113 - Joni Mitchell - Court and Spark - Gina Gershon

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers

Episode 113: Joni Mitchell – Court and Spark
Guest: Gina Gershon
Date: April 8, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, comedian and host Josh Adam Meyers is joined by the multi-talented actress, musician, and author Gina Gershon to dive into Joni Mitchell’s seminal 1974 album Court and Spark, which sits at number 113 on Rolling Stone’s list of the 500 Greatest Albums. The discussion weaves between Joni’s artistry, Gershon’s new memoir Alpha: How I Survived the Valley and Learned to Love My Boobs, her iconic film career, and the challenges and rewards of defying labels in creative industries. Expect candid humor, musical insights, tales from the Hollywood trenches, and plenty of love for Joni Mitchell.

---

Key Discussion Points

1. Opening and Context [03:17]

• Josh sets the stage: First time discussing Joni Mitchell on the pod. Shares excitement for reaching the final 100 episodes, pushes for audience support, and introduces Gershon’s new book (Alpha: How I Survived the Valley and Learned to Love My Boobs).
• Song “Help Me” from Court and Spark plays, setting the thematic tone.

---

2. Gina Gershon’s Life as “Alpha Pussy” and Her Memoir [12:55–16:47]

• The term “Alpha Pussy”:
  • Gina explains it’s about being the top cat, having confidence, self-sovereignty, and not letting others make you feel small. Inspired by playing dominance games with her (male, feral) cats.
  • Quote:

    "At some point they go and they roll over on their back. Therefore making me the alpha pussy. I love it, right? So, like, I’m in charge." (13:14)

• Navigating Hollywood:
  • Gershon recounts being sexualized early in her career and how she channeled that into reclaiming her power using her now-famous “alpha” technique.
• Humorous anecdotes about her relationships with directors, peers, and the creative act of coming-of-age in a male-dominated world.
• Example of handling the infamous Showgirls reception and how her perspective on power evolved.

---

3. Hollywood Tales: Roasts, Showgirls, and Curb Your Enthusiasm [17:58–23:58]

• On being roasted:
  • Gina recalls being unprepared for the Dennis Leary roast, taking it too earnestly, drinking tequila, and ultimately winning over Jeff Garlin (which led to her Curb Your Enthusiasm role).
• Role on Curb:
  • Playing a Hasidic character drawing on her own real-life acquaintances (“my waxer”).
  • The show’s improvisational format:

    "How about no script?" (22:18)

• Jewish identity:
  • Both Josh and Gina bond over their somewhat “bad Jew” status and joke about Passover traditions.

---

4. Growing Up, Music, and Meeting Icons [24:31–35:55]

• Gina’s family in the music business:
  • Shares stories about nearly working with Prince (declined his offer), connections with the Scissor Sisters, and awkward recording sessions with Paul Simon.
• On the music world’s culture:
  • Musicians described as “pure” and collaborative compared to actors.
  • “You can get the greatest musicians because musicians just—they just want to play... there’s a purity to them, I think.” (74:00)

---

5. Joni Mitchell, Court and Spark, and Musical Impact [37:05–47:04]

• Joni as an influence:
  • Gina links her own multi-faceted career to Joni’s refusal to be pinned down to one genre.

    "I like to be able to freely do whatever it is I want to do, and I think she does that." (67:41)

• First exposure to Mitchell:
  • Via her older siblings—Cream, Led Zeppelin, and the Talking Heads.
  • “Help Me” as a gateway; “Twisted” stood out in high school:

    "It's not really pop and it's not really jazz. It was a mixture." (46:00)

• Family connection:
  • Her uncle Jack worked with legendary jazz musicians who also played on Court and Spark (notably Tom Scott).

---

6. Showgirls, Bound, and Surviving the Valley [48:37–64:33]

• Shifting the conversation from Joni’s themes to Gina’s career:
  • The book’s “alpha” ethos aligned with Joni’s depictions of women negotiating power without losing themselves.
  • How Showgirls went from career risk to cult classic, and why Bound was a pivotal follow-up.
  • Gina’s insight:

    “I was never really trashed, by the way... But I did the best job I could as an actress because that was my job. And I felt pretty solid.” (54:43)

• On Bound's impact:
  • Groundbreaking depiction of women’s sexuality—still resonates with fans coming out or seeking representation.

---

7. Musical Deep Dives and Favorite Tracks [65:51–89:59]

• Court and Spark’s musicianship & guest performers:
  • Stacked with all-star collaborators—Tom Scott, Larry Carlton, Graham Nash, David Crosby, Cheech & Chong (on “Twisted”), and more.
• Favorite song picks (Rapid Fire Q&A):
  • Gina's faves: “People’s Parties,” “Freeman in Paris,” “Twisted” (ultimately picks “Twisted”) [85:11]
  • Josh’s pick: “Freeman in Paris”
• Least favorite / “skip” tracks:
  • Gina debates between “Trouble Child,” “This Train,” or “Car on the Hill.”
  • Consensus: the album is nearly flawless.
• Can you have sex to this record? [89:08]
  • Gina: "You can to everything. But, like, should you? ...I think Joni Mitchell’s more about like making breakfast the next day together.”
  • Josh: “It’s wholesome sex. ...You hold each other when it’s done and let the rest of the album play.”

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On not feeling boxed in, like Joni:

  "They never... It’s almost this thing: is she doing jazz, is she doing singer-songwriting, is she doing blues? ... I don’t like having those labels." (67:41)

• Regarding “Twisted”:

  “I just loved the song. I was at that age of 14 or 15. I just thought it was just a fun, fun song.” (85:38)

• On surviving Showgirls:

  “I wasn’t surprised. I kept—when I was finishing that—I’m like, oh my God, what the fuck is this?” (54:48)

• On sexiness of Joni Mitchell music:

  “I think Joni Mitchell’s more about making breakfast the next day together.” (90:34)

• On Blue vs. Court and Spark:

  “Honestly. Blue is—I probably like even more than Court and Spark, to be honest.” (91:23)

• On Joni’s uniqueness:

  "There’s no one else like her. And that’s what I love so much about her, too.” (92:01)

---

Meaningful Tangents & Cultural Insights

• Musician vs. actor mentality [74:11]:
  Musicians “know who they are” and are eager to collaborate; actors (and Hollywood), by contrast, involve lots of gatekeeping and posturing.
• Joni’s genius confirmed by her peers:
  Stories about David Crosby, Graham Nash, and even Bob Dylan’s complicated response to hearing her new music.
• Gina's Brushes with Music Legends:
  • Turned down Prince’s movie proposal.
  • Played jaw harp on Scissor Sisters and Rufus Wainwright albums.
  • Recording sessions with Herbie Hancock and Paul Simon (“He seemed mean. He’s kind of a dick.” [29:32])
• On Bound's Cultural Legacy:
  • Gina notes: “It’s one of the... still women come up to me: ‘Thank you so much. You helped me come out.’” (63:18)
  • Josh: “Women hadn’t seen themselves represented in that way—as the hero in a film.”

---

Joni Mitchell – Court and Spark: Album Breakdown

• Described as: The record where heartbreak got better musicians, better taste, and a jazzy, glamorous, yet catchy sheen.
• Legacy: “Help Me” was Joni’s biggest hit; Court and Spark marked her commercial peak and forayed into fuller jazz-pop orchestration.
• Track highlights:
  • “Help Me” — Universal hooks, panic-attack lyrics, breezy melodies.
  • “Free Man in Paris” — Written about David Geffen; an ode to personal freedom.
  • “Twisted” — Jazz standard, included as a fun closer.
  • “People’s Parties” — Suburban melancholy and social anxiety encapsulated.
• Collaborators: Tom Scott, Larry Carlton, members of the LA Express, Jose Feliciano, Cheech & Chong, David Crosby, Graham Nash.

---

Favorite Burger (Bonus Segment) [82:00]

• Gina in LA: The Golden Bull.
• Josh’s pick: For the Win (Franklin near the 101).
• NYC: Odeon, Houseman’s, Hachevel; Josh loves the Gramercy Tavern burger.

---

Key Timestamps

• 03:17: Josh sets the theme, introduces album and guest.
• 12:55: Gershon introduces “Alpha Pussy”, power, and perspective.
• 17:58: Hollywood stories: roasts, Showgirls, Curb.
• 24:31: Music family, Paul Simon, Prince anecdotes.
• 37:05: Joni Mitchell’s influence, comparisons to Gershon’s career.
• 48:37: Bound, Showgirls, “owning the fallout”, surviving Hollywood.
• 65:51: Gina’s music world experience, Joni’s all-star collaborators.
• 85:05: Rapid fire: favorite track, skip track, can you have sex to this album?
• 91:05: Elevator pitch for Court and Spark and Joni’s legacy.

---

Final Recommendation / Elevator Pitch

Gina Gershon:

“Don't be an idiot. You gotta know this music. If you like music, you need to listen To Joni Mitchell, Blue, Court and Spark... She just changed things too, you know, and the freedom she has and the brilliance she has.” [91:09]

Josh Adam Meyers:

“If you've ever fallen in love with the wrong person, stayed too long at the wrong party, confused attention with love, or thought, ‘I can handle this’ and absolutely could not, this album would hit you like a velvet hammer... This is a pour a drink, text someone you shouldn’t, and then realize you made three emotional mistakes by track four album.” [92:07]

---

Closing Notes

• Gina Gershon’s memoir Alpha: How I Survived the Valley and Learned to Love My Boobs is available now (print and audio).
• Joni Mitchell’s Court and Spark is celebrated as both a commercial and creative force—bridging folk, jazz, and pop.
• Next episode: The Mamas & The Papas, If You Can Believe Your Eyes and Ears.

For full tracklists, links, and more, visit the500podcast.com.

---

Transcript

[Josh Adam Myers]

NextChapter podcasts.

[Podcast Sponsor/Announcer]

When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof like Skims or Allbirds, sure you think about a great product, a cool brand and great marketing. But an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business making, selling and for shoppers buying. Simple for millions of businesses. That business is Shopify. It's home of Shop Pay the number one check checkout in the world. You can use it to boost conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going through. To checkout, upgrade your business and get the same checkout Allbirds uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com income all lowercase go to shopify.com income to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com income

[Josh Adam Myers]

hey fleece army, we need your help to make the 500 even better by telling us a bit more about yourself. Go to www.surveymonkey.com R3TWX8YD for a quick listener survey. It only takes a few minutes and directly supports our team. To show our appreciation, we're giving away two 50 gift cards to lucky participants every single month. So head to www.surveymonkey.com Rs and RA/3 the number T as in Tony, W as in woman, X as in Xerox and 8 as the number y as in yellow, D as in Dog. I'm saying this, we're gonna put the link on our website if you can't see that, that was a lot. But this is your chance to win. It helps our show. We really appreciate it. We want to know more about you because you know so much about me. So yeah dude, do it. Www.surveymonkey.com R3TWX8Y D that's a mouthful but it's there.

[Podcast Outro/Intro Voice]

The 500 the 500 JM been walking us down through that 2012 edition so it ain't nothing to you. Hundreds want to go and in need of a friend the king of peace for angelo Talking the 500 until the end Talking the 500 until the end with my man JM on the 500 Talking the 500 until the end Help

[Gina Gershon]

me I think I'm falling in love

[Song Vocalist]

with you Are you gonna let me go there by my Such a lonely

[Gina Gershon]

thing to do Both of us flirting around Flirting and flirting hurting oh Lord

[Josh Adam Myers]

I'm balling I can't hit that note I don't feel well Everybody but God damn that is Joni Mitchell. It's from her 1974 record, Court and Spark. Our first time with Joanie on the pod. And maybe I skipped ahead and listened to Blue, but God damn, dude. 113 out of 500. That's what this is. And I am Josh Adam Myers, and this is the 500. I'm the only podcast, I think, where a comedian's going through. Rolling Stone magazines listed the 500 greatest albums we're getting. Dude, we're so close, man. So now we got 13 weeks. If you listen to the last episode, I'm gonna talk about this until we've hit the bottom 100. We are relaunching to make the last hundred episodes even more special. We have a great audience. I love each and every one of you in the fleece army. I. I should shout out more. Claire, I don't think I shouted you out last week. I love you. I love all of you, man. And I really want this to get even bigger. We're doing great, but I really want this to be bigger. This is. I'm really proud of what we're making. And people thought we were going to quit. We toughed it out. Thank God for fucking Senator Al Franken, dude. And then that fat guy listening to the. He was listening. I remember me and Jeremiah, or J.T. as they call him. We were going to talk because I was thinking about quitting after Al Franken said, don't. And then I was out front because I was like, let me go to get something to eat. It's before I cooked lunch, and I'm going to get a rap. And this guy looks at me, goes, oh, my God. He goes, dude, I'm listening to your Mike Love. John Stamos episode of the Beach Boys. Isn't that crazy? We had Mike Love and John Stamos at the same time. How are we not getting trillions of downloads a week? You know why? I think it's because the 500 sounds scary. Being that 500 episodes is a lot. So we're breaking it down. We're gonna, of course, keep going. You know, we got 13 more weeks, but the final hundred. We're not renaming the show, but the idea is, I want you to tell Everybody, get ready. Thirteen weeks from now, the final 100 episodes. The greatest hundred albums ever recorded to mankind.

