Ginny (2:09)

So where did the food content come in then? And we're going to get more into your Backstory, because I actually think there's a lot of lessons to learn from your backstory. But then you've got this really thriving food content and you're talking about real food and real connection and real exercise and real nutrition. When did that passion? Because obviously it's interesting you say you're not a good salesperson and you talk about that in the book, right? Like you try to do door to door vacuum sales. You know, you try and do these different jobs and. And I would say probably the same thing about myself. Like I don't necessarily feel like I'm a good salesperson, but in some ways you kind of have to be if you have a content creation because you're selling that lifestyle to X amount of hundreds of thousands of people. At what point did you realize this is a passion of mine?

Jake Woodman (2:55)

So I always liked creating things, working with my hands and being hands on. I think the first thing my wife and I were ever talking about because she's the baker, she likes to bake cookies and you know, banana bread, all this stuff. So I first thing I ever made was carrot cake. And I would make it for my mom's friends at work and stuff like this. And this was, I was pretty young, probably single digits and early, you know, 10, 11. So I started relatively young then. Obviously carrot cake isn't the healthy thing like I make now, but it is.

Ginny (3:25)

Delicious and it has carrots.

Jake Woodman (3:27)

Exactly. So it's basically carrot cake.

Ginny (3:30)

Sounds like a really healthy thing.

Jake Woodman (3:32)

And so then, yeah, later on in life, always liked cooking, making my own food. I grew up in the 90s and early 2000s where the 90s food pyramid was the, you know, central focus of many Americans diets. And then late teens, early 20s. My stepdad is diagnosed with Alzheimer's. And with that deep, you know, I have a great father as well. I always feel the need to mention that to not overshadow him. But I had an amazing stepfather as well. Went fishing a lot, introduced me to classic rock music and just, just amazing, amazing guy that I really looked up to. So was int diagnosed with Alzheimer's and I'm scouring the Internet like what can we do to slow this down to reverse it? I'd heard of it, but you. It's usually oftentimes mispronounced old timers or Alzheimer's or something like that. So I knew the basic gist of it affects your memory and it's usually only when you're nearing the end of your life. 70s, 80s, 90s. He was 58 when he was diagnosed Doctor said he probably had started the progression or regression maybe 10 years before that. So very young when he was affected with it, diagnosed with it and passed away. Actually I think the year of retirement, so about 7:65 and. But anyways, as I we find out about this, trying to figure out, you know, all these things and I kept coming back to food, diet specific or generally and then exercise. So the years go on and my wife and I are trying to. I'm trying to figure out, as you read in the book, I don't want to say failed, but in a business idea solo. Good that I gave up on and moved on and trying to figure out what to do. So I started. I was already cooking meals for my family every night. Wife and two or three kids at the time. And she's like, well why don't you just start recording some of these recipes and sharing them online. So I did that and quite quickly it caught on and was more of a need than I could have ever imagined.

Ginny (5:37)

And people can find all sorts of inspiration and ideas on your Instagram as well as on your website, which is jakewoodman.com so I'll make sure I put that in the show notes. But you've got like sourdough, sourdough for newbies, sourdough 201 butter, red meat, vegetables, canning, preserving, Taco Bell alternatives. You know what, how to use a cast iron pan, saving your seeds. So just lots of different ideas there that can really help people in their day to day life. And really such an interesting thing I thought. Okay, I'm hearing a weird sound in my ears. Are you?

Jake Woodman (6:09)

No, I don't hear anything. Is it. Are you hearing our chickens? Maybe? Is it? I don't, I don't think you. Is that what it is?

Ginny (6:18)

That's what it is.

Jake Woodman (6:19)

That's amazing.

Ginny (6:20)

We can just leave it in. That doesn't matter. Okay, so people are hearing so squawking in the background. It's chickens. That is so funny. I was, at first I was like, oh, it must be little kids. But then I was like, no, it's like very like the same. What?

Jake Woodman (6:36)

I can go. I left the door open because our dog usually get likes to get up and I'm like, man, if one of her delivery people shows up, she we'll.

Ginny (6:44)

Just leave it in. Okay, Everybody knows that, that the sound you're hearing is chickens.

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Ginny (6:48)

All right, off we go. So what's interesting to me then you being in this field of food is that food and alcohol so often go hand in hand.

Jake Woodman (6:56)

Right.

Ginny (6:57)

And this is the thing that you talk about and up is this addiction to alcohol, which I do want to really talk about because I think it's so prevalent. Alcohol is just everywhere.

Jake Woodman (7:06)

Yes.

Ginny (7:07)

In your story is really interesting because it started young and you know, like people let you drink at a campground and you're 14. And I think as a parent, sometimes people are like, oh, it's not a big deal. He'll just have a little drink. And. And that really was a snowball effect for you having that experience as a teenager. I mean, I think some parents also would be horrified. Why would you. But, but then there are some people that are like, what's the big deal? So I think this is important to talk about, but has it been difficult being in the food space? Because so often it's paired with drinking. Has that been hard for you or not?

