157 - Joy Division - Closer - Matt Pinfield

Summary

Podcast Summary: The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers – Episode 157: Joy Division - Closer with Matt Pinfield

Release Date: June 4, 2025
Host: Josh Adam Meyers
Guest: Matt Pinfield

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Introduction

In Episode 157 of The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers, host Josh Adam Meyers delves deep into Joy Division's seminal album Closer, with special guest Matt Pinfield. This episode not only explores the intricate layers of the album but also intertwines personal narratives that highlight the resilience and enduring legacy of both the band and its members.

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Exploring "Closer" by Joy Division

The episode kicks off with an analysis of Joy Division's opening track, "Closer," setting the stage for a comprehensive discussion about the album's impact and musicality.

"That is the opening track by Joy Division from their 1980 album Closer. It's also number 157 out of 500 on the 500 with Josh Adam Meyers what's up party people?"
– Morty Coyle [02:47]

Matt Pinfield brings his expertise to dissect the nuances of "Closer," emphasizing its significance in Joy Division's discography and its influence on the post-punk genre.

"It's something that definitely deserves your time to at least listen to it once and listen to a band that was literally, I really believe, like, every single stroke of a band like that."
– Josh Adam Myers [72:09]

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Personal Journeys and Overcoming Adversity

A poignant segment of the episode is dedicated to Matt Pinfield's personal journey, particularly his battle with a massive stroke. Matt shares his harrowing experience, detailing the moments leading up to the stroke, his time in the hospital, and the overwhelming support from friends and the music community.

"I was helping him with something, you know, like, helping him, like, do some technical thing. And so I was at his house and I said, dude, I don't feel good, man."
– Josh Adam Myers [08:38]

Matt recounts waking up from a two-month coma, reflecting on the uncertainty of life and the emotional toll it took on his loved ones.

"When I did wake up, I know I was doing. My friend brought his guitar and we did Crybaby Cry by the Beatles."
– Josh Adam Myers [40:54]

The hosts express admiration for Matt's resilience and determination to return to his passion for music and broadcasting despite the challenges.

"You are the strongest dude I know, man."
– Jeremiah Watkins [43:25]

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The Enduring Legacy of Joy Division

The conversation shifts back to the musical influence of Joy Division and their transition into New Order. The hosts discuss how Joy Division's dark, emotive sound paved the way for future genres and inspired countless artists.

"Every aspect of what Joy Division are is so important. The whole post punk era, it was."
– Josh Adam Myers [22:45]

Matt Pinfield highlights specific bands like The Chameleons, The Sound, and The Comsat Angels as direct descendants of Joy Division's innovative sound, underscoring the band's lasting impact on the music industry.

"Peter Hook was another guy who reached out, which in Joy Division and New Order, which was great."
– Josh Adam Myers [65:22]

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Influence on Modern Music and Covers

The episode also touches upon modern interpretations and covers of Joy Division's work, showcasing how their music continues to resonate with artists today.

"They played a year ago this past weekend and I opened for them DJing on stage playing All Vines."
– Josh Adam Myers [24:12]

Matt Pinfield discusses how bands like Nine Inch Nails have honored Joy Division, bridging the gap between generations of music lovers.

"Nine Inch Nails Cover that, which was, you know, written around that same time."
– Jeremiah Watkins [70:49]

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Community and Support

Towards the end of the episode, Josh shares the overwhelming support he received from the music community during his recovery, emphasizing the tight-knit nature of the industry.

"The outpouring was amazing. And speaking of which, Peter Hook was another guy who reached out, which from. From Joy Division and New Order, which was, which was great."
– Josh Adam Myers [66:39]

Matt Pinfield expresses gratitude for the continued love and support from fans and fellow musicians, reinforcing the theme of community resilience.

"We love you, buddy."
– Morty Coyle [66:42]

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Conclusion and Looking Forward

As the episode wraps up, the hosts and Matt reflect on the profound influence of Joy Division's "Closer" and the personal journeys that intertwine with their musical legacy. They hint at future discussions, maintaining the podcast's commitment to exploring the depth of influential albums and the stories behind them.

"Next week it's Paul's Boutique week as we go deep into the Beastie Boys Paul's Boutique."
– Josh Adam Myers [75:12]

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Notable Quotes

• "I felt like I could say this on the two, because it's not a knock, because I'd rather have you here anyway, Matt, as a friend."
  – Morty Coyle [12:32]

• "It's like. It's almost like Steve Jones teaching himself how to play guitar. It's out of necessity, you know what I mean?"
  – Josh Adam Myers [56:33]

• "You are the strongest dude I know, man."
  – Jeremiah Watkins [43:25]

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Final Thoughts

Episode 157 of The 500 with Josh Adam Meyers masterfully blends music analysis with heartfelt personal storytelling. Through Matt Pinfield's resilience and the enduring legacy of Joy Division, listeners are offered both an in-depth appreciation of a pivotal album and an inspiring testament to overcoming life's adversities. Whether you're a long-time fan or new to Joy Division, this episode provides a rich, engaging exploration of music's power to heal and inspire.

Transcript

[Josh Adam Myers]

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[Josh Adam Myers]

This episode is brought.

[Morty Coyle]

To you by State Farm.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling. Talk to a State Farm agent today.

[Morty Coyle]

To learn how you can choose to.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[Morty Coyle]

This show is brought to you by Distro Kid. Bring your music to the masses.

[Wayne Federman]

The 500 the 500.

[Morty Coyle]

JM been walking.

[Wayne Federman]

Us down through that 2012 edition so it ain't nothing too new.

[Morty Coyle]

Hundreds more to go in and need of a friend. The King of peace for angelo Talking the 500 until the end Talking the.

[Wayne Federman]

500 until the end with my man JM on the 500 Talking the 500.

[Morty Coyle]

Until the end and arena she pails for a.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Wins a minute to add.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

To his life but the sickness is.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Drowned by Christ More Pray to God make it quick.

[Wayne Federman]

Watch him fall.

[Morty Coyle]

That is the opening track by Joy division from their 1980 album Closer. It's also number 157 out of 500 on the 500 with Josh. Adam Myers what's up party people? Thank you for joining me on the only podcast that's going through Rolling Stone magazine's list of the 500 greatest albums all the way down to zero. I am a comedian. I'm taking you through. We've got some guests. It's a lot of fun. Subscribe to the Patreon everybody. Patreon.com backslash the 500 podcast. If you're listening to the show and you're a fleece army man, it really will help. Master Fleece Theater. It's incredible. We love making it. Me, DJ Morty Coyle, Wayne Federman and JT. Tune in patreon.com backslash the 500 podcast. Buy the merch, enjoy yourself. I am on the road. I'll be in town most of June. I got a couple gigs I'll be announcing next week, but come see me josh adamyers.com@josh adam Myers on all social media. Let's get to it, guys. Joy Division, first time doing it, and, man, did we get the perfect guest for it. The one and only Matt Penfield. If you don't know, Matt returning guest. We love him. The story is incredible. The guy's cheated death, like, seven times, and I think this is one of his first interviews back, so I'm very excited. This is a music legend. Rate, review, and most importantly, subscribe to the 500. Listen free on all platforms or anywhere you get your pods. Follow me at Josh Adam Myers and all social media at the 500 Podcast. For the podcast, email the [e-mail] Follow the Facebook group like Crazy Evan. And for all things 500, go to the website the 500podcast.com. All right, y' all not left to say, but here we go with number 157 out of 500 with joy divisions closer. Well, I. I feel. Here's the other thing is, not only do I not feel well today, I. I stayed up and I watched the peewee documentary, and I. I think I've. I don't think I've cried harder in my life. Like, I'm. I want to cry now because I just finished it, and it's like, God damn, dude, he was the best. Like, he got such a raw deal.

[Josh Adam Myers]

He really did.

[Morty Coyle]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's like, we're Mr. Rogers.

[Morty Coyle]

But he had to hide it so. Because. And that's what's so up, is that he had to hide it so he could be on a children's show because he knew he'd have no career when now you. He made. And it was. So did you guys. Have you guys seen the documentary yet?

[Josh Adam Myers]

But I heard everything about it. I heard it was great. And I heard it was, you know, like. Yeah, it's just. Today's, like a different world. Are you kidding? And, like, he got canceled back then for, you know, just some, you know, that whole thing with the Florida and, you know, you know, just. It's just upsetting because he was great.

[Morty Coyle]

So great.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I interviewed him on my morning show, you know, like, I had him on there, you know, back in the. You, like, 2,000, I don't know, eight or nine. And he was just Great man. And, yeah, he was always so awesome. You know, everything he did to write his show and create the characters and every. You know, I just loved it.

