1KHO 704: Home Should Be the Safest Place on Earth | Stephen McWhirter, Radically Restored

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The 1000 Hours Outside Podcast
Episode: 1KHO 704 – Home Should Be the Safest Place on Earth | Stephen McWhirter, Radically Restored
Host: Ginny Yurich
Guest: Stephen McWhirter, author & musician
Date: February 8, 2026

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode features author and musician Stephen McWhirter, whose memoir Radically Restored: How Knowing Jesus Heals Our Brokenness details his journey from a traumatic and turbulent childhood marked by family abuse and hypocrisy, through addiction and rebellion, to finding faith, forgiveness, and personal restoration. The conversation explores the impact of family wounds, the necessity of authenticity in parenting, cycles of addiction and healing, and the complex power of forgiveness. It also touches on chasing dreams later in life, the mystery of creative success, and the full-circle providence that can only be seen in hindsight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Stephen’s Early Life: Family, Abuse, and Hypocrisy

• Outward Appearance vs. Inward Reality

  • Stephen grew up as the son of an evangelist, witnessing his father preach about Jesus publicly while being physically abusive to his mother at home.
  • "We can't underestimate the impact of a parent on your life." (Stephen, 03:29)

• This duality led to early disillusionment with faith:

  • "At a very young age…I decided that if God's real, he’s not good." (Stephen, 03:38)

• Rebellion and Addiction

  • By age 11, Stephen was smoking, drinking, and by 15 using cocaine and selling drugs.
  • Addicted to crystal meth by 17, he immersed himself in drug culture and fostered a deep hatred for Christianity.
  • "At 11 years old, I'm doing all this crazy stuff…by the time I was 17, I became a full out crystal meth addict." (Stephen, 04:21–04:38)

2. Family Secrets and the Weight of Pretending

• Their home enforced a strict secrecy about the abuse.
  • "Keeping the secret of Dad's abuse was our number one rule as a family. No one could ever know." (Jenny quoting book, 13:08)
• Parents focused on presenting an image to the outside world, driven by fear of losing reputation, income, and ministry opportunities.
  • "The prison that is caring more about what people think than what God thinks is one of the worst…it's brutal." (Stephen, 14:01)
• On why we hide: "I think it's an actual lack of trust in God's ability to actually restore and redeem things." (Stephen, 15:11)

3. Addiction, Intervention, and Miraculous Change

• Prayer and small gestures—someone gave Stephen The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel.
• Despite his hostility, he accepted the book, and one night, high and alone, began to read it.
• A profoundly spiritual encounter ensued—Stephen describes the moment of surrender:
  • "I just have this moment where I know He's in the room. I know God's real. And I'm just like, I want to give you my life…" (Stephen, 07:48)
• He viscerally recalls being unable to imagine a life apart from addiction.
• God’s response to his helplessness:
  • "You won't do it. I'll do it." (Stephen, 08:46)
• Overnight, his addiction ended, something he credits not to willpower but divine intervention.

4. Parenting Lessons: The Impact of Honesty and Presence

• On the long-term effects of his father’s emotional absence:
  • "He was there, but he wasn't really there, and that his absence was a different kind of wound." (Jenny, 28:36)
• Stephen encourages parents to forgo perfection and be honest with their children:
  • "It was just the ability to go, 'Oh, I acted like a real idiot there. I love you guys...I'm not perfect, but I do know someone who is…' Just to be honest and let them see you mean it." (Stephen, 22:50)
• On children acting out:
  • "There's something going on there...your gut reaction is to come in and go 'get it together.' But I found that if I go, 'What is going on? Are you okay?' ...that has led to some of the biggest breakthroughs with our kids." (Stephen, 25:34)

5. The Power and Process of Forgiveness

• The hardest step was forgiving his father.
  • "I've had more people who've read the book go, 'I had the most trouble with you forgiving your dad, but also the most healing in talking about it.'" (Stephen, 30:18)
• Clarifies forgiveness vs. reconciliation.
  • "Forgiveness doesn't always mean you're going to be friends...it's about a debt that somebody owes you. Reconciliation doesn't always have to be the case..." (Stephen, 31:00)
• Emotional moment: Forgiving his father face-to-face with very little visible shift from his dad—yet knowing something powerful happened.
  • "There's no bird landing on my shoulder. ...but I knew something had happened beyond what I experienced in that moment." (Stephen, 32:43)
• Final act: Whispering forgiveness as his father passed away.
  • "I lean in one last time...and I say, 'Dad, I love you and I really do forgive you.' And he then literally moments after that, takes his last breath." (Stephen, 37:22)

6. On Pursuing Dreams Later in Life

• Stephen’s music career began later than most; he was told “you’re too old for this” in his 30s.
  • "People even said, 'Stephen, you're too old for this.' ...I was in my 30s at that point." (Stephen, 40:53)
• He eventually wrote "Come Jesus, Come," which went viral, earning Dove Award honors and touching millions worldwide.
• He stresses the importance of perseverance, ignoring societal timelines, and leaving results up to God:
  • "You never know which song the Lord will breathe on...I have no business being here at all doing any of this. This is all just the kindness of God." (Stephen, 46:29)
  • "You just keep making them for Him and whatever He wants...It's fine." (Stephen, 45:45)

7. Full Circle: Lee Strobel and Meaningful Divine Connections

• The very book that triggered Stephen’s transformation (The Case for Christ) now connects him to Lee Strobel, who ends up writing the foreword to Radically Restored.
  • "Someday you're gonna write a book and the guy whose book you're reading right now…is gonna write the foreword." (Stephen, 49:07)
• A friend’s event led them to meet; their stories of radical change became entwined.
• The generosity of others enabled the free distribution of half a million copies of The Case for Christ at Hobby Lobby.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Home’s True Purpose:

• “Home should be the safest place on Earth.” (Episode Theme)

On Children’s Needs:

• "I wanted my father to know what was going on. I wanted to get his attention. Most of my destructive behavior was my way of giving my dad a giant middle finger. I wanted him to see my broken life and hear me say, you did this.” (Stephen, 21:53)

