← The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 665: Embrace the Flaws in Your Family | Kirk Martin, The Calm Parenting Podcast
00:58:28
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- [00:00]
Intro Song Vocalist
Oh, it's a beautiful world Ain't nothing on screen that's ever gonna be this view oh, it's a beautiful world and I just want to share with I just want to share with you this beautiful world Such a beautiful.
- [00:34]
Podcast Host (1000 Hours Outside)
Before we begin, I'd like to say thank you for pressing play. This podcast exists because of listeners like you, people who believe childhood, family life and learning don't have to be lived indoors or on screens. And this message isn't just for parents. It's for anyone who wants a more grounded, vibrant, real life kind of life. Teachers, mentors, grandparents, college students, the burned out, the hopeful, and the people who simply want their days to feel more like living again. We are walking into a new year and we're celebrating in a big way. 15 million downloads and a brand new intro outro song called It's a Beautiful World. Now streaming. It is a collab between in paradise and our older daughter's two better friends who added harmony and guitar. The lyrics are honestly incredible. Add it to your playlist. And speaking of the new year, our 2026 tracker sheets are here. Two brand new designs and they are stunning. These are a simple tool to make real life visible again. They help you with, especially if you're a parent. Model balance In a world that constantly pulls us towards screens, the trackers build momentum, add excitement, give everyone something to celebrate. And they turn ordinary outdoor time into memories you can actually point to and say this matters. Grab your free tracker@1000hours outside.com tracker. Print one out for a friend while you're at it. People are joining in all over the world. If paper trackers aren't your thing, check out our top ranked app available on iOS and Android. Okay, today's guest is one of your favorites. Kirk Martin from Calm Parenting is helping us ring in the new year. We're talking triggers, strong willed, kids and how to keep your home from becoming a constant reaction cycle. Let's get into it.
- [02:09]
Sponsor Voice (State Farm)
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast. Smart move. Being financially savvy. Smart move. Another smart move. Having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.
- [02:39]
Jenny Urchin
All right, here we go. Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urchin, the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I have one of your very, very favorite guests back today, Kirk Martin from Calm Parenting. Welcome.
- [02:51]
Kirk Martin
Jenny. I told you before I came on here, I've done several podcasts this week and I was just looking forward to getting through them so I could get to this one. You're the best. I just like being with you. You're joyful, like, who wouldn't want to hang with you? Plus, I want your audience to know Jenny asks the best questions. Like, she prepares for this. She's smart. Like, yeah, I love that.
- [03:14]
Jenny Urchin
I love hanging out. And I just think everybody wants to be a calm parent. Everybody. So you have your own podcast with so many episodes and everything is so applicable from your homework battles to like, my kid won't get out the door to, you know, I, they're fighting with their sibling. I'm struggling with my marriage. It's like the whole package to make this childhood experience, these childhood years better for everyone. You have courses that people can take, but people can pop over and listen to your podcast. There's, they're fairly short. It's like, I mean, you're going to get what you need out of it. 20 minutes, 25 minutes. Yeah, 22 minutes. And it's coming right at you. I have to tell you this. So I found the other day, I'd never seen this before. Maybe it was like a restructuring, but there's like a back end where you upload your podcasts and all of a sudden there was this new thing where people can leave comments and I'd never seen that before. So I was like scrolling through and I was like, most have no comments, but occasionally it'll be like one comment or two comments. And then I was like, oh, one of them has like nine comments. And I was like, who's is that? And it was yours.
- [04:10]
Kirk Martin
It was me. I was just commenting on myself.
- [04:14]
Jenny Urchin
You're like, I'm going to give my name Grizzly cody or E. Bedford, 1982. I'm gonna call myself Brooke Smith. But they're saying things like this. So helpful. We are a household with five strong willed people, mom and dad and three kids. So we are walking in dysfunction right now. Grasping for practical advice like this. This was super insightful and gave me several ideas to start right away. This mom has some work to do. I shared with my husband so we can discuss together soon.
- [04:42]
Kirk Martin
That's beautiful. That's beautiful.
- [04:45]
Jenny Urchin
And they're all like that. They're all like that. So you got this backstory. Your, your son is an adult now and just so delightful. But you know, you had a little bit of you.
- [04:56]
Kirk Martin
To you, he is a little bit.
- [04:59]
Jenny Urchin
Of hard rubbing up against each other, you know, hard, hard things as he's growing up. But you talked about how so many of these qualities end up being really.
- [05:08]
Podcast Host (1000 Hours Outside)
Huge benefits once they hit adulthood.
- [05:10]
Jenny Urchin
But you're helping parents like with strong willed neurodivergent kids, adhd, asd, anxiety, ocd, all of these types of that can make home life tricky. And I think it like that mom said it's just so unbelievably valuable for, for families, for kids, for siblings. So I'd like to just talk, start off with this concept of being triggered. And this is something that you talk about, you talk about in. You especially talk about it for dads, but moms too, and you talk about when we're triggered. And I think that when you're dealing with kids who are strong willed, which to your point, like, there are some really good positives to that, it can very triggering. And then we end up in this reactive type home that everyone's kind of miserable and it's like what you don't want. And you and I both know, like, these kids grow up and you can't go back and redo it. So can we kick it off with what are some things that you have heard and learned and seen that really trigger parents? A top couple things and how can we deal with that?
