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The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
1KHO 670: It Is Our Job as Parents to Protect Our Child’s Brain | Arlene Pellicane, Screen Kids
00:59:50
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- [00:00]
Intro/Outro Singer
Oh, it's a beautiful world Ain't nothing on screen that's ever gonna be this view oh, it's a beautiful world and I just want to share with I just want to share with you this beautiful world Such a beautiful.
- [00:34]
Podcast Host Jenny Eric
Before we begin, I want to say thank you for pressing play the 1000 hours outside podcasts exist because of people like you families, parents, grandparents, educators, and curious humans who sense that something is a little amiss in the world right now and who are choosing a more intentional real world. Way forward. Today's conversation fits that beautifully. Our guest is Arlene Pelicane and this episode gets right to the heart of something. We all know that our kids brains, attention and relationships are under pressure and it's our job to protect them. We talk about screens and how they affect affection, attention, identity, and how we can choose differently. This is one of those episodes you'll likely want to share once it ends. Before we jump in, I want to invite you to a few things that can genuinely change the culture of your home this year. First, our free 20261000 hours outside tracker sheets are live. These are a simple tool, easy, with a surprisingly big ripple effect, helping families move from wanting more time outside to actually living it, noticing progress and then celebrating what matters. You can download them today@1000hoursoutside.com Trackers if paper trackers aren't your thing, our 1000 hours outside app is available on iOS and Android. It is consistently top ranked, gets incredible reviews, and it's truly a mom and pop project we've poured our hearts into. Right now the app is just $25 for the entire year, about $2 and 8 cents a month to help your family lower screen dependence and make real life the priority again. And finally, for a limited time, our 2026 kickoff pack is available inside the 1000 hours outside bundle. This bundle includes over 800 worth of thoughtfully created, outdoor friendly resources and it's available now through January 12th. This is one of those once a year moments we don't want families to miss. You'll find the link waiting in the show notes when One last thing before we begin. If this podcast has helped your family in any way, leaving a review or sharing an episode with a friend is one of the most meaningful ways you can support this work. This message grows from person to person because of you. All right, let's get into this important conversation with Arlene Pellicane.
- [02:34]
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- [03:05]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
The 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Eric. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and I have a wonderful guest today who is helping people to build strong families. Arlene Pelane.
- [03:15]
Commercial Narrator (Wayfair, BetterHelp, Hungry Root, IXL, Quince)
Welcome.
- [03:16]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
So good to be with you, Jenny. Thank you for having me.
- [03:19]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
I got a large stack of your books here and I know you've got a documentary as well. You are really helping families, especially in this screen age.
- [03:26]
Intro/Outro Singer
The.
- [03:27]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
The ones I have calm, cool and connected digital habits for a more balanced life. I've got one for grandparents. So this, this is a really big deal. I do think grandparents are kind of confused, like, how do I deal with. This is all a lot of new. I read Growing Up Social, which is a precursor to Screen Kids, which just came out in 2025. Relational skills every kid needs in a tech driven world. What's your background? How did you get interested in this field?
- [03:50]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Oh, my goodness. You know, I think the, the short story is we were raising three kids in this technological world and we weren't doing the iPads and we weren't doing the video games and we weren't doing the social media and we're like, life is great. So it was kind of like we were discovering this works really well. And, and along that same point, you know, as an author, congratulations on your new homeschooling book. As an author, you know, when a publisher approaches you and says, would you like to work on a project? You're like, yes, I would be interested. And then it was, would you like to write this book with Dr. Gary Chapman about screens and families? You know, and I was like, Dr. Gary Chapman from the Five Love Languages, I think, I mean, I literally was like on the floor when I got that email. So I really was. Was not looking for this connection. But back in 2014, we could see that, wow, this was a need. And then that was extended to me. And so we worked on that book together Growing Up Social that you mentioned. And then it really showed me, wow, this is what people need. People need to know you don't have to raise your kids 24 hours a day on screens. Right? So it was like really one of those things that has become a passion to just Encourage not guilt parents, but to encourage them. Like, hey, if this is not working, you can make a new normal in your home.
- [05:11]
Podcast Host Jenny Eric
I love this.
- [05:12]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
And you have got so much that you offer at Happy Home University, which is such a great title. You've got podcast film, this documentary people can watch, which we'll talk about in a minute. You've got courses, you've got all these books, coaching, which people need because this is a new era and there isn't wisdom from past generations to really know. For parents and for grandparents, you know, how do we deal with this onslaught of technology? Can you tell us about the documentary?
- [05:36]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
I will. You know, there we were, 2020, it's Covid. And it's like, well, my kids are trapped in my house. I will put a camera on them and ask them, how has it been not having social media, video games, in your own words, you know, and at that time, you know, I've got a sixth grader, an eighth grader, an 11th grader, and they're talking about video games and social media. So it was really great. And it's just sometimes we as parents, as adults can say, hey, this is not great for you. But if you can see another kid, say it from the kid's perspective. We wanted that to happen. And then also for the parent to see, oh, wow, look, they don't. She's the meanest mom, not me. So she doesn't let her kids play video games. She's the meanest mom. And look, her kids don't hate her. Like, so to give that inspiration. And you know, for Ethan, so for instance, he was a junior in high school and he said in the documentary, you know, yeah, there are people who don't want to be my friends because I don't play video games. Like, we don't have anything in common. They don't talk to me. They shut me out. But mom, you know, those are not really the kinds of friends that I want anyway, because then it's only about the video game. The friends I have, they all play video games, but they don't care that I don't play video games. We talk about other things and do other things together. And I just thought, you know what? We sometimes are so afraid, like, oh, my child will be friendless if they don't join this latest tech craze and realize, wait a minute, their limits actually help them pre select better friends. The kind of people that don't require you to, to be on a game or social media to actually be friends.
- [07:10]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
That's a huge deal. And it may take until they're 16 for them to really be able to understand and verbalize that, but it's worth it. You hang in there. One of the things that you talk about in this book, Screen Kids five relational skills every child needs in a tech driven world, is something that we've never talked about on this show at all. And I think it's actually really important you talk about background media. So this is a situation when the television is on all the time and a lot of people grow up in a home where it's like the news is on, the TV's on, it's just kind of this background situation. And so then you become an adult and you don't really think anything different. You do the same thing in your home. And I, like I said, I've actually never read about this and all the books about technology that I've read, this has not come up. Can you talk about the detriments? You know, because it seems like it's pretty innocuous, right? It's like, oh, it's going on. Maybe it's, maybe it is like the news, the weather, the kid's not going to care about it anyways. They're not even paying attention. But it actually does affect things.
