← The Abigail Peugh Podcast
The Abigail Peugh Podcast
27. What’s Actually Working For Instagram Growth w/ Shannon McKinstrie
00:51:17
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- [00:05]
A
You're listening to an episode of the Abigail Pugh podcast with, you guessed it, Abigail Pugh. I'm an introverted mama who took my online business from zero to seven figures in 15 months, selling my own digital products on social media. And guess what? I did it all with my 3 year old daughter no less than 3ft away from me at all times. Now I'm bringing you everything I've learned about building a wildly profitable online business that supports your life while allowing you to truly live it. Get ready for raw, honest conversations with entrepreneurs making thousands per month selling their own digital products and people just like you who ditch self doubt to create the life they've always wanted. If you're ready to make more money, have more impact, and still have time for the things that matter most, you're in the right place. Grab your sneakers, head out on your hot girl walk, and let's dive in. Today's guest is someone that I have absolutely loved following. We actually have a student that has worked with both of us, and she's absolutely crushing it, working with Shannon in her reels lab, which for me, it's just so fun to watch. So Shannon's goal, which is so clear in her content, right? Like, she's so good at messaging, is to remove the guesswork and overwhelm when it comes to content creation so that business owners like you and me can actually enjoy promoting our businesses and engaging with our audience on social media without burnout. The dream. Right. I feel like that's everybody's goal right now, is no burnout. So, Shannon, welcome to the show.
- [01:31]
B
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
- [01:33]
A
I'm so excited you're here. I would love it if you could just tell us a little bit about kind of where you got started. I know you've been in social media for a long time, which I feel like there's a lot of people out there who are, you know, I say experts in quotes that haven't been in it for a long time. Right. And so I love that you have what, like, 10, 15 years of social media marketing experience. So tell us a little bit about your journey and kind of how you got into all this.
- [01:58]
B
Yeah, so try. I try to make it short, but it's like, I've been doing this so long. I'm like, I'm, well, you know, I'm an elder millennial, so I did not grow up with social media. I grew up with the camcord camcorder, and we were like the first generation of like, digital cameras and Stuff. So I just loved documenting everything from. I was little. So then I went into TV production because I was like, this is what I want to do. I want to go into media. And I worked at C span, cnn. And I was like, this is amazing. And then I was like, this is no way to live. Because it was just constant, like, overnights, working holidays, and honestly, someone with the anxiety to just be surrounded by all the doom and gloom of the world all day long. I was like, oh, my gosh, what do I do? This was my dream job. And now I'm like, what am I doing? My dream was to work in the control room, which I got to do that. So I was like, no, I gotta figure out what I want to do next. And so I bounced around marketing jobs and art, you know, begged for marketing jobs. Hardly anyone would even look at me because my specialty was tv. So I kind of had to go take a step back. Worked in sales and marketing jobs and bounced around to a lot that I really didn't, you know, didn't bring me joy. A lot of me sitting there just being like, does anyone want to hear what I have to say? Like, I felt, you know, kind of stupid to just be honest. I was like, I'm. I'm like, I like to create silly captions and things and. Because at that point, social media was now a part of our lives. And I was like, I could really crush this if people would just, you know, listen. But at the time, social media was a fad. You know, no one took it seriously. Everyone was like, this is a joke. And I was like, all right, well. But then in 2013, the 9 to 5 I was at, I was in the sales and marketing department, and someone was like, well, someone just manned the LinkedIn and Facebook page. And I was like, me. And I was obsessed with it. I had so much fun. And I was like, wait a minute, you know, could this eventually be taken as a serious career? And still, at the time, it was not. It was not a role that business, Any businesses had in 2013.
- [03:59]
A
Wild, wild.
- [04:01]
B
What happened in 10 years? I know. And again, it was. They threw it at the intern. They threw it at the. At least someone who knew how to write a caption press post.
- [04:08]
A
Yep.
- [04:09]
B
Right. And at the time, I was the friend of my friend group who was like, shannon, what should my caption be? You know, like, I always loved that part of it. So I was like, too bad I can't get paid for this. And who knew later on we. We would. Yeah. And then I had my daughter in 2013, and I was planning on going back to my job, and I had a really bad birth experience sent me onto this journey during maternity leave of I don't want to go back to work, which for me was weird because I'm not a homebody. I was like, you know, my mom was like, so bored.
- [04:40]
A
I know.
- [04:40]
B
I was like, well, what do I do? I don't know what to do. So I talked to my husband. We were in so much debt. And he was like, shannon, girl.
- [04:45]
A
Like.
- [04:45]
B
And I was like, but girl, you know, for how much? Girl, like, be. Be for real.
- [04:51]
A
For real.