- [06:10]
Kirk Martin
Cool. Okay, so three things. I think they're pushing your buttons because you have so many buttons to push. Right? That's. Why do they have to do it? Well, okay, so we'll start there. Like we have these triggers. A lot of them come from childhood. Right. It's just. And so, so many things from childhood. Like mine was, I had a career military father, so it was dawdling is a big trigger trigger because we had to be ready early. If you weren't ready five minutes early, you were like late. And we had to like line up for inspection before we went somewhere. So I became a dad and it's like, well, we have to be everywhere on time. Well, then naturally you have a strong willed child who goes more slowly. And then you get triggered. And then you're like, case, you need to. Case, get. You need to move right now. And what I always want parents to know is when you start that anxiety kicks in and you're getting triggered, you get the exact opposite result that you want. So Casey would move more slowly. And what I realized was he wasn't rejecting my authority, he was rejecting my anxiety, me getting triggered. So the Fact that you're getting triggered. Moms and dads. Good. Own your triggers. Write them down. This is what triggers me. And then I'd encourage you to do this and you can get triggered. Disrespect is a big one. I'll throw this out there, Jeannie, because we're friends, I'd say perceived disrespect. So many parents take everything personally. And men in particular all act like we're NFL wide receivers and everybody's disrespecting me. Like, it's just. You're a grown up. Like, it's a kid who's doing dumb kid stuff and they trigger you, and then we react. And so if I had one thing or two things to do. Sit in the midst of your trigger. Like, a lot of moms and dads get triggered by a mess in the house because, well, now there's disorder. And I grew up in a home where there was. I grew up in a home where there's a lot of disorder. And maybe I had a parent who was an alcohol alcoholic. And so I had to be the responsible one. And that means I put everything together and I helped raise my brother. And then I grew up to be a nurse, a social worker, or a mom who likes to be responsible for everyone else. And I have these unrealistic expectations on me as a mom that if the house isn't clean and orderly, I'm doing something wrong. And you can see, Jenny, like, you spiral with these thoughts of, like, what am I doing wrong? My mom would have never done this. Why can't my kids pick things up? If they can't pick things up, are they going to grow up and be, you know, disorganized and not successful? All this stuff just hits you. So the first thing I'd say is, set. Sit in the midst of that trigger. I like sitting because it is very hard to yell and react when you're sitting down. If I'm standing up in the kitchen and I'm looking at my son, who's looking at me, our eye contact triggers each other, our body posture triggers. When I sit down, it just slows things down. Sit in the midst of your trigger, in the midst of that mess without trying to fix it, that is really hard to do because we all want to fix the trigger and try to make it go away. I would rather sit in the midst of it until it bothers me, but it doesn't trigger me viscerally because then I can begin to see situations. Jenny. Part of it, for me, being calm, it's not like a technique. I'm not trying to be Gandhi or something. It's a tool that I use because when I'm not calm, my mind is racing and I'm not seeing things clearly and I'm escalating and I'm hurting my relationship with my child and I'm saying negative things. How are you ever going to be successful? You can't ever do this. When I slow my world down, I see clearly now I can say, okay, they did this. They didn't do this on purpose. Maybe they did, but I can now problem solve and teach instead of just reacting and venting all of my resentment. After all I do for you, I cook for you and I clean and I try to keep the home clean. And then in five minutes, you come home from school and you do this. And as a homeschooler, like, your home should never be like, if it's ever clean. I don't know how you do that with like 5.
- [10:35]
Jenny Urchin
Mine is not there. Never is.
- [10:37]
Kirk Martin
I was just thinking that's how Jenny came up with a thousand hours outside of, like, please just get outside.
- [10:44]
Jenny Urchin
I don't see any of that. Well, and I'll go too. You know, so then I'm like, I don't see any of it.
- [10:49]
Kirk Martin
Exactly.
- [10:50]
Jenny Urchin
Total blessing for the parent and the child.
- [10:52]
Kirk Martin
Yes. But. But I'd say sit in it. Here's a cool kind of. I hate hacks because you can't hack life. Life is hard and it takes time. So I don't do like, here's how you hack your health. You can't hack your health. But a quick one is do the opposite of what you normally do. So with our son, case, come on, you got to go, got to go, got to go. Well, I'm going to rush him. Well, that's having the opposite effect. So what if I actually sit down when I'm in a rush, when I'm in a rush, when I'm driving, I allow one other person to cut in front of me, not two. Jesus would only do one. So two. No, I'm just kidding. So. So I allow one person to cut in front of me. Why? Because now I'm taking back control of the situation. I'm not letting my anxiety and my trigger control me. I'm allowing them at the post office. No, you cut in front of me. You go first. Because otherwise I'm just tense the whole time. Why don't they hire more people? Why is this taking so much time? I'm such a busy person and then you're just Irritable. But I let someone cut in front of me. And now while we're standing in line, I'm not tense and I'm talking to this person who's grateful that I was gracious to them even though I kind of hate them because they're probably going to have like too many packages.
- [12:16]
Jenny Urchin
So relatable when you're like, why don't they have more staff? Oh, especially at the holidays. Okay, well, here's the, Here is my big question. How do you decide or learn which things are reasonable in which things are unreasonable? And I, it's probably not black and white, but you're the example that you gave were such good examples. You gave the example of being on time. Now I got friends that are late to everything. You know, and in my grandparents, my grandparents showed up like 25 minutes early. My, my parents would have to tell them a different time for the holidays to like factor in how early they were going to come. You know, they were like, they just showed up. You're like, why are you here? You know, so like being on time with an example that you brought, cleaning up after yourself, that's an example you brought up. And you can start to spiral. Like your thoughts can spiral and be like, my kid is not going to out. You know, they're eight years old, they're going to be a slob, their wife's not going to be able to stand them. Your, your thoughts start to spiral. And then you know, another one that's very common is like work before play. So that's, you know, it's like, we got to get your homework done before, you know, before you go read or before you go outside to play. Like this, these sort of different things that maybe we grew up with and haven't really had any time to reflect. And then all of a sudden you're a parent, you're kind of thrown in and you're drowning. It's like, how do you know what's reasonable to uphold and what you can let go?