Jake Woodman (7:41)

To your point about alcohol being everywhere, so is food. I just shared in a video recently, you go to Lowe's or Home Depot, a hardware store, and at the checkout it's your littered with a bunch of different convenience junk food type foods. And so the same with alcohol pretty much. I mean, everywhere, every gas station, you got the little bottles and all that stuff. And especially having, as we talked about earlier just a few minutes ago, growing up in Wisconsin, it's so normalized there. And really it's just a part of, I think, American culture in general, but especially in Wisconsin. I think that's one of the most accurate stereotypes of Wisconsin cheese and beer. So yeah, it's the, the ease and the convenience of it. And then too, in writing the book, you know, sharing about that story and trying to. I wrote it when I was 25 about. So this was roughly 10 years after that period and trying not to, you know, place the blame on my parents because it's still. We can nitpick about the, the different details that led me down that path, but really that was the point that introduced me to it. So yeah, really, I guess just the, the, the similarities between food and alcohol, how they are so easily accessible, how they're basically, we're surrounded by it every step we take, every turn we take, and it's hard to get away from it and makes it ultra challenging for anyone who does have any sort of predisposition or they're exposed to it early on with family or genetics or if it's just something that you personally struggle with as well.

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Ginny (9:15)

And what's great about it is that when you cook at home and you're making these different Things, you have those protective measures because you're doing things with your hands, it feels good. And then also you often you're doing it with a family member, there's that relationship piece and then you're pulling away from a lot of those addictive components that are in the ultra processed foods. So it's really a win, win, win. And it's remarkable. It's, you know, in day and age where, you know, if you go out to eat or whatever and they're always, there's always, always a drink menu, then you're, you're steering clear from that because you're doing a lot of your stuff at home and you don't have to deal with it. So people can find all these amazing recipes, like I said, on your Instagram and on your website. But I wanted to talk about this, this piece of childhood because I just Talked to these two boys that are in their 20s, these twins, and they were talking about this myth that if you're, if you don't expose your child to video games when they're young, then they're going to become addicted to them when they're older because they were not given that. Now they're going to binge, basically.

Jake Woodman (10:15)

Okay.

Ginny (10:16)

And they were saying, well, this is a reason why a lot of parents give their kids a screen because they don't want them to binge later. And they're saying this is a myth because little gamers grow up to be big gamers, but little musicians grow up to be big musicians. It's about those inputs that you have in childhood and how important they are. Yeah, I think it's really important I talk about, it's not really about blame because I'm sure it was just like, oh, whatever. You go on this camping trip, you're 14, you love going camping, there's a bunch of people there and they allow you to drink. And it becomes a lie. You know, you have to lie to your mom on this camping trip with your dad. And then you know, you're like, well, you're not going to really tell anybody about it. And it happened and it was fine and you threw up the next morning and on you go with your life. But then you get to school and it becomes a thing because it's like, oh, it's your little secret and you're going to tell somebody else. And it was this catalyst to several things. It was a catalyst obviously to drinking more, but it was also a catalyst to this thought that. And this is a big thought in this day and age that I don't have any consequences from these seemingly small decisions. So can you talk about how can you just talk to the parent? I guess. And it's not even just about drinking. It's about exposure. It really made me think about exposure when it comes to our kids and how, how something might seem very innocuous or not like all that big of a deal, but it can have these seeds that start your. Your life's path, like a different direction, a direction you don't want to go. It's these small decisions and then you end up in a spot that's really hard to get out of.

Jake Woodman (11:49)

Yeah, absolutely. That's interesting too, about the, the exposure of, you know, whether it's technology or alcohol or.

Ginny (11:56)

Or ultra processed foods or pornography or. I mean, there's a lot of things where, like this man named Dr. Nicholas Carderis, he talks about. And a lot of addiction psychologists and addiction specialists talk about age of exposure and how the younger the age, the more vulnerable you are.

Jake Woodman (12:15)

And I think too, with that is the nuance that goes into it. Like, I'm so glad you shared that part about the camping trip. Had I gone on to school that following summer, this camping trip happened. I think it was maybe early summer, gone on to school and sat down in study hall with friends who had, one of which who had a similar experience. Had I not. Whatever forces had that study hall arranged where I'm in that same study hall with the same person. Maybe that conversation happens at another time and place. Maybe it doesn't happen at all. And maybe my whole future is changed from not having that conversation. Because that conversation to give more detail to that was, hey, I got drunk this summer. The friend also chimes in and says, hey, I did too. First time ever. It was crazy. Two other friends who didn't have this experience are now curious about it. And we're like, well, clearly we gotta, you gotta share this experience with us. We gotta, we gotta let you into this, this fun that we had. And it turns into, you know, sparing more details in that story. But us eventually arranging a way for us to get together and drink alcohol at, you know, 14 or. I was one of the older kids in my grade. I was maybe 15 at that point by the time this happened. So had that not happened, maybe it doesn't occur in that way. So looking at the nuance in the situations of exposure, maybe someone else is exposed to it, or maybe I in an alternate reality universe am exposed to it, but don't have that conversation with friends that go on to create the Future actions of drinking pretty much every weekend from 14, 15 on throughout high school. So there are lots of variables like that. But I think to the parent who's listening for me, having that hindsight to look at that and saying, how could I have been prevented from that occurring is I'm always. My wife and I are always telling our kids there are going to be consequences. It doesn't matter if the consequence is something that you give onto yourself for feeling guilty, if it's something handed down from mom and dad, if it's handed down from an authority figure, whatever that looks like, a teacher, a police officer, um, there's going to be consequences. However, mom and dad can and will help you through those consequences. We are here. We're on your team. It doesn't mean we're going to try and lessen the consequences. It doesn't mean we're going to bail you out of jail. It means we're going to be there for you, we're going to love you. We're going to do those things. So to boil that down, just building that trust and relationship with our children, because I didn't have. I shouldn't say I didn't. I had a parent who knew about it because obviously my dad was there, the drinking incident, but he was kind of affirming it or being okay with it. I couldn't go to my mom. Had I felt like I could go to my mom and say, hey, mom, this happened. And my mom, you know, gives me the love that I needed and says, hey, that's obviously wrong. We're not going to do that anymore. Maybe that nips it in the bud right there. So that's what my wife and I try to do, is make sure that we have that open area of communication. You're going to make mistakes. Any of the mistakes you've already made are nothing compared to the mistakes that you're making likely going to make in the future. Just know that as long as you come to mom and dad and you're honest with us, and you're honest throughout your whole life in all situations, it's going to make the situation a lot less worse than it could have other been had you lied about it or just not came to us and told us.

