Podcast
The 80/20 Principle
Hosted by Ernie Svenson · EN
Tech and AI recommendations for solo and small-firm lawyers. The 20% that actually matters, not the hype and shiny objects that don't.
Hosted by Ernie Svenson — a former big-firm litigator turned solo, then coach to lawyers learning technology. He's been doing this for 20+ years.
Episodes are short and practical. Tool reviews, AI explainers, and stories from coaching lawyers — focused on what's worth your time and what isn't.
Beyond the podcast, Ernie runs a private community called the Inner Circle — a collective R&D department for solo and small-firm lawyers who can't build one alone. To learn more visit: https://ernietheattorney.net/
15episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
326: Perplexity for Lawyers: AI Research With Sources
Yesterday00:08:03Tap to summarizeIn this episode, we cover Perplexity—what it is, how it works, and why it deserves attention from solo and small firm lawyers. Ernie explains how Perplexity differs from traditional Google research by using AI to search the live web, synthesize answers, and provide footnoted citations so lawyers can quickly verify the sources behind the response. You'll also hear practical examples of how lawyers are using Perplexity to research opposing counsel, evaluate expert witnesses, get oriented in unfamiliar areas of law, and test assumptions with sourced answers. Whether you are new to AI research tools or already using ChatGPT, Claude, or Gemini, this episode gives you a clear foundation for understanding where Perplexity fits—and why the next episode's conversation with Richard Serpe will make much more sense. Chapters *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-(--header-height)" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "c9c2e10c-c222-4dda-96fc-a25e253f5f32" data-testid= "conversation-turn-1" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn="user"> *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "request-WEB:b3210431-d026-4045-b30d-b7c09679a93c-2" data-testid= "conversation-turn-2" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn= "assistant"> 0:05 Perplexity Episode Overview 1:17 Smith AI Sponsor 2:49 Perplexity Basics 4:35 AI Landscape Comparison 6:27 Lawyer Use Cases 8:00 Paid Features 8:59 Perplexity Computer Preview 10:08 Inner Circle Invitation Resource Links AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) LinkedIn post by attorney offering AI chatbot that protects privilege The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
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325: Copilot Doubt To Power
4w ago00:28:07Tap to summarize*]:pointer-events-auto [content-visibility:auto] supports-[content-visibility:auto]:[contain-intrinsic-size:auto_100lvh] R6Vx5W_threadScrollVars scroll-mb-[calc(var(--scroll-root-safe-area-inset-bottom,0px)+var(--thread-response-height))] scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" data-turn-id= "request-WEB:209964d7-bb1a-4960-b41a-618e44294208-1" data-testid= "conversation-turn-4" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn= "assistant"> In this episode, we talk with tax litigator Brandon Siegal about why Microsoft Copilot has gone from a disappointing experiment to a genuinely useful AI tool for legal work. We unpack what changed with Microsoft's latest updates, including direct Word editing, deeper research capabilities, and new ways to connect AI with the documents and systems lawyers already use every day. You'll also hear Brandon explain his "braiding" approach—combining multiple AI tools so they strengthen each other's output—and why he believes Google Gemini remains one of the most overlooked options for lawyers. Whether you are testing Copilot, comparing AI platforms, or building a smarter workflow, this conversation offers practical ideas for getting more value from the tools available right now. Chapters *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-(--header-height)" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "c9c2e10c-c222-4dda-96fc-a25e253f5f32" data-testid= "conversation-turn-1" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn="user"> *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "request-WEB:b3210431-d026-4045-b30d-b7c09679a93c-2" data-testid= "conversation-turn-2" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn= "assistant"> 0:05 Copilot Skeptic To Believer 2:00 Brandon's AI Journey 7:18 Wave 3 And Word Editing 13:02 Braiding Multiple AI Tools 14:46 Deep Research And Cowork23:54 Why Gemini Stands Out Resource Links AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) LinkedIn post by attorney offering AI chatbot that protects privilege The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
