115 - The Who - The Who Sell Out - Brendon Small

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers

Episode 115 – The Who – The Who Sell Out – with Brendon Small
Original Airdate: March 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, host Josh Adam Meyers is joined by musician, comedian, and animator Brendon Small, best known as the creator of Metalocalypse and Home Movies, to discuss The Who Sell Out—the third studio album by The Who, released in December 1967. The conversation weaves through Brendon’s deep connection to The Who, the concept of "selling out," the album’s unique structure, and its place as a transitional work leading to Tommy. They also draw parallels to their own careers in music and comedy, reflect on the state of the music industry past and present, and nerd out about composition, animation, storytelling, and culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Brendon Small’s Background & Influences

[09:07–11:37]

• Brendon Small is currently on a 20-year anniversary tour with Death Clock and Amon Amarth.
• His musical and comedic journey intersects with The Who’s emphasis on storytelling in music.
• Brendon reminisces about his early days with influential comedians like Ron Lynch and Wayne Federman, linking the creative comedy community to The Who's influence.

Quote:

“Ron and I go way back... and I think that's like, that's the song that changed everything for the who and probably made me such a huge fan... that first song that would eventually turn into Tommy—song stories, storytelling, you know, Pete Townsend. To me, so, so I'm a huge who fan for that reason.” – Brendon Small [12:38]

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2. Early Exposure to The Who and Musical Storytelling

[14:02–17:59]

• Brendon’s first exposure to The Who was through cable airings of Tommy and Jesus Christ Superstar at a young age, igniting his fascination for narrative-driven, operatic rock.
• He worked backward into The Who Sell Out and A Quick One, appreciating the evolution toward longer-form storytelling.

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3. Context of The Who Sell Out: The ‘Concept Arms Race’ of 1967

[25:30–29:05]

• 1967 was marked by cultural revolution: the Summer of Love, the Vietnam War, and an explosion of psychedelia in music.
• The Who Sell Out emerged months after Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band and during the rise of rock concept albums.
• Pete Townshend aimed to match the ambition swirling around The Beatles and other contemporaries.

Quote:

“So the who are competing not just with bands, but they're competing with basically what the idea of... the concept album. This is the arms race.” – Josh Adam Meyers [27:13]

• The Who initially attempted literal ‘selling out’—Townshend wanted to sell real-life ad space on the album.

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4. The Album’s Structure: Pirate Radio, Fake Ads, and Satire

[29:05–32:27; 49:22–52:56]

• The album was designed to mimic a pirate radio broadcast, inserting fake commercials, jingles, and parody adverts between tracks to satirize the commercialization of pop music.
• Some listeners (like Josh) find the commercials jarring; others (like Brendon) love them for their time-capsule quality and worldbuilding.

Quote:

“I think what you don't like is something that I do like. I think the nature of the era of the ads and how... it's kind of a comment on how we're being marketed to. But... Pete Townshend is smart enough to go, can I sell ad space to my own record and make extra money?” – Brendon Small [106:15]

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5. The Album as Bridge: Transition Toward ‘Tommy’

[52:56–56:58]

• The Who Sell Out is described as “the cocoon before the butterfly”—a crucial transitional work pointing toward the narrative and compositional ambition of Tommy.
• The song “Rael” is cited as an explicit compositional precursor to Tommy’s motifs and excursions into rock opera.

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6. Band Dynamics & Competition

[29:58–32:27]

• The Who, like their contemporaries, were driven by internal and external competition: not only against bands like The Beatles, but also within the band.
• This competitive spirit is connected to comedy and animation scenes as well—Brendon relates his experiences trying to “outwrite” classmates and bandmates.

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7. Comedy, Music, and Satire: Parallels to Animation & Home Movies

[32:27–42:32]

• Brendon shares how his career in Home Movies and Metalocalypse was influenced by a blend of musical skill and comedic timing.
• Drawing parallels to The Who’s use of humor, he discusses embedding jokes and irony in music without undermining musicianship.

Quote:

“If I'm going to do something with music and comedy, I'm gonna have to make it a lot more complicated. And it's gonna take a lot of me sitting by myself in a studio with a guitar around me and a typewriter…” – Brendon Small [34:02]

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8. Songwriting and Emotional Center

[23:28–25:30]

• Both hosts reflect on how the greatest rock/pop music delivers a genuine emotional punch—whether rage, longing, or humor.
• Brendon highlights “Marianne With the Shaky Hands” as a favorite, both beautiful and slyly funny.

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9. Why The Who Sell Out Matters: Satire, Innovation, and Time Capsule

[68:29–74:49; 106:00–108:28]

• The album is lauded for being an early example of satirical concept records, influencing later acts (e.g., The Kinks, Queens of the Stone Age, Tenacious D).
• For Brendon, it offers hidden emotional depth and marks the creative leap toward Tommy and beyond.
• The “annoying/genius” duality is debated: Josh finds the skits distracting, while Brendon sees their “commitment to the bit” as precisely the point—and the album’s risk-taking justifies its place on Rolling Stone’s list.

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10. Comparisons to Animation & Visual Storytelling

[42:32–47:15; 94:41–97:48]

• Brendon draws lessons from Tommy’s visual style, especially Ken Russell’s direction, and how that cinematic approach influenced his work in animation.
• Both hosts geek out about influences from Tommy to modern animated features and the impact of music on storytelling across mediums.

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11. Modern Parallels, Recommendations, and Musical Eclecticism

[91:54–95:26]

• Brendon and Josh exchange recommendations, discussing artists such as Rosalia and the Gorillaz, and advocate listening widely across genres for inspiration.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On discovering The Who through film:

  “I must have been seven... when I saw Tommy... So I had a really strong awareness... And then much later... I started searching out the rest of their catalog.” – Brendon Small [15:07]

• On the album’s concept in the era of Sgt. Pepper:

  "Where the arms race of the 80s is in full bloom, this is the concept albums, arms race..." – Josh Adam Meyers [27:13]

• On using humor in music:

  “How do you balance immature humor with real musicianship? ... that's all we're ever trying to do—just not beat them over the head with the dildo, just know that the dildo's in the room.” – Josh Adam Meyers [49:22]

• On the album as a time capsule:

  “You cannot divorce that from this record of what ads sounded like at that time ... it just creates more place as you're listening to it.” – Brendon Small [72:39]

• On The Who’s compositional leap:

  “I put Pete Townsend really high up on, on the level of composers ... harmonically, he's scratching the surface of what he can do beyond this [album] ... that's in this too.” – Brendon Small [108:28]

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Album Discussion: Track Highlights

• “I Can See For Miles” – Universally agreed as a standout and one of The Who's greatest songs [69:32]
• “Marianne With the Shaky Hands” – Brendon’s personal favorite, appreciates its subtle humor and beauty [103:30]
• “Odorono” – Example of emotional narrative disguised as satire [51:01]
• “Rael” – Noted as the direct “crumbs” to what would become Tommy [52:56]

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Differing Listener Experiences

• Brendon: Listened with “no stakes,” enjoyed album as a hidden gem and time capsule, values the humor and emotional range.
• Josh: Listened while reviewing Rolling Stone’s ranking, felt commercials break flow, “not the record to listen to at the gym,” but still sees its vital transitional role.

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Final Reflections (Rapid-Fire Q&A)

Favorite Song:

• Brendon: "Marianne With the Shaky Hands" [103:30]
• Josh: "I Can See For Miles" [103:32]

Skip Songs?

• Brendon: “I don't skip over this record... I thought, this is a cool, undiscovered who record... not their most popular stuff, but ... solid as hell." [103:43]

Sex Record?

• Both: “Absolutely not.” At best, “maybe a lonely guy masturbating record, maybe. Put on Marianne with the Shaky Hands.” [105:53]

Elevator Pitch – Why This Album Is Important:

• Brendon: “It’s the bridge. We don’t get Tommy unless we go through this... You can hear the etymology of what their biggest masterpiece will be.” [106:15]
• Josh: “You have to hear this... the band in the cocoon, ready to become the butterfly... the blueprint for bigger masterpieces.” [107:20]

Starting Point for New Listeners:

• Both suggest newcomers start with Tommy or The Who’s greatest hits, then explore this record for context. [108:28]

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Cultural & Technical Deep Dives

• Brendon and Josh discuss the history of album competition, the rise and fall of the ‘emotional delivery system’ in pop, and the evolution of animation and music’s overlap.
• Film recommendations include Ken Russell’s Tommy, Altered States, and The Devils, as well as animated techniques and influences.

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Takeaways

• The Who Sell Out is a unique, polarizing, and conceptually bold album that serves as a bridge between The Who’s mod-era singles and their era-defining narrative rock operas.
• The album’s satire, use of commercials, and playful experimentation are both admired and criticized, but all agree it marks a key creative leap for the band.
• For artists and listeners, it’s a prime example of transitional risk-taking: where a band, or any creator, moves from singles to making their most ambitious work.

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Further Information

• Brendon Small is on tour with Death Clock for the 20th anniversary of Metalocalypse: metalocalypselive.com and brendansmall.com
• Next week’s album: Cream – Disraeli Gears (1967)

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Summary prepared for The 500 listeners and music fans curious about The Who Sell Out, its influence, and its place in rock history.

Transcript

[Josh Adam Meyers]

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It's also number 115 out of 500 on the 500. What is up? It is spring and we are getting warmer. Unless you're in the upper states or in Canada. I'll be in Winnipeg. Ooh ooh. You want to talk about where I'm going to be? Who wants to come out and see the one and only moi? Because I am on the road. I'm so excited to go back out on the road, guys. I was just in la. It was so funny. I went to LA being like, oh, it's going to be cold in. It's going to be cold in New York. And as I'm leaving New York, it's 50 degrees, which means it's going to be like 65, 70. And when I get to Los Angeles, it was 98. That was bad. I'll be in Winnipeg April 7th through the 11th at Rumors. Then I'll be in Austin at moontower comedy festival April 15th through the 18th. Atlantic City, the Hook Theater at Caesars April 23rd. It's a big show. Then I'll be at Netflix Fest with the Greek Theater with Jelly Roll. Then Plano, Texas in May, Jimmy Kimmel's Comedy Club in Vegas in May. And then we have Mic Drop in Arizona, Chandler, to be specific, Sacramento, Punchline and Jaloon. Jaloon. Jaloon's a City State and Pittsburgh, July. Tickets are@josh adenmeyers.com Come one, come all. Bring your family. It's a fun game show. It's the thing to do. We're ready to party, guys. Are you ready to party? Because we have a Patreon and that Patreon is calling your name. Patreon.com backslash the 500 podcast. Come support the show. Be a part of the journey. We are chipping away and we've got more episodes to do and the only way to do it is through advertisement and your support. So patreon.com backslash the 500 podcast. If you listen and you can chip in $5 a month, that would be really help. If you can ship in 25, you get some merch. And we appreciate it. Yeah. You want to talk about the band that we're doing today? The Hell sells out. The hell. The who? The who's that? Who the hell and the who. Yeah, I wasn't expecting any of this. I wasn't expecting any of the fake commercials, the chaos. I wasn't expecting a pirate radio broadcast, I'll tell you that. But sometimes you go in with one way of what the album is going to be and then sometimes it's this. But then and not sometimes. All the time. We get an incredible guest because our incredible booker. Code red M. Code red Korean music. Mr. The one, the only Brendan Small. And if you've been living under a rock or you're not into metal, then you might not know what we're talking about. But most people have seen the incredible Metalocalypse on Adult Swim, home videos on Adult Swim. And they're all created by the one and only guitarist, composer, comedian, animator and co creator of Metalopolis. The one, the only Brendan Small. And he's going on tour too, by the way. We're going to be talking about that. If you want to go see Death Clock, which I'm so excited to see them In Brooklyn. They're going to be alongside amon Amarth celebrating 20 years of Metalocalypse. You can get [e-mail] and you can find dates, music and other information about Brendan's work [e-mail] across all social media channels. It is Brendan Small. This is a goody, guys. We're dialing the research, so back in. Thanks to Morty. Thanks to all the people that help. It's really fun. I really hope you guys are digging the show right now because I'm really having a fun time making it and one of these episodes will kind of keep it going. Rate, review, and most Importantly, subscribe to the 500 listen free on all platforms or any way you get your pods. Follow me, Josh Adam Myers on all social media, the 500 podcasts and all. So email the [e-mail], find the Facebook group run by Crazy Evan. And for all things 5 Honey, go to the website the 500podcast.com. All right, everybody get in your parents basement, turn it up and rock and roll to. Here we go with number 115 out of five honey with the who sell out. What did I do first when I got cable, what did I do? Like everybody does, I put on Whose Line is it Anyway? And I let it ride, baby. I did. Hey, dude, I'm so sorry. I'm like. The Internet thing was true, though. I swear to God.

