108 - David Bowie - Hunky Dory - Seth Green

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers

Episode 108: David Bowie - Hunky Dory

Guest: Seth Green

Release Date: May 13, 2026

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Episode Overview

Josh Adam Meyers welcomes actor, writer, and producer Seth Green to break down David Bowie's landmark 1971 album "Hunky Dory," #108 on Rolling Stone’s 500 Greatest Albums list. In a lively, conversational, and often hilarious episode, they discuss the record’s significance both to Bowie’s career and to Seth’s own creative journey. The pair riff on the themes of artistic transformation, how music impacts listeners at different stages of life, and the parallels between Bowie’s shapeshifting persona and Seth’s uniquely varied trajectory through Hollywood.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. First Impressions & Significance of Hunky Dory

• Josh introduces "Hunky Dory" as the record where Bowie becomes Bowie—stepping from "promising" to fully realizing his power to do whatever he wants musically and thematically (07:00–09:00).
  • "This is the sound of a future legend realizing that he can do whatever the fuck he wants. That’s badass, man." — Josh (07:14)
• Seth admits it’s an album he spent significant time with as a teen and still finds meaningful (09:20–10:00).

2. The Personal Impact of Music & Artists

• Seth describes the transformative experience of seeing artists like Axl Rose and Prince as a young redheaded kid:
  • "He was so charismatic… Those songs really spoke to me. And then seeing this guy, I was like, maybe I could swag like that. Look how much swag this skinny redheaded guy has." (11:16)
  • On Prince: "Any way you cut it, this fucker is weird, but he’s so talented… exploding with music." (11:47)

3. Bowie’s Britishness and Social Context

• Discusses how Bowie's upbringing in post-war London shaped his sophisticated, unrestrained creativity (12:35–13:50).
  • "Growing up British, they’re experiencing a very different kind of real-time history… more like the US post-9/11." — Seth (12:35)
• Important: "Life on Mars" as commentary on media and violence, reflecting 1984-like societal numbness (13:50–15:00).

4. Interpretation of “Life On Mars”

• Seth gives a deep analysis:
  • "It’s about the sensationalism of our species and how we’re sort of determined to be an audience rather than a participant." (14:22)
  • He links its message to how humans never fully transcend tribal behavior.

Notable Quote:

"The idea that we’re never so far from that tribal, chest-beating paranoia… instead of in your common enemy." — Seth (15:15)

5. Seth’s Early Life & Philosophies

• Move from Philly/New York to L.A., growing up in diverse environments and absorbing lessons about difference and acceptance (16:20–17:50).
• Seth credits his drive and focus as reasons he avoided the ‘child star’ pitfalls, citing a desire to really thrive in his chosen career (25:20).

6. Discovering Bowie & “Hunky Dory”

• Early exposure via his mom and film connections, but it wasn’t until moving to LA at 16 and meeting a music/arts-savvy roommate that "Hunky Dory" became pivotal (24:13–25:14).
  • "I didn’t get into Hunky Dory until I was 16. My roommate was a hipster before the word… he encouraged me to learn stuff… that sent me to Hunky Dory." (24:13)
• “Changes” resonated especially after seeing its quote in The Breakfast Club (27:00).

7. Hunky Dory’s Place in Bowie’s Evolution

• The transition from heavy rock on "The Man Who Sold The World" to the stripped-down, playful, piano-centric sound of Hunky Dory is discussed (29:54–30:28).
  • "This is basically the sound of the future legend realizing he can be anything…" — Josh (29:54)
• The record’s initial critical success but commercial failure, only later being recognized as pivotal, is likened to “Paul’s Boutique” for Beastie Boys (29:23).

8. Track-by-Track Reflections

"Changes"

• Seen as Bowie's mission statement of transformation—intentionally opening the album with a declaration of flux (48:11–49:03).
  • "To open with Changes… the thesis for what Bowie’s whole career is going to be." — Josh (48:11)
• Seth matches this to his own career’s inflection point during adolescence (49:35–51:00).

"Oh! You Pretty Things"

• Praised as an underappreciated “access point” with philosophical lyrics about generational change and evolution (32:30–35:08).
  • "It’s got so much silliness for something potentially so serious." — Seth (34:27)
• Seth riffs on the song’s sci-fi and domestic anxieties, tying it to parenthood, "making way for the homo superior" (56:24–56:58).

"Life On Mars"

• Both Josh and Seth agree this is the masterpiece on the album (70:56–73:44).
  • Seth: "There’s always something new left for you to discover, even if it wasn’t something he consciously embedded." (71:53)
• They note how the song’s intricate composition and emotionally charged lyrics keep yielding new meaning.

"Kooks"

• Noted as one of Bowie’s warmest, least guarded songs—written for his newborn son—a "you’ll fit right in with this weird family" statement (78:57–79:39).

"Queen Bitch"

• Josh describes it as Bowie’s “Velvet Underground homework,” full of swagger and queer-coded language (87:28–88:13).
  • Seth: "It’s intellectual and unapologetic. That’s pretty consistent with Bowie." (88:13)
• Discussion about why "oddballs win": commitment, tenacity, and authenticity (88:45–89:02).

"The Bewlay Brothers"

• Considered enigmatic, with Bowie himself revisiting and reinterpreting it throughout his life. Seth compares it to “Fight Club” — about the duality of self and confiding in “the other within” (22:21–23:30).

9. Artistic Parallels: Bowie & Seth Green

• Josh draws direct lines between Bowie's shapeshifting and Seth’s ability to reinvent and shift lanes in Hollywood — from child actor, to supporting weirdo, to voice actor, to Emmy-winning creator.
  • "The chameleonism of Bowie is very similar to you… Both careers get stronger once they stop apologizing for their range.” (98:24–109:00)
• Seth describes the importance of embracing difference and following creative instincts, even when it goes against conventional industry advice (51:03–54:09).

10. Humor, Pop Culture, and Industry Insights

• Both riff on the absurdities of showbiz, the evolution of TV taboos (“what was ‘risqué’ in 1989 is so tame now”), and generational shifts in audience sophistication, media exposure, and the effect of rapid cuts/intense reference culture (64:06–60:48).
  • "I take no responsibility for the dumbing down of the culture… If anything, I think I’m paying forward the lessons from the things that influenced me." — Seth (60:34)
• Funny anecdotes about Married With Children, Rocky Horror, Star Wars, and Seth’s take on oddball outsider roles.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 07:14 — Josh on "future legend realizing he can do whatever he wants"
• 14:22 — Seth summaries “Life on Mars”
• 24:13 — Seth discusses discovering Hunky Dory at 16 in LA
• 29:54 — Album’s transitional importance
• 48:11 — “Changes” as Bowie’s thesis; Seth relates to personal change
• 56:24 — "Oh! You Pretty Things": Lyrics, evolution, parenthood
• 70:56 — “Life on Mars” musical architecture and lyrical impact
• 79:29 — "Kooks": Warmth and family
• 88:45 — Why the oddballs win
• 98:24 — Josh compares Bowie’s chameleonism to Seth Green’s career
• 120:46 — Seth names “Life on Mars” as his favorite track; “no skip” record discussion
• 124:14 — Josh’s summary: Why "Hunky Dory" matters for the restless and the weird

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "He could be an alien, a poet, a prophet, a dad, an oracle… a guy at a piano quietly trying to outwrite the entire '70s before lunch."
  — Josh (07:14)
• "Bowie really felt so unrestrained in his creativity at a young age… crazy sophisticated. And it's probably a product of growing up British."
  — Seth (12:35)
• "You basically summed up that song so perfectly… it's about fighting and it's like — look at those cavemen go…"
  — Josh, on “Life on Mars” (14:32)
• "I love Life on Mars because of fucking Watchmen. When Trent Reznor and Atticus covered it in that last scene, it was just enough for me to be like, oh my God, that is Life on Mars."
  — Josh (33:43)
• "I think I just aimed for [the character actors]. That got me the most excited. So I started feeling more comfortable not trying to be exactly like everybody else."
  — Seth on his own “Changes” moment (52:11)
• "The chameleonism of Bowie is very similar to you… Neither career is built on one fixed lane, but careers get stronger once they stop apologizing for their range."
  — Josh (98:24)
• "This is someone inventing himself in real time."
  — Josh, on Hunky Dory’s impact (124:14)

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Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• Hunky Dory is framed as a critical inflection point in David Bowie’s career — the moment where he discovered and asserted his creative freedom.
• The conversation is as much about personal evolution and fearlessly embracing weirdness as it is about music.
• Seth Green, whose own career is marked by successful reinventions and “supporting oddballs,” draws inspiration and parallels from Bowie’s journey.
• They both cherish "Life on Mars" for its emotional depth and musical subtlety, underlining its status as the record's spiritual centerpiece.
• The episode offers context, insight, and encouragement to creatives of all stripes to take risks, be yourself, and never stop evolving.

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For Listeners

Who should listen to "Hunky Dory"?
Anyone who’s felt too weird for the room, too restless to remain static, or too ambitious to stay in a single lane.

If you love Bowie, or are curious where to start, this conversation will make you want to put the album on again with fresh ears.

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Further Connections

• Seth’s new film “The Highest Stakes” (Paramount) releases April 14.
• Keep up with Seth at sethgreen.com and on socials @SethGreen.
• For future episodes and guest announcements, follow The 500 Podcast on all platforms.

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[Summary by The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers podcast summarizer, episode 108]

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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The 500 the 500. JM been walking us down through that 2012 edition, so it ain't nothing to you. Hundreds more to go and in need of a friend the king of peaceful Michelangelo Talkin the 500 until the end Talking the 500 until the end with my man JL on the 500 Talking the 500 until the end Fighting in the dance hall oh man look at those cavemen go it's the creepiest shape now the song is Life on Mars, arguably one of the greatest songs ever written by one of the greatest artists that might have walked this earth, David Bowie. It's from his 71 album, Hunky Dory. It's number 108 out of 500 on the 500 with me, Josh Adam Myers. I was Going to make a joke and call myself Dane Cook, but nah. Love you, Danny. Thank you for joining us on the only podcast where comedians going through Rolling Stone magazine's list of the 500 Greatest Albums. Man, I am really having fun making this. Alex. Alex, producer, he's on punishment because he could fuck the sound up, but he's recording this. We're trying to do the intros with video now. And I was looking forward to this episode. Man, I love David Bowie so much, the older I've gotten. I talk all about it with our guest. It's a dream, man, making this podcast for you guys. And like I said before, man, we're down to the final 100 in about nine, eight weeks. So tell everybody, because I know 500 was scary, but 100 you can do. It's only two years, you know. I know it's been a weird show, man. It started one way and then Spotify came in and kind of fucking changed it and ruined it a little bit. Paid me a shitload of money. But they really changed the momentum of the show. I was out of it, where I didn't give a shit for a while. Thank God for Morty and thank God for jt. Jt, man, I love you, buddy. I love you to death. I really do. Emily, I fucking love you too, man. You have been the heartbeat of this show to find us the guests like the one we have today and continue. I know I'm a pain in the ass to work with, but, dude, you just nail it every time. Alex. I'm so happy to have Alex. Adam, we used to argue all the time, but, man, I fucking love you, buddy. He is a tough cookie, dude. Peter, Alex's brother, the original, you know, play this Peter, I'm really proud of this is what I'm trying to say. Especially the last, like, fucking 20 episodes, man. We've really been knocking out of the park. I'm doing the research again. I'm spending the time, and I hope that shows. So tell everybody about the final 100. Make it a thing. We're going to do most of them live. I'm going to spend the money, fly all over the fucking world to get some of these guests. And we are aiming up to be really big. My goal, man, for fucking Sergeant Pepper, is to have an actual living Beetle. And the way my career is going right now, it's probably going to happen. Patreon, all that shit. You know about it, guys. Subscribe to Patreon, YouTube, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All right, you guys want to talk about Hunky Dory. You want to talk about it? How do you sum this record up? This. I said it. I'm going to say it on the podcast earlier or later in the episode. Maybe earlier in the episode. But this is. This is another one of those big records because we're kind of in that moment where a lot of these artists now are making the transitional periods where they go from what was before to what is after. And I think this is it. This is. This is Bowie. And this is the sound of a future legend realizing that he can do whatever the fuck he wants. That's badass, man. He could be an alien, he could be a poet, he could be a prophet, he could be a dad, he could be an oracle. He could be a guy at a piano quietly trying to outright the entire seventies before lunch. Morty, D.J. morty Coyle, my. My. One of my best friends and writer on the show, who. I love you to death, buddy, and thank you for all the help. I remember I said it. It was like, was every. Was everybody big? He goes, every Bowie album was a landmark. Like, fuck. Like, it was like Independence day in like 95 when that came out. And the movie theater, the uptown in D.C. just ran the movie for 24 hours because everybody wanted to see it. This is. This is how it starts. From my understanding. This is how it starts. Bowie becoming Bowie a couple weeks ago is the Stones becoming the Stones. You know what was after that? Loaded. It's not the same, but I'll tell you this, this one's important. This is a fucking important one. Released December 1971. This is. This is a biggie. And I can still thank fucking. Oh my God. My buddy from the unknown theater, watching him sing. Oh, you pretty things. It was the coolest shit ever. Yeah, dude. And our guest today. Come on. The one and only Seth Green. Come on. You are sitting down with a guy very much like Bowie. Very changing, constantly, wildly talented, whose career has run from Buffy the Vampire Slayer to stealing the show in the Austin Powers movies, to Family Guy to the Emmy winning Robot Chicken. He is for decades, he's one of the child actors that's not only survived but flourished. One of the sharpest comedic voices moving easily between acting, writing, directing and producing. He's. He is the David Bowie of fucking television and movies radio days. Oh, we get to talk about it. I'm so excited. I'm so excited for you guys to listen to this. And because of him, hopefully we're going to get some other guests that we might mention that Emily is Trying for. But to check out all of Seth's current projects, check out his official website, seth green.com and go to all his social channels at Seth Green. And with that being said, run the spiel rate, review, and most importantly, subscribe to the 500 listen free on all platforms. Leave us a five star review if you're listening to the show now. I used to get shit on. Hopefully I'm not anymore. Follow me at Josh Adam Myers and also the podcast at the 500 podcast. Email the [e-mail]. Follow the Facebook group run by Crazy Evan. For all things 500, go to the website 500podcast.com. All right, nothing left to say, but here we go with number 108. Is that Bowie? It is me, David Bowie with Hunky Dory.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, you Seth Green, who says, don't you know you're fucking Seth and you're Seth and you're green. Gotta make it green.

[A]

Just about time to pick up the green follow.

[B]

I planned that. There.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

You told him what? I said I wanted the green phone there and you put it there. Thank God.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

God damn, dude, this is so funny.

[A]

Like, I was really excited to get this record. I saw a different list of potential records and I was like, I don't

[B]

know, what else would you have chosen?

[A]

It's hard. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure there's, there's, there's just a handful of albums that I spent a ton of time with that were really significant to me at the time that I experienced them, and this was one of them.

[B]

What are the, what are like the, if you had like a, like a 5 fiver that you're like, all right, these are. Because mine are like, I say it all the time. Guns N Roses, Stone Temple Pilots, Radiohead. Okay, Computer.

[A]

What was your favorite bands, you mean? Or just like, the thing is, I don't know if it's Guns and Roses, is it Appetite or Use your illusion?

[B]

No, it's Chinese Democracy, dude. I'm, I'm the one guy that likes Chinese Democrats.

[A]

Well, I mean, like, I, I. There's a lot of tracks on Use your Illusion that are undeniable. There's a lot of great stuff that they like. Songs on l will never be written like that again. So I love Appetite, of course, but I love Guns and Roses as a band. Like, what they accomplished as a band, it's, it's amazing. Yeah, it's undeniable.