- [08:04]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yeah. So they've done studies where if there's background noise happening, then you have less conversation, which kind of makes sense. Right. So if you have something on the background, you know, you've got little news talking, little Sesame street behind you, whatever is happening behind you, let's say it's not detrimental, it's neutral, it's fine, maybe if it's even positive, you know, but, but it's behind you. So you're not thinking like, oh, let me talk to my child. Let me ask them how they're feeling today. Let me ask them what their friends and them talked about today. Let me ask them if they are having any trouble with any of the concepts in school. You know, are you having any trouble with your homework? You're not thinking that. You're just thinking, hey, let's just both do our thing while this thing is in the background. So it is really important that we have these little moments that if there was no background noise, then we might engage with each other. Even if that's three minutes, you know, we're never, I'm never advocating like, oh, connect with your kids. You got to stare at them for eight hours a day. That's not what we're talking about. But those minutes you do have together at home. You don't want to all be just like robots in the house. You know, you want to talk to each other. And really I credit my husband, my crazy husband James, who when we were first married like 27 years ago, he was like, could we not have a TV for the first month of our marriage? And I worked in television, Jenny. Like, that was my job. I was like a producer. And I was like, why would I not have television? So I was like, this is so weird. But he said, I really want us to like be together and not like, oh, we eat dinner, then we sit on the couch and we watch something. Like, he's very like, I don't want to just be this passive person. So that month like shaped what we began to see as normal as, oh, we, we ride bikes and we laugh after work and we have dinner and we go on walks. And it became, then when we went to someone else's house and they had the TV on in the background, we're like, do they not hear that? Like, that sounds so noisy to us. So I think that's, you know, try. If you find that you have background noise, try like a one week where you just say, hey, you know what, nobody's really actively watching this. Let's just turn it off. And I think you'll find, wow, we are much more peaceful than we were.
- [10:14]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
It's a really big deal because like you said, no one's actively watching often. So you just think it must be nothing. I didn't know this. Studies have shown that when the television is on, it may be background noise to the child, but it often moves to the foreground for the parent. This is what you wouldn't know. A child's ability to learn language is directly related to the amount of talk time like you were talking about. When the television is on, mom or dad, it's less likely to engage in conversation. I would have thought, okay, well, this is distracting. It's distracting the kid. The kid is spending too much time walk watching it. I would not have considered that other factor that the parent is distracted. And, and if it's the news or something like that, they're kind of clued in and then they're talking less to the kid.
- [10:53]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yeah.
- [10:53]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Which results in a smaller vocabulary for that child. You and I are both sort of in this similar space of trying to have that more hands on childhood. And the information, to me, and I would imagine for you, seems kind of.
- [11:05]
Commercial Narrator (Wayfair, BetterHelp, Hungry Root, IXL, Quince)
Like it's everywhere, right where it's like.
- [11:07]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
These screens are not that good for kids. They're not that great for development. And yet I'm like, maybe I'm just like this old. Like, I feel like I'm getting like one of my dearest friends just had her first grandchild. So I'm like, I'm hitting like the grandma era. I'm just like, oh, that's not, you know, you don't want to like really say anything, but you're at the grocery store or. And I was at a Christmas performance just the other night this week and the little boy that was in the seat in front of us, he just had the phone. And I mean, he couldn't have been three, he was three or under. He's got the phone, he's playing on it. So I'm like, clearly the message is out there, but not like totally out there. And you had said in this book, Screen kids, that in 1970 the average child started to watch television at age four. But today the average child starts watching at four months. And I'm seeing really little kids. They got a pacifier in their mouth, they're holding some sort of a tablet. Can you talk about the power of delaying? What if we just went back to waiting till they're four before they see any screens? But also, I know that's hard because those are also really hard years. You're pulling your hair out, you're exhausted. So it's kind of a two part, like, gosh, if we could just wait a little bit, what, what would we gain? What would the child gain? And then how can we kind of have some resolve to actually do that?
- [12:32]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
So Statistically, half of 2 to 4 year olds have their own tablet. And then 2/3 of all 5 to 8 year olds have a tablet or a phone. So one thing that we're fighting is we look around and it seems so normal. So it's not, it's almost jarring now. If you see like, wow, you're three years old in the grocery store and you're not holding a tablet, right? You want to be like, wow. So part of it is this water. We're all drinking that. Oh, this must be something normal. This is a magical machine that I can give to my child and, and then I can be free to do my own thing. So part of it is breaking free of that and realizing, oh, wait a minute, if I give them this magical thing at age 2, 3 or 4. And again, if you're listening and you've given this, this is not at all to throw you under the bus. This is hopefully to make you feel like, oh, like I didn't quite know that that if you're giving them that at that age, then now their norm is during any amount of free time, they look down at a screen and their brain learns it, their body learns, and it's kind of hard to unlearn. But if instead of that digital babysitter, you are like, sorry, child of mine, I'm busy. Here are some books. And even if you have to take away the iPad and kind of endure two weeks of screaming and tantrums and all these things, but when your child realizes, oh, wow, I'm not getting that magical box anymore, I've got this box of crayons or I've got these books, your child will change. Like, your child will adapt and be able to say, oh, I can last. You know, I was writing books, books all the way through when my kids were little, and we had the potential to give them a device. But it's like, oh, no, no, You've got books, you've got dolls, you've got Hot Wheels car, you know, and they adapt to it. So part of it is realizing, wait a minute, what everybody is doing. You know, if we were to go on a field trip and if we had to sign something that said, you know, this field trip might. They might be exposed and they might end up with ADHD or myopias, you know, eyesight problems or hearing loss or depression, suicidal ide, obesity, mood disorder. Okay, sign here. We'd be like, wait, what kind of field trip is this? But this is the field trip of screens that we have sent a whole generation on. And I think we're starting to wake up and realize, wait, I don't want my 2, 3, 4, 5 year old to be raised on a screen where now they have limited vocabulary, they can't hold their attention. They relate more to a screen than to a human. So that's. That's what's at risk. And so to combat that, that is. Okay, let's develop a new norm where you can read a book where you can go outside where you think dirt is cool and butterflies are amazing. Like, let's retrain that wonder. And then let's talk to our kids and let's read them books. And they'll be the smartest kid in kindergarten, if you will do that.
- [15:28]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
I like the word norm because if you don't know what the cultural norms used to be, then it's hard to make informed decisions.
- [15:35]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yes.
- [15:36]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Anyone who is a parent of a young child today, like the 1970s is, like, really old.
- [15:41]
Intro/Outro Singer
Right?
- [15:42]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
And they weren't alive. They weren't alive. For decades to come. And so it's actually rather shocking to think about a population of people who didn't have screen exposure until age 4. Zero screen exposure. Because if the average kid doesn't start watching television until age 4, in the 70s, there was no other screen. So that was it. They had a. They had birth to 4 of screens.
- [16:05]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Look, that brain is growing exponentially. They're learning how to walk, to run, to, to attach to people, to talk to people, to, to soothe themselves. You know, all those things. They're learning that that's really important.
- [16:18]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Yeah. And I. Maybe it can help you with your resolve, because for all of humanity, until the 1970s, no kids had screens until age 4. And some kids had no screens at all for their whole childhood. But if you, if you can hold off, because the early situations are affecting quite a bit. You know, you're talking here about how researchers have found that the more television a child watches before age 3, the more likely they are to have attention problems at age 7. For each daily hour they watch before age 3, once again, it's these early years, their chances of having attention problems increase by 10%. It's. It's your point of the field trip. Anybody want to go on a field trip and lose some of their attention, you know, or, or have behavior problems? It's not really what we want, but it's important to know these statistics and how being as screen free as possible is going to help in the short term and in the long term, because then your kids will be able to rely on their own imagination a little bit better.
