Podcast
The 80/20 Principle
Hosted by Ernie Svenson · EN
Tech and AI recommendations for solo and small-firm lawyers. The 20% that actually matters, not the hype and shiny objects that don't.
Hosted by Ernie Svenson — a former big-firm litigator turned solo, then coach to lawyers learning technology. He's been doing this for 20+ years.
Episodes are short and practical. Tool reviews, AI explainers, and stories from coaching lawyers — focused on what's worth your time and what isn't.
Beyond the podcast, Ernie runs a private community called the Inner Circle — a collective R&D department for solo and small-firm lawyers who can't build one alone. To learn more visit: https://ernietheattorney.net/
18episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
319: Gavel Exec: AI Copilot for Legal Drafting
Dec 900:34:42Tap to summarizeShow Notes In this podcast episode, Ernie Svenson interviews Dorna At Gavel, a former attorney turned tech entrepreneur, about her journey in creating Gavel, a legal technology platform. Dorna shares her experiences in building Gavel Workflows and Gavel Exec, tools designed to automate document creation and enhance legal drafting with AI. The conversation explores the integration of these tools with Microsoft Word, the importance of user experience, and the future of AI in the legal field. Dorna addresses common misconceptions about AI, the concept of 'vibe lawyering,' and how these technologies can empower lawyers to focus on more meaningful work while improving efficiency. Takeaways Dorna transitioned from law to tech to help domestic violence survivors. Gavel Workflows automates document creation for legal professionals. Gavel Exec serves as an AI copilot within Microsoft Word. The platform is designed to enhance collaboration and efficiency. AI tools can help lawyers focus on higher-level tasks. Misconceptions about AI include fears of job loss in the legal field. Vibe lawyering encourages creative legal thinking with AI assistance. Training junior associates can be streamlined using AI playbooks. Gavel Exec integrates with existing workflows to improve productivity. The future of legal practice will likely include AI as a standard tool. Resource Links AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
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318: AI is a consensus machine (and here's why that's good for some lawyers)
Nov 2600:07:01Tap to summarizeShow Notes In this episode, Ernie discusses the impact of AI on the legal profession, emphasizing that while AI may replace surface-level tasks, the best lawyers will thrive by focusing on deeper, strategic thinking and understanding complex legal outcomes. Takeaways The best lawyers won't just survive this wave of AI. They're gonna dominate. If your work is mostly surface level, AI is gonna replace you. To remain indispensable, focus on outcomes and hidden risks. Understanding the chessboard of legal scenarios is crucial. Lawyers must evolve their skills to adapt to AI advancements. AI should be seen as a tool, not a replacement. Strategic thinking is key in the legal profession. The future of law requires innovation and adaptation. Surface-level tasks can be automated, but deeper insights cannot. Indispensable lawyers will thrive in the AI era. Resource Links AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
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317: AI, ClioCon, and the Future of Law: What Lawyers Need to Know Now
Nov 400:35:56Tap to summarizeIn this episode, California attorney Jeff Lewis and I discuss the recent Clio conference that took place in Boston, which we both attended along with 2,700 other lawyers. There was a lot of discussion about AI and how its growing adoption will impact lawyers in the coming years. We of course will discuss Richard Susskind's Keynote speech, which was a disturbing warning about the massive disruption AI is likely to bring to the legal profession. Jeff called it a "gut punch" and you'll want to hear why he found Susskind's speech so unsettling. Topics Discussed Clio's New AI Tools and Integration Plans The Legal Trends Report and Data Insights Clio's 1$ Billion V-Lex Acquisition and what it means Peggy Gruenke's KPI Session Takeaways Richard Susskind's take on AI and the Future of Law AI Adoption Challenges and Lawyer Resistance Future of Legal Careers and AI Skills Lawyer Reactions to Susskind's AI Predictions Resource Links Ernie's LinkedIn post summarizing Susskind's speech Jeff Lewis's law firm website Jeff's legal podcast AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
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316: Inside the Smartphone-Powered Law Firm (with Elise Buie)
Oct 1500:49:01Tap to summarizeWhat if you could run a thriving 40-person law firm entirely from your smartphone? In this episode, attorney Elise Buie—known as "The Smartphone Lawyer"—shares how she scaled her Seattle-based family law practice through radical delegation, smart systems, and the strategic use of virtual assistants. From hiring and managing overseas talent to automating key workflows, Elise reveals how she built a firm that operates seamlessly, even when she's halfway around the world. She also breaks down the mindset shifts lawyers need to overcome perfectionism, embrace technology, and trust others to get things done. Whether you're a solo practitioner or managing a growing team, you'll learn how to delegate more effectively, streamline your operations, and create a practice that supports your life—not the other way around. Topics Covered Overview of Elise's Practice Using Virtual Assistants for 24/7 Support The Power of Delegation Overcoming Perfectionism and Letting Go Delegating Personal Life Tasks How to Start Delegating and Write SOPs Focusing on High-Value Work Running a Law Firm from a Smartphone Slack as a Central Command Hub Why Elise's Firm Pays for Slack Key Apps: Clio, Dropbox, and Payroll Tools Using Loom for Communication AI Note-Taking and Granola Recommendation Hiring and Onboarding Virtual Assistants Filipino Virtual Assistants and Firm Culture Addressing Privacy and Security Concerns How Elise's Firm Uses AI Final Advice: Delegate Everything You Can Resource Links Elise's firm website Elise's LinkedIn page Elise's email address: elisebuie@gmail.com Granola AI notetaking tool AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