[Brendan Small]

Sure, sure, sure. You don't believe me.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

You don't believe me.

[Brendan Small]

I don't believe you. I believe you. I believe you. How are you doing? My name is Brendan.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Brendan, I'm Josh. It's a pleasure to sit here and talk to you. Can I, can I be straightforward?

[Brendan Small]

Sure, why not?

[Josh Adam Meyers]

I'm not going to name names. Usually I name full names, last names and everything. Me and my buddy. Oh, I can't. I want to say it, Matt. I'll leave it at that. He got me into it back when we used to do a lot of cocaine together in Baltimore. And then when he moved to California and I was living in California, once a year I would get frustrated in my career and I would go to Venice away from everybody and I would party with him for two days and we would watch Metalopolis. We would watch it nonstop because he loved it. He loved it so much. And it really is a great show. And so full circle moment, you know, because I'm high on cocaine right now. If we're gonna do it, let's do this right. So. No, for real, that's that the first part is I'm not on cocaine. Now, obviously I did just get cable, but, well, Internet, Verizon, FiOS. We'll see how it works today. Maybe I'll go back to Spectrum, but. But that, but the first part was true. I am not on coke. But it is a honor to have you here, man.

[Brendan Small]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

How is everything promoted? What are you working on right now? Like, do you have anything that, that you want to shout out right at the beginning? Just.

[Brendan Small]

We're going on tour. Death Clock and Amana Marth and Castle Rat are going on tour in a month. In a month? In April. So we're. It's the 20 year anniversary of Metalocalypse.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

That's crazy.

[Brendan Small]

On a big North American tour. So. With new animation and new stuff and all kinds of extra bells and whistles along the way. But yeah, so that's. So that's. That's where our concentrate of the first half of the year is on this big tour.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

I heard you're going to be animating as you go. So as you're playing guitar, you're also

[Brendan Small]

going to be on that before I've done that. I've been on the road while I've been in production. That was no fun, I'll tell you. That was a little too much.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Did you ever do. Did you ever do that girl Brandi Posey show? Because I'm assuming she might have asked you. She had a show called Picture this and it was like, I think on the east side of like Hollywood. And she'd have comics performing and then have animators and usually ones that like, you know what I'm talking about?

[Brendan Small]

Yeah, I think I did do that one time. I did like, I think I did it one time probably at the Steve Allen Theater. Do you know where that is?

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah. Oh, dude. Well, because I just realized that you were one of the original hosts of the Tomorrow show, the Ron lynch, which I used to get high and go to. Yeah, Ron is, you know, Ron is.

[Brendan Small]

I love Ron. Ron and I go way back. Way back. Yeah. Even before then, back in Boston, he'd come and stay at my house when I lived in Boston. I was doing a show before that called Home Movies and Ron would. Ron would make his way to the east coast and do stand up and make me laugh like crazy and stay at my place. It was hilarious. We just watched TV together. It was so much fun.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Funny enough. Funny enough. Home movies. I used to do ketamine and watch that show. This is all random.

[Brendan Small]

Like I've enabled you throughout your entire life.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Dude, I used to read your sixth grade sociology, social studies papers on weed. The first time I ever did weed. I don't know how I got them, but that's what I did do. That rules, man. And that's what I love about. About when we do this and you actually sit down, you talk to people that you love or you look up to or your fans of whatever it is, and it's just like, oh, man, we're all like, in the comedy world. Everybody knows each other. We're all. We're all one. We're all one Wayne Fetterman away from. Because it would be Kevin Bacon, but it's like, it's Wayne Fetterman in the comedy world.

[Brendan Small]

Yeah, I love. Yeah, Wayne. You know what? It's funny. I hadn't heard from Wayne forever. He just reached out. I think it was like New Year's. He, like, texted me me, and I was like, oh, Wayne, Wayne always. He and I would play music together live.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Dude, he's been on the podcast. If you would have dropped out of the show. Wayne's the guy I go to. Wayne's been on this show more than anybody. Like, it's. It's crazy. And. And. And it's. It's usually we're giving him, like, the deeper cuts, like Professor Long Hair and like Bobby Blue Bland or like some real. Like he did. I think he did every Yardbirds record. But it's always. It's always. He's always the best because I love him to death and occasionally I've blessed him with the record that he really wanted to do. I'm assuming because he's a guitar guy, I'm assuming that he would have been a fan of the who for sure. But before I even get to that, I just want to know, is Ron lynch more of a who fan or more of like a metal fan? Because that's like, what would he be into when it comes to this, you

[Brendan Small]

know, I know one time we played Boy, I. I've made a few different bands play a quick one while he's away before live. And I think one time I made Ron play it with Craig Anton, and we played it live somewhere. The early days of the Tomorrow Show. I've since made other bands play a quick one while he's away because I think that's like. That's the song that changed everything for the who and probably made me such a huge fan of the who was that first song that would eventually turn into Tommy, that would eventually turn into Quadrophenia. And song songs and storytelling. You know what. Pete Townsend. To me. So. So I'm a huge hu. The who fan for that reason. For many reasons, but. But because of the bigger grandiose storytelling ideas. But yeah, I think. Well, I know I made Ron lynch play the whole. But I don't know. I don't know. I think he's probably a bigger who fan than he is a metal fan.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

And I mean, so this is. I mean, obviously the who came out before, like, real metal. I mean, I guess you could say, like, the. The. The crumbles of it are being developed by, like, Black Sabbath and like, Deep Purple are kind of, you know, and Led Zeppelin and all these other things. I mean, who are actually before that. But when they're starting to, you know, this is 67 when this came out.

[Brendan Small]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Well, you know, wait, like, you.

[Brendan Small]

You.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

I. I'm like, how old are you, by the way? Do you mind me asking?

[Brendan Small]

I'm. I'm 51.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Okay, you're 51. We're not far off. So I'm 46. So, yeah, so we pretty much. Because I always, like, was there that big difference? Because I didn't get into the who till later, where I, you know, born in 79. So, though these five years that you and I share in a difference. I remember it was like. I immediately was like, my. My parents, you know, brought me in a little bit with, like, Mamas and the Papas and the Beatles, but. And my dad listened to jazz. But when I first started digging on music, it was like Iron Maiden. And then. And then I slowly just started getting into hair metal where it was like. Because I think I was just an Iron Maiden because I'd go to, like, Waxy Maxi and I would see Eddie up on the Wall and I'd be like, that rules. Because I love Freddy Krueger and I love horror, and that's horror. And then eventually it was Guns N Roses and it wasn't me digging into Led Zeppelin or any. And I would, you know, I'm not putting the who with Led Zeppelin. I think they are similar, but very, very different. But it's just, you know, when going back to music. So was that the difference by being born five years earlier, that the who would have been like your iron. Iron Maiden for me, when you were younger?

[Brendan Small]

I think it's because of cable tv. That's why I know who the who is. And it's because of Tommy being on cable as a kid. And it's Ken Russell, and that's the Reason I'm interested in the who and like Jesus Christ Superstar, these longer form things that would become movies. So I went completely backwards with the who. But I knew that Tommy was such a crazy fever dream of a, of a film. And the music was completely interesting to me. And it was a bit of a kind of a beautiful little wretched nightmare. And this messiah story on top of everything else. It's this, you know, this deaf, dumb, blind kid who becomes this kind of messiah figure and you know, you know, flies a little too close to the sun and has a spiritual elevation at the end. But the music was ridiculous, the visuals were crazy. And I was very interested in longer form storytelling. And that's just. Seriously, I must have been seven years old, six years old when I saw it on TV first. So I had a really strong awareness of Tommy the who. And then much later, probably in my twenties, I started searching out the rest of their catalog. I mean I knew who's next. I knew Tommy, of course, I knew Quadrophenia. But then I'd get into this record, the who Sells out and a quick one around that time. And I saw a quick one and then particularly a song, a quick one while he's away as being this kind of, you know, this eye opening moment that you could have this song cycle turn into a kind of a longer narrative. And I think that's. That was a big part of, you know, the discovery that Pete Down, Pete Townsend made at the time too. And eventually like eyed a bigger piece like Tommy because of what happened. The record before this one, the who Sells Out.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah, we did that. Oh fuck. When did we do that record? It had to be a couple years ago. Who was the guest on that? It was somebody interesting. Alex, will you find out who the guest was when we did that? And it wasn't like everything on there. You know what I love about the well we had? Always take this because I don't want to. I don't want to on anything but. And I want to give it all the respect it deserves. This, I mean, I'll just say this, this isn't my favorite who. Like a quick one. And, and, and this record are not my favorite who. The who that I like is the later, like some of the stuff that you've mentioned already. I do love some of the mod stuff. But for all the listeners out there that haven't dug on the who, or maybe you're just following along from the podcast, which I doubt because everybody that listens to this is generally a 50 year old guy that you know, lives in his basement. And. And I love you guys. I love you to death. You know who I'm talking about? All right, what was it? All right, so 67. Who was the guy who was on Alex.

[Brendan Small]

Which who record? You'd have had several ones was David Wilde. Quadrifilia was Judd Apatow.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Oh, yeah.

[Brendan Small]

My Generation was Eddie Peptone.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

What? I forgot we did that.

[Brendan Small]

Michael Shannon.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

What the. Oh, yeah, dude. He just had a moment. He just did a song with Michael Stipe at. In Brooklyn. Steel. I wish I would have gone to that, man.

[Brendan Small]

I know. My. My old roommate was there. Eugene Merman.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Real. Oh, I saw that. Did he open right?

[Brendan Small]

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think so. Yeah.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah. Dude, you're. You're. You're comedy royalty, dude. You're. You're. You got the deep cuts. You had the Mermans. The fucking.

[Brendan Small]

I were like. He was. Well, we would listen to a lot of music together, by the way, so he had a really eclectic taste and really cares about music a lot and still does. And I think there was, like. I think it was. I think around that time, probably a lot of Kinks were happening. A lot of the who was happening. And, you know, it's funny because I think all these. It's not necessarily comedy music, but there's a lot of sarcasm and humor inside of this stuff, especially this record, too, I think. Who Sell out. And with the Kinks, too. Not that they're the same band, but the fact that they were existing in the same kind of timeline and back at a time where I think this is an interesting record because. Because I went and did a little bit of research trying to figure out where the who was at this point of this record. Yeah, I'm interested. I'm very interested in the who. I'm very interested in Pete Townsend. I really have a huge amount of respect for him because I think the first record, they didn't do as much writing. The second record, they did a little bit more. And then this record is kind of like the make or break moment, where the who's kind of trying to. They're trying to write that single that breaks up into the top 10 or even closer, and they're doing their best. This is a bunch of singles. I think it's kind of brought together by this. This theme of selling out, this theme of commercialism and all that stuff, which is both kind of a joke, but also serious in that apparently Pete Townsend was trying to sell ad space on an actual record to make this record. He actually was Trying to sell ads. And they ended up. Some of them ended up being ads. They did a Coca Cola ad around this time too, I think, too, like one of an advertisement. And then. Yeah, and then it ended up being kind of this past the ash of, you know, advertisements, needle drops in pirate radio, which is a big part of, I guess, how people listen to music back in the uk, back at the time where these boats would. Would hover around the coasts and distribute music to a bunch of teenage people.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

I want to hear some of their

[Brendan Small]

rock and roll music.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Just like, oh, my God, I love this. These black fellows are really good.

[Brendan Small]

And it was still at the time, you know, it's funny to grow up to. I mean, you got to experience this too. You know, the tail end of a musical meritocracy where people would call in and. And request music. And the music that people wanted to hear was the music that made the history and the world and all that stuff.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Wait, wait, wait. Okay. Did you ever call in? Did you ever call. Were you ever a fifth caller?