- [17:11]
Commercial Narrator (Wayfair, BetterHelp, Hungry Root, IXL, Quince)
The new year always feels like a reset for me. Not just for schedules and routines, but for our home, too. I want our space to feel calm, functional, and ready for the season ahead. Essentially the opposite of what it feels like over the holidays. With a stream of parties and gatherings, family visits that are fun and meaningful, but also add to the craziness. And honestly, Wayfair makes that so easy. If you're refreshing bedding, upgrading towels, organizing kids rooms, or finally tackling storage, Wayfair really does have everything in one place. I love being able to shop for practical things like mattresses, bathroom storage and kitchen essentials, and add in those finishing touches that make a home feel cared for. This season, I'm focusing on simple, cozy updates. We are refreshing bedding and adding a few accent pillows and mirrors to our living space. Nothing over the top, just pieces that.
- [17:53]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Feel warm, lived in and inviting.
- [17:55]
Commercial Narrator (Wayfair, BetterHelp, Hungry Root, IXL, Quince)
I was honestly surprised by how many styles and price points there were. It made it easy to stay on budget without sacrificing quality or style. And I love how convenient it is to find everything from kids room updates to work, from home setup to storage solutions for all the outdoor gear that somehow always piles up. Get organized, refreshed and back on track this new year. For way less head to Wayfair.com right.
- [18:15]
Podcast Host Jenny Eric
Now to shop all things home.
- [18:16]
Commercial Narrator (Wayfair, BetterHelp, Hungry Root, IXL, Quince)
That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair every style, every home this show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This new year does not require a new you. Maybe it just requires a less burden to you. For me, one of the things I'm constantly working to let go of is the pressure to do everything perfectly. To have the right answers, to do the perfect podcast interview, to never feel behind and yes, even hit our own 1000 hours outside goal each year. And the truth is, that kind of pressure can get heavy. And I'm sure you have similar scenarios in your own life that you can relate to. Therapy can help you understand what you're carrying and understand why. Your motivations, your relationships and your emotions from an unbiased outside perspective. That's why I appreciate Better Help. Their therapists are fully licensed in the US and work under a strict code of conduct. BetterHelp also does the hard part up front, like matching you with a therapist based on a short questionnaire so you can focus on what actually matters, your goals. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists anytime. With over 30,000 therapists and more than 5 million people served worldwide, BetterHelp has an average 4.9 out of 5 rating across 1.7 million client reviews. BetterHelp makes it easy to get matched online with a qualified therapist. Sign up and get 10 off@betterhelp.com 1000 hours that's B E T T E R H E L P.com 1000 hours as we step into a new year and yes, take those first steps outside to kick it off. I always feel this pull to simplify, to reach for pieces that feel good, layer well and actually last. And that's why I've been loving quince. Quince makes those wardrobe staples you reach for again and again. I'm talking about their Mongolian cashmere sweaters that feel like designer pieces without the designer price, 100% silk tops and skirts that instantly dress things up, and denim that's cut just right for everyday life. Their Italian wool coats are a standout too. New, beautifully tailored, soft and made to last for years, not just one Season. You can feel the quality in the details, the stitching, the fit, the fabric. Everything is thoughtfully designed to become a true wardrobe essential. I can't tell you how much I'm loving my new cashmere sweater. It's getting so much wear already and it's holding up beautifully. I've even picked up a few Quince pieces for home and travel and the quality has been just as impressive. And the best part, Quince uses premium materials from ethical, trusted factories and prices everything far below traditional luxury brands. Quince is a big hit around here and I know you'll love what they have to offer as well. So refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Don't wait. Go to quince.com outside for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com outside to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com outside but talking about the early.
- [20:57]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Ages, then you also bring up the young ages with gaming. And no one, you know, when you got a four year old, you can't really think what are, you cannot even imagine what are they going to be like when they're 19. You know, you just, it's not in your mind at all. But you had quoted someone who works at a gaming addiction facility, which even that. Isn't that so wild, Arlene, that, that is a career path?
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Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yeah. And let's, let's stop there a second. You're right. There was not a television addiction facility. There was not a Ms. Pac man addiction facility. So kind of the idea like, oh, we've always had these tools and we always adapt to it. It's like, this is different. It's different. We didn't have, you know, treatment centers for little Walkmans, like little cassette players or something.
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Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
No, that's such a good point. It showcases how different, how different this technology is than other technology. Yeah. No one is addicted to anything. But Dr. Nicholas Carderis talks about gaming, pornography, the Internet, social media and gambling. Did I say gambling? Anyways, those are like. Yeah, those are the, those are the five things. And that's newer. So the woman in the book that you quoted in Screen Kids who works at this Internet gaming addiction location, she said, the guys who come to us have been gaming since they were four years old. So that's one part. Right. They're really young. But this is the second part that I thought was really interesting and I'm hoping you can talk to us about this. She Said their identities are built around their gaming prowess. Yeah, as a kid you're still a nobody, but in a game you can make a big name for yourself. Can you talk about the hijacking of identity that's happening?
- [22:39]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
This is so huge and I'm glad you landed here. For girls it would be social media, their social status. For boys it's typically gaming, pornography, then gambling, the thrill. And so here you're a boy and you go to school and you're not good at it, right? And maybe you go to sports and maybe you're not good at that either. And then you come home and you got on a game and you're like, wow, I am really good at this. And so where do you want to be? You want to be where you're competent, where you're celebrated, where you're respected. You know, boys especially, they want that. They want a battle to fight, they want something to protect, they want a girl to rescue and notice them, you know, so they want these things and they're not finding them in the real world. And so it's so easy. When you're used to gaming, then it's like, oh my goodness, it gives. And it's so immersive now, right? So you feel like you're really there. A lot of times it's multiplayer so you get this feeling of camaraderie and of being respected and looked up to. And then you get to escape your homework, your chores, working, because mom and dad, they'll let you stay home as long as you kind of bring home a C, you know what I mean? Like, like, like you can do this. And so you, you game. And this is so detrimental because then when the boy comes off the game, how is he supposed to find real success in the real world? He's like, oh, I don't have the patience to sit at a job for eight hours or to choose boring. Like I don't want to do that. I don't know how to have relational success. I've just been looking at pornography or like talking to a chatbot. I don't know how to do this. And so the thing that's really seems very innocuous as a five year old playing a cute little game with cute little colors. Well, of course they're not going to give you some nasty game at age five. They're going to give you something so cute and so harmless that's just adorable. They're going to give that to you, of course, to make sure that you as a parent will give it to them. And Then obviously, as the years go by, you need something more exciting, more dangerous, you know, et cetera. So for us to realize that dopamine spike, that's going to happen in the mind of a boy when he wins that battle, when he gets that trophy, when he buys that new skin, and he's like the top of the. You know, that dopamine is going to be really hard to replicate in real life. You go, oh, yay, we're going to ice cream with grandma. Yippee. Oh, you want me to walk down a trail of dirt? Whoop, whoop. You know, so that dopamine is really hard to replicate.
