be respectful of all those different kinds of births. Everyone listening your birth story. Everyone listening has been to at least one birth because we've said it before, they've all been bored. Right. So that's my preamble. And so by talking about your birth, I think it gives us a chance to. Well, to look at that bigger picture through a very personal lens. And we don't often get to hear your stories on this beautiful podcast. And I'm really honored that we get to do that together right now.

[Ginny Urch]

Oh, it's so fun. Okay. I think this will end up being a two parter because you do have a birth course coming. And so I'm sure we'll be able to. I mean, you know, there's a lot of stories here, so it'll probably be like a little bit of a to be continued. But people should check out your newsletter as well, which I'll. I'll put the link in the show notes. But you constantly are putting out information for healthy births and healthy lives. It just is a very holistic helping your family because you've been involved, you've had this bird's eye view as well, as is really a really in person view of people's families through the years because you have these mothers who have three, four, five, six children and then you, you're seeing the older ones grow up and you have your own kids and so there's just a lot of wisdom there, and people will find that in the newsletter and on your website. So sticking with this concept of location, I think this is actually a phenomenal conversation starter in. In terms of my story. So my story is that. And you can kind of jump in if you. This is what people. You've heard similar stories before, but I kind of came to the table with not a lot of information, and I was in a group of friends, and we were sort of the last ones to have kids, so I was a little reluctant. I was a little nervous. I've told you before that my mom says that having a baby is like pulling a cabbage patch out of your nostril. So, I mean, that was sort of the mantra growing up. So I was kind of like, don't know if I really want to do that. So at this sort of tail end of this, you know, a group of friends, they all had kids, and we were kind of, like, left out. So I was like, okay, well, now must be the time. And my closest friend at the time had had a back injury in her teen years from a car accident. And so she was having an elective C section because of the back injury issues. I guess they, you know, I don't know what the conversation was there, but she was this type of person that. And still is like, she's a great person. Really likes for things to be kind of, like, organized and planned out. And so she came to me and she said, this elective C section is fantastic. She's like, you know, especially for someone who likes things planned out, right? She's like, you pick your day, you go in, you have this little drink, and in 45 minutes, they give you the shot. And in 45 minutes, they hand you your clean baby, you know? And I was like, oh, yeah. So she was like, you should just ask your ob. Like, can I just have a C section?

You're, like, mortified. This is where I was at. And I was, you know, 26. I don't think I was super young. You know, I'm like, 26. I had enough time to learn things. But. So, anyway, I happen to be, as stories often go, with my brother. And we have this mutual friend who was and is a doula. And. And really, she does a lot of work with women and babies and wonderful work, even to this day. And I just was sitting with them, my brother, and. And this friend of ours from high school, and I was like, yeah, I just, you know, my friend had a C section. I'm just gonna do the C section. You know, it's 45 minutes. That's over, you know, and she said this. And I felt like it was actually really kind. She was very gracious. She said, you know, there are some pros to the baby coming through the birth canal. I was like, oh, tell me more. I didn't know.

[Beth Barbo]

That's a beautiful way to say it.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah, isn't that beautiful? It wasn't shaming. It wasn't like, you idiot. You know, how. How do you know nothing? And that was a spark. I did end up reading like the Ina May Gaskin books. I. I just didn't know. And I Framing it that way, which was like, obviously I care about my baby, so I just thought it was like an either or didn't really matter. And then I started to. She. I think she gave one example that it squeezes their lungs and helps get gunk out. I don't know that. Like, I'm not giving the exact. What's happening, but that was the one example that she gave. And that took me down a path of starting to think about it more.

[Beth Barbo]

I. I was wondering. I just wanted to make sure. Sometimes people don't know what a doula is. It's a pretty common word right now. But if I can back up just to make sure everybody's on the same page.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah.

[Beth Barbo]

You know, across time, there's about this said that there's 10,000 generations of successfully birthing women behind every single person listening to this podcast.

[Ginny Urch]

Right.

[Beth Barbo]

So in other words, there are 10,000 generations behind you and me that and everyone else that they birthed the baby that lived long enough to have a baby that lived long. So there's an unbroken line of 10,000 women. For anybody to be here at this moment is tremendous cellular success. Generational success. You know, even if the last couple generations were C section is still a lot of success. So all those women often were birthing with the help of somebody who'd done a few more births than they had. You know, as an experienced mom, auntie, sister, and adulla has kind of been taken off of that since birth is happening more in medical settings. It's someone who is that traditional support for both the mother and her husband or her partner, her friend, you know, whoever, and is experienced in birth. They're not making any medical decisions, but they are a medical advocate. They are a labor support. They have a lot of tricks up their sleeve to help people. Oh, did you try this position? Or maybe this would help solve this? Or let me get food for you, dad. Or different things. So their job is not to get in between. Their job is to help support the couple because they will actually find themselves in a stronger relationship and finding their babies easier to care for the study show if they've had their needs met together. So I just wanted to back up and make sure we had everybody with us, even though it's a very common word now, But I was being a doula back in the 80s when I was an apprentice midwife for people who needed home, they needed or wanted a hospital birth, but they wanted someone along to help them out with questions. And at the time, there was no word doula. I just went as their sister. That was the only way to get in.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah, I'm glad you're talking about it, though, because I do remember when I first heard about it. And I think as a woman, you jet. You feel that. And especially if you don't have, like, you know, a large community of sisters or you don't have aunties or you don't have cousins that have already gone before you and are going to come around and kind of guide you through it as a woman, your soul is sort of drawn to that. And I remember feeling that my soul was drawn to the doula. But maybe it was 800 doll, maybe it was 1400 dollars or, you know, I don't know how much it costs, but it was like a little bit of a shock because you don't totally know about it, but you're really drawn to it. And then you're like, oh, the cost. So can you talk about the benefits of, you know, if someone's starting to think through that and you know it to your point, it's like the doula, no matter what location you're in, whether talking about location, whether you're in a birth center, whether you're in a hospital, whether you're at home, the doula is going to. I don't know if enhance is the right word, but like.

