Mackenzie Price (2:33)

Yeah, yeah, I, I started my daughters, I have two girls. They're awesome kids, which by the way, I think all kids are awesome. And when it was time for them to go to school, my husband and I sent them to our local public school district. We were both public school products and that's kind of just what you did. We have a really great public school in our area. But I just so quickly found myself frustrated by watching the experience that my kids were having in school. It's so hard for the traditional school model and I'll kind of talk more about what that is to me, but to meet kids where they're at and as you mentioned, you know, kids go to school from 7:30 in the morning until 3:30 in the afternoon. They're going to spend 13 years of their life five days a week, nine months a year. I think school should be a place that like unlocks potential. And what the experience that I saw my girls having was, it was kind of just holding them down and shrinking while what was possible for them. And most importantly, kind of taking that fire and passion and engagement and curiosity and dimming that. And I just couldn't watch that happen. I myself was one of those kids. I was good at school growing up, but I hated it. And so I was like, I can't watch my girls go through the same experience. And so back in 2014 I realized that it was a problem with the traditional industrial revolution teacher in front of a classroom model where, you know, when you think about that, Ginny, that was implemented to help create factory workers who would learn how to be compliant, do as they were told, follow directions, and that's just not what the world needs anymore. And so I didn't really see another option available. So I got together with some other parents and we decided to reimagine what school could be. And the answer that came out of that was alpha school.

Jenny Urch (4:25)

Okay, so talk about. So so now at this current point, and we're going to talk about this because I know you get a lot of pushback on it. This is an AI driven, individualized learning for these children. And you've got all the data to show that in two hours. And then for some kids who maybe are a little bit behind, there are a couple of grade levels behind, maybe it takes them three hours, but it is a very short period of time in comparison to the traditional school day. How they are learning faster, going farther in the short period of time, because this is right in line with where they're at. But in 2015, 14. But I could be wrong. What were you doing then? Because was the AI available?

Mackenzie Price (5:06)

Yeah, we. I didn't even know what AI was in 2014. What we were doing back then was we were using apps and doing app based learning that allowed kids to kind of go at their own pace. The big unlock for us came in 2022 when generative AI came out and we realized that we finally had a tool that could allow us to very specifically, specifically and precisely assess and understand what a kid knows and what they don't know and then develop personalized lesson plans that would take them to meet them at exactly the level and the pace that they needed to be led at. The other thing that's been really amazing about what AI has enabled us to do is we can take all of these learning science principles, like the science of how people learn best, and we can now finally incorporate them into the way kids learn. And then when we combine that with our motivation model, which by the way, Jenny, is the key to make learning great, that's where we're seeing that our kids are not just getting their academics done in two hours a day, but they are crushing their academics. Our classes are top 1% in the country in all grades, in all subjects. And really what that speaks to is the magic of being able to receive lessons at that level and pace that matches a student. And having our teachers, we call them guides and coaches, be able to focus on motivation and connecting with students and helping them learn growth, mindset techniques that enable them to be successful.

Jenny Urch (6:40)

Yeah, and one of the things you say is you're also on the cusp of being able to do academics based around a kid's interest. So like if a kid likes the Dodgers, I think that's a baseball team, then you know, they can learn their math through all, I mean, think about all the math that's in baseball. It's like the earned run average and all of that. And that is like the individual part of what would make learning so exciting for them and they could go deeper. And what you say, and I just love this is kids get back their time so they learn as much in two hours a day versus six hours a day plus homework. So actually it's not. I mean, where we live, the bus comes at 8 and doesn't come back till 4:30 for elementary school. Doesn't need and a.

Mackenzie Price (7:22)

Well, and remember. Yeah, and remember Jenny, you know, school is a bundle like parents send kids to school in part to be a daycare. Right. It is a babysitter. But just because kids are maybe gone all day at school, it doesn't mean that that time that those kids are in school should be wasted time. And that's the problem with the traditional education model is there's so much inefficiency and so little time spent. And I'll give you an example of that. When you think about a traditional school year, there's about 180 days of education. So, you know, think 180 hours of time spent in math class. Well, what we found, for example, in sixth grade, you can get sixth grade math done in somewhere around 30 hours. So when you're able to just go at that pace that you need, and not only that, but take a fifth grade student who maybe needs to go back and review third or fourth grade lessons, or take that fifth grade student who could be doing seventh, eighth, ninth grade math and meeting them where they're at, you can do it so much more efficiently. And then the magic part and what we call this time back is the rest of the school day is spent learning life skills and doing all these really fun, cool project based workshops where kids are able to grow and develop and spend time with each other and get mentorship. And I think that's really the magic of what families have really enjoyed about our school system is that these kids are getting prepared with future ready skills and they're getting time to just be kids and enjoy life.