[Morty Coyle]

You couldn't. It's. It's. It's. It's literally like what he. He made like his own comical Sergeant Pepper, like a world that you could live in and just every little detail. And it was so. That was. That's what I found so interesting. Especially when you see somebody that's like, that kind of a comic, because it's like making an album when you make, like, you know, the sketch world. And so it really just. And it just got me. And then I finished it this morning and now I'm like, oh, God, I'm just like a mess emotion. And then I have to talk to Matt and I'm like, oh, God, like my brother. I haven't seen you in so long, man.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's great to see you. And I'm still alive after all that insanity. Yeah, yeah, we love that about you.

[Morty Coyle]

Morty.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Are you.

[Morty Coyle]

Are you getting in this or. What's the deal? Morty looks like he's going through hell right now trying to get in here. Morty, talk.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Can you hear me?

[Morty Coyle]

Finally. My God.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, the problem is this microphone. Oh, it's better. Yeah, I can't. Well, I'm just using the normal.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, the computer. Okay.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Sorry. I'm.

[Morty Coyle]

I'm just going through. I just had a lot of crap in my body, and so I've been. I'm on kind of like a cleanse right now, and it's just like all this stuff is like rushing out, and so I feel like. So ultimately, what are we doing? Three days? Just like, just hopefully a three day cleanse. Hopefully. Yeah. I mean, you never know anymore. Could be. Could be a 2. I could feel better tomorrow, but just I already kind of felt. I just had a lot of really busy weeks and a lot of like. And that's what's so. And then not to, like, bring it to all this, but you're always like, how do we go from peewee to. Can't get Morty on to what we're going to talk about.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, by the way, just a great album I want to give you. I want to. First of all, Matt, dude, we're recording. Dude, it is so great to see you.

[Josh Adam Myers]

We love you, man.

[Morty Coyle]

We do. We really love you. We're really happy you're here.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

So happy you're alive. The outpouring, you know, I think. I think he'll get to that a little later. But the last time I saw you was at our mutual friend Bobby's memorial.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

As you were walking out at the Rainbow. And we spoke, and it was the craziest thing because I realized a week later you had said something like, oh, I want to ask you something. And then you walked out. And then a week went by and I went, I haven't. I wonder what Matt. And then I started writing you and heard nothing. And then the news came out.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You know, it was wild. I was, you know, man, I do. I didn't feel good that day. But that didn't have anything to do with the stroke that was coming two days later. You know, I literally was, you know, was at Bobby's memorial, and I just had a stomach was bothering me, and I walked up to get an Uber because I didn't, you know, my friend John Tempesto, you know, who's placed.

[Morty Coyle]

Love him. My dog park buddy. Dude, that's my dog park buddy. Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You know, that's where I had my stroke. I was at his house.

[Morty Coyle]

No way.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. And I was, you know, I was helping him with something, you know, like, helping him, like, do some technical thing. And so I was at his house and I said, dude, I don't feel good, man. And all of a sudden, like, I went down on the couch and next to it, and. And I was like, better call, you know, better call my girlfriend. Better call, you know, like, the ambulance. And next thing you know, I'm on a gurney going into a, you know, like an EMS truck. And the last thing I remember is pulling into the hospital. And then I was basically in and out of a coma for two months. And I was not a medically induced coma either. The coma came because of the stroke. And on top of it, I got Mrs. Pneumonia in the hospital, which, you know, only 55 of people survive that. I mean, the odds are really low.

[Morty Coyle]

Wow.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Not good to survive that pneumonia. So they told my. My daughters that I wasn't probably gonna live. And they also told a lot of my very close friends that were there. And just the fact that my poor, you know, my. My daughter Jessica was there, and my youngest daughter flew up with her mom, you know, cross country from the, you know, southeast. To think you're someone to say goodbye to your father is just. Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And our mutual friend Greg was keeping me posted as well.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, Mr. Ball. Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yes. Yeah. But, yeah, Greg was there. Greg was there. My friend Matt Holmes and my daughter Jessica. When, like, I finally came, I. I came awake two months later, which was pretty amazing, guys. So you know, but I'm here and I'm alive, and I'm very grateful. You're alive, baby. You're survivor B. I woke up going, what the happened to my life? What's been going on?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

What happened to my.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Wait, Trump is president again? Dude, I missed everything. I missed the inauguration, the fires. I. You know, like this one.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

On the night before the fires. I hit the ground and then. Oh, you know, and then, you know, missed the Oscars and, you know, nobody.

[Morty Coyle]

Got punched this year. Don't worry. Also, Also, I can just imagine. I can just imagine, Matt. Like, I'm gonna go check out Perry Fe house out in Pacific Palace. Say, what the. Everything's gone now.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I've been to his house. I mean, oh, my God. I mean, a lot of friends lost houses. Time warp, you know, our friend Marco, you know what I mean, had lost his house. Is a. It was in a band. Sugar cult. A lot of bands, actually.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, a lot of musician. My cousin Brandon is helping with the Altadena with getting a lot of musicians their stuff back. If you happen to see any of his posts, anybody, anywhere in social media, his name is Brandon J. He was in a band called Lutefisk and a bunch of different bands, 3D picnic, but he had his entire house burned down. He also did the music for Orange is the New Black with his wife Gwendolyn and the other. The other Jenji Cohen shows, but lost everything and then took that energy and has been getting all of the Altadena musicians, their stuff back, record collections, instruments. You'll. If that happens to come up, it's always for a good cause. And he absolutely gets the equipment and everything to the musicians.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's so great that he's doing that.

[Morty Coyle]

Man, that is great. Yeah. And then. And then it's like, all right, you know, we had. I'm gonna say, fallout. We. We were shooting for the moon on Joy Division. We were so close to. Can I say. I feel like I could say this on the two, because it's not a knock, because I'd rather have you here anyway, Matt, as a friend. Because I get all worked up when I talk to, like, people that I'm like, all right, matzo ball soup. But we almost had Peter Hook for this.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Morty Coyle]

And then we almost had. We thought we had Ewan McGregor. And I was like, you know, I was like, all right, Obi Wan. Matt Penfield post stroke. All right, I'll take Matt Penfield post stroke.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, Peter Hooks, you know, he's such a great guy. I Love him, man, you know. Yeah, he's just a good dude. And his son Jack, you know, plays base for Smashing Pumpkins, you know, it's. And Jack's great too, man. It's like that bass, that great bass playing runs in the family and very inventive, you know what I mean? But I love that Jack, his son is like a total grunge head. Like he loves like, you know, his favorite bands are Pumpkin Sound Garden, you know what I mean?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

That's the age, I assume.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, because it was. He was perfect. The age for him coming up, man. I. I remember being at new music seminars would with. With Peter Hook in our crazier days. And you know, I was actually to tell you guys, I was supposed to be at the show at Haraz when the shows got canceled after Ian Curtis committed suicide. They were supposed to do one Maxwell show. They were supposed to do Harrah's in New York City, a really cool club where I, you know, like would go. I saw the second of first play there, like their first tour. I saw a lot of stuff at City Gardens, you know, the place that Jon Stewart worked, you know, as a bartender and a bar back. And then later James Murphy as a bouncer.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You're in that documentary, great documentary.

[Morty Coyle]

Oh, tell stories.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Come on. But I gotta say, you know, so there's. That's the connection was wild is I had this friend from high school who loved Joy Division and he had really great taste. And we were in a post punk and post punk and he was going to. Not nyu, to Columbia, right? He was going to Columbia to be a doctor. His roommate was going to be a lawyer. And these are guys that like, you know, they go to see. We go see John Waters movies and Pink Flamingo, you know, we just like I always. We were always looking for fucking crazy shit to do and see. And we all went to see like the Clash rude boy movie when it debuted at the 8th Street Playhouse in New York City downtown. So we had tickets for Joy Division, one of the shows that was canceled after his suicide. We were going to go to Harrah's, which would have been great, but that was there when they played City Gardens. Speaking of Jon Stewart and James Murphy, Joy Division, I mean, New Order played in the afternoon. The only thing they had out was the Ceremony single and In A Lonely Place, which were both Joy Division songs really, that were. They never got to record. So I watched them. And Bernie Sumner, Bernie's great dude, but Bernie, he. He was very nervous taking over that frontman spot. He was not facing the audience. You know, you always hear those stories about Jim Morrison or you hear about, like, you know, David Byrne, you know, and all these guys didn't face the audience. But Bernie, I can actually say I was there and witnessed him not being able to face the audience when they were doing. Because it was so new for them. Just touring on one single after Ian Curtis's death.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And he's talked about, like, they basically went around and said, all right, which of us is going to be the singer? And they basically settled on him by going by him. Just by default, it was like, what about you? Okay, what about you? And then he ended up just being the singer and was like, I don't. I don't want to be the singer. And so it's so different.