Settle maybe, or. Or just be a really key part in that birth story.

[Beth Barbo]

The topic of doula at this point in the world of maternity care, like, like midwives and doulas and people who, who work with birth a lot, childbirth educators. It's a little bit of a hot topic.

[Ginny Urch]

I like hot topics.

[Beth Barbo]

You do? You're very brave.

[Ginny Urch]

Make it juicy, Beth.

[Beth Barbo]

Well, I personally, if I needed or wanted a hospital birth, I would not birth in the hospital without a doula, period. End of the story. I don't care what it costs, and it could cost a pretty penny. And you're likely to pay for good people. It doesn't mean that the higher price tag automatically gets you a great person. I honestly this is a little bit painful for me to say, but 10 years ago I could have unequivocally said the doulas are this and the home birth midwives are that and you want this and that. And the truth is there are really brilliant devoted care providers in all categories. Obs too, right? Midwives, nurse midwives in the hospital, direct entry or professional. Certified professional midwives at home doulas who cross all these lines. I recently did a podcast for Intentional Birth where they were discussing like the work of doulas across these different settings. Like how do you BS doula at home with a homeless midwife? And so I would advocate that people actually need to be incredibly savvy consumers and ask a lot of questions about other doula of their care provider no matter what. So a doula might cost depending on where you are. You might find a student midwife for $500 and you might find a professional doula in a much more urban setting for I don't know, 3,000 maybe. I know my favorite doulas that I like to refer people to are charging in the neighborhood of 1800 2000. And it involves several prenatal appointments. It involves being with them during the labor and the birth a few hours after. Usually if there's interventions, if there's a C section, if there's epidurals, whatever has to happen, being with you and helping you navigate it and then coming to your house at least once or twice with some phone calls also afterwards. In other words, they're your continuum of care that most people aren't getting. To be honest, as a home birth midwife, I was at first put out by people who thought they needed a doula because I was like I do labor coaching. What's our job? But more and more home birth midwives are wanting to rely on it appears on the doulas for I would say the hands on part. I don't know that I am all about that. I mean home birth motives are often stretched thin. There's only so many hours in the day, exhaustion different. You know we in my older, in my later years of midwifeing, I wasn't going to push in somebody's hips for 12 hours. Right. Like I had to, yeah, mars, you know, my take care of my margins of energy. But also doulas are professionals that deserve tremendous respect and we shouldn't be just shoveling off so called the easy work or the early work or whatever. Like, I think it needs to be a team. So anyway, I. The reason I wouldn't birth in the hospital without a doula or someone with us is because you need a witness. You need someone who can remember things that you. You're busy. Like a woman having the baby is really busy. She's not in the thinking part of her brain. And I usually. Her partner. You're laughing. Her partner, the husband, the dad. They're also becoming a parrot. They're also seeing their loved one having a physical experience. They're also maybe intimidated by that medical setting and all that power, authority kind of behavior. So they also need support in their experience. Like, hey, you know, I know the head's coming out, it's a little purple. Remember how we discussed that's normal? We're good. Take a breath, honey. I only say honey because I'm old, but most of us would not say honey to the man, you know? But you're getting the point, right? Like support for both. Anyway, run on. Sorry, I go on and on.

[Ginny Urch]

You don't go on and on. I think this is really important information. It kind of reminds me of how, you know, I read. I can't remember what it was called. It was like the name river was in the title. It was some book that. It's like a fiction book that came out recently. And it's not called the Midwife. It's like something else for maybe it's called Frozen river. And it was about. It was about a midwife. Like the main character is a midwife. And you. When you really think back on historically what this would have been like, where most people would have been birthing at home, there never would have been one person. There would have been, you know, it may be the middle of the night, but like there's going to be a sister. Like there was. It was common that like an aunt would be there or a friend or in these small village type settings that the care of the mother did not land solely on the shoulders of one person. And so like you said, if it's a team. Yeah, it's helpful. 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[Beth Barbo]

I I forgot. You reminded me of something. I used to teach in classes all the time. But this, it was probably in the 80s.

I remember from the history books. Like when somebody was with child, somebody else would come from far away. Like however long it took, right. Either their mom, their sister, their aunt, whoever didn't have little ones at home, they would come to their house and they would be there for several months. Like because they had to either put in the garden or put up the garden in the fall to make sure that everything was okay for the rest of the year. In other words, there wasn't just a checking out. Right. Like you had to have someone else around because what were you going to do?