Jenny Urch (8:55)

Yeah. And they're doing so many fun things like running food trucks. I mean, what in the world, you know, can you imagine being in physical fifth grade and being able to run a food truck? And like then PBS comes and does a whole story on your food truck. I've certainly seen the kids on your podcast. They're doing real world things. And I think every parent, like, I want my kids to have the basics. I don't want them to know nothing. But I also don't think that 15,000 hours of their childhood should go to sitting in a seat. And so you have come up with this alternative. Now let's talk about the AI piece because I am, Okay, I too am freaked out to a degree about AI. I'm gonna tell you what I'm freaked out about and freaked out about the job changes, but also that's part of life. You know, this has happened before. Nobody sets up bowling pins anymore. That used to be a job. So I'm freaked out a little bit about that. I'm definitely freaked out about the data centers. And I think that that's something completely different. I'm like, I'm hoping that you know, at some point all of our data is not completely collected. And like, I don't know. But I. So that's, I think separate. But I read this book, so I used to think like, I will take a stand, you know, like. But what changed my mind was I read this book by Jack Carr. It's called Only the Dead. It comes from this phrase, only the dead will see the end of war, which is a pretty interesting concept. It's a fiction book and the whole book was about using AI in the military. And when I read that there's a new book coming out called Cold Zero by Brad Thor. Same thing is all about like AI and military. Okay? Read those books and you're like, this is not going anywhere. Like this people are going, the train has left the station. This is not going anywhere. Because even if it was just needed in military, it's like people are pouring all sorts of resources in them to make sure that they're not behind. So you talk about how like, look, the Internet's got not going anywhere and there's awful things on the Internet and there's also really good things on the Internet too, right? Like, I mean, you can become addicted to really awful things on the Internet and there's, you can go down really bad rabbit holes and also you can have businesses and do all sorts of things. So can you touch on. I mean, I just think there's a lot of nervousness about AI.

Mackenzie Price (11:03)

There is so much nerve around just what does this world look like? And I think the question fundamentally that it causes people to ask is how is this going to affect my life and how can I adapt to it? And I think that's why it's so important that we teach our young generation and we ourselves need to learn how to adapt and be able to be well versed enough to learn to use AI as a tool and not be controlled by it. And so that is one of the other things that we teach our students to be able to use AI to give them superpowers and help them. Because as you can guess, our jobs are all going to change. I mean, like the majority of jobs that our kids are going to be doing in 20 years literally do not exist yet. And so it's even more important that we're teaching kids how to be adaptable, how to be creative, how to be great critical thinkers, how to communicate and be able to work with others. Those are the skills that need to be Taught. And I also will say, you know, a lot of times I, I hear from parents who say, well, gosh, in a world where everything you could learn is right there at the tip of your finger, fingers, and you have this ability to do that, what do kids really need to know? And my answer is that with AI technology, it is so easy now to provide a tailored education experience to make sure that we're filling kids brains with good information. Because they, let's face it, Ginny, let's make kids minds an interesting place to hang out for the rest of their lives. And so when you can do that in like a couple hours and then use all that academic knowledge to draw from to be great critical thinkers, that's kind of the key. And so I know it seems scary, but you are right. The train has left the station. It's going to be here. And the thing that's going to set people apart is knowing how to adapt and use those tools well.

Jenny Urch (12:52)

And I think you do a great job of bringing up all sorts of other things like the calculator and the Internet itself and even the printing press,

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you know, where people are like, well,

Jenny Urch (13:01)

this is going to ruin such and such. And it is, in some ways it does ruin certain things, but then it does enhance other things. And so if you look at this as to, to be able to have an individualized education, so we're a homeschooling family and even we've got five kids, it's hard to keep up with five kids at five different levels. But the, I think that the reason why home education often works, even if, like they say, even if the mom hasn't or the, you know, whatever parents doing it, the mom or the dad, even if they haven't graduated high school themselves, their kids tend to do really well. It's because it's personalized. And so that is what this is able to do. So you talk about how this traditional teacher in front of the classroom, you know, 25 students, I mean, it's never really worked that well.

Mackenzie Price (13:48)

It hasn't worked that well. And I think the other thing that we're seeing is there has just been this decay in standards across our culture and our society. You know, grade inflation is rampant. And you know, when you and I were young, you used to be able to get a C or a D that showed you didn't know material. Now teachers give out A's and B's like candy. Actually, in our local public school district that I used to have my girls in, they have changed it in elementary school. That they're now only going to and issue M's for mastered or A's for approaching mastery. Now there is a long, long space between approaching mastery and knowing nothing at all. And that is what it's going to do. And I think, you know, it's been one of those things where the traditional model has been shown it's impossible to meet 20 plus kids that are at completely varied levels. A teacher has the most impossible job in the world. And then you add to that the fact that teachers are leaving the field in droves because it's such a hard, you know, tough industry to be in, that that's been part of our problem is they just can't make education work. And you know, it's interesting. I think there's so many other industries that have been quick to change and move forward. You know, think about health care. You know, we're now at the point where people are realizing that, you know what, you can use a scan and have AI be able to tell if moles have changed on your skin and if you should look for skin cancer. Why would we not want to do the same thing when we think about what a kid is learning and how they're learning? And then you add to that the fact that there's so many different learning styles. One of the things that our students love in our model is that they are getting auditory support, they're getting visual support, they're watching videos and explanations of something that meets them where they're at. One of the common questions I get, especially from, you know, journalists who are really trying to poke holes in this, as they'll say, but eventually, you know, what if a kid just isn't understanding, you know, and they need a teacher to teach them. And there's two things I say to that. The first one is I think you have this mis memory of what's happening in a regular classroom. You think that teachers are like literally sitting next to every kid saying, do you understand that? Would you like more help with that? That's not true. You know, they're moving forward no matter what a kid understands or doesn't. But then the other thing, as I say, is just look at our results. And I think that would show that obviously it's a great way for kids to be able to learn. And then when you add to it the fact that we free up kids to learn all these other great skills and you know, one of the things that I was just at one of our schools in Santa Barbara, California and the kids spent an eight week workshop where they were growing their own food. Then they were actually using AI to teach them recipes for different food that they were. They were cooking. They, they started out homemade salsas. They were making homemade spices. Then they learned how to sell their food at the local farmer's market. And with the profit that they made, they donated that money to the Central Santa Barbara food Bank and were able to give money back, you know, to the community for. For food. And when you get kids, first of all, out there getting their hands dirty, learning about gardening and then being in the kitchen, learning how to cook, and then figuring out how to package and sell their goods at the farmer's market and getting that customer service experience. Experience, and then going and giving back to their community in that way. I'm just like, those are the kind of things that we need to learn. I think adults should go back to school and learn that kind of stuff.

