The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast

Episode: 1KHO 653: Gain Deeper Relationships Through Dependence on Others
Guests: Kevan Chandler & Tommy Shelton
Date: December 18, 2025
Host: Jenny Ervin (That Sounds Fun Network)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the transformative power of interdependence, vulnerability, and the “hospitality of need.” Jenny welcomes Kevan Chandler, author and disability advocate, and Tommy Shelton, pastor and co-author, to discuss their new book The Hospitality of Need: How Depending on One Another Helps Us Heal and Grow Together. Through personal stories, spiritual insights, and reflective questions, the conversation challenges listeners to rethink independence, embrace need as a path to deeper relationships, and build communities marked by mutual care.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to the Guests and the Concept of "Hospitality of Need"

• Kevan Chandler shares his background living with spinal muscular atrophy (SMA), resulting lifelong dependence on others, and how it led to unique, profound relationships.
• Tommy Shelton recounts growing up in the same town as Kevan, many years of friendship, and what drew him to collaborate on the book.
• The genesis of the book: a unique friendship, a shared love of storytelling, and the realization that “need” itself can be a radical kind of hospitality.

Notable Quote:
"These guys, they're not just coming in to take care of me every morning. One of them referred to it as my predictable pattern...it's this guaranteed time of connection."
— Kevan Chandler [17:16]

2. Reframing Hospitality and Need

• Jenny reflects on personal struggles with asking for help, societal expectations of independence, and how the book expands her perspective:
  • Traditional hospitality often means “hosting,” but the book reveals it’s about “how you make someone feel” and even “showing up to be fed.”
• Kevan describes how clarity about his needs opened doors for deeper friendships. His friends’ acts of caregiving became rhythms of connection and meaning in both their lives.

Notable Quotes:
"Hospitality is also showing up to be fed... that’s really challenging to me."
— Jenny Ervin [13:34]

"By inviting these guys into my need, I am saying to them that I trust them and that they are trustworthy... and it really does something powerful to a person's heart."
— Kevan Chandler [17:16]

3. Vulnerability and Mutual Growth

• Tommy, as a pastor, shares how serving Kevan also serves him spiritually. He reorients the narrative around need; helping others isn’t just an obligation but a joy and a chance to be selfless.
• Conversation turns to why it’s hard to be the one in need:
  • The “air we breathe” in American Christianity is that growth means becoming more independent — but in fact, dependence is a spiritual virtue.
  • The cultural lie is that the giver is better than the receiver. In reality, both roles are essential to healthy community.

Notable Quotes:
"Even though it’s hard work… it is simultaneously such a surpassing joy."
— Tommy Shelton [20:33]

"We start to believe that the giver is better than the receiver. And that’s not the case at all."
— Tommy Shelton [27:51]

4. Community, Ownership, and the Role of “Need” in Relationships

• Kevan illustrates with stories: needs—whether obvious or hidden—are the engine that forges authentic community:
  • His home became a hub for friends because of the caregiving rhythm; it fostered an open-door environment.
  • Through his courtship with his wife Katie (amid pandemic and physical distance), dependence on friends turned their love story into a community effort.
• Tommy observes that programs don’t build community, but shared needs, such as coordinating Vacation Bible School or responding to a personal crisis, do.

Notable Quotes:
"The invitation into that need... by stepping into this need, it now becomes part of my need also. I’m coming in shoulder to shoulder with this person."
— Kevan Chandler [32:32]

"Every time a need came up, and we rallied around it, that’s where the community came from."
— Tommy Shelton [39:10]

5. When the Church Gets it Wrong — and How To Heal

• The conversation turns deeply personal as Jenny shares a painful story about losing her church community after seeking help:
  • The wounds of unmet needs in religious settings, their lasting damage, and the scarcity of genuine support.
• Tommy responds with honesty about his own experiences of being hurt by churches, reminding listeners not to judge Christ by those who fail in His name.
• Grace, humility, and mutual confession are offered as antidotes to pain and disillusionment with church.

Notable Quotes:
"If we have been harmed or damaged by someone claiming Christ, we haven’t been harmed or damaged by Christ. We’ve been harmed by someone who took the name of Christ."
— Tommy Shelton [55:45]

"I think our built-in reaction as people in human flesh is to go to self-preservation… if instead we approach situations with an intentional view that we need each other… it can help us to soften."
— Kevan Chandler [61:12]

Memorable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)

• Forging Friendship Over Breakfast:
  "Friendships forged in the fires of eggs and swords."
  — Kevan Chandler [08:28]

• On Need and Value:
  “Needs are not crimes. It’s okay to confess those and invite other people to help meet those—not to overcome them, but to live in this life with you, which is marked by need from cradle to grave.”
  — Tommy Shelton [30:40]

• Power of Community in Crisis:
  “We need one another. We have been built, we’ve been designed for community."
  — Tommy Shelton [37:15]

• Redefining Burden:
  "Sometimes I can't help but wonder, you know, am I a burden? And it's like, no. Like, no, you're not. It's an opportunity."
  — Tommy Shelton [22:56]

• On the Fruit of Dependence:
  "I burst into laughter because I was like, oh, I’ve had deep conversations with 10 different men this week because they got me up in the morning."
  — Kevan Chandler [43:08]

Key Timestamps

• 04:41 — Guests introduce themselves and set context for book collaboration
• 11:59 — Kevan introduces the “hospitality of need” concept
• 17:00-20:00 — How care rhythms create deep relationships
• 27:45 — Tommy's critique of the independence narrative in the church
• 32:32 — How need fosters true community & connection
• 39:54 — Tommy’s story of communal service via Vacation Bible School
• 41:03 — Kevan recounts how vulnerability allows others to see themselves differently
• 51:32 — Tommy’s favorite childhood outdoor memory
• 52:39-66:01 — Emotional discussion on church failure, healing from hurt, and living out vulnerability
• 66:25 — Tommy closes with a heartfelt prayer for Jenny and all listeners

Tone, Style & Language

• Candid, humble, sometimes emotional (Jenny is brought to tears recounting her own trauma)
• Deeply spiritual and biblical, but also practical and concrete
• A blend of storytelling, thoughtful reflection, and actionable insight
• Frequently lightened by humor, warmth, and self-deprecation
  ("You're cheating, Bobby." [49:58])

Concluding Reflections

The Hospitality of Need challenges the expectation of radical self-sufficiency, offering practical and spiritual reasons to embrace our needs and those of others as profound opportunities for connection and growth. Through laughter, tears, and prayer, the episode models the very hospitality it invites—being present with each other, in need, with open hands and open hearts.

More Information

• Learn more about Kevan's work, accessible adventure gear, and his books (including the new King’s Cadet and Little Joe) at wecarrykevan.org
• Recommended reading: The Ball and the Cross by G.K. Chesterton

Final Words:
"I think there’s really a lot of power in the book, The Hospitality of Need… Any time I am open to expressing my needs and inviting others in, it gives people practice. So maybe when they get… a letter in the mail from a nine-year-old girl that says, ‘I lost all my friends, will you please help?’—they don’t turn a blind eye."
— Jenny Ervin [52:39]