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315: Email is the Most Under-leveraged Marketing Channel for Lawyers (with Tyler Cook)
Sep 1600:52:48Tap to summarizeEmail isn't dead—it's dominating. In this episode, email marketing expert Tyler Cook explains why email remains the highest ROI marketing channel for lawyers (and just about everyone else). You'll learn: Why email still outperforms social media by a mile What kind of emails people actually want to read The 3 automations every lawyer should set up—no exceptions How to use AI to write powerful emails fast (without sounding robotic) The truth about open rates, sender reputation, and avoiding spam filters Whether you're brand new to email marketing or ready to take your list to the next level, this episode gives you a clear roadmap—and some surprising tactics most lawyers miss. Plus: Tyler shares his favorite pro-level deliverability tips, and how even a tiny list can bring in big results when used the right way. Resource Links Tyler Cook: LinkedIn profile Tyler Cook: Hypermedia website Tyler Cook: newsletter about email marketing Rand Fiskin (SEO expert) Perry Marshall (author of 80/20 Marketing book) Neverbounce (email verification) Beehiiv (email platform for newsletters) Hubspot (CRM and email sending platform) Dean Jackson (email marketing guru) Hoppy Copy (helps write good emails) Jarvis (AI-powered marketing copy) Copy.ai (marketing copy assistant) Google Alerts (get automatically notified of important news) AI Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
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314: Why law firm SOP manuals are now obsolete (because of AI)
Sep 900:05:04Tap to summarizeLaw firms love their SOPs—binders full of screenshots, arrows, and step-by-step instructions. But here's the problem: they take months to build, cost thousands to produce, and go out of date the moment software updates. There's a better way. In this episode, I break down how forward-thinking lawyers are replacing outdated SOPs with AI-powered prompt libraries that actually get work done. You'll hear real examples, learn why prompts are more reliable than manuals, and see how this simple shift can save your firm hours every week. If your SOP binder feels more like dead weight than a useful tool, this episode will show you what to do instead. Episode Links ChatGPT Lab (a weekly AI workshop for lawyers) Apply to join the ChatGPT Lab The 80/20 Principle (my techlaw newsletter) The Inner Circle (my online community for lawyers) Follow and Review: I'd love for you to follow me if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. I'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to the sponsor: Smith.ai Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai.
Transcribe →268: Modern Note-Taking for Lawyers with Obsidian
Oct 10, 2023Tap to summarizeDigital note-taking for lawyers is no longer just about transcribing ideas—it's about weaving them together. Enter the world of "Personal Knowledge Management" (PKM), a realm where Evernote once reigned supreme but now faces more powerful contenders. Obsidian is the best note-taking app for lawyers who want a powerful, user-friendly tool that also happens to be completely free. With its interconnected system of notes, it offers unparalleled speed and efficiency. Want to learn more? Tune in as PKM specialist Mike Schmitz shares his insights. Listen to the episode and check Mike's top resource links. In this episode, you will hear: Importance of digital note-taking and how it can revolutionize the way individuals capture and leverage ideas. Introduction to Obsidian, a digital note-taking tool, and how to use its features effectively. Discussion on Personal Knowledge Management (PKM) and how being selective with the information we consume can fuel creativity. The advantages of using Obsidian for note-taking, including its seamless integration with markdown language and various plugins that extend its functionality. Overview of Obsidian 101 and Obsidian University – courses designed to help users get the most out of the tool. Show Notes Join: '80/20 Inner Circle' (valuable business insights for small firm owners) Read: The 80/20 Principle: The Secret of Achieving More with Less, by Richard Koch Get my new email course: ChatGPT for Lawyers (it's free) Craft: A note-taking app mentioned alongside Obsidian as part of the PKM (Personal Knowledge Management) stack. Roam Research: Another app mentioned as part of the PKM stack, emphasizing the need for a PKM app to manage different apps' information. Notion: Mentioned in relation to PKM and note-taking, highlighting the various options available for managing information. Drafts: An Apple-based quick capture tool was mentioned in the conversation, and there was a question about how to move content from Drafts to Obsidian. Evernote: The OG of note-taking tools, although many people now want more effective alternatives. Mike's PKM stack is: To-Doist for tasks, Notion for work projects, and Cron for calendaring Obsidian University Cohort Mike's Obsidian Newsletter Obsidian 101 Book an