- [13:32]
Kirk Martin
You know, that's a good question. You know what just hit me is the beautiful part about having a strong willed child especially is they'll let you know. Because when you do that, no, no, you got to do your work before play. They'll be like, that's dumb. And you'll be like, well, that's disrespectful. And then upon further reflection, you're like, yeah, that's pretty dumb. Like, why, like, even with like Casey, really, you know Casey, because you hung out with him a lot. But he would challenge stuff. And so I think it was letting go a little bit of ego, learning to challenge things yourself. Like a lot of, a lot of us grew up with parents and you, you're afraid to question because you were taught, say, especially in a lot of religious environments, Jenny, you're taught, like you don't question anything, right? But a lot of those things that we were taught just aren't right. And so I try to step back. I guess it started a lot for us, like with Casey in school, it was like, well, we need to get good grades. And then we step back and said, what are we really after? Well, we want to raise a curious child who loves to learn. Well, grades don't really play into that a whole lot. We just want to be curious and love to learn. And then I start to step back as a family. And here's one thing, maybe that would help. We started making a list of all the qualities necessary for success in life as an adult. Because we realize we're not raising kids to be kids, we're raising them to be adults. So with Casey, okay, the ability to sit still in school all day and memorize information, I never use that in the corporate world. So we actually put a list, made a list on our refrigerator of these are the qualities that are important. And then you kind of bump up against those. And I guess also Jenny, for me it was more about evaluating my own rigidity and my own control issues. It wasn't even about whether it was right or not. It was just, I'm too controlling. I try to hold on to things and I have a lot of anxiety. And that anxiety causes me to project out into the future of like, well, if my 14 year old, like most middle school age boys, like, they're not rocket scientists, right? Like, they're, they're, they're basically blobs and hoodie sweatshirts who grunt and we project and think, who is going to marry this child, who's going to hire this child? And they change. And some of it is, some of it is just perspective of stepping back and saying what's really important. I just did this example of, you know, with Casey when he was starting to get a little bit mouthy at age 2. I'm kidding. But he got mouthy pretty early. And I remember at first it was always like, you can't talk to me like that because I could never talk to my dad like that. And, you know, all the good natural reasons everybody listening would say, kids shouldn't talk back. And I remember one time just saying, you know what I like about you, Casey, is you're not afraid to speak up because I was never allowed to speak up and I've gotten taken advantage of. I get resentful sometimes and you're not afraid to do that. And the truth is, sometimes I get frustrated with you because you do talk back and your reasoning is actually very good. And part of the reason you're good at arguing is because you listen. Then you dissect things. You have really good critical thinking skills and you're very logical, and then you're also very persuasive and you're also persistent and you're annoying. But I love those qualities. So all those things are true when I said, so I apologize for in the past just shutting you down. I want to show you how to use all those amazing qualities and I want to show you where that line is, where you go, where you, where you cross the line and get into disrespect with me. Because he did. And that snotty little tone. And so I said, take all these things, they're good. Leave out the snotty tone. And so I was actually teaching him how to argue with me respectfully. Which our parents would have never done.
- [17:46]
Jenny Urchin
Yeah, yeah, you can't argue at all.
- [17:48]
Kirk Martin
You can't even speak up, really. And then that led to a lot of bad outcomes for people who are afraid to speak up to authority figures. And we don't need to get into political stuff, but that happens all the time. So I don't think I answered your question well. And I feel.
- [18:06]
Jenny Urchin
No, I think.
- [18:07]
Kirk Martin
You sure?
- [18:07]
Jenny Urchin
I. I think that you answered it wonderfully. So it. You. The first question was, how do you know if something is unreasonable? Because I do think this is a really tricky thing. Like, you grow up in your own childhood, your whole childhood, and you have these different norms in your families, and then you become a parent and your kid pushes back. Like, you know, we got kids, it's like, well, when should their curfew be? Are they allowed to stay the night at this? You know, and it's like you kind of just make these knee jerk reactions, right? And you don't think about it at all. And then they push back. And. And you said, how can you tell if something is unreasonable? It's when they push back. And actually then that's a really good thing because it allows you to sort through and say, is this unreasonable? Like, I've got a kid who's 17 years old, he's going to be an adult in six months, you know, is it Reasonable that he has to be home at 10:30 instead, you know, 10 instead of 10:30, can he come home 30 minutes later? You know, and it's like, well, my parents would never have let me, or my parents would let me go on that camping trip or my parents.
- [19:04]
Kirk Martin
Right, right.
- [19:06]
Jenny Urchin
You have this inside of you and so I love that. It's like the, the child gives a little bit of a challenge there. It may not change your mind, but it might. And that's a benefit. It's like you have grown to become this more all encompassing person. And then the spiraling thoughts, you answer that incredibly well too, because you reframe, you reframe and you're like, okay. Instead of this person, like, are they going to be a slob forever? It's like, well, they're really creative, you know, or whatever.
- [19:35]
Kirk Martin
You know, they just need some tools. Right. I. Jen, you know how I'd answer it as well? Like, I'm getting older and the more perspective I have, especially as Casey gets older and I see how he navigates the adult world, I'm like, most of those things we were worried about when he was a kid, they're just not that important. But like, I guarantee, like, parents who have little kids. Remember what this was like, Jenny? It's like, oh my gosh, every single decision we make is going to have an outcome on our child and whether he or she is successful in life. And they're like four. And you're like, well, if I give him a piece of candy, is he going to be entitled? It's like, well, if you give your child everything they demand through their childhood, yeah, you're raising a monster. But nobody listening to your podcast or mine is doing that. And so I'm realizing part of, you know what I get told now, which is nice way of people saying getting old is they're like, parents are now you're like parenting me. You're like the dad that I didn't have. And I like that role because I like being a dad. But it's. Most of my work now is saying, chill, your kids are going to be okay. They're just being kids. They're just like, you have teenagers. We have this expectation of like, well, they need to learn how to be responsible, make good choices. Of course they do. But it's the first time they've been a teenager. Like, I'm still my age. Like we talked before, we still make dumb decisions. Like, absolutely, yeah, we're still figuring it out. I, I guess I want to take the pressure off of Parents of thinking we have to make every decision, right? The one thing like, you know, Casey and I hike a lot and so we add up our hours to make sure we get our thousand hours, but we get a lot of outside together. And the one thing that comes back which hopefully helps people is it's the connection that we had. It wasn't whether we did this right or we made this decision. We just had a basic connection. And when we did mess up, which we did a lot, we always humbled ourselves. Hey, Case, sorry I took that. I took my anxiety out on you and yelled at you. Apologies. And if I ask him, what did you learn most, he said, dad, I just watch how you navigate life. Like, there's no need to lecture. Like, well, you need to be giving and generous in life. No, your kids will clear. Like, if you're giving and generous, your kids can't miss that, right? If you're sitting around at night and you're talking about other people and you're kind of judging them, your kids hear that and so take the pressure off of, I have to raise these kids the right way. Enjoy them, enjoy the connection, get outside a lot. Oh, Jenny, can I tell you what I was thinking about the other night for getting kids outside and now I just forgot it because I brought it up was just doing fun stuff, right? Like hiding something outside. Kids love treasure hunts and you're in the snow. Even like throwing Mac and cheese in the backyard or chicken nuggets because that's all strong willed kids eat anyway. And letting them eat out on the snow on all fours. It's like, I just got my kids outside because I've learned from you, once you get kids outside and doing something, then they'll stay outside. It's that act of getting from the house to the outdoors that is so much fun. So doing. I recommended to some parents that they get some eggs, cheap ones, because they're too expensive. Now get the cheap eggs that you don't want to eat and just have a fun time of like, hey, we're gonna hike, we're gonna walk a mile down to this place and then you guys can throw eggs at me. Now make sure you have enough distance and you don't get hurt. But now we're outside and we're having fun and now we're connecting and laughing. So many behavior issues go away. When you go have fun and you're laughing with your kids and they feel good about the relationship.
