A (3:36)

Yeah, totally.

B (3:38)

I did have a digital camera and I still do have a lot of those videos from before this regression happened. And I have proof, I have ample proof. Even though it's not the same amount of surveillance we have on our kids now. I do have the video proof to show the talking, the eye contact, the playing and interacting with the dog and all these skills that she had were gone. And I was just kind of. I was very traumatized by it. And I. That's when, of course, Jenny McCarthy was speaking. She was one of the only people speaking. And I still a dream of mine to eventually get to chat with her and thank her for everything that she did, because I felt very alone and very scared. And she was just kind of this light in the darkness of explaining like, this is like, likely what has happened to your child. This happened to my child. And so that really started the ball rolling with me getting into alternative health and losing trust in mainstream advice, mainstream doctors, because it continued for her life of us, you know, trying the mainstream approaches and none of them actually being very, very helpful for her. In fact, worse. So, you know, now with her, she letterboards. I'm sure everyone knows the telepathy tapes. She goes to school with some of the children that are actually in the telepathy tapes, were close with some of the families in that series. And she is very much able to spell and communicate and, you know, like, she's very much like one of the telepathy tape children.

A (5:09)

So you explain what that is.

B (5:12)

She, you know, the world thought she was completely dumb and, like, wanted to give her an intellectual disability label. And I fought it forever. If you listen to telepathy tapes, there's a lady named Libby, and her son John Paul passed away. Unfortunately. This is episode nine. Libby came to my house when Alexis was nine and I was at the bottom. I was so depressed. This was like 2015. I was just so depressed because I'm, like, getting no help for my child. And the ABA therapy and all the regular therapies are just, like, barbaric, you know? And she's crying. I'm crying. It's just horrible. And I'm like, I know she's in there. I know she's in there. And so Libby came and said, I'm gonna get her on the boards. Libby had my child. Now, this is John Paul's mother had my child. Spelling commute. Like, I was floored. I still cry every time we do letterboarding sessions. But she has everything inside. No one ever taught her specifically how to read yet. She can do college level math. She can spell. She spells words I've never even heard of before that. I have to go look up. And because of Libby again, coming to my house and basically like, I'm doing this whether you want me to or not with your child. It's opened up a new world and a way for us to communicate with her. And so that's kind of what the telepathy tapes is about. These kids are very special, you know, but if you don't have a way to kind of unlock. Unlock them and tap into the world that they're in, you're just going to think that they're kind of crazy because it is kind of crazy to live, you know, sometimes with her and all the things. But it's. Yeah, it's. It's really quite fascinating.

A (7:00)

So what a thing. We have vaccine injury in our family too. So I had someone came on one time and they were like, are you. Are you. Do you say the V word on your podcast? Podcast? I was like, I don't even know what you're talking about. Vaccine. And I was like, well, yeah, of course. Like, it's so censored that someone would think that you can't even talk about it on your own podcast. But we had done, and I was sort of similar to you in terms of mainstream, but I was nervous about the shots. And so I had read this book, I think it was by man named Dr. Sears or something. We had our first, similar age to yours. So like, I mean, we had a kid in 2008.

B (7:37)

Mm.

A (7:38)

And so I did the delayed schedule. It was like in the Dr. Sears book or something where it was like I would have to go to the pediatrician, like a lot more often. It was a pain to spread them out. Well, when our, our first two are super close in age, they're 15 months. So like when I was about to give birth to the second one at the pediatrician's office, they were like, you're not going to be able to keep up with this delayed schedule once you have another baby. So we should catch your kid up at this 15 month appointment, the ones he's missed. So, you know, it's like, it's so much pressure.

B (8:09)

You so much pressure.

A (8:10)

And he lost his ability to walk. Now, it did come back, but for 10 days. I mean, he just collapsed to the floor and went back to crawling. And we took him in for X rays. Did he break something? I mean, you don't. I mean, they're 15 months. They don't like, did he sprains? I mean, he just collapsed, Sarah. And no one said, oh, well, hey, he just got however many shots yesterday or whatever. And these two things could be related. So just such a wild thing that it's not in some ways not allowed to be talked about. And the fact that they said even when you took her in and they're like, this is just a response to the flu vaccine. It's very common.

B (8:51)

Right. That's what they told us. I will never forget that. I'm like, really? Then why are we doing this? Like, why are we giving this to a 1 year old? I don't get it. Yeah, it's crazy. And there is a lot of fear tactics and scaring. And every time after that happened, that's when we stopped vaccinating. And every time I would take her to the pediatrician, they would say, all right, well she's due for this, this and this. And I would say, I don't want to do it. And they're like, okay, well then you have to sign this waiver. And like, they would kind of bully me into it and I would like sign the waiver or whatever because I was young and I'm just like, fine, I'm not doing it. But at one point when the doctor was really strong arming me, I looked her straight in the eye and I said, you were here. You were here every visit. I brought her to every visit. You saw her, you saw her doing everything she was supposed to do. And then when I brought her back in here after this shot, she wasn't doing any of those things. You saw that. So why are you going to sit here and pressure me into something that could potentially make this work? Like. And she just, she actually didn't say anything. She actually acknowledged it, you know, And I'm thinking, how messed up is this? You know, you see a child regression due to a, you know, a medical procedure and then you continue to like chastise the mother and force her and sign these waivers to just not do it again. So needless to say, everything with my son has been completely different with his medical care. And how we approach things is totally different.