On Forgiveness:

• "The most like Jesus we can be on this side of eternity is to forgive people that don't deserve it." (Stephen, 31:32)

On Creative Success:

• "You never know which song the Lord will breathe on." (Jenny, 41:13/Stephen, 45:45)
• "Any shred of success has come by the grace of Jesus...I'm simply following where he leads." (Stephen, 45:45)

On Parenting:

• "If your kids are acting out, it may be a way for them to give you an opportunity to step up. That's what they're looking for." (Jenny, 25:27)

On God’s Redemption:

• "God can do some really beautiful things with the broken things we're so afraid of, right?" (Stephen, 53:18)

Favorite Outdoor Childhood Memory

• “I remember going to Mount Hood when I was a kid...just like a really beautiful day. It was a good one.” (Stephen, 55:05)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Family hypocrisy and trauma: 02:35–04:21
• Addiction and turning point: 04:21–09:46
• Moment of spiritual encounter: 07:48–09:46
• On secrecy and appearance: 13:08–15:19
• Parenting lessons—cries for attention: 20:53–26:52
• On forgiveness and final words to his father: 30:06–37:22
• Music, age, and viral song: 40:53–45:45
• Full circle with Lee Strobel: 47:31–51:50
• Final reflections and outdoor memory: 54:35–55:05

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Flow & Tone

The episode is honest, candid, and at times raw, but consistently hopeful and redemptive. Stephen is unflinchingly transparent about suffering, failure, and healing, and Ginny’s empathetic questions help listeners connect these experiences to their own lives as parents or family members.

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Conclusion

This conversation is an invitation to authenticity, radical forgiveness, and trust that the brokenness in our lives can be the source of deepest restoration. Stephen’s journey from pain and secrecy to healing—and to fulfilling his dreams in his own unique timing—offers encouragement for parents, individuals healing from trauma, and anyone hesitant to believe in second chances.

Book: Radically Restored: How Knowing Jesus Heals Our Brokenness
Music: Available on all streaming platforms (notably, “Come Jesus, Come,” “My Right Now”)

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For more:

• Search "Stephen McWhirter" wherever you listen to music
• The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel
• www.1000hoursoutside.com

Transcript

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[Jenny Urge]

Welcome to the 1000 Hours Outside podcast. My name is Jenny Urge. I'm the founder of 1000 Hours Outside. I'm on the tail end of my voice with which is kind of funny and silly because I'm talking to someone who has an incredible voice. Steven McWhorter, welcome.

[Stephen McWhorter]

I don't know about that, but you're gonna be great, you know.

[Jenny Urge]

Oh gosh, like, okay, if I tried to sing anything, it would not come out well anytime, but especially in this exact moment. So, Stephen, you've got a new book out. It's called Radically How Knowing Jesus Heals Our Brokenness. And you share quite a story in this book about your past, about your childhood, and I think a lot of people will relate to it. It is a story a lot about hypocrisy and how often in family units we portray something on the outside, but on the inside are living something very different. And that's Very hard for kids to deal with. So can you talk about you grew up the son of this, of the son of a preacher man, you know, of someone who's out there with a lot, gaining a lot of respect, a lot of response and being asked to speak everywhere.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urge]

But was a different man inside your home?

[Stephen McWhorter]

Right? Yeah. And, you know, I think it's probably you. Like you said, a lot of people can relate. I hope not, but I know that they can. And that's, you know, But God, man, it's a good story. Even though it sounds like it's going to be a bad one. This is kind of the way the Lord works. Right. It seems like it's going to be a terrible story and he turns it into a good one and it's awesome. But yeah, my dad was an evangelist and I would watch him get up and preach about Jesus. We would travel with him to revivals and church camps. Right. And I watch him get up and preach about Jesus, but behind closed doors, I would watch him physically abuse my mom. So at a very young age as a child, you know, I decided that if, if God's real, he's not good. Right. And I've been getting down this crazy path of rebellion where my earthly father and my heavenly father became the villains in my story. Right. And we can't underestimate the impact of a parent on your life. We try to, but it's a pretty big, It's a pretty big, It's a pretty big shaping person in your life. And so I decided I didn't want anything to do with it. At 11 years old, I began to rebel heavily. And it was, you know, marijuana smoking cigarettes, drinking, that kind of stuff. 11 years old, gosh, I have an 11 year old, by the way, who is the, he's the quintessential 11 year old. He'll enter a room, you know, doing the robot and then fart and then leave.

[Jenny Urge]

Like, they're so innocent, they're so young.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yeah. That I told that story. But he's 11. He'll probably won't watch this podcast till he's his 20s, but he's hilarious. But yeah, 11 years old, I'm doing all this crazy stuff. At 15, I'm doing cocaine, I'm doing all kinds of pills, I'm selling drugs. I mean, you name it. By the time I was 17 years old, I became a full out crystal meth addict. And I was using every day for many, many years to come. And during this time, I was the guy who hated Jesus, hated Christians. I Think if I'm honest, you know, my mom, by the way, throughout my teens, up into my 20s, my dad, you know, I guess from when I was around 12 years old or so, or 11 years old, my dad didn't physically hurt my mom anymore. Right. That does not condone it, by the way. It's not okay. And like any child in a situation like that, I think you probably want your mother to leave your dad. Right. You're like, would you just. Would you just. Just leave him? My mom didn't. She stayed with him. And I think there's this part of me throughout my teens where I'm. I'm kind of like giving him the middle finger for doing all this that I saw growing up.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

If I could be honest.

[Jenny Urge]

Sure.