Ginny (15:44)

Yeah, and you just have some misconceptions, too. I mean, you're 14, 15, 16 years old and you're like, oh, there's really not any consequences to what I'm doing because I never get caught. And you. Then you end up driving as well. I mean, this is. I Mean, this is a story. You feel the pull, you feel the pull of the addiction in your story because you think, okay, well, this is going to be rock bottom. You end up evade, you know, you're like evading a police officer. And then you, you know, you end up in jail. You end up in jail for three days. You're like, you're pacing, you know, you're playing cards with these other people that are in the jail. And it's like you're, you know, your jail initiation. Here you are, and you think, well, gosh, of course he's going to leave and change his life. And then it just, nope and nope and nope. You're back at it. You know, you get a, you get a break from the judge and you know you're supposed to be sober and you just go home and drink. So you just feel how strong that addiction is. And it's just such a reminder of how important it is to monitor our kids exposures to things when they're young because this led to a very long battle for you. And even still you say, gosh, I wish I could drink like a normal person who doesn't have this, you know, prone to addiction. But a lot of people are alcoholic. So yeah, there are a lot of people who really struggle with this. And then it's everywhere. So it's something really tricky to deal with. And so you read, you know, your story and you like, oh, you think this is going to be rock bottom? Nope. And you're like, well, this will for surely be the rock bottom.

Jake Woodman (17:07)

No.

Ginny (17:08)

And so it finally gets to this point where you're completely out of money. And, you know, it's a lot of loss along the way and sometimes, often, you know, we just, you can't see in the future. So I think you have to be pretty protective over your kids. As the summer winds down, I'm feeling that bittersweet shift. Saying goodbye to lazy days and getting.

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Ginny (20:56)

It's a good story to read because it's a reminder that small things can snowball over time and put a kid in a really rough position. Obviously, that was never your dad's intention or whoever you were camping with. Of course, they're not thinking down the road and being like, oh, my gosh, in eight years, he's going to be, you know, driving intoxicated and trying to get away from a cop in the snow. No, no one thinks that in that moment. And I think with a lot of these things that are very addictive in our day and age, I think we have to be overly cautious. So the last draws is $20. I mean, you even had a situation where, where you woke up in the morning, you're like, you don't know where you are. You look around, you're still in the bar. You'd fallen asleep in a booth. And then you said you were only wearing your socks in your underwear. You're like, you don't even know where you're. You're like, where are my clothes? It's like that Lego movie like, where are my pants? You don't even know where they are. And you're like, but that wasn't even the rock bottom. So it's just such an important reminder. One thing that you said that really stuck out to me was you talked about. Now Brittany comes into the picture. She seemed to be kind of the. A pretty big catalyst for change. Absolutely right. You're like, I really want to change my life for this woman. And you said this. Your eyes were open to the fact that alcohol wasn't a prerequisite to having fun.

Jake Woodman (22:19)

Yeah, right. What a mind blower.

Ginny (22:22)

I mean, you learned that, what, in your 20s.

Jake Woodman (22:25)

Yeah.

Ginny (22:26)

It's really heartbreaking to think that you could go so long A person, anyone could go so long in their life.

Jake Woodman (22:34)

With that misconception, especially when it had come. So, I mean, basically 10 years of that drinking and fun being paired together, being inseparable. And yeah, the first time really spending quality time with another person and there was no alcohol involved, it's like, oh, well, that was enjoyable. Maybe we should do that again. Because we didn't do any drinking and we just literally went to a park and hung out and just walked around and looked at geese and ducks.

Ginny (23:03)

You're, like, shocked.

Jake Woodman (23:04)

Yeah.

Ginny (23:05)

You're like, we had fun.

Jake Woodman (23:06)

Yeah.

Ginny (23:07)

And now in your life, now you're a dad. You obviously have chickens and a dog and a wife. And, like, are you. You're having fun without alcohol. You're making incredible food.

Jake Woodman (23:17)

Yes. Yeah. Even hearing the story, I. I didn't forget about it. But the story of waking up in a bar in that booth and having to roam around until I found my clothes and unlock the door and let myself out of it, it just. That's why I think there's all these, like, personal development quotes of don't look in the rear view mirror. You're not going back there. Which is true. Like, don't dwell on it. Don't sit there and try to convict yourself over something that happened in the past. Again, now being a Christian is which. I wrote that book when I was more of an agnostic, and most of the book took place when I was an atheist. And now being a Christian, like, been forgiven. Forgiven of everything. And that grace is a huge part of me being able to turn my life around as well and not feel guilty over it. But also, it's still crazy because that is very much. That was, I think, let's call it 10, roughly 10 years ago, not that long ago. So to think that roughly 10 years ago I was at that point in my life. And it seems too, if you're looking in your life right now with you or a son or a brother, I get plenty of messages whenever I do share something about my story, like that of, you know, my brother's battling addiction right now. Like, if she, if, if whoever messaged me were to go to their brother and say, hey, in 10 years you're going to look back on this like, that's. That's depressing. That sounds. That'd be crazy to tell someone that in 10 years your life's gonna be completely different if you just take this one small step right now. Then again, at the end of the day, you still gotta take that one small step that puts you on A different path than what you're doing right now.