[Brendan Small]

I grew up. I grew up in the 80s. So music was great everywhere, I thought. I think people were everywhere because of this era, because of what the Beatles were doing in the 60s and because of what the who and because of the Kinks. All these people that were inspired, I think, were led by the Beatles who realized at the time that the best rich written music would be the most popular music. And everyone was just. Just bathed in the glory of good songwriting. And then that inspired all those people in the 70s, from Queen to ELO to everybody else, to up their game and become songwriting aficionados, you know, really, really, like, really write the most beautiful music. And then something happened in the late 80s and it all kind of went away.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

No, no, no, no. In the late 80s. Oh, I thought you were saying that. Because I was just saying the seventies. Almost like, dude, it was. It was. You ever watch the Simpsons when they talk about how Mr. Burns couldn't die because he has every disease trying to get through the door? And it's like they called it Three Stooges Syndrome. It's like they're all. Nothing can kill you because they're all becoming one. And, like, they're stuck. And. And I think that's kind of. Instead of being stuck, I think the. The 70s and everything that you just mentioned from the late 60s and the 70s almost made a funnel into what the 80s became. Because, I mean, you have some of the most melodically beautiful music from Tears for Fears to. To any. Any of the post Punk. Yeah. And, and then, and then even like the, like the, the, like the rock and roll being taken, you know, and this is where I think I'm going to pick you up from what you said is just like the rock and roll being taken from this, like, authentic. You know, even Led Zeppelin became ridiculous with the sausage, you know, with the zoo cucumber in their pants and all that. But with punk and, and the rawness in television and, and all this great shit. You, you get this great shit like Guns and Roses and you get metal like Metallica and you get Slayer and you get, you know, hair metal, but then you also get Motley Crue and. Which I don't hate, by the way. I, I, but, but Motley Crue, I always say, is the, is the epitome of the excess of why Nirvana became the next greatest thing ever, which was because we were just like, you know, Tommy, you know, with, you know, like the girl, like, with her tits out on Sunset Blower, but choice, you know, in back of a limo with a goddamn Jacuzzi in it. So, you know what I'm saying?

[Brendan Small]

It's, it's, you know, it was a time where, I mean, again, this is the 80s. You're talking about Tears for Fears.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

You're talking about one of my favorite bands ever, dude.

[Brendan Small]

Oh, I love Tears for Fears. Yeah. That was the first records I had. And what, what I loved about, especially that sound music is that I think there's such crazy songwriting throughout their entire oeuvre, but also it knew what its place was. And this is. I listened to a really great interview with Michael Beinhorn, who produced Soundgarden Unknown, which I think is one of the greatest records of all time. And he said something that just stuck with me from that interview. It was like Rick Beato, the guitar guy who's on YouTube for guitar nerds like me, he gives great interviews. Michael Beinhorn said, this is a time when the industry knew what it was selling, and at the time, it was an emotional delivery system. And that's what music was. That's what music was from when Pete Townsend was behind the guitar to when Guns N Roses was behind their guitars in the 80s. And then Soundgarden and Nirvana and all those guys, too, they knew what they were selling. And then an era happened where they just stopped kind of understanding what they were giving to people. And the truth was, if you're not. If you don't have an emotional center to whatever it is you're saying, if it's not rage or, you know, or heartache or, you know, whatever. Whatever emotion, you can attribute it to it. If you don't have that in the music, it's not music or it's not for an audience. Maybe it's just something you're doing for yourself to pass the time. But in order for it to be great, it needs to have some. Some moniker of human emotion driving it and giving it to you and making you feel a certain way. So, again, I think about Tears for Fears. There's moodiness throughout the entire library of what they did. This. This record, too. The who sell out there. There are a lot of different moods throughout this record as well, that I think it's funny looking a little bit closer. I realize that there are a lot of these songs are, you know, sarcastic or comedic, but there are some really kind of beautiful songs inside of this record, too. It's really great. Just. Just a bunch of singles, I think, that. That come out of this record.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

You were talking about what they were going through, like, what else is. Let's talk about what's going on in music when this came out, because in the world, you've got the Vietnam War escalating. You got the Summer of Love in full bloom. This is the best counterculture is ever going to be. This is like the hippies. There's no. I mean, STDs. Everybody's psychedelic. Yeah. I can't even say it. Psychedelia is going mainstream. And in music, you've got Sgt. Pepper redefining.

[Brendan Small]

Doesn't come out yet, though. Right.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Well, let me see. This came out. This came out in 67.

[Brendan Small]

Right.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

So December 67. And then let me type in Sergeant Pep. Sergeant Pepper's loudly hots Club Bad. You Dirty mother. Oh, this came out before. So this came out maybe so. And this and our album came out in December. So that's enough time for them to be like, what the. Dude, they were chucking out albums back then. Dude, you could have a double lp. And dude, the Beatles did the White Album in. In seven hours.

[Brendan Small]

Ridiculous. It's ridiculous how creative everybody was and how the Beatles, what, in six or seven years, completely changed the landscape of music. They changed themselves physically, mentally. They changed everything in that amount of time. It's. It's ridiculous. It's.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

It is ridiculous. But that's what I'm saying is that you have. So that means Pet Sounds has come out. That means sergeant Peppers has come out and you have. Go ahead.

[Brendan Small]

When did that come out? What year does Sergeant Peppers come out then?

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Sergeant Pepper is. Is 67. May of 67. This came out in December. Of 67. Yeah. So, so you get five months, five, six months. Well, what's the math? Five, seven months on that. And also Jimi Hendrix, he's blowing minds. You got Pink Floyd, they're going full psychedelic. They've, they've got, they still doing the, the Sid Barrett. So Piper's at the gates and all that cool stuff. And, and so basically I, I guess the only way to put this is like where the arms race of the 80s is, is in full bloom. This is the concept albums, arms race. This is the, this is. And, and, and so the who are competing not just with bands, but they're competing with basically what the idea of

[Brendan Small]

what to hear Pete Townsend say it in several interviews, he mentions the fact that a quick one, the song A Quick one while he's away managed to get Paul McCartney's attention. And Paul McCartney said, Hey, I think there's something here in this. Because it's what, six or seven songs all knitted together into one piece. Because they had, because on a quick one they had an extra 10 minutes they needed to fill on the record. They had about, you know, like probably 35 minutes of a record and they had an extra 10 minutes. They said, you need to put something together, write a 10 minute song. Pete Townsend says, 10 minute song, are you crazy? And then the producer says, we'll stitch a bunch of 2 minute, 50 second songs together and tell a story. And so Pete Townsend does it. And then Paul McCartney says, okay, there's something going on here. I don't know what led you to this song cycle idea. Of course, people have been telling stories in song, long form since, you know, I guess Rodgers and Hammerstein, since before, since Gilbert and Sullivan, since like, you know, since the, you know, since the Italians and opera and everything. But Pete Townsend says, so Paul McCartney says this about my song. And then they turn around and they put out sergeant Peppers. The Beatles do. So he thinks, he says, I'm not saying I had a direct influence on sergeant Peppers, but this is the story that happened. So I think he thinks that maybe there was a little bit of interplay between the Beatles and being influenced by the who.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

And then I don't think anybody, sorry not to cut you off, but I don't think anybody that's in music and popular, making popular, popular music at the time or rock and roll there everybody is, is like competing. Yeah, you have to be, it's like you have to be, by the way, not to go. But was there anybody? Because it makes you if, especially if it's a friendly, you know, like, thing. I've seen so many comedians like Angelo Bowers and Gerard Carmichael, the two guys from my class that were both already had a voice at the open mics. They both, oh, I'm gonna see you can write that joke. I'm gonna write this. Burr. I talk to him all the time. He said him and Patrice. Was there someone. Was there a comedian? Whether it was on, was it. Whether it was like in. In sketch or stand up or, or in. In, you know, in animation, is there someone that you've kind of had a friendly competition with throughout the years? Maybe they don't even know it that I had.

[Brendan Small]

I mean, just with guitar. Growing up in, in my little hometown, my, my good friend is still my good friend today. We've been in a, a long standing guitar battle where he started playing longer, earlier than I did, and he taught me my first chords. And then from that point on, when I was 14 years old, as he was showing me everything from, you know, King diamond to Slayer to, you know, Yngwie Malmsteen to, you know, all these guitar greats, he was showing me how to play this stuff. And then the whole fight was, I'm going to supersede you at guitar. And he's. And he would say, no, you are not. So every time I would leave his house, I would be practicing and so would he. So next time we'd meet up, we'd see who was kind of the. Who had like the higher ground. And we kept on. And we've been keeping this battle going on for a long time, so it's sometimes really important. But in this era, I think about some of my favorite bands, like Queen, where truthfully, the way that they would get out of tax debt was by having like, whoever in the band would be the owner of the single, right? So if it's, you know, John Deacon or Roger Taylor or Freddie Mercury or Brian May, one of those geniuses would compete against one of these other geniuses to have the best song that we would listen to. We would all benefit from this major inside competition, you know, that each band was having Lennon McCartney. George Harrison's saying, I've got to write a song that beats not just Paul McCartney, but John Lennon and Paul McCartney, because they have two votes and I have one. So now I gotta beat them with my songs. So this competition that happens throughout, you know, with bands competing with each other versus bands inside of the band, you know, the people inside of a band competing against one another, we end up being the major beneficiaries of that. And that doesn't really happen, you know, in the same kind of way where I think. I mean, this record too. I think this is another one of those records where just like, you know, the Rolling Stones, everyone was. Had stopped paying taxes because they couldn't afford to. They couldn't afford to pay taxes and be artists because they weren't. They were all kind of in. In the red with their projects and. And this. And to hear Pete Townsend say it, this record was no different. They had. They were in the red. They need to borrow money, which is why they went into studios and. And cut a bunch of jingles, because that's how they would get paid to. To find studio time. So this whole kind of piece kind of shining a light on advertising. This they're experiencing.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah, this is also. I mean, he's already kind of established his dominance, I think, from, you know, noticing. I mean, I know, like, and. And I'm gonna. His name up. Entwistle wrote some stuff off of the. The previous record. And I mean, if I went. I don't remember every. You know, I do know that, that. That Pete has had basically control, but he is really developing, like, serious artistic ambition now. Now where he's like, this is where he's. Because Keith Moon is just partying. This is like the chaos is starting to escalate. You know, from everything I read, he's got the cars in the pools. There is a tension, I think, between art versus pop success that they're all suffering because Daltry is also, you know, he's. He's an attractive man. He's asserting himself as the front man, but it's like, how do you. How do you do that transition? Like. Like, for you, like, what would be. Where would you say your. Your transition between mod icon to, like, album artist was in your career?

[Brendan Small]

I don't know if I've had that transition, but I think from the very early on, I was. Well, you were talking about, like, me. I had. My roommate was Eugene Mirman. So he's so incredibly creative. And he had. He jumped on stage already having a voice and having a really strong. Really being a strong writer, being a very creative person. And I thought, you know, I'm looking at stand up and I'm looking at all these avenues, and I'm thinking, I don't know what I'm going to do with stand up. I know it's really important that I'm here. I know it's important that I'm kind of Appreciating that an audience is right here too. And I think a lot of people that are storytellers or writers don't necessarily get this experience where you say something and they're either reacting or they're not. Right.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah.

[Brendan Small]

And I would see comedians go up and do music. I'd see people drag an acoustic guitar on stage and do song parodies and they would always make me laugh. But I thought if I'm going to do something with music and comedy, I'm gonna have to make it a lot more complicated. And it's gonna take a lot of me sitting by myself in a studio with a guitar around me and a typewriter open too at the same time. And I figured I'd see. I kind of saw the future for myself and I thought, this is going to be very complicated. I'm going to spend a lot of hours by myself. And I was right. And that's kind of, that's, that's where I am now. So I did a lot of that stuff, I guess. Metalocalypse was started 20 years ago and that's where I really put myself on the spot to write lots and lots of music. We would eventually end up doing a rock opera completely inspired by the who. We did like with a 50 piece orchestra and, and then do a feature and. But, but ultimately use music to tell story.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Talking about you keep going.

[Brendan Small]

Yeah. When I was seven years old, I saw Tommy and Jesus Christ Superstar on cable. And that's, that's where the whole thing started for me.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

So. So speaking of. On just the words selling out, like what was harder to sell, home movies or Metalocalypse?

[Brendan Small]

I think they were both actually pretty easy to sell because there was a real need for animation. So home movies happened in 99. Right. So that's when the whole world discovered between South park and Seth MacFarlane and, and you know, the Dr. Katz world and all that stuff, that animation could be done cheaply, could be done affordably. And we were in that super cheap, affordable little window. And so we were ready and we had the means to do so. And we cut a pilot that kind of, that was deficit financed by a little company, you know, just outside of Boston. So, so that was. And then, and then I kind of understood what the, you know, we were on upn, didn't last very long, didn't find its audience. And then this thing saved our ass, which was called the Adult Swim. And the Adult Swim was like, we're doing this bridge between kind of the kids world and the adult world. And we think home movies would be a good kind of place to. Right at the very beginning where the kids meet the adults. And so we did it for a long time and not until it was canceled did it really find an audience. So we were just making episodes that we thought were interesting and fun and stuff that we were very interested in, stories that we were interested in telling. And then Metalocalypse and then an opportunity came after that show and I thought, you know, I've proven to the guys at Adult Swim that I could write music quickly on the spot. I have. You know, I went to music school. That's where I. That's. That's where I started out at Berkeley College of Music. While I was there, I started taking, you know, writing for television classes at Emerson College. So I thought, I'm not sure my brain is just dragging my body to and fro. I'm interested in these things. I don't know what's going to come of any of it. So yeah, Metalocalypse happened and I thought, okay, it's time for me to get reacquainted with my guitar and tune it down and you know, start programming some drums and start putting the whole idea together. So I saw an opportunity, I saw a clear path with Metalocalypse and I saw, you know, a subject matter that wasn't kind of any being talked about anywhere else, which is just the heavy metal consumerism, masculinity and then ultimately regurgitating kind of a nightmare landscape that I would take back into the people.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah, I mean, can I. What now, now, now speak. Going off selling. But like what was more fun to cast? I have to think it's got to be Metalopolis because. Because, because home movies is just all your friends. It's just. Which is great. Which is great to be able to give Paula Poundstone. I mean what we had her on the show. One of my favorite stand up specials of my life is that to be what you were one of the early people to get H. John Benjamin, you know, the voice where he owes you a career. Dude, that dude owes you.