- [23:47]
Jenny Urchin
Isn't that the truth? Isn't that the truth? I read this book by A man, his name's Jimmy Darts and which is like a, I guess a YouTube name. But he, it. He's got this huge following, Kirk. And he, like, if someone does something nice for him, very small, he. Then he'll do something really, really generous for them back. He's built this huge social media following doing it. So here's an example. He was at this Goodwill store and this woman, and she was in like a, a walker type thing. An old, like an older woman. And he's, and he's this younger guy and he's like, I'm, I'm running late. I'm going to this party. He's like, I'm awful at wrapping gifts. Could you please just help me wrap this gift? You know? And she, like, gets a little annoyed, but then she's like, sure, I'll help you. And so she wraps the gift up for him. He's got scissors and tape. She wraps it up and then he says, what's your name? And she says, rachel. So he writes her name on it. What's your husband's name? Winston or something like that. He writes and he gives. He's like, actually, this is for you. And they open up this package and it has 500 in it. And. And then what he finds out is that these are grandparents and they're homeless and they're just trying to find gifts to send to their grandkids. And then he does a GoFundMe and he raises fifty thousand, thousand dollars or seventy thousand dollars for these grandparents to get them in a home. And I mean, it's incredible. And this is what he talks about. He says, like, go have fun. Like, go have fun. He, he'll, he'll meet up with strangers that maybe, like, are homeless or they're kind of destitute. And I'll be like, let's go to theme park for the day. Like, let's go have fun. And, and in broadcasting fun, you're just broadcasting God's love. You're broadcasting joy. And, and so you see in your life with Casey that you continue to do this. You have what everybody wants, which is an adult child who will go hiking with you. And long hikes. This isn't like I'm going on a 10 minute walk with my dad.
- [25:31]
Kirk Martin
Did I tell you? He put together a three week father son hiking trip for us this summer? Because he's like, dad, you're getting older. And I was like, you. And he goes, I don't know how many more years? So I'm making sure I'm kicking Ginny, I'm on pace. I think I'm going to get 500,000ft of vertical climbing this year. He's only at 400. So I put, I'm like, in your face, kid. I can now. But anyway. But yeah, it's a beautiful thing. But that wasn't because, like, I can't think of like, okay, I instituted these three discipline tools and that's what made it happen.
- [26:06]
Jenny Urchin
Yeah, you can't lecture your way into that. Yeah, you can't yell your way into that.
- [26:12]
Kirk Martin
Yeah, it's connection. It's kind of take the pressure off of yourselves as parents. Like, like you said, the living things out. Like we always did around Christmas. I get cash out and we'd be like, okay, we're doing Secret Santa who? And then you look for it and it's like, that will. I mean, it almost makes me cry. That'll take a kid who's like, say, doesn't feel good about himself not doing well in school. Maybe not the most well behaved, that strong Will child, those are the kids with the big hearts. And you go out and start doing like Santa stuff with them like that. Or if you don't, you know, being Jesus to them, man, they will take hold of that and you get to see, okay, this is a kid who doesn't sit still. Well, won't put his shoes on. Fights me over bedtime, bath time and dinner time, but I can unleash that kid on the world and he will love that kid, that world and those people more than anything else. And then you're like, okay, maybe it's not that big a deal that he's a picky eater and fights me over bedtime because I see a heart. I would also say Jenny, drawing out, really diving like I did with that arguing example of seeing. I'm trying real quickly to see an example. But like, when your kids do things, really slow down and look and say, okay, that took an entrepreneur, entrepreneurial spirit. That took very clear decision making. You had to do there. You had to weigh. That's why I'm not a big fan of just like following directions is not the biggest thing. To me, it's making decisions, following directions. You're just doing what some arbitrary authority figure told you to do. But if you have to make decisions, you have to weigh different things. Oh, can I give you an example?
- [27:54]
Jenny Urchin
Yeah.