A (10:27)

But how heartbreaking because you're just doing what you're told. And it's a Hippocratic oath, is first, do no harm. What are we doing? So I do think it's important to talk about because you cannot go back, you know, and we obviously changed our care for our other kids as well. And you can see the difference in long term health.

B (10:48)

Yeah, yeah. My son's like never had, he's had one ear infection. We were able to treat it without antibiotics. And he's three, he's turned three in October. My daughter, by the time she was three, she had had two sets of ear tubes. Two, two sets of ear tubes. Because I don't even know how many ear infections that poor child had had.

A (11:06)

It's like, okay, so anyway, night and day difference.

B (11:11)

Yeah.

A (11:12)

So in the past 16 years, you've become board certified in applied quantum biology. I'm like, I don't even know what that is. Biology levels 1 and 2 with the quantum Biology Collective, Certified in nutrition with the National Academy of Sports Medicine. Our 15 year old daughter is actually a certified personal trainer through the National Academy of Sports Medicine. And you just completed Dr. Tom Cowan. Now he's been on our podcast too. And I think one of the biggest things he said is don't vaccinate. Like if you read his books, like Common Sense, Child rearing, I mean, that's like the main thing he talks about. He's like, if there's one thing that you could take from this book. So you've been working with clients all over the world for 14 years. Can you talk about what quantum biology is?

B (11:54)

The way that. And it's, you know, I try to apply it to everyday life and it's kind of looking at health. I know you've had Meredith from Quantum Biology Collective on the podcast. She's a really good friend of mine. I do A lot of collaborating with her. And that's the program I originally went through and where I got the board certification. But it's taking these principles of quantum biology, looking at the body through the lens of, you know, going beyond biochemistry, not to say it's irrelevant, there's definitely relevance and things we learn there. But looking at the body through the lens of things like exclusion zone, water, mitochondria, understanding our body through more of an energetic lens. You know, I've really, I love the work of Dr. Martin Picard, how he has really shown how the mitochondria pays attention to stress, pays attention to sound, pays attention to light. And he's not much of a light researcher, but there's a lot of amazing researchers out there showing how our mitochondria, these are kind of the energy factories of the body, putting it very simplistically, respond to these other inputs that are beyond just, you know, your supplements and your straight, you know, straightforward advice. I'm not someone who discards standard, you know, nutrition advice and get your steps, get your sleep, eat right, you know, I agree, but there's foundationally a lot missing when you just kind of stay in that model. And I see that it misses the boat with a lot of people. So I look at the body more as this system that is really responding to signals. And light is a primary signal, timing is a primary signal. You know, the same thing, the same meal that you eat at 9am, if you were to eat that at 9pm, your body is going to have a complete, completely different response to that. And the, you know, the typical standard thing is like, oh, it's calories in, calories out. If you're in a calorie deficit, you're still going to lose weight. Even if you eat at 9 o' clock at night, I'm like, sure. However, your body is in a completely different operating system at 9pm than it is at 9am and so when I'm looking at health, I'm taking light, timing, sound, water, all these things, minerals into consideration. In the picture of health, it's nature. It's

A (14:25)

important signals that we get from nature. And sound would be one and light would be one. And you even talk about the moon phases. This is part of the app and I'll make sure I'll put the link there so people can check that out. Then you talk about. So you've got the 16 year, you know, a journey of health and, and learning. But you also had a lot of health things that you were struggling with. So you said adrenal fatig, anxiety, bloating, depression, eczema, fertility issues, food addiction, gas, IBS inflammation, ovarian cyst, pcos, pms, weight gain and more.

B (14:59)

And we could just keep going. Let's bring out a list.

A (15:03)

But you have really been able to turn this around. So I would, I would love to push people toward everything that you have to offer. And you also have free resources as well. So people can go to your website, Sarah Kleiner wellness.com and like I downloaded this guide about your circadian rhythm and how to build your day. I mean, nobody's really talking about this, right? Like, your day is very much focused on work or school, what you have to get done, but it's not really focused at all on circadian health. So a lot of things. And on your Instagram, like your website, your social media, you can see you say, used to be over 100 pounds heavier than you are now. You are exhausted, you are constantly hungry. So one of the things that you talk about that I have not heard many people talk about is leptin. You hear ghrelin. I don't even know if that's how you pronounce. It's like gh. I'm like, what words? As a G, H, R. I heard about that one, but not too much about leptin. So can you. I don't know if that's the direction you want to go.

B (16:03)

Sure, I'll go whatever direction you want to go. And I'm excited to just chat.

A (16:07)

But yeah, did that help with. Did the awareness of the leptin help with or was it more the light? What would you say is the biggest impact? And I know what you're talking about. A lot of things interconnected, but these are a lot of struggles. You know, if someone's listening and they're like, I've got eczema and fertility issues and food addiction and inflammation, they might think there's no help.