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah. And so in this day and age, I think when we're so isolated and often don't have that extended family situation, a doula is just like another person on your beautiful birth team. So, okay, so their other job is.

[Beth Barbo]

Education, by the way, which, which comes to your point about saying like, you know, could I just plan the C section? And I asked, I was with somebody the other day and I she said why?

[Ginny Urch]

Oh, I love that you brought that up. Because that's what this woman, she wasn't my doula, but she sure did provide me beautiful education and very Very simply and very non. Shamefully.

[Beth Barbo]

She changed the course of your entire life, Jim.

[Ginny Urch]

She sure did.

[Beth Barbo]

That one statement like, we should never. I guess what a lesson, right? To. To know that our drop counts. Right.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah.

[Beth Barbo]

In terms of her. Her change changed what kind of births you had. It may have changed how many children you had.

[Ginny Urch]

It totally did.

[Beth Barbo]

It changed you and my relationship. It changes whether or not we would have this conversation in public for others to learn from.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah.

[Beth Barbo]

It's so impactful and.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah. And she could have just as easily not said anything because it's awkward. It's awkward to say things, but she did.

[Beth Barbo]

But I think that you. You bring up a point that is often glossed over. Like, there seems to be two camps about birth. One is, get your epidural in the parking lot. What's the point? Don't be a hero. There's that line.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah.

[Beth Barbo]

And then there's like, all things natural. Suffer through the brambles. Who care. You know, like. Yeah, but where's the place in the middle where we can talk about women are scared.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah.

[Beth Barbo]

Women, they don't have information. So I know that I keep going down another line, but the part about women being scared is that I think this is Beth opinion. I'm pulling it from here. Right. I think it's in large part because women have very few experiences with birth.

[Ginny Urch]

Right.

[Beth Barbo]

In the tapestry of our lives today, we have a lot of experience with technology and phones and instant things and iPhone. Time. Ding, ding, ding. It's time to do stuff. But we don't have a lot of, like, how long does it take to have a contraction if you're not coming back from the commercial? Right. You know, like, I had somebody recently say, my friend's birth was 12 hours long for her first birth. And I was very kind, but I poked her on. Like, I later said, I did this on purpose to you. I said, wow, I'm glad it was so short.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah.

[Beth Barbo]

And she panicked. She goes, what do you mean? And I said, did you know birth can be all kinds of lengths and be normal? Like you. Like, we have to normalize it. So actually, one of the pictures I used to talk about normal birth a lot I got from your front porch. Do you know that?

[Ginny Urch]

No.

[Beth Barbo]

I came to see you one time and you weren't there, but your cat was there in the blue tub with her litter of kittens, the beautiful calico cat a few years ago.

[Ginny Urch]

And she was, okay, listen, nobody come at me because then people are going to be like, your cats are killing birds. This was a Long time ago.

[Beth Barbo]

They were not killing birds. We actually had lots of friends asking for barn cats to keep the mice out. But the, the cat was nursing, you know, she was feeding just a few kittens, three, four kittens. And she was purring and it was like an oxytocin, like, boom. You know, And I, I actually taped the purring, like, hi, this is what. Oxytocin, the love hormone, the hormone that makes labor happen. The mommy hormone, the B.O. sounding hormone. This is what it feels like is to hear it. When I started teaching classes in the 80s, I could ask people, how many of you have seen a cat or dog born or live on, you know, or been around your grandma's farm or something. And I would say without exception, everyone would raise their hand. In the last 15 years, not one person has. Nobody has seen life. The, you know, like one. I was like, how does a cat act when they're born? Trying to help people understand normal postpartum behavior. Mammal wise, anyway. And they're like, I don't know. No idea. And it's very. And it shows, right? Because we take our babies to the store at two days old instead of acting like a mama cat, which we can discuss later. So I just, I want to go back to. I think people are, People are pretty scared. And people will often tell my clients who are having home births, gosh, I wish, I wish I was that brave. And my home birth clients are often saying to them, actually takes a lot more bravery for me to go into the medical system. I feel much more at home in my home for a normal biological process. But it's really. I was actually thinking about this relationship to play. By the way, remember, you're like, you're. The only way that you're repetitive in what you talk about is because you are so on message, which is the well being of children. And there's a lot to be said in that. And the truth is everybody will hear it differently. Not everybody hears every podcast or I've gone back and listened to ones that I thought I listened to every word and it sounded completely different. I went back to the ones that you and I did to just see, make sure I didn't duplicate topics. And I didn't remember saying half of what we talked about.

Anyway. I think if we talk about undisturbed play, there are all these benefits of undisturbed play that are not the same as playing in the basement under fluorescent lights with tidy blocks. That's good. There's something there, but it's not the same as digging in the dirt.

[Ginny Urch]

Right.