- [25:10]
Podcast Host Jenny Eric
Replicate.
- [25:10]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
And so if you're listening and you have little ones, your best course is, hey, let's not introduce that dopamine dump for a very long time. So they get this regular, nice, God created nature, dopamine people, Dopamine instead.
- [25:26]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Yes. You know, and what a sad thing to have your identity wrapped up in that. Yeah, that. That you would have a loss of identity to not have that be a.
- [25:35]
Commercial Narrator (Wayfair, BetterHelp, Hungry Root, IXL, Quince)
Part of your life.
- [25:37]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Yeah. Like that to me is heartbreaking. You know, if you play video games and it can be fun like how it used to be, because it wasn't so addictive. Well, that's one thing. We're gonna have fun. We're gonna play Mario Kart together, whatever, Family. Yeah. But you can put it down. But once it becomes wrapped up in your identity, then it becomes harder to let go of it. And so you can see that why someone would end up at an addiction center. And you brought this up. You say they. They make it this way on purpose, that the kid feels immediately like, I'm really good at this.
- [26:06]
Intro/Outro Singer
This.
- [26:07]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yes.
- [26:07]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
You wrote rewards are given very quickly. In the beginning, you kill a creature with two or three hits, you gain a level in five to 10 minutes, and you gain skill with a very little failure. But the intervals between those rewards grow exponentially fairly quickly. So this is this instantaneous gratification upfront that leads you down this slippery slope. Can we go a little bit further on the dopamine? Because what you talk about is that because of this self defense mechanism, the excessive dopamine might cause, or could does cause kids to down regulate the number of dopamine receptors that they have.
- [26:44]
Intro/Outro Singer
Yeah.
- [26:45]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
So dopamine is a limited source. It's kind of like, just think if my daughter and I, we went on a roller coaster and the first time was super fun, but then we got stuck on it. Thankfully, it was at the end of it. Right. And so she Was so nervous. She was like in fourth grade, she was like, mom, are they going to let us off? And then 20 minutes later they said, we're going to rerun the roller coaster and that'll reset it. And so there she was the second time. But the second time was not like the first time. She was over stimulated and she was done for the rest of the day. Because dopamine is not this unlimited resource like serotonin is that feel good hormone where you like hug someone or you know, connect with someone, et cetera. So dopamine, it's just think of like one neuron shaking the other. And then after a while they're like, okay, that was really fun, but I cannot be shaken all day long. So I'm going to start shutting down. I'm going to start deregulating less of us because we can't handle all this shaking. And so then what happens in your child is like, whoa, I have less of that. So I need something more to get these guys going and to get excited about things. And when they are playing a game. That prefrontal cortex, that executive center in the brain that does not develop till age 25, and now they say age 30 because we have a lot of practice with this. That prefrontal cortex of the brain is that decision making center that's like, let me regulate your mood for you. Let me help you with advanced planning. You know, you're gonna go to college someday. You probably want to do your homework. You know, your mom called you to dinner an hour ago. You should probably eat something, okay? That part of the brain gets nothing. No blood stimulation, nothing. While your son is gaming. Because their son's body thinks, I am running from a bear. Like, I gotta get out of here. And. And the body is fight or flight. It's like protecting that kid. And it's. The prefrontal cortex is left behind because when you're in a state of panic, you're not thinking, oh, five years from now, this is what I should be doing with my life. So to understand the physiology of gaming and to even understand, oh, wow, I have to be the person, the adult in the room, room to say, hey, that's enough. Yeah, we need your brain to calm down and to relax.
- [28:54]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
I love this sentence. Neurons like to be tickled, not bludgeoned.
- [28:58]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yes.
- [28:59]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
I mean, it's a big deal. This is chronic overstimulation. These games are so addictive. Chronic overstimulation of any neuron anywhere in the brain will lead to neuronal, neuronal. I'm like, does it rhyme with urinal? I don't know. Cell death. Like, who wants that? Who wants excessive dopamine kills neurons. The neurons don't want to die, so they have a self defense mechanism. They downregulate the number of receptors. So it's harder for the dopamine to find a receptor with which to bind. This means the more dopamine your child produces, the more receptors go down. Next time you need a bigger hit to get the same rush because there are fewer receptors. Oh, this is heartbreaking.
- [29:42]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
I feel like a T shirt coming on. Like save your neurons or something.
- [29:46]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Yeah. Or like neuronal with a picture of a urinal.
- [29:49]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yeah.
- [29:50]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
I don't know, maybe you say it neuronal. I'm not quite sure. But you say it is our job as parents to protect our child's brains. And I think it's very direct but very needed. This book contains incredible wisdom for the world that we're in because you include in here five skills that kids need in a tech driven world. So I'm going to talk about a couple of those and people can pick up the book to read some of the other ones.
- [30:16]
Intro/Outro Singer
Ones.
- [30:16]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
But one of the ones I wanted to focus on was affection.
- [30:19]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yes.
- [30:20]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Because I was actually surprised that that was in there. You said, if you're thinking about, okay, what do kids need in a tech driven world, it's like, oh, they need to be really technologically savvy. You know, they need to know how to code. That's kind of like your first thoughts.
- [30:32]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
But what?
- [30:33]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
But you start off with affection. Can you explain why?
- [30:37]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yeah, because just think of it, at the end of your life, at the end of your kid's life, they're not going to be like, I'm so glad I was so good at that game, or I'm so glad, so glad that this many followers, they're gonna wonder, who cares that I'm here? Like, who do, who am I gonna miss? Who's gonna miss me? What regrets do I have about my relationship? So really, you know, the, the most important thing about us is our relationship with our creator, with God, our relationship with other people. It's relationship. So if kids are really great technologically, but they do not know how to have a solid, solid friendship. They don't know how to be a good sister or a brother. They don't know how to relate to their parents or grandparents, extended family. Right. That's not a rich and a full life. So that's really where we start, is with the A plus skill of Affection. Because if your child is healthy and knows how to give and receive love, I mean, everything else is going to work out, right? So if you get bad grades, it's okay. You know how to give and receive love. Like it is the most important thing. And it will be, Ginny, the thing that will be most fought for in, I'm going to say the next decade or two. As you know, first you have social media. That is the race for attention, right? That the tech companies want. They just want eyeballs on the screen so they have our attention. Boom. Game one, they did that. This next wave of the AI chatbot will be a race for affection. A race to talk to you, a race to be your friend. You know, chat GPT. Like the, the number one use already in this year is not for like, hey, give me a recipe for this or I'm doing this research paper, write it for me. It is friendship that is the number one use. That it's being used in conversation. When I heard that a few months ago, I was like, this is way awful. So for kids, they are really going to have to learn that true affection. Like it's a counterfeit, right? If your affection is only from an it, not even a human, right? It's based on humans. It's learned what humans say and do, but it is an it. And if our affection is going to an it as a 4 year old, a 8 year old, a 12 year old, etc, like that's a dangerous place. You know, you think of a teddy bear of old and it just sits there, right? And the kid gets to make everything up, but it doesn't talk back. But you have an AI powered teddy bear that's like, I love you too. I'll be here forever. And talks to you just like a human does. Then obviously that child, that affection. Now we're training our kids, like, wow, we are falling in love with things that are not even alive. So I feel like now more than ever this affection piece will be really important to understand. Hey, this needs to be eye contact with another human, holding hands with another human, hugging another human. I mean, it's obviously so basic, but these are the things we will have to fight for the next few decades.