B (16:29)

Right.

A (16:30)

And no hope.

B (16:31)

Right. And I felt that way many times.

A (16:35)

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B (20:28)

You know, and the stress of being a special needs parent, like I talked about in the very beginning of this episode with, you know, Libby is an angel. And when John Paul passed, it just, I, I just shut down like it was. I couldn't even listen to that series when it came out. I couldn't listen to telepathy tapes because I knew Libby was going to be in there talking about John Paul passing away. And it was just heartbreaking. And I don't think it's really, it's hard to explain the kind of stress you go through as a special needs parent. And it's been a mirror to me of how much stress impacts our health, how much like our mental outlook and the little bitty things that we do all day, every day to cope with stress, deal with stress, impact our health negatively. And that's kind of what I was living in. You know, I grew up in a not so great stable home. Both my parents got sick when I was very young. I used food to cope, I used alcohol to cope. I used, you know, I was given pharmaceutical drugs to deal with depression and anxiety. And like that was it. You take the pill and then you just cope. You know, I never really was given Tools that were simple, easy to use and accessible. It was like, let's take this pill. You've had a hard day. Let's watch TV and Netflix and drink wine. And, you know, that created a lot of health issues for me, which I definitely have. Genetic predispositions to. Obesity, diabetes, all the, all these things. Depression, I mean, it's all down the family line, alcoholism. But what I didn't understand is that again, mitochondria, really, and how these mitochondria are working, functioning, and the signals that they're getting are going to impact all these other downstream things. What's been really foundational to me, yes, leptin. And leptin was the key, really, one of the big keys in my fertility journey. When I did decide to, like, shoot, I'm just going to brave it and have another one. I always wanted more kids. But, like, it's scary. Like, what I just talked about, I went through. I've been through a lot, you know, with my daughter. People just can't understand what you go through with a special needs child unless you have one. You know, it's. It's crazy and difficult. But we were like, okay, let's try this, you know, And I thought it was going to be some easy thing to get pregnant because I had been on a carnivore diet for two years because that helped to get rid of a lot of the IBS and the pcos. Like, it suppressed all those issues, which at the time I thought that was like, that's what we do. We just like squish it and we're good, right? Unfortunately, it wasn't a long term solution and it was not a fertility diet. I found that out the hard way. So after multiple miscarriages and trying to go the route of fertility treatments, all of that, which all failed, I was introduced to Dr. Jack Cruz. We had one conversation, that was it. I only talked to the man one time, and he said, you need to go outside in the morning and you need to learn about light. You need to learn about leptin. He said, learn about leptin and this is going to be the key for you to reclaiming fertility and health. And he said, this is it, right? And I took it to heart, you know, because I had tried all the other things, they weren't working. And I also. That's when I met Meredith and the Quantum Biology Collective and connected with a lot of those really amazing, lovely people, started studying Dr. Pollock's work. Veda, Austin. Like, there's a plethora of amazing people out there, quantum circadian just I could go on for days. And so I really dove into a lot of that work and changed my lifestyle. And the quickest thing I noticed from just getting out there in the morning sun every single morning, I was like, I'm doing it the first few days. I'm like, this is so stupid. Why am I doing this? But what do I have to lose? But I noticed within the first three days that after three days I wanted to keep doing it. Something in my brain, those neurotransmitters were really getting activated as I felt energy and I felt happiness. I felt because you do make dopamine and serotonin and UVA light, felt my appetite was more regulated. I started having more appropriate hunger in the morning. Like a lot of things in my body, a lot of systems just started turning on. And I was like, wow, this is crazy. And so of course, I continued to do it and I continued to study it and dive into it. And then I eventually started adding it into client protocols and working with clients and started shifting more towards this model and away from the standard model. That really was, you know, getting the job done in some situations, but leaving a lot of gaps for a lot of others. Really, on my own journey, continued to do these things. I started looking more at my mitochondria as one of the reasons why I was having an issue with pregnancy, getting pregnant, staying pregnant, and focused on how do I create better mitochondria. You know, how there's. You can create better mitochondria, there are things you can do. I started doing things like cold therapy, red light therapy. Of course, the morning light was foundational and then appropriate darkness at night. Because this is another fascinating piece of research with fertility and darkness and night. I did a post about this a few months ago. I believe it was in 2010. There was this large scale study that started that essentially showed that women for millennia had essentially had their menstrual cycles to sync up with the moon. Smartphones came out around 2010. Everybody had this glowing thing in their face. It was around 2010, but that stopped. There's a large scale study. I'll have to find it on my Instagram feed. Maybe I need to write about it again. But women stopped cycling with the moon when we introduced smartphones. And you got to think about that of like, what kind of an endocrine disruptor that is for people. Because when you look at it, when it, what you're doing is you're disrupting melatonin production, which can lead to estrogen dominance, which can lead to low progesterone, which can lead, you know, all these hormones that impact fertility and healthy cycles get disrupted through. What are you doing looking at your phone at night, Something that simple. And so it was just these very, very simple things that I did. And I was able to get pregnant with my son when at age 42, give birth at age 43. Completely different experience than with my daughter. Birth wise, pregnancy wise. Everything was just so much easier, better, Even though I was 28 with her and 42, 43 with him. Totally different experience. And I attribute a lot of that to what I do. And I also different experience postpartum. With postpartum depression, it's severely, severely with my daughter. Like, I was put on Zoloft again, of course, you know, let's go back to the drugs. With my son, I prioritized the things, the morning light and didn't have to be perfect because a newborn, it's like, how the heck do you just do a perfect sunrise routine? You just go out there when you wake up, you know, still prioritize tons of outdoor time. And again, the darkness at night is a little tricky, but it's. You do it with like, you know, little red light, red light panels and things like that. Little night lights. Still, still doable. Did not have postpartum depression with my son. So I feel like these tools are overlooked and they're so powerful for so many things.