- [04:52]
B
Be for real. And he was like, I remember going, okay, daycare is this much. My salary is this much. If I can make this much and stay home. It took me a long time to get there, but he was like, sure, you know? So I found a few people to hire me to do their Facebook pages. And I was charging like 100 bucks a month, 50 bucks a month for some. It was crazy. But as real estate agents, like a hair salon, I was just like, begging. And, yeah, I got like 10 clients. And then next thing I knew, I started finally being like, well, you can actually make real money in this. And then here we are, right? I started posting for myself. Well, I was growing their accounts, and then I was like, maybe I should grow my own. And then here we are. So it was. It's been a long journey of a lot of self doubt because no one took it seriously. So once, 2017, I mean, it was like four years of me doing this where I was like, oh, okay, this can go from a hobby to like an actual business.
- [05:43]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [05:45]
B
And then I started posting for myself in like 2017, 2018. I started showing up for my own business and then started consulting.
- [05:51]
A
And then.
- [05:52]
B
Yeah, and now we're here. So it's been quite a journey. And if anyone's in media and content creation, you know, own your worth and it's okay.
- [06:00]
A
That's so funny that you say, like, it took you that long. What was that, like five years before or maybe four years before you started doing it for yourself? And I think that's such a common thing for a lot of people in social media is that, like, you're so focused on doing things for other people's businesses that you forget about your own. And it's real easy to, like, slip into that. But I think, like, building a personal brand gives you so many more options to do what you want to do, because, like, doing client work for the rest of your life is not. It's not it, like, for me personally, there's just, it's, it's so much pressure to like constantly be on and constantly be creative for so many different people. It's a lot. So I think it is personal brand building. You guys, if you're listening to this and you're still only doing client work, like, focus on your brand too, because you know when, when life gets crazy, you can lean more into that and not necessarily, like rely on all the client stuff, but that's a whole, that's a whole nother podcast episode. So I would love to hear. I feel like you are so good at messaging. Like when you go to Shannon's Instagram page, which I'll tag it for you guys in the show, notes. Shannon McKinstry. Am I saying it right?
- [07:13]
B
Yeah, I nailed it.
- [07:14]
A
So if you go to her Instagram page, it's like so clear who she helps. And that is messaging, right? Like, your messaging is like who you are talking to. So I'd love for you to share a little bit on like how you teach your students to kind of get clear on their messaging. Because I feel like that is one of the hardest things for so many people. And I feel like even, even myself, like, I'm so clear on my messaging and some days I wake up and I'm like, who am I? Who do I help?
- [07:38]
B
Shame. Same.
- [07:42]
A
Why am I confused about this? Like, I do this. So I'd love to hear like your, I don't know, like, if you have a framework or something that you help people, like when they're struggling with who they're talking to. Because if you don't know who you're talking to in your content, like, it's probably not going to do very much for your business, honestly.
- [08:00]
B
And you're going to hate everything. Like you're. Yeah, well, so it depends, right? But for like, for social media managers, right, or for personal brands, like you said, most of them, I'm like, your audience is probably you five years ago.
- [08:14]
A
Yeah.
- [08:15]
B
Like, that's kind of a cool way to look at it now for a brand, like, I don't know, let's say Nike. Right. Like, that's gonna be a little different. Right? But like, it's really. Especially if you're a one person shop or like a really, you know, your coach, like, your person is. They're looking at you because they want your lifestyle. So they are you five years ago. So that's kind of a cool way to think of it. It's like, obviously if you journaled five years ago or I've coached a lot of social media managers in the past, and every time I would talk, I would be like, what. What does Shannon need to hear five years ago? And that's what I would say. And we go bananas. Right. I still do a lot of content like that on TikTok and it does really, really well. Right. I'm like, I say the things they wish they could say.
- [08:52]
A
Yep.
- [08:52]
B
And aren't there and say it yet.
- [08:54]
A
You literally just have to, like, put yourself in your shoes.
- [08:56]
B
Yes.
- [08:57]
A
Like, five years. If you're teaching, obviously, if you're teaching, like, something else. This. Most of my audience is like, they have a personal brand and they're teaching from their experiences. And I think a lot of time we. We forget that that's who our audience is. Like, they're struggling. And Shannon does this so well. She does a lot of content around, like, the 200 views. 200 view. What is jail view? Right. And like, a lot of people.
- [09:22]
B
Because that's what they say.
- [09:23]
A
Yeah, that's what they say. And that's. That was her problem, maybe not her, because she's. I feel like you've always been really good at this. But she knows that, like, that's what their head is thinking. That's what they're thinking. Like, crap. Like, how do I get out of this? And I feel like we overcomplicate messaging so much. Like, you see all the reasons. I'm like, do you have magnetic messaging? And I'm like, what is magnetic message?