Jenny Urch (17:19)

Yeah. And they're nailing their test scores. So it's all of it. I mean, you are totally shaking up education by giving kids their time back.

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Jenny Urch (19:02)

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Jenny Urch (21:23)

And I think, you know, we just become so accustomed to like their time has to be taken up by all of these things that adults tell them to do that we can't even imagine that when you have a 12 year old and all their time is not taken up with classwork and then homework. They are cool people and they're gonna go do exciting things and they have interest and they're gonna skateboard and they're gonna plant things and they're gonna try and make money and, and they're gonna have the time and the bandwidth and the energy to do those things. And you have all of these stories about, you know, you have One girl, she's 16, she's built a skincare empire. Well, why it's in how it's because she has the capacity. And that's what I feel like we've taken from kids. Any margin. They're so tired and it's all their time is taken up. So this is an actual building because you talk about, you know, this is part of it. It's like there are always going to be parents who are going to need to drop their kids off at the actual building. Can you talk about the. I just read this book, it's called Joyful Learning. Her name is Carrie McDonald and she's talking about similar to what you're doing. It's like parents are coming out of the woodworks and coming up with alternative ideas because they're like, the system is not working for my kids and we need more flexibility. And so she was saying, you know, obviously you have your standardized test scores. But she's like, there should be other things that we measure performance. Like, like, do the kids like it? Yeah. You know, is there unmet demand? Are they sharing it with friends? And one of them was teacher satisfaction. So I could imagine. I taught in the public schools. And I remember when I, you know, I taught math, I remember distinctly having a ninth grade student who didn't know what division was like, don't know. I don't know what that is, you know, and I was like, okay, like you know, we're, that's a, that's a ways back, you know, and, and you have to have that foundation to move forward. So you got all these kids are all different levels. Some of them are really shy, they don't want to ask questions, they're embarrassed. It's so many things going on and it is the most exhausting, never ending job. I would imagine that if you get to hang out with the kids and God, you know, you're not taking away the jobs of these teachers. You are like enhancing.

Mackenzie Price (23:39)

Yeah, I think that's something that I talk to teachers a lot. And especially when they're first learning about the model, they come with fear and they're scared their jobs are going to be replaced and they think, how in the world are we going to be, you know, able to serve students, you know, in this futuristic dystopian AI world? And then what they start to hear is, okay, there's never going to be a world where we want to replace the human connection with kids. Instead, we're transforming that connection. And you mentioned surveys. We are fanatical about surveying and understanding how parents, students, and our guides are reacting. And I actually just spent a lot of time yesterday going through our guide surveys that we did at the end of December and hearing about this. And one of the common themes was I am able to get to spend my time in the classroom connecting with kids. I was just at our sports Academy today and I walked by one of our students and his guide having a limitless lunch meeting that they were doing where they got to bring in a special, special meal and they're just connecting. And this is times when the guides are asking questions, just understanding what is exciting for this kid in this moment. What is he struggling with or what's he, what's he passionate about and using that time to get to know people. And I think that is so critical for kids. But also it's making that job of the adult who chooses to spend their career in a classroom which those people are heroes. Right? And they should be treated as such. Really special. But the other thing is, you know, yes, we're measuring things like how kids are doing on test scores, but we also measure things like how are they learning on their life skills, you know, development, Are they able to show that they have grit? I was just talking to one of our coaches at our Texas Sports Academy. She's a former WNBA basketball player and a coach for the New York Knicks. And she works with our kids on basically mental performance and understanding of that. And she was Talking about one of the life skills workshops is an agility combine where kids are doing all of these agility races and they're learning agility atomic habits, the idea of getting 1% better. And they're basically timing themselves at the beginning of the eight week. They're timing themselves at the beginning of the eight week session and then every week thereafter and able to see their measured progress on how they're doing. And add to that, they are learning how to make sure they're saying the right things to themselves, like understanding, you know, what I can put in the work, I can constantly improve. I am good enough. And, you know, being able to understand, you know, what is it that they say to themselves when they're challenged and how can we make sure that we're creating kind of healthy habits and mindsets? And those are things that I do believe that a school should provide an environment that helps kids develop all of those skills. And then, you know, the other thing I think is important and, you know, you understand this as a homeschool mom and probably even more when you were a public school teacher. You know, when my girls were first in the traditional school system, what I tried to do as a parent was supplement with time outside of school. So I would run after school science clubs for the neighborhood kids. And I, I was having kids, you know, work on these things outside of school. And at a certain point it just becomes too much, right? It's too much for the parent. It's too much for the kids to, you know, get picked up from school and go to piano lessons and then soccer practice and then, you know, work on a little supplement project. Where's time to eat dinner together and just play and be outside? Those are the things. And so I think one of the things that I'm excited about, you know, our schools are opening all over the country, and that's great, but, you know, it's a small number of people that we're serving. But I think what's happening is we are inspiring systems and organizations to realize, you know, what, it's time for school to be shaken up a little bit. It's time for us to take advantage of technology that allows us to, you know, help serve kids better. And I think we are on the cusp of seeing major change. I always say there's never been a more exciting time to be a five year old than right now. And it's gonna get better and better and better, especially if we as parents are willing to kind of open up and say, you know what, education can be different than what we grew up with.