A (28:12)

And what a better experience for the baby. For the baby. When you're paying attention to light and that your milk is affected. I remember reading about that. Like, if you pump, it's like, make sure that you don't give your baby the. The daytime milk at nighttime, at night,

B (28:27)

because it got cortisol, because the hormones are different.

A (28:31)

There is a lot to learn. But I love Sarah, that your story began with three days. Three days. I'm gonna do this stupid thing and I'm gonna go outside in the morning. Even though it feels like I have tried a thousand things to fix this laundry list of issues that I have, I'm just gonna go outside in the morning and you notice a difference. You notice the difference very rapidly. So people can take the same path. Look, I've got all these issues. What if I take this idea that seems really dumb, like it could possibly do nothing and just give it a go. So can you talk then about these hormones? So there are hormones I think a lot of people have heard about is cortisol and melatonin. These are the master circadian hormones. Ghrelin is One I've heard about a lot. It's like, do you feel full or not? Fuller. But leptin is one that you really focus on, and that's one that I don't know as much about. You have a leptin reset plan, 21 day leptin reset plan and a leptin master plan. These courses that people can take. Do you have issues feeling satisfied when you eat? Do you still suffer from cravings? Are you having trouble losing weight? Are you suffering from inflammation? Have you been told you have pcos? These things are related to leptin. Can you give us a little more insight there?

B (29:42)

So leptin wasn't even discovered until 1994. And when scientists discovered it, they were like, wow, this is the next insulin. You know, we're going to figure out a way to manipulate this and we're going to change obesity, we're going to change how we look at health. And they ran so many different studies and experiments and there's like a lot of literature around leptin where they really were not able to significantly create change in a human being by injecting more of it or using specific drugs, things like that. Just couldn't do it. And it was basically concluded that you got to have lifestyle and diet to change this. And so that's why no one really talks about it that much. I think more people are starting to understand it. It is a satiety hormone. So ghrelin's a hunger hormone. Leptin is a satiety hormone. And when you talk about it, most people say it's a satiety hormone and they just leave it at. Now, the leptin master plan is my practitioner course, where I have all the studies and I break down all the research and explain all of it, how it relates to all these different systems. But leptin impacts the immune system. It's usually. Leptin resistance is usually present with autoimmune conditions. It's a precursor to insulin resistance. So it happens before you become insulin resistant, you become leptin resistant, that the brain stops getting the signal of leptin. It's about whether or not your brain's getting the message of how much stored energy you have. And it's kind of this master regulator hormone talks to thyroid. So it's above thyroid in this hormone hierarchy. Hey, thyroid tomorrow. This is our metabolic expenditure rate, please. So when someone's been leptin resistant for a very long time, they end up falling into thyroid dysfunction. I've had so many people come through my leptin reset and they come in like a month later. I get a message, hey, I'm feeling like very nervous. I'm having a little insomnia. What's going on? I'm like, are you on thyroid medication? Yes. Go to your doctor, get your labs drawn. You might be on too much. I've had. So I've had that. I had to actually make a module in the course for thyroid patients and say, you've got to continue working with your doctor, getting your labs checked because you're probably going to have to go down on your meds once you do integrate all these things. So it is just, it's really, really important in fertility. It's implicated in a lot of fertility issues. Pcos, endometriosis, hot flashes. I mean, the literature is vast of how leptin impacts these things, yet we're not really talked about it. We don't talk about it because there's no drug to manipulate it.

A (32:26)

Wow.

B (32:27)

Lifestyle, diet and light. Light is huge. And that is again where I credit. Dr. Cruz has done a lot of great work talking about this leptin melanocortin pathway and how it is activ UVA and how this pathway has to turn on, these metabolic clocks have to reset, respin every morning at sunrise, and how light plays an integral role with leptin physiology. Because again, even in mainstream people who do talk about leptin, they will just stop at diet. They will just stop at diet and exercise. They will never bring in the implication of how light impacts leptin physiology. And that's something I could literally talk about all day long, of little simple tweaks that people can make to support leptin when it comes to light biology.

A (33:16)

So has it gotten worse because of artificial light and screens? Is that sort of the impetus to like, why all of a sudden it's not working?