[Brendan Small]

He doesn't. Because he's. He's really like one of the. I think he's one of the really great improvisers and just solid.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah, he's not for sure.

[Brendan Small]

It's really like. It really is that he's like a great writer that's also a great performer and that home movies would really see who could, who could really add to the character. And. And John Benjamin was also from Dr. Cat. So basically I was the new. I was. I was 23 when I did the pilot. So I was just. I was just like. I got very lucky. Lauren Bouchard saw me on a night with Ron lynch and Louis C.K. back in Boston on one of the off nights that I was actually funny. And I was doing, like, a whole story driven kind of sketch with a character that would change drastically by the end. And so they're like, oh, storytelling and then getting the audience going. So I was the kid who had a lot more to prove. John Benjamin had already proven himself. And Jonathan Katz, who I think is like another super genius, was part of the show. Just seriously one of the. One of the smartest brains I'd ever met. And then hanging out where they were making Dr. Katz at the time. I got to see so many great comedians and meet people from Mitch Hedberg to Tom Leopold, who I think is a really funny dude who was back on other shows that the same company was doing. And so I got to kind of like, you know, cast people who didn't really know me. I was just kind of up and coming. So we'd get the Andy Kindlers, the Emo Phillips's. You said Paula Poundstone, who is like a ridiculous genius who is on the show. She'd get replaced by Janine DiTullio, who is another ridiculous genius. So I was around smart people who are really funny, who really understood the rules of improv, which was just yes and. And complete the story and keep going forward. Don't negate. It's really simple. Maintain your character. Like, stuff like that. For some reason, all that stuff kind of made sense to me. And then on top of that, I would get to experiment with music and start telling story with music, because I could. Because I had an unfair advantage over the other comedians that weren't musicians. I could just pick up a guitar or a piano and knock out some chords and put, like, a project together. And to me, it was really clean and simple. Thanks to music school, because all I did at music school was study composition.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah.

[Brendan Small]

You know, study, like, performance live and stuff. But it was like, what chord goes where? Why does this. Like, I'd analyze a song that I love from the who or from Queen or from, you know, any pop and go, why are these chords making my ears go aha? And I would just. Cat. I just pull them onto a bag and just go, I'm gonna use these all later on.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Brendan Small]

When I'm asked to write something very quickly, I'm gonna keep all these tricks to myself. And. And eventually, you know, employ them all. But, yeah, some of that is like studying. I remember taking guitar classes and I remember taking in Van Halen things. And my guitar cheats are going, you know where Eddie Van Halen got this, right? These chords over here. That is 100 Pete Townsend. Let's go back to Pete Towns. And yeah, so we would go back to find the animal ology of. Find the etymology of. Of, you know, why a modern guitar player was doing something that, you know, an early guitar player discovered, and why we're all just ripping each other off. So all that stuff was really exciting to me. So I was studying comedy, I was studying music. Home movies and Metalocalypse are both about kind of these creative families, right? One of them is making movies, one of them is making music. One of them are children acting like adults. One of them is adults acting like children. So I wanted to make sure that the tones were 100% different, that you didn't know they were coming from the same person and give them each their own kind of audience. And sometimes the crazy thing is I go and I meet people in the heavy metal world and they go home movies. Home movies, home movies. So it's. It's fun to see that any of that stuff kind of landing ends with creative people.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Always, dude, always the music that, like, people look at me and they like, oh, you probably love, you know, and I do love hard rock and I love metal, but it's like my, you know, I love the fucking. The ink spots, you know, you know, if I didn't tell, like, I love, you know, Claire de Lune, like, that's my fate. Some of my favorite music is, Is, you know, is. Which I've talked about a million times on this podcast. I'm not going to bore everybody but Stardust, Nat King Cole, that's. I love the old crooners as much as I love. And I think most people that come, you know, if you. I mean, I bet if you talk to the people in Cannibal Corpse, you're going to be like, did I, you know, put on the Four Freshmen? Like, I can't. I can't sing like that. But God damn, it's like, I love the harmonies and, you know, it's, It's, It's. It's great. And I think, you know, when especially you come from, you know, the, The. The music composition too, it's just knowing about beats and knowing. It's like you just understand almost. It must have helped just writing immediately. It was like, because there's like such a. It's all the same. It's just like.

[Brendan Small]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think. Well, I think I watch movies, and I think, what is cinema? To me, it's really good music being played over, really great action. Really? Yeah. And I about, like, moments in movies where that word from Lawrence of Arabia to, you know, Empire Strikes Back, where music aids to kind of penetrate your pineal gland in that, you know, and then hypnotize you into believing the world that you're in. So when I think about, you know, what the most dreamy kind of moments in film, I always go back to Empire Strikes Back. I really think it's one of the most gorgeous dreams. That's romantic, that's tragic. And the music is telling me the whole story. If you turn off all the dialogue, you're gonna hear the core of every single character. Because I think John Williams really telegraphed the wants in need of every character. The longing of Han Solo and Princess Leia in that movie of Luke, and the tragedy of him confronting his father. All that crazy stuff is in there. So I think that stuff is really great. I think it's hypnotic. I think it's the ultimate aid to storytelling is music. And if you have two characters look at each other and you play the right cue, we're gonna be inside of their souls, inside of their hearts, and that's a wonderful thing. So even though I'm doing brutal death metal and stuff like that, I'm also thinking about those things. Like, what is inside of that? What is the. Like. Is this music to get into a fight to? Is this music to fall in love to? Is this music to brood to? Is this music you know what to go into battle? You know, all those things? There are so many different kinds of music that. And the other great thing is all these guys that you're talking about, from Cannibal Corpse to Metallica, they all listen to eclectic things. They have a big crazy that is inspiring to them. You're allowed to love David Bowie and you're allowed to love Cannibal Corpse and keep them in the same mix if you want to, because they contradict each other so wonderfully that your ear is always excited. I think as a creative person, it's my job to be inspired musically, comedically, as a storyteller, as a writer, as an actor, as all those things. And so I'm always mining the world for anything that can cite me, anything. And if I get lucky enough through Apple Music to learn a new composer, like someone who's like, oh, it's the bastard son of Wagner and Stravinsky over here. That's interesting. I'll find someone like that and I'll just go, wow, what a discovery and what a gift. And I'm going to be sitting with this, and I'm going to be inspired by it, and it's going to make me want to play my guitar or sit behind a piano or whatever it is. I think the same thing about Pete Townsend. I really put Pete Townsend really high up on. On the level of composers because, yes, the first record, not much composition. The second record, John Entwistle is doing some stuff. He's really adding. And like you said, Roger Daltrey wasn't real. I was amazing. Okay, have you seen the Kids Are all right? I think that's the documentary with the who, right?

[Josh Adam Meyers]

No, I haven'. I have it. I don't. Dude, I. I know. I know enough. Like, I've between research, talking to one of my writers, Morty. I've never seen the documentary. I know about it. I. Trust me, I do want to watch it. I wish I would have watched it before this, though.

[Brendan Small]

Well, one of the important scenes in this, in that documentary is that they finished smashing their. Their instruments. They're on a chat show, and the whole band is kind of seated together on the ground, and the host is interviewing them, and he says to them, I bet you guys. Well, you know, you're the who at this point. It's probably like even later in the 60s, and they're saying, you guys must be rich. And they all kind of like. You realize they're seated where Pete Townsend's alone, and Entwhistle and Moon and Daltrey are kind of off to the side a little bit. And they all point to Pete Townsend. They go, well, he's the one that's rich. And they go, well, why are you rich? And he goes, because I write all the music. And they go, why do you write all the music? He goes, cause no one else will. And at some point, you realize that this guy is the. And to me, I saw that young enough where I thought the frontman isn't writing the lyrics. I couldn't believe that Roger Daltrey wasn't the composer of the Things he was saying because the Beatles taught him that they wrote their own music. And that was a big deal. Right? So following suit to the Beatles, yeah, Pete Townsend kind of took over the who around this era and continued with Tommy, which is directly on the heels of this. And to me, Tommy is the thing where everyone. Everyone's brain exploded. And they said I could. I can't believe you can do a whole record with one. Not just a concept album, but a full story where you're taking. A boy is born and at the end, he's. He's touched the. The gods by the end, you know, so it's like a full. A full thing.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

And here and where. I will say that Tommy, in my opinion, is a 100, a masterpiece and an incredible record. And there are, you know, I mean, good God, there's so many different songs on it that are. Are, you know, a huge part of the who's career. I just. And I have to be honest, I just didn't get this record as much as I was hoping it, really. I. I hate to say this. I'm not putting this down. So please don't think to everybody I'm not on it. It's one of those discussions where. That I have with Wayne or Morty when we do our Patreon, which is like, did this deserve to be on there? And I know why it does, because without this, you're not going to get to the who doing that. Do you know what I mean? This is a. This is that bridge, you know. Well, go ahead. Go ahead.

[Brendan Small]

Yes, it is. I agree. First of all, I think. I disagree in that I do think the strength of each individual song is very powerful. I mean, just starting the record out with Armenia City, City in the sky, which isn't. Which is, again, it's the last time we'll hear a who record with a song that isn't written by the who. I think this is the last time it happens. But that's the one song that isn't written by them. And then we go to Marianne with a Shaky Hand, by the way. I just think that's a beautiful song. And only until, I think yesterday when I was researching for this podcast that we're doing today, did I find out that's a song about masturbation, which is like, I guess Pictures of Lily also is a song about masturbation. Rock n Roller many. I mean, what are rock and roll kids gonna do? Sit at home and masturbate? So why not Great music for them to masturbate to. This is one of those songs. So, you know, and in this song, Marianne with the Shaky Hands, it sounds like we're at a dance, and it sounds like we're dancing with a bunch of girls. And each one of them has a skill, but no one has a skill like Marianne, who has shaky hands and what they do to A man. That's the story of that one. So I was like this beautiful song, the Shoe Gazy. Beautiful song that sounds about. It sounds like a love lost teenage. Falling in love with a girl is really about trying to get someone.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

It's a hidden joke. I mean, but, but how do you do that? Like, how would you. How do you balance immature, you know, humor with. With real musicianship? Like, do you. Because it's like that's all we're ever trying to do is not beat him over the head with the dildo. Just know that the dildo's in the room.

[Brendan Small]

You know, that's. That's most of what rock and roll like from every. Every band is either like, you know, Pearl Jam, 10cc, they're all related to come masturbation.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Really.

[Brendan Small]

Everything is like. It's. It's all inside of there, I think. Well, with heavy metal. Heavy metal is great because you can. You can have the architecture of complete total straight line and then you can, you can breathe life into. You can act like a straight line character. You can act like, you know, like a, like a, like a straight person and say the most kind of devastating, brutal shit that is meant to be comedic. And you can get both sides kind of working for you in that. You can get the brutality, you can get like the, the rage, the get into a fight kind of. And you can also get comedy that is kind of. If you do it the right way, if you, you show your hand a little too much, you may. The whole thing can dissolve. But I think if you. Right in that pocket. If I'm. I'm being very serious here, I think you can get, you can get away with it. And that's kind of what these guys are doing. I think the Kinks are doing this in the, in the same era too, where they're being really sarcastic and playing it very, very straight. So I think Marianne with the Shaky Hands is a straight song. Talking about something that's not so straight. It's very silly really. And it continues on this record too. It continues with the next song, which is Odorano, which is a fake deodorant.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah. But if it also becomes a tragic opera though.

[Brendan Small]

Yeah, it's a real tragedy, which is really funny.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

But yeah, she smells bad and she misses love because it's crazy. Like

[Brendan Small]

someone who smells bad and ruins their life because they don't have the right deodorant.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Which by the way. Let me take a second, everybody, and I'm going to do one of my front facing Instagram videos about It. Go out into the world. Put some cologne on, at least deodorant, please. If you're in. If you're in the middle of nowhere, like Salisbury, Maryland, where you get in a car, you never see people, then who gives a fuck? But if you're in a city like New York or like Philadelphia or L A, people are in the cars. No L. A, I'll throw it in there. If you're going out in public, you're going to be around people. At least wear deodorant, because some of y' all are smelling like, straight. But. Okay, back to the. Back to the podcast.