[Gina Gershon]

History.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Did that make sense? It sounded good coming out, but as I said, it sounded like more like a queef. Tell everybody however you can help us promote. And we're doing mad favors. Burr's helping. John apatow, Roy Wood, Jr. Theo. I don't even know if Theo's gonna help, but My cholesterol is 290, so I can use that as, like, pressure. I can go, listen, I got butter, blood, and I can't eat eggs anymore. And I love them. Poached. I was eating six poached eggs a day. Is that a lot? Well, according to my doctor, my mom, and every person I bring our red it is. So let's make the final episodes count. And we need your help. So whatever you could do. Go online, promote Instagram stories, show us how you're listening to the podcast, share it, tag us, tag the 500 podcast and. And tell your friends, because it's gonna be great, man. And me and Emily are really working hard to get the best guests. And I mean, God damn, can we just say it? We have knocked this out of the park recently. I'll get to the story. I'm not even gonna tell us the story. Story of the guest. We talk about it on the pod, but it is really funny when we start doing this. Gina is amazing, and I hope she's a friend. I'm gonna see her tomorrow night because I'm going to her book reading. It'll be April 1st. We. I tape these a little early. Patreon. Patreon.com smash. Smash the 500 podcast and subscribe to the YouTube. And we're gonna make it. Like I said, I'm gonna try to do the last 50 episodes all in person because I love them. And. And then Wayne, Hopefully. Hopefully no more Wayne. Even though I love Fetterman, I would do every episode with Fetterman. I am on the road, so I would love for you all to come out this week. I am at Rumors in Winnipeg. I better see you, Mark and rich Wyman. The 7th through the 11th, April 15th through the 18th at Moontower Comedy Festival. I'm doing Coachella. April 19th and the 20th with the Strokes. I'm not really performing, but it just sounds cool to say it. April 23, a big show for me at Caesars Hook Theater in Atlantic City. One night only. Let's sell that out, because I need that payday. And then May 8th, I'm at the Greek Theater in LA with Jelly Roll for the beautifully broken comedy show for Netflix is a joke fest. I am doing a jam that week, too. I don't have the details, but I think it's going to be at the Roxy with or without the festival's help. I'm doing one because I got too many rock stars that I've been meeting that want to play Mic drop Comedy. Plano, Texas. May 15th to the 8th, 15th to the 16th. May 22nd through the 23rd, Jimmy Kimmel's comedy club in Vegas. Get some tattoos. I'm getting Princess symbol on my hand, like, small between my. My thumb and my finger. And then I'm gonna get Amy Winehouse's hair and like a silhouette. I love her. Listen to Love is a losing game. I've been, like, crying and I've been listening to Joni Mitchell. Blue. I jumped ahead. Don't get mad at me. Last but not least, June 18th through the 20th, Sacramento punchline. Go to Josh Adamyers.com or go to punchup Live Backslash. Josh. Adam is because that's me, and I want to see you guys out there. So we are talking today about Joni Mitchell's Court and Spark. I think this is the album where Joni said, what if heartbreak got better taste, better musicians, and a really expensive ashtray. So from 1974, guys, it's a big commercial album of her career, probably the biggest. I think it is this hit number two in the US and gave her that smash song that we opened with. Help Me. This is what proves that someone can make a record that's smart, wounded, jazzy, glamorous, and still catchy. Catchy enough. Not just. It's just to sneak it on the radio. You know what I mean? And we have a perfect guest today, which we didn't know she was coming on this podcast, the Incredible Gina Gershon. My God. I am thrilled to have her on because she is fearless, endlessly versatile from her roles that she's chosen, whether it was Bound, Showgirls, Face off, but. And I mean, she's done everything, film, television, music, stage. And she has a bomb new memoir that I actually read, which is one of the reasons I don't want to ruin it. I don't want to bury the lead. The book's called Alpha How I Survived the Valley and Learned to Love My Boobs, which was the title of my book until I saw that she. She had done it. I'm so excited to go to her reading tomorrow night. This is basically her. She's been out on the road promoting it. This is all her too, man. This is not like a book advances. You'll hear it in the thing. She is, like, getting it like, Michael Jordan sneaker style. She gets a percentage of every book, so please be sure to grab a copy from your local book. So store seller, whatever the way you do it. Amazon, I guess. I don't fucking know. Is that. That where you do it? Probably. Am I promoting the devil. When I say Amazon, I mean we did sign with Spotify there. You see how that went? Find out where she'll be next. Check out gina gershon.com and on all social media at Gina Kershon, please follow me. Gina, I thought we were friends and you fell in love with Lekka Dog. This is a good one. Thank you, Emily, for making this happen. And thank you to Gas Digital Studios for letting us record there, because that's my home away from home. I love it. Check out the video. This is great. Video Raid review. And most Importantly, subscribe to the 500 listen free on all platforms or anywhere you get your podcasts. Follow me at Josh Adam Myers. Follow the podcast at the 500 podcast. Email the [e-mail]. Follow the Facebook group run by Crazy Evan. And for all things 500, go to the website the 500podcast.com. I'm sorry. All this has been long winded, everybody. I'm really excited. I love you guys. And you're gonna love this. Dig into it, because here we go with 113 out of 500 with Joni Mitchell's Court and Spark. All right, so. So to all the fans out there, this is the most interesting beginning that we've ever had on the podcast.

[Gina Gershon]

I'm like, I need coffee. And then.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, no, he's getting you the coffee. But because I get the cardiologist appointment.

[Gina Gershon]

Don't worry, he doesn't have to go. I feel bad. No, he is getting another.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Darling. I. I wish I would have known ahead of time.

[Gina Gershon]

I should have said it because I

[Josh Adam Myers]

was texting Gina, and I text Gina. I was texting Emily, my booker, anyway, to be like, is she okay? Is she not? Because you're running late. I just wanted to make sure you got.

[Gina Gershon]

I was outside. I just couldn't. I didn't know how. Which buzzer to go to.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I told her for you to. I can't tell you because we have a lot of stalkers, but I just wanted to see the number that it was.

[Gina Gershon]

No, but Holly should have told me because I'm like. And then the phone number I was reading trying to call you. Yeah, it was like, def. She. Maybe it was a typo. I can't hear on this.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, turn it up right there, babe.

[Gina Gershon]

Hello? Hello.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Check one, check two. You got it better.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, yeah, there I am.

[Josh Adam Myers]

There you are.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah. No, the. The number she gave me was like, to Joe's plumber or something.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What?

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah, so I kept going. I think you gave me the wrong number. And there's no thing here. I'm just. Yes, so sorry.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's quite right. All right, so to everybody, this interview

[Gina Gershon]

is starting out great. This is.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I'm having more fun right now than I have any interview I've ever done. I'm telling you, this is. I was so nervous because I was like, I just always have held you up as one of being like, before we go any further, obviously, is like, you're in like four or five of some of my favorite movies. I mean, I just rewatched Bound last night with this girl that, like, that was like, staying with me. And I was like, dude, this is like, how are you not like. She's like. She's on her phone.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah. Oh, her.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[Gina Gershon]

But she might go out.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But she. No, obviously, obviously. But what I'm saying is that was such an impactful movie. Showgirls, I Don't Give what Anybody says is one of my favorite movies of all time. You know, I love what you wrote about it in the book, you know, which, by the way, everybody, before we even get to the story of what happened at the beginning, this is Gina Gershon's new book, Alpha How I Survived the Valley and Learned to Love My Boobs. I mean, what a great title, right? Taking the power back. Dude. Strong pussy, dude.

[Gina Gershon]

Makes me laugh.

[Josh Adam Myers]

How long have you been saying the word Alpha pussy?

[Gina Gershon]

Well, alpha pussy.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Because I've never heard it.

[Gina Gershon]

It seems like, no, I made it up.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Thank God. I figured that, right?

[Gina Gershon]

I made it up. And that's why I, you know, I. It starts off, and I hope people read the foreword. That's why I added, like, how I Learned to love or Boobs change my life. And because I really wanted to explain Alpha pussy right from the get go because it's not what people think. Everyone's like, oh, alpha pussy. I said, no. It's literally about when I would train. You know, I always have wild cats, usually boy cats. I have louie now. He's £30. He's huge.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Really?

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Maybe he's got the same cholesterol as me.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah, I think he is having some kidney issues at the moment. But he's like, no, but I've always had male little kittens. I like male cats better, but when they're little, they're, you know, they're fucking wild. And if you don't train them right from the get go, they'll destroy everything.

[Josh Adam Myers]

When you say wild cat, what do you mean, like a part mountain lion type?

[Gina Gershon]

Well, Lily, I think Is part African Savannah. So he actually was. He's the biggest cat I've ever had. But, like, you know, Kaluki and Last Cat. The other book that I did, How I Found My Pussy and Lost My Mind, was all about my In Search of Cleo. So Cleo was. I just mean I get them off the street. They're not like fancy cats. They're a little feral. And, you know, if they have a little spark, they're. You know, you want a cat with a little spark. But the thing is, they'll rip your face up, they'll tear your arms, they'll ruin your furniture. So very early on, every cat, male cats especially.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Sure, yeah, sure.

[Gina Gershon]

Female cats do other different things. But. So anyway, I made up this little game with them. And, like, you know, I would look at them and they would look at me, you know, and they're like, teeny tiny. And you look at them and I'm telling you, if you look away, they, like, fucking attack your head. But if you don't and you keep that eye contact, at some point they go and they roll over on their back. Therefore making me the alpha pussy. I love it, right? So, like, I'm in charge. Like, this is what's happening here. So I remember when I think I did it instinctively. Cause it was kind of like, oh, okay, just don't look away. And like, be in charge, else they're going to attack you. It was like really an animal thing. And then I remember when, you know, I got Showgirls and I was really excited. It was a big break and all that. And then, you know, some douchebags would just be like, oh, I hear you're doing Showgirls. And, like, like peruse my body with their eyes. And I kept feeling really uncomfortable, like. Like, oh, yes, it's a, you know, Dutch film. It's very interesting what he does with the camera. You know, it's like intellectual for intellectuals and everything.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What's his other work? Robocop?

[Gina Gershon]

No, dude, I was in I love

[Josh Adam Myers]

Verhoeven, by the way.

[Gina Gershon]

I was into Spetters. I was into Turkish Delight. I was into his Dutch films, so.

[Josh Adam Myers]

His old shit.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah, yeah, his Turkish films are dope.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But he had to the run of, I think the run of four movies. Five actually, with Basic Instinct, with. With Showgirls, RoboCop, Total Recall and Starship Troopers. I mean, they're all.

[Gina Gershon]

They're interesting. He's a good filmmaker.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Amazing filmmaker. Own style, everything.

[Gina Gershon]

But anyone when these guys would be, like, trying to make me feel weird and I'd back up, you know, going, yeah. And then finally I was like, what am I doing? Like, I'm really excited about this project. And they're making me feel so strange. And so all of a sudden I remembered my cat training technique. And so the next time some guy, I just looked him straight in the eye, I said, oh, yeah, man, I'm kissing girls, kissing guys, dancing naked. It's be so much fun. And I just kept the eye contact, eye contact like this really nice. And I swear to you, he went, oh, yeah, that's cool. And he backed away and he broke eye contact. And so I alpha pussied the shit out of that situation. And so it's more of a movement. It's a state of mind. It's, you know, you have to do it because there's a lot of toxic assholes out there. People want to push you around. It's just a state of mind knowing who you are and speaking your truth and not let people, you know, take over.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And you've always, though, seemed like you've been very confident and even just like, your choices, your acting being just everything about you, it just puts off a very confident, like, powerful force.

[Gina Gershon]

Like, but I had to learn that shit. That's why I have the Valley. The Valley really started taking over once I. Once I realized, oh, this is what this book is going to be about, Then so many weird old memories started showing up. I'm like, why am I thinking about my Schwinn? You know, why am I thinking about these weird things? And then it kind of revealed, like, how you got this way, like, what made you into an alpha pussy, you know, because it really was a good training ground. The Valley was quite, you know, toxic and fucked up when I was growing up.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So you were there, like, is it. Was it Boogie Nights? Was it like that?

[Gina Gershon]

When I see PTA's movies, when I see Boogie Nights, when I see licorice pizza, I'm always like, dude, like, I have the female version of those stories. Really, I have those stories with boobs. Like, you know what I mean? And the thing is, you're also. I was also like, coming of age. All of a sudden I grew boobs. And, you know, I was such a tomboy. And when I say boobs changed my life. Like, people start treating you differently. And then all of a sudden you have these like, predator people coming up to you all the time and weirdos and you're like, so you have to learn how to navigate that shit.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Did you see you were being sexualized probably because you've always. I mean, I always go back to the Dane Cook joke at the roast. Does that make you laugh when you hear that? Like, you're so hot. You're so hot. You made my come come. Do you remember that?

[Gina Gershon]

Wait, was that the roast that Dennis Leary.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That was the one that you were asked.

[Gina Gershon]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. Which is, like, where he. Where Dane Cook says that.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, my God, I must have been so pissed off and drunk at that point.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Really?

[Gina Gershon]

Because. Yeah, that's how I got Curb youb Enthusiasm, dude. It's like, I didn't. Well, it's my bad. I'd never been to a roast before, and I'd never really watched Roast before, except for a couple Frank Sinatras. And I thought, oh, those guys are just so swanky.

[Song Vocalist]

Do.

[Gina Gershon]

And so when I did my, like, song and dance number, which I was really scared about because Dennis kept changing it every fucking, you know, two days. But I was like, it's live. He's like, you have. You have cue cards. I'm like, I'm singing and dancing. I don't want to be looking at cue cards. Like, I can't. I'm not good that way.

[Josh Adam Myers]

One singular sensation.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah. Yeah, Right? And I'm like. And I'm doing it rockworm. He's like, do it Sinatra style. Do it this way. No, do it rock and roll. I'm like, what style am I doing this? He's like, okay, let's go for swingy. I'm like, okay. But as soon as I finished my live number with the dancing cigarette girls and my little cute song, and I was like, oh, Dennis is like a brother to me. You know, like. Cause I was so earnest. And then they said, you gotta do it again. Cause your hat was covering up your face. And I'm like, okay. And after, I take a tequila and start smoking. Cause I was so, like, relieved I got through the fucking song. And I'm like, great, let's do it now before this second shot kicks in. They're like, no, no, no. You have to wait until the end of the show because it's live. I'm like, what? Wait, so you want me to wait until the end of the show when everyone wants to leave?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

They're like, yeah, sorry. I'm like, oh, my God. They're like, why don't you just sit and watch the show? Our friend was out there, and as I'm watching the show, all these guys just start railing on me. Because, of course, showgirls Just came out. I'm, like, the only girl, basically, right? And I'm like, what? Like, wait a second. I'm not being roasted. And my friends like, honey, everyone gets roasted. I'm like, oh, this is. And I. So I just kept drinking. I was just getting. Oh, my God. I was just getting really mad.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What do you drink? What are you drinking back then? Tequila? Yeah, just straight. Are you doing it with, like, soda?

