1KHO 677: How to Win the Lifelong Battle Against Yourself | Adam Lane Smith, Slaying Your Fear

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast

Episode: 1KHO 677: How to Win the Lifelong Battle Against Yourself | Adam Lane Smith, Slaying Your Fear
Date: January 12, 2026
Host: Ginny Yurich
Guest: Adam Lane Smith (Attachment Specialist, Author of "Slaying Your Fear" and "Exhausted Wives, Bewildered Husbands")

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Overview of the Episode

This powerful episode dives deep into the lifelong battle many face with insecurity and the core issue of attachment. Host Ginny Yurich welcomes Adam Lane Smith, an expert in attachment theory, who explains why so many adults struggle with feeling unsafe in relationships—and how this impacts families, marriages, parenting, and overall well-being. The conversation offers research-based insights and practical steps for breaking generational cycles of insecurity, building secure attachment, and restoring healthier, more joyful relationships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Adam Lane Smith’s Mission and Decision to Leave Psychotherapy

• Attachment theory is rarely covered by insurance, but Smith found it to be at the heart of most diagnoses.
• Regulations limited his reach, so he terminated his psychotherapy license to speak globally.
  • Quote: “It was a hard choice…it was, cut the license, go global. And I am honestly glad I did, because I get to talk to everybody who needs help now.” (04:03)

2. What Is Attachment and Why It Matters Beyond Childhood

• Attachment: The way we connect to give and receive love; shaped by our childhood environment.
• Insecure Attachment: Most parents did their best, but didn’t know how to both give love and teach kids to receive love—resulting in kids (and then adults) who try to earn love rather than feel worthy of it.
  • Quote: “Attachment is very simple. It's the way that we connect to each other, to give and receive love. That's it.” (04:38)

3. The Epidemic of Insecure Attachment in Adults

• 65% of adults in the Western world have insecure attachment.
  • Leads to anxiety, depression, disconnection, high divorce rates, and inability to bond.
  • Parenting feels harder: parents can’t teach what they never received themselves.
• Generational problem: If you weren’t taught healthy attachment, it’s hard to pass it on.

4. Practical Solutions for Parents and Adults

• You don’t have to be “fixed” first.

  • Focus on learning to regulate your own nervous system (breathwork, physical techniques).
  • Build healthy, loving adult relationships to model and receive support.
  • Quote: “None of this—you don’t have to be perfect before you do any of this. All you have to do is really love your kid and begin doing some of the basic work for yourself so that you have more to give them.” (08:14)

• Triggering and Hallucinated Threats:

  • Insecure attachment hijacks the nervous system; amygdala “hallucinates” threats, leading to overreaction and misreading neutral cues.
  • Memorable Statistic: “The amygdala…hallucinates 340% additional threats. If someone has a calm, neutral face, your amygdala will hallucinate that they don’t like you.” (06:51)

5. How Early Life Disruptions Create Attachment Wounds

• Serious, repeated disruptions—not just single events—cause insecure attachment:

  • Long NICU stays, emotional neglect, parental preoccupation (including with their phones!), divorce, or significant amounts of daycare.
  • Child’s internal message: “No one will ever treat me better than my parents, and even they couldn’t love me.” (13:19)

• Ripple Effect: These children become adults who are desperate to please, cannot set boundaries, and are vulnerable to further abuse.

6. Insecurity and Attachment—The Core Connection

• Attachment styles:

  • Anxious attachment: “I am unlovable; if I screw up, I’ll be abandoned.”
  • Avoidant attachment: “Others cannot be trusted; I keep my distance and do it all alone.”
  • These styles pair off in marriages and relationships, leading to cycles of frustration, exhaustion, and common divorce patterns.
  • Quote: “98% of divorce cases…The woman had been anxious and believed she was unworthy of love for 20 years…Exhausted Wives, Bewildered Husbands.” (17:24)

• Hopelessness is an illusion: Attachment and insecurity can be healed, and changes ripple through families and generations.

7. The Science of Relational Healing

• Key Neurochemicals:

  • Oxytocin: Sense of love, belonging.
  • Vasopressin: Bonding through facing challenges together (especially important for men and loyalty).
  • Serotonin: Contentment, fulfillment; produced when we feel safe and connected.
  • GABA: Regulates stress (cortisol).

• Secure relationships keep the body in a relaxed (“rest and digest”) state, lowering depression and anxiety.

  • Quote: “We are relational beings. We're supposed to be in relationships. When we are isolated and alone, we are supposed to be scared and uncomfortable...because that destroys our system.” (26:21)

• Medications don’t replace relationships: Synthetic versions of these chemicals don’t produce the deep safety of human connection.

8. The Cycle of Doomscrolling, Phones, and Dopamine

• Low oxytocin/vasopressin/serotonin leads us to chase dopamine, which screens offer but real life—especially outdoors—more reliably provides the “good stuff” for our brains.

• “Nightmare rectangles”: Phones addict us to dopamine when our relational needs aren’t met.

  • Quote: “If they don't get the needs met biochemically through relationships, all of a sudden, the dopamine obsession is right there.” (54:31)

• Breaking the cycle:

  • Go outside, play, tackle challenges together, nurture face-to-face relationships—kids and adults both become chemically resilient against dopamine oppression.
  • “If you put a slot machine in the middle of the woods, no one would use it.” – Ginny Yurich (55:11)

9. The “Catch-22” and the Secret of Healing

• The dilemma: Relationships are both the source of pain & the path to healing.
  • The Solution: “You are not meant to do this alone…We are thinking individually about relational problems. Thinking relationally means…to collaborate with others, to solve your problems together and get your needs met mutually.” (29:46)
• Starting small: Make a list of emotionally stable, responsive people and invite them into deeper relationships using scripts (see “Practical Tips & Scripts” below).
• Even ONE safe relationship begins to change brain chemistry.

10. Marriage, Parenting, and Friendship as “Team Sports”

• Run marriages more like businesses/teams: set goals, solve problems together, celebrate wins—this builds vasopressin bonds.
  • “Marriages need to be run a lot more like businesses...let's achieve a big long term goal together, track our progress together, have weekly meetings on how we're doing, build plans and deploy them together.” (38:06)
• Serving, doing chores, and solving real-world challenges together creates robust attachment across every type of relationship.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “340%: The amygdala…hallucinates 340% additional threats.” (06:51)
• “We are relational beings. We're supposed to be in relationships. When we are isolated and alone, we are supposed to be scared and uncomfortable.” (26:21)
• "You are not meant to do this alone." (29:46)
• “Relationships are the medicine.” (32:21)
• “You only really need two or three good relationships and everything permanently transforms.” (30:48)
• “Vasopressin is released when your brain says, we did this, this together.” (38:18)
• "The purpose of your life is to change the world in positive ways...Your life absolutely has hope. Because no matter what happens, you can hand a valuable lesson to future people who need it desperately." (59:14)
• “If you put a slot machine in the middle of the woods, no one would use it.” (55:11)
• “Chores are vasopressin.” (60:56)

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Practical Tips & Scripts

How To Start Healing Attachment and Insecurity

• Regulate your own nervous system first (breathwork, physical techniques)
• Build a list of safe, stable, responsive people in your life, and try this script:
  • “I’m realizing that I’m an anxious person. I’m really letting my fears hold me back in my relationships, and I don’t like it and I’m not going to do it anymore. I’m going to start asking more questions…do I have your permission to ask you questions more often?...Can we have a relationship where we ask each other a lot more questions so we can finally understand and stop guessing ever again?” (33:08)
• For couples: Sit down, write/ask every question you’ve ever wondered about your partner.
• Negotiate Needs:
  • List pains (areas you want relief), points of fatigue, and what would help you optimize (“best version of you”).
  • Discuss as a “negotiation table”—“How can we take care of each other?” (46:07)
• In parenting and family: Foster teamwork—celebrate joint accomplishments, solve problems together. Go outside, play, do chores, serve together.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:03] – Adam’s decision to go global with attachment work
• [04:38] – Defining attachment and its impact
• [06:51] – The brain’s hallucinated threats and nervous system overactivity
• [13:19] – The early childhood roots of attachment wounds
• [17:24] – How anxious–avoidant cycles play out in divorce
• [23:12] – How attachment impacts brain chemistry and mood disorders
• [29:46] – The “aha” idea: healing is inherently relational
• [32:21] – Relationships as medicine; practical starting steps
• [38:06] – Marriage as teamwork/business for vasopressin and real bonding
• [46:07] – Negotiation table: discussing needs with loved ones
• [51:27] – How insecurity erodes hobbies and dopamine’s dominance
• [55:11] – Slot machines, dopamine, and the outdoors
• [60:54] – Chores, grandparent bonding, and vasopressin in action

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Final Thoughts

Smith offers real hope that not only can you heal adult insecurity and break generational trauma, but you can do it with only a few honest, loving relationships—as long as you approach them relationally, not transactionally. By focusing on nervous system regulation, honest conversations, teamwork, and outdoor connection, families and individuals can rewire their brains for security and relational joy.