[Stephen McWhorter]

And her for not leaving him, even though she's one of the strongest, most amazing people that I know. Right. Kind, super sweet. So this is where I'm at. And during this time where I'm, like, doing all this, you know, crystal meth and stuff. I mean, I hate Jesus. I hate. Christians would have cussed you out if you even talk to me about it today. Right. So people were praying for me. Like, really, really praying for me, I would say, you know, like pulling over the side of the road, crying for me to come to Jesus, which is the Lord, if you ever do that. And I just remembered because I knew God was after me during this time. Looking back, somebody came and they gave me, during this time, this book called the Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. And Lee's a friend of mine now, but somebody had given me this book. And this is probably the most miraculous part of the story because I didn't, like, cuss them out and kick them out of my house when they offered me the book, even though I hated Jesus. It's crazy. If I look back, it was like a blur to me. This is the part that makes me go, man, God's real. Because I accepted this book without an incident, threw it into my bedroom, and fast forward, I'm in this bedroom. It's 3 o' clock in the morning. I have drugs on the side table next to me. Nobody's playing a piano softly and quietly in the corner, you know, creating this, like, moving atmosphere. But I always say it's the kindness of a very real God, like a very loving God, to meet a wounded evangelist kid in a place like this, because this is the kind of experience, this right here is the kind of stuff that'll offend a lot of religious people, because it wasn't In a pew. It was in a room with drugs and everything. But as I'm reading this book for some reason, and I just have this moment where I know he's in the room. I know God's real. And I'm just like, I want to give you my life. I want to quit all this stuff that I've known for so long. I want to quit all this addiction, all this darkness, all this anger, all this depression. All this stuff, man, that I've known for so long. I want to God, but there's no way I can do it because. And he knew I meant it, because I couldn't remember what it was like during this time to, like, be happy and, like, without taking something to, like, make me feel happy, like, to be like a little kid or something. So I. I felt like I was in this place where I couldn't fathom being somebody else. Like, this is. This was my identity. Right?

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

So when I was like, God, I want to do this, but I can't. I just remember this thought. Okay? I didn't, like, audibly hear his voice or anything like that. Just this thought that I knew wasn't min. And it was. I felt like the Lord said, you know, you won't do it. I'll do it. And truth is, I didn't know it at the time, but this was passage in the letters from Paul in the Bible, from Ephesians 2. 8. It's, we're saved by grace. This isn't something you and I could boast about. It's a work of God. Like, he does it right. And that in that moment when I. When I knew he was like, I'll do it. You won't. I'll do it. I did the most simple thing it was and the most difficult thing. I took him at his word. I believed him. Like, I believe I'm breathing air right now. Like, that kind of belief. Like the. You know, we don't even think about it, right? Breathing. We just know it's real. It was that kind of thing. And so in that moment, I fell to my knees in that room, ugly crying, boogers coming out of my nose on the ground. Gave my life to Jesus. I'd been brought. You know, I'd been around church enough where I think I. I knew what to do.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

But it was real. It was very genuine. And if you think about it, it's really easy for somebody. Not easy. I'm sorry, but it's. You can see how somebody would come to Jesus or give their life to him if They've just always had a bad life. And, you know, their parents weren't per se. They were like, you know, just drug addicts or something. Like, you'd go, yeah. I think it's more of a testament to the Lord that I was brought up, like, kind of seeing hypocrisy. Hypocrisy. And still going, oh, my gosh, God's real despite all that.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

So it became this very real, real moment for me. And, yeah, I mean, there's no. There was no looking back. You know, it's funny because as Christians and as people, as a Christian myself, you can see a lot of people going, well, if you do all these things perfectly, you're going to be okay. You know, if you're perfect in all, if you're a perfect parent, if you're a perfect this, you're a perfect that, everything will be fine. Jesus says in John 6, 29, the only work the Father asks of you is to believe. That's what I did that night. I didn't get my life together. First I believed him, and then he did the rest. And I believe that he could through me in a way that changed. Like, even not my willpower, but my ability to, like, just stop doing drugs. That's crazy to me.

[Jenny Urge]

Like, yeah, overnight.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yeah, overnight. And I have a lot of people in addiction recovery ministries or just addiction recovery things in general, and people that'll say, you can't say overnight. That's not how it always works. Like, you're going to discourage people. I'm like, well, I can't lie. I'm not going to lie, at least.

[Jenny Urge]

Right.

[Stephen McWhorter]

I always tell people this in the Gospels. If you read them, Jesus never healed anyone the same way twice. Every story has a purpose. And if your story is. It takes six times, seven times, whatever, and you fall at the feet of Jesus. A bunch of kids that may be hearing this just heard me say, six, seven. I apologize.

[Jenny Urge]

I think about the same thing, Stephen. Every once in a while, I do it, too. I'm like, oh, I feel bad for them numbers.

[Stephen McWhorter]

No, it's fine. Be doing. We could be. There could be a lot stupider stuff kids could be doing. I'm fine with six, seven. You know, it can take seven times, and you fall at the feet of Jesus, and that's your story, and you mean it. And your story will draw people to Jesus. So be encouraged. Right? Not every story is the same, because every story has a purpose, and yours matters however it turns out, when it turns out, with you giving your life to Jesus turning to him, letting him take over. It's amazing. There's more to it than that, but I don't want to. I want to give you a chance to ask a question or do whatever you want to do. I don't want to just keep talking and rambling and going on. But there's the book.

[Jenny Urge]

The book is fantastic. It's called Radically Restored. And you walk through your whole story here of going to all these church camps, getting in trouble at the church camps, getting sent home early from the.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Church camps that my dad was preaching at.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah, right, right. Like vandalism or. You know, you get. You get sent home, but you say that you're. There was this fearful need to give the appearance that everything was okay for my.

[Stephen McWhorter]

For my family.