[Gina Gershon]

I don't know.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I don't. I never really drank tequila. I was a gin guy than a whiskey guy, but.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, I don't add any of that other funky stuff.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's how I love it.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah, I like it clear, you know? Anyway, by the time it got to my number, I was like, I'm changing my. My monologue, and I'm gonna make this more rock and roll than that. I mean, I was a little bit tanked, to be honest.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Sure, sure.

[Gina Gershon]

And so I just went after all those. And then I said, you know, the cigarette girl's like, get out of here. You know, I. I don't know what I did. But afterwards, Jeff Garland's like, that's the funniest thing I've ever seen. You got to do our show. I'm like, fuck you. You know? He's like, no, you're gonna do Curb youb Enthusiasm.

[Josh Adam Myers]

The coffee is here.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, my God. You're the best. Thank you so much.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's from. It's from. I'm trying to think of another. It's from Pete's Coffee. Is that okay? I'm kidding.

[Gina Gershon]

It's from Blank Street. Blank Street.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, dude, you went to the good spot. Big ups, dude. Oh.

[Gina Gershon]

And it's delicious.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Good. Thank God.

[Gina Gershon]

Anything but.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You were just asleep the whole time. No energy, no. SPILK is I wanted. SPILK is I wanted. SPILK is Gina. I love that. That was so funny, too. For you to still play the sexy Orthodox. Would you. Was she Hasid?

[Gina Gershon]

The Hasidic. They're like, if you only play the Hasidic, you one more time. And I'm like, what? And my friend was like, don't worry. You just play yourself. You always play yourself. There's one thing you do your entire life. This is. I mean, this entire year. This is Rick Rubin, who's my friend. He's like. I'm like, rick, I don't even know what this is. I've got, like, a movie. I got a thing. He's like, don't do anything except this. This is what you want to do. I'm like, really? And I trusted Rick, and he's like, don't worry. You just play yourself, you know? And I said, oh, okay. And so I get there, and I'm like, wait, what? You really want me to play the Hasidic? I'm like, oh, shit. And they're like, no, no, it's okay. You just make it up. I'm like, okay. Larry's like, can you do some sort of nondescript accent? And I went. And I thought about my waxer. And so I just went like, larry. And he's like, that's it. That's it. And we just took it from there. And it was so fun. Like, the fun. It's so much fun. That show.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, that must have been. Do you get intimidated when it's lightly scripted? Right? So lightly.

[Gina Gershon]

How about no script?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Really? Well, they tell you they're giving you direction to a point. I'm obviously. You know what the scene points are. You have to get through these.

[Gina Gershon]

There was like a. How big is this? Like a one by three little piece of paper on blue. I wish I had kept it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, you should have.

[Gina Gershon]

I know. I don't know what I was saying.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Larry, sign it.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah, I know. I'm really bad that way. I think about that stuff like, 20 years later.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I know. Me too.

[Gina Gershon]

And it had, like, 10 scenes. Like, you know, Larry walks into the cleaners. They flirt. I mean, really as minimal as that. And I'm like. He said, so, yay, the scene. We're gonna come in, and, yeah, you flirt with me, and I'm in my Hasidic thing. And I was like, all right. And. And I just. And I said, I'm allowed to curse and say, yeah, I've seen. Because I hadn't even seen a show. Yeah, like, do whatever you want.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You've never seen Curb? Not as a Jew.

[Gina Gershon]

I hadn't seen it at that point.

[Josh Adam Myers]

By the way, you're probably top five coolest Jews in the world. I feel like I'm in the top 25. But we. Yeah, we don't have many. We don't have many. It's like, maybe we had Bob Zimmerman. We got David Lee Roth. I always made a joke. I was like, I wish Axl Rose was Jewish, because he would have killed it like a Passover Seder. Just like Baruch Hutah. That's all I want to do, that joke. Catch me live, everybody, at the Comedy Cellar. No, but it's like, it's.

[Gina Gershon]

I have a show. I feel like a bad Jew. I am a bad Jew.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So Am I.

[Gina Gershon]

But I have a show. I have a show. I have a. Me and Griffin Dunn are talking. Doing a talk for the Alpha Pussy at the Strand. Like in the rare books section, which is so cool. On the. Whatever floor it is on April 1st. I'm like, Griffin, this would be so fun. And my cousin's like, you know, it's Passover. I'm like, well, I'll just hide the matzah and whoever wins gets a free book. I'm sure they'll love that. In the rare book section.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's like that. That is the coolest bookstore in New York. Melissa off tomorrow. Just did her.

[Gina Gershon]

She did.

[Josh Adam Myers]

She just did her book thing there. I was out of town for that. She's a previous guest and.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, I read her book school.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, it's.

[Gina Gershon]

It's.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Well, it's like. It's. It's the same. It's very similar. I mean, not really, but it is. It's just when you tell the story of this. What. You know, like what it's like to, to. To grow up in an area or in a profession that it's just not. It's mostly male dominated and kind of fitting in and pushing your way through and, and what you have to deal with.

[Gina Gershon]

And I think she's talking about the music business.

[Josh Adam Myers]

For the music business. Yeah. Which, which also you were in as well. I mean, the, the. The.

[Gina Gershon]

My family is all in the music business. I mean, I dabble in music and I've been infiltrated and I love doing it, but I, I never, I never considered myself in the music business.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But you, you were homies with Princess.

[Gina Gershon]

I mean, I was not homies.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Well, I mean, but it was.

[Gina Gershon]

He just wanted me to do his movie and I said no.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, but I thought you guys were friendly. Oh, okay.

[Gina Gershon]

I never met him. I never met him until that moment.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, yes.

[Gina Gershon]

I was friends. I was friends with Jill Jones.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Okay.

[Gina Gershon]

And she was. Because we used to do, like, musicals in high school. And then she's like, prince, like, wants to meet you. He's doing this movie and you're perfect. He saw your picture. He needs a singer, dancer, and an actress, and he likes your look. Can you come meet him?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

That's how that whole thing started. And it didn't end well.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I know, it's. I mean, would you, Would you have changed your name? I mean, like, just if you didn't, like. Because, because it's obviously. Well, so then this is going to lead us.

[Gina Gershon]

Would you want to go around being called Gina the rest of Your life, Gina. I kept thinking Gina. Like, I don't know. Like, I just got out of high school with all these funny names. I can't do that the rest of my life.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, I said. Now, on that note that we're talking about names. We. This is where I'm going to drop the beginning of the podcast. I'm going to. I'm going to Pulp Fiction. What happened when you came in?

[Gina Gershon]

Okay.

[Josh Adam Myers]

All right. So when she showed up, everybody, this has never happened. She's like, what? We're talking. Blah, blah, blah. We're doing this with this. I'm so excited. She said, where's Josh? And I'm like, I'm Josh. And she's like, I thought. I thought you were Seth Meyers's brother. And I'm like. And I just start dying laughing. Because the bane of our existence, me and Josh Meyers have been tagged in each other's posters, flyers. Because I have a bigger. I don't want to say following social media. He has no presence on social media whatsoever.

[Gina Gershon]

Doesn't he have a podcast too, or. No.

[Josh Adam Myers]

With his brother.

[Gina Gershon]

Yes, with his brother.

[Josh Adam Myers]

With his brother. So Seth is. Seth's on his way, though. Don't worry. He's coming to this.

[Gina Gershon]

Seth coming. Because I actually had a book for him. I'm gonna give Seth. I actually owe him five bucks, dude.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It made me laugh so much. And the funniest thing about that whole situation, because I had told you that the reason I changed my name was because Bobby Lee said I couldn't be Josh Myers because of Seth Meyers brother, who's already established actor. And, you know, he's doing that 70s.

[Gina Gershon]

He didn't want to be like J. A Myers or.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I did. I was gonna tell you the first open mic, I was J Money. And that was terrible.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah. That's good that you didn't go with.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Thank God. Yeah. And then it was. And then I think it was. I think there was another comic named J. Chris Newberg. And I was like, can I be J. Adam Myers? And I was like, no. And then I just said, josh Adam Myers. Because Joshua Adam About Josh Adams, too. Like, no, I thought about that. I also thought about going very, like, going very Face off and calling my name, like, Myers. No, Myers Joshua. Like, very.

[Gina Gershon]

That's a good name.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It isn't it?

[Gina Gershon]

Myers is a good first thing.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It is. It is. It is.

[Gina Gershon]

But I have gone Myers Adams, though. Myers Adam. No, Meyer Adams.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's too Jewish. That's too, like, Meyer Adams. Sounds like he works at, like, Morrill Lynch. He's like, hello, everybody. It's me, Meyer Adams. Okay, now we're going to work in your 401k. I.

[Gina Gershon]

Do you believe in bitcoin?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Listen, I'm telling you, it's going to go up. XRP is the future. Problem was what wasn't the problem? I, I. Because like I said to you, I've been doing comedy and music, and I started in music. I've been playing it, but I've been trying to be funny my whole life.

[Gina Gershon]

What do you play?

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, I play everything, really. I'm just. I'm, you know, if you know it, if you know music and you understand the vibe. It's all about the feel. And you. If you have that ear, you could just pick it up and noodle around.

[Gina Gershon]

That's not true. I have an ear. I can't just pick up and really noodle as good as I would like to.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What do you play? Like, what would you say you play best?

[Gina Gershon]

Jew's harp. For sure.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's. What is it really? Jew harp.

[Gina Gershon]

I called it Jew's harp because that's how it was introduced to me. And when I stole it, it was a Jew's harp. It's called jaws harp, mouth harp, Jew's harp. You know, everyone. It's been around and everyone claims it for their own, but I was, you know. But I was taught by this, like, Mississippi woman. She was like, give me that Jew's harp. Maybe. She was like, it's the chosen instrument.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And you played it on the Scissor Sisters record.

[Gina Gershon]

Record I did.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Which is rad, dude.

[Gina Gershon]

I think that was the first.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It was your second record. It was just. Oh, no, it was their second record. The first one has, like, I wanna take your mama, which. I love that song. That album is so underrated. And the second record's great as well.

[Gina Gershon]

I did the dance song.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yes. Oh, that's like one of their popular songs off the record.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So did you approach them or did they approach you? Did you go, look what I can do? Like, you just keep it with you at parties and go check this out.

[Gina Gershon]

No, no. How did that happen? I might have played for Rufus Wainwright for his record first. I don't know. I can't remember. I just remember I became friends with the Scissor Sisters with. And he was like, you gotta come to the showgirl same. Like, I don't know how. I can't remember how it happened, but somehow he's like, we play, you know, Jew's harp on this thing. I was like, sure. I only usually. I usually only play with friends that I know. I've only done that once, that I talk about in there. When Herbie Hancock asked me to play with Paul Simon, and I. I was like, dude, don't make me do that. He seemed mean. He's kind of a dick.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Was he? You know what? It's.

[Gina Gershon]

You know, he. He seemed that way just because I think, listen, he's a brilliant musician, of course. And I think, you know, he had all of his groovy players in the room. You know, Herbie's producing it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

One of the greatest musicians of all time. Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

All time.

[Josh Adam Myers]

All time.

[Gina Gershon]

That's a crazy story. That story's in there.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I loved it.

[Gina Gershon]

But, you know, Paul's looking at like, who the fuck is this chick that I don't know in my studio? Like, I would feel the same way if I was filming. Like, who is this other person that I don't know? So Herbie's like, well, I didn't tell him. I didn't tell him that you're coming. I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, no, this is not a good idea. He's like, no, no. I said, herbie, I wanted to play with you. He said, no, no, no, it's good. Good. So. So. Do you hear what he's doing? Like, give me something. I'm like, what? He's like. I said. He's like, you know, I'm like, I hear it. He's. Paul's playing in the. You know, recording it. I just go, you know, okay, okay. So he's gonna come in, and I'm gonna point you, and you're gonna play. I'm like, this is a bad idea. This is a really bad idea. And then, you know, Paul came in. He kind of looked at me. He's like, you know, she's got this thing. And, you know, he was annoyed, which I can't blame him, to be honest. And then he said, all right, give me something.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, God.

[Gina Gershon]

He, like, stood in front of me, his arms akimbo.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Impress me.

[Gina Gershon]

I just want to say you, man, I don't have to do your stupid song. But Herbie's like, you know, Herbie's like, you know, I love him. And so I just started doing that. And he was like, yeah, that's pretty good. He's like, yeah, why don't we record it now? Like, he was annoyed that he kind of liked it. He's like, all right, why don't we just record it right now? I barely heard the song And Herbie's like, it's just. Okay. Just go with it. I'm like, okay. So I went in there and I just did what I did. Did one take. And then afterwards, I came out, and he was already, like, mixing it in. Herbie's like, he's mixing it. That's good. That's good.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

And then it made it on the song perfect.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And it's funny, we. You don't have to say this. I'm saying this on this podcast from doing the research, because we're going through the 500 greatest albums. When we did Los Lobos record, it came out that. Because there was a lawsuit where he had taken a song that he wrote with them and put it on Graceland

[Gina Gershon]

and didn't give it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So we had a whole thing. We had a whole thing for a while saying Paul Simon. And then I saw him live, and I was like, he's so good.

[Gina Gershon]

He's like, so good.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He's so good.