[B]

So I look at records as like my life was one Way I heard that record, my life was different. So like, okay, Computer. I was, you know, 18 years old, it was in college and I was like, I don't know what I'm doing with my life.

[A]

Did you already like Radiohead?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, but I love the Bends. But then my buddy was like, dude, you should check out ok, Computer. And then I heard that and it was like, it was like that moment. If you ever seen Imagine the documentary by John Lennon where the guy, the guy. Really?

[A]

Yeah. Oh, dude, it's. It's amazing.

[B]

But there's this like hippie dude that's living in like the shire of John Lennon's like estate. And he's like, you get. They go to like meet the guy and they're like, hey, so what are you doing here? He goes, well, you wrote all the songs about me. And he goes, no, he's like, I wrote about Yoko. It's about me. Or. But, you know, my heroin, whatever I was doing. And he's like, oh, well, it felt like, you know, boy, you got to carry that weight. He's like, look at him. I got this huge bag. And he's like, no, dude, it's so that's what I'm saying is like, there's like. I'm not saying Guns N Roses Appetite spoke to me. Yeah. As a seven year old kid to be like.

[A]

To me, I was 13 or 14 when that record hit and just having like a red headed lead singer, I mean, Dave Mustaine, it's a different situation. But like Axl Rose was so charismatic, explosive. Those songs really spoke to me. The music spoke to me. And then seeing this guy, I was like, I think I could maybe I could swag like that. Like, look how much swag this skinny redheaded guy has.

[B]

That must feel so good to see Ginger just be like, oh my God, just killing it.

[A]

Well, this is gonna sound really silly, but I felt the same way. I was 8 years old when I saw Purple Rain in the theaters. Oh, wow. And I felt that way about Prince. Like when I saw Prince, who was not a tall guy, he was like a skinny, weird dude. Like, any way you cut it, this fucker is weird, but he's so talented.

[B]

Oh God, yeah.

[A]

So undeniably like exploding with music. Yeah. That everybody's like, he's sexy. I was like, can I use that can? Because I felt, I felt when I was very young, I felt like I felt all of my organic qualities, obstacles, because I thought I was aiming for something else. And then as soon as I realized what I was Actually aiming for. I tried to use all of my God given to my advantage.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And guys like Prince, guys like Axl Rose, like, they spoke to me in that way. Bowie really felt so unrestrained in his creativity at a young age. At a very young age. So you and was so like crazy sophisticated like he was so. And it's probably a product of growing up British, right, Because they're. They're experiencing a very different kind of real, real time history continuing to unfold itself. And a lot of the guys like that record 72, so they're coming out of like post war London just felt different than the US did. It felt more like the US post 9 11.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I'm saying? So, like growing up in that way as there's a. Same way that the US had a push at the end of the Second World War to like stabilize the. The society. They were like, hey, look guys, just aim for a house and a job and a fence and your kids and a pet and you'll be fine. Guys, I know you just witnessed the most crazy, destructive horror capabilities of human beings.

[B]

We all love ptsd. All right, Just everybody know that we're

[A]

not going to unpack any of that. We're not going to worry about that. We got the bomb. Rest assured, everybody go back to work.

[B]

But here, go see the Day the Earth Stood still. That's in the movie theaters right now.

[A]

Because Aliens, we're gonna. We're just gonna soft pedal the alien thing until we feel like you' comfortable with that idea. 2028 will probably tell you that it's all real, but for now, so. And that's it. You see Bowie like growing up against those kinds of structures. And it's not, it's only like 20, 30 years after a book like 1984 is written. So you. You see in songs like Life on Mars, right, The. The very concept of a society desensitized to violence and mistreatment against one another. Like that whole thing. Thing is about the sensationalism of our species and how we're sort of determined to be an audience rather than a participant.

[B]

I loved that you just said that. And you, you basically like summed up that song so perfectly because four years so off camera, this is what always happens every time we start talking and was like, what happened? Let's wait, let's wait, let's wait. And it's. I recently learned because I've got a piano. I'm building the studio in my. In my living room in New York. And so I wanted Songs I love is Life on Mars. And I'm like, I want to learn how to play that. And by learning how to play it, you finally have to like, listen to the lyrics and like read the lyrics. And I just always was like, ah, you know, you know, okay, that's. I know what he's saying, but I don't know what he's saying. And, and you couldn't have sum that up perfectly because it's so odd. It's like when you realize it's about fighting and it's like, well, but, but

[A]

also the, the way it's summarized, he's like, you know, the guys fighting in the dance hall, look at those cavemen go, right. So one of the things that that intell get down to is what's the difference between us and apes? Right. If we're descendant from apes scientifically, what is the difference? We've, we're ambulatory in a different way. We've learned how to speak and use tools and things like that. The communication is really the biggest thing. The way that we think, the, the way that we're able to express ourselves and communicate with one another, that's our largest superpower. But the idea that we're never so far from that, like tribal chest beating paranoia, lashing out at one another, Lashing out at your, your neighbors. Yeah. Instead of in your common enemy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, that's the ultimate conditioning. Right? Yeah. So I love the boat. I've always been attracted to those kinds of stories, whether it's like 1984, sirens, a titan, you know, any of these kind of. That's why Rage against the Machine hit me so good. Because they were just talking about it.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Just talking about it like out. I, I grew up in LA in the, in. I came here in 1991 and so I was a teenager for like Rodney King and the O.J.

[B]

trial.

[A]

Just like a, not a race war, but like a real reckoning in Los Angeles of everyone's unconscious bias.

[B]

Sure. Right.

[A]

And there was a lot of like learning and healing that everybody needed to do. I grew up in Philadelphia and New York and so I just. There's no space for that. I was surrounded by black kids. Like, there was no space to be like, I hate black people. There was just, you literally, this is your culture.

[B]

You already had a lot of going on when you moved out here. So is it like, was it like your family that was like, all right, it's time to make the big move. I mean, you've already done like radio days and which by the Way is like, one of my favorite movies.

[A]

Oh, really, dude?

[B]

I mean, it's Get Regular with Relax. Right, Right.

[A]

I mean, honey, honey, one more time. One more time. You just need a little hit regular. A little bit sharper, please.

[B]

Well, it's just. I think it's the same where it's like. Like, my dad schooled me on all the Woody Allen movies and Mel Brooks movies, and so radio days was like, when he. When he went back to do his childhood type, it was always like, oh, I can connect with that on a.

[A]

Some.

[B]

Some kind of a level. So, like, I just, you know, dude, I stole from my fucking synagogue just like you did.

[A]

And they.

[B]

No way. I mean, you're not.

[A]

Did you get beat by your rabbi in the same way?

[B]

My parents probably.

[A]

Ken Morris kicked the. Out of me.

[B]

Do they really?

[A]

No, not really. Well, a little bit. I definitely got, like, physically abused on that movie. Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Not like.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Because everyone was reacting. Yeah.

[B]

I was like, oh, is this another Corey Haim, Corey Feldman thing?

[A]

No, dude, we have very different stories.

[B]

I can. Please.

[A]

Yeah, we've.

[B]

We've all been touched by Charlie Sheen, though. I have.

[A]

All of my experiences with Charlie are so completely different than that. That's. I've never had it, you know, but I can't. Look, the. The biggest thing that I had to accept with things like even. Even Danny Masterson, who was a very close friend of mine and who. Someone who I spent a tremendous amount of time with and never witnessed anything like what he was ultimately convicted of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I had to accept the idea that people that we know as good guys are capable of doing bad things. Things. And it. It's nothing that I would have ever seen. So it wasn't like I was in a position to do anything about it. But at some point, you have to accept that. That duality exists, even in people that you feel. You know very well.

[B]

Oh, my God. Yeah. But you've also, like, navigated, like, you've really, like, come out of this whole, like, career. Like, I mean, it's just the. That you've done, like, as I was going through all the research. It's just you've. You've really, like. Especially now, like, this third act is even. Is even the best part of it. It feels like.

[A]

Well, I try, like. Right. The best. The being as old as I am. And I also, like, never got caught up in drugs or spending my money. Is that, like, we're fine. Everything's. Everything's cool. And so I can focus on the things that I really want to do. I can work with the people that I'm really excited to work with. I can make the kind of stuff that I most feel needs to be made or that I'm. I'm responsible for making. You know, it takes forever. It's not easy. It's not easy. No.

[B]

But honestly, like, you've had such, like I said, an incredible career, so take me to you getting in with Bowie. Yes. So, like, take me. Like, how did that start? Like, where does that come from?

[A]

That start.

[B]

How old are you? Because that's, like, I got into it so much later. I mean, I knew, like, Space Oddity and. And, you know, Ziggy Stardust and shit like that, but it wasn't like, really until later in life that I really. Well, I mean, Labyrinth. Labyrinth is obviously, like, the first introduction with Bowie. Yeah, but you're. But you. And this is the thing, too, is like, you. Here's what some would call Bowielicious. I'm going through Fergalicious. It can't just be Fergie. It can be Bowie, too. Right, Right. Because you played. Yeah.

[A]

You've got a date on everything. Oh, dude, isn't that funny? I did. I got to play on. Because Jeff Ross is a really good friend of mine, and he did the historic roasts, and they were going to roast Freddie Mercury. Yeah. And he had read somewhere a quote that I talked about Bowie, and he was like, would you play Bowie? And I was like, like, yes. And the. The up thing that I'm. I'm sad about, but nobody seemed to notice is I had just had, like, a laser surgery on my.

[B]

Because I had, like. On your throat?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. On my vocal folds. Me too.

[B]

Vocal cord surgery twice, dude. I just had a nasal procedure done.

[A]

I've had, like, two different sinus things, and it's still. Still.

[B]

Have you tried Viver. This new thing?

[A]

No, but we'll talk off.

[B]

We'll talk about it.

[A]

Unless they're responsible.

[B]

Proud sponsor Vivair. They're sponsoring the podcast.

[A]

Are they really?

[B]

No, not at all.

[A]

Well, then you shouldn't shout them out. Like, we can talk offline time. Take it back.

[B]

Dr. Kaplan, though new York City.

[A]

Reach out to me. The bear, dude.

[B]

It rules, dude. And once it heals, it's gonna rule.

[A]

Yeah. The healing. It's always a. It's a nightmare.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I've had the two. Two different sinus surgeries, and then I've had, like, three different vocal fold. It's insane. How do we get started on that? There was A point. Oh. So when I got to do that, the historic roast and play Bowie, my voice wasn't what I wanted it to be.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Because I've always felt like I could do some version of him that's almost convincing. Yeah. And I just wasn't there.

[B]

You were like, hey, I'm David.

[A]

I was like, somewhere in here trying to manifest, like, get a sound out, but.

[B]

Sure. But that. But if he. Obviously, if he asks you to do it, you're a huge fan. You've talked about it. He knows it. So.

[A]

I love. I do. I. Yeah. I don't want to, like, paint myself as a super fan because I'm. There's so many blind spots even in this record. Like, I didn't spend a lot of time with Quicksand, and I. I had to, like, study up on things. Like, is it Brulee Brothers or the Beaulie Brothers? It's the last track.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Let me pull it up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The. The Brothers.

[A]

So this. This track, like, it is. I don't know, man. If you really spend any time with this track, it feels like Fight Club. Right. Because he's talking about all of these madcap adventures. He's talking about being drawn into the darkness and the madness by this guy who. His brother, a twin. Someone he, like, recognizes and feels comfortable with. And the fun thing about it, when I first heard it, I thought it, like, it was before Fight Club even existed. And so the idea of having a mate, like the one who you can really confide in and confess all your deepest to, and they. They say, I feel the same way. And, you know, encouraging each other to either act on it or not act on it. Like, what a. What a fucking fascinating idea. And so it's even cooler, like, when people talk to him over the years about this particular track, you know, 10 years away from it, he was like, I don't know. I think maybe it was a little bit about my brother. And then, like, 20 years away, he was like, I really feel like this was sort of about chasing a ghost of a. Of a friend I once had that felt like a brother. And then even later, he was like, I can't even relate to the artist that wrote these words. You know what I mean?

[B]

I mean, he's been through so many different variations.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's written so much music that at a certain point, it's like, you know, whether he's sober, on drugs, whether it's the Berlin stuff or this, it's like, I mean, he's just chucking out music and going into these characters. But this is, like, an interesting one because this is, like, before we get into the track, because that's. I love that you brought up that song because I wrote, like, a whole thing about it.

[A]

You did, too.

[B]

Oh, dude, I've got, got. I've got. Dude, I've got, like, all this, like, I'm. I'm gonna compare your career to his career. Oh, I'm gonna, like. We're gonna go through what's important about the record.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

We're gonna go through all the facts. You already kind of nailed what was going on in the world.

[A]

I can give you a couple of really deep things. So I got to make a movie when I was 8 years old with Nastasia Kinski, who was in a movie the year before called Cat People with David Bowie. So I was very aware of. Of this guy both as an actor, as an artist. My mom was like, I'll show you David Bowie, like, played records of his. But I didn't get into hunky dory until I was, like, 16 years old. I moved out to LA by myself, and I had a roommate who was just like, if it was today, you'd call him a hipster. But at the time, he was a student of all of these things. Like, he knew literature, he knew music, and he encouraged me to, like, like, learn stuff. So I wound up reading everything from Dickens to Bukowski. Like, I was just. I didn't get into college, you know what I mean? I had a lot of time on my hands because I was just auditioning or working when I was lucky, and I didn't want to get caught up in drugs or alcohol. Like, I come from a sober parent, and I grew up in la, so I saw everybody blow it.

[B]

Was it. Was it because of your parents? Because my parents were straight, too. But that's why I partied, because I was like, you guys are boring.

[A]

The reason I didn't party is because I really wanted this job. I knew from a very young age that I wanted to do this as a career. And I know that's kind of insane to say, but I can't convince you, except to say that that was something I knew very young.

[B]

Was there a gig that that kind of, like, showed it where it was like, oh, I can imagine working with someone like Woody. It's like, oh, this is a professional.

[A]

By the time I was 12 and got to make that movie, I had already made six features. And I was so determined to do this. Like, I wanted to be. I got to. When I was Very, very young. I got to work with people like Dick Cabot. Like. Yeah. And I knew. I knew that it was a big deal. So I didn't come in there like, I'm gonna show off with Dick Cabin. I'm like, what can you tell me? Show me how this works.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm so hungry. Give this to me. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But so the. Anyway, so at 16, I had moved out. I'm dancing. Your question what motivated that? I'd been out to LA three summers in a row for pilot season, and it was just becoming apparent that for me to really audition to. For me to have access, I had to be in town. They were less likely to fly me out for things than they were to cast me if I just showed up there. So I had a roommate, one of the kids that worked on it. We had all just made the Stephen King miniseries.

[B]

Oh, yeah, dude, I bought that on itunes.

[A]

Oh, you did?

[B]

Come on, dude.

[A]

That's so fun.

[B]

So that's one.

[A]

So the year I turned 15, and the casting agent, Victoria Burrows, who also cast, like, the Hobbit, she's incredible. She said to me, like, this is it, dude. You gotta move to la. Like, I would put you in these kinds of things, but they won't. You gotta be a local hire. And so I did, and I wound up moving out with a couple of those kids. And this was one of those records that my roommate Jared was like, this is the real record. I don't know. One of our friends had a guitar, and they were playing, like, Ground Control to Major Tom. And he was like, like, have you listened to Hunky Dory? And I was like, oh, yeah. With Changes, he's like, we should listen to that record. So we just spent a bunch of time on it. The first time that I. I really got into Changes was after I saw the Breakfast Club, because he puts that quote right at the front of it. These children that you spit on as they go about their. Their day, they're immune to your consultation. Or is it confrontation because they're quite aware of what they're going through. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I feel.