[Beth Barbo]

Which is what you talk about all day long, top to bottom. Well, birth is a normal biological process. We are humans, we are mammals, and there is a hormonal process. And if we can make room for undisturbed birth, there are also unexpected gifts of that. Just like with the play and it's. Other people didn't need to use to know that we had to rediscover the benefits of play in modern times. Let's talk about the benefits of undisturbed birth. Even if you need to try and do it in a medical setting, even if you need to try and do it in a birth center, whatever. Even if you just need to understand what your baby expects during your C section, that you medically need for something because it will change their experience and your bonding and your parenting. Understanding undisturbed empowers people to get a lot more out of their life and their parenting is what I would offer. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah, there's a lot there. Really helpful. So you use this phrase no idea. And I. And I think that is. That's sort of this. The spot that I was in which was like a no idea. I have no idea. I was like, oh, I'll just. I'll just pick the C section. That sounds great. So. So the story, my own personal story, was like, I had no idea. And then when this precious friend of mine sparked in me to look into different options, I started to. And I. And I realized that there were a lot of things that mattered that I didn't know about, I wasn't aware of. I wanted to ask you if you find that this is common, that women have no idea. And by no idea, I mean they have no idea about. I mean, I felt like I had no idea about a lot of things.

[Beth Barbo]

I have found that most people who came to me to be their primary birth attendant and I'm a home birth midwife, so they were doing it in that setting, were usually dumbstruck about how capable their bodies were, how durable their baby was, how many options we had to handle emergencies, how many things we could do to avoid emergencies, how many things they could actively do to avoid emergencies.

One of my favorite stories. I don't know if this is the right spot for it, but I mean, before we're done, Jenny, I want to throw the question back to you as well. What did you want that was different? Right.

[Ginny Urch]

Well, right. And I didn't come to you until kid number three. But I think when I was exposed to, oh, there are some benefits of the baby going through the birth canal. That's when I was like, oh, you know, well, maybe I should look into that a little bit more. And so I went from the situation of. Of hospital, then to. And talking about location. You've got this free download on birth locations to trying for the. What's it called? Like, a birth center. We went and toured one, right. So it's like I changed my care to. I don't know if I even changed my care to the midwife. I don't remember that part. I just know that I. Then I tried to switch to the birth center because they had the big tubs and the bigger rooms. And then, you know, I started to learn about that kind of thing. There's beds in there. But my story is that I got disqualified.

[Beth Barbo]

Right, because you.

[Ginny Urch]

Yes, yeah, because. And I just feel like that was such mean wording.

You know, I don't know. You know, and I think that's maybe such a small thing, but really, I did feel like that was mean. Like, why couldn't they have said it better? You know, you're kind of like, at the end of your pregnancy. So I had, like. I was teetering on the edge of preeclampsia. And this is something that you and I dealt with when I ended up coming to have care with you, starting with our third child. But, you know, I was teetering on the edge. Like, my blood pressure was fine, but I had protein in my urine. And, you know, so it was being monitored. And you're like, at the end of your pregnancy, to your point earlier, it's like you're kind of freaked out. It's the first baby, and you're, you know, you're uncomfortable. And I had to collect my pee in this big yellow jug for a whole weekend. So I was like, that's. I mean, that's odd and awkward. And then I had to take in my jug of pee. I mean, you already, like, are kind of feeling violated. This feels kind of violated. And then I took it in, and then my numbers were, like, astronomically high of how much protein was in my urine. And they said, you've been disqualified from the birth center. I'm like, could they have said it nicer?

[Beth Barbo]

They could have said it nicer. But also what you're describing is the quintessential problem I have with most maternity care at this time is that they did not help you understand what was going on.

[Ginny Urch]

Well, they said they didn't know what preeclampsia came from. So they said, you know, we don't know.

[Beth Barbo]

And yeah, but, but there's ways to be like, hey, if we collect all your urine, what we can do is we can average and get an average of what's going on. We're looking for this kind of concentrate because it tells us this about how things are functioning. The reason we care is if it's really high, it could have these effects on the baby. So our options are going to be we're looking for this and this and this. I know it's a total pain and it's kind of embarrassing to be hauling the jug around, but just keep it in the fridge. It's opaque so no one has to look in. And we're not going to tell if you won't. Haha. You know, it could have been you. You guys could have been a team about it. And that's frankly why I've spent a long time working on this birth program. Because there's lots of great, you know, there's like birth courses out there, but there's not. Like, I don't know how to be a midwife to a lot of people. Right? Like, this is a bigger thing. It's like, how do we help people get empowered and become like, I'll tell you, Jenny, most of my clients who've been with me through multiple babies have had an experience similar to you where they evolved from a place of sort of fear and not exactly sure and tentative and like, gosh, home births cost money and your insurance doesn't usually pay for it and all that stuff. And then they're all like, home. They're like holistic health coaches. They started their own business. I had one mom who ended up with a medical birth because for all reasons that she wanted and were important and good idea. And she sent me a letter later that said, I am so empowered by this birth and all the stuff that we did together that I'm going back to school to be a lawyer for women's issues. I'm going to do this and this and this. I'm making these changes in my personal life. And she still, I'll tell you, she texted me yesterday. Her kid is 25 years old. We're still in touch because her birth, which by the way, was pretty medical, it's like, I'll definitely put her into my. I'm gonna start a thing next year called Storytime on my Instagram reel because everybody's like, tell the stories. And I'm far enough away, I think that I can tell them without violating people's personal hip hop, you know what I mean? Because there's some very funny stories out there. But anyway, hers is one of them. And most of the people who've been with me for a few babies have not just had a different birth. They've been able to take. This is what I think birth can be. This is. What's missing is like, they. What they get from birth launches them into more of themselves. A different kind of parenting. They feel less like. It's less like stepping off a cliff into the first three days of parenting. One of this women, she responded to me recently from our newsletters. I asked people what they like, why did a natural birth. What was it valuable to them? And this woman said. What did she say? It was so amazing.