[Gina Gershon]

Still not cool. But he's just so.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He is. But he is. The funny thing is. And then he talked about Linda. I go to Love Rocks, the Varvatos thing every year.

[Gina Gershon]

Every year.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Were you there?

[Gina Gershon]

I was there with Linda. She's like, you got to be like, you know my date here. So I wasn't. I usually, like, announce someone, but for some reason, they didn't tell me to do it this year. I'm like, you guys. They're like, oh, my God, we're. So I said, it's okay. So Linda's like, you're coming with me. So I just hung out backstage, which was like, it's so much fun backstage.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, my God. And what a show, this album.

[Gina Gershon]

I mean, everyone and.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, God. But it was. That was so cool seeing Linda do Black Hole Sun.

[Gina Gershon]

And then on top of that, didn't she sound incredible?

[Josh Adam Myers]

She sounded great.

[Gina Gershon]

But I was like, you should really record this. She's like, her voice, it fits her perfectly.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And she's such a little. I mean, I would call her little, but she is tiny.

[Gina Gershon]

Teeny tiny.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. And to have such a powerful voice and be such a force and such a brilliant songwriter.

[Gina Gershon]

Some of the stories I left out, I have to say.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Are we getting exclusives of the Linda?

[Gina Gershon]

I don't know if I can give you this exclusive.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, this is the next book. 12 years. You'll write another book.

[Gina Gershon]

It's like, all right, I'll finally tell you the truth. No, but I talk about Linda in this because, yeah, I stalked her when I had to write music. For Pray for Rock and Roll. And as I was going to go on tour, you know, Sherry Love Dog, who the movie's about, she's like, you know, none of these, the songs really work live. And I'm like, I'm starting to get that. Like, of course you never made it. And I thought, oh, fuck. I'm going on tour to promote the movie, but I have these songs that don't quite work. So I'm like, I got to start writing some songs. I started, like, you know, so I went into a writing frenzy. I took a couple, you know, other songs, but I just wanted to write them. I was in that state of mind. And. And I remember doing a show with Camp Freddie, and right before I went on, I heard this incredible voice, like this huge booming voice. And I'm like, who the fuck is that? Little cute, you know, I didn't know Linda Perry. I didn't know who she was.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, you obviously knew Four Non Bloods.

[Gina Gershon]

I, I, But I didn't.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You didn't associate?

[Gina Gershon]

I didn't associate and I didn't. She wasn't singing that, you know, but I just heard this voice. I said to the sound guy, like, you gotta crank my shit up, like, loud. Like, I can't. Like, her voice is huge. But afterwards, I remember saying to Matt, so I'm like, who is that? I wanna write with her. He's like, yeah, get in line. I said, really? I didn't understand to what degree everyone wanted to work with her, you know, And I didn't associate beautiful with her, you know, I just didn't know, you know, I was, you know, my own little world. And so I went up to her that night. I said, hey, I have, like, I think I could write some music, and I want. She laughed. She literally laughed at me. She said, okay, okay. I said, no, I'm not kidding. I really want to write with you. Like, I'm doing this thing. And then somehow I got her number and I called her. She said, she, I stalked her. I think I kind of did stalk her a little bit. I said, listen, give me an hour. Give me an hour. And if we don't have fun and come up with something good, just kick me out and at the very least we'll have a laugh.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I'm going to need coffee, though. You're like, not Starbucks. I swear to you, if there's Starbucks, I throw it in your face. You'll never be able to write music again.

[Gina Gershon]

No, that was like, late at night. That was more like, I need tequila.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah, Tequila, all the weed. And then we're good. Anyway, so we got together and I think when we started writing, I remember the song, it wasn't great, but I think she was just like, huh, you know, she's got something. And then we ended up through a series of crazy events. I made a bet and this and that. And then I got four more songs out of her.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Love that.

[Gina Gershon]

And then we just did an extra song just because we. For the album, which you can't get anywhere. I just found out there wasn't really a hit on the album. Cause it's all about, you know, for Pray for Rock and Roll about this girl who never quite made it. And so we ended up for the soundtrack wrote Stupid Star, which is a really good song, I think. And so I opened up my show playing that. So Linda and I wrote that together. She's just. She's brilliant, she's fun and I love her.

[Josh Adam Myers]

We've covered the Jam, the show that I do with all the comedians. At the end, we always do a big single, we bring all the comics that have sung out and we do a big sing along. And many, many times we've done what's up and it's just to see. Just everybody sings that. And at that show was the first time to be able to see her do it live. And then to have her do that breakdown where she really explains how she wrote it. Oh, I got so emotional because it was just especially what's going on in the world.

[Gina Gershon]

Especially now. It's just like. And here we are again.

[Josh Adam Myers]

God, it was just, it was the best moment of the whole. I mean the, the whoever is, is, is you know, se not sequencing or, or setting up just the order of the artist. And I know people, I gotta go early and blah blah, blah. But it' love from. I watched a lot of your interviews. I love that you do the bag now I'm talking about just to move the story along. It's like, you know what I'm saying?

[Gina Gershon]

Wait, what, what?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Well, you'll be talking and you're saying so then I did. So I wrote the book. But their Last one was 12 years ago and ba ba ba ba. And now we're here for doing this

[Gina Gershon]

and very like aware of like lengths. That's why like when I was doing that I'm like this story is getting too long. I want it to be like, you

[Josh Adam Myers]

know, well here's what I want to do because you've come on today and, and, and to promote obviously Alpha Pussy talk about it. And we're talking about as we going through the Rolling Stone 500 Greatest Albums list. We're talking about Joni Mitchell, Court and Spark. Okay? Now, what I've done is spent a lot of time, after reading the book, going through the book, trying to figure out the best way to compare this album to the book so we could talk about the book.

[Gina Gershon]

I mean, can I just stop right there? You can't. Don't. Please don't even try. No, no, no.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's not even. No, no, no, it's not. I'm not saying it is. It is. Because, by the way, can I say this is that I never got. But Joni Mitchell, when I saw this, like, Blue is down on the list because it's super low.

[Gina Gershon]

Blue is one of the greatest out. I mean, that to me, is my jam more than Court and Spark. But I. Once I started re listening, I have a lot of stories that connect to Court and Spark.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Good.

[Gina Gershon]

You know, and I respect it for so many different levels. But I just, you know, listen, Joni Mitchell's a genius. I think the only difference is. No, it's not. I mean, a similarity. I love that she paints and she does, like, she does different things. Well, she does music and she paints. And that's really where our similarities end. Because I wish. Honestly, she's. She's so genius. Brilliant. I can't.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I always, you know, I don't want to. I don't want to be. This is what I love about doing the podcast. When I was telling you earlier why I started it is I wanted to feel and I wanted to experience. And you look at the list and you see that Blue is in. I think it's in the top 10. Would you check that for me to see where it is?

[Gina Gershon]

Blue is one of the greatest albums of all time, period.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yes. But I'm just. I'm saying on the list. So I was like, oh, well, obviously it's got to be something special. And I put this on. I had never listened. I never listen to. Course. No, I never listened to Blue either. So I listened to this. This record and. And I was. It took a listen and I was like, okay, by the way, I'm listening to it at the gym the first time.

[Gina Gershon]

I know you gotta listen to it driving.

[Josh Adam Myers]

If I had a car, I would do it. But I'm a New Yorker now.

[Gina Gershon]

You know, whenever I get in the car, like, all I want, I just. That's like, okay, I'm going somewhere now.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But. But it was. But I was going to say is I listen to this record. And then when I. I think on the second listen, it was where I was like, wow, I. Wow. I get it. But I was still like, I got to go listen to Blue because now I'm. Now I'm jumping ahead and I'm like, I. I want to know what she did before just so I can maybe really keep this in a comparison. So I put Blue on, and when Little Green came on, I'm quietly sobbing at the gym. It's like one of the most beautiful songs. It's one of the. The best finds I've had from this podcast. It's up there with Maggot Brain that I was so blown away by. Totally different record. But I was expecting one thing and got another thing. I was expecting something with this. I was expecting it to be meaningful and be deep and. But I had no idea it was like it was gonna affect me the way that it did. And now I'm just like, I can't wait to just dig into more of her music, really dig in to. To Blue. And then with this record, you know, it's just. It really is like a perfect follow up. I mean, it's two albums later, but Court and Sport. Yes. From. From Blue. Blue, I think was 71. This is 19. We just double check 70. So I've got. So this is 74. Before this was for the roses. Blues is 71.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So my question to you before we get into the. To the album and the number three, by the way. It's number three. Oh, that's on the 2020 list.

[Gina Gershon]

What's number three?

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's this, right? Oh, no, blue is. Oh, blue is on the. Because they did this. We're doing the 2012 list, and then they updated the list in 2020 when we were already two and a half years in.

[Gina Gershon]

Dude, I wish you could have seen if you were in the blue. Did you see Brandi Carlisle when she did the whole Blue album note for note at Carnegie Hall?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, I would have, like, two years ago now.

[Gina Gershon]

It was insane.

[Josh Adam Myers]

All right, so here's what she did.

[Gina Gershon]

Such a beautiful job.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Find a time machine for me. Yeah, I'm going back in time. I'm. Get us good tickets. Okay, I'll get you a coffee and a tequila. Okay, we'll do this. But when did. When did you find Joni Mitchell? Like, I mean, obviously, like, growing up in California, in the Valley, like, is it just there was blue just kind of everywhere?

[Gina Gershon]

I didn't find, you know, when I was growing up in my household. Cause my brother and Sister were older.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Okay.

[Gina Gershon]

I kind of grew up musically with, like, Jethro Tull and Cream. Led Zeppelin, sure. Right. It was. I think my brother was into the more hard stuff. My sister, though, you know, who's in the music business, she was definitely the one. You know, I'd be like, studying. Cause I was such a nerd. And she's like, okay, you gotta go to the Roxy tonight. I'm like, I have a test tomorrow. She's like, david Byrne's playing. Talking Heads are playing. You have to go see him. I'm like, what's the Talking Heads? More music about buildings and food. I'm like, if Tracy told me. I'm like, okay. I'm seeing David Byrne, like, jumping on top of the tabletop with that album. I'm like, like, oh, my God.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Roxy, dude.

[Gina Gershon]

At the Roxy. And then another time, she's like, okay, you gotta go tonight to see Elvis. I'm like, elvis is dead, dude. Like, she's like, no, Elvis Costello. I'm like, what's the Elvis Costello, right? Yeah, his first tour. She's like, you gotta go see him. I'm like, all right. I've seen every single one of his shows. Every single.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He's the best.

[Gina Gershon]

He's my. Hands down.

[Josh Adam Myers]

We had a moment. We had a moment. When Paul McCartney did those shows at the Bowery. Remember? It was like last year. And I brought Bill Burr with me because he was in town doing a play. And we were on the floor where with. With the Regular people, which I loved. And up top is everybody. You could expect it would be. It was like, Amy Schumer and there's Yoko and there's Anne Hathaway. And I look over and there's Elvis Costello kind of leaning over. And I had pink hair at the time, and I just freshly colored it. And so I stick out like a goddamn sore thumb. And he looks down at me and I just go. He gets like that back.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah, he's. He's cool.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, man. And then to hear him at the. Because I wanted to see him live before, but I was out of town, and it's just to see him at the.

[Gina Gershon]

I've seen every. Every. I think more than any other artist, his every record that he had. There was one song that I'm like, this is exactly what I'm going through. Like, this is my song. He was like my timekeeper. You know what's going on my barometer?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Sure.

[Gina Gershon]

In fact, I remember I was going out with someone, and they didn't really like Elvis Costello or Tom Waits. I'm like, I just don't think this is gonna work.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, my God.

[Gina Gershon]

I can't.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's like saying you don't like dogs or cats. It's like, you're like, all right, dude.

[Gina Gershon]

He didn't like. Just so I'm not a Totally. Didn't like Elvis, which is already a big problem. Tom Waits big problem. And then he didn't like the movie Wall E. And I'm like, really?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Are you.

[Gina Gershon]

And I was like, I can't.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's probably a Holocaust denier.

[Gina Gershon]

Well, he didn't speak English, so maybe that has something to do with. But still.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Okay. That made to give him that.

[Gina Gershon]

He didn't speak so much English. He was definitely. But I don't care, you know?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

You could still tell.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Music is music, Wally. We'd read the fucking subtitles, dude. You know what I mean? We'll put the thing. We'll call the closed capt on, but don't even.

[Gina Gershon]

Don't even put on anything. You could watch that movie without any subtitles. I watched the Godfather. The. I was trying to work on the plane going to LA the other day. And I'm like, oh, my God, I gotta finish this thing. I gotta finish this thing. And the motherfucker next to me was watching the Godfather. I'm like. I'm like, well, I've seen it a zillion times. And I kept looking over and I watched that whole entire thing without any sound. And it's still brilliant. Brilliant. I'm like, oh, my God, this is such a great. I think anything. You shouldn't have to know what they're saying or at least be able to see it or feel it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Totally. Especially with certain movies. Movies. You've seen him so many times. You just know what's going on with the album. There's that chick that's out now. I want to. I might her name up. Rosalia. Rosie.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And she has that album. And it's like. It's. All in all, it's like 15 different languages. And I love none that you speak. None that I speak.

[Gina Gershon]

And so beautiful. It's.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Even Bjork's English is shitty English. So I'm like. I'm just. I think she's singing English or is that Scandinavian? And it is one of the most powerful records I've ever heard.

[Gina Gershon]

It's a gorgeous, gorgeous record.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So back to Joanie, though. So then when did you find Joanie?

[Gina Gershon]

So. Joanie. I know. So I didn't have that. I had that or I had Jazz. Cause I also grew up with my Uncle Jack.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Sure.