[Morty Coyle]

But that's the thing is, like, you have to, you know, coming from me, a guy that new, New Order like. And I love. We. We just covered True faith at one of the goddamn comedy jams. We mashed it up with another, like, New wave song. I forget. I think we did, like, a. Like a Depeche Mode into New Order. And, like, I love. And we did. What's the big record that. The New Order record that is with the Wall. Yeah, the big record. Like, we did. We did a new record, New Order record on the podcast.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And there's Corruption, Power and Lies, I think.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Morty Coyle]

No, it was the One Name, One Ceremony.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

No, no, no, no.

[Morty Coyle]

Jared, look that up. I know it sounds stupid.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Did you guys do Substance? Because it was Substance.

[Morty Coyle]

That's it.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's Substance, which is the greatest hits. It's all the singles, you know, and by the way, as we know, just being a, you know, you know, alternative radio DJ and a club DJ at that period of time, they were like, every song had, like, 10 versions out, you know.

[Morty Coyle]

Sure. And they're all long, too. Yeah. It's like. But that. But this is what. What gets me is how you can go. Because I'm. This is me really listening to a Joy Division record from the first time I had heard. I had roommates that loved. That loved the song Love Will Tear Us Apart. And they would cover that in their band, but I never really dug into them. And so it's like, this is my first listening. But it's like, how do you get from Joy Division, which is, like, dark and just, you know, repetitive? I mean, I can see the similarities in the dance music, obviously, in the post punkness of it, but it's also like, how do you get from that to doing, like, you know, Every time I think of you I feel a shot. Right. You know, that's such a. It's so crazy to know that those are basically the same bands.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You know, what's beautiful about it is, you know that when those new singles were coming out, you know, like we were buying them at the import shop. Every new single that came out back then, and boy, it was like, you know, they were helping. They were. They. Along with depression, a lot of other people were really kind of inventing what was happening as far as the. All that danceable alternative music at that period of time. And look at those New Order records. I mean, I put it this way, it is so even the Cure, we're inspired to borrow Blue Monday for the Walk, which is a great Cure song to walk. And so the thing was, they. Robert Smith had heard that and thought, I like what they're doing. He wrote the Walk. So it's like got the same kind of vibe to it. Yeah, but everybody borrowed from everybody back then.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And we all owe Sylvester for turning them on at a disc, at a disco that they came to New York and started dancing and we're like, yeah, we need something like this. Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, all those places, you know, back in, in the day, the Mud Club, I would go to a lot of those, you know, even though I was DJing in New Jersey and eventually DJ'd at the Limelight, I. I was like, you know, I. I would go to all those clubs because those clubs would also have shows, you know. You know, like, it was everything. It was the Mud Club, it was the Peppermint Lounge, it was Haraz, you know, and it was, it was in the early 80s, guys. So you know the bands. Yeah, so I was always at CB's, but it was like 3am you go, why? The is World of Voodoo and our daughter's wedding going on at 3:00am oh, they have a lot of cocaine. That must be it, because I'm. How else could they stay up? You know, Meanwhile, I'd be like, trying to work a part time job, you know, go to school. We'd be sneaking. We'd be going to shows all the time. It was amazing. You could.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

What was the name of the. Of the bar you're in the documentary that John Stewart was the bartender at?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, City Gardens.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

It was a big garden where.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, I just mentioned it.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Great documentary, guys.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I need to tell you that I saw so many great shows there back in the 80s. I saw like, everyone, like, I, you know, I saw Gang of Four's first two shows. There, the Furs, you know, like Thompson twins. And there were like eight people in the band, you know what I mean? Like Ministry opening for somebody, you know, like it was, you know, Pete Shelley. I mean, everybody played there.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Replacements, you know, like, I'm so jealous of those Earl. I've seen a bunch of those. By the way. Did you. Because you and I met when Josh. I went with him to Gang of Four at Roxy. And they just played like a week ago at the Fonda, right around the corner from where I dj. And I was like, I hope. I wonder if Matt. I don't know if you were up for it or if you were in town, but I was like, I wonder if Matt got. I heard great things about that show.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I would have loved to have gone. I mean, I like, you know, I have John King. I remember driving. I used to have this thing where I would. Artists would come to do my radio show on the Jersey Shore, you know, in Asbury at the alternative station. And then I ended up driving them back to the. The venue. So. So there were shows where, you know, I have John King and the singer and Andy Gill in my car or the guys from Killing Joke in my car or whatever, you know, from. From Skir do, you know, like, it was just like, you know, it was, it was, it was. That club was amazing where Jon Stewart bartended.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

We.

[Josh Adam Myers]

We had a great time, you know, at that place. Because here's the thing. I always gave away tickets because I was the promotions director and music director at the college station. Yeah, yeah. So. So my. There Randy now the guy who booked the place, he was. I was like, no matter what it was free tickets for everything except the New Order show because it cost him so much to bring them in that. And he played at three in the afternoon and I think they were doing two shows in a day. Like one in the city in the afternoon. Yeah, it was like New Order. It was like literally their first show. It was like when they came over after the shows got canceled when he encouraged committed suit.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Right.

[Josh Adam Myers]

They only had a couple of songs and one single. Yeah, but it was just. Yeah, they played it guys. They played at like three in the afternoon. And it's the only show I ever crazy at City Gardens. You know what I mean?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I bet that was a $4 well spent.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh man. It was only like 5.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Wow.

[Josh Adam Myers]

1980, 80, 81. You know, how do you rank? I'm sorry, I have to ask. Like compared to, you know, we talk about like some of these Scott Weiland and you know, soundgarden Chris Cornell. Like, in terms of the impact on music overall. Like, I'm just curious your. Your thoughts on that.

[Morty Coyle]

Ian Curtis.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Ian Curtis is very, very important. I mean, I think every aspect of what Joy Division are is so important. The whole post punk era, it was. And the thing they now like to call Dark Wave. But there were bands that they were very influential that they inspired, like the Chameleons. And there's a great. There's a great band called the Sound who, you know, were on Corova Records with Echo and the Bunnymen. And, you know, I. I love what my. You know, Nick Harker and I are both on the radio on 88. 5 here. And Nick even said, he goes, dude, if the. If Adrian Borland, the singer of the sound, had looked like Ian McCulloch, they would have been massive. That's right. And it's kind of. So they're band the Comsat Angels. There were these bands that were post punk, very inspired by Joy Division. And they were. And they made some unbelievably great records. There are those three in particular right off the top. You know, the. The Chameleons, the Sound and the Compsat Angels are all worth investigating if you're a Joy Division fan, because they're amazing. There's a sound album called from the Lion's Mouth that is just like one of the most like, important records of the 80s that. That influenced a lot of people, especially like the Sound and in. And. And of course, the Chameleons both inspired Interpol and bands like that. So there would. You know what I mean?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And here it would be Chameleons uk.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

As they do with so many bands.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I don't know if you guys noticed, but they played a year ago this past weekend and I opened for them DJing on stage playing All Vines. Come on. I played all vinyl singles from like, you know, from the 80s and, you know, early 90s that I, you know, because I have a ridiculous amount of singles. I mean, I love, you know, I don't know, I just. When I moved to San Francisco to do a morning show and I found this 19, like 56. I kind of. I can kind of show it to you. I don't know if you can see it right there, but it's like this old, like turntable that played perfectly. That was the woman wrote under it when she bought it. And it was right. One Heartbreak Hotel came out, right. And it's.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Wow.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's an RCA Victor orthophonic high fidelity turntable. You know, it's so cool. I bought it for like. I bought it for a couple hundred bucks. I found it an antique shop and I couldn't believe it played perfectly. And I somehow work put it in my, my old girlfriend's car in San Francisco to drive back to north beach, you know, like, and, But I'm just saying, you know, like. But I, I, those bands, like I said, I'm so glad that Interpol have admitted that the Chameleons are so important. So getting to dj. The point was, in San Francisco, I just, I just started to collect 45s because of the turntable and then I replaced a bunch of them. Although I've had recently. Guys, do you believe somebody in the US Mail? I, I shipped some singles to myself and they slid open the box and they stole like tons of valuable 45s. Oh, my God, two boxes. One came touched and the other one had six singles left in it. And it was like a Thin Lizzie single. A cover of like Trouble Boys by Dave Edmonds and, you know, a couple other things. And the rest of them were all gone.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You know, why? You know, that would be the, that would be the Dejoy Division. That was one of the worst puns I've ever had. But that is actually perfect politically.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I gotta tell you, though. Seriously, though, guys, I mean, that's why, I mean, Joy Division are so important as New Order are both bands, but it's. I don't think anybody really had any inkling how important they were going to become and how influential. I mean, I, I've talked to Peter Oak about it and I. It's just like the, the lasting impact, you know, when they were. Again, it's just like everybody says, it's. They were one of those bands that, you know, it was that or Unemployment and you know, it was like. So they decided to try to do something creative and, and they weren't around for a long time. But it was, if so inspirational and influenced a lot of artists.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And just to catch the audience, I mean, Matt knows this and most of you did because we did the New Order episode. But just to catch the audience up real quick, the Peter Hook and Bernard Sumner were at this famous Manchester Free Trade Union 1976 gig where the Sex Pistols played, who were brought there by the Buzzcocks or the sort of nascent version of the, of the Buzzcocks and were amongst. If you ever watch the movie 24 Hour Party People, which is a great movie. Yeah, Pretty rad representation where he's looking around the room and the People in the room are like, Morrissey. And then the guys from the Buzzcocks. The guys that became, you know, like this. The guys who became that.