"Your life absolutely has meaning. Your life absolutely has purpose. Your life absolutely has hope. Because no matter what happens, you can hand a valuable lesson to future people who need it desperately." – Adam Lane Smith (59:14)

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Resources:

• Adam Lane Smith: [Website & Socials, see show notes]
• Books: Slaying Your Fear; Exhausted Wives, Bewildered Husbands
• 1000 Hours Outside: www.1000hoursoutside.com

Transcript

[Adam Lane Smith]

Oh, it's a beautiful world Ain't nothing on screen that's ever gonna be this view oh, it's a beautiful world and I just want to share with I just want to share with you this beautiful world Such a beautiful.

[Jenny Urch]

Hello friends. Thank you for pressing play. I'm so glad you're here today. Today's guest is Adam Lane Smith. We talk about insecurity, attachment and why so many people grow up believing that they have to earn love instead of being given it. If you've ever felt like you're performing just to be accepted, this conversation will hit close to home. Before we jump in, a quick but important note. Today is the very last day for the 1000 hours outside Mega Bundle. Imagine starting your year with an entire library of nature inspired learning already at your fingertips. Instead of spending your energy planning, you can spend it exploring. It comes with over 85 units covering everything from the science of geology and ocean layers to hands on nature, crafts and geocaching. This bundle provides a life giving rhythm for the whole family to make things as simple as possible. There's also an exclusive ebook where the activities are organized by season and topic, so all you have to do is click print and head outside. This 800 value is yours for just 25, but only until the end of today. This is a one time opportunity to own resources you can download once and keep forever. Don't miss the window to make 2026 your most adventurous, intentional year before this deal retires for good. It also includes the 1000 hours outside 2026 kickoff pack. You can find the link in the show notes or at 1000hours outside.com. all right, let's get into this conversation with Adam Lane Smith.

[Adam Lane Smith]

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[Jenny Urch]

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[Jenny Urch]

[e-mail] welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urch. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside and this is my last podcast recording of the entire year. Of the entire 2025. Kicking us out is Adam. I don't know if kicking us out sounds wrong. It's like ending us out, rounding us out. I don't know how to say it. Going out with a Bang with Adam Lane Smith.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Welcome. I'm so glad to be here. Jenny. Thank you for having me.

[Jenny Urch]

I love what you do. You are helping people to understand their relationships better. But really with this basis of attachment. And so you've got everything from a discord community to TikTok and Twitter and YouTube and fantastic books. Slaying your fear. A guy for people who grapple with insecurity. One about husbands and wives, exhausted wives, bewildered husbands. I'd love for you to tell us your story because you ended up terminating your psychotherapy license so you could help more people.

[Adam Lane Smith]

It was a hard choice. I'll be honest with you. It sounds crazy, right?

[Jenny Urch]

But I do get it. There was regulations.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Yeah. So, unfortunately, what happened was I started studying attachment theory, which is not covered by insurance. What they want to do is put you in therapy for the rest of your life, put you on a bunch of medications, and then tell you that they don't know why your diagnosis exists. It's just there. When I found attachment theory, I said, this is the heart of everything they're diagnosing in kids and families. Everything. And I said, I want to teach this everywhere, all over the earth. And they told me that if you do that, you will be bound by these laws. Laws and these rules which says you can only teach people in your state, and that's it. You're not allowed to help anyone outside. So I have a very hard decision to make. And it was, cut the license, go global. And I am honestly glad I did, because I get to talk to everybody who needs help now.

[Jenny Urch]

Everybody. You have taken your attachment work internationally. So here's what you say. You say, well, a couple things. First of all, there is a narrative that attachment is just for kids. So you have actually gone global, but you've also increased the age awareness of what's going on here. And then you say, okay, you've gotten a diagnosis, but the underlying issue under that diagnosis is probably attachment. So can you kick us off with your expertise about attachment to begin with?

[Adam Lane Smith]

Absolutely. Attachment is very simple. It's the way that we connect to each other, to give and receive love. That's it. And we adapt in childhood to the environment that we're shaped in, whether we believe it's possible to give and receive love or not. A lot of us, our parents didn't know how to give us love in the right way, and they didn't know how to teach us how to receive love. We grew up with what's called insecure attachment. I do not bond to other people in A strong, secure way where I have faith that my needs will always be met. So I bond insecurely and I try to learn tactics to get people to love me. That's really the process. Secure attachment is what we want, and it's what we're all trying to teach our kids how to have so that they can be better than we were.

[Jenny Urch]

So we do hear a lot about this in regards to kids, but talk about how this really is affecting the entire population.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Oh, absolutely. The research on this is brutal. So they estimate that about 65% of adults in the Western world have insecure attachment now, which explains. Yes, which explains a lot of the social epidemics, the behavioral epidemics, the adult film epidemics running around men right now, especially married men, of anxious attachment, anxious behaviors, generalized anxiety disorder, the depression episodes that people go through constantly, that we now take as normal, all of the divorce rates that we're looking at. Everything is just destroyed because we can't actually bond anymore. And that's really the problem. There's a lot of very good parents out there who try to raise their kids to feel safe and loved. But if you've never really felt safe or loved, it's also very hard to teach your kids how to grow up in a safe, healthy environment either. So I'm seeing a lot of people with kids that are struggling to try to teach them. They try to give as much love as they can, but they don't know how to teach the child to receive that love in the best way because they didn't know it themselves. So it makes parenting really hard.

[Jenny Urch]

So this becomes a generational problem. What is part of the solution for the parents? Obviously, this is not something that we could, I'm sure, get to the entire bottom of in 55 minutes. But if you're a parent that's listening and you think, okay, I may be one of that 65%, and I don't really know what I'm missing, so I'm probably at least missing some pieces as it concerns passing things down to my children. Where do you suggest that people start?

[Adam Lane Smith]

Well, the good news is everyone always comes in and thinks, I have to get myself perfect before I can raise healthy kids. And that's not the truth at all, Right? Not even close. You can begin building a secure relationship with your child if you just kind of learn the skills to do that, even if you're not fully secure yourself. A couple of things a parent has to do. Number one, you got to learn to manage your own nervous system. Attachment issues really attack you at the nervous system level. They reprogram you, they hijack you, they make you scared all the time. They make you activate and get triggered. Triggered in relationships with people. Even the amygdala, the fear based center of the brain, it hallucinates 340% additional threats. If someone has a calm, neutral face, your amygdala will hallucinate that they don't like you. If your partner comes home angry or frustrated from work, you'll hallucinate that they're actually mad at you. If they fail to text you back, you'll hallucinate that they're secretly angry at you or abandoning you, or you're too much. All of this is hallucination of fear and threats and then you react poison poorly. All that hits you in your nervous system. So learning to stay calm and regulated in your body through physical techniques, this is one of the biggest things I can teach people. A lot of breath work, a lot of physical pieces. And as you can manage your own nervous system, you become a better parent for your children. That's number one. Number two is we are relational beings. We are designed to be relational. We get injured in relationship, we have to do the work and adapt in good relationships as well. So the more healthy, loving relationships you can have with other adults, the more your nervous system also additionally balances out. You get all the bonding hormones, all the neurotransmitters, everything you need. Your system stays calmer and regulated. So now you have a full cup to pour into your child's cup. Again, none of this. You don't have to be perfect before you do any of this. All you have to do is really love your kid and begin doing some of the basic work for yourself so that you have more to give them. That's the biggest piece for parents.