[Brendan Small]

Back to the podcast. Back to the podcast. Thank you for that.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

I have cologne for morning, noon, and night and gym.

[Brendan Small]

Listen to Odorano and. And hear what can happen if you don't smell good. You can really ruin your life. Yeah, so that's on there, too. So I think these are funny songs inside of there. I think Pete Townsend has a really good sense of humor, by the way, you know? So I think they're all trying to cover the fact that they're making jokes by making such beautiful music. Okay. Not only that, I can hear that Pete Townsend's, like, kind of zeroing in on what the chords of Tommy are gonna be throughout this record. So I hear this as being a total predecessor. There's in, like, the bigger, more expanded versions of this record. You get to hear a song that's tucked down later called Real. I believe that's how it's pronounced. But there's a part one, and then the other two got cut because it was him really experimenting with a bigger song structure, a bigger song cycle, song form that would be kind of closer to Tommy. And what you end up hearing are the interludes of Tommy inside of this record that are completely 100. The same kind of chord hits, the same kind of spacing, all that stuff.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

It's all, if this. If track 13, real or rail. Yeah, it's R, A, E, L1 and 2. If that is the. Is that is the crumbs to Tommy. What would be the crumbs to Metalocalypse? Was there. Was there a thing that you did that you were like, yeah, because you mentioned stuff. But I was like, but what are the crumbs? The real crumbs? You're like, this is something I got to develop because this is fucking rad.

[Brendan Small]

Well, I was. You know, it was funny because there I was a music school student who kind of tucked his guitar away and said, listen, I don't know what I'm going to do with you? Right now I'm going to follow this comedy thing. I'm taking comedy classes. Getting me on stage.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

What did people say about that? I mean, I can assume because, dude, I was so much like you in high school, where it was like, I'm very good at music, but I also wanted to be funny. And people were like. And I had my own morning, you know, TV show every Friday, and the morning announcements. And then I was like, well, I'm in a band. They're like, you're not doing comedy. And I was like, I like music. I'm better at music. And they're like, all right, well, you're pretty funny. And I'm so. It's. Yeah. Did people give you that, like, dude, you're so good at guitar. What the are you doing?

[Brendan Small]

Yeah, I mean, that was. Well, that was the thing. So. So when I got into this, this class, this writing class where I was like, you know, meant to kind of like one of them was writing for tv or I would end up with a Seinfeld spec script at the end of this, you know, this semester. And then another one was, you know, writing sketch comedy stuff because I loved Monty python, I loved SCTV, and I loved Mr. Show. So I was like, sketch comedy, to me is like pinnacle stuff. So. So I was taking that class which would eventually get me on stage. But I noticed I was a music school major in a. In a, in a, in a classroom with. With writing majors. So it made me really competitive. And I thought, okay, well, again, meritocracy. That's the great thing about comedy. You're either gonna get laughs or you're not. And we would read our pieces in front of the classroom and I would just go like, okay, who's getting the most laughs and who's doing something that's more surprising? Who's doing something more creative? And I'd say, I'm gonna try to beat all these students and I'm gonna try to be a better writer than them for all those reasons. So. So I had something to prove. I was very competitive and I wanted to be the teacher's pet. Really. Like, that was my. That was my. And also I was. I was just like, you don't have to just like one thing. You can like comedy and you can like music. And ultimately, the way I look at everything is from being a writer to an actor to musician is that it's all some kind of timeline based storytelling. So it's all the same thing as far as I'm concerned. Some of it you can really cheat with and really get the point across home with. That's where music comes in, where I can just, I can tailor your mood. I can start hypnotizing you with mood, you know, and that's, that's something that comedy can't do on its own. I mean, comedy can do it, I think. I think so many comedians in one way or another are either slowing down their tempo, speaking in contoured, elegant, kind of like, you know, or like think about Emo Phillips with all the things he does to get a joke going. He's got. He's a brilliant writer, he's one of the greatest writers. But he's also hypnotizing you with this slide whistle voice where it's going up and down and up and down, and all of a sudden you're kind of in this kind of whimsical place where you don't notice the joke is happening. And then you get walloped and smacked alive by this punchline. And I think a lot of great comedians do that where they really are hypnotizing you with rhythm, with speaking like a preacher. When Chris Rock goes on stage and start speaking in a tempo where all of a sudden you're just. I'm locked into this, this place where a comedian can start telling me jokes and I don't know they're happening. And I'm surprised even more by a well written joke because somebody is hypnotized through cadence, through speaking, through rhythm, all that stuff. It's not something, it's something that people don't talk about. But Ron lynch we're talking about, he's got all that stuff. He has hypnosis inside of him. And it really is a great way to fool someone into laughing harder.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah.

[Brendan Small]

And it's a character. So I don't know where I started with this thing, but that's. These are all little just theories.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

That was, that was, that was the thing about that was going from comedy, well, from music to comedy. But, but, but, but then. And then also though, and you know, if you will, I was so like, I want to still know what that. Those little, those little breadcrumbs for Metalopolis were. That would be the. It would be the track 13 on this record. That would be. Then what got you to say, oh, I can. This is a thing.

[Brendan Small]

Oh, you know, it all. It all was like. It was all kind of hidden inside of home movies. So at one point I think we had a guitar, like it was an electric guitar sitting around. There's like a Telecaster that was sitting in the studio. And we had a little sans amp, which is like back in those days before, like, all this crazy digital technology. You had to have, like, some kind of a special thing to even make your guitar get recorded onto speakers without turning up an amp and miking it, you know? So there was a sans amp, and I had a guitar, and it had enough distortion where I was playing like, Ozzy. Ozzy, like, Crazy Train or something. And we started going, like, what if Brendan's character had a friend that was a little bit older that was basically me when I was 14, a mushmouth, shoegazing guitar nerd who liked heavy metal? And that kind of. We kind of got to Trojan Horse this character inside of the series. So I had an excuse to make a little bit more music. And then I realized I could tell a story and make people remember the episodes just a little bit better if I had music inside of the show. And I thought, that's the thing. If you can make TV not feel a little disposable and make it feel a little bit more memorable, then I think you're on the road to something. And so by the time. And then someone at Adult Swim asked me to write some music for a show called Perfect Hair Forever. And I thought, okay, this is an opportunity to show them how quickly and how interestingly I can write music. They need it. By the end of the day, I'm going to give them something that I think should be pretty interesting and exciting. So I remember going, okay, I've got one day to do something for these other guys. If I can impress them, I bet you that I'll get back to the head of the network and then I can pitch this other show about heavy metal. Then the task was, in this show, metalocalypse, can I write original music every single episode and try to have a special moment like I would in those home movies episodes, that would make it get stuck in the audience's head. Until next week, where I give you something else to get stuck in your head and hopefully almost like a courting system or I want you to be thinking about me when we're not together. And that's what I was thinking about with Metaloclave. So it was somewhat Machiavellian and strategic, but music was my aid, and that's. And then, you know, then you've got characters and you've got all this stuff and little bits, and then, you know, little, like, inside of this episode. Here's a set piece that should be memorable. Just comedy Wise. Yeah, Characterism. That should be memorable. So we were thinking in terms of like, how do I keep you? And I was like watching the audience react to it.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Sure.

[Brendan Small]

This is working. That's working. Okay, good. Now, now, now, at the end of the season, hopefully I can compile all this music, elongate them into full length songs and put out a record. And if I do that, can I tour with animation? Well, is that possible? Yes, it is. Let's go to the Gorillaz. And then we like. I rent on, you know, old Netflix, you know, the little paper Netflix things. I'd rent Gorillaz concert and go, okay, how are they doing? What can I afford? What can I afford? Okay, I like this. They're behind a scrim. I think they should be in front of the scrim. They. They would later change that. What can I do? And so I would start experimenting 20 years ago, which leads us to now where we're still doing the same thing. We've upped our live show like crazy. It is a bigger, more bold experience and we are doing exactly what I think is important, which is telling story and using music at the same time and hypnotizing with brutality.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

And I love that you said about the leave that little. It's almost like you go to a fancy restaurant. You go to like one park Madison out here, one Madison park, and they give you. You spend like $700 a person. the end, they some granola to take with you, and you're like, I got my granola. Yeah, dude, that rules. And it's like, I feel like I got more out of it. And I. And I agree with what you're saying about having the song in there, because Tenacious D, when that came out in 1999, 98, dude, I watched that. Those HBO shows and yeah, they were funny, but it was the music that I kept listening to over Jesus Ranch. I listened to a million times over and over and over because they wrote great songs, you can't deny it.

[Brendan Small]

And performed them gorgeously too. Between, you know, between the two of them, they had beautiful voices and still do and. And really cool songs with really good taste, you know, and. And they didn't have to be that good, but it really is cool that they were that good.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

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[Brendan Small]

Yeah, and. And they built characters and story and all that stuff. So, yeah, Tenacious D, without a doubt, is an inspiration as well. And all the stuff that was happening on Mr. Show where I thought it was really, really like, here's a bunch of people in competition with one another. Who's going to be the funniest? Who's going to have the best sketch inside of this thing? We're all young, we're all filled with rage, and we're all in competition, direct competition. Brian Posein. And there's Bob Odenkirk and there's David Cross and there's, you know, the Paul F. Tompkins, and all these people that are really, really funny in direct competition with one another. And who benefits? We do. The audience does.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah, we do. And. And I mean, and you also, what a great network, too. Like, HBO is like New Holly. HBO in like, the 90s, like the mid to late 90s, was like New Hollywood in the 70s where they were like, all right, let's try some. Let's try some different shit. Let's give these young hot guys, even with Adult Swim too. I mean, it's the same shit where they're like, yo, let's give these animators, let's give these comedians, they get some great. Let's give him a couple hundred thousand dollars for a season, maybe a little more, maybe a little less. And let's let them have fun and see what they create. And, I mean, dude, south park did that and. And the Fox. Fox did it there. They had their new Hollywood moment early on with Tracy Ullman. And, yeah, by the way, I sat next to her during Oasis at Wembley Stadium. Yeah. And I remember, I was like, oh, did you. Are you getting some of the Simpsons money? She goes, I get a little. Little bit. I'm like, all right, just a little bit.

[Brendan Small]

She's like, I'm trying to listen to Oasis. She's like, I don't want to talk about finances.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Well, we were great seeds, by the way. They were the Tracy Oldman scene. So she was sitting on a base. She was literally on the base cabinet. Just on stage. Like the legs kicking it. No, I, I, I, I think that when you take the risk, when you have with something, we can bring it back this to the, to the who. Where it's like the who have already done a few records and this is their first, fourth album. This is their third. Okay. Yeah. Well, I mean it's so funny because you have the US chronolog chronology and then you have the UK one. So going by the UK one for sure. It's, I think it's, it's the, it doesn't make a difference. What I'm trying to say is this is where you start taking risks. Now I want us to talk about the case between this record being genius and then where I, I am starting to. I lay on the side of it. I don't want to say the word. I don't want to say the word annoying. I just think there's more bad on this than there is good. I, what's good is amazing on this. So don't get me wrong. But I just. The commercials and stuff, it's, it's almost like listening to a hip hop record and hearing too many sketches. Like, you're just like, all right, Biggie, get to the every. There's got to be a goddamn play before, you know, you sing 10 crack commandments. Just do the song. And I'm. And, and I think, look, I think in the case for it being genius and stop me and correct me and defend or add to any of this, I think that you got to look at the timeline in 67. This is a big deal. This is nobody's doing satire of advertising inside a rock record. You know, they, and like they didn't write just songs. They, they built that whole fake radio station, the pirate radio station. That's world building. That's like Proto Concepts.

[Brendan Small]

It's also songs for the deaf a little bit too.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah.

[Brendan Small]

You know. Yeah, there's a lot of. I think the who sells out inside of that record, which I think is like just a ridiculously great record. 100 such great music throughout.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

But, but, but, but Brendan, that, that's the thing though is that you mentioned a record that has sketches, but God Damn it has 14. I mean like, I'd say like, let's say 10. I don't even. 14. There might be 14 tracks on the record. That's one of my favorite Queens of the Stone Age records. It's, but dude, there's like 10, you know, first you giveth. No one knows Song for the Dead Sky Is Falling I mean, that's. These are just the ones that are off the top of my head ever almost. You know, it's just another love. So, I mean, there's. There's so much good on that. Where, in my opinion, I just think. I think there's, like, three good. Three really good songs on here. One of them being. One of them being, like, phenomenal and one of the greatest songs the band's ever written.