- [27:55]
Kirk Martin
Okay. So typical with the families we work with. And this is what society does, is so two kids come home from school. I know you homeschool, but say they come home from school and they have homework. Well, I'm just going to pick on the girl here, but the girl just does her homework and she does it really well. Well, some kids do homework because they really like it and they're good at it and it's safe for them. They're good at, like, checking off boxes. And she goes to school, school the next day, and the teacher's like, oh, you did such a good job on your homework. And everybody loves her for the homework. The little boy that we have comes home, I want to do homework. Homework, stupid. It's boring. It's, I hate you. But then they go and build something. And in the course of building, they're picturing something. They're using their imagination, and then they're picturing it and they're building it, but it's not going that well. And then they have to adjust because it's a little bit top heavy. And they're adjusting, adjusting, and they're using that, that ability to see patterns and then it falls down. So they're having to deal with their frustration and they're making all these decisions. But guess what? The next day they go into school, why didn't you do your homework? And everybody's on them because they didn't do homework. But the thing that they did do, they were actually using more thinking skills. So if you can relax as a parent and just slow down the whirlwind down and shut out what everybody is saying you should be concerned with and say, yeah, my son's not great at following directions and being a kid, but when he's with other people and adults, my kid's super conscientious. He makes good decisions, he watches out for people. And then you're like, okay, I'm weighing the balance here. And Ginny, I get to see Casey. He has another job besides helping me. All the reasons he got promoted very quickly are all the things that irritated me about him when he was a kid. Take charge doesn't. He goes in, Jenny, he will love this. He just starts at this company, gets promoted very quickly because I said, I always told him, when you start a job, go in and say, hey, give me any job nobody else wants to do and I will do it with excellence. And he told that to the boss. And what the boss knows is, this kid will do anything. I'm probably going to promote him and you won't have to do the junk work. But he goes, and he's like, dad, they have these long meetings. So I told the CEO of the company, it's a waste of time and I'm going to start taking over the meetings. And I was like, you can't do that. He goes, dad, you always told me to take charge. And I was like, not like that. As it turns out, the CEO turns over stuff because he's like, everybody just listen to Casey because he knows what he's talking about. And it was all the things that he got in trouble at school for are the things that they're paying him money for now. So I'm sorry about the long rant.
- [30:41]
Jenny Urchin
No, it's so good. It's so good because this helps a parent whose thoughts are spiraling out of control that their kid is not going to turn out because of X, Y and Z. And you, you have to notice. What does this show? What, what do these qualities show? That this, that could be useful for the long term. Because we are in a rapidly changing world and you and I are both entrepreneurs and there is not one person, not one who tells me what to do. Not one. I have to figure it out on my own every single day. And I have to deal with when I was like, well, that was stupid. That didn't work. You know, every single day you have to do. I was telling you, like, we went on tour earlier this year. You were like, how was your tour? I was like, fun, made zero dollars. I mean, and that's what you have to do. But no one was like, hey, you should go on tour. And here's how you're going to do it. And here's how you set it up. Like, so the, the Lego imagination, the building instead of a homework assignment that someone else created for you, that someone else is telling you have to do that in this type of world is so much more valuable. So the idea of reframing and looking at what are the things that are irritating me, could these be qualities that are helpful down the road? I'm talking about a treasure hunt in the snow. Our 17 year old lost his wallet and thinks that he dropped it in the snow walking into the house. So these are skills that could be valuable for down the road. So following directions is not necessarily, you know, I think we want it because we like control and we like things to be predictable. But a child who follows directions may struggle in a world that is heavily leaning toward entrepreneurial ventures. So I think those things are super helpful. That this Jimmy Darts that I told you about. Yeah, he was a class clown. And you read his book. He's got this book that just came out and he was talking about how he was a class Clown. They called him the town fool. He got on some big stage. He, like, snuck in on some big stage at some huge event and spoke on the stage and then got suspended for it. But he's like, it shot me to notoriety. And his. His dad, all through his, like, early 20s, was like, when are you going to get a real job? What's going on with your career path? You know, like, the dad's, like, you know, a little concerned, but then eventually, eventually, you know, he's got millions of followers. And there is some grandmother and grandfather who are homeless who now have $70,000 and are going to be able to get their life on track. And that's just one of so many stories. So these are such important reminders. When we're in the doldrums, we're in the everyday. Sick of it. When our kid is not confused, conforming to these societal expectations, it might really be a good thing.
- [33:20]
Kirk Martin
Yeah.
- [33:21]
Jenny Urchin
And these are good conversations. Can you talk about as you're sort of wrapping up here? Because I think this is a key component of it. These are still. It's still hard. You got a kid that's arguing with you, a kid that won't do, a kid that, you know. And maybe some kids are fine to do the homework and some aren't. You've got these different siblings and you've got these power dynamics and all this going on. How do you manage your marriage?
- [33:43]
Kirk Martin
That's the hardest part I found. Right? Like, that is because, oh, man, that's like four hours. That's the hardest part. Because if you have a spouse who's not aligned with you, and that's what happens a lot. I like. I mean, you've heard it. You. You have to make your marriage a priority. That relationship I would have put in place because a lot of people won't do that. And I'm a realist. I. I would say have a plan in place. I like to have a thing where. Because the likelihood. Ginny, is on any given day, one of the spouses is on red. Like, I can't take anymore. And one is, like, on yellow or green. So we always had a code system of like, hey, I'm. I'm on red. And I'd be like, you know what? I'm on green. I'll handle it. Because there are some days where you're just exhausted, you didn't sleep well. Or like, you. If you're like a homeschooling mom and you're home with the kids all day, it's like you're making 150 different decisions. So, like, when we homeschool Casey and I was working outside the home, when I came home, I was the relief. So I was like, I got it. I'm on green. And so we would have a way to communicate. I've got this. We also had a couple things in place of if Casey comes to one of us, you know how they play you off, because he was really good at that. We just said, oh, like, I eventually would say, you know what? That was so smart of you to come to me right now, because, you know, my football team just won. Case, you're so good at reading people. That's called influence. It's also manipulation, but it's also influence you were going to be. So I said it was so important for you to bring it to me that I imagine you would want mom's wisdom as well. And so then we would just pull in, both of us. I'd say, for decisions, Wait a day. You don't have to make every decision right there. Your child is demanding it. Well, I need to know. You have to tell me. No. Mom and I will talk tonight, and then we'll let you know tomorrow. And then you hash it out in private in instead of in front of the kids, because your kids are really good at playing you off against each other. But, Jenny, you know what? I. What just came to me for marriage. It's the same thing with the kids. You have to enjoy each other. It's just hard. Like, how long have you guys been married?
- [36:10]
Jenny Urchin
22 years.