[Jenny Urch]

340%.

[Adam Lane Smith]

It's a lot. Yeah. Hallucinations, just fierce. I think you hate me. Well, I don't hate you at all. Yes, but I think that you do. So I believe it automatically. Right.

[Jenny Urch]

Just because of a neutral face.

[Adam Lane Smith]

A neutral face. There's a lot of moms who all day long try to take care of their kids, try to nurture them, try to care for them. But in the back of her head is running a program that says my husband doesn't like me. He thinks I, I'm too much. I don't know how to ask him for my needs to get met. I don't know how to ask for hugs. He's always frustrated. I don't like to bother him. I've Been holding on to this thing for six months that I haven't talked to him about when I'm going to talk to him about it. And she's distracted, she's nervous, she's stressed. He comes home, they're not angry or fighting. They're just distant and isolated. And the kids pick up on that. It's not an abusive home. It's stress out, it's disconnection. The kids also don't see you fixing the problems. They don't see you having the conversation. They don't hear you calm and regulate. You're telling them, hey, you should be calm and regulated. I can't be. And that message is not going to get through either. And this is not to guilt or shame parents in any way, shape or form. I've got five kids. Baby number six is on the way right now, and I've been married for 17 years. So I know that it's a challenge and some days are harder than others. But if your parents didn't set you up properly to be able to be calm and regulated with your kids doesn't mean your parents were bad people. They might have just been barely surviving. But it is your duty as a parent now to learn to create that stability so that your kids can grow up in the best secure way possible and then build a marriage that's also going to last.

[Jenny Urch]

And you could see why, because this is the other book that you have. So I've got here Slaying your Fear, a guide for people who grapple with insecurity. But then you also have. The book is called Exhausted Wives. So like you said, if your mind is going all day, all day, all day with these insecurities and bewildered husbands, you can see how those two would sort of come together and form this shaky home life. And, you know, nobody's really thriving. So these books are so helpful for families and especially because it's such a rampant problem. Can you talk about how this starts in early childhood? So you, you say the child ends up becoming someone who feels that they have to earn love for others. They become enormously eager to please and cannot say no. They are frequent targets of abuse by others because they're so desperate for approval and there's no one to report abuse to. So you say any. This is kind of a big deal. Any serious disruption in early life can create an attachment wound, especially if it's.

[Adam Lane Smith]

A repeated, consistent pattern. One little event in childhood is not usually going to do it. You leave your kid for 20 extra minutes and you didn't realize they were crying. That's not, that's not going to destroy your child. If you use the cry it out method for years on your kid, if you send them messages when they ask you questions and oh, kid, leave me alone. I don't have time for this. I can't answer your questions. You're pushing back, you're frustrated, you're angry. And it's a consistent message they keep hearing. Unfortunately, if a baby's born premature and they're in the NICU for two, three weeks inside there, they're crying and learning. No one's going to tend to them and nurture them. They're not getting the bonding hormone, oxytocin, that they need for reassurance during that time. Not very much at all. All of these can contribute to your child learning in their brain. Nobody is going to have time for me. Nobody will care for me. I'm a bad kid. There's something wrong with me. I don't deserve love. So I have to please other people so that they will then pity me and take care of me. I am only worth what I give to others. It's a feelings and services mentality. I give feelings, I give services, I earn love in return, but it's temporary love and I can't count on it.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah, and you could see then how that would lead, lead to insecurity because you're always kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop. I talked to this man one time who. Because when you talked about, like, NICU versus one of the things you say is parental neglect or emotional distance when the child doesn't understand why the parents seem to want nothing to do with them and don't invest time or emotional energy in the child. And in a small way, you start to see that a little bit with phones, maybe a lot of it, right? Where there's emotional distance or there's not the reciprocity that maybe there would have been without this distracted, distracting device there. So sometimes it's like, you know, a baby is born premature, they're in the nicu. That's just how it is. This one guy I talked to, he said when he was 4, his parents had twins. And so, you know that they didn't do that on purpose to him, you know, but you are going to get shoved to the side a little bit if you're four and now there's this set of twins. And so sometimes things just happen in life. But you also talk about daycare in significant amounts if the child is having to compete with others. And you also Talk about divorce. You say, I thought this was a really big statement. No one will ever. This is what a child thinks. No one will ever treat me better than my parents. Actually, that's kind of true, right? I mean, who else? No one will ever treat me better than my parents, and even they couldn't love me.

[Adam Lane Smith]

And that's really where these messages come from, because your brain then maps out and says, this is the best I can ever expect from anyone. Then you begin a series of behaviors, adaptations, instead of working with other people, asking questions. A lot of the women that I work with in my coaching setting, they don't ask questions. They're too afraid. So they wonder what their husband's thinking. And they can never ask him. They can't ask him what they might expect. They can't ask him, hey, can you lay out the top three expectations you have for me so I can make sure I'm hitting them? She just assumes that they're outrageously higher than she can ever hit, and she's ultimately always failing, and he's always disappointed in her, and that's how she lives her whole life. A lot of husbands don't know how to ask their wife for softness and intimacy and connection. So then he's just trying to play games to try to make her happy enough that she'll spontaneously give him affection and warmth. And when she doesn't, because she doesn't know what he's trying to do, he gets resentful. He gets closed off. He pulls back. He pulls back emotionally. And then she feels abandoned because now he's pulling away from her. And they can't talk about it. They can't open up and share because their brain says, you will never work with me to fix this. It's my fault and my problem, and no one's going to help me. So now I just have to figure out what to do and try to make do. And then you're raising kids in that environment. This is how we pass on generational loneliness and trauma to our kids.

[Jenny Urch]

Ah, gosh, it's sad and it's so rampant.

[Adam Lane Smith]

And that's. That's. That is why I do what I do. That's why I gave up my license to do this, because it is so sad and it is everywhere.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah. You say our world is increasingly filled with damaged men and insecure women. So prevalent is this issue that many come to despair, believing this encompasses the whole of humanity. Whole of humanity. Okay, so then you tie this to insecurity, which was an interesting tie because I never heard the Two tied together. You know, you hear insecurity a lot. Oh, you're just insecure. I feel insecure. Attachment is, for me, at least something that's a little bit newer. Definitely something I didn't learn about until I was an adult, probably within the last couple years. So can you talk about how insecurity and attachment are related?

[Adam Lane Smith]

Absolutely. Attachment is either securely bonded with others, or you're insecurely bond. And if you're insecure, then here's what happens. Your brain says, I will never be safe. Anxiously attached people. Right. Are the ones who say, I am the problem. I am unlovable, so my footing is always unsteady because I might screw up, I might disappoint you, and if I do, I'm out. You'll abandon me and I'm done. Abandonment is death. Abandonment is the absolute loss of everything. So if I screw up even once, I'm done. Now there's also the other side of that avoidant attachment style that says everyone else is the problem. Maybe, maybe they're not even evil. But if they get stressed out, they turn on me, they betray me, they overwhelm me, they make their problems my problems, and they take from me. So I got to keep everyone at a distance. Never share my emotions or open up or connect. I will do everything alone. And those anxious and avoidant people, they chase each other in relationships, so they're never secure because they never feel like they're doing enough. They never feel safe enough. The anxious people have that inferiority complex. And the avoidance of people don't believe relationships will ever really last. So insecure meaning not safe.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah. You wrote for. For people with healthy attachment, every interaction is a chance to increase intimacy. So it's like you're either like, getting better, better, better, better, or you're getting worse, worse, worse, worse, worse. It's not really a neutral thing. For people with unhealthy attachments, every interaction is a chance to destroy everything they love.