[Brendan Small]

Which is. Which is.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

I Could Go For Miles yeah, I

[Brendan Small]

can see for miles yeah, I can

[Josh Adam Meyers]

see for miles yeah, I. I think. I think there's. I think there's the. I think the case, you know, more case for Genius is that. That they're doing this to. They're doing this layered irony. Decades before irony even became, like, oxygen. You know, they're. They're on a major label, they're mocking things just as much as they're promoting stuff. And this is all on vinyl, so this is like punk before being punk. And. And then I Can See For Miles is an absolute monster. We don't need to go into that. This is the blueprint for Tommy.

[Brendan Small]

Which is. Which is. Yeah, it's the blue. Yeah, it is the blueprint for Tommy. And that is a song that, I guess Pete Townsend thought, I've got a hit here and I will use it. It's almost like Break Glass In Case of Emergency. I've got this hit sitting here. Do I put it on this record? Do I save it for the next one? What do I do? And, yeah, let's put it on this one. And it didn't achieve number one status. It achieved, like, number nine. It broke the top 10. But that, like, even climbing up to one, that's the big pay grade difference between, like, am I going to be able to pay my taxes this year or aren't I? And that was. And so I think he was disappointed. This band was also, like. I. I think, you know, I. I saw another. A recent interview, maybe it was like, during the pandemic with, like, Apple Music and Pete Townsend and Roger Daltrey. And Roger Daltrey, I think, was let go from the who and was back in on a trial basis. No way. It was, like, out in 65 and kind of like, we're not sure if we're keeping you or not around this time. And that's. So it was not like, one full big kind of idea. Meanwhile, I think that Pete Townsend is kind of starting to go like, all right, Sergeant Peppers has come out. This record that we're putting out May not be. It's got a concept like sergeant Peppers, but I've got to go a little bit harder than what Sgt. Peppers did in as far as full blown storytelling, because he really did understand character building, story and the whole journey.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

No, I agree with you. I totally agree with you. I think this is Pete Townsend in the waiting room for the doctor's appointment to make. Tommy, he is there. He's got his number. He's the dmv, whatever you want to call it. But, dude, I couldn't. So many moments. So many moments on this record that I. And dude. And I don't normally do this. I was mad because I wasn't. I don't want to say mad. It's like I put this on at the gym. This was not the record to listen to at the gym. So then I listened to it at home on the headphones. I took a light dose of lsd. And I mean a light. A light micro dose. And I put it on and I vibed out and it would be like you'd be flowing and you're vibing and then suddenly it's like, you know, Medac puts the fun back in your face and it's so. It's like these Spotify ads in the middle of a mushroom trip, you know, and you know it. Some of the bits felt a little long, little sketch, you know what I mean? You watch SNL sometimes you're like, that should have been over three minutes ago. Like, the joke's over. We got it. The thing is, it should have been a minute and a half sketch. That was what was so great about Mr. Show with Bob and David. It got. It was over before it got annoying. Seinfeld boom. Done before it's annoying. Breaking Bad boom.

[Brendan Small]

I didn't put as much pressure on this record when I first heard it. I just thought, here's a who record that I haven't. That I haven't listened to, really. And Taken. And this is years ago, because I've known this record for a long time and I always thought this is a really interesting. What I think it has is it has all these kind of like these more emotional songs that end up being sarcastic. But I think there's a real humanity inside of this record. And I think like songs like Marianne or Odorano that sound like, you know, that sound like beautiful little pieces, little kind of like love lost teenagers, but really they're all stories of masturbation and smelling bad. But I still thought, the songwriting is really strong on this record. And of course I can See, From Miles is the big, big hit. I also did not mind any of the commercials because to me they were. It's like watching old movies about Hollywood where you go, oh, wow. It's a time capsule of an era and a feeling, and I think that's inside of this record. You cannot divorce that from this record of what ads sounded like at that time, what work people would do to kind of like get people excited by a product. It's antiquated now, but at the time, that's what stuff sounded like. That's why I like watching, you know, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood by Tarantino in that they. All the records, like when he's. When he's driving the car around, those are real ads. They're talking about, like Batman and they're talking about what's on tv. They're talking about all that stuff. But it really is a time capsule of real ads that are happening. And to me, it just creates more place as you're listening to it. So I listen to it a little bit more, kind of. I think I was a little bit. I didn't put as much pressure on the record when I listened to it the first time and I just heard the music. And I still think the who's got something on every single record. Maybe, I mean, like I said a quick one. I think on a quick one while he's away, to me, is the masterpiece that would eventually kind of change everything. Because look at what happened after the next record. Look at what happened after Tommy. Tommy comes out in what, 1969 here, looking right now.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah. So I got so quick. 166, this. 67. It says direct hit, 68, which is just a compilation record.

[Brendan Small]

And so.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah, so Tommy then comes out in 69. May of 69. And after that is dude live at Leeds, which.

[Brendan Small]

Right.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Good God, that was great. And then who's next?

[Brendan Small]

Yeah, which is.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Well, that's what I'm saying, dude. That's what I'm saying is this doesn't punch like who's next? It doesn't emotionally devastate like quadrophenia. It's messy. It's. Yeah, it's a little self indulgent. But maybe. Maybe hear this out. Maybe that is why it's genius. Because also you said it perfectly. You heard this with no stakes on it. I heard this at number. Whatever the number we're on. On a. Oh, it's. Yeah. I mean, in the new ranking this. They dropped. Oh, no. Who's next? Never mind who's. I was Looking at. Where did he go? Do I have it here? This is number 115. So I'm looking at it that this is in, quote, unquote, more important or if not better. I mean, lists are completely. But you know what I'm saying this to be 115. And that means. All right, we talked about Tears for Fears, dude. Songs for the Big Chair is not on this list. List. That is one of my favorite records. You even said it. It's one of the best 80s records ever made. To me, this is. This is not in the discussion of one of the records that should be kicked off of the list. But there are rec. We have this happen all the time that you're like, why is this and why not that? Or why is this lower? Not that. And. And so I'm listening to it being that it's 115 out of the 500 that we've done. We've done whatever the math is of 380, whatever. But maybe it's on the list because it's both. It is genius because it's annoying and it's. It's annoying because it commits to the bit. It's almost like the first television. First season of, like, a weird cult television show, you know, wonder shows in. Or. Or Mr. Show or Saturday Night Live or something that's like, we are. You know, or. Remember that show that nobody. It won one season. I think it was called Action. It had Jay Moore on it. And everybody was like, this is the real issue. And then it's gone. Because it was so ahead of its time. And I mean, you know, I. Maybe that is it. Maybe it's the band discovering they're smarter than their audience, you know, And.

[Brendan Small]

And, you know, it's interesting because I think. You know, what I think is. I think if you're in the right place, you're kind of terrified with what you're making, especially with. I think Pete Townsend is in a. Maybe, terrified that he may not have, you know, as all bands should be. Do I have enough songs to really make a record? Right?

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah.

[Brendan Small]

Do I have enough material here? Because I'm doing one record a year. He's young, he's creative. It's possible. And then, you know, before. Before these LPs, there were. They were singles. You know, they. They weren't really, like, songs were sold as singles. So in order to put them under the same housing, you'd have to have some kind of concept, which people are now experimenting with. So then I think what Pete Townsend really learns, and I think this is a really important thing, is that I'm not going to worry about 100 million little tiny songs. I'm going to worry about one big piece, and inside of that piece is going to end up being, you know, like, you know, everything from, you know, pinball wizard to, you know, Acid Queen to whatever it is that's in the next piece. So I think he changes the way he thinks. Plus, he's in a position of saying, people now associate me with. I hope I die before I get old talking about my generation, all that stuff, you know, where he's kind of speaking out on behalf of the youth. And then by the time who's Next comes out, he's got wasted years, which is like, basically, you've all wasted your lives doing this crazy shit. And he's taken a completely different. He's taken a completely different kind of stance on youth culture and the hippie culture and everything. So he's changing. And then as he gets older, Pete Townsend, as he gets older and starts releasing his own records, he really starts changing his philosophy completely, which is really interesting to watch him grow up and mature inside and in relation to the who and outside of it. So, I don't know. I find him, by the way. So Tommy comes out in 69. Jesus Christ Superstar comes out in 1970. I mean, it's got to be completely influenced. A rock opera was. It was a coined phrase from, you know, that was an idea. That term didn't exist until Pete sounds and invented it. So a rock opera was now a thing. And now we can tell big stories with rock and roll and we can get Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice together and start doing these crazy experiments that will also, I think, change music and change how and influence Prague and all that crazy stuff too. Because at the same time, we've got. Jethro, it's all. Black Sabbath in 69 is also around. And, you know, now. Now the darkness is coming into the world, which is very exciting and scary.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Oh, I love the darkness, dude. Oh, man. It's just. This is. You know, this isn't. Like I said, I. I think you said it perfectly with. With my reaction versus your reaction is this. That you heard it with no stakes and. And could appreciate it and. And understood what was before.

[Brendan Small]

And.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

And for me, it's like I've listened to. I've gone. And I've already gone ahead and listened to Quadravini and I've listened to who's Next over time now. And then it's. I'm glad that this came now, because if this would have been my first like who record we did on the podcast, I probably would have been like, ah, this. You know, really, why do people love this band? Like, this is garbage. I want to say garbage, but I. It's just. It's the way that I listen to Bob Dylan, which we. On this podcast, we started with Time out of Mind, so we already did their. We did other. It's so. It's almost like. Right, you're catching. You're catching. I feel like you have to hear where the who started with the mod stuff.

[Brendan Small]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Miles Davis. You want to hear. You know it. I'll say radio. It's even an easier one. You want to hear Creep. You want to hear. You want to hear the. And you. You hear Pablo, honey, into the bends. And then. Oh, here we go. Now there's. Okay, computer. Oh, now, because you. If you start with King of Limbs, you're gonna say, this is the shittiest band I've ever heard in my life.

[Brendan Small]

Right, right, right.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

You know?

[Brendan Small]

Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think it's. It's. It's good to know where you are in the trajectory of their career, because. Yeah. But gotta start off. You gotta start off writing songs and you've gotta mutate the DNA, what you're gonna turn into.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah, but you can. And I think you can, though, give somebody the. Who. Quadrophenia or Tommy, and say, start here and just listen, because you can appreciate it, because at that point, it's already fully formed and it's already. But. But that's that. Because I could say, listen, if you're gonna listen to Miles Davis. Oh, you could listen to Kind of Blue. Listen to Kind of Blue right now, that's the easiest listen in the world. I wouldn't give you brew. And maybe. And I mean, you know, and it's like.

[Brendan Small]

I think there's the standards and. Yeah. And mutate.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

I think you. I think this is a weird spot for them, and I think they're in that. Like we said, they're in that transitional. There is a. There's a revolution of the four of them where, Where Pete's gonna come out as the leader and be like, okay, this is what we're doing. So all this was cool. Now we're. We're. We're on that. We're on the Pete Townsend train. Grab your. Grab your nog, champa. You know, get on your goddamn meditation. Then get your, get your, your, your. Your. What do you call the thing that you say over and up your mantra and let's. Let's rock and roll. But. But Take my hand. You know, it's. It's the Reading Rainbow song. Song. Take my hand. Wait, that's not the reading of a song, then. Never mind. I was. I thought I was awesome.

[Brendan Small]

I did not experience this record first. I experienced. Not even the. Whose record first? I. I experienced the cast recording of Tommy in the movie with, you know. You know, with all the. All the actors in there. Like, Jack Nicholson is singing and all these. You know, and. But I do hear Roger Daltrey eventually.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

But.

[Brendan Small]

Yeah, so that's. That was my. My first take. And then that opened. By the way, I just want to talk about the movie Tommy for a second. Because Ken Russell is, you know, just a batshit talented director who, by the way, all that stuff in Tommy, when you watch. When you watch Metalocalypse and there are so many music sequences. I go back to Tommy all the time for, like, visual ideas. There's so much Tommy ripoff all throughout Metalocolate. Seriously. Throughout that. And then, you know, like, Ken Russell goes on to do Altered States, which I think is one of the most genius kind of, like, movies of all time. I think it's kind of a masterpiece. He does the Devils, which is also just a masterpiece of a movie. Ken Russell's a really, really interesting director. And the fact. Oh, he also did, like, a whole movie with Roger Daltrey while he was making Tommy about. What is it called? Someone's gonna Know this one. It's. It is about another composer.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

I'm.

[Brendan Small]

I don't even know if I've made it through the whole thing.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

It is such a lair of the white worm. That's not.