Jenny Urch (28:00)

What a beautiful thing to say, Mackenzie, because I think a lot of people would think I'd be freaked out to be a five year old right now because we don't even know what jobs are coming. That is a beautiful thing to say. And I love hearing you talk about, you know, the WNBA player and the gardening and the. These kids that are podcasting and trying different businesses and you can see videos online. These kids are up and about and they're moving and they're interacting and they're interacting with people of all different ages. And this is the Unlock Potential piece that you talked about at the very beginning for your own kids. It's like we all want kids to have a childhood that has this unlocked potential where they, they leave and they're not just like, apathetic and drained and depressed and with tons of anxiety. So can you explain, for the, for those who, you know, are trying to grasp what's going on here, where are the locations? I mean, this is rather new, even though you've been working since 2014, but the AIPS, you were working with apps, and now the AI is helping just to guide, really guide you. Talk about. Well, we could talk about this soon, but, like, there's a whole dashboard with the Jenga thing and, you know, this is what the kids are doing. But, like, how many locations are there? I know you've got one that's outside.

Mackenzie Price (29:13)

Well, you know, we, like I said, we started the first school in 2014, and it was very much just kind of a homegrown school. And then in 2022, that's when we realized we had the ability to scale. And it's been a learning process. Right? We, we've had to work through. But what we found is that in 2024, we really had kind of cracked the code on how to provide this experience where kids love school and where they're learning faster and they're able to develop life skills. And so at that point, we started expanding. And so we've got four different schools in Texas that are Alpha schools, plus we have an outdoor school, a gifted and talented school. We've got sports academies throughout Texas, and then we have alpha schools in Florida, in New York, Virginia, Arizona, California. And we are continuing to open more and more. So I think we're at, like, probably 22 schools now around the country. And really what that's a testament to, is that parents are realizing, like, it's time for something better and different. And that's what we're working on. We're Also, you know, opening up schools at that. We're a private school, and we're opening schools up at lower price points. And like, one of the things that I think is really exciting is, you know, imagine how many families love sports. And our sports academies that we've opened up around Texas, with the educational savings accounts that are. That are coming to Texas, parents will be able to send their kids to these schools for a couple of hundred dollars a month. And that is going to help make this more scalable and more accessible to families, which is really an important thing to do. And then at the same time, you know, like our Alpha schools, which are really kind of a supercharged experience. You know, kids are getting to do things like learn adaptability and goal setting and teamwork from sailing and rock climbing and then going and doing, you know, V2 courses in Italy and, you know, sailing regattas. Like, there's just so many cool things that, that kids are getting opportunities to do. And I think, I don't know, growing up, for me, I grew up on a farm. I loved being outdoors. I think about how many skills I learned from all of those types of practical things, more so than just sitting in class, kind of going like this, listening to a teacher drone on. And so it's really been fun. And the best thing is just getting to talk to students. I was talking to one of our students today. The workshop they're doing is called Money Machine. And what they've done is they've. They've taken out a loan for a vending machine. And they have to go and find a business that's interested in hosting this vending machine. And of course, depending on the business, then they have to decide what they're going to stock, how they're going to, you know, price it, and they have to earn money. And so we're at the Sports Academy. They're going to go to a gym. And, you know, at a gym, you can't put candy bars in a gym. You got to put protein bars and waters and Gatorade zeros. And, you know, they have some energy, you know, goo and things like that that they're learning how to do. Plus, of course, they're having to call up businesses and say, hey, we wanted to see if we could host a. Host a vending machine. And there's just so many things that they learn. And it was so cute because this kid I was talking to, he's a fifth grader and he's like, we're learning entrepreneurship and we're learning how to build an llc. You know, and those are just fun things that kids really enjoy.

Jenny Urch (32:32)

Absolutely. And what a thing you have to deal with rejection. Someone's gonna be like, nope, we don't want your vending machine. This is incredible. I really can't wrap my head around the fact that you said generative artificial intelligence. This comes out in 2022. You know, I think there is a good portion of the population that's like, haven't touched it. You know, never done anything with it. And then other people are like, I've used it to make a silly video or whatever.

Mackenzie Price (32:57)

Yeah.

Jenny Urch (32:57)

But in that short period of time, you have 22 locations up this joyful learning book by Carrie McDonald's. She's demand is surging for alternative education options. Are you. How are you even figuring out? Like, how do you do that? Just expand. It's like an explosion.

Mackenzie Price (33:17)

Yeah. It has really been, and it's been a lot of fun. I'll tell you what, we're very fortunate that we have what we call our founding families in each city, because here's one thing, Jenny, that I think you'll find probably not too surprising, which is everybody wants to go to one of our alpha schools, but they want to go when there's 50 kids, and it's a special family that says, you know what? I'll be one of the first 25. You know? And I think the reason is because parents generally equate socialization with a quantity. Right. The better socialization with more kids that you have now. I couldn't disagree with that more, especially when you think about the way traditional school works. When you think about socialization, they just throw kids in and say, good luck. Hope you figure it out. Figure out your place in the pecking order. And I actually remember many years ago, right before we were getting ready to start the school, I read this book called Unschooling Rules. I'm sure you've read it. And in Unschooling Rules, one of the things it talked about was so much of the social learning that happens is actually negative social learning. You have to learn how to deal with the kid who pushes you up against the locker or the mean girls that are rude to you in class. And instead, I think that socialization is something that can be taught, can be coached. We help our kids learn how to build relationships, how to be interested in other people and how to be interesting, how to read body language, how to make eye contact, how to play games fairly and take turns. Like all of those kinds of things that are so important in creating relationships and so what's really been fun is to get to know these families throughout the country that have said, you know what, I'm willing to jump into what starts as almost a one room schoolhouse experience. Right. It's mixed stage kids, they're connecting and mentoring each other. And then of course as our schools get bigger, we're able to have kids be able to hang out in their same peer group. But I'll tell you what, it's really cool to walk into a classroom and you know, have two 7 year old kids sitting right next to each other. One of them is working on fast math and the other is doing algebra and they're can, you know, they're hanging out, they're connected, but they're getting that tailored individualized learning experience.