[Jenny Urge]

For your family as a whole, as a child. Like your childhood family.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urge]

Keeping the secret of Dad's abuse was our number one rule as a family. No one could ever know. So, you know, he's lying. Like, people are like, well, why is she so bruised up? And he'd say, well, she fell in the shower. So you're being exposed to this.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urge]

As a child, your whole childhood. This is like the, you know, the entirety of. Of your childhood. Can you talk about why are we like that as humans? Like the. I mean, it really is such a human problem to give off the appearance that we're fine.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Two things. I will say this story, keep listening, because something good happens, right? I. When I even came in to read that, write this book, I was like, I don't want it to be just the. Here's all this Bl. Bad things. People just going to read one bad thing after another. Like, you know, part of the book is my story. The other part of my book is the good things that God has done through it and what he wants to do with your life and what you look like. Right. Going. Coming out of the other end of that. That there's actual hope, that there's actual life, something really good on the other side of this stuff. But I think, you know, part of it, it's a fear of reputation, of what people think. That's a serious prison. The prison that is. Caring more about what people think than what God thinks is one of the worst. It's pretty brutal, right? And I think for me, growing up, even when I was doing all that stuff, and even after I've given my life to Jesus, one of my biggest things, it's been like, I just have to care more about what he thinks and what other people think. And so I Think for my dad, my mom, it was, don't ruin his ministry. We want, you know, all the things that God's done. This is our main way of providing for our family. It's finances, it's all that stuff. So how do I say this? I think it's a lack of faith in what God can do. I think it's an actual lack of trust in God's ability to actually restore and redeem things.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

You know, we live in a culture right now where the prospect of being canceled for something you've done or, you know, losing everything is potential. You know, it's true. It's a real thing.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

And more than it ever has been. And I don't know that it's a bad thing at times. It's very bad. There's not a lot of grace in it. That's a problem. But at the same time, when you get caught, instead of you tell somebody, it feels different. Right. And I think part of the thing is, as believers, we hear the word repentance and we go. The first thing we think is people in general repent. We think, oh, everybody's going to know the terrible thing I did. I'm going to get in trouble. I'm going to get canceled. I'm going to lose everything. So I have to hide. It's the only option I have. I have to hide it. I have to hide it. But the truth is, in the Bible, every time repentance is mentioned, even the word repent means to turn and go the other direction. Right. To turn from death, turn to life. To turn away from this thing that's hurting you, to turn to something that's. That helps you. Right?

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

So when the Lord is talking about repenting, he's talking about turning away from these things to him, to turn away from death to life. Right. So like, even in, like, Deuteronomy, there's this passage that says, you know, if my people are called, my people will repent. Will they turn into me then? I'll hear their prayers. I'll heal their land. That's good. And later on in the Book of Acts, Peter says, in Acts 3, 19, 20 says, repent so that the time of refreshment will come from the Lord. There's like this crazy beautiful thing that God does on the other side of repentance. But we're so afraid about what we're going to lose that we forget about all the things that God wants to heal. Because I promise, we know this just from history, from people. Absolutely nothing good has ever come from hiding something. Yeah yeah ever and it will be known at some point.

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[Jenny Urge]

So, okay, I think there's two key parenting things that you could take from reading your book and listening to what you have to say. One of them is that you talked about like in this rebellious stage which starts young, right? You're a middle schooler and you talked about how nobody let your dad know what was going on because he was just like emotionally. You say he had the emotional tolerance of a toddler. Yeah. Don't let dad know. He's not going to be able to have handle it. So you've got this kid, you know, you're in it, your mom's going to get you in and out of jail and nobody's letting your dad know. And you say, I wanted my father to know what was going on. I wanted to get his attention. Most of my destructive behavior was my way of giving my dad a giant middle finger. I wanted him to see my Broken life and hear me say, you did this. I wanted my mom to tell him the truth so he would step up and be a real dad, even though I knew there was no chance of that. So it's a different way of looking at, and maybe it's not always 100% this, but, but looking at our kids cries for attention.

[Stephen McWhorter]

There's something going on there. There's something going on there. I feel like, you know, we've been real blessed with our children probably because we've not pretended at all. You know, we have three boys, by the way, we have three, three redheaded boys that are 21 now, 18. So we're seeing. Did, did, did it, did it work out? Are we okay? You know, and then you get, then you get the 11 year old and it's great to see, you know, your 21 year old, you know, reading the Bible in the morning and like, and you see your 18 year old leading worship and you, you just. All these things where you're like, okay, I mean, I know who I am. That was definitely God. He did that, you know.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

And it was just the ability to go, oh, I acted like a real idiot there. I love you guys. I hope you know, you know, I'm not perfect, but I do know someone who is, you know, and just to be honest and let them see you mean it. You know, one of the things I tell worship leaders or other people is like, I try to spend a lot of time with the Lord, not preparing for something I'm going to do in front of people. Right. Like just to be with him, like just to sing to him. To sing to him. Not hitting record on, on my phone because it's a cool song idea, like just to be with him. And so my kids have kind of grown up around this. Like, oh, my dad means it. You know, he's not like this perfect holy person like that kind of like acts like this. But I mean it and I hope that's the case that doesn't. That also means owning it. When you really mean it, you repent. When you make a mistake, you do, you know what I mean? Like, you go to people you own, you own your business. But I didn't experience that growing up. And I think that in two ways. It's funny to say I wouldn't change a thing. I mean, I'll, you know, because of where God's taken my life and how many people we've seen come to Jesus through my story and through all these things. So I know God's used it for Good. But yeah, I mean, going back, it's. I remember my mom. My mom has told me since I've wrote. Written this book, my mom's still with us. And she, she was reading the book and she. Which by the way, was a terrifying thing. I was like, I can't wait to write this book. To read. She read the whole thing. And even when writing the book, she was like, this is. I'm starting to feel like the weight lift. Just me writing this book for her. And one of the things she told me when I tell her about this part in the book where it says, don't, don't let dad know because he can't handle it. Right?

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

That part she was like, that was so real. She told me this after finishing the book because I would have put it in there. Right. But it's this. My mom would even come to my dad about finances and he would be like, don't tell me anything. I don't want to know it. I can't take it. Just keep $100 in my bill, fold at all times, and that's it. I don't want to know anything. So he literally lives in this place, incapable of handling anything.

[Jenny Urge]

Wow.

[Stephen McWhorter]

That would, you know, and there are some of us, we're like that. And it's. So as a parent, you have to be able to confront things. You have to be able to step in and deal with stuff. And we create these like, bubbles that we think protect us, but they're actually just making things worse, you know?