- [36:11]
Kirk Martin
Yeah, you're both annoying and so teacher because you've been around and, like, Jenny's got her thing. See, I love spending time with Jenny, but I don't have to live with her. You and I would irritate each other, and I'd be like, why'd you do when they go on that stupid chore tour? I could have told you differently. And you'd be like, why do you talk like that? You're a right. But enjoy. Think back to what it was that attracted you. Like, go back and date like Ginny at homeschool conventions. You know how they are. I used to get, like. I wouldn't call it racy, but I was like, hey, sometimes tell your husband, especially homeschool mom, Like, I'm showing up in the minivan at lunchtime. Meet me out there. We're gonna have a little fun. And then homeschool can do. Oh, you. Can you do that? I was like, yeah, you're married. You can do whatever you want. If you did that a little bit more. You wouldn't be fighting all the time, but introduce. Did I make you blush at all? Was that awful?
- [37:07]
Jenny Urchin
I don't think so. I think I'm good. I think I'm good. No, but maybe the furthest we've ever gone on this podcast.
- [37:13]
Kirk Martin
You need to go further. No, you. But same way with. Have fun with your kids. Like, whenever you listen to this, the following weekend, if you're listening to this, do a reset in your home. Do a reset. Apologize to your spouse. You know what? I've gotten too rigid. My. My anxiety is. I just have too much anxiety. I'm stressed out all the time. I'm trying to do too much, and I'm afraid I snap at you. You know, sometimes moms will be like, you know what? Sometimes I am a little bit too accommodating with the kids. Will you help me with that hubby? And then hubby is like, yeah, sometimes I'm too rigid and controlling with the kids. Will you help me be more flexible? Like, just be honest with each other? Because we're all messed up and we all have our flaws. Like, if I had one thing, it would be embrace the flaws in your family. Like, yeah, like, oh.
- [38:09]
Jenny Urchin
Because all families have them. And that's an important thing to know, too. Every family has flaws.
- [38:15]
Kirk Martin
If you want to really change your family, we went from, like, doing is on our discipline program. Instead of a behavior chart, I'm going to track your outward behavior, which has nothing to do with anything. Instead, we're going to have a trigger board. What triggers every person in this home own. And so I remember when we were sitting around as a family, I was like. So I started. I said, well, obviously I don't have any triggers. And then that was, of course, for Casey, say, dad, I can pick out, like, eight of them. And I was like, well, you're missing about five.
- [38:45]
Jenny Urchin
But when you start, my trigger is when I get hurt. So this is like a big joke in our family. But we were at this hotel, and it was. It was probably at a homeschool conference where you get a hotel, but you got those, like, adjoining room rooms, and there's the door that you can open up in between because there's seven of us. So our. We did one homeschool conference, though, where we all were in the room together. And I. And I was like, I. I can't.
- [39:08]
Kirk Martin
I can't do.
- [39:09]
Jenny Urchin
There's seven people. We had, like, three people sharing the pullout couch. And I was like, this is awful. So finally, now we're like, we demand. We need two rooms. I'm like, I feel like a diva, but I'm like, we don't fit.
- [39:19]
Kirk Martin
That's not a diva.
- [39:20]
Jenny Urchin
So anyway, my. My son, like, I don't know, he, like, wasn't careful when he, like, shut the door on my shoulder and, like, the. The bolt, the deadbolt that sticks out, like, scrape my arm, and it hurt really bad. And I found out that that was my trigger.
- [39:37]
Kirk Martin
That's not a trigger that I was.
- [39:39]
Jenny Urchin
Like, be more careful. They bring it up all the time. They're like, there's. There's some sort of video going around where you, like, hit your mom on accident with a shopping cart. And she's like, what?
- [39:49]
Kirk Martin
That's mean. That's just mean.
- [39:51]
Jenny Urchin
Oh, I think even on accident, you know, But I'm like, that's definitely a trigger of mine. When I get, like, physically hurt, I'm like, ah. Like, I'm overboard. But anyway, I totally derailed the conversation. I was just thinking, no, I do that.
- [40:02]
Kirk Martin
I'm a man. If I have the sniffles, it's like, I think I'm getting the flu. Can you take care of me? Men are. So now he's asked when I go to give blood, I'm like, okay, who are the wimpiest people? Oh, it's always men. Women can take anything. Like, take blood. I'll give birth. I'll do update my website at the same time.
- [40:21]
Jenny Urchin
But it is funny to preface the conversation, like, I can totally imagine going to dinner tonight with Ark. Like, sitting around the dinner table and being like, okay, we're gonna all talk about what triggers us. I don't have any.
- [40:32]
Kirk Martin
Yeah, do that. Well, you know what's fun is that then you. Then you normalize it, right? Like, dad has his triggers. Got to be on time. He doesn't like him any back talk. Mom has to have everything just so. And then you as the adults are. You are leading because you're like, yeah, we have this. It's not. It's not like it's a secret that your kids don't know. And then it makes it easier for them to say, well, here's what triggers me, right? When I feel misunderstood. When. That's a big one for kids, by the way. They often feel very misunderstood. Like, kids will put labels like, well, he's lazy. Well, no, they're not lazy. They're just not motivated. And those are two different things, right? Because if your strong will, kids at home will appear lazy. But I guarantee you, if they're Doing something adult like, or for another adult. They're conscientious, they work hard, they push through. And so that's part of slowing down to see, yeah, they appear lazy, but it's a motivation IT issue. Like, if I'm not motivated, I would look lazy. Yeah, but when I'm motivated. When your kids want to go somewhere they want to go to, they'll get the shoes on, they'll be on time, they'll brush their teeth if it's do something they don't want. So that's a motivation issue, not a laziness issue. So I don't know why that came up, but just watch. Kids feel strong. Will. Kids feel like their motives are misunderstood all the time. And it will. They will internalize anger about that because now. Can I give you a fun one? Yeah, kind of. It's interesting to me. I just did this one on the podcast. Kids who won't show their math work right, so they do math and they get it right. And they're like, you're like, you need to show your work. And you're like, duh, just showed you by getting the answer right. Duh. Well, you need to show it. But, you know, here's what happens, Jenny, with a lot of our kids. They're really good at seeing patterns. So they look at the math problem and they instantly get it. And then the teacher says, no, you need to write down the process. But what that child hears is, no, you want me to write down the process you use to get the answer, but I can't write down the process that I use because I don't even understand it. I look at it and I see patterns. And then it's like, well, if you don't do that, we're going to cut your grade in half. And it's like, see, I can feel that as a kid inside of like. But you don't even understand me. You want me to do everything your way, and you won't even consider that. I'm not being obstinate and I'm not being lazy. It's just. I've just verbalized. It's just stupid. I got the answer. I know how to do it. Why are you making me do all these extra dumb steps? And so you can hear sometimes that anger inside. And you're an entrepreneur. That's a sign of an entrepreneur. Why are you asking me to fill out these forms? Like, at homeschool conventions? Remember, you have to fill out, like, the state tax forms for everywhere you go, so you pay. I never did those I was like, what are you going to comment for me for $34? It's a waste of my time. Maybe that's why I never got invited back. Jenny.