[A]

I always felt like I didn't fit in. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

But I didn't feel like I fit in at all. My school, Philadelphia, I mean.

[B]

Well, that must have been odd also, being like, when you're working and then. Because you're doing and then still living in Philly at a certain point. Yeah. And you're coming back and everybody's like, well, the. This Daniel Day Lewis over here, even though he has not really done anything.

[A]

The Michael Jackson bad video.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, dude.

[A]

That's what it felt like every time I came home with like some new piece of clothing and I felt really cool. Yeah. I bought this new members Only jacket in Montreal and they were like, you, Jackie. I pissed on your shit. Don't listen to your weird nephew grow. Yeah, it's like brutal.

[B]

I remember there was a guy that I. That I was at a bar mitzvah and he was. He played Jeremy in the Jeremy Pearl Jam video.

[A]

Incredible.

[B]

And I've never been more jealous of somebody in my life. I was like, I'm the. I'm the talented person in this bar mitzvah.

[A]

Don't you remember that, though? Like, how unimaginable an idea it was that a boy would come into school and kill himself in front of everybody. Which is the. The plot of the Jeremy video. And. And theoretically the message of the song is don't kill yourself.

[B]

It's true. Great song, though.

[A]

It was. Yeah. That whole moment was so great. It just like pre exist predated Columbine. And so.

[B]

I know. I didn't even think about that. They were so ahead of their time.

[A]

It's like. Well, it's just you. When you. Like whenever we cross these thresholds culturally that just those ideas are out there, which. To bring it back, is why a record like this is so important. Yeah. Because so many of the songs were putting a mirror up to a culture, a society, like a human being that was not noticing itself. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

This is. This is. This is the. What's. I think it's his third record. Let me just double check that math.

[A]

This is what I remember reading because I. Again, I did a little bit of research and they said they put they changes out as a single and it tanked. It like tanked. And so this record, it was mildly critically lauded, but it didn't travel and it didn't. The single didn't blow up. So it wasn't until later releases that people discovered this record. It's almost like Paul's Boutique of Bowie's career.

[B]

That's a good one. This is. This is. This is Gazigy comes out after this. So this is like the transitional period of him. This is basically the sound of the future legend realizing he can be anything. He can be a cabaret alien, an art school poet, paranoid prophet, doting dad, bisexual glam oracle, or a guy at a piano quietly trying to outright the entire 1970s. Before lunch.

[A]

And I think there's something really fun because it's just stripped down music. It's a lot of piano, it's a lot of acoustic guitar. It's a lot of just raw vocals.

[B]

And the other record before that, if you listen to the record before this, the man that Sold the World.

[A]

Yeah, it's got a lot of music.

[B]

Yeah. It's a little bit heavier. So this is kind of like where I think Bowie is. Is stop merely being promising and becoming Bowie.

[A]

It's funny because I didn't. And it's arrogant to have said. I just didn't even realize this. AI hadn't looked through the entire list to see what was the agreed upon most important records.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was excited. I was like, oh, this is on that list.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I. I don't know. I think it's. I think it's really meaningful.

[B]

But this record.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, on the 500 Greatest Albums list.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, this is actually. We're doing the 2012 list, so this is actually. It actually drops down into the 80s, so the new one, it's ranked a little bit lower. I talked to my buddy Morty, who's. Who helps me write the show.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Rick's nephew. Yeah. What it is?

[B]

Rick's nephew.

[A]

Yeah. Grandson.

[B]

I do.

[A]

It's all.

[B]

It's. It's. It's him. Moses Lack helps the. Morty would always say that when Bowie would put out a record, it was an event. And this is where it's starting to become that, I think, because Ziggy is obviously where it becomes. This becomes like.

[A]

This is Igor.

[B]

Yes, yes. So we already talked about what's going on in the world with Bowie. Let's get him here. So he breaks through first. So he spent the 60s moving through mod pop theatrical novelty phases, learning the hard way that talent and immediate stardom are not the same thing. He breaks through a space oddity in 69. Makes invisible. But not yet stable as an artist. Followed up by the record before this Demanded sold the world in 70. Heavier, darker, hard rocking record stylistic turn. But around this period, he was still hustling for the right presentation band chemistry. Label support finds RCA to give him the bigger platform. There's a six song demo that helped secure rca showing he had moved towards stronger songwriting and more distinctive V. He marries Angela and the birth of their first son in 71. Which is directly.

[A]

That's where Kooks comes from.

[B]

And oh, you Pretty Things, which by the way, is one of his most underrated songs.

[A]

Is it? I mean, for me. So you don't think enough people talk about it.

[B]

The reason it sticks out to me is like, it's the same reason when I. I didn't get to explain why I love life on Mars. I love life on Mars because of fucking Watchmen. When they did the HBO thing and Trent Reznor and Atticus cover it at that last scene. And it was just enough for me to be like, oh my God, that is life on Mars. And then just me like, oh my God, I love this song. And then getting the piano and learning how to play it. Oh, you pretty things. 08 There was a show on Santa Monica and Seward, which is a huge place in my. It's called the Unknown Theater. It was like my whole career basically started and there was guys that ran the theater. They partied a little bit and they

[A]

ate a lot of sugar cereal.

[B]

They just ate a lot of cereal.

[A]

They're all hopped up on tricks, man.

[B]

Why do you think we got the boxes up there, dude?

[A]

We're trying to get those rabbits locked up and they just eating it, bro.

[B]

It was. Well, I know you've probably met these people where it's like, you know the guy that's like, listen, man, I just love people creating and I love stuff, art. And so we do the comedy show and then there'd be like people doing like painting over here.

[A]

And then there's like, everybody's trying to be warh.

[B]

Everybody. Everybody. It's a. Yeah, it's its own little factory. But he had this guy Kyle, who was kind of like helped around the. The theater and he put that song on and he's an actor and a thespian and he did this whole dance. Wasn't even a dance. It was just like this pre planned thing where it was like as he's singing the song and mouthing the lyrics and when it hits with oh, you pretty things, he does this like thing with like, you know, drive a beat cray. And I just. It's always stuck with me, but it made me be like, wait, what is that song? And then I went back and that's when I started really digging into this record. Yeah. Yeah, it's.

[A]

It's definitely that song that's definitely an access point because it is such a like carelessly defiant song. It's like, you can fight. This is happening. Life is changing. The world is changing. We are different. And you deal with it. Like there was. I don't know. I. I love that song. And it's. It's so. It's so it's got so much silliness to it. You know what I mean? For something so potentially serious. But it's.

[B]

But it's such a. It's just such an easy song to like. There's so many. I'm not saying nothing on this record is like a hard listen. This is all very, very easy to digest.

[A]

Do you think it's, like, really easy to miss the depth of it because it's such a pop song?

[B]

I would have never thought it was about him having a kid.

[A]

Sure. That Third Eye.

[B]

I thought it was about a girl.

[A]

There's that Third Eye Blind song that nobody would think is about crystal methanatal sex. But. But there it is.

[B]

How's it going to be?

[A]

No, it's the. Well, yeah. Taylor Swift had a lot to say on that single. Dude. Just misquoting. Anybody.

[B]

Third Eye Blind.

[A]

They're doing great. Are they? I haven't kept up with them in a while.

[B]

I mean, I just.

[A]

The way that. That track got misused in almost every summer movie trailer was so funny to me. Oh, it was as funny as when

[B]

it was the do, do, do part.

[A]

No, it was the do, do, do.

[B]

That. That's what's. That's what.

[A]

Because me and.

[B]

Me and Big J O, we always, like. We have all those songs that were in every trailer in the 90s. It's like, Tim's having a bad day.

[A]

I feel good.

[B]

Look into your life, pretty baby. Is it everything? But. But it's. I went to.

[A]

We did Bummer Shoot.

[B]

And Third Eye Blind was. Was on the bill. And so we were like, let's go check him, dude. The.

[A]

They murdered. Of course murdered. No one said they're a shitty band.

[B]

That's true. And I don't know why I insinuated that.

[A]

It's really just the fact that that song got. And they. They were like, I'm gonna cash these checks. Like, I can't blame them. It was just really funny. It's when things like that get played on culture and it's like nobody. Nobody checked the lyrical content of this song. There was a point where the Golden Globes.

[B]

What?

[A]

Pink had that song. Raise your glass. And the song is all about celebrating your. Her unapologetic freakishness.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She even says, we will never be anything but dirty little freaks. And that was. That's over. Like Tom Hanks.

[B]

All the people at the Golden Globes.

[A]

And I just thought that was so funny.

[B]

Well, everybody's been doing Born in the USA wrong for years. Like, all the Republicans take that and they're like, yeah, this is like pro America.

[A]

You're like, it's actually like a really tragic anti war.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But this is fun. I heard, like, everybody that likes music has already come on this show and talked about it. I like talking about music.

[B]

I'm so happy you're doing this. I'm so happy.

[A]

By the way, have you had Elijah on here? Elijah Wood?

[B]

No, but. But I'm trying to. I'm trying to. I think I'm trying to get him for Radiohead. Isn't he a huge radio? Because the Benz is coming up right after this.

[A]

I bet Radiohead's, like, high on his list. Yeah. He's an audiophile and he just knows so much about so many different.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. So many different bands. You know who else is really in the music is compliment. Do you know Brian Koppelman at all?

[B]

Yes, he did. We. We follow each other because he did Billions.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Also and discovered and. And discovered Tracy Chapman.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. Back when A R was a necessary thing.

[B]

Which was funny because remember we did the Tracy Chapman episode. I was like, yeah, I don't know if I get the record. And then I had the. I don't. All right, don't hate me.

[A]

I don't hate you. I'm just surprised because that record, I. I heard that record. Fuck. It was the year it came out. I had the privilege. I got to go. It was before I did it, but the same year that I turned 14 or 15 and I got to go to the Amnesty International benefit. It was this massive concert that had. I shit you not. Joan Baez, Peter Gabriel, Bruce Springsteen, Sting. It was.

[B]

Was this the one in Wembley?

[A]

No, no, it was in, I don't know, la. Maybe. It could have been in Philadelphia, but Tracy Chapman was on the bill and it was. I mean, it was like, I love music so much. Getting to see a live concert of that caliber, it was like life changing. It made me just chase going to see any band anytime I, like, liked a track on it. I'm like, I'm gonna go see this artist. And in la. That was so possible. Sure.

[B]

Well, it's funny, but the Tracy thing was that I didn't. What's. So. It's really just the way this podcast is, like, sequenced because we're doing that list and I don't skip a week. And so some weeks I'm not in the mood to listen to, like, you know, coffee back room, you know, like slow folk music. And that's kind of like where I think I was going into it, I was like, ah. And then I had the guy that shot her cover and did the music video. Matt Maran, I think his name.

[A]

Oh, sure, he did. Bhaskar.

[B]

Yes. And then having him and my buddy. Oh, fuck. David. He writes for Rolling Stone. He wrote on my TV show.

[A]

It's a G, right? Yeah. David.

[B]

Don't hate me. He's been on the show twice. We'll. We'll look it up later. Look for it. Engineer guy, if you can remember. Big ups to the engineer guy. Dude, you're not. We don't have you looking up right now. Moral of the story.

[A]

Really enjoying this conversation, dude.

[B]

The moral of the story is this, is that when you're. When you're like, when I'm not in the mood for it, and then I have the guest on and then they talk about it because the whole time they're like, wait, what are you talking about? Like, this is X, Y, Z. And then that night I re. Listened to Fast Cars and I'm like, quietly sobbing at the gym. And I think it's the same thing with Life on Mars, where it was like, I didn't. I'd always heard it, but now I know the lyrics and now I'm paying attention to it.

[A]

And I think that sometimes it just hits you, man.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I'm okay with that. That's my favorite thing about music is that it doesn't really need a language. I remember when Gangnam Style came out.

[B]

United the country, dude.

[A]

Well, it was. But it was also. I think it was whatever show Joe McHale was hosting at the time. They posted Sometimes you don't need to understand to understand. And I was like, this is one of the greatest clips I've ever seen, this song. And I just sent it to, like, 25 people. When you. When you feel it, you can. Everybody can feel it.

[B]

It. Oh, yeah.

[A]

You can tell when it's. When it's William Hong or it's Kelly Clarkson. Like, you can tell the difference.

[B]

Yeah, but William Hung put so much into it, dude.

[A]

Of course. Of course. And there is a specific award for. For spirit. Yeah, it's not. It's not often a Grammy.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's not.

[B]

It's a Razzie. What would be. What would be the music Razzies?

[A]

I don't know. I mean, the, you know, the, The. The ticket sales.

[B]

Because I'm selling tickets.

[A]

Those checks still cash, even if it's ironic.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I'll never forget that when everybody bought the DVD of R. Kelly's Trapped in The closet.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

R. Kelly didn't know that it was mostly, like, white hipsters who were like, I can't believe this exists, and we're gonna watch this together for Christmas. R. Kelly was like, I'm supposed to be the mill. Yeah, you know what I mean? The checks, cash. Even if the purchase was ironic.

[B]

Oh, R. Kelly, why'd you have to do all that, dude?

[A]

Dude, why did he have to, like, start a cult and imprison a bunch of underage girls? I have no idea.

[B]

Who knows, Dude?

[A]

I'm glad it was prosecuted.

[B]

Just write music, dude.

[A]

Jesus Christ.

[B]

That's why I love Bowie. You know what? I love Bowie. This is why I love Bowie. It's like, dude, he never got in trouble. He got in trouble, but he never got really in trouble.

[A]

Yeah, but wasn't he busted for, like, bringing weed in the country or something simple like that?

[B]

Yeah, but he's just every. It's just like.

[A]

Never beat his wife in an elevator.

[B]

No, he just was like, you know what I love he even more is, like. It's like the. Before we get into the tracks and stuff, is like the later stage Bowie, when he did that episode. I mean, one for fun. Labyrinth.

[A]

Yeah. Like him to do that when he went on extras too.

[B]

But he's just. Dude, he's all. He's had not only a great music career, but his acting chops. He's, like, doing. Working with Nolan early on with the Prestige and like I said, Labyrinth, which probably his people were like, what are you talking about? And the songs are, you know, magic Dance, go fuck yourself.

[A]

I will. Look, I know this is going to be very controversial because Take Me there. Well, I have a hard swath through nerdcore, and Labyrinth, similar to the Last Unicorn, is. Is revered in a lot of ways. There's a lot of controversial pseudonyms movie, not the least of which is Bowie's tight pants.

[B]

Oh, the Bowie. The Bowie bulge.

[A]

Bowie's tight pants. While handling that baby has always been a little troubling to me. I'm not implying anything. The baby. There's a lot of. There's a lot of problem.

[B]

That's a Jim Henson issue, dude. That's a Frank Oz. Jim Henson. They should. They should.

[A]

We finally got him.

[B]

Didn't. Dude.

[A]

Damn it.

[B]

Oh, if you were alive, Jim Henson, we'd. We'd throw your face in the coals, dude.

[A]

But even, like, I don't know, like, the. The. But you're right, though, because, like, him in scenes with Tim Curry, right? Like, there is no Tim Curry's revered as one of the greatest actors alive and Bowie's toe to toe, you know what I mean? What is that?

[B]

What is that like? You know, Because, I mean, obviously you're so young when you did it and you're working with someone like Tim Curry. Did you have any idea about Rocky, Our Picture show? And, like, know that, like, you were. I forget you're. You were like. Because you're like. You have an old soul. So you probably were already when you were 8.

[A]

I'm, like a kid that really wanted to. To, you know, sing and dance for audiences. And so when I found out, I think I was 13 years old when I. My friend who lived in New Jersey, we found out that at the Cherry Hill Mall, every Saturday they did Rocky Horror. And I didn't know what Rocky Horror was, except that I had, like, heard about it in New York. I knew it was a thing where everybody dressed up. I knew it was a thing where everybody, like, talked to the screen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so the first time I went there with my buddy, I didn't know what we were. Were in for.