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah, yeah. So you look at your kids behavior, and if they're acting out, it may be a way for them to give you an opportunity to step up. That's what they're looking for.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yeah. Your gut reaction as a parent when you see a child acting up is to go. And there are times for this, by the way. It's to come in and go, you need a gut. What is. Get it together, that's enough. You know what I mean? Like, just knock it off. I found that if I go, what is going on?

[Jenny Urge]

Right.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Are you okay? Because you're not acting like who you really are meant to be, like who you really are. Because what we do is we tell them you're bad, you're doing things that are bad, but you're not bad. So this isn't really who you are. Like, these things are not the real you. So what's going on? And I found as a parent, for me, that has led to some of the biggest breakthroughs with our kids, and that has led them down paths of being able to ask the question, like, what's going on with me? Why am I doing that? You know, and you.

[Jenny Urge]

And you knew. Or in time, you. You figured out. You're like, I'm just trying to see if my dad cares about me. Really. That's what I'm trying to do. Is he gonna actually step up and be my dad?

[Stephen McWhorter]

I think deep down. Yeah. I think deep down I always wanted a real moment with him. Never, Never. Never really really got it, to be honest with you. Yeah, there's some here and there, but. But not really.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah. And that's so interesting. He just, he couldn't handle life. And then you talk about how eventually the abuse did stop and he was doing pills and he eventually stopped that. It's like your mom left with you and your siblings for like a very short period of time and then came back and.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yeah, it was that. Wake up, get dressed, get in the car, we're leaving. You know, bruises, bloody lip, that kind of stuff.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

With my mom and us being like, what's going on? And then we realized it and we're like, oh, good, we're leaving. Awesome. Terrifying, but awesome. And only to have her go 24 hours later, we're going back. He said he won't do it again. And let's be like, what in the world? And. And though. Though, yeah, as I'll go on. There's, there's, there's something that God did still, despite. And by the way, if you hear this and you're not safe, get safe. Because I don't condone that. I think God still used it. Like my mom staying with my dad, like, however, yeah, just get safe, you know?

[Podcast Sponsor/Ad Host]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urge]

You were so relieved that she left. You know, this is freedom. But then you talk about that even after. This is like the sort of second parenting thing. So if your kids are acting out, this may be. And people say that a lot. This is a cry for attention, a cry for direction. But this other parenting piece is that your dad never repaired the situation. So he does eventually stop abusing your mother physically, but he never addresses it.

[Stephen McWhorter]

It's the, it's the self protection stuff. Still the reality, right?

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah. If you stop self protecting, then you're able to heal things with your child. And you say, really, it went from one set of issues to another because you say he was there, but he wasn't really there and that his absence was a different kind of wound. So this whole, your whole childhood basically is this wounding experience from one thing to the next, and then you talk about, you already said, you know, you go down this path of getting arrested, and, you know, by the time you're 22, you'd already been in addiction for half your life. For 11 years, you were convinced you were trapped, and then you quit everything overnight. So this is a big book about childhood and parenting. The mark a parent leaves on a child cannot be overstated. You say the wounds of childhood are so powerful. But then you get this book from Lee Strobel, and he wrote the forward of this book. What a cool full circle moment. And you start to turn your life around. I'd love to talk about the fact that you. It's not, I don't want to say pinnacle, but you. You rose like your music career is later than what some people would say is, like, the norm. And they're telling you, like, you're too old. That's what they're telling you, which I think is such a horrible message. So I'd love for you to talk about your music story and how it actually, the timing was really good because you're like, if this would happen in my 20s, you know, I might not have dealt with it the same way.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yeah. And you can. You can edit this out, but I'll ask the question, do you think we'll get to the forgiveness part?

[Jenny Urge]

Do you want to start? We could do that right now.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yeah. I think it's. Honestly, I've had more people have read the book go, I had the most trouble with you forgiving your dad, but also the most healing in talking about it. Yeah. You know, I think one thing about, like, you get. You get saved. You get. You give your life to Jesus. You're like, okay, now, that's great. One of the things that I found that was the most difficult for me, and probably the biggest part of my story was I knew I was supposed to forgive my dad, which a lot of people hear that, and they'll go, that is unimaginable. You cannot do that. That's a no. No. I am somebody that follows Jesus. I actually believe this stuff. It's not just like, I joined a country club. Like, I actually believe it. And I believe the most. The most, like Jesus, we can be on this side of eternity is to forgive people that don't deserve it. Now, I'll clarify what that means, because it doesn't always mean. Forgiveness doesn't always mean you're going to be friends. Forgiveness doesn't always mean you're going to be in a relationship together. Forgiveness doesn't mean all that. Forgiveness is About a debt that somebody owes you, it's legitimate. Or you owe somebody that they can tear up or you can tear up. Right. And that's, that's literally, that's that's the thing. But reconciliation doesn't always have to be the case. You don't have to always be friends with them to forgive them. Right. And to begin to get healing and move on. So my dad, I remember going to my dad's house, ever going to my parents house and going in to see my dad, knowing I was gonna like, try to do this thing. Right? Right. After getting saved. I'm in my 20s, right?

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

And this was the most awkward moment ever because I walked in, he's sitting in a lazy boy, like the quintessential dad in his chair, right?

[Jenny Urge]

Yep.

[Stephen McWhorter]

And you're like, hey, we need to talk. And I go, hey, I need to forget. I want to forgive you for the things you did growing up. Which we don't talk about it, remember? You don't talk about it? Well, I'm talking about it and I'm telling him. And there's no, like, bird landing on my shoulder. There's no beam of light shooting in. There's no, like, Disney music playing. It is just plain awkward. You'd never put this in a movie. Like, my dad's just looking at. I'm like, I want to forgive you for all the things I saw growing up, blah, blah, blah. My dad's looking at me like a deer in headlights, right? Like, reality is cracking for him. And he just looks at me, goes, thank you. Okay. And I just get in the car and I drive away. But I knew, like, something had happened beyond what I experienced in that moment. Right?