[Morty Coyle]

The guy.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Like, they're all at this one. I mean, I'm sure there are people that said they were there that weren't, but these were actually there. And they immediately left and were like, we're starting a band.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

So, you know, Joy Division really comes out of the impetus of punk rock of. Of the. Hey, I. You know, maybe up until then, you didn't think you could do this. This showed you that you could absolutely do it. And you were angry and you could just vent your spleen and be in a rock band, you know, even if you didn't have the most talent based on it. And, you know, art school sort of stuff. And that, you know, that really begins this whole thing, you know, just. I'm saying, just to catch, you know, the audience up. And then they said, let's get. You know, they're looking for a drummer and a singer. First guy that called was a guy named Ian Curtis. And basically Bernard hired him over the phone without ever having heard him sing, you know, based on what he heard. And then a while later, they got Steven Morris. And I think a good. I think a really accurate representation, because I didn't really realize it till looking at it today, was Bauhaus started around the exact same time. But if you look at how Bauhaus continued, because nobody died and because that was maybe more of an accurate representation of what could have happened. Because Peter Hook has said that the direction they went in with more of the dance stuff was likely where they would have gone because they were all turned on by the same sort of things. And that it might have gone in that direction anyway because Stephen Morris is kind of an unsung hero, the drummer in this band.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

He is an absolute machine. Like that stuff. Yes, there are stuff that's programmed in. Martin Hannit did. But some of that stuff that he plays, even when you see him now, he is a metronomic machine.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Through the.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Whole set like that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Realize that. How talented that he was. You know, nobody ever really speaks about that. You know, they. I mean, they talk about the sound, you know, because obviously, but. But it's as a rhythm. As, you know, as a rhythm section. You know, I mean, it was really. It's. It's amazing, him as a drummer and then, you know, and Peter's, you know, just. Just the notes, you. You being a musicians and. And the notes that he's played and the way he plays and the way. The way he puts. You know, he kind of reinvented things. He certainly reinvented things for a while and inspired so many other people. And I think that's what it really takes, you know. We're gonna say something, Josh.

[Morty Coyle]

Well, I was gonna say that we should probably jump into some of the songs on the record. Like, let's pick out, like, what are the most important ones. We don't have a super longer time. We. About a half hour is definitely where.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You want to start.

[Morty Coyle]

Yeah. So, Atrocity Exhibition, based on the 1970 collection of condensed novels by the psychologically provocative English writer JG Ballard, which featured a chapter called why I Want to Ronald Reagan. It also contained the story Crash about. About people who are sexually aroused by car accidents. That was later made into a movie by David Cronenberg.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yes.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Did you ever see that, by the way? That was a. That's a fascinating movie.

[Morty Coyle]

Love Crash.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's got. I like that. It's got. The movie's great. I also love the end of it, that they play Stereophonics maybe tomorrow at the end of the film. Love that song.

[Morty Coyle]

Yeah. Great song.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Morty Coyle]

Good choice.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean. Yeah. And it's. It's. What's this? Kelly. Kelly Jones, birthday of the. Of the Stereophonics today. Just so happened to know that because I'm doing my radio show, and I said, you know, I'm playing maybe tomorrow. Even though they have a good new. Their new record has some really good songs on it. But I guess so after Atrocity Exhibition, which is, by the way, a great song name and a great way to open your album.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

It's a long. Like, this. Is this, like. If you listen to the first album, six minutes.

[Morty Coyle]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I mean, if you listen to the first album, there's one song that's really long on Unknown Pleasures. And then, you know, they put this out and they open a record, because, as you said, the next song is really the. This is the great. It's like a great single. But this one just knocked me out because it's like, here's the six something minute song. Really trying your ears out. When. If they had opened with Isolation, you would have just gone, wow, this is a great pop band.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, exactly.

[Morty Coyle]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's.

[Morty Coyle]

It's. It's. It takes a long time for me to, like, get into this song. It really was something that wasn't like the first listen. I wasn't, like, attracted to it and then. But by the time I did my third or fourth Listen, on the record, I was, like, really into it.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, it takes a while. And by the way, he didn't read the book until after he had already started writing the lyrics. Yeah, he sort of was like, you know, he's like, oh, that's a great title. I'm gonna write this whole thing. And then all of a sudden it was like, I probably should read this. So if anybody asks me.

[Morty Coyle]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

The one other thing about this that we have to bring up is where Ian's state of mind was. We know the sad ending to this, but where his state of mind was. What a lot of people don't know is he was in a marriage to a woman named Deborah. That was sort of falling apart in big part because he was having an affair with a woman named Anahi or Annie. A writer who was in the studio when they were recording this hook has sort of referred to it as the Yoko period, where she was there during this. But he was still with Deborah. He also had a newborn daughter that, you know, at the time. And. And he had, in. During the career of this band had gotten sort of onset epilepsy, having grand mal seizures that came out of nowhere. And they were becoming. They were becoming frequent to the point where. And he was trying to kind of hide it, but they were becoming frequent on stage, in the car, after gigs, like, during the recording, he would just hit the ground or hit his head on the sink. And then he would sort of try to. Oh, guys, I don't know what happened. So there was. There was a lot of turmoil in his life. And obviously now we have. I mean, my sister's epileptic. Now we have Dilant and, like, different things.

[Morty Coyle]

Oh, wow.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, it would have been. You would have been. You know, you would have been like, Thorazine up, you know, like, just to make sure. And so the idea of looking at a life like that with everything else that was going on. A lot of the lyrics on this record and some stuff on the last record will reflect where he was at in a state of mind. Because obviously Atrocity Exhibit is a big thing. But even stuff like isolation off, you know, this or off the first album, there are things she's lost control about a woman who has epilepsy is.

[Morty Coyle]

Is new. Is Isolation more of, like, a New Order song? Because I kind of hear a little bit more New Order and in Isolation.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That would be the direction that they were things and that they were already leaning in that way and not being afraid to take chances like that. I think, you know, it's amazing. And you know, it's a great cover of Isolation. Speaking of amazing artists, my Mark Lanigan did a version of it with Cold Cave that's really.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Wow.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Check out online, there's a live. There's like a in studio, like kind of performance video they made of it, which is a great version. And of course Mark Lanigan, so it was so amazing. And you know, I got, I got to spend like time with him. But we. And he loved Jordavision too, of course. So that's why they ended up doing that song together. And their version is really cool. So I suggest people listening if you're Joy Division fan or Mark Lanigan Screaming Trees fan.

[Morty Coyle]