Ginny (24:52)

And it is interesting. It's just such an interesting society that we live in. And you talked about it, you were like, okay, you know, there's all sorts of addictions. This man, Ian Morgan Cron, wrote a book this year called the Fix, where he goes through the 12 steps for anyone. And he has this list, Jake, of like 600 things you could be addicted to. I mean, it's just, you know, everything from gambling to food. I mean, so I'm not standing here on my high horse. I, I struggle with food. That's my situation. So everyone has these things that they could be addicted to. But you say how alcohol, of all of the things, like, if you're addicted to food, people are like, you're fat and lazy. You know, if you're addicted to gambling, people are like, you are, you know, you're losing all your money. You're so irresponsible. You know, these other addictions, if you're addicted to drugs, people have a negative connotation to that. There's negative connotations surrounding pretty much all of the addictions, really. Except for alcohol.

Jake Woodman (25:50)

Yeah. In the, in the bar of which, again, this could be my experience having grown up in Wisconsin. And it's so funny because I just commented this on a friend of mine post who said. I forget what the post was even about, but I basically said, what I'm about to say is that you, you pretty much have to have yellowing eyes, be in liver failure, missing work, and just be a complete down on, like down and out low life to be. For anyone to even be like, yeah, he's probably an alcoholic. It gets rebranded somehow. We've, we've like rebranded it and, and it's, it is sad because it's like the functional alcoholic, which, the functional comes before alcoholic. Like that validates. Yeah, he drinks a lot. But have you seen the guy work? Are you kidding me? Like, he, he can, he can swing a hammer, he can do whatever and he's bombed out of his mind. Or the. Yeah, just the, the threshold at which you have to be basically on your deathbed to be considered an alcoholic. And that's what kept me from acknowledging and being so honest with myself for so long because it would just, it was this slow progression from, well, I just can't drink Jack Daniels. Every time I drink Jack Daniels, I black out, I wander away from my friends. I mean, you, the story of it being in Ohio, wandered away from my friends, lost the key to my car, was a specific Type of car that the key needed to be had to get my brother to come down from Wisconsin and tow my car and my sorry butt back to Wisconsin. Go down to Ohio to tow back to Wisconsin. And so there's all of. Anyways go from. From Jack Daniels to like, okay, well, I just can't do this. Okay, well, maybe I have a slight drinking problem. And then my wife, after one night on our wedding shower of me losing my mind and being an absolute. I mean, she should have. The fact that I can now say my wife is a miracle in and of itself.

Ginny (27:41)

I mean, yeah, you were. I mean, really mean.

Jake Woodman (27:43)

Really mean. Yes, really mean. And for childish, addict like reasons. And, you know, after that, I was like, okay, probably should get some counseling because I might be an alcoholic. And even when I wrote this book and started posting online, friends and family messaged me like, dude, you're calling yourself you weren't it? I hung out with you. You weren't an alcoholic.

Ginny (28:06)

After a dui. Yeah, it is wild. It is really wild. It's something to be aware of, especially with our kids and how we're raising them. Because you said my behavior while drunk was accepted, viewed as entertaining, and even celebrated. Well, they've always been a drinker. So it's just. It's interesting. It's interesting how it is in our society. I didn't grow up drinking because my grandpa was an alcoholic. And my mom always said, you don't know if you're going to be prone to that. So she said, don't even ever have a drink. Just don't even do it. So I didn't grow up. I never had anything. And I turned 20. When I turned 25, it was like married already, you know, and people were always like, you've never had anything? You know, people would ask her, no, I've never had anything. So they were with friends, like our church friends. A couple was like, we went on a double date and they were like, you know, you should have some of these drinks. And I thought they tasted disgusting. And also. And I'm not trying to be on my high horse because like I said, I have issues with food, but I thought it tasted disgusting. And then I threw up. I threw up. That night in the shower, I was like, why do people do this? That was the only time. I mean, I'm like, I didn't. I felt like I couldn't reign in my behavior. Like I, you know, I felt like you just do things and, you know, kind of, you're like, normally, I wouldn't do this, but you can't really bring it in. And I didn't like that feeling. And so it really is an interesting thing. It's just a decade later, right, Jake? Like, you have yours at 14. I have my first drink at 25. And what a different experience because I was like, I don't want this as a part of my life. I feel that about a lot of things. Like, I didn't grow up wearing makeup because my mom wanted me to wait till I was 16. Well, by the time I turned 16, I was like, this takes up too much of my time and energy. You know, I'm hardly going to ever do it. So just that early exposure, it's something to know about. And especially because alcohol is just kind of, oh, whatever. And. And there is a lot of drinking surrounding outdoor activities, like some of the free ones or cheaper ones, like camping and stuff out on the water, like people that are tubing down the river. There's just a lot of alcohol. And I don't know why that is.