Well, she's proud and confident. I learned to trust my body and my creator more.

I saw my sister have a disassociative experience, and I knew I wanted to be present.

The oxytocin is incredible, but there's these people. Oh. I immediately felt more like myself. When my daughter was born from induction, I felt exhausted. And when my son was born at a birth center unmedicated, I felt like superwoman.

Right. Like, yeah. So, I mean, you gave me a poster after your first birth. Your number, Carly. And it. And it said, you know, birth with a birth, with doctors, I think you said, or medical birth and then home birth. And it was like the first time you were with your baby and it was completely different energy.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah, well, yeah. I mean. And you use the word empowering. So I ended up getting disqualified from the birth center, which is tr. I mean, traumatic. I don't know. That's probably an exaggeration. But it's. It's an interesting. It's the wrong word to use, but it. It is an interesting situation to be in where you're about to have this really big experience and a first experience of bringing a child into the world. And a week before you think that's going to happen, the whole situation changes. So instead of. I mean, that was like a really big shift, which is. And I kind of had fallen in love with it, right. Because this doula had told me about it. And then I thought, okay, that now this is really important. And I had come up with a birth plan and. And I didn't know, like, that I was going to end up with this pre eclampsia and be disqualified. So it's just a really big hiccup, I guess it could be said that way, of this massive change of plan. So then I ended up in the hospital and they had to induce because it was like, my numbers were too high. And then, you know, I'm with someone I don't know. And the doctor changed, I think, two or three times within this period. And they had all sorts of interventions. Like, they were like, we're gonna try this Foley ball. We're gonna try. I'm like, I'd never even heard of any of that stuff.

[Beth Barbo]

So all of a sudden it went from along either.

[Ginny Urch]

What was it? I missed it.

[Beth Barbo]

No one slowed down to bring you along.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah. Just like it was the middle of the night. Like, I think I had to go in at 9pm and. Or 7pm it was like I went in in the evening on a Monday. And it was just all of a sudden, like. And you waiting for a while. Right. And then you get admitted, and then it says, this person's going to do this to you and this person's going to do that to you, and then they're going to leave and someone else is going to come in and take up where the other person left off. And, like, the continue talking about the continuum of care.

You're just. It's the opposite of empowerment.

[Beth Barbo]

Yeah. And that's where someone, like a doula or an experience. Somebody's had babies, you know, not. Not like your friend who was planning her C sections. Right. She might not have been the best. She's a good friend, but she might not have been the best person to help you not have a C section. Right. Like, you need to make sure the person who's advising you has done what you want to do or at least educated themselves around it. So that's the kind of thing where a doula can be, oh, like here, do you want to know what a Foley is? Here. These are some questions you could ask to get more information, you know, so you're more on the thing. And. And it is. So you're less alone. Right. Because it. Like husbands.

[Ginny Urch]

You don't know what that is. I mean, I. I had then read all those Ina Mae Gaskin books. None of them talk about the Foley bulb. So I was like, I don't even know what this is. It's 11:00pm you know, I. And as. On a personal level, I had never been in the hospital, so I had been one time when my youngest brother was born, I got. We got to go visit. And I do remember that because I'm five and a half years older, so I got to go to the hospital. We went one time and got to hold him. And it was a really big deal because they were like, don't drop them there's concrete floors. It was like that, you know, and. And that's it. That's the only time in my entire life I'd been in the hospital. And then all of a sudden. Yeah. You're thrown into this new environment where people are like, well, we're going to try this and we're going to try that, and. And you don't know what it is.

[Beth Barbo]

So you hadn't had a tour because you didn't plan to birth there.

[Ginny Urch]

Right, Right. And it was just like a regular hospital thing. So.

[Beth Barbo]

So that's where, like, you know, sort of like, you. You were kind of attached to the midwives at the birth center, or at least the tub, or at least what.

[Ginny Urch]

That'S in the rooms. Yeah.

[Beth Barbo]

You know, you had familiarity with that. So that is one of the other advantages of a doula, because we don't know how birth will go. Birth can go different ways. Right. People who plan a C section sometimes end up birthing in the car on the way the hospital by accident, you know, or people who plan a home birth. Well, you know, there's times it doesn't always work out that way, so it's important to be able to respond. And that's why a good doula usually can move between these settings. Right. And be your support at home. If you need to transfer to the hospital can go with you. Sometimes the midwives do, too, but increasingly it's more a doula or. Or in this case, like, you had to change care providers and settings and so that you had somebody who was sort of like, with you on the journey. Right. So that it wasn't just you and Josh trying to, like, being alone together and newbies together and scared together and, you know, like, hey, this part's normal. Like, oh, this part's gonna be a wait. So let's think of something, you know, like, you should get some sleep now because the work is going to be tomorrow. Or I. I don't know.