B (33:26)

Well, it's a huge contributor, I mean, huge, huge contributor. Because leptin is a circadian hormone. It is meant to dock to the brain at the same time that melatonin is kind of doing its little peak at night around 12 and between 12 and 2 is going to be variable. Everyone's circadian clock might have little variance and there's, you know, variance between people. But for most people, when, for all people, when melatonin is at its peak, that's when leptin supposed to talk to the brain. But what happens if you've got a screen in your face or you wake up at the, in the middle of the night, you start looking at a screen, the body Starts this cortisol pathway and the sex steroid hormone pathway kicks off. And so leptin never gets the chance to dock to the brain.

A (34:12)

Wow. And that just is a cascade of issues. How quickly can you fix it?

B (34:18)

You know, it depends on the person and how dysregulated they are, because you do have to make nutritional changes also. But I would say most people, when they come into my leptin program, they start sleeping better first week. I mean, typically the sleep is better within the first week. Sometimes even just within the first few days, they notice a big difference in the sleep and the energy. And so it may take to actually reverse leptin resistance, you know, six, eight weeks for some people with a program that's going to include nutritional timing, hydration, minerals, you know, all those other things. But light is up here at the very top of the list of priorities because the morning sunlight is also crucial for leptin signaling. Again, like I just said, to activate this leptin melanocortin pathway, gotta have that morning sunlight. I would say for a lot of people, the signaling really gets better after about six weeks. And, you know, some people, they want this, like, quick weight loss thing. And what I'm. I'm doing a coaching group right now, and what I'm trying to encourage them is really getting through this first month and being extremely consistent. Because what ends up happening a lot of times is that you're super consistent. The first month, the body goes back into safety mode. Most people are in sympathetic dominance, which is a hallmark of leptin resistance as well. And so we establish all these signals back into the body. And then after the first three weeks or month, the body is like, I'm going to let go of a bunch of weight. That's when I got pregnant. That was my story. I was doing all this stuff not with the intention of losing weight. I was like, my goal is fertility. I'm not trying to lose weight. I just want to get pregnant. Right? Ended up month one doing this stuff, no weight loss. Month two, I literally lost 30 pounds in that second month. But my body had just been holding on to this extra weight. And I wasn't trying to lose the weight. My body just was like, whoosh, we don't need this anymore. And then end up getting pregnant. So, you know, I have a lot of people that come to me for fertility, and they're like, I want to lose weight. I'm like, that's not our focus. It can, you know, it can be a side effect of getting yourself more leptin sensitive. But yeah, it's a process.

A (36:32)

Yeah, but really not that long of a process. I mean 16 weeks. The leptin reset course is only 21 days. And how cool that you can go through with a group, a coaching group. That's fantastic. And do it with other people. Okay, I have been waiting to say this. Womb Bikes is the official 2026 bike partner of 1000 hours outside. And it just makes sense because here's what I know when kids fall in love with riding bikes, something shifts. They go from hesitant to flying down the sidewalk with total confidence. And that confidence spills into everything else. These bikes are lightweight, thoughtfully designed and built so kids can actually succeed. The brakes fit their hands. The geometry fits their bodies. They feel capable right away. And in a world pulling our kids towards screens, bikes pull them toward freedom. So we are kicking off spring with a 100 hour ride challenge. We'll release a special tracker to log 100 hours outside on bikes. And yes, at members, we're working on bringing that right into the 1000 hours outside app. It's going to be so fun if you've got younger riders. The Womb Go bikes are perfect for beginners and come in six bright colors, including a brand new powder pink that just screams spring. If you're working toward your 1000 hours outside this year, a great bike makes it a whole lot easier. Womb designs lightweight bikes built just for kids so they can ride farther and ride happier. Go to womb.com that's W-O-O-M.com and use code outside 10 at checkout for 10 off your bike purchase. Excluding the Womb Wow. Excluding the Womb Wow. That's outside tin for 10 off@womb.com the start of a new season always makes me look around and think, how can this house function better? Not fancier, just better. And honestly, Wayfair has become my go to when we're ready to level up a space without overspending, we tackled organization first, like closet systems, garage storage, and shelving for a work from home setup that was slowly being overtaken by stacks of books. Wayfair's filters make it incredibly easy to narrow by dimensions, finish and budget. I could compare pieces side by side, read reviews and feel confident before clicking order. Then we layered in a few lighter touches for spring, like updated bedding, simple decor, and a couple pieces for the patio so we're ready to be outside more. I love that you can find everything in one place, from big furniture upgrades to functional decor that actually solves a problem. Delivery was fast, assembly was straightforward, and There are even options if you want installation handled for you. It just feels streamlined. Find furniture, decor and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W A Y-F-A-I R.com Wayfair Every style, every home. You have written that. I mean the amount of money that you spent, the amount of time that you spent to change your health was extravagant. You say in a one year period, I cashed out copious amounts of money from our retirement plan for doctor's visits and testing and blood work and supplements and saw no real improvements. You tried everything you'd like. Tried this diet and that diet, you name it, I probably tried it. And you're gaining weight, losing weight, gaining weight, losing weight. You felt you're constantly fighting against your body and this is a change. And so much of it has to do with getting outdoors and being exposed to the rhythm of nature. And I think these are good things to pass along to our kids. We talk about a lot. The average kid is outside for four to seven minutes a day that are on screens for four to seven hours. And you know, people would talk about, well, they're not moving and they're not having these sensory inputs. But a big thing is that their bodies are not going to be aligned with the circadian rhythm. So can you talk about for parents and for kids, this for all of us. You talk about planning an optimal quantum day and this is something that people could download from your website. Sarah Kleiner wellness.com got all these graphs, you know, cortisol, melatonin. And you also talk about leptin. First of all, for the person who is like, I have never even in my life considered planning an optimal quantum day. Can you talk about why this is one of the most important things we should be doing in this day and age?