- [09:42]
B
What does that mean?
- [09:43]
A
It's literally just you talking to your people. Like, you talking in the way that they talk. Not necessarily, you know, in, like, your lingo. I can't remember. I don't know whose page I saw it on. Maybe it was yours. Maybe I can't remember. But they were saying that they used to say apparel in all of their marketing, and then they switched it to clothing, and it was like that wording switch. And I was like, dude, that's such a good example. Because we're like, oh, yeah, apparel. Like, it's clothing. But if I saw an ad that said, look at this beautiful apparel for, I'd be like, what? Like, my brain would have to think about it. And the thing with social media is, like, you can't have to think about it. You have to, like, instantly know if it's for you or not. So I think that's so smart, like, putting yourself in your ideal customer shoes, which was you five years ago, Right?
- [10:29]
B
Exactly. And I love that you said that. About apparel. Because I'm like, what? Go look at your testimonial. So in addition to thinking about, okay, who was I five years ago, what they need to hear, what did they want to know? It's like, what words are they using? And actually, it's funny you said that because I. Screenshot. Oh, no, that's what it was when I was at. I was spoke at a conference last week and I was saying how, like, I changed my outfit five times beforehand and then ended up seeing pictures and hated it. And I was like, we all right. So I was like, if you're a stylist, take the words I just said.
- [10:57]
A
Yep.
- [10:57]
B
And use that in your next real. Because as someone who struggles with what to wear, because I'm all over the place and just don't know. You know what I mean? I was like. I said to them, I was like, my problem this morning was I changed five times.
- [11:09]
A
Yep.
- [11:10]
B
And I still hated my outfit.
- [11:12]
A
You.
- [11:13]
B
That is your pov. Pov. You're find yourself changing your outfit five times and still hate it. And I use the word outfit. So it's funny you said that, right? I was like, that's your next reel. And then. And then you find my account or then you find the stress from whatever. But same thing. I got a DM the other day of someone basically saying, shannon, thank you so much, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she said, I often feel like my content isn't good enough. And I was like, there it is. That's my next. I haven't done it yet, but that's going to be a future real mine. Look. You feel like your content isn't good enough.
- [11:40]
A
Yep.
- [11:40]
B
So you XYZ, look at the DMs you're getting. Look at the testimonials on people you look up to. Look at their pages. Like, see what testimonials are there. Because a lot of people are new and they're like, shannon, I don't have a client yet. Like, who's someone you look up to in your industry? Go look at the testimonials. Go look at the words. They've paid a lot of money for the.
- [11:56]
A
For.
- [11:56]
B
For the. For that copy. But stop using your own words. Stop solving the problem that you think you solve, and start solving the problem your people are telling you that you saw is really what it comes down to.
- [12:07]
A
It really is about, like, simplifying how you say things. And I always tell my students who I'm like, use specific scenarios when you're doing, like, point of view reels. Or anything. Like, get specific. Because when you get broad, like, when you're talking to everybody, you're talking to nobody, right? And I think people get so fearful to, like, get so specific. But I'm like, it's not that the specific person is going to have that same exact moment or scenario, but they might have something similar. And if any part of them relates to that, they're going to connect with you more. Whereas if you're just like, super broad and like, oh, I, you know, I help moms save money. I'm like, what does that mean? Like, how do you have. With groceries with this? Like, get into those, like, specific scenarios. And those wheels do so much better. But I know it's scary. I feel like it's scary to get specific because you're like, oh, my God, I'm gonna alienate all these people. And I'm like, there it is. That's good. You want to repel and attract people. Like, you have to do both.
- [13:03]
B
That is it.
- [13:04]
A
You can't repel everybody. Like, you have. Or you can't attract everybody. Right? You have to attract some and repel others. And I feel like you're so good at that. Not that I don't know. I don't know who you'd be repelling. Maybe some.
- [13:15]
B
No, I do, though. I. Well, I think I repel the ones who are like, rat race and they want the magic pill. I repel the magic pill people.
- [13:22]
A
Secret sauce.
- [13:23]
B
There is no secret sauce. I'm like, you know, and if someone's selling that, like, red flag red. But it's kind of funny because you said it. Exactly. And that would be another. Like, even when you're. If you're on a podcast, like, take all those snippets that come up on the podcast. Like, you just said, if. If you're not turning people away with your content, you're doing it wrong. Like, and the right people will come in. But, yeah, same thing. Like, if I. When I really started growing on Instagram, I was busting a lot of myths. I was debunking a lot of myths that I was seeing because I was still managing full time. And I was like, you guys, I manage realtors, hair swans, photographers. I was like, all this nonsense you're hearing is absolutely not true. Like, I actually am in the psyche of it. So that's when I kind of started growing because I was like, guys, like, you're business owners. You're juggling invoices, clients, and kids. And I'm like, do not listen to this crap. So no. Yeah.