[Ginny Urch]

It's like such a big deal that it's so wild to kind of do it blind. That's how it was. It was like you just have no. You don't know what's coming. And so I guess when you talked earlier about this evolution to empowerment, and we'll talk about this in the next episode when your birth course is live, where I'm gonna go through the birth stories. I got five of them, so we're gonna go through from start to finish. But the end story is that the births at home did change me, and each one changed me. In a different way. Whereas the birth in the hospital did not. I mean they were like endured. I, you know, that's how I feel about them. I endured them. I think the baby endured them. Thankfully, we came home, you know, relatively healthy though there are some different health, I think ramifications from the different situations. But you know, it was an endurance experience rather than an empowering one.

[Beth Barbo]

I think you said it all.

[Ginny Urch]

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Okay, so birth number one. None of the things worked and they called it failure to progress. There's a lot of failures here. I disqualified Failure to progress.

[Beth Barbo]

So I you're not the only person with this experience. It's pretty common for people who end up with C sections. The the failure to progress I actually have a whole discussion about you know what this in my course right during the Program. The failure to progress part is probably the most common reason given for a C section or a quote, emergency C section for. People are often saying that for their stories, for all those people that that's part of your story. I want to be very respectful about it. It could easily be true. It matters what they think, what you think out there. Also, I'm going to say something about the stats, though I'm not saying this about any individual person. I'm not trying to take away from any individual experience. I have clients for whom I know the C section was indeed an emergency and it did indeed mean that the mother and baby came through much safer. So I'm not negating that. However, statistically, people need to know. Obstetricians are experts in surgical bursts. Obstetricians are surgical specialties. Obstetricians for the most part, although they have years and years and years of training, they owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans. Usually. They've never been obligated in their entire career of caring for women, having babies. To sit with a woman from the beginning to the end of her labor to understand normal labor patterns. Patterns. Midwives are typically experts in normal birth, which means also recognizing when it's not and the wide range that can. The wide range of normal, of what normal can be, instead of just for instance, a chart of like, you should dilate this fast per hour.

[Ginny Urch]

Right?

[Beth Barbo]

Because bodies are not like machines. And there's different, there's. There's sort of like holistic, you know, woman centered, body centered ways. So look at how birth can evolve or, you know, birth can proceed. And then there's like what we call the technocratic models, which is sort of applying, you know, Henry Ford's factory plan to it. Right. And so describing a factory plan experience. But, but bodies don't always respond easily to that unless they're already ripe and ready to go. So, yeah, I don't remember where I was going with this except that one of my big lines is that you.

[Ginny Urch]

Were talking about statistics.

[Beth Barbo]

The statistics. Failure to progress. It's the most common reason it's usually given. And honestly the midwives call it usually failure to wait because it's most often for other reasons than babies can't get out of that vagina. The World Health Organization continues to say if they have for many, many years, that the rate of cesarean section across all people, no matter how high a risk of population you deal with, surgical birth should never ever be more than 10 to 15%.

[Ginny Urch]

Oh, wow.

[Beth Barbo]

So in the United States right now, it's more like a 25 to 30% average.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah.

[Beth Barbo]

I have a lactation consultant who's reached out to me from a Midwest state and told me that in her town the C section rate is 75%. And her lactation, her lactation center is dealing with levels of problems in babies. Were problems that she said we would normally have one of these at a time. You know, in our whole practice of five people, she goes, now we have usually 10 at a time, 12 at a time. And she goes, I feel like no one's raising the white flag in other countries. I mean, I've had people consult with me. One mom is an American woman who's married to someone in Brazil. She had a Brazil. She was having a. Like a. I don't know. She'd had a number of babies. And she consulted with me once right before her birth. She said I have to be so strategic because pretty much 90 something percent of everybody here gets C sections. It's only if you like. It's only if you show up and they can't do it to you fast enough. That's the only thing.

[Ginny Urch]

The baby's already coming out. Yeah.

[Beth Barbo]

So these are really. There's a lot of side effects of having surgical births. If it's really necessary, you don't worry about it and you keep going. But there's a lot that can be done before you are faced with that. Exact why in the road. Not having a C section, by the way, does not begin when the doctors are all standing around your bed in their white coats and their arms crossed saying, we really, this is it. We can't go any further. We need to do this. That's not usually the time that you have a lot of power to fight back or even that it's appropriate right at that moment. It's often the best choice at that moment. Not having a surgical birth, which can be done without fear and can be done with a lot of support. And a lot of people describe it with incredible joy and empowerment and fun. And I've had women tell me they'd rather have have a baby every month in their period. It's so much easier. And I know people don't.

[Ginny Urch]

My experience, but great. That's great. Good for them.

[Beth Barbo]

But no one ever told you that some people do.

[Ginny Urch]

Right, Right.