B (40:36)

I think most people, and like I said, I'm, I'm just started a new coaching group this week and going through all these intake forms and really helping people set up their plans. 99% of the people in this coaching group are depleted. They're depleted, they're stressed, they're caregivers, they've got little children, they're in a depleted state. And so when someone's in a depleted state, the last thing we really want to do is say let's do calorie restriction and more steps. You want to lose weight. Calorie restriction and more steps. That's what the mainstream viewpoint is. The way that I work is let's set up your day so that your mitochondria get more signals to produce more energy. Right? The right amount of energy. We don't want mitochondria burning, burning, burning through energy. Like there's a obviously upside down U shaped curve. But we want to provide your body with the correct inputs so that you have more energy and you feel like making better choices with your food with, you know, you're not just operating out of like dopamine chasing, you know, you are making natural dopamine in the morning with that UVA window, natural serotonin. You get another peptide called Alpha MSH in uva that's an appetite regulator. So so many hormonal and neuro processes are happening in the morning that will signal your mitochondria to make cleaner energy to perform better. So again, you start to want to make better food choices, you start to feel more energy, have better sleep. But really understanding this morning window is very important for setting the clock. And then people are like, how much I need to be outside during the day. I know it's not a really cool answer, but honestly, as much as you can try to make it a game to, and it's winter right now, it's not fun but you just make it a game to get outside. Just make it a game and it can be fun.

A (42:34)

Yeah, that is the thing. I mean you can go sledding, you can walk. I mean it's pretty, it's really pretty. I mean the snow is gorgeous. And I think that, you know, I love that book. There's no such thing as bad weather by rain or shine, Mama. I think, and, and it's, I mean it's a great book. So get out as much as you can. Make it a game, make it a goal. That's what we're doing. But in this one packet, which, these are things I feel like Sarah, nobody really talks about in this one packet that you can get on your website. And this is the Quantum Day. Optimal circadian health. You have these two graphics that I think just clearly show. So the first graphic is a clock. And this goes back to what we talked about at the beginning at 9:00pm so here's the little clock so people can download this. Here's your little clock. And 9 o' clock p.m. your intestinal movement stops at 2:30pm Your coordination is at its best, you know, and you go through this whole clock. So can you talk about how at 8:30 in the morning, that's when the intestinal movement begins. This is what you Were talking about at the beginning about how, okay, calorie in, calorie out, which I'm actually interviewing, and I'm so excited about it. Dr. Robert Lustig today, and he wrote this book called Metabolical. And it. He, like, is pushing back against the calories and calories out myth. But you're like, well, people are good. Doesn't matter if I eat at 9 in the morning or 9 at night. And you're like, yeah, well, yeah, it does, because your intestinal movement stops. Can you talk about some other things that happen in that circadian clock that people should know about?

B (44:14)

Yeah. I mean, you should poop in the morning around uva. Like, not to be, like, crass, but when that UVA light hits your eyes, this is one of the things that a lot of people notice when they start doing this work. The eyes grab these photons of light. This is very simplistic. They take that, make it, turn it into, recycle it into tryptophan, which gets recycled into serotonin, which gets turned into that night's melatonin. But another thing that happens is serotonin is a gut motility stimulant. And so a lot of people will poop in the mornings now. Yay. So if you have constipation issues, gut issues, one of the biggest things you can do to help with that process is get your light right. The morning light is really important. Helps get the gut clock started. And then again, like you mentioned, the evening time, our body temperature is meant to start dropping. This is another reason why, again, the calories in, calories out. People eat whenever you want. I don't care. Eat at midnight. Eat ice cream. I saw one of them doing this real like, oh, I'm eating ice cream at midnight. I'm not going to gain weight. I'm like, that is so stupid. If you understood how your body worked from these, this basic quant, you know, circadian lens, at midnight, your body temperature is supposed to be dropping. Melatonin is supposed to be rising. Things that can stop melatonin from rising appropriately. And your body undergoing these very important repair processes is going to be, of course, light is primary, that blue light or lux that is too high. That's why there's a lux meter inside of my circadian app. So you can measure your lux. Enough lux can turn the system on even if the light is red. So that's important distinction there. So light turns the system on, blocks melatonin. But also, if you're eating too close to bed, a heavy meal or Eating late at night. This will also prevent your body temperature from dropping and can delay melatonin from rising and also can delay these repair processes from happening. The mitochondria need to repair at night. And so it's just, we just need to not be eating late at night. Plain and simple. Pancreas kind of like goes to sleep. All these, you know, we don't make as much stomach acid. There was a. The Circadian Code is a great book that really has the science of this laid out of how the digestive clock works. Our stomach acid production is a lot higher in the day. And he had some studies to show that people actually were able to reverse their acid reflux by moving their meal timing to stop eating at 8, 30, 9 o' clock at night. They got rid of acid reflux. Hmm, I wonder how that was. Because they were trying to eat at a time when their body was naturally not making adequate stomach acid. Right. And enzymatic processes are also better during the day for digestion. So really our bodies are meant to thrive and be in the light during the day and at night to shut down, repair sleep and regenerate. But again, what our modern life does and then these confusing calories people say is just like, doesn't matter. You know, your body is just this calculator. But it's not really. Again, that's why the quantum and circadian model for me resonates and I see it working really well for people.