- [43:47]
Jenny Urchin
Maybe it was the minivan comment.
- [43:50]
Kirk Martin
Oh, no, Jenny. They love that. I did it. The final one I did. What was it like, 10 ways to have more sex in your marriage? Because I wanted men to show up. That room was packed and I was thrown in. It was awesome. They were like, we've never heard this at a homeschool convention. I was like, well, God said to multiply, but you got to do something before that.
- [44:14]
Jenny Urchin
So I totally know because there was a time when were at the same convention and I think that my room was next to yours or across the hall and yours was like teeming with people. Like people are like out in the hallway. And mine had like six people. And I was like, what is Kirk talking about?
- [44:31]
Kirk Martin
Probably the sex one.
- [44:32]
Jenny Urchin
A marriage thing. And I was like, okay, okay, I see. You know, this goes back to what we talked about at the very beginning, which is the showing of the math homework and showing the steps which now AI can do. So there's that, but that goes back to what's reasonable. And also those spiraling thoughts of, okay, if they don't do it, then are they not going to pass? Are they not going to pass their test? Are they not going to get a good grade in the sat? Are they not going to get into the good college? You know, it just starts to spiral. And so in all these situations, you have to really challenge yourself and challenge your thinking and think about where we're at in this day and age. I had read about these kids that were, you know, you do talk about this getting ready, like unmotivated. I want to get my, you know, get your boots on, get your gloves on, whatever. And it was like a bunch of kids together and the parents kind of like, or the adults kind of stay toward the back. And the kids would normally be like, oh, you know, someone's got to help me. But then they see all the other kids doing it and they're like, they don't want to be embarrassed and they want to keep up with all the play. And so there's like these little internal motivations that help to sort of turn their behavior. And so I think anytime you can look for those and not have to be the one that's. The one that's pushing, pushing, prodding, prodding, lecture, lecture, it's going to help. I would imagine that along the way with a strong willed child, it, it was hard on your marriage, but now you're looking back and now you have an adult child and I would imagine, I would imagine that it's got to be very rewarding for you and your wife to look and see where he's gone. Like to think, like, we made it through, you know, we figured it out, we made it through and now together you get to look and see the results of that. So is that something that someone, you know, it's a really long term thought if you've got a strong willed 3 year old at home, you know, and you're struggling because, you know, I just read a book where the, the plot was that there was a little girl, she likes to eat waffles for breakfast. There was six waffles left in the freezer. She was going to eat three today and eat three tomorrow. And so eats her three waffles. And then her brother comes and he eats the other three waffles and she freaks out. And you're like, well, that's kind of understandable. You know, like in her mind, she's like, I've got my waffles for today, I got my waffles for tomorrow. And in the book, the husband and the wife were fighting about how to deal with that. Like, you know, do you come down on her? Are you understanding? Do, do you feel that? Do you feel like, you know, decades pass and now you get to see how those qualities that you put on the fridge that you really hoped would be helpful for adult life actually are.
- [47:10]
Kirk Martin
Yeah, it's awesome. I, I think the most, my favorite parts of life now are when we're hiking or talking and he's like, dad, can I ask you a question about something? And it'll ask me something personal. And I'm like, my son wants to ask me a question and wants to hear me. Like, it wasn't when he was a child, he didn't so much, much. Yeah, it's, that's why I like doing what I do because I've got. It helps to have the perspective and to say, okay, the girl with the three waffles, like, it's under, of course, like my thing. I like intensity with kids. Intense validation of like, yeah, of course you're frustrated because you had this plan. You were going to eat six, you're going to do three today, three tomorrow. And then your brother comes along. Of course you'd be frustrated. But also with the boy is like, there were three waffles in there, why wouldn't I eat them? Right? I'm not like, like we get freaked out. Like, you shouldn't eat your sister's waffles and you sister shouldn't be so upset. It was just stupid waffles. They're not even healthy for you. And then. Right. Like, yeah, and, and the hard thing, Ginny, is in those situations, if you did that, you'd be right. You'd be doing the right thing.
- [48:20]
Podcast Host (1000 Hours Outside)
Yeah.
- [48:20]
Kirk Martin
But when you step back and you think, this is just a kid and she had an idea of what she wanted to accomplish and she had a plan. Yeah, honey, it's really frustrating when plans change. And then you got the dopey boy who is like, there are waffles in there. Why wouldn't I eat her waffles? Right? And it's not like, well, we need to have a long talk about how you should be nice and considerate toward your sister. And it's like, it's too much. It's just like, yeah, dude. So, okay, so the two of you, let's figure out how are we going to problem solve this? Because your sister wants to eat three a day. She's got a goal. You, you're looking at the waffles and you're like, man, you put waffles in a toaster oven. Oh, that smells good. Because that means butter and syrup and for me, peanut butter. That's good. So how are we going to. So what are we going to do differently next time? I would encourage slow life down, cut out a lot of the extraneous stuff, like you don't have to do all the travel, travel, sports, unless your child is really, really good and really, really motivated. But slow it down. The daily life stuff that irritates you, they're probably the best teaching opportunities. And I would rather at times at night, like that whole waffle thing, I've never heard that before. But instead of doing homework that night, if you were to sit the kids down and you were like, okay, how are we going to problem solve this? And you really dug down and say, you know what I love about my daughter is she had a plan, she had the discipline, she knew the math, that six divided by two, she gets to each three. Good job, honey. You had it planned out, you put it in a certain place. What I love about you, son, is that you've got initiative. You were hungry, you came in, you didn't go for the salad. Because what 8 year old goes for a salad? Good thinking. You went for the waffle. Right? And so, so. But I also know, son, you don't want to be selfish and hurt your Sister on purpose. Although sometimes they do. But I know you don't want that. So what are we going to do? How can we problem solve this? And you'll be amazed at what your kids come up with. Well, maybe I could put my things in the downstairs freezer and maybe he could do this. Or maybe we could divide the refrigerator in half. Or mine could be color coded. And now you're problem solving life more important than home, work, or just about anything else you're doing.