Yeah. Not to, not to like just speak in isolation. I mean, what does that got to be like, waking up in the hospital, like when you tell us about it. Hey everybody. So you guys have probably heard me talk about how I've been in bands my whole life. I love writing songs and performing in front of crowds. Just like with comedy. As a musician, it can be kind of hard to cut through the noise and really stand out as an artist. I feel like half the music projects I've been in have ended just because we couldn't figure out the answer to that eternal question of how do we get people to hear us. But then again, that was before there was Distrokid. Distrokid is a digital music distribution service that brings your sound to the masses. It's a one stop shop for getting your songs on itunes, Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube Music, Amazon, Deezer, Tidal, and many more. What's these? I never even heard of Deezer. How many of them are there? I know that's like the holy grail of streaming services though. And getting paid. They want to. We want to get you paid for your music. That's huge because a lot of bands go broke before they get big. But Distrokid collects earnings and payments and sends 100% of these earnings to artists minus banking fees and applicable taxes. And that's just one of the tons of benefits of using Distrokid. You can send big files to anyone with their Instant Share feature. You can use the Hyper Follow feature to promote your release and get pre saves on your song. You can even create personal landing pages for yourself, your band, your brand, and whatever you like. It has a free Spotify Canvas generator too to generate your own Spotify Canvas for your songs. And the Mixia feature instantly masters your tracks for higher quality audio. So if you're ready to bring your band to the next level, it's time to check out distrokid. The Distrokid app is now available on iOS and Android. Go to the app or play store to download it. Listeners of this show can get 30% off their first year by going to distrokid.com VIP the 500 that's distrokid.com VIP the500 for 30% off your first year digging. This episode is brought to you by ebay. We all have that piece, the one that's so you. You've basically become known for it. And if you don't yet fashionistas, you'll find it on ebay. That miu miu red leather bomber, the cousteau Barcelona cowboy top or that patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these finds are all on ebay along with millions of more main character pieces backed by authenticity guarantee tea. Ebay is the place for pre loved and vintage fashion ebay things people love.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You know. Well, I guess, I mean, you know, I was just so confused over. There was just so much. There was a lot of drama going on around me at the time and you know, a lot of stuff with, you know, people that I love in my life that I, you know, at at odds with each other and a bunch of other. So it was a very crazy thing to come. It was a wild thing to wake up to and you know, and I, you know, and you know, it's one of those things that it takes, takes a long time to really come to terms with some of those things and that or massive amounts of therapy which I haven't started yet by the way. Physical therapy, occupational therapy. Yes. But I mean, let's be honest, it's like, you know, it was just, it's crazy. I mean, you know, just, I mean a real mind too is, you know, just knowing that your daughters were told you probably weren't going to live through like a, a weekend. It's just, you know, you know, Morty's attack. No, it's like I know how much you love your daughter. I love your videos that you guys doing a car.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You know, we did, we actually did isolation at one point, which is awesome. That's great.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You are teaching her well, which is fantastic. And she's, she's amazing. She's got one of the greatest music educations. You know, Mark Lanigan cover. You were talking about Cold Cave. Yeah.

[Wayne Federman]

Cool, right?

[Morty Coyle]

It's a great song. But when I, when I say like also though, like did you. When you're, when you're heading up from the Hospital. Like, did you just remember the last thing, being over at John's house?

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's all I remember. I mean, that's the last thing I remember. And I. You know, supposedly there are people that came there and there were times where they were. You know, they thought they were having conversations with me, but I was unresponsive and have no memory of that, you know. But I know there was. When I did wake up, I know I was doing. My friend brought his guitar and we did Crybaby Cry by the Beatles.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Wow.

[Josh Adam Myers]

From Everclear was in there playing guitar. I was singing in bed, but I wasn't, I guess, you know, like. Or at least I can. And then I didn't really, like, a lot. Even that coming out of it is cloudy, you know, I mean, because they're. You know, it's just so you're still. Like, things are rec. You know, like, you know, there's just my neural pathways. Of course, I'm rebuilding those right now, too, because. Infecting me.

[Morty Coyle]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

My right side. But I've come a long way. Like, they were blown away. Like, I know people that came and saw me in the hospital there. My old bosses from MTV and, you know, a lot of my friends. And they were, like, really shocked at how the progress that I made already. But, you know, they. The best thing of all was, like, they were in there. I think, like I said, it was Greg Bowen and. And my friend Matt Holmes and. And Allison Hagendorff, who was my assistant at Columbia Records. And she went on, yeah, you know, Spotify music for a long time. But Allison said the story is. And Greg remembers this, and Matt is. That doctor came in, said he's not going to really have a quality of life. He's probably not going. And I kept thinking, wow, was I gonna end up like Johnny Got His Gun in the Metallica video of one? And that was like every. It's always been like. It's like one of those things you fear. I'm like, please don't let that, you know, happen to me. Yeah. And guys, that was really what they were trying to say, what was my quality of life? I mean, Even, you know, Dr. Drew had said that, you know, because of the kind of stroke that I had, he didn't expect me to be able to walk or talk again. And they said, you know. You know, like, he said it only because he cared. It wasn't like, you know, he was like. But he said. He said the likelihood. He wasn't saying never, but he said the likelihood. But those guys were Basically telling my daughter and two of my friends that I was. My radio career was done. So I'm back on the radio now finally, you know, and I. But I.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

But it's been down on the sound, by the way.

[Morty Coyle]

Yeah, I mean, I. You, you look and sound great, buddy. I mean.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Trying to get my feeling back of my right hand. Like, you know, my right hand is, you know, it's still very challenged, but I used to not be able to open it at all, you know, and, you know, now I can make a fist and I can do a bunch of things because I'm constantly working on. That's occupational therapy. And man, you know me, I'm just like, I'm not. I'm not about to quit, you know, And I know I have, you know.

[Morty Coyle]

The strongest dude I know, man.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You are the dude.

[Morty Coyle]

Penfield dude. Penfield will keep on keeping on.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You were already inspiring me in the videos. Like, would you be in the studio? Be like, it's eight in the morning in here and I know we're in the same town. I just woke my daughter up and you're like in the gym before your gig and I'm like, okay, I have no excuse.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You know, And I will tell you this, guys, I've already, you know, without naming names, you know, I've already, you know, had conversations with, you know, like one in particular, a really great guy in entertainment who went through a stroke recently too. And I think that it, you know, his family and his wife wanted me to talk to him, just, you know, to kind of put him in, you know, to help, you know, help build spirits, man, because it's hard. It's a hard thing. And it's not easy. You know, there's good days and bad days, you know, it is, you know, and, you know, a lot of things that we take for granted. You know, we either have to rebuild and build new neuro pathways and hopefully we get as much close back to what we were as we can. But. But, you know, that's one of the things that I want to do is help others who've been through strokes. And I'm already doing that just to, you know, help some other people just get it. Help. Help their mindset so they know they're certainly not alone. And it's worth fighting back for to try and get there. And it's not easy. You know, I'm gonna have good and bad days, but I'm here, man, and at least I get, you know, like, I just remember, you know, being in the second hospital, my daughter Call me up. And she's. My. My. My youngest daughter called me, and she was in, you know, Florida, and she called and said. She. She cried and said, you know, how glad she was that I was still here. Both of them, of course, you know, and so I'm grateful. I got a lot of gratitude to be live, man. I'm.

[Morty Coyle]

You know, you need to write a book called how to have a Massive Stroke and Be on the radio within Two months.

[Josh Adam Myers]

A lot of staff from both radio stations, from KLOS and from kcsn, my friends are. You both were coming to the hospital, and they're like, dude, we could stick a microphone in front of you now. I would have liked that.

[Morty Coyle]

But they could write that book, dude. Write that book, because you are. You are a work art, bro. It's crazy. That's. That's what, like, I got so excited when I. When I found out you were going to come on Today, man. Because it's like. Yeah, it's like. It really is. Since the journey of this show. Like, you were on so early when me and Morty and Jeremiah, we didn't.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Have the Spotify deal.

[Morty Coyle]

We didn't have this, dude. Yeah, we didn't have the Spotify deal.

[Josh Adam Myers]

We didn't have anything, dudes.

[Morty Coyle]

And we were doing all the Young Come to My House, Hunter's Birthday, David Bowie stories. Come on, dude. But. But Jeremiah, Jeremiah. Jared, you remember when you showed up at my house and just. Do you remember when he showed up my house with, like, a staple gun and sound padding and then completely changed my kitchen?

[Josh Adam Myers]

You know, it's great. I made new friends. When I hung with you guys, like, it was, like, cool. You know what I mean? And you weren't that far away either, Josh. It was great. You were right down the street.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, he was down the street. Yeah. Yeah.

[Morty Coyle]

I was a block away. I was a block away. And. And. And so. But it was like, from the beginning of the show, like, you were one of my. I mean, you were like. The second you came on, I was like, oh, he's gonna come on all the time. And then you got busy, and then we got Wayne Fetterman, and I was like, I guess Wayne Fetterman's our guy, because Fetty Wap is just the exact opposite of me, dude. And you're. I always feel like you're me if I come on. Yeah, dude. Brotherly connection. It's. It's a blessing to have you here right now, man. We love it.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I was saying, Matt is. Today is Ian Hunter's Birthday speaking.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Who I love, by the way.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. And Susie Quatro.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Speaking of which, we talked about Motuble Man. You know what's really. I. I came back to me and I realized a song I played by Ian Hunter Matah on the radio before my stroke was Rest in Peace, which is wild when you think about that. It's on the live of the Live Motto Hoople album. It was also B side. And it's an amazing song, but it's. I thought about that late later and I was like, why am I. That song came into my head. I hadn't heard listened to it in years, and I always loved it. It's like a.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

A.

[Josh Adam Myers]

It's like a. You know, it's like a. A slow, almost ballady song.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I can already see JT reaching for it.