- [14:12]
A
Some of them are like, they're so ridiculous. Like, crazy. So many where it's like, if you copy from your notes and you paste it, I'm like, how. Where's the logic in that being something that's going to affect your reach? Or like, if you change your reels cover after you posted the reel automatically, you're not going to.
- [14:30]
B
It's not going to go to jail.
- [14:30]
A
I'm like, who straight to jail. I know that one audio is like, go to jail, go to jail. I'm like, you know, for all of these myths. Because there's so. And people, like, ask questions where I'm like, who's telling you this?
- [14:42]
B
I love that because it's so funny. And this is how my brain works. I was. I love that you just said that. As I was going to bed last night, I was like, I need to do a thread or something on, hey, guys, remember when everyone six months ago was telling you not to copy paste from notes? I was like, do you guys know how dumb that was now? Like, can you stop believing this stuff? And then the other one, that was crazy. A few months ago, I don't even know. I was just like, you guys, do you see now? I was like, now that we're six months past that, do you see how that was just to get you to buy their course?
- [15:08]
A
I'm like, that was it.
- [15:10]
B
That was it. That was the second one.
- [15:11]
A
Make it all small. I'm like, oh, this is not a strategy. You guys like this. No.
- [15:18]
B
And they're looking for the magic sauce. I get it. They're looking for the magic sauce. There's no, you know, I get it. We're all. And like, even. It's so funny when I like, we'll do a speaking engagement. Everyone, like obsesses over the hashtags. Like, that's the one thing they walk away with. I'm like, you guys, that is the cherry on top. If your messaging sucks, it doesn't matter what hash.
- [15:37]
A
Honestly, I don't, I don't use them. And I. Because they scared me at the beginning and I was just like. And I tell people all the time, they ask me, like, what do you think? And I'm like, honestly, if you want to do the research and you want to do it, do it. But like, if it or don't you back. If it holds you back and it makes you nervous. Like, I always got so nervous, like, oh, what if I use a banned hashtag? Or what if it. I don't know, it just made Me nervous. I was like, you know what? I'm not. I'm not going to use them. Like, I'm going to focus on my messaging.
- [16:01]
B
You did it your way.
- [16:02]
A
Yeah, exactly. And I. And I never, like, tell people, oh, hashtags are bad, or they don't work. Like, I'm not black and white with a lot of things on social media. I think they work for certain people, and if you want to use them, go for it. If not, it's not. I don't think it's like, the make or break. Honestly, I think it could maybe take something a little farther. I do think for local people, local businesses, I think it's different, and I think they're huge. I'm not local. Like, I help everyone anywhere. So I obviously. And I don't really want everyone to know exactly where I live. Honestly, I. I don't really use a lot of locations. But if someone were like, hey, I'm a local business and I'm trying, like, I'm a realtor. Oh, my God. Everything should be hashtag the city that you're selling houses in. Like, that's. But that's different. But I. You know, it like, freaked me out so much at the beginning that I was like, you know what? I'm not gonna use them.
- [16:49]
B
I also love that, again, you and I don't speak in absolutes all the time. And that's really important when you're following a marketer on social media. If they're like, you cannot do this. Unless it came from the head of Instagram himself, and he was like, you can only use three hashtags. Then we will only use three hashtags. But, like, yeah, it's all. Most of the stuff you hear is silly. You know, if they say it. Okay, but even the creator account on Instagram has said some crazy stuff that's not true.
- [17:15]
A
What. What are you trying to do? These people, these poor people are so confused, and there's so much noise. And, like, I really try not to use, like, hack a lot of the time. There is a hack that I actually love, and I think it's fun when you need it. Like with stories where you just post one and it's like, a little bit longer and you let your stories expire and then you post one and it's got a keyword call to action at the end. I'm like, if I'm trying to, like, you know, it's the last day of my wait list for them to get on it, hell yeah, I'm gonna use that hack I got like 16,000 views the other day on a story. Like, but it's. It's not my entire strategy, and I think that's where a lot of people get confused, is that they're like, oh, okay, so I'm gonna do this every day. And I'm like, no, no, no. It has to be something that's like, every once in a while I'm gonna use this, but then I'm actually gonna, like, share my life.
- [17:59]
B
It's a tactic. Yeah. And I think that's the thing. I love that. It's like, there's tactics, there's strategies, and there's a time and place for both.