[B]

And you're held 13.

[A]

13. And when I saw it, I was like, oh, yeah, this. I found my people. Because this is so weird. It's a movie, but it's also kind of a bad movie. But they also, like, made this movie and pulled it off, which anybody who's attempted to make a movie knows they did. It's in the impossible. You're doing the impossible to make a movie. And also there were, like, teenage girls in their underwear in person. And I was like, this feels like the craziest hack. I'm allowed to eat popcorn while I'm watching this show. This just felt crazy to me.

[B]

They're shouting at the movie, the.

[A]

The screen, and, well, everyone's thing live. And before you know it, you're like, I want to be a part of this. Like, I'll wear the makeup. I'll put the cape on. Like, I'll. I'll come out and say the thing.

[B]

Have you dressed up? Have you dressed up?

[A]

I did. I did a Frankenfurter one time. It was more for Halloween than for, like, an actual performance.

[B]

It's a. It's a dream of mine to be Dr. Frankenberger. Oh, my God.

[A]

I got to do. We did a. We did a. Like a staged reading during COVID of the whole thing and had Tim Curry on it. And it was really, like, one of the cool. I got to play riffraff.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And it was just like, I don't know. One of the coolest things ever.

[B]

So what was that?

[A]

Yeah, so I loved him. I loved him. I was, like, so deep into Tim Curry. I'd already seen him in a bunch of Clue. Yeah, yeah. But knew him as, like, a character.

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

Knew him from shit like Labyrinth and knew him from things like Rocky Horror, but it was Tim Curry. So obviously Rocky Horror was hugely influential to me, but I was excited about this guy who'd already played. Played the devil, playing this devil clown, and I just wanted to hang out with him. But I also had been. I'd gotten to work with enough implied heroes to know that you can't be that guy. Yeah. You gotta come to work every day intending to do your work. And we're all professionals there. Even if you're 15 years old. Like, you better know your lines and hit your mark and not. Not make your co star uncomfortable by asking him to sign your Rocky Horror shirt. Like, you can't do that. Does he.

[B]

Do you get to, you know, does he break character or is he trying to keep that illusion of he never,

[A]

like, stayed in the club?

[B]

No, I don't think you'd be like.

[A]

It was pretty embarrassing. So I was arriving on set one day, and as we're going, they're like, hey, we're gonna tip. We're gonna pick up Tim from set. And I was like, oh, no. I look down, I'm realizing I'm wearing a literal Rocky Horror shirt off. That a friend of mine. His birthright, trip to Israel. It's the lips, but it's all in Hebrew. I was like, this is cool, guys, kind of. And so, like, the door opens and I. I was trying to, like, sneak out, be like, have a great day, Tim. He's like, oh, welcome to work. Oh. And I saw. He was like, nice shirt. And I was like, yeah, love you.

[B]

I love that, though. Oh, he must have. He must have gotten a kick out of that, though.

[A]

He's been. Been impossibly generous and kind to me over the time that we've known each other.

[B]

God bless him, dude. God bless him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. You want to talk about some of the tracks? Sure. I got some fun questions. Let's ask you about that. And then we're going to go through. And I want you to start thinking about your career. The rough parallel between your career and Bowie career.

[A]

This is that. I would never make that parallel.

[B]

No. Well, I did. And I feel. I feel okay with it. I feel okay with it.

[A]

There's so many fun things on this record. Too, like, he just trails off on a bunch of them. Do you know what I mean? They just like every. The song clearly ends and then they'll just be like a little. Just like a little end.

[B]

I love the sequencing on this record. I think this is actually. I think the way you open with Changes and. And closing with the Boule Brothers. I love the placement of oh, you pretty Things. But, like, to open with Changes, which is Argu, arguably one of the biggest hits probably on this. This is the first single released with Andy Warhol on the B side. Bowie said it began as a parody of a nightclub song, which is hilarious, given that it became one of his signature manifestos. It opens a record by announcing Flux itself as the mission statement. Bowie also said songs like this in Life on Mars were written. Hold on. Written on piano, which helps explain the theatrical chord rich feel. I mean, I love the hook. It's basically like the. The thesis for what Bowie's whole career is going to be to open up with this. And it's kind of like this is because it's this. This record is so different than the one before it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then the one before it. And then this record is like. Like the next record after this was Ziggy Stars is so fucking different.

[A]

It's a little. It's a little Monty Python. Like, just. And now for something completely different. Yes. You know.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

That's the thing about him being British is there's a very. There's such a nonchalance to. Well, now we're doing this and we'll do this just as well and as intentionally as everything before it.

[B]

What would you say would be, like, your changes? Was there, like a moment in your career where you had your, like, changes moment?

[A]

Yeah, because you've had.

[B]

You've had, like I said, you've had. You've had child actor. You've. Then you've had like, like, like teenage icon. And then you've had, like, going on to doing voice work and working with Robot Chicken and Family Guy on xyz. So you've had these different eras. Like, where do you think the biggest change came?

[A]

It was when it was between 12 and 16.

[B]

Puberty.

[A]

It was the most growth I was gonna have. It required me uprooting everything that was familiar. I stopped looking like all of the characters I had cornered the market playing as a child and was clearly not going to grow tall enough to compete in this particular category. And so rather than curse myself, I looked at the actors that really inspired me and they were all the Character actors, they were all the people that sometimes were the lead in something, but more often were like a critical element of an ensemble gamble or a supporting player whose character was so complicated that it challenged the main character's whole arc. And I was like, I think I just aim for that. Yeah, that's what got me the most excited. So I started doing silly. I started by growing my hair out. When I was about 14 years old, I let my hair grow out.

[B]

Oh, I remember.

[A]

But. And then when I made it, it was such a bummer because I had gotten this, like, great long hair. And then they. They were like, well, you need a. A flat top. So it was just a flat top crew cut. But it's acting right. Like, you look at what actors go through. And that was the other thing I was becoming comfortable with, was the idea that I'm not going to organically look like the characters I want to play. And I have to be willing to actually alter myself enough to be believably be this character. And I also want to. To not long to play characters that nobody would believe me playing. Like, I think that's unhealthy. So that's why I went through, like, the most significant changes I started doing. Really. I just didn't listen to anybody. I. My agent and manager were like, don't dye your hair. And I was like, I didn't want to dye my hair. And they were like, don't.

[B]

What color would you have dyed it?

[A]

Like, well, I did. I bleached it, like, almost white, blonde. It was like, down to here. It looked. Just looked crazy. I just looked crazy. Crazy.

[B]

No.

[A]

But then I showed up in commercial auditions or, like, guest stars on MTV shows, and I just looked like the youth in America.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? I was like, do. I was showing up at the concert, me with my hair dyed blue and my friend's hands dyed blue. You know what I mean? Like, that was kind of where we were living, and I just decided that that was going to be okay. And there's clearly stuff that I didn't audition for, wholeheartedly bringing that forceful of a Persona. But I. I started feeling more comfortable not trying to be exactly like everybody

[B]

else, because they were probably, like, trying to just pigeonhole you into the same thing.

[A]

Nobody knows what to do with.

[B]

Yeah, but they know what works. And your agent's like, sure, this. He keeps booking this.

[A]

They're like, we like this commodity because he's been able to. To be successful in this area.

[B]

What was the first role that you feel like you were like, yeah, this was, this was different.

[A]

The day after I dyed my hair, booked on an MTV show and it was the funniest thing. Everyone was furious. I was just like, I dyed my hair and they were like, what are you doing? And I was like, I'm going on these auditions and I booked that job. And so it was really encouraging for me that I could trust my gut sometimes. Not that you don't take the advice of professionals.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Not that you don't take the advice of the people you are employing on your.

[B]

But you know, you know, there's moments

[A]

where I'm the one in those rooms. I'm the one that's like reading these lines.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I mean there's so many, you know, I can't tell you how many instances, especially with standup comedy where it's like, oh, I don't fit the thing that everybody. I. I'm different. And if I was more like them, like Sam Morrell or more like this guy, I could be more successful. But it's like, nah, just keep it take longer. But you know, you plug along and it's like if you. But you know, especially you're already working and then it's like, it's like you can't, you just can't be. I mean it's Nike. I know you said earlier it's like, no. Does the check cash? Yes. But it's like also no.

[A]

It's disheartening though because I mean I was putting up like 1 in 30, you know what I mean? Through that period of time. It was a, it was a lower time. I had to really adjust where I was gonna be working.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, dude. All right. Oh, you pretty things. We already kind of mentioned this one. This may be the oldest original song on the record. First released by Peter I'm gonna the name Nuan. No Noon. God damn it. Look that up, dude, because I'm gonna it up. Some 50 year old guy in my basement is gonna. Not my basement. That sounded creepy in his basement. Is he gonna get mad at me?

[A]

You keep an old producers in your basement?

[B]

I do. We have a, we have a very, we've young like a workshop. There's a couple guys that, that, that, that follow along that I feel are gonna murder me.

[A]

It's like, it's like one of those scam computer scam houses. Except you guys are just still making music.

[B]

Dude. This is actually just. We're just like funneling money from the. For the Nigerian mob.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

This is very much like Publishing.

[A]

That's the best thing about cryptocurrency is all the money laundering.

[B]

God damn it.

[A]

Don't bring up crypto, dude, okay?

[B]

Don't bring up crypto.

[A]

Forget I said it. Come on, Trump.

[B]

I thought I bet on you.

[A]

Who?

[B]

That guy, the president guy.

[A]

The blonde girl. The one who's married to Jared Kushner?

[B]

No, the other one. Melania.

[A]

Her dad.

[B]

The one. The one who doesn't know to cuss properly. Melania. Donald, do you want to make Fox Tonight night we made 19 years ago we created our giant son, Donald.

[A]

You mean the duck from the Mickey's Clubhouse?

[B]

God damn, dude. Have you been living under a rock, man? That's. That's how busy you are.

[A]

Life on Mars, my man.

[B]

That's how busy you are.

[A]

What do you got? Oh, now, Now.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

You know Peter Na.

[B]

Oh, dude. Well, dude, he's. He's. He's. He's definitely put together the. The who's who of. Of rock and roll.

[A]

So is this true? Did they release changes under Herman's Hermit?

[B]

I don't know. Hold on. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's the other. He did.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

No, he clicked on. He clicked on the guy.

[A]

Oh, now he's got something else happening. So I do love that when you put in Bowie, the first thing is not David Bowie, it's Bowie knife. We definitely live in America, guys. Is that true?

[B]

No. There you go.

[A]

Oh, okay. David Bowie is. Is just above Bowie knife.

[B]

Well, when I put in bow, I go for the knife, obviously, because I'm a knife guy. But cool stuff about oh, you pretty things. It mixes domestic nerves. This is gonna fuck this. Word up. Nietzschean sci fi imagery about a coming race. In other words, a nursery rhyme written by a man who also seems to believe the baby may be an elegant alien upgrade, which I love. It's basically parenthood as evolutionary body horror, which is so bummed, Zoe, you got

[A]

to make way for the homo superior. Oh, dude. So.

[B]

So on Family Guy, Robot Chicken, he spent years helping shape comedy for generations that grew up on total media overload. When you look at your younger comedy audience now, do they feel like the coming race, like smarter, faster, and more reference addled, or do they just have better wi fi and the same emotional damage?

[A]

That's so funny. The context of that question, because I don't think that they're. Yes, they're. They're definitely seems to be a real attention deficit, and we were highly conscious of that third year Robot Chicken. I said to my partner, I Think we're like actively diminishing the attention span of our audience by having such quick hits. But what we really realized was that it's the sophistication of the audience that it bypassed our need for these kinds of setups. It's the same way that over 20 years everyone's become so comfortable with the concept of a superhero origin story story that that becomes its own colloquialism, right? Like, you don't need to know that Spider man got bit by this. You're like, I get it, it's a bug. And now he's got spider powers. So in the same way, I think it's more a product of the audience getting far more sophisticated. There's that, there's that. Forget what the test, how it actually was conducted. But it's like an ape test, right? Or orangutans. And they start, they put the one orangutan in the thing and he. There's two buttons. The one button gives him a treat, the other button gives him a shot.

[B]

Oh yeah, right.

[A]

And so then they introduce a second orangutan. And that second orangutan needs to go see for himself. Even the other guys go, you don't touch that button. The first, the second guy needs to touch the treat button and get shocked by the shock button. By the time a third one comes in there, the two of them are like, hey, don't touch that button. It's going to get you a shot. Touch this button, it's going to get you a treat. And then they keep adding orangutans and they keep teaching each other that this is the way we do it. So much so that they turn off the electric shock and no one will touch it, even though it doesn't do the thing anymore. It's crazy. We just become conditioned to kind of accept stuff, you know what I mean, that we're told is. Is happening. Sure, yeah.

[B]

But I also think that, you know, I mean, I don't know like how like it was like that whole like, you know, you know, is, is like. Did we talk mentioned Columbine earlier? But it's like, did column happen because of Eminem? Because of that Marilyn Manson? It's like, no, it's like, did the dumbing down of America come from, from the, the animation or the quickness?

[A]

No, it's from the actual gutting of public education across the country. Like, that's the active dumbing down of our society. It's the, it's the reduction of the presence of any kind of steam shit in Your school. It's like the actual adjustment of your historic texts, like, over time. There's a very intentional, aggressive dumbing down of a particular sect of our culture that seems unimpervious to those kinds of influences. So, you know, I. This is the, this is the thing I hated the most. When the, When Columbine happened. Everybody was coming after the video games.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

The music and Chris Rock, I think, was my first. The first person to say whatever happened happened to crazy. Yeah. Like these kid. What, I'm sorry, what rap music was Hitler listening to?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Was he, was he really into Call of Duty? Because it didn't seem to lessen his desire to, to murder other people.

[B]

And I'm really doing some violence when I hear some vogner, you know what I mean? Some real good German classical.

[A]

I take no responsibility for the dumbing down of the culture. If anything, I think that I'm paying forward some of the lessons that I got from the things that influenced me from, from Monty Python's Flying Circus to Saturday Night Live. It was all intellectually aspirational comedy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The most it does is make folly of the inherent silliness of human beings.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Like, I also not cut you off, but I also feel like it's like now it's such a clear cut thing where it's like, it is the social media and the people like, you know, removing all the fucking guardrails so you can pretty much post anything and you can find anything. And it's just, it's like we, it's not, it's not the music. It's not, you know, it's our, it's our government. It's all, it's just, it's every little thing, but it's like, it's really being proven now just how much of social media is just like, I mean, just.

[A]

It's shaping the conversation in a way. It's, it's, and it's, it's shaping the global conversation because it's the closest thing that we have to like a central source of information. And as a result, it feels like whatever you see practiced on these platforms, like the way that people talk to each other, you know what I mean? That exploded so quick. It went from people reaching out to me like, oh my God, I tweeted with Wayne Newton. So all of a sudden you're like, I told Wayne Newton to fuck off. And somehow that came the goal. They were like, they were like, gosh, I don't get as many likes. It's almost like they followed the program of the news. Right. There was a point where the news stopped reporting the news and they were just showing you people blowing or car accidents. They were like the literal. If it leads. Right. So they're just trying to get ratings and at some point you, you, you, you as the audience recognize you're the product. And this is all clickbait and it's actually shaping the way you feel every day. You open up your phone and you scroll past something that's like somebody lip syncing a dance to like a picture of a really cute puppy being born to like, oh, there's a, an immigrant being dragged behind a truck on the sidewalk. And oh, here's somebody buddy, a vet coming home to his daughter.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And oh, here's enemy combatants being blown up with mortar fire.

[B]

Yeah, you're just.

