The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast

Episode: 1KHO 650: An Antidote to the Crushing Pace of Childhood
Host: Ginny Yurich
Guest: Heather Shumaker, author of It's OK Not to Share
Release Date: December 15, 2025
Network: That Sounds Fun Network

Episode Overview

This episode explores the urgency and importance of reclaiming unstructured outdoor play in childhood. Host Ginny Yurich interviews Heather Shumaker, author of It's OK Not to Share, about how modern cultural norms and well-intentioned parenting practices are undermining key elements of childhood. The conversation offers a compelling defense of spontaneous play, practical ways to support children’s social-emotional growth, and strategies for shifting mindsets about sharing, conflict, and friendship. Drawing on research and decades of experience, Heather provides guidance for nurturing truly competent, compassionate kids.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The "Crushing Pace" of Modern Childhood

• Opening Discussion [01:07]
  • Ginny and Heather discuss the relentless scheduling of children’s lives and the resulting decline in outdoor play.
  • Quote (Heather): "Kids need that downtime. They don’t need—we get exhausted by our schedules, they get exhausted by our schedules." [02:07]
  • Heather references research showing that only 1 in 10 parents reported their kids played outside once a week. Many children don’t even wait for the bus outdoors anymore. [01:54]
  • Theme: Time is being stolen from play, often in the name of ‘preparing’ for the next stage of life.

The Value of Play for Development

• Preparation vs. Presence [03:03]
  • Heather challenges the mindset of always preparing kids for the ‘next’ thing instead of meeting their present needs.
  • Quote (Heather): "You can’t make corn grow by pulling on it." [03:20]
  • Play is essential for learning how to set limits, deal with feelings, and resolve conflicts—not just as preparation for academics, but as the foundation for life.
  • Quote (Heather): "We’re preparing our children for life, but we’re preparing them at the appropriate age of a three-year-old and then when they’re five, at the appropriate age for a five-year-old." [05:07]

The Rights-Based Approach to Childhood

• The School for Young Children [06:14]
  • Heather describes the Columbus, Ohio preschool that inspired her book and philosophy, emphasizing children’s rights (e.g., the right to move your body, the right to uninterrupted play).
  • The school observes and trusts children’s natural play behaviors, including wrestling and roughhousing, using these as opportunities for social learning.
  • Quote (Heather): "They have a right to play… Check in. Are you both having fun? Because if one of them’s having fun and the other one isn’t, it’s not play, it’s a conflict." [07:42]
  • Respect for children’s current developmental needs underpins the school’s entire approach.

Unstructured Play: Blocks of Time Matter

• The Importance of Long Play Periods [11:51]
  • Research shows American children average just 4-7 minutes of unstructured outdoor play per day, but spend 4-7 hours on screens.
  • “Free play demands large blocks of time of one or two hours or more… Shorter play periods reduce the complexity and maturity of children’s play.” [12:00]
  • Schools and parents often unintentionally interrupt play with routines or “snack time.” Adjusting schedules to preserve play leads to richer friendships, increased vocabulary, and greater complexity in children’s activities.
  • Quote (Heather): "You think you’re not interrupting, but you are." [15:15]

Rethinking "Sharing" and Turn-Taking

• Challenging Forced Sharing [20:21]
  • Ginny shares her realization upon reading Heather’s book: “I never considered that…I don’t share all of my things.” [20:29]
  • Heather explains how forced sharing or timed turns actually undermine genuine generosity and children’s right to uninterrupted play.
  • Quote (Heather): "Being coerced into being nice is really not true generosity… If you’re in the middle of reading a book and you’re right at the climax and I take it out of your hands because your friend wants it, you know, we would say no." [21:27]
  • Children—especially girls—need chances to set boundaries and have those limits respected.
  • Managing envy and frustration in the child who’s waiting is just as developmentally important; parents should support the process, not shortcut it.

Addressing “Hoarding” Behavior

• Scenario: What if a child has all the toys?
  • "Some kids really need a sense of control and that that sense of control and safety and abundance is what they need at that moment." [26:54]
  • Adult perceptions of enough do not match children’s developmental needs.
  • Waiting, not grabbing or manipulating, is a vital skill and part of impulse control.

Authentic Social Skills: Navigating Friendship and Exclusion

• Forced Inclusion vs. Organic Social Learning [32:46]
  • Well-meaning adults often force group inclusion (“Now, include Stacy!”), but this can actually stifle developmental progress.
  • Quote (Heather, story): Two girls, playing house, are told to include an outsider. The girls assign her the role of “the baby—who’s asleep”—effectively sidelining her. [34:03]
  • Kids need opportunities to manage social groupings, learn to enter play, and sometimes face (occasional, not chronic) rejection.
  • "Taking turns with people, just like taking turns with objects." [34:03]
  • Chronic, repeated exclusion is different and requires adult intervention, but ordinary everyday “no, not right now” is not a social crisis.