[Gina Gershon]

Who, you know, had a big jazz orchestra. And he was like a musician's musician. So I'd always go to see his shows and go to rehearsals. Used to do the Grammys, you know, do the music for that. So I'd always. But he definitely leaned towards jazz. So I had that stuff in my head a little bit. I had the rock stuff in my head. And I was trying to think, you know, I remember when Help Me came out, that was like, a big thing. But I think when I heard Twisted. Cause I went to Blue later on. So Twisted was the first one. Which, by the way, Joni didn't even write Annie Ross and Let me double check.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

The other guy wrote. But Andy Ross was a big.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, Andy Ross and Wardell Gray close the record.

[Gina Gershon]

And so when I heard Twisted, I was in high school, and I was just like, oh, my God, I love this song. Luckily, I didn't realize, ooh, this is a really hard song to sing. But I had. I had just started going to Beverly High right from ninth grade. And all of a sudden I had a music class, and I had a musical theater class. And they're like, okay, bring in a song you'd like to sing. And I didn't realize you were supposed to bring in, like, musicals, you know? And I'm like, I'm bringing this badass song, Twisted. Cause it's cool, you know. I gotta work on my upper register stuff. You know. It's not an easy song to sing. No, but it was like, it's a great song. And, you know. And so I remember, I was like, that doesn't count. And the teacher's like, what, are you insane? This is a really hard song to sing. And it was really fun. Also on that same. I remember I hadn't read a lot of poetry, but I had a poetry class. And he's like, really, hoity toy. Everyone's bringing in, you know, all the big guns, right? And I brought in Rock and Roll Suicide by David Bowie.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, gosh.

[Gina Gershon]

And everyone's like, she's cheating again. She's bringing around the old man. I forget his name. He was like 89 or something. And he's like, good poetry is good poetry.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

I give you an A because I broke down the whole.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He's like, this is really.

[Gina Gershon]

This is really good lyrics.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I said.

[Gina Gershon]

Or, you know. So I said, fuck you, and I got a. But. So, I mean, to me, I listened to. And Joni Mitchell. So twisted. I think I just really Loved the song. And it was definitely. And it was so interesting that you listened to the whole album. And I remember saying this to my uncle, because I said, it's so weird. It's not really pop and it's not really jazz. It's like it was a mixture. I was trying to figure out what it was. And he said, kid, listen, let me tell you something. He said, there's two kinds of music. There's good music and bad music. And I said, ah. He's like, yeah. He goes, joni Mitchell's a badass. And then not only, you know, what's so cool about that album, which I didn't know till later, but my. You know, who played my uncle. One of the coolest experiences I remember. It's just like when I learned how to drive. So I wanted to drive at any moment that someone would say, do you want to drive? Like, yes, I do. Can I use your car? My uncle was doing the arrangements for Blade Runner, right?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, wow.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah. So he's doing all the arrangements and strings and all the stuff and, you know, for the album. And my aunt's like, hey, can you take this contract to Uncle Jack? It was. It was like 10 o' clock at night, or 11. It was late. I'm like, yeah, you know, somewhere on Sunset Boulevard, that studio, I can't remember.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It was like, Sunset Sound.

[Gina Gershon]

Maybe it's Sunset near towards Hollywood on Sunset.

[Josh Adam Myers]

The only one I'm thinking of is Sunset Sound. That's like, by, like. I don't want to say Sycamore, but

[Gina Gershon]

maybe that's what it is. Old school.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. I think it's Sunset Sound. It's got the letters that almost look like a Beach Boy.

[Gina Gershon]

Sunset Sound. And so I went there and it was really late at night, and I'm trying, you know, not to crash the car. Cause it's like, for my first, like, night drive, I'm like, cool. I have little contracts and I'm like, wonder where my uncle is, you know? And I walked in and all the lights were out, right? And I heard, like, the most incredible riff, sax, like. And it's, you know, the love theme of Blade Runner.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

And it's one guy playing and my uncle was, you know, doing it. It was Tom Scott.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, no shit.

[Gina Gershon]

And Tom Scott is all over court and Spark.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Really?

[Gina Gershon]

Yep. He did all the wins and he did a lot of arrangements.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. I want to talk about Twisted, though, because this is. I'm trying to figure. I'm trying to find ways to compare, you know, your career, your life. To the album with Twisted, because it's like. It's. It's.

[Gina Gershon]

How are you gonna. I don't even understand why you're trying

[Josh Adam Myers]

to do that, because this is what the podcast is.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, you. You.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I use the album as a roadmap to interview the guest. We talk about your love of the record and then how you found it, and then I. We go through the important facts.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, I know. A computer comparison.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I think I have one. What would be yours?

[Gina Gershon]

I think that for Twisted.

[Josh Adam Myers]

We're doing Twisted now. Because then we're gonna for just.

[Gina Gershon]

I would say for the whole album.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, okay. Well, because you want to jump all the way there. I'll jump. You know what? Let's save Twisted.

[Gina Gershon]

Okay.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Let's save Twist, because it's the final song on the record. What I had come up with is, like, with Alpha Pussy. Okay, here we go about flipping the power dynamic. Okay. Would you say. Because the book premise is you reclaiming the idea of alpha energy not as a macho dominance, but sexual confidence and emotional intelligence with zero apology, it's just

[Gina Gershon]

owning your own power. Sure. I don't even think it's flipping it. It's just like, don't push me around. It's about autonomy. It's about sovereignty. It's about standing on your own two feet. Because, look, a man or woman or animal could be trying to make me do something I don't want to do, but it's just a matter of being calm and not letting you know people or toxic energies make you, of course, go off your own path.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Most powerful person in the room is the one who knows exactly who they are and doesn't flinch.

[Gina Gershon]

That's true.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. And so here you go. So this is very court and spark, because Joanie is constantly writing about women navigating power without losing themselves. Now. Now, here's a question I want to ask you. Do you think Crystal from Showgirls is an alpha pussy, or is she still playing man's version of power?

[Gina Gershon]

You have to understand something before I answer anything. Please don't.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Please do.

[Gina Gershon]

I'm so literal. Like, it's like, almost. It's not like ocd. It's like, almost like something. It's like, I don't know what it is, but I take these very literally, which is so insane. I'm trying not to be so much like that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, but that's what makes you. You don't change at this point. Don't fucking change.

[Gina Gershon]

No, no, no. I have to change. No, we always have to change. We Heal.

[Josh Adam Myers]

We shift. Yeah, but don't. You know, you're not like.

[Gina Gershon]

No, no, no.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Don't dune laser it and go. Not dune. Tron.

[Gina Gershon]

No, no, It's a different thing. Anyway, I'll explain that later.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Please.

[Gina Gershon]

Wait. What was the question?

[Josh Adam Myers]

So the question is, do you think Crystal from Showgirls is an Alpha, or is she playing a man's version of power?

[Gina Gershon]

What's a man's version of power? You got to explain that. I. I'm not sure I know what

[Josh Adam Myers]

that, you know, the way that she treats. What is Jesse Spano's character's name like? For some reason, I can't think of it.

[Gina Gershon]

But why is that? I. Elizabeth Berkeley. But why do you. Why isn't it. Why isn't it just power? Why is it a man's version of power?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Take it however you want.

[Gina Gershon]

That's just.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, what would you think? I'm just thinking power.

[Gina Gershon]

I mean, you're a man, and maybe that's your version.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I'm so not powerful, dude.

[Gina Gershon]

No, no, no.

[Josh Adam Myers]

If you would have said. If you would have said, you know what? I'm not. I'm not staying for. I'm only staying for other Josh Meyers, I would have been. Okay. I wouldn't have fought for it at all.

[Gina Gershon]

You did. No, you. You got out of that well. But, no, I mean, I don't. Listen, I'm not a man, so I don't look at things like I'm gonna be manly, powerful, powerful like a man. I just am like, this is what I want, and this is what I'm gonna get. And Crystal was very aware of who she was, and she liked being the diva, but I didn't. I didn't equate it to anything masculine. I don't. I think sexuality, and I think all that's. I think she was into power. I don't even think she cared about sex. I think she liked being on the top. She liked being a diva on the top. No pun intended. But, you know, I just think she liked being in control and being the queen. And when all of a sudden, she saw this little shithead, in a way, trying to start to take her man, like, trying to take. Go onto her territory. You know, in a way, it was kind of funny. And then all of a sudden, it was like, you know, she's just so disrespectful. And at the end, I think she's like, you know what? I'm out. Like, I'm gonna go off and, like, start an ostrich farm or Something in Florida. I don't know what she's gonna do.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What did you. What did you have to. When you started, when you think. When you got that role, you got the script. Script. And we'll get into more later when we're talking about some other stuff, too. But. But did you. Was there somebody that you kind of framed crystal after, or did you just. Is that already inside you? I mean, was that, like. Because from knowing you and everything. I know it's like in the book, too. It's like you're. You're. You've always been very confident. I mean, obviously we are flawed individuals, but we still like you. You've always held yourself up to, like, just a very. Like, just cool. Like. Like I said, the alpha pussy. So, like, were you. Was there a person or a thing that you kind of. Or an album or something that you were like, oh, this is. This is. This is what I'm gonna be. Remember that? Oh, yeah, like a dog. She's. She's. She's an alpha Buzzy.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah, she's an Alpha.

[Josh Adam Myers]

She's an Alpha Buzzy.

[Gina Gershon]

No, I just remember when I read it, I just kind of went like, ooh. She reminded me of, you know, Margot in All About Eve. And I would always been played Eve part, you know, I'm like, oh, my God. It's like Margot, like, you know, dancing in a show, you know? And I thought, oh, that's kind of cool. Because when I first read it, I wasn't sure who I was reading for. I thought, well, I'm maybe a touch old for Nomi, and maybe I'm too young. I thought for sure I was too young for Margot. So, you know, I lied about my age. I said I was older, and I try to look older and all that stuff. But I liked Margo. I'm like, oh, she's so fun. Like, it was one of those. But then when I started really working on it, I kind of went with mythology. I went with the Aphrodite psyche myth.

[Song Vocalist]

Ooh.

[Gina Gershon]

So that's when I was like, aphrodite psyche. Because if you structure it, it's this exact same structure. I told all this to Joe Esterhaus, by the way, the day I met him, the second day before shooting. And I'm like, dude, you're so smart. It's like collective unconscious, Aphrodite psyche, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he was literally like, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I'm like, oh, so interesting. But, you know, When I thought about it in those terms, I thought, oh, my God, Royal colors. I want purple, silver. Like, it helped me figure out else.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

Because it structurally is very similar.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. I want to go. To go off. That is, like, with the Showgirls, chaos and, like, kind of owning the fallout, too. Because it's with the record. Because, you know, with Showgirls, you went. It went from, like, career risk, career curse, to cult masterpiece, which no one knew it was going to get. The second. This second third act and at the time, you know, being trashed and it's like, it's. You have to live through that public humiliation of having this.

[Gina Gershon]

I was never really trash, by the way.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, you weren't. But the movie itself. But you're a part of it and you're a big.

[Gina Gershon]

It feels kind of crappy. But you know what? I wasn't surprised. I kept. When I was finishing that, I'm like, oh, my God, what the fuck is this? And my agents are like, we're gonna

[Song Vocalist]

make you a big, huge star.

[Gina Gershon]

We're gonna get you a studio film. I'm like, find me a part that I'm acting, that it shows I'm really an actress, like, now. Yeah, like, you don't understand. This isn't gonna be what you think it's gonna be. And then I found Bound. And then they were like, you can't do this movie. I'm like, why not? Like, oh, first timers. And it's. You're playing another lesbian. I'm like, first of all, show. You know, Crystal's not a lesbian. She's like a Whatever ism. And secondly, like, who cares that she's. I said in these. I met the Wachowskis. And I'm like, they're badasses. They're like, they're really. I get.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You knew right away. You knew right away they were doing assumptions. Because, dude, Bound was such a perfect. You can see so much of the Matrix. Like, just the style, the shooting, the colors. Everything's black and gray. I mean, just getting the performances out of. Out of you. Jennifer. I mean, just Joe. I mean, it's such a phenomenal movie that I remember seeing it before the Matrix and. Because as a cinemaphile, just being blown

[Gina Gershon]

away because it was before the Matrix.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Exactly.

[Gina Gershon]

We allowed them to do the Matrix.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But also it was like two of the hottest girls in all of movies at the time was you and Jennifer. But. But this is the thing, is that over time, you know, you realize the movie doesn't fail. But people didn't Know how to watch it yet? That was just the. The. The thing. It's like. It's almost kind of like, you know, Rocky Horror. Like if that bomb or. No, I'm talking about Showgirl still.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But then. So it's like. So you reframe the experience, you know, learning to survive, being misunderstood at scale. So when Showgirls bombed, did it feel like a people's party's moment? Like you're in the room, but suddenly everyone's pretending you don't exist? Was it.

[Gina Gershon]

Not to me. No, I. I was good in that movie.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You were great. No, I'm. But you're. But like I said, but you're a part of this thing and you're a big character.

[Song Vocalist]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

Except by the time it came out, I had already done Bound.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

So that turned around.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So you cleansed the palette. Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

And I just thought, you know, listen, I didn't direct it, I didn't produce it, I didn't write it. Like, I did the best job I could as an actress because that was my job. And I felt pretty solid. I mean, did I want the movie to be better? Like, did I? I pleaded with those guys. I'm like, please cut out 8 seconds of stuff that's not even that interesting. Make it an R movie. I don't know why we're making it so serious. And they really. I think their hubris is they got in the way of, like, oh, we're gonna be the first big, you know, NC17. And I'm like, I don't know how. And I had this idea of, like, I've got a good. I remember coming. I'm like, I've got a great way to sell this movie. And. Cause I was driving down Sunset and I was going to see them. I said, I just had a vision, you know, I said, I saw a billboard and, like, there was a curtain. Like those burlesque shows. And, like, you just see the toes. Like 100 days of Showgirls 99 or Showgirls. And by the time you get it, it's like Showgirls. And it's like a mud flap girl with like, sparkly and fun and pink and fun, you know? Cause I thought, this should be fun. And then they showed me, this is the poster we're using. And I'm like, what? I'm like, that's really serious. And I'm like, in my head, I'm like, oh, wow, we're fucked. I'm like, we're fucked. This is not. Like, I knew. I was like, this I was in a different movie that everyone else was starting to shout. Show.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

So, yeah, yeah, that's.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, but what a. What a turtle.