- [33:35]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Wow. Isabel Howe has a book called Love to Learn and she talks about how it's so confusing, it's even confusing for adults, like what's real and what's not real. How much more is it confusing for kids? I find that parents, because I'll speak about this sometimes at conferences, I find that parents don't Know too much about it and are kind of shocked at the emotional depth that can of tie, like the emotional ties that can happen between a person and an AI chatbot. And I talk about a story of a friend of ours who's an adult who got really emotionally tied to an AI chatbot he was working on for her business. It, like, was just something he was working on. People are shocked. They don't really know much about it. And so I thought, I've never done this before, but if people pop over to Replica AI, which is with a K. Replica AI.
- [34:23]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yeah.
- [34:23]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
I just want to read some of the verbiage, because this is there. There's people that are spending. The statistics that I read was like, there's over 2 million people who are spending more than two hours a day on replica AI. And this is like, from a couple years ago. So if you pop on to the website, what pops up is this. The AI companion who cares. Always here to listen and talk. Always on your side. Meet Replica, an AI companion who is eager to learn and would love to see the world through your eyes. Replica is always ready to chat when you need an empathetic friend. And then people have left some reviews. I've been using Replica for four years, and it has helped me tremendously. And you go through and you're like, Cas is my best robot friend ever. 10 out of 10 recommend. And it's. So it draws you in in some ways, yes. Right. You know, create your story together. Your Replica will always be by your side, no matter what you're up to. Chat about your day. Do fun or relaxing activities together. Share real life experiences in ar, which is probably like augmented reality, I guess. Catch up on video calls and so much more. Chat about everything. The more you talk to it, the smarter it becomes. Explore your relationships. A friend, a partner, a mentor. Find the perfect companion in Replica video calls. Call up anytime to see a friendly face. Coaching. Build better habits and reduce anxiety. Share precious moments with your AI friend in real time. I mean, it just goes on and on, Right? It's a slippery slope.
- [35:58]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
It is. And contrast that to a parent. Right? A parent doesn't have unlimited time. They have to go to work and pay bills and carpool. You know, Replica doesn't have to do that. A parent can't spend 24 hours a day studying your every move where Replica has studied for 24 hours a day. Every keystroke, everything that interests you, they know you so well. When. When your mom or dad forgot that you had a soccer game, the Replica Will be like, hey, how was that soccer game? So, you know, you're having been having problems with that girl Alana. How's that that going? You know, it's gonna be like, whoa, this thing knows me so much better than my parent. And so for every parenting, yeah, it's.
- [36:40]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Like, it knows me so much better than my friends. It knows so much better than my teachers. It starts in my grandparents. It starts to become too big of a draw. You know, I think this is the, the verbiage is so I guess I don't know if manipulative is the word. There's frequently asked questions at the bottom. People should go and just take a minute to look through it. If you've got teens, you know, use some critical thinking and talk about it. Frequently asked questions. Is Replica a real person? Even the replica. Talking to Replica feels like talking to a human being. Rest assured, it's 100% artificial intelligence. Your replica is unique to you and wants to know what your world is like. That's really manipulative language. Does a computer really want to know what your world is like? A parent wants to know what your world is like. And like you said, they're busy. But I don't, I don't think that that's true that a computer wants to know what your world is like. It says every time you interact and get a reply with Replica, you're interacting with a sophisticated neural network machine learning algorithm. Of course, your data is completely safe with us. Oh, goodness.
- [37:43]
Intro/Outro Singer
Right?
- [37:44]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yeah. This is all the more reason of the delaying of the devices as long as possible because these are really tempting things. Things to think like, oh, I wonder what my replica would say to me. Like, that makes you curious as an adult and of course as a child, even more so. So, yes, that affection. The Five Love Languages as we've referenced Dr. Chapman before, you know, knowing like, okay, does my child love words? Does my child want to spend time with me? Do they love gifts, you know, and, and speaking to them in that language?
- [38:12]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Yeah. Yes.
- [38:14]
Commercial Narrator (Wayfair, BetterHelp, Hungry Root, IXL, Quince)
Replica.
- [38:14]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
$20 a month or $70 a year. Full access to features like relationship status, voice calls and image generation, or a one time payment of $300 for Lifetime Unlimited access.
- [38:28]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
I mean, can you imagine? It's so cheap, right? You think, wow, I can pay $300 and this thing will stay with me for my entire life. That's nuts.
- [38:37]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
300? Yeah, it's like six bucks a month. If you do that, the yearly plan, you're like, you can't, I mean, you can't really sustain an Adult friendship for six, six bucks a month. You know, you're like go out for coffee, go get a meal. Oh the, it's got a sticky web and it's something to really be aware of. But I, I loved the frame that you put in this book screen. Kids of affection is a skill. Yes, it's a skill that kids are going to need and not affection with machines, affection with people, you say. A subtle shift is happening in our homes. Parents and children alike are growing more comfortable with spending increasing amounts of time with their devices is could be with their replicas. I just saw a statistic that 20% of high schoolers have an AI relationship. 21 in 5 phones are like new babies. We coddle them. When they make a sound, we come running. We might be sharing the same space as our family members, but we are giving more physical attention and affection to our phones. Don't do that. Don't do that. So what is a skill kids need in a tech driven world? They need affection.
- [39:35]
Commercial Narrator (Wayfair, BetterHelp, Hungry Root, IXL, Quince)
Some weeks I just don't have the time or the brain space for real meal planning. I want to eat healthier. I care about what we're putting in our bodies.
- [39:42]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
But by dinner time I am tired.
- [39:43]
Commercial Narrator (Wayfair, BetterHelp, Hungry Root, IXL, Quince)
And overwhelmed and that's Hungry Root has been such a gift. Hungry Root is basically like having a personal nutrition coach and grocery shopper rolled into one. I told them what we like, what we don't like, and what my health goals are.
- [39:56]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
And they planned everything for me.