Jenny Urch (35:33)

Yeah. And if there's multi age experiences throughout the day, I mean I, Dr. Peter Gray would say that is one of the worst parts about the traditional school education is that kids can only hang out with people of their own age. I mean he would rail against that about how there's so many wonderful things that happen when you get to rub shoulders with people of different ages.

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Jenny Urch (38:30)

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Jenny Urch (39:32)

And the bullying is such an important part too. Because of all the books I've read, they talk about how bullying primarily stems from lack of control. These kids have nothing that they can control. And so what do they do? They are mean, they're mean to other kids. They can control that. You know, they're going to gossip, they're going to do all of these things. And so what everyone says is you can't change that. You can bring in every anti bullying program that you want. The baseline problem is that these kids have no control over their daily life. And so when you take away this top down standardized approach, there's no need to bully because you have freedom.

Mackenzie Price (40:09)

And I'll, I'll tell you actually something that is really cool to go in and see. In our schools, we've implemented a system where kids have a lot of agency and ownership over their culture and their environment. One of the ways that we do that is kids have what's called a town hall. It's a weekly town hall experience where they come together and they're able to, to basically, you know, bring up here's an idea I have for our community, or here's a, here's a challenge that I'm seeing in our community, here's a change that I would make and then they're able to have discussions about that. We implement a philosophy called both sides. If a person has some sort of a suggestion for, you know, something that they want to implement in the community, they have to be able to argue coherently why they think this is a good change. And they also have to be able to give the straw man argument for, and here's the disadvantages of it, or here's, here's the other side of that coin, and then the community can discuss and work together to decide what is going to be the right thing. And one of the things that we found that's so interesting, and I'll never forget the first time I saw this in action. We had a group of our fifth and sixth grade students in their town hall. They had made an agreement that if they hit a certain number of academic units as a group, on average, they would earn the ability to go to an escape room at the end of an eight week session. The head guide came out of this town hall meeting and she said, you know, they set the academic units at like, you know, 16 for the week. And our academic team was like, that's way too low. You know, that's not enough. They could do so much better. And she said, don't worry, just let it be for a second. Well, that was first meeting was on a Friday. The next Tuesday, they called an emergency town hall and they said, you know what, we set the goal too low. 16 is too low. Let's go up to 22. And then by the next Friday, one week later, they voted to move up to like 28 as their goal. Now, if our academic team had been in charge of the units, they would have gone at 24. So in the end, the group called themselves to a higher standard than even adults would have. And that's the kind of thing where, you know, kids really do call themselves and each other to a higher standard when they feel a sense of ownership. And everything we do is with that in mind. So, you know, at our schools, you're never going to see the, you know, the parent led, you know, Valentine's Day party. Instead, it's like the kids are going to say, hey, we're building this or we're planning this, or we're doing these things because you want to have kids feel that sense of ownership. And it's great practice for them. And, you know, it also just lets them be creative.

Jenny Urch (42:47)

Think about how many parties you throw as an adult. Seriously, to be able to start to practice that when you're a kid, I mean, all the agency, that's what kids are going to need in this day and age. You're going to have to be able to, to adjust to like, what life throws at you and can you figure it out? And I just think that in this day and age, if you have 15,000 seat hours where you are told what to do, you are going to have a hard time adjusting to this world. So if someone is listening and they're like, okay, I don't live in Texas or any of the states that you mentioned. What is their process for connecting?

Mackenzie Price (43:21)

Yeah, well, there's a couple of different options. We've seen so much demand for our homeschool program. It's called Alpha Anywhere. And so we have a lot of families that are plugging in to that program because they're able to say, okay, you know, we can do our academics. And I think the other thing, and you know this very well. There's a lot of families that I think would like to homeschool, but they themselves are like, I'm not a homeschool teacher.

Jenny Urch (43:46)

Right.

Mackenzie Price (43:46)