- [18:05]
A
Yep, Yep. And I will try everything. Obviously, I won't try, like, the things that I think I would like, I never did, you know, keyword stuffing. I never worry about writing my caption in a note and then pasting it. Although, I don't know, something about my brain, like, I have to write it in the caption thing. Like, there's.
- [18:22]
B
It's a preference.
- [18:23]
A
Yes. I can't make big purchases on my phone, have to be on my laptop, and I have to write my captions on my. Something about my brain, like, just needs that. But I never would have once thought, oh, if I copy this from somewhere else, if I copy it from my notes, it's going to affect my reach and I'm like, I'm going to get.
- [18:39]
B
I'm going to get flagged. I'm in jail.
- [18:40]
A
Yes. Oh, my goodness. It's crazy. But I digress. There's so many things. Okay, so if someone came to you and they are a personal brand and they sell a digital product, how would you kind of tell them to grow their Instagram? Because I feel like that's. I feel like growing right now. It's. It's like, it's harder right now. And people are much. They're much more, I don't know, like, reserved with their follows right now. I'm even noticing it too. And it's. It's like, even my personal preference is like, I'm not following a lot of people right now.
- [19:13]
B
I don't.
- [19:14]
A
I don't know if it's just like the state of the world, the state of social media. I don't want more people to invest in because I do like to invest and, like, follow people. But. So if you were to tell someone who sells a digital product, like, how would you teach them to start growing right now?
- [19:28]
B
Yeah. Well, first, I love that you said that. I think, again, you're everything you're saying I'm like, you need to be making content on all of this because it's. I have found the same thing. I feel like people are a little more reserved with hitting follow because we went through this phase of just like, oh my gosh, follow. Love it, love it, love it. And this was like six months ago. People were. My clients were getting insane amount of followers off every single reel. I think we slowed down one summer game and we were on our phones less. But like you said, we're on more apps. We've got threads now too. We're overwhelmed and we don't want to fly flood our. And our feeds are different than they used to be. Our feeds are flooded with ads and content that we don't really want to see. So we're like, well why do I want to add to the noise more? Right. I don't want more. So I think because they're being more intentional with who they hit follow for. That just shows even more the power of building a personal brand so they have someone to say something to connect with you on other than just you sell digital products, you help people do xyz. I know people who follow me that don't even have businesses and they're like, oh, I just like, I think it's fun the tricks you share and I love your daughters or I live in North Carolina and I love to see where you guys are going and. Or we connect on some other thing right over my love of whatever it is. Coffee, wine, margaritas. Like we connect on a human, basic, mundane level.
- [20:55]
A
Yep.
- [20:56]
B
So even when I was working with a lot of network marketers years and years and years ago and I told them back then, I was like, you need to be building a personal brand. What you sell should be the last thing that you focus on. I mean it just like if you sell beauty counter then you know, share other non toxic products you love and share your how much you, you know, you were able to book this trip because of your paycheck, whatever. Like you do not need to hound people and sound like the kiosk in the mall, right?
- [21:23]
A
Yep.
- [21:24]
B
So you really want to build that personal brand and what I tell people all the time at least once a day in story, at least once a day, ask yourself what's something I would share that has nothing to do with my business. If I did not have a business, what is something I would just share with my friends and family on Instagram?
- [21:41]
A
Yep.
- [21:41]
B
The show you're binge watching, is it the new snack you found it whole Foods. Is it a hack you tried that you learned on TikTok? Share it. It should have nothing at least once. And it is crazy. Again, I started documenting my journey on stories just because that's all I knew to do. I was like, well, this is pre reels days. Right. You know, Instagram was very different then. And I was like, well, I'm just gonna use Instagram. Like I did my personal account, but make sure people know what I do.
- [22:07]
A
Yeah.
- [22:08]
B
Use stories and create content. That just showed me and my daughter at the coffee shop. I'm working, she's reading. People will be like, I love that coffee shop. Or oh, how cool it is you get to do that. Wait, what is it you do again? Right. So it's just documenting my day and story. So I think the best thing, especially if you're like, what is it my audience cares about? What are they going to connect with me? Over test it out in stories? Keep throwing stuff out in stories and all of a sudden they're, oh, my gosh, I love that too. Then that's part of your brand.
- [22:35]
A
Like, yep.
- [22:36]
B
The fact that you love ramen. The fact that you love whatever. Like, they're gonna connect over that one thing that you think is so dumb.
- [22:44]
A
Yep. Seriously, the most random things that I've shared in my stories is like, what people. Like, I was making Logan's cucumber salad, and the amount of people that are sending me cucumber pictures of their salad, Like, I love it. And it's. It's. Honestly, it's a lot of fun. I feel like it's so easy to make social media not social and just all about selling. When you get good at selling, it's a lot of fun to sell. Sell. Right?