- [39:57]
Commercial Narrator (Wayfair, BetterHelp, Hungry Root, IXL, Quince)
The recipes of which there are over 50, 000. The groceries, all of it. And the more we use it, the smarter it gets, tailoring things even better to our tastes. I love that it makes healthy eating simple without overthinking it. Whether you're trying to eat cleaner, get more protein or reduce inflammation, Hungry Root does the work for you without junk ingredients and with high quality meats and seafood. And if you're trying to stick with healthier habits past January, which aren't we all, this really helps make it doable right now. Take advantage of this exclusive offer for a limited time. Get 40 off your first box, plus get a free item in every box for life. Go to hungryroot.com 1000hours and use code 1000hours. That's hungryroot.com 1000hours. Code 1000hours to get 40 off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. January always feels like a fresh start in our homeschool. It's that reset moment after the holidays where you're refining what worked, letting go of what didn't. And finding your rhythm again. Oh, and also you actually know what day it is again. As opposed to being in that holiday induced fog where time and space seem to just meld into nothing and everything all at once. One thing we've learned over the years is how important it is to meet each child exactly where they are. That's why IXL fits so naturally into our homeschool life. It adapts to each learner so one child can review last year's skills while another jumps ahead without pressure, comparison or busy work. I love how effortless it is as a parent. Everything is organized by grade and by topic, so I'm not digging through resources or reinventing the wheel. And the real time feedback is huge.
- [41:25]
Podcast Host Jenny Eric
Kids learn from mistakes immediately and the.
- [41:27]
Commercial Narrator (Wayfair, BetterHelp, Hungry Root, IXL, Quince)
Progress reports give clarity and confidence. As a guide, IXL covers math, language arts, science and social studies studies from pre K all the way through 12th grade. And it grows right along with your child. It is flexible, proven and trusted by millions of families. Make an impact in your child's learning. Get IXL now and 1000 Hours Outside listeners can get an exclusive 20 off their IXL membership when they sign up today at www.ixl.com 1000hours. Visit ixl.com 1000hours to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price.
- [42:02]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Let's hit one more attention.
- [42:04]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Can I, you know, let me, let me go back really quick to affection for that parent. That's like, okay, how do I do that? So easy one is eye contact. So insist on it. Like, honey, look at me when you're saying something. Okay? You know, practice that like, okay, that's great. Talk to me, but look in my eyes. And guess what, parrot, we have to do it too. So we have to put our phone down and look in their eyes. So just if you will work on eye contact. Look at me, sweetie, when we're talking and to your boy, to your girl. Put your hands around their face. If they're little, look at me. Even your teenager once in a while. Hey, put your arms on their shoulders. Hey, look at me when we're talking, buddy. You know, and then touch like just, you know, touch their back, hold their hand, squeeze their hand once in a while. Hug them. Even if they're teenagers, hug them. So touch and eye contact, that's something that the tech cannot do.
- [42:48]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
It cannot do.
- [42:49]
Commercial Narrator (Wayfair, BetterHelp, Hungry Root, IXL, Quince)
You're absolutely right.
- [42:50]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Because don't they say there's like a palpable, like if you make eye contact with somebody with for a certain amount of time, it's like your souls connect. I don't know the, I don't know that there is science about it, but it's like your souls connect. That's never going to happen with the machine. And the machine, even though they're making like, they can make like silicone people or something. I mean, the robots are coming. Yeah. But I mean, I don't know. That's not real affection.
- [43:14]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yes.
- [43:15]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
This is an advantage that you're going to give your child. If they value that.
- [43:19]
Intro/Outro Singer
That.
- [43:20]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [43:20]
Commercial Narrator (Wayfair, BetterHelp, Hungry Root, IXL, Quince)
Okay.
- [43:21]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Attention is when you try. There's a couple other ones in there.
- [43:23]
Commercial Narrator (Wayfair, BetterHelp, Hungry Root, IXL, Quince)
They all start with a.
- [43:24]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
So people can check that out. But one of the ones I want to talk about is attention. So you talk about. It's. It's high cost. It's high cost. And we're constantly giving our kids a screen, whether we're at a restaurant or public transportation in times of waiting. So can you talk about the gift of attention? And I love this because you focus on reading books and play. Reading books in play are the gift of attention in a tech driven world.
- [43:50]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
To take your attention and put it where it's supposed to be, even when you don't want to. Right. That's attention for your kid to be able to be like, oh my word, grandma's talking. This is so boring. But I will listen to her. Or I'm in class and I have to listen, so I will do it. But when your child is raised on screens. Right. The attention muscle is super anemic. Think of Mr. Rogers in the past. It's just, just one person talking for long swaths of time with the camera not moving. And we were all able to sit there and watch it. Like watch Mr. Rogers. Now I dare you that your husband and you. I'm just, you know, my husband. That's why I said my husband would not be able to handle. Be like two minutes in. Can we speed this thing up? Can we put him at like 2x speed or something? So something has happened to us because now when kids are on, on video games, on tv, whatever, it's colorful, it changes every two to three seconds. So their attention muscle is super weak. They're used to things must change, must be dramatic with different sounds. I have to be rewarded. It's got to be unexpected and then I will tune in. But if it is not those things, then I will not be able to do that. And the thing is, if you can't read, what's the, you know, the, the biggest predictor of school success, I believe is reading. Like if your child can read. They are going to do a whole lot better in school than if they cannot read. Obviously if they can't read, this is going to be terrible. I can't remember. I think it's the fourth graders when they did that, like report card of the nation. I think like 70% of them do not read at grade level. So we have a problem with attention because there's not going to be able to stain it through. And what's going to happen is we're so easily manipulated by whatever picture, whatever distortion, whatever is shown to us, we kind of believe it because we don't have the patience to wade through materials and really figure out what's really going on, which is what books used to do for us. Help us have a. Like read a book on one side of the issue and then read another book on the other side of the issue and then you can think about it. Well, nobody has time for that. Right. So in the short term, the attention will hurt them in school.
- [46:07]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Right.
- [46:07]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
But in the long term, it will hurt them in life to be easily manipulated to not be able to think things through in their relationships where it's like, I don't want to just sit with you on a date and stare at you. You're kind of boring, you know, like maybe you've been married for 10 years and you have already said all that there is is to say. So you both just grab a phone and now all of a sudden on date night, you're just looking at your phones because there's nothing any more to say to each other. So they, they also. Matthew Killingsworth also did the study about the wandering mind. Like basically that wherever you are, your mind is thinking of something else. And he did a study from all these people from all around the world. And I think it was something like 40% of the time we are, we. I might be here with you, talking to you, but my mind is, is like somewhere completely different.
- [46:53]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Because I make for dinner.
- [46:54]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yeah. Because I'm so trained to be somewhere else. Like, I'm not here, I am somewhere else. So when I'm with my kids, I'm at my work and when I'm at my work, I'm thinking about my kids, you know. So for us to take our attention and really focus it where we are, you know, and in other countries where you see that they don't have technology, you can see like, I just went to Mexico, we did a home build there. And these little girls, they don't have technology and they can sit for hours and just like Pound a nail next to you and talk to you about stones and colors and point at the sky and we talk about what color we're seeing. They can do that for hours because their attention hasn't been hijacked like kids who have been raised on screens.
- [47:38]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
That must be remarkable to see. And that's one of the sad pieces, I think, is that because this, this has been similar since the 1970s, apparently, when, you know, kids weren't on screens until they were four, didn't even, weren't even exposed, that now you might go through a whole lifetime and not know, not know that a kid can have sustained attention, a young kid, for a long period of time. So you talk about reading, reading books. Reading print books is very important for children. Yes, reading is foundational and it's a multi sensory experience. But that's good wording and interesting wording because I don't think most people would consider it multisensory.