[Gina Gershon]

So, no, people were. I don't remember. I think I just started working so much, I didn't really go into rooms, you know. And like I said, I didn't really, you know, people, Showgirls, help me. You know what I mean? It's like, of course, like, they could say, like, the movie's terrible, but, like, wow, she's pretty good, you know?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

I think in spite of what I was doing, now it's like, like, of course, you know, people seem to get it. I just saw it for the first time and I kind of could watch it in a different sort of way now.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What was that like? What was it like seeing it? How many years had it been? Because you did you did you go. I mean, obviously you probably go to the premiere, stuff like that.

[Gina Gershon]

But I went to. I went to the premiere because I had to, and I. But I brought. My family was here in la and I was going off to do David Letterman the next day. So I was really excited, right? And I kept telling my family, oh, my God, it's so funny. Like, and so my row up until the rape scene, right, we were just. We were the only ones laughing. We were laughing our heads off. And we're like, oh, my God, isn't that funny? You know, like, really having a good time. And then the rape scene, I was like, oh, my God. Like, oh, my God, what is this scene doing in here? Like, and then before it ended, I'm like, I gotta go. I'm leaving before this is over. But I had an excuse. Cause I had to get on a plane to get to New York the

[Josh Adam Myers]

next day to do Letterman thing.

[Gina Gershon]

I was like, I'm outta here. I'm fucking outta here. And. And so I remember thinking, why is that rape scene in there? Like, oh, my God, this is so. And then. So I hadn't seen it for like 28 years, or however long it's been. I'm actually gonna go do my first Showgirlsy sort of thing ever.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Ooh, that's awesome.

[Gina Gershon]

In San Francisco with Peaches. Christ, that drag queen.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, no way.

[Gina Gershon]

They're reopening the Castro.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, right on. Yeah, I saw that.

[Gina Gershon]

And I'm doing a book signing. So I'm like, fine, sure, I'll do it. It'll be funny. A friend of mine who's a writer, she's like, you don't understand what a brilliant movie this Is.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It really is.

[Gina Gershon]

And I said, it's really. I can't. No, I don't see it that way. And she's like, you have to see it. You're not seeing it. I'm like, fine. And so when it was showing at the Paris, you know, which was like, totally sold out in two seconds, I'm like, wow, this is cool. I always wanted to be in a movie at the Paris.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

And, you know, maybe, you know, time had gone by and, you know, maybe I, you know, I've been writing and I've started directing a little bit, and so I could see it from a different point of view. And all of a sudden I'm like, oh, oh, I understand why that rape scene is there.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It needs to be in there.

[Gina Gershon]

It has to be. It's really a story about, like, ugly America.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yes.

[Gina Gershon]

Right. And it's about power dynamics and control and, you know, but I was just so involved and had so traumatized by dealing with so much of the stuff for so many months that I just was like, let me out. Like, I, like, I can't even let. Just move on, you know, but writing about stuff. I didn't realize it until I started writing, like, a lot of this stuff that. How much tension I was holding. So it was kind of like, good to get it all out and to really see it in a funny light and process it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And so with going into Bound right after that, because that was the next question, which, you know, you're going right into Bond, which is smaller still. Still risky, but way more respected.

[Gina Gershon]

Well, no one knew that. But I'm like, I need to do a movie where I'm cutting my hair off nails. It's not about my makeup. I get to act this cool thing. And I just knew it was a cool project. I'm like, who doesn't want to do this movie? But, I mean, people won't even. Weren't allowed to go in because it was a lesbian movie. And I'm like, fuck that. Who cares?

[Josh Adam Myers]

But it was. I mean, it is, but. But it's.

[Gina Gershon]

It's just more.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's. Yeah, it's. It's a. It's a crime drama. It's a thriller. It's. It's up there with, like. It's like. It's almost like the. The trickery of the. Of what you. Your character, and Jennifer do to get the money is just. Yeah, it's like an M. Night Shyamalan movie. You're like, what's gonna happen? I have no idea.

[Gina Gershon]

There's incredible Filmmakers.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Incredible filmmakers.

[Gina Gershon]

And I remember when I went in, because at first I'm like, am I going for this and that? I went in a couple times because I'm like, I don't know. I just had this crazy experience. I don't know if I want to deal with another, you know, I don't know. And. But I said, how are you going to shoot this scene? Because they are new filmmakers, and they're making a movie about these two women, these two guys at the time. And I was just like, well, really, how are you going to shoot this and this? And they were like, well, you know, we're going to take the camera, we're going to go through the bottom of the car, and they were going to go into the thing. And I was like, like, wait, what? Like, what are you going to do? And I'm like, oh, my God, that's an incredible shot. And so I started kind of asking, like, what are you. How are you going to shoot the beginning? They're like, you know, they were graphic novelists before, so they knew every single shot. And every time they explained a shot to me, I'm like, that's amazing. Like, that's really cool. And finally, they were funny. Like, you got to do our movie. You're the only actress we could stand being in the same room for more than 15 minutes.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I'm like, like, as long as you have coffee. As long as she has coffee.

[Gina Gershon]

Flatter you. Flatter as. I'm like, of course I'm gonna do it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So. So this is where the twisted question comes in. Because twisted is, you know, it's a double. It's a. It's. It's. It's both just, like, bound. It's literal, like, one word titles, but there's double meanings. So you seemed like when you hit it. You seem to hit a nerve with women of a certain age who saw Bound when it came out. And it gave license for women to express a certain facet of their sexuality through something artful and substantial that otherwise would have been relegated to some Red Shoes diary or like, you know, exploitive Cinemax, softcore After Hours being. That's a lesbian movie, like you said, I assume, like, you and Jennifer have women that still approach you about it, you know, because of the performances.

[Gina Gershon]

It's nice. It's one of the. Like, I just did one of these Comic Con sort of things, and still women come up. They're like, thank you so much. You helped me come out of the closet.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, like, a lot.

[Gina Gershon]

And it's like, it's really nice, you know, but women hadn't seen themselves being represented in that way as the hero in a film. You know, I get the girl, I get the money, I get the truck. You know, you get like.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You get like, Ripley. An alien. An alien, yeah. But it's like, who was like. Like, which was written for a man, obviously. And then they've even said it. But it's like, Ripley was written for a man. They never expected to be a woman. But then Sigourney came in, they were like, no, this actually makes it. And she kills it. Yeah, much like you guys kill it. It's a like. But. But she's not out. She's obviously been, you know, she. Even in the.

[Gina Gershon]

That's why I don't like this whole man power or like, sorry, I didn't

[Josh Adam Myers]

mean to frame it as such.

[Gina Gershon]

No, no, no. But it's.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Please don't hate me.

[Gina Gershon]

No, I don't hate you. I just think it's interesting because I think probably a lot of people think of that way. I just see. And even Inbound, it's not like I'm like, oh, it's a lesbian. Like, oh, this is a movie about trust. Like, oh, she's in prison. And then everyone's like, oh, yeah, yeah, so she likes women. That, to me, was almost secondary.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

Like, it wasn't about coming out for other people. It became a bigger thing. But I just kind of of go underneath of, what's this really about for that character? It's about learning how to trust and be in a relationship again and all that stuff. So it's woman. Like, whatever. I, you know, I just don't think of things like that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Were you. Were you excited, like, when you went to. Going. The experience that you had at the Showgirl screening versus the screening, I'm assuming. Did the studio get behind Bound or. No, I know they did.

[Gina Gershon]

No, no one was going to see.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I think I saw like, Encore or something. No, not even hbo.

[Gina Gershon]

Because the studio or it wasn't in a studio. It was like the distributors were like, oh, this is a lesbian movie. How are we going to promote. It's like, just. Why don't you promote it as, like, a good movie? You know? But it kind of got buried quickly. It got incredible reviews and then disappeared. And then the critics, Liz Smith in particular, and Rex. Not Rex Reed. Robert Siskel and Ebert. Yeah, those guys were like, where's this? Where did this movie go? This is the top. When the top 10 list came out, everyone kept saying, bound, Bound. Where did this movie go. So it was the critics and it was just the time when like DVDs were starting to be given out to the Hollywood, you know, to. For academy stuff and all that. So. And it's through that and the critics and getting the DVDs out that people were like, what is this movie? This is fantastic. Because it was only in the theaters for two seconds because the distributors wanted to market it as a lesbian film instead of like a badass thriller noir with two leading women, you know?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. So what about Help Me of this record? Is that the.

[Gina Gershon]

Help Me is a great song? I mean, it's like. I think it was her biggest song, right?

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's one of them.

[Gina Gershon]

It was.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It was the one commercial. It was the one that I knew the second it came on I was like, oh, I know this. And then I made a video of me and Lekka the Delta 1 pod. And her head's looking at me and I put the song over it and. And I wrote like, oh, I get Joni Mitchell now.

[Gina Gershon]

I mean, help me. It's like I feel like on. Well, no, that blue. No, that's blue song. Like all I want, like whenever I start driving, like all I want comes to my head. Like when I'm going on an adventure. As soon as I would meet someone and start like feeling like, oh shit, I really like this guy. Like all of a sudden I'd hear like that. It's just a part of my DNA now. Like that song would start playing. I'm like, oh shit, shit, shit. Like, oh, you know, like that feeling of like what's gonna happen? And I think she really, really expresses like the way I was feeling about a lot of things.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Breezy, very breezy. It says, you know, lyrically it's a panic attack. And heals though. That's what's funny. It's like. It's almost like.

[Gina Gershon]

Is that what it says?

[Josh Adam Myers]

From the research I've got, it's her desire colliding with hard earned self knowledge. The genius is that the hook is universal with the chords, but they're sneakily sophisticated.

[Gina Gershon]

She's sneaky. She's so incredible. What I was going to say, what I love so much about her is that you can't. And I was gonna try to make us comparison. The only one I could really think of, please. Is that I think people have in the past, according to my observations, they have a hard time defining who I am, right? They're like, all of a sudden I'm writing. Like all of a sudden I'm Doing music. All of a sudden I'm like, that lesbian person. All of a sudden I'm like, oh, wait, I'm doing this comedy and different. They never. It's almost this thing is like, oh, is she doing jazz? Is she doing singer songwriting? Is she doing blues? Like, I don't like having those labels. I like to be able to freely do whatever it is I want to do, and I think she does that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

And I think she was really, like, incredible. I mean. I think. I mean, maybe Court and Spark was the first album that really kind of added different instruments, and it made it more poppy or more rock. Although then she throws in Twisted, which goes into a jazz thing, which she. You know, she went hard into the jazz world after a while.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yes, she did.

[Gina Gershon]

She like any great artist, like.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Like.

[Gina Gershon]

Like David Bowie did it. Like, don't pin me. Like, just let her do her thing.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Which is what I was so happy to hear. Blue and love Blue for what it is. And that's why this record is so great, because she was fighting the same thing. Because she's trapped. She don't want to be trapped in the sad folk girl music, you know, very similar. Like, it's like, you know. Do you ever feel like your career became the same situation, just different versions of the same box?

[Gina Gershon]

No. I mean, listen, I was never. I mean, I think people want to put you in a box, but I. I. You know, maybe it's. You know, I just get bored of things. So I kind of. As soon as I do something serious, I'm like, I feel like doing a comedy now. You know, if, like, acting feels weird, I'm just gonna do music now, like, because that feels fun, you know, I was like, fuck this. I'm just gonna write and, like, go into my own. You know, I. I kind of move around. So for better or worse, like, so people can't say, oh, get her for this, because she's that. Because if someone else had seen that, they're like, no, she's not. She's that. Right? Which I like. But someone like Joni Mitchell, I can't even equate myself. No, I can't. And I'm not just being humble, but, like, on the level of, you know. What's the word? Not fame, but a level of success. Because, you know, she's undeniably, like, just one of the greatest singer songwriters. Like, I mean, her lyrics are insane, but she was already so huge that she was saying, I'm producing my stuff. I'm doing this. I'm doing whatever the Fuck, I want. And people were like, great, she's gonna make us money. Whatever, we'll let you do that. I've never really had that of someone saying, what do you want to do? We'll give you all this money and do it. I would love that. You know?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Well, with. After you do Showgirls and then you go right into Bound. When were you. Were you very scared? Because what was the next project after that was.

[Gina Gershon]

I think I did this World and the Fireworks. As my agent at the time said. He goes, it's like your trilogy of perversion. I'm like, wait, why are you calling it that? Because it was like there were three kind of darkish sort of characters. I'm like, I thought, you know, this one, the Fireworks should have been great. It was based on a Jim Thompson novel. But it didn't. It wasn't directed right, I don't think.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You don't think so?

[Gina Gershon]

I don't think so. I think that he missed it. Really? Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But let me see.

[Gina Gershon]

It looked cool.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You do? Yeah. So you go, showgirls, Bound. Yeah, this world. And the Fireworks, you do touch. And then you do Face Off. Which Face off is again, you're Face Off.

[Gina Gershon]

Stuff's cool.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's an awesome movie. Dude. I was.

[Gina Gershon]

You've.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You've worked with pretty much some of my favorite directors. I mean, low key. Like, are they. Are, you know, are they Coppola or. They're, you know. But like. No, but dude, I'm telling you, John, every one of them has made some of the most incredible films. John Woo. What was that like working with John Woo? Especially because I think that's his. No, because Broken Arrow was his first English speaking movie. Face off was the one right after that.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. So what's that like working with. With. With Travolta, Cage, which I love Cage's third act he's doing now. I love long, Long Legs. I've watched it 90 times on Delta flights. Bring it back, Delta. I'm a Diamond member. I'm asking you, put Long Legs back on.