Obsidian Setup Call with Mike Mike's YouTube channel Jobs to Be Done, a well-known article by Clayton Christensen Liminal Thinking: Create the Change You Want by Changing the Way You Think, a book by David Gray General Resources The 80/20 Principle (my email newsletter) The 5 Pillars of a Tech-Powered Law Practice The Inner Circle (an online community for law firm owners) Follow and Review: We'd love for you to follow us if you haven't yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. We'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select "Ratings and Reviews" and "Write a Review" then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Thanks to Our Sponsors Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai, you're hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. If there's one great outsourcing opportunity for your practice, this is it. Let Smith.ai have your back while you stay focused on your work, knowing that your clients and prospects are being taken care of. Plans start at $210/month for 30 calls, and pricing starts at $140 for 20 chats, with overage at $7 per chat. They offer a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee on all receptionist and live chat plans, including add-ons (up to $1000). And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a risk-free start with a 14-day money-back guarantee now (and learn more) at smith.ai. Overture Law Overture Law is the first private attorney network enabling them to refer matters to one another and ethically share in referral fees. Membership is free if you're accepted. Apply for membership at Overture.law Once you're accepted, you'll start getting valuable referrals and earn fees for matters you refer out. A powerful win-win for U.S.-based solo and small firm attorneys. Episode Credits If you like this podcast and are thinking of creating your own, consider talking to my producer, Emerald City Productions. They helped me grow and produce the podcast you are listening to right now. Find out more at https://emeraldcitypro.comLet them know we sent you.
Transcribe →159: PKM for Lawyers
Jul 6, 2021Tap to summarizePKM is a new term, but an important one for all knowledge workers (i.e. lawyers and others who think for a living and solve problems by thinking). Here are some basics of PKM, which will probably seem alien to many lawyers. But it's worth making the effort to grasp the power of PKM. Show Notes Nick Milo's PKM story (article published on Medium) Nick Milo's YouTube channel What is PKM (Nick MIlo's YouTube explanation) Focused podcast episode 122 (where Nick Milo's appeared and discussed PKM) Wikipedia definition of personal knowledge management Information Anxiety 2, by Richard Saul Wurman Continuum of Understanding, by Richard Shedroff (progression from data to information to knowledge to wisdom) The Great Mental Models, by Farnam Street (Shane Parrish runs Farnham Street) How to Read a Book: The Classic Guide to Intelligent Reading, Mortimer Adler Bookworm podcast: episode 42 (How To Read a Book) Trello (kanban board style project management tool) SweetProcess (process documentation tool) Process St. (another process documenting tool) 1Password (best password management tool) Drafts (fast capture tool for iPhone users) Evernote (not so fast capture tool that many people still use) Apple Notes (fast capture tool for iPhone users) Otter.ai (convenient and semi-fast capture via voice transcription) Kill your darlings (writing advice that applies to ideas as well) Obsidian (a new PKM tool that is being rapidly adopted by high-level knowledge workers) Amazon Kindle Notes (your book highlights are accessible online and in various Kindle apps) Michael Hyatt (respected business leader and business coach) Tim Ferriss (well-known author of The Four Hour Workweek, and VC investor.) My Systems Workshop General Resources The 80/20 Principle (my email newsletter) The 5 Pillars of a Tech-Powered Law Practice The Inner Circle (an online community for law firm owners) Thanks to Our Sponsors SweetProcess is a great way to document your important workflows. Doing so will help make your practice run more smoothly, and require less involvement on your part to keep things running smoothly. The best way to understand how SweetProcess will help streamline your firm is to start using it. The company offers a 14-day free trial, but as a loyal listener of this podcast, you can try it for 28-days free of charge. And you don't even have to enter a credit card to get started. Just navigate to SweetProcess.com/ernie to start your 28-day free trial today. And thanks to the other sponsor of this podcast… Smith.ai is an amazing virtual receptionist service that specializes in working with solo and small law firms. When you hire Smith.ai you're actually hiring well-trained, friendly receptionists who can respond to callers in English or Spanish. If there's one great outsourcing opportunity for your practice, this is it. Let Smith.ai have your back while you stay focused on your work, knowing that your clients and prospects are being taken care of. Plans start at just $140 a month for calls or chats. And they have a special offer for podcast listeners where you can get an extra $100 discount with promo code ERNIE100. Sign up for a free trial now (and learn more) at www.smith.ai. EPISODE CREDITS: If you like this podcast and are thinking of creating your own, consider talking to my producer, Danny Ozment. He helps thought leaders, influencers, executives, HR professionals, recruiters, lawyers, realtors, bloggers, coaches, and authors create, launch, and produce podcasts that grow their business and impact the world. Find out more at EmeraldCity Pro.
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