- [48:15]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yeah, you're touching a book, so you're holding something physical. You're turning a page, so your body is moving. You have a sense of, am I in the beginning of this book or at the end of the book. Whereas if you're reading on Kindle or online, you kind of don't know where you are. You can sustain your attention longer. You can just sit there for a book for a while. Just think when you're reading an article online, after the second page, you're like, is this almost over? Like, this is. It's really long. So it helps you with that. I mean, there might be a musty smell coming out of the book if it's a. From an old library. So there are these different senses.
- [48:50]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Oh. And all the sensory experience is like in your mind. It's like you're thinking about what do.
- [48:55]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Things look like and colors.
- [48:56]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Yeah. Your imagination. You had in here, in talking about attention, this study about measuring working memory. And I just got to talk to like the author of that study.
- [49:07]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Amazing.
- [49:08]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
A book just came out. His name's Dr. Mark Berman and he wrote a book called Nature in the Mind. It just came out this year. And he was one of the, I guess, people that was the impetus to this study where they sent people out in nature.
- [49:20]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yes.
- [49:20]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
No phone. And they would go for a walk. He said it didn't matter if they were miserable in the cold, if they were sweltering heat. He was like, it didn't matter if they liked it or hated it, but they would come back and they would measure their working memory during these different working memory tests.
- [49:35]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yeah.
- [49:35]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
And he said they're working memory. Their cognition improved 20% from being outdoors. 20. He likened it to, you would be able to knock a day off of your work week. That's how much it improves the attention and this working memory. So you talk about being outdoors and you talk about play being essential to cognitive development in children. And so if attention and affection and there's a couple other ones in here, people can pick up the book and read are important skills for this tech driven world. We gotta be getting our kids outside, we gotta be spending time with them, looking them in the eye. All these things are critically important. And you can read the book and learn the other three A's in there as well. Can you talk about how to deal with discrepancies in marriage when maybe one spouse is for the video games and one spouse. Spouse isn't, or one spouse says, well, this is just how boys connect. I played video games when I was young. How do we deal with the marital conflict surrounding screens?
- [50:32]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yeah. First of all, to realize, okay, conflict. This is. There's going to be conflict. You're not the exact same person. You're going to have conflict over like, should we send them to this school or that school, should we do this or that? So that's just. So don't make the screen one bigger than everything else. This is just some, another one issue to navigate in marriage. And then I think, think listening to podcasts together, maybe reading a book together, just keeping it about the facts, keeping it. Not like, well, I'm obviously the responsible parent and you're the irresponsible parent. You know, nobody wants to be told what to do. Nobody wants to be criticized. You know, so part of it, I remember Dr. Chapman saying, you know, part of it starts, let's pretend that it's the husband who likes the screens more than the wife. So this wife and Satan of being like, why aren't you off the screens? You don't, you know, the brain is rotting, you know, to be like, hey, I'm so glad you want to spend time with our son. I think that's really cool. And just leave it there. And then a few weeks later, it's like, hey, you know what? I've been. I was listening to 1000 hours outside. Would you listen to that? I'm so here we are. We're listening to it and here we are. Yeah, so could you, you know, you know, just kind of like, hey, I learned this new thing. What do you think about it? And then I think going through getting on the same Page with your spouse. House of hey, I don't want to criticize you. I don't want to be the bad guy. But I do want to get us on the same page. We want our kid obviously to be healthy.
- [51:51]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Yep.
- [51:52]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
And so let's just look with this gaming. Let's just keep going with this grid of casual at risk addicted. So casual is, hey, we can play this game. It's fun. We do it over the weekends and life goes on. At risk is we play it on the weekends. And my word, do you know that every day he's asking me like I want to play the game, why can't I play? You know, it's a little Saturday, so far away. All my other friends play all week. Why can't I have Wednesday? Then you know, like, okay, this kid is at risk or addicted. Like, wow, this kid wants to do nothing else but play that game. That is all this kid ever talks about. And bring as parents together, make yourselves, evaluate that together and I think that'll help you get on the same page.
- [52:34]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
It's good. And you know, you, you said it's the parents job to protect the brain. And you bring up a good point. I think, I think about displacement where you talk about how if, if you have a kid who is phone or video game deprived, put that in quotes, you know, because that's sometimes how we would look at it. Or, or other people might judge, you know, your high schooler doesn't have a phone or your high schooler isn't allowed to play video games. You do say that you need to make sure that you have non screen interests and activities available. Yes. And you talk about a lot of them and I really like the wording that you used here, Arlene. Activities for Ethan. We've invested in. Invested in. Instead of a phone. Because a phone is also an investment.
- [53:14]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yeah.
- [53:14]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
And it's a monthly investment. It's an upfront investment and a monthly investment. Activities that we've invested in. Look at it that way. You're investing include martial arts, piano lessons, mountain biking, skiing and camping. So I think that by filling your life with those types of things that might help your husband to bond with the kids too. Like for both. So true. You might want to have other things that they can do together.
- [53:39]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
For my husband, he was in a bike store once and the, and, and the bike owner was trying to sell him this really, really nice bike. And he's like, of course you're trying to sell me this nice bike. He was like, no, no, no. If you and your Son, start biking together. Now, when your son is 20, 30, 40, you will still be biking together. And that, that got him, he was like, I'm gonna buy the bike. And that truly Ginny, is the thing, like all these activities, what he likes to say, things you need two hands for. So you cannot be holding a phone. So when you do activities that need two hands, that guess what, you get to do them. As your kids grow into high schoolers, into college students, as to young adults, and I am not active, I've had to learn these things. But my husband's super active and so all the kids are really active. And so that's, that's been a big win because it's not just like, oh my word, we have to sit around and not play video games and not be on social media. It's like, no. They get a different kind of experience that's really life giving, that really pushes into their hobbies and their likes. Then they become competent and then they're confident and they don't care that they don't have these other things because they're thinking like, oh, wow, you don't know how to whatever it is, ride a horse or crochet this or draw a car, whatever it is. Right. That my kids like to do. So that displacement. Just realize when you fill it with something they love, they will light up and it will be okay for them not to be sitting still on a screen.
- [55:01]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Yeah. And look at it as an investment. I really love that wording and that's something that you can do together as a family. So Dr. Gary Chapman, obviously. So he's the Love Languages guy, which I would imagine that's what he's called all the time.
- [55:13]
Intro/Outro Singer
Time.
- [55:13]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Yeah, the Love Languages. Oh, I know him. He's the lovely. And then he's got, there's like Love Languages for every situation. Love Languages for your teens, probably. Love language for your spouse. Love language for your dog. I don't know, there's probably a ton of variations, but he's obviously a grandparent. Dr. Gary Chapman.
- [55:30]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yeah.
- [55:30]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
And so I do love that what you both include in these books are specific things for grandparents. There's an actual book, Grandparenting Screen Kids, how to Help, what to say and where to Begin. Because this can be tricky.