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Fast forward. My. My fiance, who is now my wife, by the way, but she says, hey, I think your dad should baptize us. I believe there's something in this that God wants to do. So we have my dad baptize us, by the way, on the way to be baptized. We got like, the worst screaming match we've ever been, like, pulling over on the side of the road, which, by the way, like, cussing each other out. It's not the kind of thing you do on the way to get baptized. But we knew, like, okay, this must be important. We're supposed to go do this. So we go, we get baptized. My mom tells me later that my dad cried all night after baptizing us because he kind of started talking to her about it, saying, I feel like the Lord might be actually mending my relationship with my Children. And fast forward a little bit more. My wife says, I want your dad to perform our wedding ceremony. At this point, I'm getting a little sick. I don't know if this marriage is going to work out, but I'm like, cool, we do it now. At this point in my life now, my dad's died from cancer over almost 12 years now, I think, and from bone cancer. Now, if you've ever had anybody that's gone through cancer, right, or been in hospice, right. You know what I'm talking about. They've been in hospice. They're in a coma. They're in that place where they're alive, but you know what I mean? They're barely holding on. It's that moment where the doctors and the hospice team tell you, just whisper to them, talk to them. They can't respond, but say it's okay to go. Right? Do you know what I'm talking about? Have you ever been through this?

[Jenny Urge]

No, I haven't, but I've read books about it.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yeah, it's pretty, pretty crazy. Well, I remember being alone in this room. There's a story, by the way, where Peter comes to Jesus in the Gospels and he says, jesus, how many times should I forgive my enemy? And Peter's like, is it seven times? Because that sounds like a lot, right? And Jesus is like, no, seven times 77. Sometimes it's like you just keep going. Don't count. You just do it till, you know, till it's complete. You just keep going.

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[Jenny Urge]

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[Stephen McWhorter]

So here I am in this room. I'm watching my dad barely be able to breathe. My mom leaves the room to go to the bathroom or something. And I'm alone in this room with my dad and I'm watching him struggle. And I lean in one last time, literally with tears in our eyes and I say, dad, I love you and I really do forgive you. And he then literally moments after that, takes his last breath. And I felt like there was something in that. Where again, forgiveness is about a debt. You're only really keeping yourself in prison by not ripping that debt up, right? And there's something in that Forgiveness that he wants to do in you as a parent with your kids. Right. There's a healing there that happens that again. I knew though I forgave him in that moment that I was going to keep doing it on this side of eternity, but there's something really good that he's going to do through that. And I think all of this was super important for me before I stepped into the things that God wanted to do with me in my life. Because I always say, you know, your character, he won't like allow you to go into your destiny until your character is ready. And for me, this part of the forgiveness thing was a huge piece for me that prepared me years later to step into honestly a dream that I had since I was a kid. But it's also more than that. It's like, it's like who you are, what you're meant to be doing, what you're meant to be doing as a believer, as an artist or whatever it is, you know.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah, so you say. A lot of people say to you, you shouldn't have forgiven him.

[Stephen McWhorter]

I can't argue with him. But I also know that that's the upside down, offensive piece of the gospel, like the real gospel of Jesus. It's going to upset people because it upset people when he was doing it, because it flew in the face of what we think is justice.

[Jenny Urge]

Right.

[Stephen McWhorter]

But for me, the gospel is us not getting what we deserved. And that's still the case today. Right. And so I. Was I ever really close? Close with my dad? No, unfortunately not. But there was still something there that God wanted to do that was a bigger picture. Yeah, yeah.

[Jenny Urge]

What a story, what a story you share. It's very important that you shared it, I think. And people can read and there's a lot of layered things that you can learn from it. The book is called Radically Restored and you go from not being able to stomach Christians, making these self destructive choices to writing incredibly deep Christian songs. So, you know, and becoming a father and, and going out into the world and in some ways sort of being like your dad, you know, sharing Jesus in, in that part of it, but doing it in, in a lot more healthy and whole way that doesn't evolve this hypocrisy that, that messes up the family unit totally. So I, I do, I did, was drawn to the part of your story though where you felt like maybe I'm too late. You know, you say lurking in the back of my mind was the fear of getting too old to see my dreams come true. But. And People even said that they would say, hey, hey, Stephen, you're too old for this. You're too.

[Stephen McWhorter]

I was in my 30s at that point, by the way. So let that sink in.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah, they're like, you're too old.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Like, early 30s. They were like, gosh, you're just.

[Jenny Urge]

I know. Why do people do that?

[Stephen McWhorter]

I'm like, I'm not trying to be in a boy band. What's going on here?

[Jenny Urge]

But then you have this song that goes viral. Come Jesus, come.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urge]

And CZ Winans did it, which is funny because we went to the Dove Awards as a family. We got to do, like, a behind the scenes tour.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Okay.

[Jenny Urge]

Torn Wells was the mc, and he joked around about, I remember this.

[Stephen McWhorter]

I wasn't there, but people are asking me.

[Jenny Urge]

She does everybody's song. CZ Winans. So she sang this song, Come, Jesus, Come. And one of the things. So first of all. So two things. One is, are you too late? The age thing? But then the second thing is you say, you never know which song the Lord will breathe on. Which is kind of tricky because you're like, well, I've written all these songs. Why that one? It's a. It's a message about to keep going, you know, and to not give up. So can you first tell us about how to deal with, like, if you. If you have a desire for something, but society is going to tell you, you're probably too old for that.