I can't do this it's actually one of the reasons I started a school, because I knew I couldn't homeschool my own kids, right? I was like, I need someone who's working day to day in the classroom. And so it's opened up a larger group of parents who said, now I'm seeing finally we have the flexibility that we need and the academic rigor to do this. And then the other thing that's happening, our founding families from around the country are joining together to say, hey, we've got enough people. Let's bring an Alpha to our city. So that's actually what's happened in several of the cities that we've opened in. We came because a group of parents got together and said, we will help bring this school to, you know, this. And I always say, we can bring the academics, we can bring the incredible guides, we can bring the life skills workshops, but we can't bring the community together. The community needs to come together on their own. And so. So that's been one of the things that's exciting. And I will tell you, I'm just amazed at what our parents will do. I've had parents who have been able to help us find real estate and parents who have said, I'll host info sessions at my house and get people together to watch your videos and learn about this. And so then by the time families come to one of our schools, they're coming really to just get to meet each other and to get to know our guides and other families and, you know, hear from students. And I think that's what's really special. So, you know, our idea, the other thing I will say, you know, and you think about this, this is so true. In so many towns, there's always some private school that's like the. The great private school of the town, and they're very exclusive, and there's only this much room for this many kids, and if you don't get in, you're in trouble. And they only take kids who are already the best or whatever. And I'm like, why in the world should we gatekeep great school experiences? And so that's the other kind of different philosophy that we've taken, which is if there's demand, we'll get a new building and we'll open another building and we'll keep growing and building that out versus keeping it tiny and exclusive. And I think the other thing that I just. I do like to get this out because I'm really proud of this. A lot of private schools won't accept A student unless they're already, you know, great academically. We can take kids wherever they come to us and we can help them. And I was just looking, we're doing mid year map assessments right now. And you know, we had a kid who came to us in the fifth percentile and he's up to the 60th percentile in four months and he'll be on track to be at 90th percentile by the end of the year. And you know, in a traditional system that kid would have been written off. You know, it's like, oh, sorry, that kid's just not that bright. He's never going to catch up and he'll only get, get worse and worse the effects as you move up through grades. And I just think it's really important that we meet kids where they're at and help them because, you know, it's, there's just no world where you should say, sorry, third graders kind of screwed because they didn't learn to read. And the. Yeah, exactly. A division. And exactly. The other thing that we see is that as you build competence and knowledge, you build confidence and there's nothing, you know, more beautiful to hear than when I'll have some student who says, you know, I used to hate math because I was bad at it and I thought I was dumb and now I realize I just didn't understand it. And it's actually really interesting and really fun and that is cool to help people fall in love with gaining knowledge.

Jenny Urch (47:06)

That young girl that had it as a 9th grade student who did not know how to divide, didn't understand the concept at all. That's a third grade skill. So she had gone through fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth grade and no one was able to connect with her about, about getting up to speed. What an awful experience for that.

Mackenzie Price (47:23)

Well, they just, they just can't. And you know, the 50th percentile senior graduates with as much math knowledge as a 99th percentile third grader. So that's the other thing is, is, you know, kids, if you're a 50th percentile coming into high school, you basically waste least four years of life in school learning almost nothing. Now you're getting pushed through pre calculus and geometry and calculus, but you don't know anything. And I think that's one of those things that's, that's really hard. And, and honestly, I just think kids are capable of being 90th percentile or above when they're given that right level of knowledge. And you know, and, and it's important to do because there's a lot at stake when we think about what our future needs to be. And, and we're going to need people that are again, equipped to use AI to help us build out the new frontier of knowledge. Right. What is it that's going to be possible? And I was actually just at one of our schools last week and they're doing a workshop that's basically colonizing Mars. So they're doing everything from growing plants, building rovers and doing radio lessons and food and they're recording sound because, you know, in Mars there's no sound. And so they're creating music and sound that they're going to be doing. And their test to pass at the end of this eight, eight week workshop is they're going to go out and they've got a dome that they built. They're going to go out to the desert and they're going to be staying for two days camping and they're going to have radio contact with our guides. But you know what, there's going to be a 20 minute delay in communication because that's how long it would take to get a message from Mars to Earth. And so in real time they're going to be getting to do that and talk about how fun is that? Like, I would love to go do a camp out with all my, all my classmates where we've put all these skills to the test on top of it. You know, they're learning to build fires and they're learning to cook food and you know, all that kind of thing.

Jenny Urch (49:20)

Wow. My favorite quote, I think is my favorite quote. I've said it before, it's by John Holt and he says living is learning. And, and when kids are learning, oh, I'm messing it up. He says, like when kids are living energetically and fully and happily, they are learning a lot. I may have botched it. It's something like that, even if we don't always know what it is. And that's the trade off. It's like, I would rather have a happy, energetic kid who's living fully and is learning all sorts of things. You're not going to be able to test what they learn from that unit. There's going to be so many things that happen in that unit that they're going to take with them that you're never going to be able to fully know what they learned or how it changed them or what they learned about themselves. But you can know that children who live fully are learning and that's the difference. I would say that the majority of kids today are not living fully because there's so much of this top down standardization. So who is coming up with these workshops?

Mackenzie Price (50:24)

Well, that's really an exciting part of what our guides do. Our guides are able to spend time coming up with what are these cool workshops that they want to focus on, how fun, you know, and that's everything. And then we also.

Jenny Urch (50:35)

Kidding me, what a different experience for a teacher. And I know it is, it is fun, but like, otherwise you're like, you have to teach this on this day.

Mackenzie Price (50:44)

It is fun. But you know what, it's hard, right? Because one of the things that you have to do when you're building these workshops is you got to make sure you're teaching a life skill. What are the life skills that you're actually teaching these kids? And the workshop also be, has to be something that kids enjoy because our first commitment is that kids love school. And so there's a lot of things. And you know, this is the other thing that's interesting. Adults have a lot of ideas of what they think kids should like, you know, kids should fall in love with Shakespeare, right? And kids should love the opera. And it's like, you know what, kids should absolutely get a exposure to all of those types of things so that they can develop an appreciation. But you have to do it in such a way that you help kids fall in love with, with all these interesting things. And so our guys are really good at that. We have a workshop team that also kind of centralized, comes up with that. And then we have a lot of things among this network of schools, like for example, our, our, our money machine vending machine workshop is taking place in a lot of schools, schools around the country that we have. We have a really fun self driving, coding car workshop that kids love. We're doing a go karting workshop that's happening around the country. Navy seal training. This was a really funny one, Jenny, that you'll appreciate. I was talking to one of the parents at one of our schools and she said it was magical to watch the, what we call a test to pass for this workshop. It was a Navy SEAL training workshop and the kids had to, you know, swim across the pool and then they had to drag a body 25 yards, take it out, do life saving measurements. Then they had to go free dive down 13ft, get something up off of there, do a math logic exercise while they were treading water, you know, and solve this math problem and then, you know, deliver that to the end. And it was judged by A retired Navy seal. And here's the other part of it is that. But this one parent, she had three children in this workshop. And one of the kids failed the workshop. He wasn't able to get it in the time that he needed. And you know what? There is so much that is learned through failure. And failure is something that traditional school does not encourage kids to get comfortable with. Right. When you think about, you know, just, you don't want to learn to fail you, you're having to practice being good and getting good grades.