[Adam Lane Smith]

That's the game. It's.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah, two opposite ends of the spectrum.

[Adam Lane Smith]

It is. Your relationship is either plunging further and further into chaos while you'll misunderstand each other badly enough that it destroys the connection. That's why I wrote exhausted wives, bewildered husbands is because that was the pattern I saw in 98% of divorce cases that walked into my office when I was a marriage and family therapist. 98% of them was that dynamic. The woman had been anxious and believed she was unworthy of love for 20 years. They'd raised children together, and over time, she had gradually got more and more exhausted, depressed and worn out because the avoidant husband thought he was doing everything right by paying the bills and physically protecting. And that was it. No emotional connection, no emotional intimacy. He had never experienced it himself. He didn't know what it was like. He didn't know what emotional safety was. He couldn't give it. And she really believed he was choosing to withhold it from her. More and more angry, more and more sad, more and more lonely. 20 years broken, the marriage just falls apart and she files for divorce. At that point, that was the most common pattern I saw over and over. And it still is.

[Jenny Urch]

That's so interesting because they do say that most of the people who filed for divorce are the wives.

[Adam Lane Smith]

It's about 70%, at least.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah, yeah. And they hang in there for a long time. And then if the divorce happens earlier, you talk about that the family's ripped apart and a child is told and you know, in no other and you know, not explicitly told, but told through action. Sometimes love just doesn't last. The new year always feels like a reset for me. Not just for schedules and routines, but for our home too. I want our space to feel calm, functional and ready for the season ahead. Essentially the opposite of what it feels like over the holidays, with a stream of parties and gatherings, family visits that are fun and meaningful but also add to the craziness. And honestly, Wayfair makes that so easy. If you're refreshing bedding, upgrading towels, organizing kids rooms, or finally tackling storage, Wayfair really does have everything in one place. I love being able to shop for practical things like mattresses, bathroom storage and kitchen essentials, and add in those finishing touches that make a home feel cared for. This season I'm focusing on simple, cozy updates. We are refreshing bedding and adding a few accent pillows and mirrors to our living space. Nothing over the top, just pieces that feel warm, lived in and inviting. I was honestly surprised by how many styles and price points there were. It made it easy to stay on budget without sacrificing quality or style. And I love how convenient it is to find everything from kids room updates to work, from home setup to storage solutions for all the outdoor gear that somehow always piles up, get organized, refreshed and back on track this new year. For way less, head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every home as we step into a new year. And yes, take those first steps outside to kick it off. I always feel this pull to simplify, to reach for pieces that feel good, layer well and actually last. And that's why I've been loving Quince. Quince makes those wardrobe staples you reach for again and again. I'm talking about their Mongolian cashmere sweaters that feel like designer pieces without the designer price. 100% silk tops and skirts, shirts that instantly dress things up, and denim that's cut just right for everyday life. Their Italian wool coats are a standout too. Beautifully tailored, soft and made to last for years, not just one season. You can feel the quality in the details, the stitching, the fit, the fabric. Everything is thoughtfully designed to become a true wardrobe essential. I can't tell you how much I'm loving my new cashmere sweater. It's getting so much wear already and it's holding up beautifully. I've even picked up a few Quince pieces for home and travel and the quality has been just is impressive. And the best part? Quint uses premium materials from ethical trusted factories and prices everything far below traditional luxury brands. Quince is a big hit around here and I know you'll love what they have to offer as well. So refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Don't wait. Go to quince.com outside for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com outside to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com outside January always feels like a fresh start in our homeschool. It's that reset moment after the holidays where you're refining what worked, letting go of what didn't and finding your rhythm again. Oh, and also you actually know what day it is again, as opposed to being in that holiday induced fog where time and space seem to just meld into nothing and everything all at once. One thing we've learned over the years is how important it is to meet each child exactly where they are. That's why I X L and fits so naturally into our homeschool life. It adapts to each learner so one child can review last year skills while another jumps ahead without pressure, comparison or busy work. I love how effortless it is as a parent. Everything is organized by grade and by topic, so I'm not digging through resources or reinventing the wheel. And the real time feedback is huge. Kids learn from mistakes immediately and the progress reports give clarity and confidence. As a guide. IXL covers math, language, Arts, science and social studies from pre K all the way through 12th grade. And it grows right along with your child. It is flexible, proven and trusted by millions of families. Make an impact in your child's learning. Get IXL now and 1000 Hours Outside listeners can get an exclusive 20 off their IXL membership when they sign up today at www.ixl.com 1000hours. Visit ixl.com 1000hours to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. So if it feels a little hopeless.

[Adam Lane Smith]

I know, I know it does. And it's not. I know it sounds that way. When people start learning about it. It's absolutely not hopeless at all.

[Jenny Urch]

It's absolutely not. And you can change things in such significant ways because the ripple effect is that what you're saying is that this insecure attachment is a foundation for a lot of things, like ptsd. I almost feel like I got the impression, like almost everything, pretty much.

[Adam Lane Smith]

I'll be honest with you. Yes.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah. So could you explain that for depression?

[Adam Lane Smith]

Absolutely. It's okay if I talk about the brain chemicals just a little bit? Yeah, that'd be great.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Great. So when we have insecure attachment, what tends to happen is that we are low on several bonding hormones and neurotransmitters. There's an important bonding hormone that makes us feel loved, loved and safe in a sense of belonging. It's called oxytocin. Oxytocin releases when a mother gives birth, when she breastfeeds, when you hold your spouse's hand. It's what compels us to kiss our child on the forehead, to want to hold somebody, to want to snuggle with them. And it releases when we feel loved and safe. Very important hormone. Women are more receptive to this than men are. But men are receptive for it, too. There's another bonding hormone called vasopressin, which does something very different. It releases when we solve challenges together. We overcome problems, overcome stress. When we beat the odds together, we release vasopressin. Now, men have more receptors for this than women do. We find out that this is actually intimately tied to monogamy, to loyalty, to trust, all of that. So we have to have both those hormones present in our systems to feel safe and connected with somebody, especially very close, whether it's a spouse, a best friend, a mentor, somebody. All of these pieces have to have those two bonding hormones. Now, when we have our system running efficiently and healthily in a securely attached relationship, we're getting both of those hormones consistently, and it keeps Us in what's called our parasympathetic nervous system, which just means rest and digest mode, peace mode. Our nervous system is calm and steady. This is where we produce the neurotransmitter, serotonin, largely down in our gut. Gut. It synthesizes serotonin in our gut. And serotonin is the hormone the neurotransmitter, rather released to signal, I am good, everything's fine. I love my life. I'm content, I'm fulfilled. Oh, my life feels great now. As we also have high oxytocin, it synthesizes something called gaba. Gaba, which is an inhibitory neurotransmitter, which just means it shuts down the hormone called cortisol for stress. So it shuts down our stress hormone. So high oxytocin, high vasopressin, high serotonin, high gaba. All of these come largely through our relationships, through secure attachment. When we have all of that, don't.

[Jenny Urch]

They come through a pill?

[Adam Lane Smith]

People ask that. That's. Actually, they don't, to be honest with you. And if we try that, we don't see very good results because we don't associate it with a human being either. We need the association for the bond hormones as well. Yes, you can flood with vasopressin or oxytocin. We have synthetic oxytocin called pitocin that we use for women who are in labor. It contracts the uterus and pushes out the baby. So we have those. But they don't form the bonds the way we're looking for because you don't associate it with a person. Your brain says, yeah, I have the feeling. But I don't have people that love me. So I'm not really safe. I just feel good for a temporary amount of time.