[Morty Coyle]

I must find it in the middle of conversation. Drop song. Can we get the sticker going, jt?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Because I was on the air that day. You know what I mean? Like, I'm. Like, I had recorded my show for. On Sunday for the Monday, and. And then I went over to Johnny Tempestos and, you know, like, I was helping him do some tech stuff and. And just working on some. And then next thing you know, I'm like, johnny, I'm not feeling good. You might want to give my girlfriend a call. And the ambulance, you know, it was like that. It was a. It was a rough.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, that's a. Greg. Greg sort of kept me up on that. By the way, it's. That's a perfect segue to the next song because based on the Jewish. None of these guys are Jewish, but based on. Based on the. The Jewish holiday of Passover, which is when the angel of death, we know, saw the sign on the door and passed over of certain people. I'd say that, you know, that's kind of apropos for somebody that, I mean, not to put too fine a point on it. Dodged a hell of an angel with this one. I mean, you had better angels looking out for you.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You know, it's really crazy, guys. There's. There's moments where, you know, they said that in the hospital. There were times when I was saying, I just have to say goodbye. I just have to say goodbye. And then, like. And that's what I was saying, and then I wasn't, you know, saying, you know, it's just wild. You know, there's things that I've been told that I said early on, like within the first day or something, before I went into a deep coma from the immersion pneumonia on Top of the stroke, which was just a crazy thing. It's. Hey, but I'm here. I'm just grateful, man. And for anybody who's listening, if you ever had a loved one or who had a stroke. My dad had one, too. You know, years ago in his class.

[Morty Coyle]

My dad died. My dad died. He had a massive. He had a. A tear in his heart. And then they saved him in this, like, miraculous surgery, right? It was in Philly. Went to the right hospital with the right surgeon. Everything saved him. And then he went back, and he's kept having these little procedures done because his heart is. The heart would, like, beat a little off, and they take him in, and he went in to get a stint put in, and then he had a stroke and died. So. Dude, strokes are no joke. I mean, you know, it's. It's. You're. The fact that you came out of it. I mean, with everything else that's happened to you, too, Matt. I mean, Jesus Christ, dude.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Like aneurysm. Yeah. And then, you know, like. And they being hit by a car, like, you know, around, like, you know, that whole 2000s, you know, what was. That's why you say you're a cat. Nine lives. I don't know what we're on now. I'm grateful. I've definitely used.

[Morty Coyle]

You have at least seven more accidents in you. You can really go for it. Like, you need to go.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You need to go squirrel.

[Morty Coyle]

Squirrel suit diving.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Morty Coyle]

Like, you should do anything where you get where death is just remotely on the.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Just. I think one of the things I did when I first. When I was first getting, like, the la. Like, when I first got sober again, like, back in, you know, like, 2000. What. It was in 2024. 2020. I mean, I'm sorry. And I was, like, going. I went like, all right, so I'm sober. I'm gonna do some. Because the guy like this. So guy. Super group of guys are like, dude, come out to the desert, ride four. Four, you know, like four wheelers with us. And, you know, and with the roll bars, you know, taking out these razors, you know. And so I was doing that, and I remember the guy goes to me, you're gonna drive one. I go, I thought I was just gonna watch. He goes, you didn't get sober? Did I take some chances?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I went all over the dunes by the salt and scene. Everywhere out there. And I never flip the thing. But the next. So. So he goes to me, all right, two weeks, we're going skydiving. So I did. So I skydived 14000ft, which is.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Jesus Christ.

[Morty Coyle]

You still have three more lives left. I enjoy Division. You can. You can die a few more times.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I hope you got a roll.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Of course.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Quarters.

[Morty Coyle]

This is me doing Joy Division singing about Matt Penfield. You could die a few more times.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Three. Does he have seven? We'll find out. How many lives. But lining across the crowd of rock and real also was pretty nerve wracking. I won't lie to you guys. Once I climb a tower of seven, almost 800ft. That was scary. I was like, what the. What possessed me to do that? It was a dare. But guess what guys, I'm. I'm living less dangerously from now on in because I'm so grateful to live to be alive that I'm just gonna. You know.

[Morty Coyle]

Right. Amazing by the way.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

So just catch the audience up also. Yeah. Martin Hannit, who was the producer and also a co co owner. Founder of. Of the record label. You know that this was on Factory the. You know, with. You know, at the time. He went on to produce certain ratio huge bands of this sort of generation. But you know, the band was not ha. Unknown Pleasures was the first record and there were singles too. But the band was not happy with how this record and the first record came out. They pictured themselves more like a punk band. They really did think that they were going to be like this. And when you hear these records now, we look at them as this weird. You know. Isolated.

[Morty Coyle]

Yeah, well. So my question is where. Because if they wanted to be. Because the music doesn't sound what I would call like punk punk. If you're like. Like. Like the Sex Pistols or some. Or the Ramones. Was the live show just insane though? Like what was the live show for a Joy Division?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

If you ever watch Ian. Ian had this real jerky weird sort of thing. But the band was. They were not overly. They were not remarkable as far as a band, Matt. I mean you saw them early on, new to. In a new order. Which wasn't far off. I mean basically they were.

[Josh Adam Myers]

They were. I'm going to just say it. What is the truth? Neither. You know, like. I mean Joy Division stuff is really cool to watch. I love the footage when you get to see some of those performances because you see the roots of, you know, a bunch of guys that were like, you know, like busting against the odds, you know, like playing like it was their last chance ever. And that's really what was so great about a lot of the punk and post punk bands that Era, they didn't. What else were they gonna do? You know what I mean? It was like. It's either that or remain on the dole with no promise. And it was like a thing, you know, in their lives. But, I mean, they were. They were. There was. They were cool. And I saw so many bands in that era that came through America, you know, in Asbury park or in Trenton or in New York City or Philly. I saw so much music. So. But I. But I. You know, they were. I won't lie, New Order, when they first played, were underwhelming live. And again, I said, Bernie, you know, was very uncomfortable taking Ian Curtis's place because he just didn't, you know. And also they had choose to fill. Yeah. And they had not written the first record yet. You know what I mean? So they just. They just had that single out. So it was a very. It was a short show and it was. But, you know, again, the records, they had so much promise and that's why so many people have loved to cover this stuff. And then, you know, we're talking about. Since we're talking about. About this album Closer. I mean, I. I gotta say is that once again, the band had some of the greatest artwork of all time, you know, Albums.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

New Alb.

[Morty Coyle]

Right. Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

But what's great about this song in particular also is if you are a fan of New Order or a fan of Peter Hook or a fan of the band. This is the first one where he used the six string bass, where he introduces this sound, which, if you don't know, a lot of the stuff you're hearing in New Order that you think is guitar is Peter Hook playing the high strings on the bass, honestly. So, like, a lot of that. Like that kind of stuff that you might think is Bernard.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No, he was carrying a lot of melody. He was so inventive as a bass player, especially when you think about the limitations of where they started. But he created his own sound. That's the thing that was so brilliant about. I know you agree with me. It's like Peter created his own sound and basically that was a sound that so many other people followed later on. And he did. You know, it's like. It's almost like Steve Jones teaching himself how to play guitar. It's out of necessity, you know what I mean? And then having this iconic sound that is all their own, you know what I mean? It's. It's just an incredible thing. Now, is that the same dog that you had when you lived out here?

[Morty Coyle]

It's like a dog.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Oh, by the way, I am. I am loathe to jump the shot, but I just found out with the most amazing news. And it's. It's a Hollywood thing, but it's a Pee Wee thing. And it's so Jambi. If you. The Pee Wee Herman documentary is on, and I urge people to watch it. They mentioned Jambi in it, and it turns out I never put it together. The actual plate. There was a. There was a restaurant on Hollywood Boulevard. There was a place that made sandwiches that was owned by my best friend's dad in the 70s. The late 70s. And that's bees. The son is bee's godfather, but that's Jambies was their fur was the first name and their middle names put together. And we used to hang out there during the summers in the late 70s and then go to the Egyptian and watch movies. And so. And I never even thought they go, yeah. We just happen to look at the restaurant and say, oh, John me. That's a good name. And now I'm like, oh, my God, that's on Josh's arm. I'm like, that's direct.

[Morty Coyle]

That's like a dog. Dude rules.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. To my best friend growing up, which is just the craziest coincidence.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That's amazing.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

That's just absolutely.

[Morty Coyle]

Yeah, dude. That's. What. That's my girl. She's eight and a half, and she looks like she's six. Like, nobody. She doesn't look old. She's in great health. This dog. This dog rules. Love like a dog. I was. I was, like, reminded, though. Jared, do you remember padding up? Like, just how early? It's just you've come through three different stages of the podcast too, Matt, which has been so cool. You came early on pre padding, I think. Then you came padding, and now you've got New York version.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah. Which is cool. So at least I'm following you around and it's a good thing.