[Beth Barbo]

You know, and so I just, I want people to have more support, more information, so they just get to navigate and not be sideswiped like you did and feel like everything that they said you was a failure would have. You know, they didn't Offer you choices. They didn't offer you information. Like, the first thing we did was like, okay, what do we do to not get into the preeclampic situation? We worked on that for a month.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah. And sometimes it would tip. It would be tippy, it would start to tip over. And then it was like, okay, well, what can we do to bring it back? And the doctors had told me, we do not know what causes this. And so there's nothing that we can do for you. Just manage your symptoms, which were swelling. Like, my hands would swell, my feet would swell. So they were like, put your feet up and eat watermelon. And you know, and that was pretty much the extent of it. And so that was really a miraculous thing for me when. When we met and you were like, oh, yeah, well, here's what's going on with that and here's some things you could try. And we were able to keep that from. From happening. Even though it would start to tip in, we were, we were able to pull it back. You know, I will say that even though my locations didn't end up being ideal for the first two births, what happened was, is that okay, first of all, our oldest. Then they tried to break my water. I think I've told you this. And they. The lady was like, he came out with all these scabs on his head. So she was like picking his head. I'm like, I didn't even know that was a thing. So, like, that's kind of wild to me.

[Beth Barbo]

Did they put an internal lead in? Did they at some point say, we aren't getting his heartbeat very good. So we'd like to just put a little lead in his head maybe.

[Ginny Urch]

I don't know if it was actually a bunch of them. I feel like they were trying to break the water and then instead maybe the water was already broken or I don't know what was going on. He came out with like a lot of scabs on his head.

[Beth Barbo]

Yeah. There's two ways that that happens usually.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah. So just kind of a, you know, an odd. So I'm gonna see.

[Beth Barbo]

I want to help everybody. Like, I know that we're gonna wind up soon, and I want to midwife who's everyone who's listening for a second because there's a lot of stories out there like yours, and there's a lot of stories of people who just maybe they even thought they had great home birth midwives and their experience wasn't as what they wanted or, you know, there's a lot of good and Also difficult stories out there. So I'm going to be the midwife. People have listened to me before. I'd like everyone to take a deep breath. Like, right now, you. I'm doing it, too. You can do it, too. I want everyone to take a deep breath and to know that everyone's doing the best that they can. And I want to make sure that we're in that more positive spot. We know that people are also on. There are some people who haven't listened to you very much. And they're like, but wait, what did she do for Pre E? That's what I have. They should go back and listen to the Ask the Midwife episode, which I'm pretty sure we got into that one in detail. It's a really good one. And. And otherwise they should stay tuned and sign up for the birth location and get more information. But, yeah, you know, obviously mothers and babies are very durable. We're really glad that we have care that's available. And also, we're not being weird by asking for more support, more information, more respect for mother and baby. That's a huge one. I want to really talk about that next time because one of the biggest differences is acknowledging the baby's experience.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah, that would be a really good topic. That's why I said I think that birth can extend over. It might extend over a couple different episodes here. I wanted to say that even though I got disqualified from the birth center and even though I had failure to progress and had the cesarean section and then ended up having a second cesarean section, that was an interesting story, too, because I tried to do a VBAC for baby number two, and I ended up at the wrong hospital. They, like, didn't spell out. You know, it's like they have the hospital groups and they were like, you're at the wrong location to try for this V back. So anyway, I. I mean, I guess I did. I was able to try for it anyways. I got a second failure to progress situation. But there's a couple things, I think in seeking out.

In seeking out an ideal location and in seeking out more information, it did get me started on a. On a better path, on a different path, on a more informed path. So even though it didn't work out like how I had hoped it would, I do feel like it changed me and was very helpful in setting a foundation at looking at things different. Like, I think I. I watched the documentary, the Ricki Lake one, the Business of Being Born. Anyway, I was exposed to information that I hadn't been before. And also, I don't think I would have ever ended up in your office had I not had those two cesarean sections, because then I felt that the only option I had at that point. Now I think that things have maybe changed. But at that point, the hospital would not allow me to try for a vaginal birth after cesarean for the third kid. And I didn't want to limit my family size due to number of cesarean sections. Some people have six, you know, but some people have two, and they have too much scar tissue, and they're recommended to not have anymore. And so that is really what brought me to you. And that was. That's life changing. So I guess it's just a message of hope. There's a verse that I have been clinging to this year that says that in our heart, we plan our course, but the Lord determines our steps. And I just think that's such a beautiful one, because what I had planned my course, right? My course was cesarean section. And then my course changed because I wanted to try the birth center. And then my course changed because I was disqualified. And then I tried for a B vac and it didn't work, and I was in the wrong hospital. And then I ended up with you. And here we sit. So, you know, I think that there's a lot of good things that can happen no matter how it goes. And a lot of good that comes out of the searching and the learning.

[Beth Barbo]

Well, I think you discovered along the way. I mean, you. You've always. You're a tenacious person. You love to learn. You're willing to try new things. You, you know, that that served you well. It serves you well on a thousand hours. It serves you well in your birth and in your life. And I think that however people birth and whatever location, birth is a miracle. It is a. Has the potential to be a truly transformative experience, right? It's often the most physical thing that many of us women will ever do, and it's kind of an amazing triumph. However, we have our babies, and so I think that when people have a chance to consider. Look outside the box, right? Maybe even a lot of times people say they assume they're ob, has their best interests at heart. They know everything. And that way, at least they'll, quote, be safe, and they'll see how the first one goes, and then they'll see if they want to change location or do anything really brave like midwives or go into a different space. And honestly, a lot of the people who come to me have not been first time moms. A lot of them are people who've had like you two or three. I had a mom come to me. She was on baby. I don't want to say the wrong thing. I know her so well. So it's really poor. I can't remember exactly. It was either baby four. I think it was her fourth. She was in the middle of her fourth pregnancy and she had had three. And she had three babies, all born by C section under five.