[A]

I think that we as a people, we're not built for this. A lot of people are experimenting with the idea. A lot of. A couple countries are experimenting with the idea of social media being 18 and up.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

It's, you know, we, it's humbling to remember we're still in the beta of any of this shit. Right. Like we're less than 20 years. We get to experience it. We love.

[B]

Dude, we lucked out. We were right there, dude. We had that whole pre life without it and then we got it at the, in the 20s.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like a really so awkward areas like I learned how to drink about that point. You know what I mean? I already went through Molly and my rave, you know, period. So it's like to get it where we got it. Like I just, I couldn't imagine being a kid.

[A]

Well, it's also so juvenile and innocent at that point. Like it's. When I, when I got on the Internet it was just like listservs and email. Oh yeah, that was insane. Like that was insane that I didn't have to send a handwritten letter. But then you just sound like like an elderly person even though this is less than 30 years ago.

[B]

I know. And then also your whole household shut down. No phone line, no nothing. Because you took it over because you wanted to download one song on Napster that took five hours.

[A]

By the time that happened, this is, I'll say it just because it's out. It sounds like a flex. By the time that happened, I was living by myself and I was paying my own really bills. So I was just like, I just kept that plugged in all day.

[B]

Oh, good for you, dude. Yeah, dude, it was. We had one computer and that was it. But also, you know, bringing it back to like, to like Family Guy. And I mean, if I remember because, you know, I remember when the Simpsons came out, which is so. I mean it's so PG compared to. But. But they thought Bart was bad.

[A]

You just have to remember the time like the Simpsons came out after Married With Children. Married With Children was so bold told that they were talking about things like erectile dysfunction. They were doing it cleverly through coded words. But yeah, this is still like earlier the. The actually it's like mid to end of the 80s and the TV just hadn't progressed. What, what really changed it, I think was obviously cable, right? So cable becomes a premium market where they're not gonna censor the. The seven dirty words. But then once you've got the Internet, the ratings, they're just, just pulling off of these terrestrial networks. And so the networks are like, what are we going to do? We need to swear. We need to show asses on NYPD Blue. We need to show side boob in the 10 o' clock hour to try and get anybody interested.

[B]

So funny. So true. I remember that. Dude, there's a butt cheek and NYPD Blue for real.

[A]

But it starts with saying like on television. And then before you know it, you see just like a little bit of flap in a shadow. Shadow. You know what I mean? Like everyone's pushing.

[B]

There's not enough bring back shadowy, please. Not just on Cinemax. Hbo.

[A]

It's not just for hbo.

[B]

Come on amc. Step your game up, dude.

[A]

For real. You know, we need a walking dead. Shadowy flap.

[B]

I couldn't take the fact that like that was why I got out of like the Walking Dead is they finally started cussing around season two and three because the whole first season it was like these freaking zombies. You're like, it's a zombie me. Just like, it's like Jiminy Crickets, like the zombie. What the frick? It's like, nah, dude, just say because that's what's going to come out of your mouth. And you know, and more flap. Zombie flap too.

[A]

Andy Lincoln still owes us a shadowy dude.

[B]

They doing a new iteration of it. Come on, dude, get.

[A]

That's your pull quote right there. You think, do you think this a bold slug line?

[B]

Do you think.

[A]

Do you think Andy Lincoln owes us shadowy G. Fl.

[B]

I'm looking at you, Andy.

[A]

Can you clip that for me, please?

[B]

Definitely out under the. The mainframe. No, I. But, yeah, but it's just. I mean there's the evolution of what was. What was like, risque in 89. And like, you said, Married With Children, which is so funny because I just went to their. Like, their little town hall thing.

[A]

I did, too.

[B]

Did you go to it the whole time?

[A]

Yeah, because I've. No, We. This is so funny, man. I made.

[B]

When you were there, too, too, dude. That. It was.

[A]

I was really excited to get to share it, man. I've known those folks for a very long time. Like, I made. This sounds dumb, but I made. I was shooting Facts of Life on the Gower stage while they were making the second season of Married With Children and who's the Boss? And so just when you're kids and you're working on a lot, like your teen actors, you're just so excited to see other kids that are doing it. And especially because, like, I knew Alyssa and she was actually doing the thing. So I got to. I mean, Dave and I met each other. We're both, like, short kids, too. Constantly mistook for one another. I can't tell you how many times in my career people have been like, yo, Bud Bundy. So much. So much so that when Dave did. He did a show for crack for Sony called Starving, and it was him and Corey Nemec, and he did like a. A reunion. Got everybody Ed and. And Katie and Christina, everybody. Everybody together. And the whole idea was like, we're doing a reunion. We're rebooting the Bundys. And they go around the table and introduce everybody and start reading the script. And when it gets to Bud Bundy's line, they suddenly reveal that I'm there and I'm reading the lines. And Dave starts reading the line at the same time, and he's like, whoa. What? I go, oh, shit, Dave. Nobody told you I'm doing it. And so we just. I don't know. It's very silly, but it's like a loop. Close. Boy, what a tangent. I'm sorry.

[B]

No, no, no. But that's what I'm saying is like. Like, it's. What. What's considered risque back then.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is so tame now. I mean.

[A]

But.

[B]

But Married With Children still push the. Push the limits a little bit.

[A]

But it's like a culture born of, like, swim dresses. You know what I mean? We still. We. We. We're not so far from the Crusades.

[B]

I know you're not wrong, dude. Girl showed her ankle back in the 1920s.

[A]

We have to cut those legs off. Yeah. It's only fair, dude.

[B]

See a little ankle. No, but it's also. Then you have, you know, just the idea of, like, where. Where Family Guy has gone and then even south park, which has taken it to a place, but it's like, is it because, like, is it because something like these kids saying it on south park where it's like, oh, it's okay. Even though there's adults that are behind the voices?

[A]

Yes. Do you mean, like, why is south park so effective?

[B]

No, I just. I just was saying, like, you know, where we were still talking about the. The idea of, like, you know, the. Not the dumbing down or, like, the shortening of this, but it's like, where I was saying Simpsons was offensive back in 89 because they were like, you can't parts, you know, eat my shorts.

[A]

My shorts.

[B]

That's like nothing now. That's, like, so vanilla. And then you have, like, south park, like, you know, the. The. The. The episode with the Paris Hilton slut off, and he's like, he throws her in her ass, and then she goes on an adventure with Lemmy Winks. I mean, it's. It's crazy.

[A]

It is.

[B]

It's like you get something like, deserves

[A]

to be a king. That's the thing, like, when you go through those kinds of things. Struggles.

[B]

Yeah, dude. But it's like, did you find that with anything from, like. With, like, Family Guy? Have you guys gotten a lot of push back from that or.

[A]

The upside about that show is I can always claim ignorance because I'm just an actor on the show. And so whatever they write, I'm always like, sorry, whoever. And if it's somebody that I know, I'll ask not to make the joke in the booth. I'm like, we're going to run into each other. Please don't make me say this about Hugh Jackman. Like, we'll be. There'll be a moment where we run into each other. He's so much bigger than me. Don't make me say that.

[B]

Has there. What's. Has there been a joke that you. You have.

[A]

There's been. There's been like a handful of times I can never. I can't. I can't remember off the cuff. But it was always, like, a person. A joke about a particular person. I'm like, we actually. I'm going to see them this weekend. And please don't make me say this.

[B]

Hilarious.

[A]

It was.

[B]

I love that. I love that. All right, Life on Mars. Let's talk about this one. The. This is one of Bowie's masterpieces, built partly out of the ghost of his abandoned My Way Rewrite History. Bowie called it a sensitive Young girl's reaction to the media in an earlier note, specifically to songs like My Way, movies like Love Story and Newspaper Papers. It was recorded in the final Hunky dory session on 8-6-71. It became a major hit when released in 73. Yeah, I mean, Mark Ronson's string arrangement in it is just incredible. I love the satire, like we spoke about earlier, the media nausea. I mean, it's the. It's such a great trick to, like, making alienation sound gorgeous.

[A]

Yeah. And it's also like, that, the encouragement of the audience. Like, don't you realize, guys, you're doing it? And of course, it feels horrific, it feels dystopic, but that's. That we're really winning now. You know what I mean? What is so up?

[B]

What is it? I mean, if it, like, if. This is one of the few hits off of the record that I do when I do the podcast, we do an album that. It's like, I can't get enough. I could listen to this over and over and over. Whereas certain songs, I'm like, all right, you know, like, I. I'll skip over that because I've not heard it so many much like, changes. I didn't. I. Once I listened to the record all the way through, I was like, I've heard that before. It's a great song. What is it about this? Is it. Is it about the substance? When, like I said, once you understand what it's about, that makes it even that much more special. Is it the chord progression for you? Is it the melody? Like, what is it that sticks out for you for a song like this? And, like, why it's like. Has such lasting effect and become one of his, like, staples.

[A]

For me, it all just feels so intentional. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that there's always something new left for you to discover, even if it wasn't something that he consciously embedded. There's so much thought and feeling into every moment of that song. Like, none of it is careless. None of it feels accidental. Like, you know, this. You like. I love Nirvana. Nirvana's like, one of my favorite bands. They made a lot of great records, but they would be the first ones to sing. Say sometimes we would just, like, I don't know. I make these words rhyme.

[B]

Oh, sure. Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean, I just want to. As much as we're doing this, we're

[A]

doing this, and it's no less a great song, but there's something about life on Mars where everything you could tell, even if it was as carelessly recorded as it seems to have been. There's. There's something in every note of it. There's something in the placement, the sequencing, the. The delays of the vocals in places, the.

[B]

The.

[A]

The subtle change in words here or there in. In, you know, choruses or bridges. It's. Everything about it is so directed and intentionally placed.

[B]

And if it was. And if it was just a little bit off of. He doesn't say, like, Mickey Mouse grown up a cow there. Whatever it is. It's just every little morsel of this song is just such a perfect.

[A]

Because you can pull out of that, right? Like, Mickey Mouse is one of the. The most beloved globally recognized silhouettes, if not visual visible icon. And to say Mickey Mouse has grown up a cow. The concept of a cow, not the. The Indian interpretation of it as like something holy, but more something that is literally bred for slaughter. So all of your pop, all of these things, we're just going to eat them in the end. Because that's what we do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Speaking of, speaking of, like, of something that's so iconic in pop culture is like, you be able to. To. To have. Not have your way, but, you know, work in the Star wars realm, you know, twice, basically with Family Guy, but also with Robot Chicken.

[A]

I know we talk. McFarland and I talked about that when it was happening. We're both like, how is this happening?

[B]

I mean, I know that's probably. It was just like a Hail Mary type thing. And.

[A]

But it.

[B]

Realistically, when you saw it coming together, what was the moment that you were like, oh, this is going to happen?

[A]

When George said yes, why no.

[B]

But like, what was that?

[A]

Was it. We were just like, well, now we're just doing this. This. No one's going to stop trying. We're like, he said, yes, we better do this. We better do this. Really great. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But what do you say? Like, how did you. Was it hard to get to him to do that?

[A]

I mean, by the time we pitched that, it was easier to get to him because we'd had enough interactions with him. Like, when we wound up taking that first meeting with his company, it was because they had seen our sketch. The Emperor phone call.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they thought that was funny. And they didn't know how they were going to integrate that into their upcoming plans, but they wanted to do something with us. And my partner Matt was the one who pitched the idea of us doing a half hour of dedicated robot. And so once that they were, like, considering that, then we just Full swing. We're like, well, this is how much it would cost. This is what it would take. This is what we would do. What do you think about that? And then we, like, wound up having to get both of these companies, Warner Brothers and Lucasfilm, to agree with each other. And it was lucky, again, because it was just one guy at that point directing everybody. So we could say to their business affairs, hey, George wants this to happen. And it would happen. You know what I mean? That's very different than it. It just wouldn't be possible in the same way.

[B]

He's a man, huh?

[A]

He was. Yeah. Yeah. He was. Still remains the man, but he was the man at that company. Oh, God, dude. Yeah, he's. He. He doesn't disappoint.

[B]

Well, I mean, but also, it's like. Like, what were you most excited about? To spoof or not spoof, but, you know, honor in. In the Robot Chicken stuff.

[A]

Like, what was sort of happened, like the first special that we did. It was such a kitchen sink, right? Like, we're just throwing in everything. Every joke we've been thinking about, about any funny thing that had been, like, stuff that was so iconic to nerdcore that just hadn't been conversations that happened in mass. And so we were like, oh, here's a great chance to make all these jokes that we know already work. By the time we got to make a second one, we were like, what if we did a bit of a loose narrative? Like, I was always obsessed with the bounty hunters and who were these guys, like, before they all showed up on the Executor?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that. That was really funny. We're like, let's write book a about each of the bounty hunters and tell kind of a story about all of them getting this job. What happened, whether they, you know, Boba Fett's the guy that catches him. What happens around that? And then by the time we did the last one, Sen Raich had just seen Wicked. So he was like, this is an amazing way to rewrite the emotional position of the emperor. So by the time he made the last one, the one that Makeda and it. We were making, like, the story of Palpatine's Folly. Like, you know, he's the hero of his story. And so by the time he's. That's how we started. It's. It's like Vader throwing him off into the chasm. He's like, Ron. He's like, no, no, no. And he's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. How did we get here?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? It takes us all the way back. It's really fun.

[B]

Oh, it's so amazing.

[A]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[B]

It's. It's so. I mean, like, you, your, you know, five, six, seven year old self. I mean, you were born in, what, 74. 74. So, I mean, God damn, dude.

[A]

I saw. I saw it in 78.

[B]

You saw it in the theater? How many times did you go see it?

[A]

Probably I saw it twice. And by. I think by 80, Empire was out or 81. And so my. My folks knew I was sprung on it. It was C3 and C3PO and. And R2. Like, seeing that struck me, the lightsabers, the whole thing. I was like, that is. I want to. To listen there.

[B]

Rank. Rank your. I don't want to say all of them forever.

[A]

I have this list on my phone.

[B]

Do you really? Is this including the newest of the news?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's ranked across all the new. It'll just take me a second to find it, but if you actually want it. I actually have it.

[B]

Yeah, dude, of course I want it. While you pull that up, I'm gonna go into kooks. This is Bowie writing about his newborn son, Duncan Jones. Incredible director, by the way. Right? Duncan Jones.

[A]

Oh, that's so interesting about that.

[B]

Yeah, he did Moon, the Sam Rockwell movie, which is amazing. He did. He did that Gyllenhaal movie. What was that called?

[A]

Nightcrawler.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no. That's Tony Gilroy. Oh, God damn.

[A]

Was.

[B]

It was. It was a movie about, like. Like a bomb that goes off and he keeps going, having to replay.

[A]

Oh, the one was on the train.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

What was.

[B]

Was it source code?

[A]

Source code.

[B]

Real underrated director. And then he did Warcraft, which I don't know if anyone really saw that one.

[A]

I saw it.

[B]

Did you see it?

[A]

I did.

[B]

Should I go see?

[A]

But I didn't play that game, so I didn't have any dog in the fight. I was like, this is entertaining.

[B]

Me neither. My roommate did, who also had one of the biggest porn collections on a hard drive. And I used to, like, try to steal the hard drive and put it on my shitty computer and basically, like, broke the whole.

[A]

Overloaded, everything.

[B]

Oh, dude. You know it's bad when you have a roommate that has, like, you know, terabytes of porn. Yeah, this is back before pornhub. This is.

[A]

So he was like, one of the founders of pornhub.

[B]

I think he really, like.

[A]

You can actually. He's doing.

[B]

They were getting it all from his hard drive. All right, so Bowie, writing about his newborn son debuted, debuted it only days after the birth. It said he had been listening to Neil Young when he got the news. It's one of the warmest, least guarded things he's ever recorded. I'll agree with, with that. I think this is a beautiful song on the album. Full of ambition and image games. Suddenly here is Bowie just saying, basically, our family is weird. You'll fit right in. It's sweet, funny, gentle, self mocking the sound of a future glam deity.