[Gina Gershon]

Seen it yet?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Are you kidding?

[Gina Gershon]

Watch it. Yeah, I guess I got to see. Oh, my God, I love Nick.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I just.

[Gina Gershon]

He's so great.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's just he's. He's one of the most underrated and I think underappreciated actors. And I. And I see. Was it like it can see, you know, because it. Because it does seem like sometimes he is. I don't want to say overacting. I don't want to use that word. But he gives so much in so many of these characters, which you could see it even in Leaving Las Vegas, which he won the award for.

[Gina Gershon]

He goes for it and he doesn't really edit himself. And if he has a good director, then they'll make him brilliant. But I love the fact that he's so free. He's like, I'm just going to fucking do my thing. And hopefully he's supported by a great director who could really go, this is gold. This is. I mean. And John Woo definitely did that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What's that like working with Travolta and Nicholas Cage and especially coming off. Off that run. I mean. And this is now, like a blockbuster. They're framing this as this because this was one of the biggest movies of the summer.

[Gina Gershon]

Face Off.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, Face Off.

[Gina Gershon]

I mean, you know, I was. I mean, first of all, I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm doing a John Woo movie. This is so cool. Because I was a big John Woo fan. Travolta. I was kind of a little bit nervous because I was like, oh, my God, John Travolta, he's like, couldn't be a nicer guy. Like, and always has really good espresso and good food in his trailer. Which you love.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, thank you.

[Gina Gershon]

Which I love. I'm like, oh, my God. Anyone who gives me food and coffee, I'm like, oh, you're so good. Great. But he's just a sweetheart. Like, he's just a sweetheart of a guy. And Nick, we've done a couple movies now together. I just. I dig him. You know, we were in high school at the same time, but we weren't friends. We didn't really know each other. But, you know, I just. He's just. He's weirdly a gentle kind of weirdo and a great, you know, is very. He's an artist.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

But I really like working with him because he's just kind of, you know, in Face off, he obviously had a wild ride. So I was just like, all right, hold on. With some of these scenes. But it was. I mean, he's really fun to work with.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I could imagine.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, was it. Do you get intimidated when you're working with certain people, like, or certain directors? Are you. Are you just able to be the alpha and just go, no, I know what the I'm doing, and it's not

[Gina Gershon]

about knowing what the I'm doing, because I don't think I'm. I think it's not about knowing what I'm doing, you know? It's about. And the Alphabet isn't about. Like, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do. It's just if someone starts trying to push me in, like, in uncomfortable situations, or if they're trying to maneuver me, and I'm like, mm, mm. Like, you're not gonna do that. You know? But when it comes to working, no, I just want people to be so good. Cause they'll help me be better. You know, I have that thing if someone's, like, really talented, you know, like a great director. I get like. I just start having giggle attacks. I'm like. I just. I get like, oh, my God, he's so. I love being around really genius people. Cause I just, you know, it makes me excited. And as far as being an actor, like, you just have to know your shit, right?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

But I'm like, oh, I'm gonna have to act with Al Pacino and Christopher Plummer. Like, this is gonna be fun. And it's so fun.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I didn't, again, do the thing about the inside.

[Gina Gershon]

I mean, the inside. Christopher Plummer, he starts yelling at you. You're like, wow. I don't have to do anything. I just react to this guy. Cause he's just so present.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's so cool.

[Gina Gershon]

And great musicians. You know what I mean? When you're with great musicians, they're so generous of spirit. And, I mean, you better know what you're doing.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Sure.

[Gina Gershon]

Right. But it's just so. They're so kind. I feel like they're so cool.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Do you feel more comfortable in the music world or, like, when you're jamming with people or in the acting world?

[Gina Gershon]

I think I weirdly feel more comfortable with people in the music world just because, A, it's what I grew up with.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

B, I think people in the music world, for the most part, are just who they are. Right. Sometimes actors, you know, and everyone's always. It's a little bit cagey. Sometimes they're not quite sure who they are. And there's a different sort of insecurity where I think musicians who are good, they know who they are. That's what they're writing about. It's a different level of confidence. I mean, also, like, when I was making my little weird album that I had to do, like, musicians are just so great. They're all like, hey, can I play on your record? Like, you don't have to go through an agent or this or that. And like, I'm like, hey, yeah. Hey, can you be here? Yeah, I'll be here. In a couple hours, I'm like, great. And it never would happen in an acting world. Like, you know, like, well, my agent and my lawyer and this and that. You can get the greatest musicians because musicians just. They just want to play, you know, and there's a purity to them, I think.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Totally. And Joanie, I mean, accumulated a collection for this record. Do you know the people that are on this album? Dude, it's like, yes, first of all. Like, I'm just gonna say these first, just because it's so random.

[Gina Gershon]

Larry Carlton.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, dude. Joe, you've got Robbie Robertson.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

David Crosby, Graham Nash, Cheech Marin, and Tommy Chong are on there.

[Gina Gershon]

Twisted. They're both on. All on Twisted.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. Yeah. Jose Feliciano is in Free man in Paris.

[Gina Gershon]

Yep.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, Joe Sample. It's just.

[Gina Gershon]

It's ample throws out at Larry Carlton. Tom Scott.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

Crazy.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Because they all. See, that's the cool thing about. You know, about music, is when you know somebody is doing something and you're like, oh, this is groovy. I want to. I want to dig on this chick. I really. I want to be a part of it.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah. It's the same Graham, I think. Was she going out with Graham Nash then? Maybe she was for.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Is this an exclusive? I think there's a. There's a good chance Graham Nash is coming on the podcast. Emily, please make it happen.

[Gina Gershon]

I think you should look. I think that's, like, a known thing. I mean, I know I talked to David Crosby once about Joni Mitchell, because I got to hang out with him for a second, and of course, you know, I was just like, so tell me about Joanie. Because, you know, he kind of discovered her, right? And he. They went out, I don't think, for very long, but he was just like, she was just so good. And I would just, like, bring her to a party, and she'd start playing, and everyone would be like, who the fuck is this? And he told me some story. He's like, I just remember when we were writing, we written two songs. I can't remember which songs. Maybe, hell, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Maybe it's that one for Woodstock, right? And I guess maybe they were all living together something. But they went back and they had these two incredible songs, right, that they had written that day. Or, you know, and they're, like, all proud. And then Joni's like, oh, yeah, I wrote this. And I think it was like. Like, you know, both sides now. And he was just like, motherfucker. She was just better than all of us. That Was David Crosby saying that. I'm pretty sure it was both sides. Now I'm not. Don't quote me. It was one song that he's just like, she was just better.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I read this thing, and I hope this is not completely true, or it maybe is. It says in a 1979 interview, Cameron Crowe, when he was working for Rolling Stone, said that Mitchell recounted playing the newly completed Court and Spark to Bob Dylan, during which he fell asleep. He. She later suggested that Dylan was probably trying to be cute in front of the label boss, David Geffen, who was present.

[Gina Gershon]

And, yeah, maybe he was just tired.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Maybe. Maybe he didn't have. Maybe somebody brought him Starbucks.

[Gina Gershon]

Starbucks coffee and fucking knocked him out,

[Josh Adam Myers]

taking that joke all the way to the. I'm gonna milk that joke.

[Gina Gershon]

Maybe that's true. But I have to say, I would bet Darla dollars to donuts that at some point and Dylan. Bob would have been like, she's a great songwriter.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Do you feel somebody like Bob Dylan would be threatened by. I'm not threatened. But, you know, when you have somebody, when somebody's like, you're the genius. You're the genius, and then somebody else comes out. I mean, you know, as an actor, it's like, do you. Do you guys get threatened by other people when you see genius and you see somebody, that.

[Gina Gershon]

Bob is a very particular person. I could literally write a whole book about him 12 years from now.

[Josh Adam Myers]

12 years from.

[Gina Gershon]

I won't, because he's a private guy and he would kill me, you know, But I have to say, I think he's, you know, someone like him. That level of. They're just so used to people kissing their ass all the time and being yes men around them. I just think they appreciate it when it's someone normal. Like, I don't know if I like that or, like, that's weird, you know, honesty. I don't think they have a lot of that around them, especially someone like Bob. I've seen it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

I mean, I met him by punching him in the face.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Wait, wait, what?

[Gina Gershon]

Didn't you get to that part of the story? Oh, my God. I don't want to ruin it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Don't ruin it. Don't ruin it.

[Gina Gershon]

But we were. But we were sparring partners, and I. I knocked him down the first time we met. So he's like, hey, I always needed a good woman to kick my ass every now and then. And we became friends. I didn't kiss his ass. I kicked it. You know, he thinks I suck him.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's. That's Such a cool way to be able to, like, finally meet somebody. You know what I mean? It's like I met a rock star recently at a vintage T shirt shop in Los Angeles. I'm not gonna say name names, but I'm going to Coachella with him in his band because they're headlining. Who?

[Gina Gershon]

Come on. Who?

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's. I'm Nick from the Strokes.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, yeah. So I bet it at a vintage show.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So I. So I'm at. There's. I'm at. It's the one memorial. It's on Santa Monica Boulevard. It's a new one. They've got great vintage T shirts. And I always go vintage shopping in every city I go to when I'm on the road.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So I have a extensive collection. Way too much.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, nice.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, I love it. I love it. If whoever. Whoever I get married to and my kids are to going to have. They're going to have. I mean, just. I have the. Because I pull the. Off the wall. I don't go through the rack. So I'm like, let's get that good one. That dude. All right. But we. We were talking about a Wuang shirt about. And it was 800 bucks, and I was like talking about seeing Wuang and. And he comes in and he's like, oh, my God, I'm from New York. I saw Wuang a bunch and we talked about music. And then he had seen my Netflix special taping, and he was like, yeah, I was in the audience. He's like, you're a comic.

[Gina Gershon]

And I was like.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I was like, no way, dude.

[Gina Gershon]

That's so cool.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And he's like, yeah, dude. He's like, you're doing the music thing and the crowd kind of sucked. But then you. You kept going and you just won them over. And I was like, oh. And he's like, yeah, well, I do music too. And this is a half hour into the conversation. So I've been cool. I've been myself not knowing who is just. He's just some guy wearing sweatpants with long hair and a gold tooth. He said, well, I'm in a band. And I'm like, oh, what band? He's like, the Strokes. And I'm like, yeah, you're Nick. And then I was. Then it just. But it's that half hour buffer.

[Gina Gershon]

Right.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That was enough time for me just to be. Be myself.

[Gina Gershon]

Because you're just normal and cool. And if. You know what? If he were an actor, he probably would. Had a little bit of a defense mechanism.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Sure.

[Gina Gershon]

Or he would have Been like. Like the ego would have been like, what do you mean you don't know who I am? Like, we're musicians. If you're comfortable, they're like, I don't

[Josh Adam Myers]

really give a. Oh, he's the best.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Everybody, listen, everybody. All the. The famous people that I've. That I've become close with are all just like. It's like you don't even realize you're with them. It mean, it did take me a while to really be comfortable around Bill. Burn her. Who's now one of my best friends.

[Gina Gershon]

Is it. He. They asked me to do his podcast.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, you should.

[Gina Gershon]

He kind of scares me a little.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, no, no, he'd love you. I'll do. Please. Because I told him you were coming on this. He loves you.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, does he?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Was. Because he's. He's been on the show.

[Gina Gershon]

Like, no, I'll do it, but I think he wants me to be in la. I have to be in the room or. I don't know if it's a show or a thing. And I'm not gonna be in LA for a few months.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Well, then go and do it in a few months. Yeah. Dude, listen, the book ain't going anywhere.

[Gina Gershon]

I know. I keep thinking it's like a movie. I was like, after that, it was like, goodbye. They're like, no, no, in May you're doing this. I'm like, we're still promoting this.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It'll be audiobook soon. And then they. I know. Well, listen, I have to get to a cardiology appointment and. And which I don't want to, but I have to. My cholesterol is 290, everybody. I'm working on it. We love steak. If you caught that part of the

[Gina Gershon]

podcast, you just gotta. You. I. Listen, I'm with you. Not as you can't eat steak and hamburgers every single day of the day of the week.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, I have to. I don't eat hamburgers. What's your favorite hamburger in Los Angeles and then New York. Say that while I look. I just put my outro out.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, in la, you know, if you can find a good In N Out. I still like a good In N Out burger.

[Sponsor Voice]

Really?

[Josh Adam Myers]

You're. You're. You're. You're.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, actually, no, I take it back. I take it back. I mean, that's for fat if you're driving. Okay, you know what? I. There used to be when I used to live in la. It wasn't a fancy place then, but now it's become a little bit more the Golden Bulls got the best hamburger to me in la.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Really?

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Okay.

[Gina Gershon]

It's really good. It's a good burger.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I'm. I'm for the win. Win on.

[Gina Gershon]

What's for the win?

[Josh Adam Myers]

For the win is. Bert told me about it. It's on Franklin, right by the 101. It used to be that French restaurant. And that little nook that's right next to the next. Next to Caesar's Auto. And then the. The old Cafe 101.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

So, right. So it's like two things over and it's right in the corner. So next time you go there, it's. It's.

[Gina Gershon]

It's like near the donut shop. The new donut joint.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yes, the Kettle Donut.

[Gina Gershon]

I know donut joints more than. Is that here hamburger. Yeah. That's my evil thing. In la or anywhere, but LA especially, I have this idea of like, oh, if I eat all three of them before I get out of the car, it doesn't count.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, it's like, I'll burn it off on the drive.

[Gina Gershon]

I'll burn it off on the drive. No one will know. It's three in the morning. No one will know.

[Josh Adam Myers]

What about in New York? What's your favorite burger in New York?