[Jenny Urch]

That's when you have interesting. And I know I interrupted you, but I've never heard anybody say I won. First of all, I never heard of vaso. Say it again.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Most people haven't. Vasopressin.

[Jenny Urch]

Vasopressin present. I have not heard of that one. But the other three I've certainly heard of. And I think most people have. And I would have. I've never heard anybody say those come from relationships. So sorry I interrupted. I just thought it was fascinating.

[Adam Lane Smith]

100%. We are. We are relational beings. We're supposed to be in relationships. When we are isolated and alone, we are supposed to be scared and uncomfortable. Comfortable. We're not supposed to be isolated and alone for very long because that destroys our system. So when you have Insecure attachment and you're not bonded to other people, whether you're anxious, avoidant or the blend of the two. There is a blend of the two. You have low oxytocin, so you don't feel a sense of belonging anywhere. You have very low GABA as a result, so you can't regulate your cortisol. It's just rampant through your system, burning away at you constantly. You have low vasopressin, so it's hard to feel loyal or monogamously fulfilled. But it's also, especially for men, but it's very hard to feel safe because you have no one to rely on. All of that keeps you out of your parasympathetic system, the calm mode, into sympathetic nervous system, the stress mode, where you're not going to synthesize much serotonin. You're going to be scared and nervous all the time, so your depression will climb. Your risks of depression, your risks of anxiety go through the roof. They're supposed to. Now, when we don't have GABA and oxytocin, we don't synthesize melatonin to sleep very well at night, which also means we don't synthesize human growth hormone to grow, to build our muscles, to heal wounds. We also then our fertility rates are going to plunge because testosterone, estrogen and progesterone all plunge down to the lowest levels because you're supposed to not be fertile. When you feel alone and scared in the world, your fertility is supposed to go down, sex drives go down, everything goes down. Now at the same time, your risks of cancer, heart attack, stroke, insulin resistance, addictions, all of that go through the roof because your system is trading short term survival for against long term well being. It destroys you. Now, someone in this cycle doing this has insecure attachment and it creates depression, anxiety states, easy addiction, those little nightmare rectangles we carry in our pockets, those are built to give us endless dopamine binges and just flood our system. What we don't do is go outside, right? And you're big on this and I love it. We don't go outside and breathe and breathe the, the oxygen outside, play with people outside, play games. We're not playing. We're not talking, we're not walking. We're locked in our little rooms with these dopamine binging machines in our eye sockets, completely negating any relationships we should be building. And this, this unfortunately, is what a lot of parents are doing. And it's why your cup is empty and you can't get give to Your children. It's not your fault. It's what was programmed into you as a child. But you can overcome it. I want to be abundantly clear on this. You can absolutely overcome this. It's nowhere near impossible. It's actually fairly simple to fix. I won't say easy, but the method for fixing it is fairly simple.

[Jenny Urch]

Okay, so talk about that. Because the catch 22 here is that the relationships are what create the chemicals in the right levels and, you know, the feeling of security in the world. And yet the relationships are the trigger point for a lot of these feelings. So you talk about how the detached person secretly resents everyone in their life for failing to meet their needs. They're simmering dissatisfaction stewing just below the surface. Maybe they don't know what their needs are. The detached person can't conceive of a mindset where needs are anything but a burden to be born. They felt alone most of their life and can't imagine the warmth of human acceptance. So it feels like you might be stuck, but what you're saying is, no, you're not.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Do you want to know the secret? Do you want to know? You want to hear the aha piece that really clicks for most people. There's one idea here, okay, I have a lot of people come to me and they say, adam, I don't see how I'm going to do this. It's going to be impossible. This is the piece that clicks for them. Most post, you are not meant to do this alone. Right now, what your brain is hearing is, it is impossible for me, completely alone, all on my own, to fix this problem somehow and convince other people to fix it for me or fix it around me. I have to do this solo. And that's the issue. We are thinking individually about relational problems. Thinking relationally means something you weren't programmed to do as a child, which is to collaborate with others, to solve your problems together and get your needs met mutually. What actually has to happen is we have to learn skill sets we never learned as kids, right? That means sharing of your needs, articulating them. There's something I teach with my team called Solution Focused sharing. How to open up and share with other people about problems instead of whining or being silent, really sharing it and then building into a solution, inviting people, people into a better relationship so it's an opportunity instead of complaining about the relationship, being able to build intimacy between husband and wife in a way that's not shameful for either one and doesn't feel sad or lonely either. And no one has to sacrifice themselves and just close their eyes and take one for the team. No one has to feel unfulfilled. We all get our needs met together. Collaborating together with others and showing them that there's an incentive, incentive to do that and then building incredible relationships. You only really need two or three good relationships and everything permanently transforms. But it all begins transforming with one relationship. Even with one good experience, it releases a flood of chemicals. Two, three, four experiences. The more experiences you have, the more chemicals you get. This is not okay. I'll wait six months of suffering and then maybe get a good feeling. It's day one one. Deploying different skills in different relationships and having a new experience begins remapping your neural pathways and releasing all those chemicals. Most of my people that I work with, a couple of weeks, couple of sessions, they start feeling tremendously better because their relationships are the medicine. And the other people turns out, remember that 65% stat, the other people they talk to need the love too. Everyone around them is lonely. Everyone around them is one waiting for this. Everyone around them craves this. They might have a people here or there who are hurtful, and they learn to put up boundaries with those people. But by and large, most people they interact with are welcoming of this because everybody today is so alone.

[Jenny Urch]

Relationships are the medicine. So even if friendship is desperately craved and desperately feared, that's one of the phrases you use in your book. You can start to use these friendships even if you're afraid to make some changes here. Okay, so people are listening and they're like, okay, I want to know more. So you're really explaining this in slaying your fear. A guy for people who grapple with insecurity. And you talk about how insecurity, it just eats up part of so much of your day. Maybe not so much, but it just eats up your day. And. And you talk about the ripple effect that generationally, like, if you look 500 years down the road, there might be thousands of people who are depending on you figuring this out. How can people find out what to do from you?

[Adam Lane Smith]

You know, there's a number of things that we can talk about, and I talk about this a lot in my courses and coaching, but I'm going to give you some specific tips here today that people can get started with. Number one is I recommend sitting down and making a list in your life of the people that you know would be receptive to having a good conversation about changing a relationship. The people who are emotionally stable, they don't have to be perfect they're stable, they're responsive, meaning they listen to you and they respond to you kindly and they have good morals and ethics. Right. There's somebody that follows through on their heart when something comes up that tempts them. They don't go off in the weeds. They don't attack you, they don't hurt you. They don't run away. They actually stick to it and have the conversations and do what's right. Find those people. Make a list of those people in particular. Then what I want you to do is go to those people and invite them into a better relationship. It'll sound something like this. People usually need scripts for this. I'm realizing that I'm an anxious person. I've really let my fears hold me back in my relationships, and I don't like it and I'm not going to do it anymore. So I'm going to make some. I'm going to make some changes, and I'd like you to know what's going on. Number one, I'm going to start asking a lot more questions because I'm guessing all the time and it's scaring me and I always get it wrong. So, number one, do I have your permission to ask you questions more often? Is that okay? I don't want to just spring it on you or bother you and you don't know what's happening. Okay, thank you. I appreciate that. I will ask more questions. Number two, I'd love to invite you to ask me more questions. Is there anything you've ever wondered but couldn't ask? Is there anything you ever wondered what I wanted or anything like that? I give you permission to always ask me questions. Can we have a relationship where we ask each other a lot more questions so we can finally understand and stop guessing ever again? Have that conversation with somebody and almost certainly that person's gonna say, yeah, we can do that. Give them permission to ask questions. Ask them more questions yourself, and then begin asking them the things you've always wondered. A lot of women that I talk to, they've spent. If they've been married 10 years, they've spent 10 years wondering what their husband wants or likes or hopes for or dreams or how he prefers his coffee in the morning, anything. And they guess and guess and guess and guess. And they're always worried that they're getting it wrong, so they're constantly trying to perform. One thing I do with my couples is say, have the wife just write down every question she's ever wondered. Have them sit down with the husband and Then ask him those questions step by step, and he gives her every answer she's ever wondered about. And that usually creates such safe safety and clarity because not only does she have the answers, but now she's proven that she has a husband who responds to her questions with kindness and who loves her and who listens to her and wants her to feel safe. All of that transforms the relationship. That's a good beginning place right there. Does that work?