[A]

It's also a warning. He's like, you better watch yourself because if you hang out with us. Oh yeah, you're going to be kooky too.

[B]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you got? You got it?

[A]

No, and this is really embarrassing because I usually have everything so well listed did and I must just be missing this, but it's because I went all the way through because some of the top content, if you're talking about Star wars is the animation. And a lot of it's, it's controversial just because people who love the films haven't watched a lot of the animation. But the animation is some of the

[B]

best, like Clone wars and stuff like that.

[A]

Clone Wars. And I, I say this with love for everybody in it. You could, you could reasonably skip the first two seasons interesting. And just jump in. And then if you're, if you're on like Disney, they have curated episode art arcs across like Clone wars and Rebels. But Rebels is. It's what George wanted to talk about when he's talking about the Force and when he's talking about the Jedi and he's talking about like the other people's experience in the galaxy surrounding those ideas.

[B]

Do you think this is not about Bowie? This was still about Star Wars. Do you think Star wars with Disney can get back on track?

[A]

Oh, that's interesting. Where, where. What do you mean by back on track?

[B]

I feel I, you know, look, I, I love when, when George left, I think because I think they, I think Phantom Menace was fine, but Darth Maul saved it. I think the same thing with part two, the Clone wars or the. The Attack of the Clones.

[A]

Attack of the Clones is, is the

[B]

Yoda fight that saved the whole movie. And I think Revenge of the Sith is one of the best ones in the whole fucking thing. I think that was. Was Washington Post really a really great article about. It's like how we were always wondering how Vader would turn and he did a great job of showing that. And then of Course, the excitement when he sells it. And you got, you know, Kathleen Kennedy doing all this, and it's like. I think, what was it? The Force Awakens was great, but it was just really resurging the front, the first one again. And then it just. You know, it just. A lot of people have just kind of, you know, especially with the Alkali Light just wasn't.

[A]

Did you watch the Acolyte? No, no, I did. I watched the Acolyte. I really enjoyed the Acolyte. Here's the hard part about the Acolyte. It's not perfect, but the that's cool. Is so cool that I wish they got to do more of it. There's plenty of things that you could consider controversial. I didn't find any of the things that people wrote about or complained about to be an obstacle for entry. It just wasn't perfect. There's plenty of things they could have done differently that would have made it better, but the shit they got right, the twins, the. The stranger, the. The concept of a Sith discovering what it is. The Sith don't exist when this starts. So the idea of someone having been trained by a dark entity, that's not even entirely understood.

[B]

Understood.

[A]

And then that character demanding a student. It's. It's really cool. And that character that Manny Jacinto plays, boy, he just plays it so well. It was one of the most exciting characters I'd seen in a while. So I know that a lot of people had a lot of unwarranted hate for that. It's just.

[B]

But, see, when you. When you did. When you did the Robot Chicken stuff and when Family Guy did their episode, it's. It's like it's honoring it. And it's not like. You know what I mean? It's like, yes, you're making fun of things. You're maybe teasing it, but you're not, like, destroying her. And I just think a lot of the stuff that I had read. I mean, by the way, like, I haven't seen it.

[A]

It's stuff. If you don't see it. That's the thing we could have a conversation about, like, because I've seen. I've seen so much of this stuff, and it all depends on who the audience is. Like, I got. I privileged enough to have a conversation with George about it. Like, talking to him about the Phantom Menace, the receipt of these characters versus the way over time, all these things were received by adults. And we were talking about Jar Jar Binks. And I'll never forget this because I said you know, Jar Jar's so foolish and he's so cartoony that it's like infuriating to any of the adults. And he goes, you, you, you saw Star wars in the theater. And I go, I did. He goes, do you remember in Empire he said, who's your favorite character? And I said, C3PO. And he goes, do you remember in Empire strikes back when C3B was blah, blah, blah, they don't get the specifics of the DT and Han solos. Would you shut that guy off?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do you, you remember what you were thinking? And I said, yeah, I was thinking, I hope they turn him back on. And he goes, yeah, because you're a little kid. He goes, you remember how loud all the adults laughed when that happened? And he goes, jar Jar is not for the 30 year old you that grew up loving this, romanticizing it, idolizing it. He said, jar Jar is for the kids that have yet to discover Star wars and need this entry point the same way that you needed C3PO. And if you go watch those movies, C3PO was a fool. A fool. Cool. But he's right. And so it's just us, these adults that have grown up like applying this, you know, afterthought, reverence to it.

[B]

What album by Bowie would. Wait, what, what movie from Star wars would this album be, you think? Hunky Dory? Yeah, Star wars movie. Which one is it?

[A]

It's gotta be one of the movies. Or could it be like another piece of movie?

[B]

Anything in the thing. Anything in the ethos.

[A]

I don't know if anybody would get this, but it feels a little like Ahsoka, right? Oh, the live action series that Filoni made. Like the way that Ahsoka is like stripped down and raw and like just the main chord without a lot of extra production. You know what I mean? Like the, that they're, that they're dealing with in Ahsoka is like core tenants of the Force and the, the light dark balance. It was the stuff that they were really getting into in the end of Rebels, which again, I couldn't more highly recommend. Oh, and Bad Batch too. Like, Bad Batch is a really great show. Bad Batch is great. It's tough because sometimes the animation is a little barrier to entry to.

[B]

No, it's not even the animation stuff. I'm just 46 years old and I put something on, I fall asleep. Dude. Yeah, dude. It's just, I mean, drinking a cup of coffee. Yeah. Like at 2 in the morning, there's

[A]

certain arcs and you can find Them collected. That'll make it really easy to understand why that. That stuff is some of the best storytelling in Star Wars.

[B]

What character would Bowie be on Star Wars? Who would.

[A]

Man, that's really hard, right? Because he. He carries the weight of so many of these characters. Characters. Like, he could easily. He could just as easily be Darth Pliegas as he could be Cassian andor.

[B]

Who the are these people? I'm like, please.

[A]

Oh, wait, say, you know Star Wars. What are you talking about?

[B]

The.

[A]

Are you talking about?

[B]

He's killing it. Yeah, I mean, I'm like. I'm like, God, I thought he was gonna go, Mace Windu.

[A]

Mace Windu.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Although that's one of my favorite lines ever in Robot Chicken. The emperor is talking Mace Windu and he goes, nobod. Even found this funny, but his name is Mace Windu, and I threw him out a window. Yeah, dude, Mace, window.

[B]

That's hilarious.

[A]

I threw him out the window.

[B]

So if it make him a more. Make Bowie a more character that. That the. The blanket me. Idiot.

[A]

I just think Bowie, especially with this record, like, he's got so much to say and he's such a master of different characters that I wouldn't. I. I don't think there's a role he could attempt to inhabit that I wouldn't accept. Accept him. All right, let's do.

[B]

Let's do. Do I want to do Annie Warhol song for Bob? Let's do Queen.

[A]

I'll take it.

[B]

This track is Bowie doing his Velvet Underground homework extremely well, but also making it his own. Billboard specifically points to its gay vernacular in perspective, which makes it one of the sharper example of Bowie's early queer coded songwriter. It's also part of the BBC Peel era live repertoire around this period. I mean, the cool shit I found was. It's the only way to describe it. It's swaggering. I wrote observant, funny, catty in the best sense. If some of Hunky Dory's songs are upholstered pianos, I wrote this one is a cigarette outside the venue telling you exactly who is in the room is fake.

[A]

Oh, I like that a lot. Lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, it's very confident. It's. I mean, it's a. It's a thing. It's a thing that's pretty consistent with Bowie. It's intellectual and unapologetic.

[B]

This is. You know, the placement on it right before the Belway Brothers is perfect.

[A]

Yeah, right. What a comp.

[B]

And I know we mentioned that one earlier, but I Wanted the question I had for Queen. So you played outsiders, you played weirdos, side characters who somehow become the thing audiences remember. Number in your experience, why do the oddballs win?

[A]

They're more committed, you know what I mean? Typically, they're just more committed to what they're doing, and they, through their tenacity and unwaveringness, become convincing to even their critics.

[B]

But also, like, you know, you. Because you started acting at such a young age, did you really ever have a chance to, you know, to be the oddball because you had to fit in with. You know what I mean? You had to. You had to be an adult. Like you said earlier. It was like you almost had to, like, conform to, like, all right, I've got to show up, hit my lines.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

This.

[A]

That's just at work, though, you know what I mean? And I'm working with adults, so I had this very strange experience of, like, working with adults and then being friends with their teenage kids.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I knew to a lot of kids whose parents I worked with, and I had that crazy pov, this absurd POV of like, talking to my teenage friends about the problems they're having with their parents and then talking candidly with their parents about the trouble my co worker is having with their kid. You know, you're like.

[B]

Because you're like. I always like, when you go to your friend's house and you say, hey, Mrs. Jenkins, good to see you. What's up? Cool. We go upstairs and play, right? You would sit down and be like, oh, man. Like, no, we would see each other, by the way. You know, Frank's doing great.

[A]

It was. It was in passing. I'd come over to the house, and the parents weren't there. You know, we'd hang out with the kid. Like, the kids were friends of mine. We would do kids stuff with teenage kid stuff. And then. Then I would go to work on a job and, like, somebody's parent was the lead on that show that I'm doing a week on as this kid.

[B]

Hilarious.

[A]

You know what I mean? So you just spend all your time, all of your downtime, hang out with each other.

[B]

What. What character did you play that you felt you put the most. The most of you was in it. Meaning not me and most of you, but, like, you got to be. It was the thing that you would say is closest to. To. To Seth.

[A]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't really. I'm sure there's things of me that I bring to all these characters. Like, there's my own experience. But for the most part, I don't really think any of these characters are played. They all have sort of parts of me. Like, I don't try. I try not to play. Play terrible people unless there's a real joy to being a terrible person. Like, if there's a bad guy character. I played sort of bad guys. I do. Like, I played very bad guys. I played the. I played the series Foil on Entourage. I'm like, the greatest bad guy that ever haunted that show.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Oh, that's my favorite role. I. I'm. I think my biggest mistake was just that character's name, Seth Green, instead of, like, I think if it had been named, like, Kirky Jerkin or whatever, like, I could have won an Emmy. But, like, since it just sort of almost confused Pop in a moment playing that guy.

[B]

What about something like this? I know this is, like. This is such a weird segue, but something like airborne, which is like. That's when you had your long.

[A]

I did.

[B]

Which you looked crazy. Phenomenal. No, phenomenal.

[A]

Well, you read it. The second the camera turns to him, you're like, oh, that guy's not gonna get me a girlfriend. Like you. Really? That was. The joy of that character is he was. He was, like, strange. He's like, no, I picked these glasses, right? Like, I did. I cut my hair this way. Like, everything about him was on purpose.

[B]

But you had so many great scenes. You had so many great scenes with Jack.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I don't know why I'm acting like. I'm like, Jack Black, everybody.

[A]

Has he been on this? He loves music.

[B]

No, but.

[A]

But we.

[B]

We're. Here's. The cool thing is we're getting down to the nitty gritty of the final hundred. So now it's like, all just where you, like. Like this, like, getting you is like. I think we've been trying to get you for a minute, but it's like, oh, here's. Here's something really easy.

[A]

This is a record. I love this record. I'm excited to talk about it. I told you when I. When I pulled up, it was fun because I've just been playing it all week, remembering all the different ways these different songs hit me, the way the whole album hit me.

[B]

Oh, this is. Yeah, this is. This is the best thing about doing the podcast is just the more you listen to it, the more you, like, if you haven't listened to it in a while. But also. So for someone like me who's, like, known it, I heard it a while Ago, but now to go through and just get all the doodads and the facts about it. And it's just. The more you listen, it just affects you in such a way where. It's the same thing where I was saying with something like airborne when I brought up earlier, which is like, I know that sounds. It affects me because I remember coming home from school and watching that on hbo. Yeah. But then also, you have somebody like Jack Black. Did you have any idea, like, when you're working with someone like Jack? Yeah, just like the direction. Because, I mean, you've worked with so

[A]

many people, you can tell. It's like I said, when you see. When you meet Carrie Underwood, you're like, oh, you're really good. So you can sing. Yeah, there's a difference. When I was obsessed with Jack, and that was actually a point when I was filming everything, I. I bought a video camera, a VHSC camera. I wound up cutting together a short, which some day I. I'll maybe recut and publish. But it's like all of us behind the scenes is shooting that movie. I had seen Mel Gibson do a personal doc behind the scenes of Lethal Weapon 2, and they showed it on HBO, and it was the craziest. It was just so silly. Like him and Danny Glover complaining about their socks being quitters. Like, this sock doesn't have a strong enough elastic band. The whole thing is them going to the wardrobe department. It's just very silly. So I was. I was like, I'm going to make something. I shot. I brought my video camera. Anytime Jack was anywhere near me, I'm just gonna film this guy. Jesus Christ. I called Brecken Meyer. I was like, you. You're not gonna believe this kid I'm working with. This kid's one of the funniest people I've ever met in my life. A couple years after we made that movie, Jack and Kyle started putting up Tenacious D. And they're putting it up at, like, the Laugh Factory. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Anywhere.

[A]

So I just went. Every. Anytime they were doing. I was like, you. You see this genius. This whole thing was something else, man. Yeah, I. I was paying close attention to him. It was very clear who was.

[B]

Who else would you say that you would, like, work with that before they had even done anything? Because you've worked with so many young actors and so many people that are, like, even older people that you were, like, that might have, like, broke later, but was there. Was it. Who was. Besides Jack? Was there somebody. You were like, oh, yeah, this guy is about to go.

[A]

I don't seem incredibly intuitive for this, but Beyonce was in the Austin Powers when she was 19 years old.

[B]

Old. But she was our. There's still Jesse's Child.

[A]

It was Destiny's Child, but they were a group, and there was something very clear that year. She just shifted into, like, superstar. And when you're on a movie set with everybody and everybody's just hanging out there, there's people that are just exploding with talent. And you can tell, like I said, I don't sound like, oh, my God. I. I called it. She'd already been cast in that role, but it was before she and Jay Z hooked up. It was before Crazy in Love. It was before that whole summer of music. It's a whole different thing.

[B]

That's what I was saying is, like, you've had these, like. These, like.

[A]

But it wasn't like, I'm so smart because I called it. It's just like, I got it. I got to be in the presence of this woman before the world got to discover how absurdly town 100.

[B]

100. All right. So I guess this is.

[A]

I felt the same way about Jack, too.

[B]

Like.

[A]

Like, Jack so quickly started starring in movies, and it was less than 12 years before he made School of Rock.

[B]

But it was like seeing him, because I. Dude, I noticed. And maybe it was the red hair. And it was also, like I said, because I grew up with you. It was just. I always, like. You were always like, oh, like, no, I know this guy. And I. You kind of. I aged with you.

[A]

That's the thing I got to do. That was lucky. Right? Like, I still feel like people like, I'm still. I'm like the. The. I'm like the make a wish kid of this industry. Right? Like, everyone's like, oh, that's. I feel like the same. We knew that guy. The guy. This guy. It's this weird thing, like, So I just leaned into playing those characters.

[B]

Yeah, but they make a wish, they end up dying. Like, you're. You're still killing it.

[A]

I'm definitely going to die someday.

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

Hopefully not soon. I still. There's still. I'd like to say a few more

[B]

questions, so please just not. Not yet.

[A]

Wouldn't that be terrible? It's just like, oh, dude.

[B]

That's the thing that scares me the most about death is not how I die. It's where I die really well, because,

[A]

you know, you're gonna. Yourself.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

No matter what.

[B]

It's gonna be like an outback steakhouse or something. Right.