[Ginny Urch]

Bless you for taking us on. Well, I just want to say that because I. My babies are really close too. I mean, they were 15 months apart and I was pregnant again in like a half split second.

[Beth Barbo]

You came in tandem. Like at our first appointment, you were tandem nursing two babies, you know, so they were close together. Now, not every home birth midwife would take somebody who's had two. Some hospitals will, some won't. Like, so you're, you know, everybody's having their own story right now, and it's very different. You have to ask a lot of questions. But.

Anyway.

[Ginny Urch]

Yeah, well, I just was saying bless you because you took on, and we've talked about it since, like cases that maybe other people wouldn't have. And it really did change the trajectory of my life. But it started with a small seed. It smart. It started with a conversation with Kate and. And she was so gracious enough to point me in a different direction. And then the whole thing becomes a journey. And so I'm excited. I think throughout 2026 here, we're gonna have some different birth conversations. And I'm in the spot now, Beth, which you can probably relate, where it's like, I do have a dear friend that's pregnant, but for the most part, it's like my friends are having their grandkids, you know, so, yeah, so I went to my first grandkid shower. It was like my friend's daughter was. Is having a baby.

[Beth Barbo]

Old? How does that work?

[Ginny Urch]

You know, I am. I am that old. And. And it was really special. And, you know, it's so interesting, Beth, like, in that situation, I felt like, gosh, I've got a lot of wisdom to pass on. Like, we were talking about work and being home. We talked about that first 40 days. I told her about that first 40 days book. And there's a book called I'm Being There. It's about motherhood in the first three years. And I was like, wow. It was like a full circle moment for me from going. From having no idea. Yeah, I'm just going to plan the C section to being like, oh, I kind of think I have a wealth of knowledge that I've gotten from other people that now I have the ability to pass on. And you had said this question kind of toward the middle, but you said, what. What are they getting from birth? Like talking about the mother. And it's almost like an abrasive question or an odd question, because I think most people will be like, well, it's not about the mother, it's about the baby. But you say like, the mother is born and the father is born. And there's something really sacred and important about that. And that's what I didn't realize then, that that is one of the biggest things that home birth did for me, is that it taught me lessons that I don't think I could have learned other ways and different lessons for each kid. And that's what we're going to get into. Once your birth program is live, we're going to go through the three home births and talk about. Because I'd learned three distinct lessons from each birthday birth. And they're really big lessons that have served me well. And now I have a lot that I can pass along. So in my grandma, in my grandma era.

[Beth Barbo]

Well, I think that if we could bring back generational wisdom, right. There's been a couple of lost generations. The young moms having babies now don't always have mothers who have experience with natural birth. A lot of them were highly medicated or had cesareans. Their grandmas, maybe. So there's sort of a gap here in terms of the hand on. Off of practical information. And I see people floundering. So all the people out there who have had births, there's. You all have wisdom to offer. And I, I'm going to do a midwife thing once again and just say everyone who is talking to freshly pregnant or having first baby kinds of people. You're not allowed to tell scary birth stories. That is a compulsion that we have from our own trauma and our own story that has not been heard. And maybe we can figure out ways, ways to have people be cared for and loved and have that story processed or healed or whatever. But you can't just tell scary stuff that's not going to help people make better choices. Choices not from fear, but from empowerment. So, you know, they're like, how was yours? And people can say, you know, I learned a lot in that. Yeah, I learned a lot. You know, it's a great. It's an amazing journey. And I would say if I could offer one piece of Advice, it'd be like, get more information, find the right book. And in fact, I have a blog post on here's books that doulas and midwives suggest that you read if you're at all interested in a natural birth. Yeah. So there's lots of good stuff out there all over the place. And I, I just love this topic and I frankly think it goes tremendously well with a thousand hours outside. Because I think getting outside, as we talked about it before, getting outside makes people sometimes uncomfortable when it's new to us and when we're asked to be adaptable to unforeseen conditions. And birth brings that up. And it's about being in our bodies, it's about being present, it's about learning normal. To me, it's part of that continuum. This is. We're back to healthy births, healthy lives.

[Ginny Urch]

That's right. That's right. We've never done a to be continued episode, but this will be the first one to be continued. We're kind of walking through my, My own birth story, which I've not. I, I think I got on one podcast and told it, but it's not really out there. And, and they're good stories. It's good stories to hear and there's lots to learn from them. So people can be connected with you if you are pregnant, if you are thinking about getting pregnant, if you have daughters, if you don't have the generational wisdom, if you have friends that are pregnant, if you're, if you're in the grandma stage, you know, it's just good to be connected with you. And I know that a lot of people have found connection and, and send beautiful feedback back about things that they've learned or things that then they found through your website or through your newsletter. So just a lot of very practical, very helpful information in a day and age when there isn't that generational wisdom. So back. Thank you for being here. To be continued. Will come next time.

[Beth Barbo]

Bye bye.

[Ginny Urch]

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