[Gina Gershon]

That's a good question. I mean, I like an Odeon. Odeon is a good burger. Houseman's makes a pretty good burger. There's another place, Hachevel, that's pretty decent. Not. The fries are. Is strong. Those are the first three that come to mind.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Gramercy Tavern. You ever had that one?

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's my favorite.

[Gina Gershon]

That's a good one. You're right.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's my favorite. But that's. That's like my. That's like my local restaurant because I'm in Gramercy, so. So I just walk over there. I know the bartenders, and they. They bring me in and, yeah, it's the best. I get the salad, the burger. Chocolate chip cookie. Used to be. It used to be 69. 69. Now it's like 68. 47. But I loved it when it was 69.

[Gina Gershon]

The chocolate chip cookie. That's my jam too.

[Josh Adam Myers]

The jam. All right, let's do these final questions. By the way, everybody go out and get. It's out now, right?

[Gina Gershon]

It's out now. And the audible's out now, too.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Do you. Did you have fun recording the.

[Gina Gershon]

Of course. Well, yeah, I did. Except, you know, the last book I did, I did with Christian McBride. I'm like, Christian, what Are you doing, like, come here and, like, I'm gonna play Jesus. You're gonna play bass, and we're gonna, like, do the music in the background. This. There's no music in the background. Which, you know, it was a different thing, but I don't know. I haven't listened.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It really is a brilliant book. I, I, I'm telling you, you've got more things to say. Get it out. Like, you've had such a cool life, such an interesting life. You're. I'm so glad that you stuck around because I stuck around. Stuck around. I was charismatic enough. I was like, please, I'm telling you, we have a big following. I was like, here are my numbers. I showed her my social media.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, I stuck around with you. I thought you meant I stuck around in my career. I was like, okay, so both.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Both.

[Gina Gershon]

I stuck around both.

[Josh Adam Myers]

We asked these questions to everybody, and we'll promote the out of the book on the next few podcasts just to make sure we get it out for everybody. Oh, my God. We're. We're. Dude, we're fans. Please come back. Like, we have, we have a. We have our final 100 episodes coming up because we were doing this, and we're really, like, it's all, it's just, it's going to be huge guests, a lot of fun, and I'd love to have you back.

[Gina Gershon]

And I'm talking about music, please.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I'm so glad you had fun. We ask everybody these questions.

[Gina Gershon]

Okay.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And if you need to look at a list of what the songs are, but it's very easy. What is your favorite song on Corton's favorite.

[Gina Gershon]

I mean, I have to say, I love people's parties. You know, I think that's a really incredible song. Like, sometimes that would just describe, you know, they have passport smiles. She has phrasing. Sometimes that I'd go into a party and I'd feel very much like then I'd hear that song in my head. I mean, Free man in Paris is an interesting song. It was the first time I realized, oh, you could write a song about someone. Like, I, you know, it really occurred to me, like, oh, that's so cool that you.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's about David Geffen, too.

[Gina Gershon]

Yes, about David Geffen. But I thought, oh, my God, I hope someone writes a song about me. But I hope it's nice. I mean, twisted. I love just because I just love the song. I was like, oh, I feel so schizophrenic now. You know, I was at that age of, like, 14 or 15. I'm like, I. I just thought it was just a fun, fun song. I mean, down to. There's something on everything.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You gotta pick one. What's the one that you take with you forever? You gotta really. Everybody, dude, everybody.

[Gina Gershon]

Okay. Twisted, Twisted. I'll go twisted.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And not the corn version. And remember that one, you know, corn.

[Gina Gershon]

Okay, never mind.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Moving on, moving on.

[Gina Gershon]

They did a version of it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, it's just they have a song called Twisted where they're like, oh, he does one of his. Like, I can't imagine. Huge corn fan, by the way. We're not. I love corn. She loves corn. We all love corn. She loves the vegetable.

[Gina Gershon]

And I love corn on the cob.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, God, I love the Mexican. Corn on the cob.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

So good. I like that too.

[Josh Adam Myers]

My favorite song I think is Free man in Paris. I really thought. I thought it was Help me because that was the one that I knew. But I kept going. Going back to Freeman.

[Gina Gershon]

That's the obvious one. It's such a genius song. But it's like been so overdone. Like, oh, it's too easy. Although it's a great song. It's great.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's great. You can't deny it. It's her big hit. That's her hit.

[Gina Gershon]

That's what the one Free man in Paris. Whenever I'm in Paris, I literally can't. I find myself walking down feeling that song and singing it in my head. Yep.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I wish I would have known this when I was there. Because I was there most of the summer. I was listening to a lot of air, a lot of moon safari.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah, okay, that's fair.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I listen to a lot of like, like New York. I listen to a lot of jazz. Like some Oscar Peters.

[Gina Gershon]

Oscar Peterson's great.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

So you know who did amazing jazz scores that I don't think people, I mean, not, not they don't know jazz, but like one of the best scores ever written. His first score ever for the pawnbroker, Quincy Jones.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Really?

[Sponsor Voice]

Well, he's.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean he's a genius, but it was his.

[Gina Gershon]

It was first score. It was the first time you really saw like, oh my God, what you can do with a score. A score had not been like that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

And he had sick people on it. Quincy Jones and my uncle lived together in Paris when they were like 21 year old guys. Can you imagine?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Dude, your family is so much cooler than mine.

[Gina Gershon]

My uncle was. My uncle was the coolest guy I knew for sure.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Well, I have a distant, distant relative Of Sylvia Sidney, the woman from Beetlejuice with the. With the throat slash. She's like. You know, she's like the one that works at the. When they all.

[Gina Gershon]

That's cool.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's awesome. And then also Jules Fisher, the lighting guy from the Tonys. He's like.

[Gina Gershon]

Jules Fisher's amazing.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, but I don't know know him. I mean, but they're.

[Gina Gershon]

He's your. What is he, your uncle?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Like a cousin? Through marriage. But they're. We're there.

[Gina Gershon]

He's cool.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I'm the cool one in the family.

[Gina Gershon]

Oh, sure.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. I'm the cool one. All right. Least favorite song on the record, or is this a. No, Skipper. Is this something that you. You. Is there anything on this record that you would skip over?

[Gina Gershon]

I have to look at the list again.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

Because I can't remember things. There's one song that I. Maybe I skip over, but it doesn't. I don't want to take away from it. I think if I had to. Is it Trouble Child? Or maybe just like this Train? I love down, by the way. Down to you is incredible.

[Josh Adam Myers]

This whole record's great.

[Gina Gershon]

Down to you is incredible. The lyrics. I mean, her lyrics are insane. Or maybe Car on the Hill is the one I'd have to skip.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, I didn't love it.

[Gina Gershon]

I don't know. I can't. I can't.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I didn't. I didn't love everything equally, but I. I think this is a vibe. I think you could call it a no skip. But I also feel that, like you said, some of the songs that you mentioned, maybe, like, I. I've heard it enough. I'm good. But I think as a whole record, I think it is almost flawless. It's almost flawless now.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

The big question. Can you.

[Gina Gershon]

To this record, you could to anything.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, you can't. That is so untrue. You cannot fuck to everything.

[Gina Gershon]

Okay. Put the list up again. Let me see what the fucking song was.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You got to start from the beginning. You put it off at the beginning. Court and Spark comes on. Can you fuck?

[Gina Gershon]

I mean, Free man in Paris. You could fuck, too.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Sure.

[Gina Gershon]

Court and Spark.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Gina Gershon]

Listen, it's just. It the type of. You want to do it, like, you just shift it to the music. You know what I mean?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. No nipple clamps are coming out for this thing. This is not. This is like sweet, sweet, tender, like, touching. A lot of. Lot of eye contact.

[Gina Gershon]

It's a lot of, like, wine on the side of the table. Yeah, yeah. It's.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's A. It's a. It's wholesome sex. You know what I mean?

[Gina Gershon]

Sweet.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's like you hold each other when it's done and you let the rest of the album play.

[Gina Gershon]

You know, the person. It's not like a swipesy sort of situation.

[Josh Adam Myers]

But the thing is, though, and. And Brandon Boyd from Incubus said it when he was doing Jeff Buckley, he was like, you can't not to that song. And it's just because you just his lyrically his. You just like, sex is about like Chad.

[Gina Gershon]

It's like Chad Baker. Like, you can't not to chat Baker.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, yeah. My Funny Valentine. Great song. Sexy as. Yeah, but it's like that. That you can. But something like something very lyrical where. I think Joanie is a very lyrical person, as well as the melodies in her voice. It's. It's like you can't not get lost. And if, like what you said earlier, it's like sex about being present.

[Gina Gershon]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And if you're gonna just be like, you know, you see yourself.

[Gina Gershon]

I think Joan. I think Joni Mitchell's more about like making breakfast the next day together.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Music. Sure. No, I dig that.

[Gina Gershon]

It's more about breakfast music.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You can't to everything. Yeah, you can to a lot of stuff, but you can't to everything.

[Gina Gershon]

You can to everything. But, like, should you. To everything. I think you should leave some music for like making breakfast or having a little snack in between fucking.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Sure.

[Gina Gershon]

You know.

[Josh Adam Myers]

All right, and last question. What would be your elevator pitch to get someone to listen to this record that's never heard Joni Mitchell or never listened to this record? Like, how do you sum this up

[Gina Gershon]

if someone's never listened to Joni Mitchell

[Josh Adam Myers]

like me, like two weeks ago?

[Gina Gershon]

Because I'd never listen to Joni.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, I'm telling you, dude, I am. I'm. I know a lot about music, but that's why I'm doing this, because I wanted to find out. And now, dude, I think Blue might be one of my favorite records I've ever.

[Gina Gershon]

Blue is one of the greatest of all time.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I think this is great.

[Gina Gershon]

Honestly. Blue is. I probably like more. Even more than Court and Spark, to be honest.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Well, good. You'll come back in a year and a half when it's down to the bottom.

[Gina Gershon]

When we're down to the bottom 10. Blue is insane. Blue's. Forget it. I would just say. Don't be an idiot. You gotta know this music. Yeah, I would just like, you have to know if you like music, you need to listen To Joni Mitchell, Blue Court and Spark. Just everything. She just changed things too, you know, and the freedom she has and the brilliance she has. You know, if you're writing an album, I don't think I'd say listen to it, because you'd be like, well, I'm not gonna write lyrics after this or to play music, you know, because she's just brilliant.

[Josh Adam Myers]

She really is, I think.

[Gina Gershon]

And she's so. And she's so. There's no one else like her. And that's what I love so much about her, too.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I couldn't agree more. I think if you've ever fallen in love with the wrong person, stayed too long at the wrong party, confused attention with love, or thought, I can handle that, this and absolutely could not. This album would hit you like a velvet hammer. And much like you said, I. I don't think this is a record. I think this is a put on the background put. This is not just a put it on in the background record. This is a pour a drink, text someone you shouldn't and then realize you made three emotional mistakes by track four album. Go listen to this record if you haven't everybody. And please go out and get Alpha. How I Survived the Valley and Learned to Love My Boobs by the one and only Gina Gershon. Thank you so much for sticking around and coming on Dawn. This was a fucking blast, dude.

[Gina Gershon]

Thank you. Thanks for the coffee. See, I perked up a little bit afterwards.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, you did. You did. What did I tell you? What did I tell you? The one and only Journey. Gershon. Follow on Instagram at Gina Gershon. Please follow me back. Please follow me back. Please follow me back. I just wanna be Instagram friends. Please follow me back. Heck, even with a sickness, I still can hit the notes. Go to gina gershon.com and check out that bold new memoir, Alpha. It's out now, so grab a copy from your local bookstore. Yeah, go to a bookstore and go to the cool one too. Don't go to Barnes and Noble, you can buy it there. But go to the cool. Go to the one that needs your business that the people go to have readings at and not dorks. The cool people like the Strand. That's the only bookstore I know. I don't read books. Everybody reading Gina's was amazing, though. So, yeah, check out gina gershon.com and for all things at Gina Gershon on all social and go to those live events. All right, party people. We just listened to 1974's Court and Spark from Joni Mitchell for new music peak this week brought to you in part by Distro Kid is a track called Tell Me it's over by Solia. Find links to the music on our website the500podcast.com and if you you are in a band and you want your songs played on the 500, send it to us500podcastmail.com Put it the album and artist and influenced you in the subject line next week. Dude, it is our first Mamas and papas record. I'm excited. It's my Mom's favorite band 112From 66 if you can believe your eyes and ears y' all got homework to do. But is it homework? Nah, cuz we're those dorky kids are like teacher Josh. You didn't give us home homework. Enjoy it guys. It's a journey. We'll see you soon.

[Song Vocalist]

Don't look at me like I've got blood on my hands I'm not naive but I know you think I am you could have had it oh tell me if so but tell me we're done Tell me you never said I was the one Tell me it's so Tell me what then Tell me you never said I was the one. Were you always this cold it haunts me in my sleep and I look for you and every person I need you could have had it oh tell me it's over tell me what then Tell me you never said I was the one Tell me it's over Tell me, tell me we done Tell me you never said I was the one. And when you forget me please he stay. Far from me don't call me B. Tell me so but tell me we're done Tell me you never said I was the one Tell tell me it's over Tell me we're done Tell me you never said I was the one.

[Podcast Outro/Intro Voice]

The 500 keeping it flee see for the fleece nation on the 500.

[Sponsor Voice]

This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. No matter how you do game day, on the couch, in the crowd or manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right in with a full lineup of non alcoholic beer styles you can enjoy. Bold flavors all game long. No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out for water in the second half. Stock the fridge for tip off with a variety of non alcoholic craft styles. Available at your local grocery store or online at athleticbrewing.com near Beer Fit for all times. The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and [e-mail], we've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50,000 five star review use to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered. Real Design professionals free samples zero pressure right now. Get up to 45% off with minimum purchase plus get a free professional [e-mail] rules and restrictions apply.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Next Chapter Podcasts.