- [23:08]
B
Yeah.
- [23:08]
A
But also, people want to connect with you. Right. And like, even my husband's lattes, he would make me lattes and it would be latte art. I say that in quotes. It's not. It's stupid. But like, him and my daughter pour them. And people love to guess. Like, they love it. Latte art is. And like, little things like that. No, that's easy to do it. But it's. People love it. Like, they want to connect with a human being. And it does feel like it's going to make the sales take longer, and it will, but those sales will be from people that will keep coming back again and again and again for things that you offer. And it's. It's worth it to push out the sale, in my opinion, and wait a little bit longer so that you Create, like, lifelong customers that keep coming back for everything that you offer.
- [23:54]
B
Completely agree.
- [23:55]
A
The longevity.
- [23:56]
B
Yeah. You don't want someone. Right. You don't want someone coming to your store or your restaurant once and then never coming back again. Like, you want. You know, we always joke, like, there's a place near our house called Amberly Local, and it's like they have live music on Fridays and there's kids everywhere. We know the bartenders. We know the kitchen staff. Like, we know them, and we go all the time because we feel comfortable, we feel familiar. And it's like our cheers, if you will. Right. Like, your account should feel like that. They should feel comfortable dming you. They should be. Feel familiar when they see your face. And if they don't, then that's why you're probably struggling. But I love that you said the latte things. It's like, yeah, now people are going to be like, oh, my gosh, I just got this. Let me. Let me send it to Abigail. Because it made you. Made them think of you. And I was getting that when I started drinking poppy a couple of years ago. Like, that was writing. Poppy soda started becoming, like, a thing. It wasn't as big as it is now, but you had to be on the hunt for it. Like, I had to go to multiple grocery stores to find it, and I would take people on my journey, and then I would get all excited and be, like, squealing in the aisle, and my daughter would be embarrassed, and it was like a whole thing, and it was funny. And then other people started trying Poppy and tagging me and going, shannon, it's a Costco now. I found it. I mean, did that sell products? I don't know, but I bet it did. Like, you know, in the long run, it did. And you and I are in it for the long haul. And again, that's the type of people we're going to repel. The ones that want the short term lottery ticket.
- [25:20]
A
Yes.
- [25:20]
B
And we're going to bring in the ones who want to be here for the long term and serve.
- [25:23]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I think. Absolutely. It's so easy to, like, see. I don't know people. You feel like people have success really quickly, and then people want that, and it's like, it's not. It's a. It's a long game. It really is a long game. Like, this business of mine has been open for just over two years, but also, like, I did other businesses for years before that to get to where I am now. And I'm like, the long game is always kind of on my mind. I'm, like, always sacrificing short term wins for longer term ones. And it's scary sometimes. Yes, it is.
- [25:58]
B
Yeah.
- [25:58]
A
It's worth it because I want a business that's going to be around for as long as I want to run it. I don't want a business that's just going to be, you know, a cash injection once and then it's over. I don't want that. Like, no.
- [26:09]
B
And unfortunately, especially, it's probably good that you came in to that world a little later, because five years ago, it was all just like, hustle, hustle, hustle. And coaches were telling me, like, you'll never make money. And, you know, just like, it was really ugly.
- [26:24]
A
Yeah. That hustle culture was so toxic.
- [26:26]
B
It was nasty and toxic. And there's way less of it now, which is nice. You know, they were all like, live. We're living in Bali, and I'm like, I don't want to live in Bali. I want to work on my couch.
- [26:38]
A
Yeah.
- [26:38]
B
Like, I'm all right.
- [26:40]
A
Although I feel like it's gone kind of the opposite for some people. They're like, I don't want to work at all. I'm like, okay, you guys, there has to be ebbs and flows. Like, there are seasons where I am hustling, but I know that it's not a never ending hustle. Like, right now, I'm in the middle of a launch. Like, of course I'm hustling.
- [26:55]
B
It's crazy.
- [26:56]
A
Yeah, it's a lot. And it's a lot of work. But, like, I'm also planning to take most of December off. And I'm like, oh, I love that. Like, there's ebbs and flows. It's not this, like, hustle for 12 months in a row. I mean, if you need to, yes. But then you have to build in, like, the rest and the recovery and, like, enjoying what you worked for. I feel like a lot of people don't do that now. Like, like, focus on what you just hit this big goal now you're already setting your next one. Like, enjoy that. Like, you worked so hard for this. And I even have to remind myself too sometimes. Like, I hit a big milestone. I'm about to hit, like, a really big revenue milestone. And in my head, I'm already, like, trying to make the next one. I'm like, no, I know. Take a breath.