[Jenny Urch]

It's so good. And people want more, they just can hunt you down.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Oh, absolutely. My website, I've got so many resources on there for people to get started.

[Jenny Urch]

So, so many resources. And you're all over social media too, so it's a. It has, it's. I'll make sure. I'll put it in the show notes. A place for people to go. Some weeks I just don't have the time or the brain space for real meal planning. I want to eat healthier. I care about what we're putting in our bodies. But by dinner time, I am tired and overwhelmed. And that's where Hungry Root has been such a gift. Hungry Root is basically like having a personal nutrition coach and grocery shopper rolled into one. I told them what we like, what we don't like, and what my health goals are, and they planned everything for me. The recipes, of which there are over 50,000. The groceries, all of it. And the more we use it, the smarter it gets, tailoring things even better to our tastes. I love that it makes healthy eating simple without overthinking it. Whether you're trying to eat cleaner, get more protein or reduce inflammation, hungryroot does the work for you without junk ingredients and with high quality meats and seafood. And if you're trying to stick with healthier habits past January, which aren't we all, this really helps make it doable right now. Take advantage of this exclusive offer. For a limited time, get 40% off your first box, plus get a free item in every box for life. Go to hungryroot.com 1000hours and use code 1000hours. That's hungryroot.com 1000hours. Code 1000hours to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. Okay, so talking about the vasopressin, which I've never heard of, I've never heard of. It's interesting to me, Adam, because tell me if I'm understanding this correctly. So sometimes I feel like with marriage and you've got six kids, we've got five, so it's a lot, right? And we're, you know, we're about to head out of town. And especially in those types of environments, there's just so many decisions and there's so many, like, little things to figure out and you're out of your element. And to me, that has always seemed like a negative thing. But if the vasopressin is really about, I guess, sort of attacking things together, am I thinking about that? Right? Like, actually, this is a good thing that you have problems to solve together.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Yes. Life has given us so many problems to solve together. But here's. Can I say something a little controversial?

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Marriages need to be run a lot more like businesses. We need to run them a lot less. Like, let's give each other good feelings until one of us dies and run it a lot more like, let's achieve a big long term goal together, track our progress together, have weekly meetings on how we're doing, build plans and deploy them together. When you have holiday events, you should sit down as a couple, plan them out, follow through on them, and every time you have a success, you should high five and say, we did this. Vasopressin is released when your brain says, we did this, this together. The problem for most couples is they go through stress and they each feel like they're handling it alone. They don't celebrate their wins, and they feel like they're just barely surviving dayto day. So their brain doesn't tag that we are trusted allies. It's. We are completely different people fighting different wars and not even helping. You're not helping me and I don't know how to help you. And we're divided. When we work together as a unified team, more like a business, we get that vasopressin mix. We also feel a lot safer because we feel like we're not alone anymore. And then our brain rewards us with fulfilling monogamous desire, monogamous bonding, mate protection. It has loyalty in there. It really builds trust, and then it opens the pathway for more intimacy. We desire more intimacy with our partners. Most couples who come to me, I will try not be too graphic, but most couples who come to me and they have a very cold, cold experience in the bedroom most of the time. Couples therapists will send you on couples dates to try to build oxytocin. But your brain doesn't really want to connect to that person because it doesn't feel like you're a team. When we begin with vasopressin building, instead it roars back to life, but also it's sustainable. Your brain says you are My beloved, trusted ally. You are my friend. You are my companion for life. And I can rest in your presence because you help me be safer in this world. And of course, that opens the door for more intimacy and more desire for both man and wife. So that's a pathway we have to follow.

[Jenny Urch]

Okay, Adam, why is nobody talking about Basil? Present? I can't even say it.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Very few people know about it. You know, I've been talking about it for a few years, honestly. And a lot of what I know comes from various sources, but especially the works of Dr. Sue Carter. She's an absolute genius. She's one. One of the leading experts in the entire world on vasopressin. There are so many pieces of research being done about these. For example, did you know we do a lot of research on rodents because rodent brains are remarkably similar to humans. And if we take prairie voles in particular, and we flood cheating prairie voles with vasopressin, they become fiercely monogamous and protective and loyal to their prairie volume vole partner. Now, if we take a prairie vole who is otherwise faithful, loving and caring, and we take away their vasopressin, block their receptor sites artificially, they very quickly begin cheating and become promiscuous. We know this through research. We've documented this. It's very well known. But what most people know vasopressin for in the medical community is it's a diuretic. That's what they mostly know about it. The research is starting to. Yeah, it flushes out water retention from your kidneys and things like this. So it flushes it out, but what a difference. Correct. It does a lot of things. But when we have vasopressin, when we release vasopressin by overcoming stress and it floods through a system and we associate it with one person. You did this. Or a group of people. We did this. This is what the military uses to bond units together. This is why, when you see World War II veterans wheeled on stage and they're in their late 90s, and they get up sobbing and they hug each other, that's vasopressin residual from decades ago from surviving together. This is a basic human behavior, especially found in men, but also in women. Very important that we have this very well documented, but almost no one knows about it. I've been talking about it for about three to four years now. And all of a sudden you'll feel. And you'll find a few people that talk about it on the Internet now because they've watched my material, but very few People actually learn or apply this.

[Jenny Urch]

Well, this is the key. I mean, I think when we look at parenting as an example, it's like, oh, my gosh, this is so overwhelming and annoying and we've got all these problems to solve and no one's shoes fit and what are we going to do with this kid? And this one's getting in trouble and it, you know, and it's like, it's this overwhelming avalanche of things. But if you look at it as like, we're a team, we're going to figure this out together. What a different way to look at it and to know that this is contributing chemically to your attachment, it's building.

[Adam Lane Smith]

A more robust system. So I tell husbands this, they come to me a lot, right? And I say, look, do you want to take care of your kids? Yeah. Take care of your wife. That means a couple things. One, if she's stressed out, your kids are probably stressed out. So bring her in at least once a week, sit down with her and listen to her and say, what problems are you facing that I can help you overcome? And she'll list them. Because wives are wonderful in a good way at finding the problem problems, finding where the system isn't working. That's their job. And then they need to bring that to you and you need to take it seriously and build solutions together and help her deploy them. Me and my wife have weekly sit downs where she brings those challenges to me and I told her that's her job because then I have to find solutions. And we apply them and build them together, then we deploy them and she reports to me how they go. And that's the great piece. Now, another thing husbands must be doing is co regulating with their wife. Again, if your wife is stressed, your kids are stressed, there's a whole way that you can hold her and help her release oxytocin in a flood through her system that is so intense her knees will weaken. You'll have to hold her up. It's just a very specific type of hugging and embracing her where she floods with it. And then gaba goes up, her cortisol plunges. And for the next several hours, she is resilient against stress. She's smiling, she's relaxed. She is the wife and mother that she wants to be. Very hard for a wife to receive that level of care and not be the woman that she wants to be. But it's also very hard for a wife to be who she wants if her bucket is completely empty.