[Stephen McWhorter]

You know, it's funny, that story, the devil words. It's like the Christian, like, Grammys kind of is what it is, you know, basically, which is whatever. But I wasn't there. I was invited. I was told to go because Come Jesus, come. One that night, best won a Grammy for Gospel Song of the Year with. With Cece. And I remember getting all these texts from people at my label and going, hey, where are you? Are you here? Where are you right now? I'm like, I'm eating Chipotle in my living room, you know, watching TV. I think I was literally watching SpongeBob, by the way. And somebody was like, well, you just won. You just won Gospel Song of the Year. I was like, I thought this Chipotle tasted good. That was it. That was all I got. But, yeah, it's great, man. God's good. I mean, I don't. I'm not a big. By the way, my wife is a writer on that song because her and I wrote that song in her basement. Like, the first parts of the verse and a little bit of the courses and stuff, we were crying and weeping in our basement. Never thought anybody would hear it. Right. And so I thought it was funny to be like, when. When we got nominated for the Dove or we won the Dove. Her name is on it. She's like a quintessential housewife, by the way. Not housewife, but I'm sorry, she's not a house. Actually, she's the most manliest wife in the house. Right. It's like that Nate Bargetsky joke where people are like, is the husband. Is the man of the house here? Yeah, I think she's out in the shed. That's my wife. Right. So anyways, she. She's a writer on it. So when I was ordering the double words, I didn't order mine, I only ordered hers. So it was, like, so funny. Her. She's only got, like, two songs that she's ever, like, written, and that was one for her.

[Jenny Urge]

I love that. So Tara's got a Dove Award. Yeah, I love that. But. But you kept going. Even though people said you're too old for that, you were not confined to these sort of. Of societal time frames. And then I. I would imagine that as a singer songwriter, it would be hard. I mean, I even feel like that with. Yeah, I've got a couple books. And you're like, is it gonna go well? Is it not gonna go well? You just have no idea. And then sometimes things skyrocket or sometimes nothing skyrockets. But this particular song, Come Jesus Come, which I. I love. We all know that one in our family is. And then are you ever kind of like. But what about all my other songs?

[Stephen McWhorter]

No, I don't know. You know, I'm kind of in this place where I have. There's a lot of people that follow what I do. This is a pretty. Pretty big group of people in the world following what I do. And those people are hearing all those other songs and connecting with the Lord with them. Some people never get one song that does what Come Jesus, Come does. So I'm kind of just like, wow, that's awesome. God. You know, like, do what you want. But I'm also. I don't live in Nashville. I don't live in, like, la. I don't live in, like, the places you would live to be, like, successful at this stuff. That's a whole other aspect of it, by the way, not doing any of the. What is the things you do to be successful. I'm in Louisville, Kentucky. Right. Just sitting here with the Lord, writing music and putting it out, and he allows me to do that. And it's an absolute gift. And so, yeah, even if I get one song, that's huge, right? So I pray that. That. That I, like, never lose track of that. And I just keep making them for him. That sounds cliche, but it's true. You just keep making them for him, and whatever he wants to do with that, it's fine. If not, it's okay.

[Jenny Urge]

That's such a. An important message. Because you say that, because you just know it's God, you say. I was doing music for years with almost zero progress. Any shred of success has come by the grace of Jesus with the purpose of loving people and leading to Him. It's not my own doing. I'm simply following where he leads. There is a lightness to it that I know is the Holy Spirit. And so that comes with time.

[Stephen McWhorter]

It really does. And actually, when I hear you say that, I'm going, oh, I should do that. So it's like, it's. It's a constant reminder. You're like, don't forget. I mean, don't get me wrong. I have some mornings where I wake up and I go, I wish this was. And then I had to stop, and I go, wait, hold up.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

I have no business being here at all doing any of this. This is all just the kindness of God in. And his timing.

[Jenny Urge]

So, yeah, I also really like the song My Right Now. That's another one. I really. Such good lyrics. I'm not gonna wait till tomorrow to praise and God, you're worth more than just yesterday's faith.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urge]

No looking back, Lord, when you're in the room I'm done wasting my precious time Jesus, I give my right now, my right now to you. Just about living in the moment.

[Stephen McWhorter]

And that's the truth. Because we get so focused on our past, like all the mistakes or things that we wish we'd have done differently, or we get so focused on the future. Oh, well, I have another hit song. Or will I be able. Will this be okay? Will that be okay? And the moment right now.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Is crazy powerful to be able to just be with the Lord right now instead of worrying about what's coming or what's been. Just, like, it's a really healthy thing if you can get there.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Podcast Sponsor/Ad Host]

Okay.

[Jenny Urge]

Will you tell us then how this comes full circle? And this book by Lee Strobel, it just changes your whole path.

[Podcast Sponsor/Ad Host]

It's called the Case for Christ.

[Jenny Urge]

They actually gave out a half a million copies, I think is the right number. This past Christmas at Hobby Lobby for free, they gave out Half a million copies of that book to people.

[Stephen McWhorter]

I actually know how that happened, by the way.

[Jenny Urge]

Okay, well, tell us.

[Stephen McWhorter]

But I can't. No, I'm not gonna say. Because the person that I know that is wealthy, that felt the Lord to do that, may not want me to.

[Jenny Urge]

Say, oh, that's what happened. But someone donated them.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yes, someone that. That was affected by Lee's story as well.

[Podcast Sponsor/Ad Host]

Oh.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Bought a half a million books and had them all given away.

[Jenny Urge]

That's so cool. Well, tell that person what an incredible thing. And I'm sure you know so many people would say the same. I thought that was incredible and that that news went everywhere. So I didn't know. I mean, it doesn't matter who the person is. But what a cool thing that they.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Did that I told that person. You could have just given me the money and I would have saw to it. It would have been fine.

[Jenny Urge]

Well, what a thing. Half a million copies. But. But Lee says the both of you took this roundabout route toward faith. His what? Wound through ardent atheism, petty ambition, endless bottles of booze, and a vain search for happiness in all the wrong places. He said, I've seen this happen time and again. Cynical skeptics who are ambushed by God's truth and end up bending their knee to him. How did that full circle moment happen where he ends up writing the forward to radically restored.

[Stephen McWhorter]

You know, it's wild. Okay, imagine this. Now, this didn't happen, but let's just pretend for a moment, okay? Because it'll help paint a cool picture. You're me back in my 20s, over 20 years ago, right? And you're in this room, 3:00 in the morning, you're reading this book about Jesus. And God says to you, someday you're gonna write a book. And the guy whose book you're reading right now in this room is gonna write the foreword. And I'm gonna use your story with somebody at 3 o' clock in the morning reading your book.