[Morty Coyle]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You know, I love you guys. So it's like, so you know that. That's the thing.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I. I even bombed this episode just because I said Matt's gonna be on. I also.

[Morty Coyle]

I needed help today, dude. I am. I do not feel good.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Like, I'm.

[Morty Coyle]

I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna hit the bathroom the second this is done. And just either or Matt could carry this entire episode. But, like, yeah, this was, like, what a perfect episode for me to not feel good.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

By the way, this is a good record.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Come on.

[Morty Coyle]

Oh, yeah, this is. This is Mishmoka.

[Josh Adam Myers]

All right.

[Morty Coyle]

All right, so we gotta start wrapping this up. Like, one of the main things we got to talk of. Like, if we got a few more minutes with this, like. Like, what do we. What do we have to mention?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Side one. I mean, side two is. Is pretty epic as far as. I mean, here's what you have to remember. So for the audience listening, if we haven't already said this, they do their first album. Not a lot of success. It's okay. Does okay. They put out a couple singles. John Peel, once again, who is a great radio guy. I don't know if. Matt, did you ever get a chance to meet John Peel?

[Josh Adam Myers]

I had lunch with John Peel at the Hotel Havisham In. In. In 19. What was it, 1992. Yeah, yeah. Reading 92 in Nirvana. I was there backstage. Nirvana one night, headlining, Public Enemy the other night. And the Wonder stuff. Who. I was really involved. I'm on one of their albums and I love those guys. They were the three headliners. And John Peel, they. You know, Miles Hunt and some other people I knew there set it up so I could meet up with John Peel at the Hotel Coversham in the. You know, in the. And we met, had lunch. It was cool. I got so much respect for John Peel and he was a lovely guy. We talked about T. Rex and, you know, of course, because he was so involved and he loves the Undertones, Teenage Kicks, you know, was. It was. He seemed, you know, he's just such an important guy, so I'm glad I got to meet him. And he was really cool and.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And John Peele is that guy that gave the chances, like, And.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And all those great bands. Right?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. Every. And his sessions. And so I want to. I'm sure Josh will want to tie this back also, but for this, he, you know, they go. They get ready to do the second album we talked about. Ian's going to, you know, break up. He's. He's in a bad state physically, mentally. A lot of things are going on, but. Just had a baby. And then they get ready to do this record. The. The epilepsy, the. The seizures are increasing. And then they. They record Level Terrorists Apart, which, I'm sorry, isn't on either of these records, but they do level Terrorists Apart.

[Josh Adam Myers]

And these days, that single.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. And then the day before embarking on the American tour. Remember, even according to the band, Ian wanted to be a rock star. I mean, the thing about Ian, which a lot of people I think that sort of cop. Ian's monotone delivery is if you really listen he wanted to be David Bowie, you know?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I think he wanted to be. I think he wanted to be.

[Morty Coyle]

The loudest ringer is the phone on top of the computer. Because that thing that went into my ears, dude, that would.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

That sounds like a life alert. I want to make sure you've fallen and can get up. Yeah, no, that was a. I'm falling and I. Yeah, that was. But that's the thing is he wanted to show me David. He wanted to be David Bowie, but he just sang at the best of his ability. And, like, a lot. We've talked about this a lot. Like a lot of other artists, people get on the train where they think you are, but they don't realize that you're doing your best to sort of sound like the people that influence you. So all these bands that kind of came out later sounding like this, we're doing the best Ian could do at probably emulating Bowie during the Munich, I mean, during the Berlin years, you know, which would have been right up against this bowie, you know, 72, bowie, glam. And then he's in Germany doing, you know, you Look Back in anger and, you know, these kind of, you know, these very austere. You know, remember the name of the band originally was Warsaw, you know, which is, you know, a side of a Bowie, German, you know, song. And I know you were tight with Bowie as well. You know, not to go off on that tangent because, you know, I know how fond of each other you were, you know. But I want to say, for somebody I grew up, I'm sure Josh and JT had the same thing. I grew up as you, with you as a personality on 120 minutes minutes even before anything else. Obviously, I didn't know anything about your career prior to that or DJing, because we were out here years later, we found out we had mutual friends like Jill and other people, but like John Peel, I, I. You, you and I know you know this, but the outpouring when you were in the hospital, and I believe you were at the same hospital where my dad had passed away, so it took on kind of a. Took on a resident, and I was born across the street from there. So it was. It's a lot. It sort of was. It was very. It was your thing, but it was very triggering to me as well. And. But to see the outpouring, I mean, I know you're aware of it in retrospect, but in real time, when people really didn't know how they were going to go to see the outpouring of Musician people, everyone. But musicians across the world who owe such a tremendous debt to you because you're not just a paycheck guy. You're like me and Josh. We. We are. We live and die for the music. And to see the. And to see that Green Day basically brought you back into the world by honoring you, by having you give them the introduction to getting their star on the Walk of Fame. I mean, just that alone is. Is, you know, how many was.

[Josh Adam Myers]

How many are gonna do. How many are you going to introduce at this now?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Everybody wants us.

[Josh Adam Myers]

I know. Like, I would take that if I get so lucky. Josh, you gotta emcee it. Oh, I'm there for you guys. You know, that's what it is. It was. It's true, because I just. No, I mean. I mean, meaning, like, I'm just very grateful. I mean, that pouring was amazing. And it's people that, you know, like, you know, people showed me to post like, like later, like, even when I first came out, but I still was, like, kind of. They were. I was staying off social media, to be honest with you, you know, for a while and. But, you know, somebody had sent me a text that Mick Jones of the Clash sent me, and, you know, like, you know, Paul Weller posted about it and, you know, about mold and all these different. All different people, you know, so just take the Clash in the jam right there. That's two. You know what I mean? And sugar, you know, But, I mean, there's so many beautiful ones. I think the stuff that Garbage wrote, that Shirley wrote was beautiful, man. And so many people. I, I was so honored. And speaking of which, Peter Hook was another guy who, who reached out, which. From. From Joy Division and New Order, which was. Which was great. I mean, it means. I mean, I. My heart is just like. It's, It's. I, I. I have so much, so much love and appreciation for every breath that I'm able to take at this point.

[Morty Coyle]

You deserve it, bud. We love you. We love you, dude. I'm so.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I'm so glad you went through it. Sorry. Go on. Yeah, but I'm glad you got to see the outpouring.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You actually have, you know, not so many people. How cognizant. I mean, a lot of people never get that opportunity to know how appreciated and love they are in a certain community. And, you know, to be a musician and, you know, to know you. The outpouring was not just, hey, a guy, you know, it was, this is. This person was instrumental in our success and for championing us similarly to John Peel in a way that I. If you're under a certain age, because I don't know how you get your music nowadays, TikTok or however. But to know that at one point in time we could turn on mtv and MTV had already started going in a direction of not really having a lot of identification. For a lot of people like my age who grew up with mtv, you were the absolute like, hey guys, this is why music is important. You brought college radio, so to speak to mtv. And so, you know, like similar to Rodney Bingenheimer, we would probably have never gotten the opportunity to seen so many of the artists that now are just. You just say, oh yeah, that's whatever. You know, dude, you know, on the way up. Yeah, I mean you. And you can go by, you can look in YouTube, you guys can find so many clips with the first time these people are appearing nationally with Matt, you know, as Matt, as the host. And Matt is not just going, yeah, yeah, come on. Anyway, let's go to a commercial and who gives a shit? Like, Matt's on there and you can tell he listened. You can tell he knows their influences. You can tell that he might have a relationship with them prior from the radio. It's. It is such a. It really is an invaluable position that you held at that time. And I give kudos to MTV for taking that chance. I know Lewis did it and I know some other people did it, but you were the guy that I was. I remember seeing you once at the Viper Room and thinking, that's Matt Penfield. Like, that's Matt. That's the guy from MTV who breaks the man, like, who breaks artists that shouldn't get to be on mtv. And you gave them that opportunity and that. Yeah, I think.

[Morty Coyle]

And well, we're definitely going to have you back now that it's like, you know, you. I would love for you to come. We have about 150 some odd episodes left. So you'll be back, dude, I'm so happy.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Thank you for saying that, Morty. Thank you for all that and thank you.

[Morty Coyle]

We love you, buddy.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Jeremiah. I love you guys and it's just. It's great to be alive and, you know, I enjoyed. I feel at home with you guys. You know, you guys are like. You guys are brothers, you know, you know, famous.

[Morty Coyle]

All right, so let's wrap this up. So, favorite song on this record.