[A]

That'd be such a blooming onion. Oh, and he himself. Guys, we're gonna need a mop.

[B]

Yeah, it's like, at least to make it like a. Like a. Like a Lowry's, not a. Not Outback, which I actually like. Outback.

[A]

Your. Your race to improv has maybe put you in Dutch with some sponsors. Answers.

[B]

Keep, keep, keep, keep setting those up, Emily.

[A]

I love Outback.

[B]

Oh, wait, dude. I was employee of the month 1995. June19.

[A]

You worked in an Outback steakhouse?

[B]

The day I got the pin, I went to go see Escape from la.

[A]

Do you know Brecken? Brecken's in that.

[B]

Is he really?

[A]

Yeah, he's one of the surfboarders.

[B]

No way.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

God, it's like. I just only know it's from Pam Greer.

[A]

Sure. The dude, were you as excited as I was, man? Because I loved Escape from New York. So when Escape from LA was, I tried to get in and there was no getting me getting in it. And then when I saw it, I was just so excited to go see it.

[B]

I. I was Escape from LA first. And then I went back to watch Escape from New York. That's because they did something on like HBO or something. They showed the behind the scenes making of it. And I was like, this looked rad. Yeah, they had like rock, maybe like docking or some weird metal band in the background. And I was like, this is cool. And then it was. Went to see it. It was good. Yeah, Escape from New York is way better.

[A]

It's a very different.

[B]

Also the thing. Yeah, the same thing.

[A]

That's the Kurt Russell, John Carpenter, like, it's all. It's great.

[B]

Dude, you're. You are Bowie, bro.

[A]

You.

[B]

Your career is very Bowie esque. Is.

[A]

I know, it's a weird.

[B]

I have no segues here, by the way.

[A]

I don't even have a response to that.

[B]

So this is a fun comparison. All right, this is how we're going to end this. Before we do our final questions, Bowie and Seth, who's you? You're both identity surfers, but in different mediums. Bowie jumped between glam, alien, soul, sophisticate, thin white, Duke, Berlin experimentalist, which, by the way, when I was in Berlin this summer, I got a private tour of Honza Studios and I stood in the exact same spot that Bowie was standing in when he looked out the window and saw Toddy Visconte kissing his girlfriend and came up with the idea for the song He Heroes.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

And I held the mic that Iggy Pop did lust for life.

[A]

Yeah. It's something, isn't it? Like, there's something in the. Even if it's just our own implication, when you stand in a place where other humans have been. Where something significant happened, you can feel it, dude.

[B]

I did that. I had a private tour of Abbey Road, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is obviously like. Like. Oh, just. It's like. It's like Mecca. Not just because of the Beatles. Like, they did the Alien school.

[A]

Yeah. They've done a lot of crazy there.

[B]

They did the Alien score there, which is one of my favorite movies. But it's. It was funny because I was, like. With my buddy, you know, Jelly Roll. I was, like, taking him around. I was. I toured with him this summer, and I was, like, trying to, like. He was like, I find stuff in. Around Munich. And I was like, hey, let's go to the beer hall, Poosh. I take him there, and he goes, because what's this? And I was like, this is. You know, this is where the Nazi party started. He goes, why are you showing this to us?

[A]

Because now we're doing this here.

[B]

This is like a thing. It's like. He's like, this is, like, where the Beatles did their last performance. He goes, you can't compare where the Nazi party started to the. To the. To the Beatles, you know, final performance.

[A]

It's history.

[B]

It's history.

[A]

It is history. It's an.

[B]

It's a.

[A]

There is something, too, that I enjoy, which is making finding joy and communion in places that were used for divisiveness. Right. Like, I. I made a. I shot a movie with. I had a German producer, and I was raised Jewish. And. And he's. He's got gay. And so he's got a tremendous amount of guilt about being German, about the Nazi party coming out of Germany, about the way gay people were persecuted, about the way Jews were persecuted. And we went to visit him in Germany, did like, a whole tour, not just at his hometown, but of, like, German Christmas markets. My wife and I, after. After we made the movie, and then he took us. I was like, we gotta go see the thing. I wanted to go see the grand airspace where they had landed, did. Where they had the Olympics where Hitler gave his speeches.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I go. The two of us, this, like, giant gay German guy and me, this tiny little Jewish kid, we're gonna stand on this place where some of the greatest hate was espoused, and we're gonna hug each other and take a picture to commemorate this moment. So I. I believe in that. I believe in, like, throwing A concert in a place that used to be a slaughterhouse. It's like, we can bring something better. Better. We can consecrate. We can reconsecrate this land. Did you see Sinners?

[B]

Oh, God, yes.

[A]

So good.

[B]

Wasn't it so good?

[A]

Well, I really enjoyed that.

[B]

No, this was Sinners is great. And I think, like, you know, if it's the same feeling, I had no idea it was a vampire movie when I saw it. So it was like. I remember showing my buddy from dusk to dawn.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And not telling him.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That it's a vampire movie. And somebody turns like, what the. And I was like, oh, I thought this was just like. This was like a racial movie. Like, oh, there's vampires. All right. Oh, the vamp. The white vampires are the music industry and the b. It's really great. But back to this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I want to get you out of here. Dude, I feel like we've. I feel like I've kept you way too long.

[A]

You're gonna have to cut this down. No, quite a bit. Release all of it.

[B]

All of it.

[A]

The Snyder cut.

[B]

Dude, this is even the bathroom break. Right? He just compliments how great the show is.

[A]

That's so funny. If you just left it out, dude, you're just, like, letting out your farts. Just.

[B]

Well, here's what. Here's. Here's what, dude, by the way, my farts don't stink.

[A]

Oh, that's true.

[B]

Do you believe that?

[A]

Lean a little bit closer. See, Roses really smell like.

[B]

Is that crazy? People have no idea who the outcast is.

[A]

Yeah, some people, I'm sure. I've tried to be more graceful in those moments whenever I meet someone who doesn't know something that I take for granted should be self evident. And I. I realized through my own experience that when you don't know something and someone says you don't know that, that it kind of triggers you to not ever want to learn about it 100%. And so I. I've tried really hard. If someone's like, oh, I never heard about that. I'll be like, oh, There was an American band in the early 70s, and there was this lead singer, and he did this kind of stuff. You should listen to this one. And I'll try and, like, say it in a way that's not judgy or condemning, because it's really easy to turn somebody off.

[B]

Very. And it's. And I'll never. Yuck. Somebody's yum. If they. They like something that I might not like. I'll always like oh, that's interesting. Oh, yeah, I love. I love this thing they did, or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But, but it's just because, like, Wayne Federman, you know him, he's. Yeah, Wayne. He's been on the podcast a lot

[A]

of times about the Fountains of Wayne.

[B]

Right? Wasn't that Wayne Fetterman? He's like, you've seen Kirby enthusiasm.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Remember, remember the Wire? He's like the neighbor that wants the wire removed.

[A]

Oh, he's an actor. He's.

[B]

Yeah, he's. He's old comic. He works. He's been on the podcast.

[A]

Just don't clip that. Don't clip that.

[B]

Keep that in there. Show.

[A]

Of course, of course. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wayne.

[B]

Wayne will teach a course. He teaches a course that, like you said, ucla, about standup comedy. And, and until recently, he. People wouldn't like, there'd be students that had no idea who Jon Stewart was. And you're like, how are you not. No, it's just. It's crazy. It's like outcast that headlined Coachella. And, like, the audience, half the audience is like, what? Yeah, it blows my mind Blur when they're like, I'm going to Coachella for the first time this year.

[A]

Don't you remember when Kanye did something with Paul McCartney and people were like, so good. Yeah. He's putting over this old guy was like, all y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

All y' all just, you know, it's tough. I, I, I just find that meeting ignorance with outrage only makes people want to double down on their ignorance.

[B]

But I think Bowie, I think to bring it back to Bowie, it's like, I think when you say Bowie, besides the Google, it says Bowie Knife.

[A]

Right. Everybody.

[B]

If you say Bowie, people know who David Bowie is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you say, I mean, Paul, it's, I mean, I mean, it's. It's mind blowing that somebody wouldn't know who he is. But there's something about how it's a

[A]

very particular young audience.

[B]

Yeah, but you know what I'm saying, I get outcast. I. But it's like, it's like saying, like, maybe people don't know the music of the Doors, but I think if they saw an image of Jim Morrison, they'd be like, oh, I know who that guy is. I've seen that.

[A]

Oh, that's interesting the way that he visually became iconic as, like, a, Like a totem for this type of behavior, this type of lifestyle.

[B]

Even the, like, the what. When you did the, the historical roast, which, by the way, me and Jeff went to Monday, I Took him to Monday Night Raw in Madison Square Garden. Yes. Yeah, it was.

[A]

Are you on the mania?

[B]

No, I'm a poser. I'm a poser. I don't really. I just. I just needed something to do that night.

[A]

That's all right. Going to that show that even if you buy the tickets ironically, you're still going to get the show.

[B]

Oh, but I have the. Because I went. Jelly took me. When he was in Paris, and he's

[A]

done spots with them, hasn't he?

[B]

He's been wrestling, so. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So we went there and I got. I was sitting right. Me and him were sitting right behind the camera. Camera guy. And I got so much attention from people being like, dude, you love wrestling. Wearing a Faith no More shirt. And I'm like. Broke my wrist. And I'm like, yeah. And so when. When they were playing the Garden this week, I just had nothing to do. And I was like, are you coming into town? He's like, no, but he's like, if you want a ticket. And I knew where the seats were going to be. And so then I hit up Jeff because he's been in town, too, promoting his special.

[A]

Yeah. And it was great.

[B]

It was. We had so much fun.

[A]

We were. Jeff and I are very close friends.

[B]

Oh, Jeff's the man. Yeah, Jeff's the man. But it was also really funny. Like, he. He would, like. Because, you know, I'm so, like, trying to pull my. You know, it's like body slam right in front of you. And like, it's like, dude, I'll show you these videos because it's just there be like. It'd be like Roman Reigns here. And then suddenly I just go, like, it was the best, dude.

[A]

And then.

[B]

And Lin, man, I'm sitting next to the. Lin Manuel Miranda.

[A]

Yes. He loves wrestling.

[B]

Like, good to see. See you again. I'm like, I've never been here, like. But yeah, dude.

[A]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

It's. It's amazing. And I. And I think it's the same thing where it's just like, you can't not get caught up in it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can't not.

[A]

And it's.

[B]

It is in being in Paris and seeing that show was so much fun that. That the American audience still great. Not European.

[A]

Really. Dude.

[B]

Dude, that was. They just had all these expressions and they were. Because they don't get it the way that we get it. We take everything for granted.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

All right, let me do this comparison.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Out of here, dude. I feel like. I feel like we're about to. He's gonna come back to life if we keep going any further. All right, where was I? All right, here we go. Berlin Experiment. Elder art Oracle. You, child actor, teen cult film guy, Deadpan. Supporting assassin, sitcom weirdo franchise, voice actor and animation in person. Did I say that right? Imperson, impressor, whatever that word is. I don't know what that is.

[A]

Impresario.

[B]

Yeah. Thank you. Jesus Christ. Cut that out. Leave that in there. Clip that, clip that. Neither career is built on one fixed lane, but careers get stronger once they stop apologizing for their range. Yeah. And I feel like the chameleonism of Bowie is. Is very similar to you. Where the pre breakthrough with Bowie, you know, at the beginning is you're the child actor portion of your life. This hunky dory, I would feel, is more of your. Your, like, you know, is your Buffy, your. Your Austin Powers, where it's like you've broken away from being the child actor and now you're being, you know. Yeah.

[A]

That was a crazy year. That was the year that everything happened, because everything happened at once. I got made a series regular on Buffy. Austin Powers came out on dvd, and I made paid Can't Hardly Wait. And so all of those things. Dude, yeah, everything happened in that same year. And all of a sudden, people knew my name. And so I had a very different. It was because it was like a very delayed celebrity, Right. I had been working successfully for long enough to make money, and I hadn't it up enough that I wasn't bankrupt. And then all of a sudden, I got famous. That doesn't automatically mean that you're rich. It just means that everybody recognizes you wherever you go. So from that position, I was able to curate my external Persona pretty carefully, pretty intentionally. I feel like with the invent of social media, everyone's become a little more relaxed about that level of curation. You gotta be somebody like Donald Glover, who's gonna put the artistic emphasis on every post.

[B]

But you get that at the end. Then you get to be. You get to be Ziggy when you get Robot Shift Chicken. And you get to be in total control of now this thing that is yours and your voice and, well, collectively.

[A]

Like, it's a lot of people, but it's.

[B]

But you're. But it's this. It started with you, right? And.

[A]

Yeah, me and my. Me and Matt Sanrise.

[B]

Yeah. So that's what I'm saying is, like, that's where he became Ziggy.

[A]

It definitely was the first opportunity for me to drive most of the intent behind it. You know what I mean? Like, if people had questions about it,

[B]

what are we doing?

[A]

I'd be like, we're doing this. This.

[B]

Does it stay exciting? The. The. The arc as it keeps going, or is it like.

[A]

I love making stuff. I'm addicted to the making stuff. I think the thing that I'm most addicted to is the location movie making, because you. You do this very specific thing where you get a bunch of people together and you put on a show, and that's the thing I love the most. Like, I. I learned that I loved acting at summer camp before I was even old enough to be a camper. I had the teenage kids invite me to be a part of their talent. Talent show. And we read lines, did improv. We basically bookended all of the. The talent show. But I was like, I. I do this. I think I. I think I like this. And then I found out that it was, like, a real job.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I. I, like, begged to get on stage when I was 6 years old at another camp, and we did. We got to put on the show, spend the whole weeks rehearsing the makeup, the lights, built the set sets, and then the things. Everybody gets in their seats, the curtains open, and you're doing it. No stopping it. Now it's happening, and then it's over. Sing the song, Curtain call. Everybody, like, takes the bow, their plot. And I was like, this. This is what I do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You get that juice, and you're like, I just knew. And it wasn't about the applause. It was, like, somehow the whole process. So that's the thing I love the most, is, like, going on location. We got this script, guys. Doesn't matter what happens 30 days from now. Everything that happens between now and 30 days from now is we're making this movie. You know what I mean? Yeah. So getting in with other actors, getting in that place with everybody that's come there on purpose, even if it's just a paycheck, everybody's there on purpose.

[B]

But do you have that? Do you have that? There was a. Did you watch the peewee documentary on.

[A]

I haven't watched it yet.

[B]

Oh, my God. If you want to cry. I mean, because I'm obsessed with pv, obviously.

[A]

Huge influence I love so much.

[B]

Yeah. So. But he has this thing where he said he knew when he was doing a scene that he could just walk in playing a waiter, and one little look could take all the attention from everything going on. And it could be craziness, but his look would steal just everything that's steel. But he knew how to grab.

[A]

That was his power.

[B]

That was his power.

[A]

That was his powers. You focused on him and he would give you something to pay attention to.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And give you a reason to be paying attention.

[B]

And you've had that. You've had so many of those moments because you have to have something like that. If you've been able to have a career like that, and especially to be a child actor where you're. You're auditioning like cattle into. I mean, because there must have been ones.

[A]

We did everything. I did everything to stand out. And it only convinced me that if you're right, you're right. Like, there's sometimes where it doesn't matter how good you are as an actor. They're just not. You're not with the. Getting behind the camera really helped me with that. Just the idea that as an actor, it's. That you could be incredible. You could be so good in this role, and I'm just not going to believe you. Because the director needs somebody who looks like this when the audience looks at them. Yeah. The audience sees them for a first time. The director's job is to give the audience something belief believable. And it doesn't matter how good your performance is if you can't be believed next to this person doing this. So I. I got a little bit of, like, less urgency about it. Like, I'll take a swing for something and if the director doesn't think it's me, what am I gonna do?