Jenny Urch (53:01)

Grades, you get an A for approaching mastery.

Mackenzie Price (53:06)

Isn't that crazy? Approaching? I will tell you, Ginny, I saw that on a Facebook group page for a bunch of parents that were saying. And it was everything I could do to not just be like, you need to check out Alpha. This is cray cray, what you're doing. But I, I decided to let that go.

Jenny Urch (53:21)

Like, oh, my kid got all A's. Approaching mastery. Let's hit one more subject. So this is really helpful. I mean, it is you. You are a disruptor. I mean, you always hear about disruptors. You know, like, things have been the same for a hundred years. Compulsory education laws were complete in 1918 in Mississippi. That was the very last one. So it's been over a hundred years that we've had these compulsory school laws. And you're coming in and saying, look, we can do this a different way for the parents. And I think this is kind of humorous. They're like, oh, it's too much school screen time. I'm like, okay, well, first of all, kids are on screens for five to seven hours a day. And in the traditional classroom, I have heard, because I speak about homeschooling, there are parents that will come up and say, the reason we pulled our kid is because they were on a Chromebook the entire day. It was out on their desk. Their math textbook is on the Chromebook. They're reading. Every single thing that they did was on the Chromebook. And we pulled our kids because they could not stand it. And that's an entire school day, basically.

Mackenzie Price (54:22)

Wall Street Journal. Well, the Wall Street Journal just came out with research in May of 2025 that showed that the average student is spending about two and a half hours a day on a screen in class. That's not even counting what they're doing outside. And the worst part of it is that they're using technology just for technology's sake of being able to say, like, here's your textbook on a screen. Here's your Google classroom thing on A screen. Here's what you have to do on a screen. And my argument, Ginny, is that there is a huge difference in quality of what screen time is. Our students are getting this one to one mastery based tutoring experience that's keeping them engaged at the right level of interest, you know, for them. And that's different than I would argue, sitting in a classroom, live, zoned out, you know, watching a teacher understand that. And it's not just being on a screen for screen's sake. And so, you know, our kids are spending, you know, their, their 2x learning results. Last year we measured, they were actually spending about 1.7, almost 1.8 hours a day on screen. So it was even less than the two hours we say. And then again, you know, screens are a part of our life. They're going to be a part of them. And one of the things that we also want to do is teach our kids how to be creators and contributors, not consumers. So again, there's a huge difference between doom scrolling TikTok all day or, you know, playing video games and learning how to vibe code and build your own video game and then host a tournament or, you know, creating, you know, some sort of a, you know, a platform on TikTok that actually spreads a positive message. You know, those are the kind of things that we want to teach our kids to do. And you know, I was one of those families, we were screen free when my kids were young, young. And a lot of our families also implement that at home. But again, you can't just take a phone and lock it away from a kid forever. You need to teach them how to use these skills and create them as tools, not, you know, something that they can't be controlled by.

Jenny Urch (56:25)

Yeah. And you know, this is a 25 minutes of this, 20 minutes of that. You know, they're going from one thing to the next. It's all these subjects in 1.8 hours and then they don't have to use it again, they don't have to have homework work. I mean, I can't imagine trying to do my math with a textbook on a screen. So you can actually go on your website and see what this looks like. The other thing is that it gives insight to the parents and it's a very specific. You have said that 90% of parents think their kids are at grade level and they're not, they're like it. And then they need to get a tutor. It's too little, too late. I, you know, when I taught this was I taught like right before the programs came out where you could constantly see what your kids grades were. It was called like Skyward or Anyway, I'm sure there's all sorts of programs like that. So I was like kind of right on the cusp of that. And I called home a ton. Anytime a kid failed a test, I would call home. Anytime they were missing three assignments, I would call home. And the kids actually did really well. I felt like, because there's just a lot of communication with the parents and then. But the parents didn't know. They like, like, like oh, I didn't know and I'll help them with whatever. So this is like even way more in depth that the parent not only is a kid getting individualized learning and that's really what we've been after from the very beginning. That's, I think what helps homeschoolers be so successful is individualized learning as well as parent insight.