[Josh Adam Myers]

You know, we mentioned it. Isolation's still my favorite song on this record. It just is. It just grabbed a hold of me when I. When I first heard it, I mean, I was certainly open at that period of time to the stuff that was becoming the post punk stuff that was very dancy. So I love the sound of that. Although I love. You know, I love this record, and I. I'm not sure which one I love more, this one or Unknown Pleasures. I might, you know, I don't know if, you know, which one I would pick as my favorite of the two.

[Morty Coyle]

Yeah. Is there anything you skip over on this record?

[Josh Adam Myers]

You know, I usually listen to this record in one listen, but I will tell you that, you know, like meat all together. But, you know, do I skip over something? You know, I don't know. I think most of those. Some of those songs ended up on that, like, still record, like, you know, like the stuff. Yeah. And you know what I love, which was. Which was Dead Souls, of course, and Nine Inch Nails Cover that, which was, you know, written around that same time. What up?

[Jeremiah Watkins]

You know, I'm a fan of digital, which nobody ever brings up. And they hate that pedal. They hate.

[Josh Adam Myers]

No one's talking about Passover. We have so many Jewish people on this show.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

No, and. And I was gone. And I. I like how. I like how they even said. We're not even really sure why he wrote this song. We're sort of sure. Not really sure why he wrote this.

[Morty Coyle]

Definitely not Jewish.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

I think he. I think he had studied divinity, if I'm not mistaken. So it might have been an Old Testament thing.

[Morty Coyle]

Pizza, matza and br.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. You think. You think that's hard? Try passing Matzah for a week.

[Morty Coyle]

Hello. Hey. New melon.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Guys. Third song.

[Morty Coyle]

Can you guys. You're gonna love. You hate when I ask this, Morty, but can you. To this record, Matt, you know.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah.

[Morty Coyle]

Repertoire. Pull this out?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, I kind of feel like you can to any record. You know what I mean? It depends.

[Morty Coyle]

It's true. Yeah. But I feel like this one's got a little. You could do it. It's got the beat. What would. What would be your way to, like, sum up this record? What's your. What's your elevator pitch to get someone to listen to this?

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, what would I say in particular, you know?

[Morty Coyle]

Yeah. How do you get. How would you. What would you say?

[Josh Adam Myers]

I mean, I would say that it's something that definitely deserves your time to at least listen to it once and listen to a band that was literally, I really believe, like, you know, every single stroke of a band like that. And they're not the only band who was like this, obviously. At that period of time, you know, played or played every. Every gig. Like it was their last, you know, it might be their last. You know, it's. It sounds like a band in desperation in. In many ways to me. Not really completely sure of what the future holds, but are going to do it and hold on as long as they can. Yeah, a period of time. And that's how I feel about. Wow.

[Morty Coyle]

I love it. I love it. So where can they find you? Where's was the radio? Like, what's going on?

[Josh Adam Myers]

Like on the SoCal sound, which is the, you know, you can hear me on the radio there. You know, I'm going back on KLOS and Flashback, the other syndicated show I have. So, yeah, I'll be back on the radio pretty much everywhere, like very shortly.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And we are so happy to see the post because I see them all the time. And shout out to Gary Calamar who's also.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Yeah, Gary. Such a great dude, isn't he? Yeah. You know, you can always look for me on Instagram it's at Matthew Pinfield and you know, and on X, same thing. It's a map infield and Matthew Pinfield, I think on Facebook it's all that. But you know, it's. That is.

[Morty Coyle]

We'll find you. We'll promote. We'll promote the hell out of it. Morty, if you want to give a shout out.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, yeah, I mean, just, I mean like I said, I get a kick every morning when I get a little thing that says Matt likes your. Like Matt likes your post or whatever when I post the ones with the kid. But yeah, DJ Morty Coil on most of the social media and then check out Master Fleece Theater with me, Josh and Wayne Fetterman and jt just talking about adjunct stuff. And Matt, if you ever want to come on that. I mean, I think at one point you were the idea of sort of we just talk about anything that we haven't covered. So we don't. We're not record specific, but that's available to Patreon and get some of the merch. I want to see some of the new merch. It's kind of. I want to get some of that.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Almost 5, 000 subscribers on. Yeah, the 500 podcast.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

And so all of that. But are you at the same place? Not giving any information away? Are you the same place? Yeah.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Oh, okay.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Okay. So.

[Morty Coyle]

Okay.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Okay. So okay. I know that Stanley.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Almost 10k views.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah. So I just wanted. So I just wanted. So if you're ever around, come by. Good Times. If you ever feel like going out Davey Wayne's hang out or whatever.

[Morty Coyle]

Yeah, dude, we love you, buddy.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Yeah, we'll go get lunch when Josh isn't down.

[Morty Coyle]

I'd love that.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

By the way, Jelly Roll is opening. I don't know if you're going to be in town. Jelly Roll is opening for Post Malone.

[Morty Coyle]

Oh, he's here this week.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

He's here this week or something. Somebody just asked me to write an article for the episode. I mean for the show. But just in case you. We were out here, you know, I didn't know.

[Morty Coyle]

I'm going. I'm going to see him this Wednesday, guys.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Okay.

[Josh Adam Myers]

All right.

[Morty Coyle]

Love you guys. Matt, we love you, buddy.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Thanks.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

So great.

[Morty Coyle]

Nothing but love what I tell you. What I tell you. The one and only Matt Penfield. Follow him on social media at Matthew Penfield. On Instagram, listen to the Matt Penfield show from 4 to 6 on the SoCal Sound app or 88.5 FM in the LA area. Now we just listened to Closer by Joy Division. Our new music pick this week, brought to you in part by Distrokid, is Take Me Back by by Chris Berardo. You can find links to the music on the website the500podcast.com and if you were in a band or were directly influenced by one of these albums or artists, you want your music Featured on the 500 website, send your song to 500podcastgmail.com. Make sure you put the album and artist that influenced you in the subject line. Next week it's Paul's Boutique week as we go deep into the Beastie Boys Paul's Boutique. I said it twice. I was that excited. It's number 156. Guys. We'll see you then. Bye bye.

[Wayne Federman]

Turn inside out and tear my sin away Roll me over a throat Cause I have a twist Life and turn but I still believe Cause I am still breathing but tonight my mind roll back when my young heart suits a breath Every wild and perfect dream Laid out in front of me. Take take me back to my own home Raise me up Take back where I started again Heal me now I am brought broken Take me back let me start again I'm breathing in the thick green spring the salt air tide the young girl's golden hair there and I'd give I have one more moment.

[Morty Coyle]

There.

[Wayne Federman]

Now I'm bearing the cross of time A scar upon my skin for every time I have weakened through the last But I have way but tonight I'll close my eyes Let my heart remember when Maybe if the wind is right I'll be back to hell again Take me back to my home Raise me up Take me back where I started again Heal me now I am am broken Take me back, let me start again but now my mind rolls.

[Morty Coyle]

Back.

[Wayne Federman]

When my young heart flew so free and every wild and perfect dream.

[Josh Adam Myers]

That I'm.

[Wayne Federman]

Take me back to my old.

[Morty Coyle]

Home.

[Wayne Federman]

Raise me up Take me back where I started again Here I me now I am broken Take me back let me start again the 500.

[Morty Coyle]

Keeping it flee see.

[Wayne Federman]

For the fleece.

[Morty Coyle]

Nation.

[Wayne Federman]

On the 500. The 500.

[Morty Coyle]

Hey, folks. So here at the 500, we want to create the best overall listening experience. And even though we've been at this for almost seven years now, we know there's still some things we could be doing better. That's why we would appreciate your feedback about the show so we can learn more about you guys, my beloved fleece army, and what you're into. That way, we can provide the best experience for our audience and sponsors who support the show. So please go to theshowsurvey.com 500 to take a very short anonymous survey. It would really help the pod. And as our way of saying thanks, survey participants will be entered into a drawing towards win $100Amazon gift certificate. Again, that's the showsurvey.com 500 for the quick survey to help the show. Each week we'll select a winner for participating. As always, thank you for listening and stay fleecy. All right, here we go.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

New Phineas and Ferb is here.

[Josh Adam Myers]

We're back, baby.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

For 154 more days.

[Morty Coyle]

I know what we're gonna do.

[Jeremiah Watkins]

Today of summer vacation.

[Morty Coyle]

I am ready for summer shenanigans.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Let's do it.

[Morty Coyle]

Oh, yeah. We're gonna bust Fideus Burp once and for all.

[Josh Adam Myers]

Are we gonna do this again?

[Morty Coyle]

New inventions, shenanigans, inators, adventures and songs.

[Wayne Federman]

Brand new summer vacations.

[Morty Coyle]

New Phineas and Ferb starts June 5th on Disney Channel and next day on.

[Matt Penfield]

Disney on disneyplus.disney.com Next Chapter Podcasts.