Coaching Social Entry (for Newcomers)

• Adults can (quietly) coach children to observe, wait, and make offers that fit the play (“What can you bring to add to the group?”).
  • Notable Story [39:58]: Little boy Ben, wearing a tiger suit, is rejected from two girls’ ‘no boys, no tigers’ play space. By talking through their fears (“He’ll growl”), the adult mediates, conditions are agreed upon, and Ben is included.

The Power and Need for Rough-and-Tumble Play

• Physical Play, Especially for Boys [45:47]
  • Boys are expelled from preschool at five times the rate of girls, in part because their biological need for movement is undervalued.
  • Quote (Heather): "Our comfort level is not the same as the kids’ comfort level and comfort needs." [47:10]
  • Roughhousing, wrestling, and chase games are developmentally crucial—especially for developing the prefrontal cortex, self-control, reasoning, and social skills.
  • Quote (Heather): “It's just as important to roughhouse with kids as to read them a story.” [50:48]

Conflict Resolution—Beyond “Say You’re Sorry”

• Teaching True Responsibility [55:19]
  • The standard demand to “say sorry” leads to insincere apologies and fails to teach children authentic remorse or responsibility.
  • Quote (Heather): "You can make a kid give up a toy. You can make them say sorry. But what we’d like—if you’re the wronged kid… you want to feel safe, not just hear an apology." [55:24]
  • Instead, adults should help children stick around after a conflict, verbalize their boundaries, and commit to different behaviors in the future.
  • Detailed, practical mediation steps are outlined in Heather’s book (and summarized at the end of each chapter).

Practical Takeaways & Advice

• Big Blocks of Unstructured Outdoor Play
  • Rework schedules, minimize interruptions.
  • Allow play to run its course—don’t segment it unnecessarily with adult-imposed routines.
• Respect for Each Child’s Present Needs
  • Academics will come; don’t rush future-oriented skills at the expense of the present experience.
• Model and Support Authentic Social Interactions
  • Avoid solving every peer conflict; provide coaching and language instead.
  • Let children own their right to choose playmates and respect limits.
• Permission for Physical Play
  • Accept some chaos and risk as developmentally necessary.
  • Set boundaries for safety, but encourage rough-and-tumble activity.
• Words to Try / Words to Avoid
  • Each chapter of Heather’s book provides sample language and “cheat sheets”—practical help for nuanced real-life settings.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the pace of childhood:
  • Heather: “Kids need that downtime. They don’t need—we get exhausted by our schedules, they get exhausted by our schedules.” [02:07]
• On age-appropriate development:
  • Heather: “You can’t make corn grow by pulling on it.” [03:20]
• On children’s rights in play:
  • Heather: “You have a right to move your body. You have a right to be outside, even if it’s raining. You have a right. So they based it on rights.” [07:42]
• On generosity and sharing:
  • Heather: “Being coerced into being nice is really not true generosity.” [21:27]
  • Ginny: “You’re protecting the child’s right to uninterrupted play, while at the same time you’re also helping the other child with impulse control.” [26:06]
• On inclusion:
  • Heather: “If we think about it as taking turns with people, just like taking turns with an object…” [34:03]
• On roughhousing:
  • Heather: “Rough and tumble play helps to develop the brain’s frontal lobe … the better this area is developed, the better kids do in all areas of life.” [49:28]
  • Ginny: “It’s just as important to roughhouse with kids as to read them a story.” [50:48]
• On ‘sorry’:
  • Heather: "Saying sorry is a cop out… What we want to teach kids is to stick around the scene, to take responsibility for their actions and understand that their words, arms and legs can impact other people." [59:11]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|-------------------------------------------------| | 01:07 | The crushing pace of modern childhood | | 03:20 | The harmful effects of ‘preparing’ kids | | 07:42 | Children’s rights-based preschool philosophy | | 11:51 | Decline in outdoor play; need for unstructured blocks | | 20:21 | Why forced sharing and “on-demand” generosity fail | | 26:54 | Handling “hoarding” & abundance in play | | 32:46 | Forced inclusion and healthy social exclusion | | 39:58 | Story: Ben in the tiger suit & negotiating inclusion | | 45:47 | The essential value of rough-and-tumble play | | 50:48 | Roughhousing’s link to executive functions | | 55:24 | Problems with “say you’re sorry” | | 59:11 | Building authentic conflict resolution |

Episode Tone & Language

Both Ginny and Heather maintain a supportive, conversational, and refreshingly candid tone. Heather’s approach is reassuring, research-based, and practical. Ginny’s questions reflect a genuine curiosity, humility, and delight in learning new ideas, echoing the likely reactions of listeners.

Final Reflections

Heather urges parents to relax and trust the developmental value of unstructured, outdoor, peer-driven play. The episode not only challenges many modern assumptions about sharing, friendship, and conflict, but offers empowering alternatives rooted in respecting children’s rights and real needs. Her book’s combination of philosophy and actionable language is highlighted as an invaluable tool for adults guiding children through the messiness and magic of growing up.

Recommended Reading:

• It’s OK Not to Share and Other Renegade Rules for Raising Competent and Compassionate Kids by Heather Shumaker
• It’s OK to Go Up the Slide (sequel)
• The Griffins of Castle Cary (middle grade)