[Jenny Urch]

This makes me think about how when you serve Together as a family or in a group. Like you've got friendships. This is a better way to deepen your friendships because once again, this chemical that no one is talking about would be released.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Yes. It changes everything. It really is just a system.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah. It would change how you parent. It would change how you run your family. It would change how you run your friendships. Like don't just always go out for drinks or don't just always sit around and watch the Bachelor. Like do things together, accomplish things together.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Right. You're probably going to have to go outside to do this because doing it alone in your house, you can do it and do tasks. But fathers need to initiate their sons into vasopressin bonding. The fathers are required to teach their sons, you can solve problems with other people. Let me show you how to collectively problem solve. We live in a world where at least a quarter of children grow up without a father at all. Right. Right now this is horrifying. But more of them have checked out dads or dads who only see them on weekends for various reasons. Or fathers who have passed away, fathers who are just gone. Fathers who who live in other states. So many children today are growing up without an adequate father in their life. Sometimes through no fault of the father himself. But they just can't bond. Dads need to be initiating children into collective problem solving. Mothers need to be initiating children into co regulation with other humans. You can feel safe with other people and you can solve problems with other people. Two things that we've talked about on this podcast already that, that most people don't know how to do.

[Jenny Urch]

This is so eye opening. Wow. I already got so much out of the book and then I'm getting so much more out of the conversation as well. Okay, talk about this. You say there exists in every relationship. This is similar to the business idea. There exists in every relationship a negotiation table. And you use the phrase sit down and hammer out a trade which to your point of run your relationships like a business. Can you talk about what that might look like?

[Adam Lane Smith]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, my business partner have been a model for this. And we actually go into corporations and companies and businesses and teach the owners, the board of directors and the executives how to deploy this successfully in their company. But it works for husbands and wives as well. You have to negotiate for your needs to get met. This is not a transactional system, by the way. It's not, I will give you X and you will give me Y. That's not how this operation operates. It's hey, look, we're on the same team. We want the same things, right? We work for the same company. It would be a shame if this company went bankrupt because we both will lose. So for me to be able to do my job, for me to have capacity to take care of you and take care of our family, I would need A, B and C. What capacity do you have to meet my needs? Number one. And what might you need from me in return? To take care of your side. How can we take care of each other? Not a transaction, not a one for one. Not exploitative, not cold. How do I take care of you? And how can you take care of me so that we can both get over there together? It's a negotiation now. Most people are afraid and ashamed to do this because they don't know what their needs are. They don't know what they're allowed to ask for. They're afraid that other people will yell at them if they ask for things. Anxiously attached people are going to say, well, if I ask for something, they're going to look at me and say, you don't deserve that. In fact, I hate you. I've just realized that right now I'm out of of here. And it will destroy the relationship. So they're afraid to sit down and talk about needs or exchange needs or negotiate. You have to. That's the only way to build a successful relationship.

[Jenny Urch]

What if you don't know what your needs are?

[Adam Lane Smith]

Ah, I hear that a lot. Do you want me to go through the system? I teach people to find their needs. There's three core areas, okay? There's three areas of needs that people can find. One is places that you are in pain, you have a need to not be in pain. This doesn't mean complete, mindless euphoric life, but the places you're in pain, your system is telling you, hey, attention, something is off over here. So it could be emotional starvation. It could be that you feel lonely all the time. It could be that you're afraid and scared. That's a type of pain as well. Where are you in pain in your life? That's a level one need. Okay? Level two need is sustainability. Where are you exhausted? Where are you giving so much you have no capacity? Where are you giving so much it hurts? Where are you at a deficit? What relationships are sucking you dry? Where are you not getting your needs met? That the other person may not even know that they're taking that much from you and that you haven't asked them to feed into you? Again, emotional needs. Emotional starvation. I need More emotional connection with my husband. I need to get a hug. I need to talk to him at the end of the day. I need him to share with me. I need my wife to be more affectionate to me. I just need her to want to see me. I need her to give me a hug at the end of the day. I need her to be happy and respectful toward me, whatever it might be. Sustainability, right? Fatigue. Look for fatigue. And level three is what most people can't even get to because they don't know it exists, is optimization. What would I need to become the best version of me? What would I need to reach my goals? How many hugs a day would I need? How much love would I need? How much care do I need? How much support do I need? What do you think? What. What can you give to me to help me get over there so that I can also give back to you to help you get over there? How do we take the best care of each other beyond pain, beyond fatigue, but giving each other a surplus every day? What do we do there? Right? That's level three. And you can't really fulfill those needs until the lower levels are hit. You have to be taking care of those three areas. So where am I in pain, where am I exhausted and fatigued, and where am I feeling frustrated and blocked from being the person I want to be? Those are the three areas you can find your needs.

[Jenny Urch]

So if you're in survival mode, I don't think you can think about what would the optimization part be. But that's where you really showing up in the world as the person that changes the world now whatever your giftings.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Are, that's where you can become the best version of you.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's really helpful. So you talk about insecurity and attachment and you talk about all the things that that can be affected. So you're talking about this can take up a whole lot of your time. One of the things you said was perhaps the worst part about insecurity is just how much time it eats up in your average day. It can affect your relationships, it can affect rippling sets of descendants. Like, you talked about how your impact, which I would imagine is way more than this now. But you were like, at one point you determined your impact and you're like, it's 44,000 people. But now with the Internet is probably like 44 million people because there's this big ripple effect. But if you're thinking just, you know, certain generations down the road, this insecurity really can affect or. Or Secure attachment in the positive way is going to affect a lot of people. I would not have considered this, though. Adam, you talk about how if there's insecurity there, there's going to be a struggle to engage with hobbies. And I kind of thought this was a big deal because it's such a screen saturated world. And it's also a world where we're really driving ourselves to sort of the edge of our capacity with sourcing our kids with different activities that they're really hardly any time for hobbies anyway. But hobbies make us feel better. And so it would really be a double whammy. Right. Like, it's like we're already so busy. And also, if you are insecure, you may not engage with hobbies, you say, because they believe their work is not of any worth. So can you talk about that part of it? I was really surprised to see that in the book, but I think it's really important.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Yeah. So when we're missing a lot of the brain chemistry, the oxytocin, the vasopressin, the gaba, the serotonin, and we're flooded with unregulated cortisol, all that's really left is dopamine. So we binge dopamine, which is why everything is dopamine based. You put your kids in front of a screen, they're just flooded with dopamine. They're on the phones, on the tablets. Anything that we do in inside quite often, a lot of the time nowadays is dopamine focused. Very hard to have serotonin inside the home unless you're actively trying to make yourself do it. One wonderful thing about your work and getting people out into the world, out into life, is it's easier to get serotonin based activities outdoors. I have a little archery range on my property that I love to just go shoot arrows and just fire them off one after another. Another breathe, let my mind go. A lot of serotonin. My kids have a soccer goal. They love to play soccer, they love playing, running, screaming, breathing in the sunlight. All of that builds serotonin more than it does dopamine. Dopamine is just meant to be a small little bit of salt just to kind of sprinkle on. And your system says, oh, that felt good. I should remember that in the future. A lot of our systems we're looking at, right, I think of husbands with adult material, that adult material is 21 times more powerful than an actual human experience of dopamine alone. So if you're just comparing dopamine you are less likely to want to engage with your wife than you are with a screen, for example. Yeah, but when we combine oxytocin, vasopressin, GABA, and serotonin with a little sprinkle of dopamine, dopamine alone can't compete anymore. All of the of this is so much more fulfilling. So getting ourselves outside, doing activities and hobbies outside, or even reading a book, writing something, painting something, creative pursuits, teaching your children a skill, learning a skill, yourself, doing something more engaging. That is lower dopamine and higher effort usually builds serotonin so that you're actually building what you want. Hobbies should release serotonin, maybe a little bit of dopamine, but mostly serotonin. Focus on those experiences and your whole system begins to improve. But again, if you're always riding the edge of panic and feel like you're not okay and you're never gonna be safe, you're probably gonna reach for the dopamine instead of putting in the effort to build the serotonin.