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324: Why I switched from ChatGPT to Claude
Mar 2400:12:37Tap to summarizeIn this episode, we explore why a long-time ChatGPT user made the switch to Claude and what ultimately drove that decision. We break down how features like direct file access, structured project workflows, and custom skills are transforming the way lawyers handle complex, document-heavy work. You'll hear how AI can dramatically speed up tasks like course creation, improve writing quality, and act more like a true thinking partner. Whether you're new to AI or already using it in your practice, this episode highlights how choosing the right tool—and setting it up properly—can unlock a whole new level of productivity. Chapters *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-(--header-height)" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "c9c2e10c-c222-4dda-96fc-a25e253f5f32" data-testid= "conversation-turn-1" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn="user"> *]:pointer-events-auto scroll-mt-[calc(var(--header-height)+min(200px,max(70px,20svh)))]" dir="auto" tabindex="-1" data-turn-id= "request-WEB:b3210431-d026-4045-b30d-b7c09679a93c-2" data-testid= "conversation-turn-2" data-scroll-anchor="false" data-turn= "assistant"> 0:05 Why I Switched AI Tools 1:10 Sponsor: Smith AI Overview 2:25 Claude Co-Work Feature 4:10 Building Courses With Claude 7:05 Training Claude & Turning Point 9:30 Skills Feature For Lawyers 12:10 Final Thoughts & Recommendation Resource Links AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) LinkedIn post by attorney offering AI chatbot that protects privilege The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
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323: Revolutionize Your Law Practice with AI and Flat Fees
Feb 2500:16:43Tap to summarizeIn this episode, we explore how lawyers can adapt to rapid AI advancements by shifting from billable hours to outcome-based, flat-fee services. We'll discuss creating a better client journey, using AI to improve research efficiency, and offering privileged, flat-fee AI-driven legal searches as a way to stay relevant and attract clients. Chapters 00:00 Breaking Free from the Billable Hour 05:04 The Shift Towards Client-Centric Outcomes 10:24 Leveraging AI for Legal Services Resource Links AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) LinkedIn post by attorney offering AI chatbot that protects privilege The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
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322: Scaling Smarter: EOS Strategies for Law Firm Growth
Jan 2700:32:45Tap to summarizeIn this episode, we'll examine how AI has made recording conversations effortless—and why that convenience poses legal, ethical, and moral challenges for lawyers. We'll break down the risks of passive and stealth recording, including issues around consent, biometric privacy laws, and client trust. And you'll get simple, practical tips for using recording tools transparently while maintaining professionalism and integrity. Chapter Markers 0:00 Brooke's Legal Industry Background 1:09 Understanding Law Firms as Businesses 2:30 EOS and the Three Buckets 3:09 Becoming an EOS Implementer 6:06 The Six Pillars of EOS 10:04 Handling Toxic High Performers 13:50 Cash Flow Forecasting Basics 16:13 Six Key Numbers to Track 20:24 Owner Compensation & Firm Growth 23:13 Mindset Blocks Around Money 24:42 Hiring Smart vs. Cheap 27:24 Smart Outsourcing Strategies 29:33 Leveraging AI in Law Firms 31:16 EOS Implementation Resources Resource Links AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) Apply to join the ChatGPT Lab The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
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321: Stealth Recording -a Smart Move or Dangerous Ethics Problem?