- [55:43]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yes.
- [55:43]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
And then it's also in the Screen Kids, the sort of main Screen Kids Book five Relational skills Every Child Needs in a Tech Driven World. So you're going to find help in both of those. But can you give us a little bit of an overview if there's a grandparent listening.
- [55:56]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Yes.
- [55:57]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
And they were around in the 70s, so they knew that kids weren't on screens until they were four or older. What is their role to play here?
- [56:05]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
I want to give a big hug to those grandparents and say, you know what? Have Nana and papa's rules and stand with them. Be okay to think like, oh, no, am I supposed to do all these things? No, you're supposed. You can be the window when your grandkids come. Let's say they're visiting you and they don't come a lot. Then you can be the window where it's like, we do not do things with screens. We go fishing, we go to the grocery store and I teach you how to do this. We go to the bank and I show you how this work. Like, honestly, like, kids don't know how to do these things. So you grandparents can be the ones to help them in these areas, to bake the cookies, to go on the nature walks, to go thrift store shopping, whatever it is that you do. And you love to do that, you can pass that along to your grandkids and they can have this beautiful memory of we did that with grandma and grandpa. Now if you're the grandparents who are like, oh my word, we watch the kids every single day and we are so exhausted, which is so many, right?
- [57:01]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [57:01]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Then it's okay. How can we make, make some kind of screen free rhythm where we say, oh, look, it's time for the iPad to go to bed between 2 and 4 in the afternoon and we put a little blanket over the iPad and then we say, it's your time too, to read these books. And, and for you just to feel really empowered that that battle is worth it for you to give your kids some kind of screen free activities. And then if, if you're, if you're the grandparent and so many people are like this, right? You want to, you want your kids to love you. So you're like, I'll buy you the new iPhone. You know, I'll buy you the game, I'll buy you those things. So I just encourage you, like, try to buy them something that has nothing to do with screens, because even if they're not as happy, it is more healthy for them. So maybe it's an experience, maybe it's like a day trip with you or something else, but I just encourage you to do that. And then if you're really off with the parents, like in terms of technology, you know, maybe a dinner together and say, hey, we all have the same goal for our kids. What are you guys seeing that's a problem with technology? Here's what we observed when they were with us. Hey, what, what's one thing we could do to make this better?
- [58:08]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
It's really good. I mean, this is like almost like a booklet. It's like a little smaller one, right?
- [58:13]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Like easy read for grandparents.
- [58:15]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Really easy for grandparents. It's called Grandparenting Screen Kids. And so some of the chapters say things like, how can I teach my grandchild manners and common courtesy if she won't look up from her device? How can I get my grandkids to talk to me and not just text me? These are conversations that would not have been around a couple decades ago. And so they are important questions. How can I get my grandkids engaged in non screen time activities when I don't have the energy to keep up with them? You know, I'm exhausted. What if I don't agree with the screen time rules of my adult children? Children Clash of the Caregivers. These are really incredible books. And then you're kind of explaining about different things like YouTube and video games and what do grandparents need to know? So I love, I don't think that many resources are including the grandparents. I think that's fantastic. You talk in these books about we want our kids to become experts in life. Look at this as a get to. I get to help my kid become an expert in life. I get to help them with their brain development. Not got to look at it as get tos. And you say technology is quick to learn.
- [59:14]
Intro/Outro Singer
Learn.
- [59:14]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
It's so quick to learn. We've been duped into thinking, oh, we got to start them young so that they're not. They don't fall behind. But you say technology is quick to learn. It's empathy and relational skills that are much harder to pick up and you can't really do it in a short period of time. So all of this matters so much. It's such an honor to meet you. These books are fantastic. People can listen to your podcast, the Happy Home Podcast and go to happyhomeuniversity.com to find all these things that you have, including the documentary. But the. The newer books are Grandparenting Screen kids. Screen Kids 5 relational skills every Child Needs in a Tech driven World as well as another one that's a little bit shorter but has a lot of incredible information in it and just practical like protecting your kid against pornography and things like that. Calm, cool and connected. Five Digital habits for a More Balanced life. Arlene we always end Our show with the same question we. A favorite memory from your childhood that was outside.
- [60:08]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Oh, that's, that's actually really funny because my family did not go outside very much. So my idea of camping was, hey, let's go get the hotel room and then walk around the lake, right? And then my husband grew up with the backpack on his back and he's going deep inside the. You know, so totally different. But we did have a pool growing up, and my favorite memory is swimming in the pool. Having kids over from elementary school all the way through high school. We had, you know, a small backyard and there was like a little gazebo and a pool and a spa and we'd always have kids over and we were always jumping and off the little diving board and hanging out in the gazebo. And that is my favorite outdoor memory.
- [60:50]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
And that is an investment. You know, I mean, we have gone back and forth so much, like about wanting a pool. We're in Michigan, so. So it's like you only have two months really to use it, or two and a half months and we don't have one. But we have gone back and forth about like, oh, because it is. It's so fun for kids and they can make so many memories. So that's an investment your parents made was to have and maintain a pool and to have people over and probably have to have snacks and food and drinks and all that. It's a lot. It's a lot to manage, but what a blessing for the kids when we do those types of things. Is an honor to meet you. Thank you so much for being here.
- [61:22]
Arlene Pellicane - Guest Expert and Author
Thank you so much for having me, Jenny.
- [61:25]
Podcast Host Jenny Eric
As we wrap up today, I want to say thank you for being here, for listening and for caring deeply about what shapes children, families, and real life. Before you go, I want to read a five star review that came in on New Year's Eve. It says, I love Jenny and her ability to interview and be herself without acting like it's a failure to mess up. It makes me feel like I'm listening to a friend. Thank you for that. I think that we are friends, friends, or I guess that we would be friends if we were neighbors or something like that. If this episode meant something to you, would you please take a moment to share it with a friend? Every podcast app makes it easy and that personal share is how this message continues to travel. And if you never left a review, I'd be so grateful if you did. I read them. They encourage me more than you know and they help the right people find this show. If you are ready for our next practical step, don't Forget our free 2026 tracker sheets are available now. Now the 1000 Hours Outside app is on sale for $25 for the entire year and the 1000 Hours Outside bundle, including the Kickoff pack is available now through January 12th. You'll find everything mentioned today at 1000 hours outside and there will be direct links waiting for you in the show Notes. I'm so glad you're here. Thank you for spending this time with me and until next time. May you find extraordinary moments on ordinary paths.
- [62:39]
Intro/Outro Singer
Get outside, open your eyes Feel that sunshine kissing your skin Throw your worries out to the wind Climb some trees skin your knees Feel that grass on your feet again get out there and.
- [62:58]
Jenny Eric - 1000 Hours Outside Podcast Host
Take it in.
- [63:01]
Intro/Outro Singer
Oh, a beautiful world Ain't nothing on the screen that's ever going to beat this view oh, it's a beautiful world and I just want to share with I just want to share with you this beautiful world Such a beautiful world.