A (47:41)

It is interesting because when you think about like I grew up in the 80s and 90s and it was like, well, no one was really talking about this, although I am sure people were talking about it that were studying it. But like in your day to day, but it was just like life was different. There wasn't television programs on at night. I mean there started to be, I think with cable, but like even before that there just wasn't. It was like the television programs were over. Like it would be like infomercials who. Only if you had insomnia or something, like you're not staying up to watch these infomercials. And then, you know, they started to have these late night shows. And then all of a sudden there's the, the phones. And then it's like, well, people feel awful. And part of it, a lot of it I think is just those changes. And so now it's important to learn these things that you're teaching. The other graphic that you have on this page, you've got the, the clock and it's like, you know, this is where Your stomach is going to stop, your intestinal movement's going to stop. You also have one that shows all the hormones and where they show up in terms of time of day. You know, it's like 6:00am, 6:00pm, midnight. And. And you realize, Sarah, that there are a lot of things here that you've like, never even heard of. I'm like, wow, fh, fsh and LH and prolactin and, you know, the thyroid stimulating hormone and Addie Punk Ponic Tin.

B (49:03)

So then I like.

A (49:04)

Well, yeah, yeah, I really bought that one real bad. Okay. You're like, gosh, this actually would affect how completely how you feel.

B (49:15)

Mm.

A (49:15)

All these.

B (49:16)

Yes. Yeah. We're not. The body is not this like closed system of just like. It's not black and white there. It's. It's multifaceted. And we are, we're light beings. We respond to light, we respond to temperature, we respond to meal timing, sound. All these things make and shape our health.

A (49:36)

Okay, can you talk about the sound piece?

B (49:39)

Yeah. That is something that is. When you look at water and that's the way I look at it. Cymatics and that whole realm of science of how sound and vibration actually impacts us on. At the level of the exclusion zone, water. So our bodies are 99 water by molecular volume. I'm not sure if you've ever had Veda Austin on your show before to really. Oh, gosh, you gotta have Ada on. She shows really beautifully how water responds to sound, to light, to words, right. To intentions. It's fascinating when you see her work and you see the crystallography and you see how again, water is this kind of living element that is always listening as memory and realize that we're 99% water by molecular volume. And this is surrounding the mitochondria and all of the cells in the body. You start to put some pieces together of how sound could potentially impact us at a cellular level and create illness or health. And I'm sure you've heard of Masaru Emoto and his. Seen his work around this before, right?

A (50:55)

Nope.

B (50:56)

No. Oh, goodness. Yeah. Emoto was the one who kind of started this work and Veda Austin has taken it really to the next level. And people will say, oh, Emoto's work has never been proven. I'm like, yeah, there have actually been double blind placebo studies done of his work of people praying around water and then people saying nasty things to what. It's fascinating to see how it changes. And so, yeah, understanding that we're not just meant to perhaps Listen to negative things all the time. Negative people even. Like, I'm very sensitive to sound now where I wasn't before. I'm like, is it perimenopause or is it that I just know more than I think I should? Trying to figure that one out. But leaf blowers are on my list of things that I would like to get rid this world of because they really just do agitate a lot of people. But if you understand what sound does to water, it makes more sense.

A (52:02)

That is interesting. And I had read one time, and I don't remember what book it was, but it was about flight paths. And if you lived in spots that had more airplane noise, even though you ignore it because you get used to it, that can affect. That's super interesting. So you talk about sound. You brought this up earlier, but you talked about the rhythm of your meals. So one of the things you wrote was that eating breakfast alongside morning light will help you become more leptin sensitive, which will help you have more reliable hunger signals over time and will aid in appetite correction if there is a weight loss goal. A goal. Weight loss or gain goal if you're wanting to gain weight as well. So that's an interesting piece because the. I mean, I remember when I. I tell my kids all the time, like, I. My bus came at like 6:13am the bus came. I had to be outside in. In at the stop by 6:13. So that means I was getting up in the fives and it was always dark.

B (53:03)

Yeah.

A (53:03)

Can you. Will you explain the. I guess like in. So that's your whole life. It's like your whole life is so disconnected from nature's rhythms. It's all about the actual clock.