Jake Woodman (30:12)

Yeah, I think it's just part of culture. And I mean, you look at. I like to think I'm somewhat immune to advertisements, but you look at the advertisements, it's all social. It's a social thing, you know, at the party or whatever it is, and gathered around people and it's. I mean, you talk to anyone too, who has an honest take on alcohol. It's just something, again, that you really can't get away from because it is everywhere. It's at the birthday party, it's at the Christmas party, it's at the wedding, the work party, the wedding, the. The camping trip. It's everywhere.

Ginny (30:44)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I. The book is really eye openening and just a reminder that kids, the younger they are, the easier it is to become addicted. So alcohol is not a prerequisite to having fun. You say things like this in your book. Immerse yourself in the world around you. Put down your video game controller, shut the TV off, quit consuming the news, get off your phone, go outside. Go outside and go immerse yourself in the real world. So one of the things you brought up earlier, which I thought was such an important one, is that you can live life and have all of these regrets. You could have a lot of regrets. I mean, you blew all this money in Vegas, you know, and now you're a dad. I mean, I think we all have these things where you're like, oh, if I could go back in time and have that money back. There's a lot of things I Could do. There's a lot of chicken coops I could build or whatever. So you could live life with all these regrets. But you say one of the things that's really helped you is having gratitude. And even for these experiences that maybe could have gone a different way because they've helped you get to where you are and you have these life lessons. Can you talk about the power of gratitude?

Jake Woodman (31:43)

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, what I say in the book is the. I have kind of a metric for a regret. It has to be something. I've smoked cigarettes in the past, as I share, so there's nothing to be learned from putting a cigarette to your mouth. Can it provide some stress relief or benefit? Sure. But it's overall, unequivocally harming you. So I do regret ever having picked up and touched a cigarette. I have the same views on cigarettes before, during, and after smoking them. But for driving drunk, do I. Am I grateful that nothing ever happened? That the hundreds of times I drove drunk, you know, it's still a punch in the gut every time I say that. But at the end of the day, having been arrested and pulled over, most people, even as, as you read in the book of me meeting with the officer, giving him a copy of my book and writing an apology letter to him, he wrote a letter back to me and said, I've received a lot of letters in my day from people, but they've all been court mandated. I've never received one from anybody who's voluntarily wrote one to me. And it actually went kind of viral in my local town. It's a pretty small town in central Wisconsin. And so essentially, gratitude for that, for being pulled over, who's going to say, yes, I'm so grateful that I was pulled over and arrested and put in jail and then further down the line, fined and had to serve more, I was on house arrest, but essentially more jail time. So looking back on those situations that you learned a lesson from not necessarily being grateful for the choice you made or the stupid actions that you partook in, but the outcome, the lesson that you learned and having gratitude for that kind of unlocks or opens the door for that lesson to be learned. If I were to just sit there and say, you know, yeah, sure, he pulled me over and whatever in the moment, did I learn my lesson? Absolutely not. But it was just one more step in that direction of this has gone on too long. I hate the way my life is. I know this isn't what life is supposed to be. And if you can shift from a Mindset of either regret or what could I have done differently? Or all these different things. And you just say, it happened, it's behind me, and now I'm going to do my best to put one foot in front of the other. And you're grateful for that. It really just that simple mindset shift. It's the cliche thing of. It's the little things that really turns out to be the big thing.

Ginny (34:08)

And there is a lot to be grateful for. I have a good friend whose father was killed by a drunk driver when she was nine. He worked midnights and was coming home from work. And you just think about how unbelievably changed that. And, you know, now she's an adult. But that little girl's life is, you know, you do. You're waking up from school, you know, waking up to go to school, and your life just is completely different for forever. And so I think there can be a lot of gratitude for the consequences that didn't happen and then also for the opportunity to share such an important message to parents. And, you know, I have no idea who listens. You know, you have no idea. It's tens of thousands of people that listen. And, you know, maybe it's a message to a parent to like, really be extra cautious. Cautious around these addictive things. Maybe a child is listening because a lot of kids listen with their parents and they're going to be in a situation. Just don't do it like there. You don't need alcohol in your life at all. I have got such a wonderful life. And I have, you know, and I did that drink at 25. I. It's like, it's not a part. It's not a part of my life. And I have nothing I'm missing, you know?

Jake Woodman (35:22)

Right.

Ginny (35:22)

There's nothing missing. So I think there's gratitude for when you do step out and share your story of how powerful that can be to help people in their situation. So gratitude is a big thing for helping. For anybody who has regrets. You, you know, you learn about this in the book, how gratitude can help you to move through those in a way that is positive and can help you to get to the spot that you want to be.

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Ginny (36:57)

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Jake Woodman (36:58)

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Ginny (37:18)

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Ginny (37:22)

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Sponsor/Ad Voice (38:55)

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Ginny (38:55)

It's the books, it's the podcast, it's the audiobooks. Can you talk about those two books? And then I want to talk about the Tony Roberts Tony Robbins podcast episode where you talk about the like the six human needs. So these things really start to shape you. What are those two initial books Real?

Jake Woodman (39:13)

First, just to touch on the grace part. Absolutely. Looking in hindsight, that's something now at the time I would have been like, oh, this is all just a coincidence. Of course it's. Everything's all a coincidence. Just happens to perfectly align and then you look back and it's like, yeah, it's just pure the hand of God and grace. You might have to refresh my. I know the one book is probably still like an artist.