- [27:35]
B
Like, it's like, like, what is it? Like, enjoy the glow up or what does this say? Enjoy the. Enjoy the peak or whatever. It is, but yeah, it's like, it's like once we get there, then we're like all this pressure, but it's. It's just how we are as entrepreneurs. But no, you got us. You got to take a minute to just. That was cool, you know?
- [27:53]
A
Yes, exactly. Okay, let's do some rapid fire questions.
- [27:57]
B
Let's do it.
- [27:58]
A
Really fun. So if you could only post one real type for the rest of the year, what would it be?
- [28:04]
B
The talk to camera.
- [28:05]
A
Yeah, I figured it was either gonna be talking to camera or point of view because I feel like you. I do love pov.
- [28:12]
B
Yeah, that's hard to choose, actually. But I will say it's very interesting. My POVs and my trending audios ones were getting me the most new follows like six months ago, a year ago. Now it's to talk to camera. They're converting a lot more people. Yes. And I just, I have more fun with those. I just, I feel like I can again. We're very lucky to have careers where we can just totally be ourselves because in the corporate world, I could never be myself. So I think that's why I love them so much because I'm like, oh, I can be. I can work in my sense of humor and I love that.
- [28:45]
A
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I feel like too, I really like the point of views and trending audios for staying top of mind. I think that's a really great way to stay top of mind for people and also, like, test different types of wording and things like that. And so I do a lot of those in my community where I give them like, prompts because I'm like, you need to find your own voice in some of your reels. But also like, you need to stay top of mind for people. So you have to be able to like, put out these reels where you're like, I'm not expecting this to like, change somebody's life or gain me a thousand followers, but I do need to stay top of mind.
- [29:22]
B
That's it.
- [29:22]
A
So I feel like those are great. But yeah, I feel like talking head reels, they don't always perform as well, but they convert to followers and sales better. And people get in their head with like, it didn't perform well. I'm like, okay, but what were your sales for the week or how many people reached out about?
- [29:38]
B
What were your website clicks?
- [29:39]
A
Like, things like that? It's so much more than just views. And my views are like, they're not great, they're not awful, but like, it's Pretty low for right now. And my sales are great. Like, I'm going to have one of my best sales months of the year. Like, it's. It's not all about the views anymore. It's more, you know, like how you're connecting with people, honestly. So I love you haven't done a talking head reel in a while. Go do one. Do it. Do you have. Okay, can you give them a prompt for a talking head reel to do?
- [30:09]
B
Yes, I. Yeah, I think one of my favorites is the ones that I see do really well right now. Start like, we're mid combo.
- [30:16]
A
Yep. Like, no, but like. And then you start a sentence or just like, naturally.
- [30:20]
B
Yeah. Or another one. I really like that I've seen is fine. If. If no one's gonna say it, I will. Right? It's like. It's almost like you're interjecting a convo that you're like, can we just. Especially if you're busting a mess like that.
- [30:32]
A
Yes.
- [30:33]
B
Yeah. If no one's gonna say, I will. Because they're like, oh, shoot. What she's about to say.
- [30:36]
A
And you guys, when you. When you get heated about something, like, my best performing reels are when, like, somebody. I see a comment, I'm like, wow, that is like. That makes me so mad. I run to my car and I plop my phone and I start talking because I'm like, I gotta get it out while I'm heated. It's so much better when you're not like, oh, I'm gonna write this down and do it tomorrow. When I'm like, tired and not really heated about it anymore. Like, some of my best performing talking head reels have come because something pisses me off, and I'm like, take. Take Charlie. I'm going to the car. I need to record this right now. Like, I'm so mad.
- [31:06]
B
I love you said. Because my business partner, she'll. She always jokes. She's like. Because I taught her this years ago because she would get so, like, again, someone said some garbage tip that were like, this is stressing people out, and I really turn that into content. Turn your frustrations into content. People love it. And it's so funny because now that, like I said, I went to bed last night thinking about how angry I was about the copy paste and the keyword stuffing. And I was like, can we all now see how dumb that was? And when I did Funny Story, when I. When that all happened, I put out a reel saying, do you guys like, this is the dumbest tip I've Ever. And I basically wrote it out as, like. Like, this is not true. And people are like, well, I found when I do copy paste, my reel doesn't perform as well. And I was like, oh, my God. People were dead believing it. And I was like, here's the thing. If I have a reel, it doesn't do well. I cannot physically in my body say, oh, it's because I didn't use the right keywords. There's a thousand reasons.
- [31:58]
A
Yes.