Mackenzie Price (57:51)

Yeah, and you know, traditional school, it's a black box. There's not a lot of understanding or insight into what it is. You know, you get grades that are sent home home by teachers and you get, you know, you get a parent teacher conference, you know, every eight or 12 weeks. What we are able to do is our parents are able to log into the learning platform and they can literally see what were the math lessons that your kid was learning today? What was the reading that they were doing, how did they do, how, how focused were they, you know, how much time did they spend? We have actually something called a waist meter on the ground corner of the screen where kids can even say, hey, you know, I'm wasting 15% of my time because I'm rushing through an explanation or I'm not taking my time to read something. And we're again teaching them that skill of learning how to learn and you know, take control of that learning because I think ultimately we want to have kids be self driven learners. So that's one of the skills. And then, you know, parents are able to see this. But I'll tell you a crazy scary statistic that we saw from firsthand in our schools. We had hundreds of students transfer into our alpha schools this year. And these are kids who are coming from, you know, nice private schools, you know, good public schools. And these are A and B students generally on their transcripts. And what we found on average that they were 2.2 grade levels behind. Now that's a scary wake up call for parents and for the kids. But all of those kids are on track to be ahead of grade level by the end of the first school year. And that just speaks to the magic of being able to handle that. But I think parents want to have more say and more transparency and more insight into what their kids are working on. And then I also think they want. What they appreciate about our schools is we're giving kids a chance to try out a lot of different things, to figure out what their passions and interests are.

Jenny Urch (59:41)

Yeah.

Mackenzie Price (59:43)

So Jenny, you've been so, you've been so nice to me. Is there any skepticism? I mean, you're homeschool mom, you've seen it.

Jenny Urch (59:50)

Yeah, I have no skepticism. I have none. I think that the biggest problem of our time is that we have stolen kids time. I mean, I would be, I'm fired up about that. I think that the kids are having awful childhoods because we have stolen all their time and we tell them what to do in every single almost moment of their day and then we expect them to adjust to a rapidly changing world. I think it's ridiculous this. So I've just been so drawn to the vibrancy of what I see from your students and this is even new. I mean, you've hardly been around and you can see like with the social media growth, to watch a kid be so well spoken in a podcast or an interview or to talk about their skincare company or to talk about, you know, if they're setting up these different vending machines or like that is what childhood should be. It should be equipping them to go after life and not just, just sit around in some apathetic environment where they hate it. And so I love what you say we give students their most valuable resource back time. Yeah, it is the most valuable resource that we have and we have co opted so much of it in the name of an antiquated system. And so it is such an honor, Mackenzie, to me, a disruptor, someone who's like totally changing it. I mean, it's incredible and I wish all the best to you and all that you're spreading that it does not have to be this way and that there are other ways. Whether someone is like, I'm going to do two hour learning or not, at least they're hearing, you know what, there are other ways to do childhood. And hopefully this challenges people to think maybe differently. Like at the very least, I say this all the time, like just don't do the homework. Could you maybe just take that step? We're going to skip that. We're going to play after school. You know, we're going to, we're going to just really embrace life.

Sponsor/Host Voice (61:36)

We're going to.

Jenny Urch (61:37)

To spend time as a family. We're going to read books because you're doing in two hours what other people are doing in six, plus homework. So huge congrats to you. It's called the Future of Education podcast where people can buy more. They can find more at the YouTube channel. There's also Alpha Alpha Anywhere and Two Hour Learning.com where you can go and just get a sense and you do a great job. I mean, there's a 20 minute. That video that I watched that really explained it very well. And you could actually see what's going on. And you see these kids and they are not sitting on their rear ends, just zoned out. They are doing really cool things. And we get one life, so why not do cool things with them? Mackenzie, such an honor to get a chance to meet you and to talk about all that you're doing. We always end our show with the same question. And you talked about it a little bit earlier growing up on the farm. What's a favorite memory from your childhood that was outside?

Mackenzie Price (62:26)

Oh, well, I'm a horse girl. I basically came out of the womb just in love with horses. And I was just thinking about this the other day. I used to go swimming with my horse tails all the time. We had a great river with a. With kind of a creek lagoon that had started, and my horse loved to go swimming. And so we would go bareback and swim. And it was. It was so much fun. I had a fantastic time. So I have so many great outdoor memories that are a lot of fun. I will tell you, kind of a gross one. My brother and I, I have an older brother, and he had me do crazy things. But we lived, you know, on a farm and there was a hog lagoon, pigs, and we used to think it was fun to go play in the mud, which was not actually mud. And then my dad would get so upset with us, and we'd always say, how did he know that we had done that? And it turns out the smell sort of lingered. But at age. At age 5 and 9, we didn't quite realize that the smell was as strong as it was. But I do laugh because I used to play in pig, you know, stuff. Yeah, it was a little kid and it was fun.

Jenny Urch (63:32)

And you probably have an incredible immune system because of it.

Mackenzie Price (63:35)

You know what? I must. Because that is. That's actually pretty crazy that I didn't catch something really bad from that. But yeah, I remember we'd wear big rubber boots and, you know, we'd be walking and then the rubber boots would get, get stuck and we'd, you know, get out and we'd just. I mean, we. It was bad. It was really bad. We were a porky pig from, from back in the day, that cartoon. So it was fun. Well, Jenny, high five to you and everything you're doing. I, I love listening to you and I just think it's. You also are just so inspiring to show families like what's available and get out in the world. And I'm gonna do that right now. I'm gonna go hang out outside.

Sponsor/Host Voice (64:08)

I love it.

Jenny Urch (64:08)

Mackenzie.

Sponsor/Host Voice (64:09)

Thanks for being here.

Sponsor Voice (64:14)

Toogood and Co Coffee creamers are made with farm fresh cream, real milk and contain 3 grams of sugar per serving. That's 40% less than the 5 grams per serving in leading traditional coffee creamers for a rich, delicious experience. Whether you enjoy your coffee hot, cold, bold or frothy, two good coffee creamers make every sip a good one. Two good coffee creamers. Real goodness in every sip. Find them at your local Kroger in the creamer aisle.

Sponsor Voice (64:41)

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