[Brendan Small]

It's not Lair of the White Worm. It's. It is a story about the world's first kind of rock and roll musician who is a talented virtuoso. Here. I'm gonna find it.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

I have to find why you. While you look for it. I just remember. Lair the White Worm was rated. Trip was rated triple R at Captain Video, which wasn't a real rating system. But they only developed it at Captain Video. Like Toxic Avenger was triple R and classic. Any of the Troma stuff. And Night of the Demons was a triple R because it had excessive nudity. Porky's triple R for sure. Lair, the White Worm. So I think I might convince my parents to rent this. And then I might have lightly masturbated. 88. Yeah, probably. I probably lightly masturbated to it. And Ken Russell. I mean, good God, Yeah, lately. Because it wasn't where. Oh, List, is it? Listemania.

[Brendan Small]

Listemania is the one. Yeah, it is. It's Franz List, the concert virtuoso piano player. And it is a wacky, wacky movie. I do recommend he also did a movie on Mahler which is crazy too that I saw. He's got a lot of movies. The Devils. I do highly recommend he did with

[Josh Adam Meyers]

his daughter, I think. I'm pretty sure. Right. Isn't his daughter in law.

[Brendan Small]

I don't know if that inflating John Bourne and his daughter in Excalibur.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

No, no, no, no. I swear to God. Teresa Russell. Ken Russell.

[Brendan Small]

Okay, maybe you're up. Nuts.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Nutty nuts. Literally.

[Brendan Small]

Literally.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

There were nuts in it, honey. How do you feel about nuts? Yeah, the, the, you know, the, the. The legume. No nuts. Because I got a part for you. This is why I had you. He is an interesting cat. Dude, you talk about some weird IMDb page. This is the most eclectic IMDb page, I would say. Yeah, he's like the HR what's his name? Not. Oh God, the Lovecraft guy.

[Brendan Small]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

He's very love crafty and, and I love that about him.

[Brendan Small]

I mean, dude, he really does incorporate a lot of music into his sequences. I mean again, go back. I think the biggest budget and Paddy Chayefsky writes it. Altered States is a real story about a guy who goes off to go do enough drugs to try to meet God. And that's what the story's about inside of a love story instead of a guy losing his father story. But it is a really crazy bonkers thing. I highly recommend it. Really great piece. Altered State. Yeah. But yeah, so anyway, so Ken Russell. Oh, and Ken Russell in the movie. I think they put in a lot of this stuff inside of Tommy where it's one of the most kind of memorable sequences in Tommy where Ann Margaret is writhing on the ground as baked beans pour through the TV and champagne and all this advertisement stuff that happens. So I think this record the who Sella mutates inside of Tommy and kind of appears later on Echoes of this man.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

I. I am, I am really now. I'm. Now I'm sorry, I'm just like on Ken Russell's IMDb page. Like

[Brendan Small]

this conversation leads people to Ken Russell. Then I'm very happy because Ken Russell is such an influence too.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

So yeah, visually we're having such a good conversation. And then Josh pulled up the IMDb page and started going deep into the trivia of. Of Altered States. I could Just. I did. I could live on IMDb if I get into any, like, you know, if it's kind of. If I like. What was that movie with John Ritter where you get sucked into the television? Stay tuned. If I get. Stay tuned. On any web page next to maybe, you know, pornhub, I. I wouldn't mind being on there lightly. Masturbating lightly. I think. I think IMDb I spend a lot of time on. I could live there.

[Brendan Small]

Yeah. I. Well, if you're. If you're going to get into Ken Russell's world, I do. Let's start with Tommy, because we're talking about rock. And then I'd say stick around for the Devils. The Devils is a really crazy story of, I guess, church and state kind of like coming together to destroy a small, peaceful town in France. Really interesting, interesting stuff. Check that out. Check out again. I keep on saying Altered States, but I do think it's a visual and story again. Patty Chayefsky, who wrote. Who wrote I'm Mad as Hell. I'm not going to Take it anymore. What is that one with Faye Dunaway and everybody. The news story. Where they start. It's a very prescient story about reality news.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Oh, oh, Anne Hathaway's in it.

[Brendan Small]

No, this is before that. I'm gonna.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Oh, wait. Broadcast News with William Hurt.

[Brendan Small]

Oh, no, the masterpiece. But I love it.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

That is a great movie. I'm gonna watch that later. What are you watching right now? What's. What are you. What's. What's. What's. What's Big B watching at night? What do you. What do you. What's, you know, watching?

[Brendan Small]

I'm watching films. Usually. I'm. I'm like going deep into. So network is the movie. Of course. So Patty Chayefsky, who's a genius. Rights network. Patty Chayefsky, who's like best friends with. Anyway, I. I can go on. I'll go on and. But that'll leave me on IMDb trying to remember people's names.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

No, but one of my watches. Good.

[Brendan Small]

I. Let's see. Oh, I was watching Michael Heineke the Piano Teacher, which is a crazy, depraved story about sexuality and.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah.

[Brendan Small]

And repression. I watched that recently. Oh, I watched the Bride. I saw Maggie Gyllenhaal's the Bride this weekend, which was.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Is it worth it? Is it worth.

[Brendan Small]

I have.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

I have AMC stubs. So I don't pay. I already paid 25 for the whole month.

[Brendan Small]

I have to say, I am. I was, I was very interested in watching this kind of movie that I think was very, very nutty, very kooky. I don't think people are making movies like this. So because it sticks out like a sore thumb, I applaud it. I think it's wacky. I think it's cuckoo. It makes me think that Maggie Gyllenhaal is nutty in a way where I could probably hang out with her.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Oh, I love that.

[Brendan Small]

Seriously. I was like. I watched this movie. I was like, maggie Gyllenhaal, I had no idea you were such a nut. I love you. I love you. Get over here. Let's hang out. So I was really excited to see that. I love when people are creative. And this is a $90 million movie, so it's crazy that she got the budget. It's crazy that it looked really cool. It reminded me of a bunch of wacky rock and roll movies, too. So, yeah, so I was interested in that. But I'm always, you know, I'm trying to. I'm, you know, I'm trying to make my way through everything that's, like, on Criterion. I have Eternal Family, which is just a nutty, bespoke, you know, website that showcases a lot of weird, kind of, like, Estonian animation and oddities that you'll never see. So I love. I love looking through the nooks and crayons. I love the classics, but I love the oddities, too. I'm really interested in movies that are not for everybody. Movies that spark some kind of imagination and are sometimes accidentally doing that, and sometimes they're really doing really cool stuff. So I found a bunch of crazy old, like, Russian directors from the 1950s who were making fantasy films for Russians before. Like, they were all tamped down and stopped from being creative. So I found a lot of crazy stuff that seems like it may have influenced, like, Baron Munchausen movies like that. So, yeah, you know, really odd things that. That I think that get me excited at the same time. I love a great classic story. I watched A Bad Day at Blackrock recently with Spencer Tracy, which is a pretty genius movie. So, yeah, I'll watch lots of weird stuff. I am always on, like I said, with music, it's my job to be inspired. I'm usually sitting in a room writing all day, and so I need to find some. Some reason to, like, open up the typewriter or to pull my guitar out. So I'm always looking for things all the time.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

I've got something for you. It's. Dude. And I mean, I'm. I'm Late to the. I'm late to the party with this girl. I. I listened to her record after I saw her, like, performance at the Brit Awards. Her name's Rosalia. She's from Barcelona. She put out an album called Lux, the song that every. The performance. She did this song with Bjork at the Brit Awards. And it's, it's about the. That rave in Berlin that I had gone to called Bert Bergain. I think it's what it's called B E R G H A I N. And it's just like 24, seven day a week rave that this, this like huge warehouse. But, but that's not. But it's the. So this album is one of the most original pieces of art I've heard in five years. And even from listening to this podcast, like, it's just something. Something. I'd be interested to see what you think about it because it is getting universal acclaim. But it is, it's out there. It's a million different and it's all in Spanish, but it's, it's Bjork. It's, it's, it's. It's more Bjork than it is like, you know, Bad Bunny, Shakira. It doesn't even. It has no, no footprint even in that world. It's more in, it's more in this.

[Brendan Small]

Okay.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

It's, it is more. Yes. It's more in the. Who sells out and to any of the listeners out there, because I think I talked about it last week too. I had mentioned it, which is what made me listen to it. I just would love to get your opinion. It's brilliant, dude. Really. And I love that. And I think the way your head is and the art that you consume, I'd be shocked if you don't, if you don't listen to it. Go. Oh, yeah, that was cool, dude. It's called Rosalia Lux. L, U X and then on. And then next to that, I want you to listen to Back that Thing up by Juvenile. What if I was like, I got a recommendation. It's Hanson Bop. Okay, now work with me here. That is their, their quadrophenia.

[Brendan Small]

That's their quadrophenia. Yeah. You could be right about that. You could be right. I'll check out. I, I usually am like, way off of what's going on in the world of pop or, or whatever, but, but, you know, every once in a while I'll go, okay, my. I'll be shifted to check something out. Well, the new Gorillas is something that I was I love that video that they did. I thought that was like, you know, working in animation for as long as I have, you realize, you know, we're kind of reduced to doing stuff that's kind of fast and quick, you know, to make sure that it makes its way through the pipeline, you know, and gets out to the audience. So when you get a chance or when you get to experiment with some gorgeous kind of bespoke handcrafted stuff, it's really. It really lands and you really realize, like, how much that stuff really has a different feeling and a different vibe. You know, we put out a movie a couple years ago called army of the Doom Star where we really did use some of those like, classic techniques from rotoscoping to. I built ink tank clouds, like in Flash Gordon for like the backgrounds or. We did it like a bunch of. We built. We went out and got our hands dirty and did a lot of stuff practically. And it seems like they did a lot of that stuff too on this, where they really built backgrounds and paint. Oil painted backgrounds, used multi plane machines where they can track through and kind of like push into scenes by having different layers of glass with paint on it, where you're pushing in panning left and right. Classic old Disney stuff. I love all of that old art. And you can make your stuff look like that now. And the Gorillaz really did and built something really beautiful, just something gorgeous to look at.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

I mean, their live show is so good too, man. I mean, and I love that you said that they started behind the screen and then eventually they're like, ah, they got. You got it. Because, dude, that it would. Yeah, it would be cool to see a band live in the animation. But it's like, it's still. You want to see Damon, you want to see. You want to see the band he's gonna assemble, the incredible musicians. I mean, I saw them live at Barclays, or was it. I think it was Barclays or Prudential, like the last tour. And. And it's just phenomenal. Like, phenomenal music and great animation too.

[Brendan Small]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, we're about to go on the road. Death Clock is. And with Amana Marth and with a band called Castle Rat. And we played a picture. So that means that we have, you know, a gigantic movie theater size screen and we are playing, you know, we have click tracks in our ears, so our drummers, basically our conductor. And we want to make sure that we play in lockstep with the click track and make sure every downbeat coincides with the cut. And we're playing really fast, crazy extreme metal and we have this whole light show from the screen and when it works, which is what happens every single show because I play with such great musicians and again, they need to be seen. You need to see what our drummer is doing back there in addition to the screen because he's doing it live. He's really landing this stuff. He is a musical perfectionist and a virtuoso at the same time. So it's really fun to watch him make his way through the stuff. So the whole feeling is a real kind of synergy between music and visual. Again, what I kind of consider to be somewhat cinematic. Even though what we're doing is pretty bombastic and insane and blood riddled and gore riddled and violence comedy and all kinds of things happening at the same time and sexuality and all kinds of stuff at the same time. So our show is lots of fun. You got to come and see our show. We'll be playing at the Palladium here in la.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Oh my God. I would be there in a second. Dude. I. I would love. Like I said, huge fan of the show. I'm so glad you got to come on to do this, man. This was. Yeah, this is great. And I. And I. And I don't want to take. I've. I have two. Two more things I want to just ask because it's about animation. And then I'm going to do our final catch of the. It will get you out of here. Were you. Were you a Simpsons guy? Where is that? Like, I mean, I feel like everybody kind of was. But what for animation, like was. Is that like your holy grail?

[Brendan Small]

Is it like you put the stuff that like, I keep my head down and I work so I don't catch everything. But before I started, you know, there was the Simpsons. And the Simpsons were working really hard to make. It really felt like a special happened every single week, you know, like especially in the early days when they figured out. I remember like the Christmas special that they did. By the way, that early. That early era of Fox where they were. Tracey Ullman show was happening. Chris Elliott, Get a Life to me was like the show that blew it open. Like they made a show for me. I can't believe it. The show is so odd. It's so interesting. Chris Elliott so funny. And then the Simpsons came out. So yeah, I think it was just like major craftsmanship in the writing room, major craftsmanship in the animation and the whole thing and the actors and all that stuff and 0,00. I can't. What do they have, like 4, 000 episodes out?