[Jenny Urch]

Wow. Wow, that's huge. That's why we're constantly going to our phones.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Yes, yes. That's why we have phantom vibration, actually. So most people today, interestingly, they'll feel their phone vibrate in their pocket, and it doesn't, but they'll feel it. And then their brain goes, oh, no. And they pull it out and they say, well, no one texted me. Well, while I'm here. Our brains have actually trained us when they get low on dopamine to phantom vibrate and then have us dive into the phone. It's a very weird experience because we're craving that constant dopamine release. The moment we go to bed at night, we finally put our phone down. The moment we wake up, we grab our phone, we the bathroom on our phone, we're in the car on our phone, we're at work on our phone, endlessly scooping up every drop of dopamine we can get. Which sounds horrifying, and it is. But again, remember, there is no, no balance out for the human experience. When you get high oxytocin, high vasopressin, high serotonin, high gaba, and a little bit of dopamine and balance out your cortisol. All of a sudden, all that dopamine addiction is no longer attractive. I'm sure you, you've. You've heard probably plenty of stories from people that listen to your material, read your book and everything. They go out and they play with their kids, Play, play, play. And all of a sudden, the kids don't want the video games as much. They don't want the screens as much because they're chemically resilient against the dopamine obsession, because they have everything else now needed. If they don't get the needs met biochemically through relationships, all of a sudden, the dopamine obsession is right there.

[Jenny Urch]

And that's right. If you put a slot machine in the middle of the woods, no one would use it.

[Adam Lane Smith]

No one would care. Yeah, but if you put a slot machine in a big, giant city where everyone's depressed and miserable, and then you advertise to people who hate their life and you show them they can come run away and dive into it. Great. Absolutely. That's how you build addiction. Interestingly, the people who built slot machines were hired to build cell phones.

[Jenny Urch]

Whoa. I tell people, Adam. And it's. It's not because I'm smart, but it's just because I was a. I was. I struggled as a mom, as a young mom when our kids, and our kids are 17 down to nine, but when we've got five, and when they were little, I just had a really hard time making it through the day and meeting their needs, and we started to go outside more regularly. That's sort of the basis of what's going on here. And it changed motherhood, first for me and then in. In turn, it changed childhood. And I think our kids have had a very different childhood because we spent all of this time outside. It's historically normal. I don't think it's an excessive amount. I think it's what kids used to spend outside. And I tell people a lot, like, we don't have a lot of the modern day parenting problems. And part of the podcast is learning why. Like, you know, I read these books and I'm like, oh, that's why, you know, I. I have the end result, but I don't necessarily know the scientific reason. And this, I didn't know this is why. It's because it changes you. I always say our best days are the days where we run out of time for screens. But more than that, to your point, nobody. They like screens. Like, our kids will like to play video game here and there. We watch Survivor, but, like, nobody cares all that much. And you just explained why.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Yes. It's not, it's. It's not their nervous system desperately trying to cope with stress and terror every day so they have to escape into those little dopamine machines. It's, hey, you know what? I've done everything else I feel Great. I would love just a sprinkle on top of my day. Let's play a video game. Let's watch a movie. Let's have a fun little activity. Dopamine is a little bit of salt. You're not eating a bucket of salt every day because you're starving. You're not hungry anymore. You sprinkle a little bit of salt on top just to have a little bit of flavor at the end of the day. That's what dopamine is meant to be.

[Jenny Urch]

It reminds me of being like in 1988, and we would watch Full House, you know, or 1994 whenever that show was out. I don't even know, you know? Yeah, it was just a little thing at the end of the day, you're, like, kind of bummed when it was over, because you got to wait another week for another episode to come out, but you didn't care too much. And now we're. It's like there's a. There's a trapping here. You're trapped. But the vasopressin part is really interesting because if a lot of things that you do outdoors, I guess if you're going as a family, like, if there's a bunch of kids playing, they're just gonna go play. Everybody has a goal, though, right? Like, you're gonna play tag. You're gonna go on a hike, you're going to build a fort, you're going to figure out how to climb the tree. You're going to make something. You're going to have a mud kitchen. There's so many things that are. I guess the phraseology used was common, that have common goals.

[Adam Lane Smith]

When you can work on your goals together.

[Jenny Urch]

Gosh, you've ex. You've explained the whole thing.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Well, thank you. This is what me and my team call attachment science. So it is the science of how humans connect. It's how we meant to live. We are relational beings. When our relationships are sick, we are sick. When our relationships do well, we do well. It's a very simple concept once you boil it down.

[Jenny Urch]

Yeah. People need to know about everything that you have to offer. I'll make sure. I'll put all the links in the show notes. This is remarkable.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

[Jenny Urch]

The book I have is Slaying your Fear, a guide for people who grapple with insecurity. You talk about. Do you respect yourself? You talk about being in a lifelong battle against yourself, and you say, invest in yourself as much as you invest in others. Without improving yourself and growing, you cannot hope to Offer better love to others down the line. And so I think that you lay it out. It's like, you know, you've got to find your two or three people. That's not that many people you gave the script. You talk about how to heal your marriage, relationships, or at least places to start. How do you figure out what your needs are? And you said this, you are unlikely to change on your own. If you knew the answers, you'd likely have applied them by now. And so, goodness is this life changing information. Do not be afraid to engage with other people. This, in fact, is the only thing that makes life worthwhile. The purpose of your life is to change the world in positive ways so that Those who live 500 years from now, whether they remember your name or not, will be better off. Because you live now. Your life absolutely has meaning. Your life absolutely has purpose. Your life absolutely has hope. Because no matter what happens, you can hand a valuable lesson to future people who need it desperately. My goodness. It's like you lay out the purpose, you lay out the why, you lay out the how. It's so valuable. Gosh, I'm so. I'm so thrilled that I learned about all this. The book I have is Slaying youg Fear. You also have exhausted wives, bewildered husbands. People can find you all over the Internet. Adam, what an honor. The last podcast of the year kind of explains everything. We always end our show with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Favorite memory that was outside. I remember being with my grandmother and her simply teaching me things on the farm and showing me how things are meant to run and how they're just systems. I remember feeling so connected to her just by doing chores. Doing chores for a child, but learning from her. She was right there with me and it meant everything. Everything. I think the experiences we give our kids, training them, teaching them, and being with them in relationship changes everything for the rest of their life.

[Jenny Urch]

And chores are vasopressin.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Chores are vasopressin. When you know that you're serving a system and building something together. Yes, it's vasopressin.

[Jenny Urch]

Amazing. Adam, thank you so much for your time.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Thank you.

[Jenny Urch]

Thanks for spending this time with me today. I'm really glad you listened to this one. If this helped you, it'll probably help someone you know too. Share it with someone who needs it. And if you've never left a review for the podcast. I read every single one. They are so encouraging and they really do matter for the show. This one came in over the weekend. To say this podcast has single handedly changed the way I mother my seven children is an understatement. I'm extremely selective about what goes in my ears in my spare time. Spare time is in quotes. That makes sense. With seven children, Ginny's interviews are not only delightful to listen to, but the enlightening topics, the vast knowledge shared on said topics, the light hearted way it's presented in the interviewees themselves. It's just a treasure. I've ended up purchasing and reading many of the author's books and have loved learning more about parenting and how to do life well. One of the most important jobs I've ever had should require some research and this podcast is it. Thank you Ginny for sharing your gift of gab and bringing all these great resources to one place. If you'd like to leave a review, I might read it on the show. And truly, truly I appreciate them all. And here is that final reminder. Today is the very last day for the 1000 hours outside Mega Bundle. If you've been thinking about it, this is your moment. Inside is our 2026 kickoff pack, plus over 800 in family resources, all for just 25. Only through today. You'll find the link in the show notes or at 1000 hours outside calm. Here's to raising families who are chemically resistant against dopamine oppression. That was probably my favorite line from today until next time. May you find extraordinary moments on ordinary paths. Get outside, open your eyes Feel that sunshine kissing your skin Throw your worries out to the wind Climb some trees skin your knees Feel that grass on your feet again get out there and take it in.

[Adam Lane Smith]

Oh, it's a beautiful world Ain't nothing on the screen that's ever gonna beat this view oh, it's a beautiful world and I just want to share with I just want to share, share with you this beautiful world Such a beautiful world.