[Jenny Urge]

Wow.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Because this is what I do. And again, at that point in my story, I'd have been like, if I could just be sober and be okay and my life not being falling apart, that would be awesome. But to think what God's done. And so here we are, we fast forward. I have a friend of mine, Matt Brown, who's an evangelist and a podcast guy as well. He's in Minneapolis or was in Minneapolis time, and he was like, hey, you want to come do this event? It's like a digital Billy Graham thing where you like, lead worship and share your story. Yeah. And I get there and Lee Strobel is one of the speakers. And he didn't know, by the way, this guy didn't know my story or any of this. And he finds out later and he's like, oh, my gosh, this is crazy. Crazy. And so Lee and I end up connecting there. Lee and my friend Mark Middleburg, who works with Lee a lot, they're like best friends. And so I've become friends with them, which is just like. To me, lots of people, like, think of famous people they want to meet. And no offense to Lee, a lot of people don't know who Lee is. But to me, this was like a huge quintessential moment for me to meet this guy whose book I read and gave my life to Jesus. Like, it's crazy. So there were all these people there too, that was like, I think Daryl Strawberry was there and a bunch of people and everybody was like, oh, Daryl, strawberries here. I was like, huh? Do you guys see Lee Strawberry? Could have been anybody. But anyways, I. I go, I become friends with Lee, and sometime later I'm like, you know, I think I'm gonna put my story down, like in like a little short, like, story thing and just sell it to. Or just give it away, actually to my friends, people to follow me. Right?

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

And to people on my website, whatnot. And I was like, hey, Lee, do you want to write a little something at the beginning? And basically this led to Mark and Lee being like, no, you're going to write a book and we're going to help you find a publisher and help you find a literary agent and all this kind of stuff. And it was so. It just snowballed without me having anything to do with it. I wasn't seeking to become an author because when I even sent in the book, I think they were like, first time, they were like, this is great. We're going to need 20,000 more words. I was like, could it be a coloring book? Let's just do half of it. Like, pop up a lot of words. So, yeah, so it's been. It's been really. It's been really, really cool.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah. What a thing. What a thing. What a full circle moment to have him write your forward tier book. It is a wonderful book. It's called Radically Restored How Knowing Jesus Heals Our Brokenness. So people can listen to your music. They can go wherever they listen to music and look up Stephen McWhorter. The song come Jesus, Come has amassed over a hundred million views and there's so, so much more music than that. I love listening through. And so it's such an honor. Honored to meet you and I so appreciate you sharing your story. People have really hard paths, and it is a blessing even.

[Stephen McWhorter]

You know, there's this writer and author, C.S. lewis. He says you've never met a mere mortal. Everyone's forever. And, you know, everybody has a crazy story.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

You just never know, right?

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah, you never know. And to see how God has turned it around, because it was. It was so sad. I spent most of my childhood nights in bed with a pillow over my ears to muffle the sounds of my mom screaming and crying as my father yelled and hit her. Though he never physically abused me or my siblings, he left us with too many emotional scars to count.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urge]

And. And then just, you know, how God. And it took a long time. It did take a long time.

[Stephen McWhorter]

It did take time. But God did turn healing around, real healing. And I'm not just saying this to sell a book. You don't have to even go read it. Okay. Don't tell my publisher I said that.

[Jenny Urge]

But that's not what they want you to say.

[Stephen McWhorter]

I know it's not, but I don't really care. They're sweet. They'll be fine. You know, if you hear me, there's actually. There's real freedom and, like, real healing from this stuff. You think there's not. You think there's no way of going back and looking at it, but it's real. Like, God can do some really beautiful things with the broken things we're so afraid of, Right?

[Podcast Sponsor/Ad Host]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

It's good.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

What make you better? It's going to make you the best parent you've ever imagined.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Might even make you the best sibling or child or whatever that you've imagined. And there's a lot of healing and beautiful things that come through it. I wish I could tell you that, you know, there are some conversations I had with my mom and people because of the writing of this book and just going back over the story and allowing the Lord to do some cool stuff. That has been awesome. So. Yeah.

[Jenny Urge]

So glad you did it. Wow. You say I was alive, but dead. Do you know what you look like fully alive. It seems like a question that would get a quick yes from everyone, but it is not always that easy. So Jesus comes in and changes everything for you. You've written down your story and radically restored how knowing Jesus heals our brokenness. We always end our show with the same question, Stephen. The question is, what's A memory from your childhood. A favorite memory from your childhood. That was outside.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Oh, my God. Out, like out in the world.

[Jenny Urge]

Out outside. Out of the four walls of the Inside.

[Stephen McWhorter]

You mean like in trees and stuff? Yeah. Gross bugs out there and stuff.

[Jenny Urge]

Outdoors. Yeah. I mean, you were.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Man, I wish I were out biting.

[Jenny Urge]

Hiking, and biking, but.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yeah. No, no. Yeah. You know, I think I. I think I have some. I mean, you know, I remember going to Mount Hood when I was a kid, you know, once in. In Oregon.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

I just remember that being, like, really a fun day. And that was actually with my mom, my dad, my sister, and my brother and everybody. And it was like, just like a really beautiful day. It was a good one.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Podcast Sponsor/Ad Host]

Yeah.

[Jenny Urge]

Ah, I love it. Well, Stephen, huge congrats on your new book and on all of your success with your music career. We love following along and always love hearing the new songs and the old songs. You know, you do hymns, A lot of organ. It's a lot of organ. I love all the organ.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Yeah. Well, we have a lot of gospel musicians, and we just go kind of old school.

[Jenny Urge]

Yeah.

[Stephen McWhorter]

So we love it.

[Podcast Sponsor/Ad Host]

I like.

[Jenny Urge]

I love hearing it. Thank you so much for your time that you spent with us, us today.

[Stephen McWhorter]

Thank you. You're the best. I appreciate you.

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