[Josh Adam Meyers]

I mean, it's crazy at this point, man. And I mean, it's that. That, like you said, dude, I love that you said that. Every episode felt like a special from season from season. I mean, I'll even say the first two seasons are great. I won't on any of them. Even the ones after 16, because I always say, everybody says, like, the golden years are like 3 through 16. And I'm adding a few because a lot of people said it ended at like 12 or 13. I'm like, dude, even now, it's still good. It's still ice cream. You know what I mean? Maybe some is Van Leeuwen and delicious salted caramel or honeycomb, and then some is Breyers with a little bit of frost on it, but it's still ice cream. And. And I always love it. And it's. It's funny. It's like, because I become friendly through music with Matt Stone from South park. And so I've. We've jammed at his, like, his lockout here in New York a bunch. And. And, you know, and I'll just. Just hear him talk about. And even them. Them doing the whole Simpsons did it episode. It's just like. It's like. It's. It's. You've done so much for so much, and it's opened it up for so many other, you know, like, I don't. If there is. If the Simpsons didn't have such huge success, then. Then it's like, who knows? If adults. It probably would have never happened.

[Brendan Small]

Without a doubt. Without a doubt. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in those. And especially in those early days, you. If you were to get an animated special, that would be the thing you got that year. And then they said, no, no, no. We're raising the bar. We're doing something no other network has tried to do, which is. I mean. But. But then you go back historically and you go, wait a minute. The Flintstones was a primetime show.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

It was.

[Brendan Small]

It was like back in. Back in the day. That was a primetime show. But I don't know if it had just the volume of jokes and the volume of, you know, it would cram it like a suitcase they're trying to sit on to close it every single episode. With so many jokes. So much. Just so much thought, so much hard work.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

It's. It's. It is. It is some of the best comedic writing, some of the best voice actors. I mean, I was like, just. It's It's. To this day, I. I think there are. It's some of the funniest, you know, episodes of television that I've ever watched are Simpsons. And then. Even then, I love what south park and I love what you've done, and I love what everybody. And even. It took me a while to get on board with. With McFarland, I just was always like, well, I'm a Simpsons guy, but it's like after Big J. Okerson just showed me enough episodes of American Dad, I'm like, all right, I get it, and I get the comedy, and it is brilliant, and it's super entertaining. You know, it's not something I watched the way I watched south park or I've watched Metalopoulos or I've watched the Simpsons. But it is something that I'm like, we could take it back to this, to the Flintstones. But the Flintstones felt like. Didn't. I don't know, man. It just didn't have the.

[Brendan Small]

As a counterculture, I guess, as.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah, like.

[Brendan Small]

Well, south park, to me is something that's just like. It's all. They found a way to always make what they're doing interesting and always kind of relate it to what's going on. So they were always on the cutting edge to me. And then the stuff they would do outside of south park was ridiculous. Book of Mormon was upsetting.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

How good it was. Oh, it's brilliant. And musically, it's. Well, dude, Trey is a. I mean, well, Matt, dude, I. He's got a studio in his place. He's got every instrument you could possibly think of, and he's like. He's like a C at all of them. And maybe that's just what. What rubbed off from Trey because Trey comes from such a background. I've never met him, but it's like, you could only assume the guy definitely did theater. He did musical theater, for sure. He is that actor, you know, singer, songwriter, raider guy. That. The weird kid that was probably in high school that, you know, it was. Was. That was the star in everything. And. And also could. Could, you know, write on his own. And I think, you know, for the two of them to meet up and just probably both balance each other out, it's just. Yeah, man. It's lightning in a bottle. Same thing with you, dude. I mean, you. You get lighting in a bottle, and you got it. You were lucky to get it twice. And I think with Metalopoulos more than anything is like, you really got to do something that you created a job for yourself that you've always wanted. You didn't even realize it, that you probably did, but it was like, holy. This is the. If you would have told, you know, 14 year old self, this is what I'm doing. And you did it, so it's same. So. Yeah, man, that's. That's really rad. Really rad, dude. All right, let's get you out of here, dude. I can. I can kiss your ass all day. You're coming back on. We've got more. We got metal. We got more that you dig. All right. We ask everybody these questions. Favorite song on the record.

[Brendan Small]

Favorite song on the record. Well, I won't go with. I really. I really do go. I go back to Marianne with the Shaky Hands. Like it really is. Subject matter alone. I really love the way that song sounds. I am a fan of what was going on through the who at this era, though. It's a stepping stone to some. To me, I thought it was still an end game for. For really cool songs from that era. They sound very. They sound completely of that era. I like it.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

It.

[Brendan Small]

Marianne with a Shaky Hand. So that's my. That's my simple answer.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Okay, I'm going to go with the hit, unfortunately, I can see. Is there anything you skip over? Is this a no skip album or is there a song that you skip over?

[Brendan Small]

Is there a song that I skip over? Good question. I don't skip over this record. You know, when I first bought it, when I was in my 20s and I bought this record just on a lark because I didn't have it, I listened to it and I thought, this is a cool, undiscovered who record. I don't know all these songs, these are not like, they aren't like, they're not gonna be played on the radio all the time like. Like Pinball Wizard. And for this, for all those reasons, I thought I got a bonus album, you know, and that's what this whole record feels like to me. Who bonus album of. Not their most popular stuff, but I think it's solid as hell. So I. I disagree with what you think as it being kind of a mid record, but I think mid.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

I'm not saying mid. I feel bad. I feel bad, but.

[Brendan Small]

Dude, that's right.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

It's. I think. I'm telling you, dude, it is. It is that difference in. In just how and when.

[Brendan Small]

The importance on the listen. Yeah, I agree.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

If this would have been. Dude, this would have been like three, four years ago. I would be like, all right, but we're in. We're down to, like, 115, man. We are in the thick of some of the great. This. Once we break that 100, this is like. These are the hundred greatest albums according to old white people and musicians and A and R people. So you better fucking. If I listen to it before. You better fucking, you know, kick me in the dick. And. And I really, you know, listen, I wrote. I want. You'll hear when I wrote. When I do my. My Final thoughts. But I. It's not a bad album. It's. I think it's just the placement where it is. Are there things that I skipped over a lot of the commercials? The third time I listened to it, I was like, okay, I got this one. Let me get to the stuff that I really liked. But still great. Great. Still great.

[Brendan Small]

All right.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Can you. To this album. My answer is no way in hell. This would be. This would be too hard. This would be like. This would be like listening to, like, Spotify, like a radio station, but you don't pay for the premium. And then you're gonna get the commercials, like, you know.

[Brendan Small]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Stamps.com. yeah.

[Brendan Small]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if this is the ultimate sexy record. To me, it seems like a lonely guy masturbating record, maybe.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah.

[Brendan Small]

Have a sex record, I think. Put on Marianne with his shaky hands and have yourself a good time.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yeah. Do a little light masturbation. Light. Light. And how would. How would you get someone that's never listened to this before to listen to the record? Like, how do you. What would be your elevator pitch on why this record is on the list? Why is this important? Why are we talking about it today?

[Brendan Small]

Because I think it's the last time the who puts out a record of. I mean. I mean, it's. Maybe it's not true, because I do think there are kind of albums with singles that happen after this. Like, who's Next? Has a bunch of different stuff that's somewhat contradictory inside of it. I think the. What you don't like is something that I do like. I think the nature of the era of the ads and how. And. And also the fact that it's. It's a. It's kind of a comment on how we're being marketed to. But at the same time, Pete Townsend is smart enough to go, can I sell ad space to my own record and make extra money so that I can pay all these bills? I got guitars to smash over here. So, yeah, I think it's also. This is the end of an older who. And it moves on. It's the bridge. So it's an important bridge though. But we don't get Tommy unless we go through this. We ramp it up through this thing and again through Rael or rail or whatever. However you say it, you can hear the etymology of what I think is, you know, what, what their biggest masterpiece that they'll be known for potentially.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

You know, I, I, you, you hit basically what I had written, which is like, you know, because you always want to understand like why is it, you know, to somebody that's like, you know, most people have heard of the who because they played the goddamn super bowl halftime show. So even if you're a young kid, you're like, oh my beat. My parents like the. So why should you listen to them? Because you know, they, they why. How did they become one of the biggest selling bands in the world? This is one of the steps to do that, to get to that record that we've talked about, whether Tommy or Quadrophenia. You know, you have to, you have to hear this. And I think, you know, and maybe it's, this could be the first record that turned music into a satire. This could be, you know, the, the moment that, that, that the who decides to stop being a hit making mod band and start becoming these ambitious world building artists. I think what, what, what it really it is is you want to see a band in the transitional period. Like this is the, they're in the cocoon right now, ready to become the butterfly and, and if to be that band. This is how you get to the blueprint for, for bigger masterpieces forming in like real time. I think for anybody that's like that, that's never listened to the who. I wouldn't say start with this record. What would you say? Would you say start at the first record?

[Brendan Small]

No, I'd say start, start with the hits and work your way up to them. You know, start to the. But by the way, harmonically, from, from a chordal point of view, I think Pete Townsend is starting to play with chords in a more exciting way. In fact, there's a song called Sunrise on this where I think he was trying to teach, show his mother that he could write beautiful music. And he got himself a chord book. And I think that also is going to expand the horizon for him. So I do hear like, I do hear that he's doing these cool descending bass notes while he's keeping like kind of a top triad happening. That's something that's going to happen all throughout, all throughout Tommy. And I think harmonically he's he's scratching the surface of what he can do beyond this. And so that's in this too. So that's another reason I would pitch this record.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Totally, dude. This was so much fun. Please come back on. We've got 115 more episodes to do.

[Brendan Small]

I'd love to talk about music. Yeah, I love. Honestly, I saw that there are a couple options here, and I picked this one because I really do like this record and I do think it's an important bridge because the next record is such an important one too.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

So important. Which I'm gonna put on right now, the second this is over. Because I'm like, oh, I want to cleanse my palette with what they were going for. Like, I want to know, what were you going for? Ooh. All right. Okay. Light masturbation. Light masturbation.

[Brendan Small]

That's.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

That's how we title this. Alex, please come back on one more time. Promote away. Like, where the tour, talk about the tour. Everything that's coming up.

[Brendan Small]

Go to deathclocklive.com and you can see our tour dates will probably come. And we'll be in Brooklyn. I know we'll be all throughout the United States. We're going to be in the south, we're going to be in the north. We're going to be everywhere. So come check us out. It's the 20 year anniversary of Metalocalypse, and Metalocalypse wouldn't have happened without the who and it would not have happened without Pete Townsend. So I have a lot of love and admiration for Pete Townsend. So, yeah, there you go. The who, Death Clock. It's all one thing now. And Ken Russell.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Yes. Everybody listen to Tommy. Listen. Watch. Watch Altered States on Altered States. Go to the tour 20th anniversary and. And dude, I'm like, again, thank you so much. This was great, dude. Thank you so much, buddy.

[Brendan Small]

Absolutely.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

What I tell you? What I tell you? The one and only Brendan Smalls on Instagram Brendan Smalls, www.brendansmall.com Get those tickets for Death Klot's 20th anniversary tour. Go to metalocalypselive.com and you can find other dates, music, and information about Brendan's work as well at his website, brendansmall.com and across all social media channels at brendansmizzles. We'll bring it back. Smizzies. Not smizzies, but like izzle language. I'm going straight Snoopy Dog. Okay, guys. So. So we just listened to the who sellout from 1967, our new music pick, brought to you in part by Distrokid is a track called Pastel Dreams by Nilly Brosh. You can find links to the music on our website the 500podcast.com. Next week it is Cream with Deser I'm gonna fuck it up. Disraeli Disraeli Disraeli Gears. I hope I said that right. It's from 66 to buy cream. Dig onto it, dig into it, dig around it, Dig all over it. Baby. Do your homie worky. We'll talk to you soon. Ra. The 500 keeping it fleecy for the fleece nation on the 500 the 500. Two Good and Co Coffee Creamers are made with farm fresh cream, real milk and contain 3 grams of sugar per serving. That's 40% less than the 5 grams per serving in leading traditional coffee creamers for a rich, delicious experience. Whether you enjoy your coffee hot, cold, bold or frothy, two good coffee creamers make every sip a good one. Two good coffee creamers real goodness in every sip. Find them at your local Kroger in the creamer aisle.

[Brendan Small]

Martha listens to her favorite band all the time.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

In the car, gym, even sleeping.

[Brendan Small]

So when they finally went on tour, Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live. She saved so much she got a seat close enough to actually see and hear them.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

Sort of.

[Brendan Small]

You were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you. More Expedia made to travel Savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.

[Josh Adam Meyers]

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