[B]

Was it okay? I give so many questions. I keep wanting to ask you because you keep saying something so interesting, but it's like, was there. What was the biggest swing in an audition that just was like, oh, what a me does.

[A]

And I never. I never regret it. I tried out for X2. I wanted to play Nightcrawler. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. And I. I called the old makeup person because I was like so much of this character. It's like this blue face with yellow contacts. Like, I get. How good is my German accent? That's what we're talking about. Yeah. So I told the. The casting agent, I'm like, I'm gonna put this makeup on. And I got the. One of the. The makeup guys from Buffy, Tom McIntosh. We were over at Fox. Put some makeup on on me. I do all the scenes. I'm like to sing my German doing the. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't get it. Alan Cumming got it. But no regrets. You know what I mean? I wasn't. I wasn't Sean Young showing up in the Catwoman suit. Tim Burton, Take a meeting with me. I got an audition, and I was like, well, I'm going to swing as hard as I can.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sometimes you have to take a big swing for anybody to notice. I did that in commercials all the time. You used to, like, get there. There's a sign in sheet. You fill out all the shit. You can write whatever you. You want. It's not a test. It's not illegal documents. I'm just like, crazy, crazy on this. And then they take a Polaroid of you, and then they give you the Polaroid. They staple it. So I knew a bit about photography. While the Polaroid was warming up, I'd take, like, the back of a ballpoint and I would just draw crazy lines. And then I'd hold it on a lamp and like, mate, bright neon all around my face. So when they're flipping through every one of those, they're like, what that. What is this? This. You know what I mean? Anything you can do to stand out. Like, if you're. Everybody shows up in a blue jeans and a T shirt. I'm gonna wear the T shirt that's got, like, a big stain.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because commercial just.

[B]

There's such, like, everybody. You walk into a room and everybody looks like you. So it's like, how the.

[A]

Do you stick out My. The way I look. The. The things that I was right for, I was just right for. And I started leaning into just looking crazy when I went in there, because I was like a teenage reading for teenage. And they wanted someone that your parents were like, I don't know if you should hang out with that kid or some kid that looked like they were trouble, saying, that's why I drink this juice. I find this juice really gives me the energy I need to run from the cops all day. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's so stupid, but that was the angle that I played.

[B]

I mean, any audition that I've ever gotten, like, either callbacks or anything, is where I was like, I did something so different than it was on the script. And they're like, oh, oh, yeah.

[A]

Which isn't hard to imagine that if you're watching people deliver. There's only so many ways to read a scene that's written to tell a particular story. Then it just comes down to who's got it right and looks right.

[B]

Same thing with Bowie. Any way to sing a song, it's the way he does it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Write a song. All right, let's get you out of here. Dude, I feel like we've. I feel like we've. We've hit the full gambit on this.

[A]

This.

[B]

Dude, this was great. Please come back. By the way, I'm sorry if it went too long, but Godamn, it's just

[A]

like, you what El talking about what's in that? The top. I'm so curious about where you. There's so many people that you could get to talk about those records. You know what I mean?

[B]

Oh, we're aiming. We're aiming big, Seth.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, come on.

[B]

We're like, so Emily, the booker. Code red. Emily, we love you. She. I have, like, a list of the people that I want, and then she'll always, like, shoot. We always shoot for as high as we can go for certain things. Especially when you're getting to like. I mean, we're. Dude, we're getting to the final because we're kind of relaunching the final hundred where it's like, listen, I knew 500 was intimidating. These are a hundred episodes. This is like literally 50. What is it, 52 weeks? No, 104 weeks. Come with us on this journey. These are the hundred greatest albums ever made. And I. My goal is to do Every. The bottom 50 all in person. So I'll fly out to wherever it is. We'll get a studio.

[A]

Would you do, like, an audience for those?

[B]

Probably if I do, like, if I top 10.

[A]

Yeah, because you could do like a traveling live show.

[B]

I'm trying to get, like, for the Beatles. I mean, we're. I mean, I. Who knows we're gonna get Ringo or Paul, but it's like, would you want

[A]

them to talk about it?

[B]

Oh, my God, dude. I've had like.

[A]

Wouldn't it be better to have, like, Paul McCarty talk about Clapton? You know what I mean? If you get McCartney on, get him to talk about Clapton. Captain.

[B]

Sure you're not wrong. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Getting them to talk about their own thing would almost be.

[B]

You'd be surprised how many people we've had that have done the record. We had Billy Gibbons from ZZ Top come on to do ZZ Top. I've had.

[A]

What was that conversation like?

[B]

It's awesome, dude. It was actually the dopest at the end. I've talked about this a million times. But at the end of it, I go. I go, hey, Billy, this was so amazing. He goes, oh, man, that was a gas. And I was like, that's the coolest anybody's ever said ever, dude. But he was just great. And it's like. It's the same thing with.

[A]

With.

[B]

With like as long as. Because I get nervous because you're like, oh my God, like they know the record. I don't want to this up is just doing it anything right. It's like you have to. You have to do this delicate dance of like, make sure I don't the facts up. Make sure I don't critique the album too much or whatever. Because songs and artists are. Are different than anything else, man. Like. Like the song, you know, Life on Mars could have been played the first time you touched a titty or like. You know what I mean? So it's like it could be like your. Your dad's favorite song and all that. You have to be very, very delicate.

[A]

That's. I really enjoyed with Bowie. Just to sort of make your point, I guess. The way like I like I. I read about Bully Brothers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The way he sort of every 10 years had a completely different perspective on what the song was, man. To the point where he was so distant from it. He's like, I can't even relate to the person that was that wrote that song.

[B]

I love it because. And that's what I wrote. It was like. This is why ending the album with that song is so genius. Because after all the wit and the hooks and the cultural name checking, Bowie leaves you in a fog bank. Like, he's like. He's almost saying you can enjoy the songs, but you do not get to fully solve. Solve me. And that's why I love. And I think that goes against. Goes with what you're saying. It's just like it's. It's just. It really. It does it. Does it feel like it's. It's saying a lot. And then you're like, oh, is it.

[A]

It's like. It's not an apology. It's a kind of admission. It's a bit of a romanticizing how you got through to me. At least that's the way I always took that. It feels like fight club club. You know what I mean? The kind of sensationalizing. Not just. Not. Not of nihilism, but of rebellion itself. Of. Of what is good Trouble, what is positive mischief. And that song. It feels like they flirted pretty close to the edges of what's acceptable.

[B]

I mean, it.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's a perfect way to end this record. And I mean, especially with where he's about to go. It's just. It's such a. Because as I'm like scrolling down to all this stuff that I have it's just like, my God. And then, and. And then even like, you know, the stuff he did with Nile Rogers, it's just, he's constantly. He's. What I look at when I think of what an artist should be is why I love Miles Davis, why I love Radiohead, why I love the Beatles, and why there's so many bands that we do love when they have that first record, but it's like they just keep.

[A]

Not like this copy paste.

[B]

Copy paste. And it's like. No, it's like you're. You start here and you end up all the way over there. And it's like to be able to think that if you listen to Space Oddity, you'd be listening to like Modern Love by the same guy. It's like. It doesn't. It's just. Yeah, it's amazing. All right, let's do the final questions. Let's get you out of here, dude, like I said, come back. We have 100 and whatever. Many episodes left.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Favorite song on this record.

[A]

It's Life on Mars. It just hit me. It always did, like, it really felt like a kind of siren song. And the. The whole album, it feels like even where it's placed, it's placed to like tell you don't believe everything that you see. You know what I mean? Yeah. Don't trust everything that you hear.

[B]

You got. You have to convince me on Life of Mars, dude. You should hear me playing on piano, dude. I.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

That. Is there a song you skip over or is this a no skip record?

[A]

I like when I listen to a record all the way. I'll listen to it all the way. But it's. I mean, it's the stuff like Quick Santa and Bob Dylan song that I'm not as interested in. Or even like the eight word poetry poem. I. I hear like, I appreciate the eight line poem. I appreciate them and I don't dislike those songs, but they're not what drew me to this record.

[B]

I is. Is it. What's the one that's like come with me and you will believe

[A]

that's kooks.

[B]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

That's.

[B]

I don't. I don't. Me and my buddy used to have this thing take a chance with a couple of yes. Which I. I only hear the. This song that me and my buddy used to sing. It's like, come with me and you'll believe P. Tell you're the one. I don't know where that came from.

[A]

That feels like puffing stuff.

[B]

It's very.

[A]

That feels like old Bugaloos, but that's.

[B]

I think that's when we. We sang that song. We must have heard that. That's what I think of. I'm not saying I skip over it.

[A]

No, no. But I hear you. Yeah. Rules.

[B]

It's not my favorite on the record. I'm sorry.

[A]

People either.

[B]

Can you. To this record. Can you put it on?

[A]

You know, if. Fast Times at Ridgemont Highest to be believed. No, but I think you can. Like, if you've got the right partner, you can to anything. But.

[B]

No, but there's. But there's two. I think. I think melodically. Melodically, it's.

[A]

It doesn't have the kind of driving beats that typically encourage sexuality, but I

[B]

also think Bowie's lyrics are just a little too cerebral to. To. To like. Like, it's all sex is about being present. And I think, like, if you're listening to, like, Massive Attack, which is what I do, or like, bored his head, that's, like, sexy. You know, it's about pain or whatever. Blah, blah, blah, blah. With. With Bowie, it's just. It's too much going on, you know, lyrically makes sense. You got it. You're gonna be all over the place. I don't know. I mean, not every song is sure Changes. That shouldn't be the one that you're like.

[A]

Yeah, you know, that's a tough syncopation to kind of Vision. Yeah.

[B]

All right.

[A]

What would be.

[B]

What would be your elevator pitch to get someone to listen to this record that's never heard it? Like, how do you sum this record up?

[A]

This was a. A critical moment for one of our world's most amazing and indelible artists. And the songs that exist in this collection all have something to say that you haven't heard. Heard in this way.

[B]

Yeah, I wrote. Because basically what you said is perfect. It's kind of just going off of that. I said, this is one of those records that you should hear if you've ever felt too weird for the room, too smart for the conversation, too emotional to play it cool, or too restless to stay one person for very long. This is an album that isn't just a bunch of great songs. This is somebody inventing himself in real time. And then, like I said earlier, that's

[A]

such a cool summary.

[B]

Yeah, it's just I think that, like, the more I learn about him, it's the more I. I fall deeper and deeper in love with. With who he is. And. And, dude, I learned so much about you today. And everybody, like, dude, everybody was like, oh, dude, Seth rules. And you lived up to that. Oh. One person said, you're Holocaust denier, but

[A]

besides that, everybody else, there's not enough proof. Come on, dude. Yeah, look, I've sifted through those buckets of gold rings I get. These were apparently wedding bands.

[B]

What do you have anything going on you want to promote or like, just

[A]

a. Yeah, I got to make a movie last year called the Highest Stakes that's coming out on Paramount, and it's really, really fun. It's one. It was one of those things I, I have been so focused on producing that I haven't done a lot of on camera stuff. And this was exactly the kind of thing that I wanted to do. It was a great cast, a fantastic director, an awesome crew. Crew. We were all in Bulgaria shooting what is ostensibly a thriller. Like, this is a psychological thriller. That's the best way.

[B]

Is that fun to play? Is that like.

[A]

Yeah, this is a. This is a guy with a lot of unanswered questions. And it's fun because I got to use the things that people typically think about me to my advantage to inveigle the character that I played. Dude. Yeah, it's this month.

[B]

It's April.

[A]

Yeah, April 14th, I think.

[B]

Well, guess what? Years come, your episode comes out a week from Wednesday. So we'll promote the out of it.

[A]

Thanks, man.

[B]

Go see it. Follow him on social. Guys, keep supporting the podcast. I can't thank you enough for coming on, man. This was so much fun.

[A]

Really fun.

[B]

And dude, get me, get me some of your famous people friends that you think that would dig being on this.

[A]

I, I, you both. Elijah and Jack are really good picks because they both love music so much. And then compliment, I swear, compliment would be a great pictures because he knows so much about music and he loves music.

[B]

We've talked about having him on and then I forget what happened, but I think he was booked or something and. Because I have the connection between him and Soder. But, but my booker, like, loves him too. But I know Elijah. I'm pretty sure I was like, I said the Radiohead thing because I was trying to find somebody for the bends.

[A]

He's just very, very busy is the tough part. Like, he's very, very busy. He's getting, you know, he works all the time. All right. Yeah.

[B]

You're busy too, Dude, I'm busy.

[A]

That's true. I got a baby so sitter, though.

[B]

Do I you for it?

[A]

Not on school.

[B]

Are you sure?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It's a fixed deal.

[B]

Do you Want to get, like, pizza you can send home or something?

[A]

No, but that's very sweet of you. I wasn't really gonna do it. Oh, that's cool. You just took. I'm gonna get the check.

[B]

No, no, no, dude.

[A]

I'll post it. I just want to.

[B]

I'll post.

[A]

Oh, you got it. Okay. I just want to make sure you got it.

[B]

Uber Eats.

[A]

I got.

[B]

I got points on Uber Eats. Thank you for coming on.

[A]

Much love.

[B]

Pleasure ruled.

[A]

Right on.

[B]

What did I tell you? What did I tell you? The one and only Seth Green. Go to seth green.com and on Instagram at Seth Green. Thank you for joining us, buddy. And please get me all those guests that we talked about. It could help. All his current projects are on his official website.

[A]

Rock and roll.

[B]

All right, now. Now we just listened to hunky Dory from 1971 by David Bowie for our new music page this week. Brought to you in part by Distrokid, is a track called Crusher by Ista. You can find links to the music on our website, the500podcast.com. And if you are in a band, we want to play your song, so send it to us. If you're influenced by one of these albums, send us your song. We will play it. Tell us the album and artists that influenced you in the subject line. We will make it happen. Send your songs to 500podcastsmail.com next week. Ooh, we're going to a party. Let's bring it on home because a change is gonna come with number 107, Sam Cooke, Portrait of a Legend, 1951-1964. It's about two hours long. The album, man, it's good. It's the retrospective of probably one of the best voices in the history of music. Sam Cooke died way too young. And if you really want to do a skadoodle, go back back and listen to the live record, Sam Cook live at the Harlem Square Club that me and the guest are going to talk about. But we did that with Neil DeGrasse Tyson early on, early on, in the beginning of 20. I think it was right at the end of 2019. So pre pandemic. But you want to hear a difference between fucking Sam recorded versus Sam live? Mind blowing. So listen to both those records and tune in next week. It's going to be rad skadoodle.

[A]

Don't ask me why.

[B]

Just. Just tell me you can get it done. Yeah, I. Beno, you know, works.

[A]

I love Beno.

[B]

Oh, and another thing. Don't ever fall in love

[A]

sp I can do.

[B]

Sam. The age is dark Laid down in the casket Vultures, kings and thieves Pisces in the basket Melt down the ice. Automatic Love is the new order Love is the fear crusher Love is. The fear crusher crush.

[A]

So what brings you closer? As a matter of fact, we're all

[B]

reduced to the same equation we can count on that Rounded like nature who understands? Don't debate and embrace it we spin with the plan Coming in hot feels like electric shock Love is dark New order Love is fear pressure Love is Love is the love fear Love is love Love is Love.

[A]

Is the tr.

[B]

Crush. The 500 keeping it fleecy for the fleece nation on the 500 the 500.

[A]

This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one

[B]

less thing on your list.

[A]

Not one more. With Carvana, it is just go to Carvana.com Enter your license plate or VIN and get a real offer. Down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises. Just an experience you can trust. Like your offer. Accept it, Schedule pickup and we'll come to you with a check in hand. Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit Carvana.com to sell your car today. Pick up these May apply Next chapter Podcast.