Ginny (39:33)

Yes, it is on our show twice. And I love Austin Kleon. I was really interesting set of two books. It was still like an artist and it was. Hold on, I wrote it down. Start Something that Matters by Blake Makowski, the founder of Tom's Shoes.

Jake Woodman (39:48)

Okay. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Ginny (39:50)

Which those are to me kind of random books, actually. So like if, if I were looking at a sort of a self help book and I was like, I'm not gonna have anything to do this weekend. What books should I get? It was interesting to me that you picked those two, but they're about creativity, so it's in. That's what you do now. So you, you must have known that inside of you you have more to offer and you have this creative spark that's not coming out because you're drinking so much.

Jake Woodman (40:17)

And that's the power. Maybe the craziest thing about addiction too is I think that's what allowed me to keep the hope throughout. Even the lowest of lows as I share sitting on my green leather couch in my house. And my best friend comes in and he says, jake, what the F are you doing with your life? I mean, I've drank with him plenty of times and we were. He was just one of my best friends that could look at me and be honest with me. But throughout all of that, I always knew. I mean, when I was in like high school, you know, around the same time I started drinking, I was selling things on ebay. I would buy big bulk boxes for 60 bucks and it'd be a bunch of random stuff and I'd, you know, individually sell each little thing for $10 here, $20 there, and, you know, make maybe $100. So I've always had this kind of entrepreneur, entrepreneurial, creative hustler, if you will type mindset. And so, yeah, I get. I think Tom's was pretty new at this time, but I liked the business model of One for One. That's probably what caught my eye on that. I'm surprised that was the second book. That's not what I would have guessed. I didn't remember. But it is a very good book about just taking really, just the evolution of his business, of how it started out and how it went on. But Steal like an Artist is still a book I recommend all the time, all the time to any creative individual. Really. It does. It really transcends creativity too. Because if you're just. I don't. I shouldn't say just. If you are a low level, entry level employee at a big corporation, whatever it is, it allows you to think about really creativity and your own. Just look at the world differently. Everything. The basic premise is that there is nothing new under the sun. You know, that's. That's basic biblical principle, but also that there's nothing new under the sun. Everything that is, has and will be created was just little bits and pieces stolen inspiration from other pieces that came before it. Whether it's this podcast, whether it's my cooking content, whether it is anything, the. The greatest piece of art that's hanging up in a museum. It's all just bits and pieces of inspiration with the creator's own flair and unique aspect that only Ginny and Jake can bring to the world.

Ginny (42:37)

Yes. And what you said was they made me realize both books, I didn't need approval from anyone to create the life I wanted to live. And then here you have become this cre. This creator of beautiful food, of the sourdough of. And creating beautiful family experiences. So I think it's really Cool that those were the books that you started with, and you knew. You knew that that was in you. And Austin Kleon has got show your work, which is what you're doing, right?

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Ginny (43:07)

Put it out there. And he has keep going, which is also what you're doing. You know, you just keep putting these things out there. And he told me he has a book coming out next year. I think it's called don't call it art.

Jake Woodman (43:19)

Okay. I'm intrigued.

Ginny (43:21)

They talked about he learned from his kids. Because I think the point is, like, once you call it art, there's pressure surrounding that. And basically, kids just play and they create without any sort of external pressure. And so I think it'll be good. I think it'll be a good one. And I think that that series is a great one to give to a high school graduate. You know, you would give them the stack of books. They all go well together, and it inspires. So you read these books, and then you start getting into podcasts and other forms of personal development that give you a greater sense of control over your life. You say you're a podcast addict. One of the ones that was really transformative for you was this one with Tony Robbins where he's talking about why do we do what we do? And he talks about these six human needs. So it's certainty and uncertainty, which is confusing, but the uncertainty is like, you need variety in your life, which. What's so interesting to me about that, Jake, is that, like, with the drinking, there really was not that much variety. It was just like blackout. Blackout. You know, it seems in some ways like it's very much the same. The same, the same, the same.

Jake Woodman (44:24)

Oh, absolutely.

Ginny (44:24)

So, anyway, that was interesting. But certainty, variety, significance, love, growth, contribution. These are six human needs. Can you talk about how the cooking is provide in the. You know, being with your family and making these meals? Can you talk about how that, in a different way than alcohol, in a much more positive way, provides for a lot of the human needs?

Jake Woodman (44:45)

Yeah. And as I share equally about the food, the quality of the food, using, as I say, whole food ingredients, using ingredients to create a recipe is also sitting down to enjoy it with people you love. If you're a single guy or gal, you sit down, you invite a friend over, invite your neighbor over, step outside your comfort zone. I don't know if I wrote about it in the book at all, but there's a saying in the military of embrace the suck. And it's. You can expand it and embrace. Expand it and adapt it rather for any sort of situation. It doesn't mean you have to embrace a bad situation. That is generally what it means. Because in the military there's plenty of times where you're like, well, this is just a crummy situation. Well, we just got to the best way through it is just head on. But it could also mean you don't want to invite your neighbor over. Maybe he or she is a little awkward. Or it's just like, I'd rather just sit here and watch my show and, and munch on this food that I made. But if you sit down and enjoy that food with someone else, you get the community. You cannot deny whether you are a science based person or a faith based person. I mentioned those two, not if they're not that they're at conflict with one another. I think the accurate mindset, the right mindset is they pair perfectly. But oftentimes in a worldly view, science and faith are at odds with one another. While I don't believe that's accurate, but whichever one you put more faith in is we need community. And I think now we're at a more lonely time. Whenever we have AI, we have VR, we have ar, we have all these things that substitute for real connection with real people. And having most many people having grown up in the 90s or early 2000s where we were still sitting down before fast food and fast casual dining took over the world, people were sitting down and enjoying food at the dinner table. I get comments all the time of people saying, you know, that's some of the best memories I have. Even though there's no specific memory I personally have of sitting around the dinner table. But I remember the general feeling of gathering around that dinner table. So I think you get kind of some of that significance out of that. You get variety or certainty and uncertainty of sitting down with someone. If you're inviting someone new, you get certainty that hopefully you get a level of connection with them, you get a level of companionship with that person. That's the certainty. And the uncertainty is this person has lived, let's say they're 25, they've lived 20ish years of life that they're going to be able to tell you about. And it's going to be different stories and different connection every time you meet with them. So you get that variety that way. You get the love and just companionship and, and all of that wrapped up in it. So you got food and the community and connection with another human being or your family. Yes. Or a guest yeah.