- [50:38]
Jenny Urchin
Yeah, that you're learning to be considerate. Considerate of the other person's nuances. Like. Like some people are a little bit more black and white. They're like, oh, look, I have three waffles today, three waffles tomorrow. And they. They're going to struggle with that, you know, the ambiguity or the. Or the more gray. So, yeah, you're just learning. You're learning to be empathetic.
- [50:55]
Kirk Martin
Oh, can I do one more? Yeah, do one more with the messes thing. Instead of just coming in like, this needs to be cleaned up. And how do you guys do this? Come in sometimes, say, hey, guys, have you ever noticed the tone in my voice changes when there's a mess on the floor or something? Well, yeah, mom. Yeah, dad, we notice that you start doing this and then you go miles under miles a minute. Right. And then you've got it. There's a lot of humility in that as a parent. Right. Because we're so like, you need to respect the fact that we paid a lot for this house and I do so much around here. Instead, I humble myself. Myself. And I said, have you guys noticed? Because I get triggered by that and it bothers me. So what I'm going to ask of you guys is X or how can we do this differently? And I begin to problem solve. Like, over. Yeah. Over the next couple weeks, moms and dads pick a couple situations and like, drill down on them. Slow your world down. Say, you know what? We're not going to the soccer practice tonight. We're not doing homework tonight. We're not doing a thing. We're just gonna, like, order a pizza and we're gonna drill down on our family dynamics.
- [52:04]
Podcast Host (1000 Hours Outside)
Yeah.
- [52:05]
Kirk Martin
And we're gonna start problem solving of like. And listen to your kids. Well, I just feel like my older brother gets to do this or he does that. Well, you know what? You never told him that before. He probably doesn't realize that he does that in the shower or whatever it is. Why don't you guys talk and handle conflict? That would be Amazing for your home.
- [52:25]
Jenny Urchin
Yeah. So good. So good. Kirk Martin has the number one parenting podcast in the entire United States. The entire United States. And so you go. Listen. These are some of the topics that you cover on the calm parenting podcast. Kids who push buttons, kids who eye roll, kids who argue like attorneys. If you're tired of being a verbal punching bag, if you're wanting your kid to be a little bit more responsible, a little bit more inside impulse control, they've got sassy attitudes. If you are being judged and you're tired of being judged, if you're avoiding embarrassing meltdowns with family and in public, how can you cultivate a growth mindset in kids who make excuses, blame others, and lose poorly? How do you deal with mad toddlers and teens and everyone in between and help them become resilient kids? What if you're triggered by noises and messes and sibling fights and back talk and dawdling? What about sleep anxiety, meltdown, school, homework, impulsivity, when and where to draw the lines, screens? Kids who procrastinate. The number one parenting podcast in the entire country. What an honor. Kirk, thank you so much for being here.
- [53:24]
Kirk Martin
Jenny, you're one of my favorite people in the world. Look at the all the research that she did for this. Like, you're so good. You're such a joy. Thank you for what you do.
- [53:33]
Jenny Urchin
I'm gonna end it with a verse. Galatians 6, 9. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
- [53:44]
Kirk Martin
That's good. It encapsulates 20 years. Parents. It's going to be awesome.
- [53:48]
Jenny Urchin
It is. It is. You're going to be hiking, you're going to be beating your kid 500 000. What was it? 500000ft of elevation. Beating your kid who's only at 400 000. Thank you so much for being here.
- [53:58]
Kirk Martin
Thanks, Jenny.
- [54:00]
Podcast Host (1000 Hours Outside)
Okay, I loved that conversation. And if it helped you, would you do two quick things. First, share this episode with a friend or family member. Every podcast app makes it pretty easy. Just tap and share and send it to someone who needs it. This message spreads person to person and this simple and that simple share really does matter. Second, if you've never left a review, would you leave one today? I read them. They're super encouraging and they help the right people find this show. Here's a five star review that came in recently from Graham 2831.
- [54:29]
Jenny Urchin
Absolutely love your podcast.
- [54:30]
Podcast Host (1000 Hours Outside)
It is my go to when I have a chance to listen. I enjoy the interesting content, gives me ideas to think about and consider. I appreciate your courage in discussing tough and sometimes controversial topics. Thank you for all you do. All right, it is New Year's Eve. Go grab the free 20261000 hours outside tracker sheets they're simple, but the ripple effect is big. More movement, better mental health, more real connection, more memories. And for parents, it's a practical way to model a balanced life where screens don't get the final word. You'll find the tracker sheets at 1000hours outside.comTrackers until next time. May you find extraordinary moments on ordinary paths. Happy New Year.
- [55:08]
Intro Song Vocalist
Get outside open your eyes Feel that sunshine kissing your skin Throw your worries out to the wind Climb some trees skin your knees Feel that grass on your feet again get out there and.
- [55:26]
Jenny Urchin
Take it in.
- [55:30]
Intro Song Vocalist
Oh, it's a beautiful world Ain't nothing on the screen that's ever going to be this view oh, it's a beautiful world and I just want to share with I just want to share it with you this beautiful world Such a beautiful world.
- [55:59]
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