B (53:14)

Yeah. I mean, it's. The modern world does not set us up for success here. And that's really where I have more individualized plans for people because I do have healthcare professionals and people who have to go into offices and have jobs and they're like, great. Now I understand how this is impacting me on a cellular level. What the heck am I supposed to do? Because I can't just quit my job and leave and move, you know. And so, yeah, it's really tough, especially for kids. I think that that's essentially with my son, where I'm looking at not putting him through any sort of school system motivated to keep him, you know, nature aligned.

A (53:57)

I know. It's interesting because I did. I mean, we homeschool, so we have a lot more flexibility in terms of the way that we set our day up. Like we are able to build a perfect quantum day for optimal circadian health. And I, you know, but that's not why we homeschooled from the beginning. It was more just for time. I'm like, well, if for little kids, if the bus comes at 8, doesn't come back till 4:30, I was like, well, that's the whole day. Yeah, like when is our time? And you're going to be exhausted and like that's a work day, you know, for a five year old. But over the years I met all these other people, Sarah, that have their different reasons for why they started to homeschool. And one mom told me, she was like, I didn't want my kid to be under fluorescent lights all day.

B (54:39)

Right. That's my, that's huge for me and John Ott. There's a video, you can look him up on YouTube that shows how these children react under fluorescent lights and behavior problems. Add, ADHD spiking when they're under these fluorescent lights. I mean, it's huge. And there's that. I think that video is still up on YouTube if anyone wants to go watch it. But it really does impact behavior, mood. And then it doesn't even. We're not even taking into consideration the fact that they're missing out on one of the most important wavelengths for health, which is infrared. You know, near infrared light helps the body to make mitochondrial melatonin during the day, so it's doing these cleanup and repair processes during the day. The far infrared expands and kind of like nourishes this exclusion zone water that surrounds all of the cells. Dr. Gerald Pollock has shown that in his lab. And so we're missing out on master antioxidant and then nourishing our cellular water, essentially, which again surrounds all these cells in the body from just being under this blue light. And Dr. Glenn Jeffrey is the one who's really shown mitochondrial dysfunction and blood sugar regulation issues, insulin resistance, specifically from blue light, from these fluorescent lights that are devoid of red and infrared and just have this big blue spike. Majorly problematic for our health, for our mitochondria mood. I mean, it's like the science is vast. So I can't imagine putting my kid in an environment like that for the majority of their day. Like, I just can't, I can't fathom that.

A (56:25)

And you think about, I mean, I was a teacher for a while and some of the classrooms were interior. No interior rooms, no windows. Zero windows.

B (56:35)

Yeah.

A (56:35)

Which is wild. I talked. One of my very first podcast episodes was with a man named Dr. Jacob Lieberman. And oh yeah, he is one of the ones that says, and I didn't know he was like, you know, you think light is for vision? And he's like, that's only a small part of it. The light is really to guide your body. And so, I mean, it's been a good journey for me to learn. But you're, then you're talking about all of this timing your meals, when is it good to get cold? You know, so talking about, I mean, this is a great episode. It's freezing out and you're like, oh, it's so annoying how cold it is. But you're like, no, like it's great to get out into the cold, dunk your face in cold water, walk outside in the cold, a cold shower, full body immersion. So you just offer so much information for parents that they can help with their kids. There's a lot to consider. Fantastic, Sarah. So people can take your courses, they can join a coaching group. I mean, what an opportunity. You can make some friends too. Check out your YouTube and also you have your new sub stack and the My Circadian app which will help with, with, I mean, it's like basically what we're trying to do, like get outside. But then you're going to see what is this actually doing for your health. So, Sarah, what an honor. I'm so glad, I'm so glad that we got this time to talk. You have got like ebooks online. I mean, there's so much if you want to know about blue light backers, if you want to know about nutrition, we didn't even get there. Yeah, you've got the spring foods, spring breakfast, summer foods, all of these different things. Summer recipes, fall recipes, and then a lot for women. Perimenopause, estrogen dominance, thyroid pcos, autoimmune and fertility best practices. Sarah, what a path, what a path for you. And you're helping so many people to change their, to change their health problems. And often a long list, long list of health problems. And it just so goes right in line with getting outdoors. With 1,000 hours outside, we always end our show at the same question. And the question is, what's favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?

B (58:43)

Oh, man. I would definitely say building sandcastles on the beach with my dad. I would definitely say that was one of my favorites. Oh, and jumping the waves with my grandmother.

A (58:54)

With your grandma. What a grandma.

B (58:57)

Grandma.

A (58:57)

Oh, that's fantastic. Sarah, thank you so much for what you're doing. Thanks for sharing all that. You're learning. I mean, it's rattled off person after person after person that the only one I was familiar with is John ot. Now, I know he's not alive anymore, but I have one of his books, I'm pretty sure about Light. So, I mean, these are things that people may not know, Leptin, they may not know. So thank you for your constant education. I mean, it's everywhere, and it's so helpful for me, and I know it'll be helpful for the listeners. Thanks for being here.

B (59:28)

Thank you for having me.