Ginny (47:34)

And I love it. I love. I love taking that framework and saying, how can I provide this for myself or for my family in a way that's more healthy? And you. Then you talk about like, I talked to these boys.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (47:44)

I guess I did.

Ginny (47:45)

I bring them up already. These twins?

Jake Woodman (47:47)

I think so. Yeah.

Ginny (47:48)

Yeah. At the beginning. So they were like, well, look, if they were like, if. Play the piano. If you get bored too much, play the piano. There is an endless amount of pieces that you can learn on the piano. It's never going to end. And it's the same with cooking. Like, there is an endless amount of things that you can make that content could go on forever because you can always be trying different combinations and different things and it helps with the novelty. So at this moment, you do a lot. You're even doing canning what's on the horizon. Like, oh, I want to try this. Something I haven't tried before. This is intriguing to me.

Jake Woodman (48:22)

So the. A big part of my content too is I try to make it. Other creators will say this too, but basically, food that anyone can make. I'm not making these. Like, first of all, I'm filming it all on my iPhone. I'm not trying to make it super high production for one, because it works for me because I have four kids usually running around and they're playing and they're in and out of the house and I'm having to tell them to take their swim trunks off outside the door. So all of this. But also, you know, some. A lot of content creators, which everyone's allowed to create whatever content they want. I'm not knocking it, but they'll have this like six patty hamburger and all this. I'm not trying to create something for clicks or likes to get attention. Could I do that? Absolutely. But I'm making something for my family. I'm not going out and recording special content. Will I. If I get requests for something, will I go out and record that? Absolutely. But. But I'm not recording special content just for my social media. It's literally the food I ate two nights whenever I get it edited, you know, last week or two nights ago, so.

Ginny (49:26)

Which is actually amazing because you got kids, so you have to eat meals every day.

Jake Woodman (49:31)

Yes, yes. So the. It varies. Sorry. It. It focuses around that. It's just the food that I'm feeding my family. So it isn't this extravagant meal that I'm putting together. It's often, you know, my oldest likes Asian, so some night he'll want to decide what's for Dinner and he'll choose, you know, fried rice or something like that. So it's very. For the most part, simple meals usually can be made in under an hour because we're all. Whether we have a full plate or not. Somehow the, the time that we have is. Seems to be shorter than ever. So, you know, usually made in under an hour. It takes me a little longer because I'm having to set up and move camera shots and stuff like that, but roughly an hour and, and then just also, I don't. My wife doesn't eat pork because of an incident that happened when she was a child when she went over to one of her friend's house and saw one of their pigs get slaughtered. Just scarred her for life. So don't include a lot of that just out of that. That I don't have to exclude her from the meal. But yeah, chicken, beef and occasional fish and stuff like that. But. And also just not getting away from a lot of the things that have failed us as, as Americans specifically. But you know, the whole diet fads. I'm not carnivore. Will some meal be, you know, just a, like steak? We're in a hurry and I got some steaks, thought we're going to cook them up and slice them and eat? Yes. But there's no carnivore, there's no vegan, there's no, you know, if I happen to make a meal that is, it's just because it is. It's not because. And you know, same thing. People will comment like, what are the macros on this? What are the calories? It just complicates life for so long. We didn't do any of those things. We didn't count macros, we didn't count calories. We didn't. We just ate good food and we sat around and enjoyed it with good people.

Ginny (51:27)

With other people. Yeah, yeah. I mean it's, it's an important point. What has happened to the chickens?

Jake Woodman (51:35)

They just are. They're goofy things. I love them anymore. Okay, awesome. No, they're perfectly fine usually. So after they lay an egg, they will do this, like that noise you are hearing. And they'll just go around. I don't know if they're. We have one rooster, so I don't know if they're some sort of signal to him that, hey, I'm out, you need to come collect me and bring me to the other, the other ladies or what. But yeah, after they lay there.

Ginny (51:58)

That's so funny. So for about 15 minutes there was like something Going on. And now they're off doing.

Jake Woodman (52:03)

And you know what's even funnier? My wife just brought it to my attention last night. I think I know which chicken it was because she is a very high maintenance little lady. Her name is actually Ginny and I. It's because I used to work at a gas station when I was younger and she's. She's smaller, so she made me think of these old ladies that would always come into the gas station and get Virginia Slim's cigarettes. I'm like, oh, we should name her Virginia. I was like, that's a cool name. And then I was like, no, we should shorten it to Ginny. And then last night.