Jan 2000:11:56Tap to summarizeIn this episode, we'll examine how AI has made recording conversations effortless—and why that convenience poses legal, ethical, and moral challenges for lawyers. We'll break down the risks of passive and stealth recording, including issues around consent, biometric privacy laws, and client trust. And you'll get simple, practical tips for using recording tools transparently while maintaining professionalism and integrity. Chapter Markers 0:00 The Rise of Frictionless Recording 1:00 AI Tools Enable Passive Recording 2:30 Why Lawyers Record Conversations 4:00 Legal Risks of AI Recordings 5:00 Biometric Privacy and AI Tools 6:30 Ethical and Client Trust Issues 7:20 Moral Implications of Covert Recording 8:30 Practical Recording Best Practices 9:45 Transparency, Sharing, and Final Thoughts Resource Links AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) Apply to join the ChatGPT Lab The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
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320: AI in Legal Decision-Making: The Dawn of a New Era
Dec 1600:10:30Tap to summarizeIn this episode, Ernie explains how the American Arbitration Association is now using AI to draft decisions, subject to human review. The discussion covers the importance of transparency, control, and human oversight in the arbitration process, as well as the potential for AI to improve access to justice by making dispute resolution faster and more cost-effective. Key Takeaways AI is not about replacing humans but enhancing their capabilities. The American Arbitration Association is pioneering AI in legal disputes. AI can draft decisions, but humans retain final authority. Transparency and control are crucial in the arbitration process. Party validation ensures fairness and understanding in disputes. Governed AI operates within strict guidelines to ensure accuracy. The system learns from human edits to improve over time. Speed and cost savings are significant benefits of AI arbitration. AI can open doors to justice for underserved populations. This technology may signal a fundamental shift in legal processes. Resource Links AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) Apply to join the AI Lab The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
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319: Gavel Exec: AI Copilot for Legal Drafting
Dec 900:34:42Tap to summarizeShow Notes In this podcast episode, Ernie Svenson interviews Dorna At Gavel, a former attorney turned tech entrepreneur, about her journey in creating Gavel, a legal technology platform. Dorna shares her experiences in building Gavel Workflows and Gavel Exec, tools designed to automate document creation and enhance legal drafting with AI. The conversation explores the integration of these tools with Microsoft Word, the importance of user experience, and the future of AI in the legal field. Dorna addresses common misconceptions about AI, the concept of 'vibe lawyering,' and how these technologies can empower lawyers to focus on more meaningful work while improving efficiency. Takeaways Dorna transitioned from law to tech to help domestic violence survivors. Gavel Workflows automates document creation for legal professionals. Gavel Exec serves as an AI copilot within Microsoft Word. The platform is designed to enhance collaboration and efficiency. AI tools can help lawyers focus on higher-level tasks. Misconceptions about AI include fears of job loss in the legal field. Vibe lawyering encourages creative legal thinking with AI assistance. Training junior associates can be streamlined using AI playbooks. Gavel Exec integrates with existing workflows to improve productivity. The future of legal practice will likely include AI as a standard tool. Resource Links AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
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318: AI is a consensus machine (and here's why that's good for some lawyers)
Nov 2600:07:01Tap to summarizeShow Notes In this episode, Ernie discusses the impact of AI on the legal profession, emphasizing that while AI may replace surface-level tasks, the best lawyers will thrive by focusing on deeper, strategic thinking and understanding complex legal outcomes. Takeaways The best lawyers won't just survive this wave of AI. They're gonna dominate. If your work is mostly surface level, AI is gonna replace you. To remain indispensable, focus on outcomes and hidden risks. Understanding the chessboard of legal scenarios is crucial. Lawyers must evolve their skills to adapt to AI advancements. AI should be seen as a tool, not a replacement. Strategic thinking is key in the legal profession. The future of law requires innovation and adaptation. Surface-level tasks can be automated, but deeper insights cannot. Indispensable lawyers will thrive in the AI era. Resource Links AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
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317: AI, ClioCon, and the Future of Law: What Lawyers Need to Know Now
Nov 400:35:56Tap to summarizeIn this episode, California attorney Jeff Lewis and I discuss the recent Clio conference that took place in Boston, which we both attended along with 2,700 other lawyers. There was a lot of discussion about AI and how its growing adoption will impact lawyers in the coming years. We of course will discuss Richard Susskind's Keynote speech, which was a disturbing warning about the massive disruption AI is likely to bring to the legal profession. Jeff called it a "gut punch" and you'll want to hear why he found Susskind's speech so unsettling. Topics Discussed Clio's New AI Tools and Integration Plans The Legal Trends Report and Data Insights Clio's 1$ Billion V-Lex Acquisition and what it means Peggy Gruenke's KPI Session Takeaways Richard Susskind's take on AI and the Future of Law AI Adoption Challenges and Lawyer Resistance Future of Legal Careers and AI Skills Lawyer Reactions to Susskind's AI Predictions Resource Links Ernie's LinkedIn post summarizing Susskind's speech Jeff Lewis's law firm website Jeff's legal podcast AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
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