Ginny (52:37)

Do you know that is my name. My name is Virginia.

Jake Woodman (52:39)

Yeah, that's so funny. I thought it was Ginny.

Ginny (52:41)

Well, it's Virginia, but I go by Ginny.

Jake Woodman (52:43)

That's hilarious.

Ginny (52:44)

Yeah, because that was my grandma's name. Virginia. Like an old person's name.

Jake Woodman (52:48)

So, yeah, laughing about that last night.

Ginny (52:51)

So there was two Jennies.

Jake Woodman (52:53)

There were two Jennies on this podcast.

Ginny (52:56)

But now, like, I don't hear him at all. So I was like, oh, that's. Something happened. Okay, the chickens are fine. I want to ask one more question before we wrap it up, because I didn't get this out of your book and I didn't find it online. Where did the faith come in? Where? When did the faith come in?

Jake Woodman (53:11)

So that's after my second. So I grew up Lutheran. I think about 40% of Wisconsinites are Lutheran. It's a pretty dominant faith in Wisconsin.

Ginny (53:19)

So it's Lutheran. Beer and cheese.

Jake Woodman (53:21)

Yes, exactly.

Ginny (53:22)

Let's go in Wisconsin.

Jake Woodman (53:24)

And then probably around the time of my parents divorce around nine, I stopped. We just kind of stopped church. And then I get to college and I also enlist in the military at around the same time. 18. And my roommates are very much atheists. Like, how could, you know, a loving God allow all the cliche things that atheists say? I've had all these beliefs, I've had all the thoughts, I've held all the arguments and tried to essentially prove that I was right and then come back from my first deployment, you know, ever more into it. I was just a despicable atheist because I just wasn't, you know, I had a friend on my deployment who was, you know, he would say, hey, man, that kind of offends me when you use the Lord's name in vain. I was like. And I've since again, in writing my book, gone back and apologized to him like I was a big old prick, dude. I'm sorry. Second deployment. Come back, meet my wife. And shortly after our first date, she says, hey, do you want to go to church with me? I was like, well, church is not my thing, but if we can get breakfast afterwards, I do like breakfast, so we can go get some breakfast afterwards. I will join you. And I went there and it was a non denominational church and good music, and no one pointed their finger at me and shamed me for anything. I felt very loved. And I was like, okay, well, this wasn't so bad. And this is the first time I'd stepped in church in more than 10 years, probably. And then I think we went back a few more times a little. Some months later, we moved to Indianapolis and found a new church there and just kept going. And it was something that was good for me. I was still an atheist many times early on when I stepped into the church, but I was like, I feel better. I can pull something out of this that I can apply to my life. And then started to just slowly undo. Of course, now I think God just softening my heart and showing up in ways that I couldn't deny was God and not coincidence, as I would often have said.

Ginny (55:29)

Wow, Brittany's parents must be really proud of you.

Jake Woodman (55:35)

Yeah, yeah, no, we have a great relationship. They, as you saw her father sitting me down after the wedding shower night and just not too many words even. Just saying that she doesn't know if she even wants to be with you anymore. And I couldn't be like, well, why, why not? Uh, I didn't remember much of the night, but I knew it was. It was not good. Um, so, yeah, no, they. They. They are, yes. Her mom has. Has expressed it to me as, yeah.

Ginny (56:08)

You know, because now you got these four kids and all the chickens and your incredible content that you're making and. And they would have seen that, that change. So. What an. What a thing. There's a lot to learn in the book. It's called Up Lessons of Adversity Hitting Bottom and Choosing a Life that Matters. You can find so much at Jake's website.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (56:23)

Jake.

Ginny (56:24)

And on Instagram. I'll make sure. I'll put the links. And the brand new Jake and Brittany Woodman podcast, which is so cool. I mean, you talk about how this was such a formative part of your life in your change, and now you have your own podcast out there. So I love it. Jake. We always end our show with the same question. What's a favorite memory from your childhood? That was Outside?

Jake Woodman (56:42)

Yeah, I think probably out at my dad's riding four wheeler either up, down across the river, it's called the o'. Plain. And just out there, always fishing, whether it was with a friend, with my dad, with my brothers, with my uncle. I mean, so many memories on this river. Catching a bunch of fish and just being out riding four wheeler and just. Yeah, just living life.

Ginny (57:10)

All that fun that you can have. Don't need alcohol.

Jake Woodman (57:12)

Exactly. No, that's for sure.

Ginny (57:15)

Oh, Jake, this has been such an honor and appreciate you being so honest and bold to share your story. I think that stories like that matter quite a bit and often we don't share them. And you're very vulnerable and open in the book and on this podcast and I think that it will help a lot of people, a lot of kids, as they're listening in. You do not need alcohol to have a fun life. You don't need it at all. It's expensive and it can lead to a lot of negative consequences that you don't want to have. And you can have a wonderful life being outside and fishing and cooking good meals and being with people and doing all of those things and having faith. So, Jake, thank you so much for your time and thank you for all you're doing to help people to make better food for their families.

Jake Woodman (57:59)

Awesome. Thank you so much, Ginny. And just if anyone, the book, podcast, none of that stuff aligns with you, but my story does feel free to just reach out via dm. I am happy to, whether it just be a virtual shoulder to lean on or. Or just offer up any sort of advice, life experience that I can to help out in any way that might provide some help.

Ginny (58:21)

Awesome.