- [31:58]
B
You cannot definitively say. There is no insight that says, well, your stuffed words didn't work. Nope. You caught. So anyway, I'm, like, fired up. Like, I'm definitely as. When we get off this podcast, I'm going to record. Oh, I'm going off. Going off, you know what? And I love it because I can't go downstairs because I'll get downstairs, my daughters will pull me left and right, and I'll forget, and I'll be mad about something else.
- [32:20]
A
Straight to the. Straight to the phone. So easily distracted. Oh, my God. I'm the same way. Too easy. Okay, favorite Instagram font.
- [32:30]
B
Oh, my gosh. Wait, what's it called? I love this question.
- [32:33]
A
I love that they actually gave us the names. Finally. I'm like, that was, like, one of.
- [32:37]
B
The happiest days, like, years to tell.
- [32:40]
A
Us the name of these damn fonts. Because I'm like, as somebody who teaches social media, I'm like, oh, it's. It's the one. You know, it's, like, kind of sideways and, like. Oh, God, I just want.
- [32:48]
B
It's the third one over.
- [32:50]
A
Yes. It's so annoying.
- [32:52]
B
This is, like, the best day for creators everywhere. Okay, my favorite. Well, I go between two, but the classic. Now, why isn't it showing me? Oh, my gosh. Now it's not showing me.
- [33:02]
A
Oh, my gosh. Mine don't either. Okay, so we're gonna go from left to right.
- [33:06]
B
Okay, so my favorite is the classic.
- [33:09]
A
Like, second one in. Yep. Yep. So mine is the second one in. It's the one that just look. It's, like, chunky.
- [33:15]
B
Yes. The chunky. Because it's just so easy to read.
- [33:18]
A
The angled one that's chunky. No, no, no, no, no, no. Straight one. It's the second one in.
- [33:23]
B
Yep. And then the very last one. Literature. I think that one is.
- [33:27]
A
Yep. I always tell people that, like, when you have a fancier brand, like, when you're slightly. Like, when the aesthetics of your brand matter. So let's say you're a brand designer. That's what most brand designers are using where it's like.
- [33:39]
B
And interior designers, they use that one a lot too.
- [33:42]
A
Absolutely.
- [33:43]
B
I think it is called literature. But I also have people who follow me who are in their, like, 60s, and they're like, Shannon, they can't read other people's fonts. So those two I have found are easy for people to read too. So that helps too.
- [33:56]
A
Yeah. I always ask my mom, too. I'm like, if I'm a little bit unsure, I'm like, mom, can you. Can you read this? And it's usually a no.
- [34:04]
B
And I tell people I can't see it. I'm like, screenshot, zoom in. I don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry.
- [34:09]
A
Yep. I feel like the literature one is, like, it has, like, a cool girl vibe. So if I'm going for like, a really, like, cool girl full first, I'll make sure that wherever I'm filming that reel, if it's like, you know, a B roll that I'm like, splicing or something like that, that there's room above me to where I wouldn't have to use the background. Because, you guys, there's, like, weird things.
- [34:30]
B
It's not as pretty.
- [34:31]
A
No, it's not as pretty. And it won't go viral. Like, I know when I'm doing something, I'm like, oh, if I use this text and it has this pretty thing, like, I'm pretty sure it'll go viral. It's the weirdest little things that make a switch. But, like, look at viral reels and look and see, like, the things about them that, like, I don't. I don't even know how to explain, like, the cool girl vibe, but, like, it's a thing. Whereas, like, with the chunky font, that's not cool girl. Like, that's very. Like, more people are going to be able to read it. But if I'm going for, like, that, that, like, cool or whimsical or, I don't know, like, that type of vibe.
- [35:03]
B
Comfort account.
- [35:04]
A
Yes. I'm not using the chunky font. I'm using the thinner literature one.
- [35:07]
B
Isn't that funny? Because my brain works the same way and people don't think this way.
- [35:11]
A
No.
- [35:11]
B
And I'm like, I don't know how to teach it, except that, like, look at what people in your industry that are big time and what fonts even translate to their audience. Like, it's. Every single piece has to be intentional. But then once you figure it out, it's easier. Copy paste. You're not copy paste, but Copy paste your strategy.
- [35:31]
A
Yes, yes. And you'll. You'll kind of, like, get into it. So, like, when I do my prompts, I always tell them, like, why I'm doing something and, like, why we're using why. Like, I just did the museum of failures, right? And I told them I created a prompt for my students, and I told them I'm like, follow my prop. Like how I did my text exactly right. Like, in the middle, there's the chunkier font that you can read. It's stands out underneath that in parentheses. It's much smaller, saying who I am. And then everything else around it is, like, the cool girl font. Like, it's. It's important for it to aesthetically look good while also getting the point across. And I think, you know, at the beginning I didn't know all that, and now I know it. And I've done so much research on, like, reels that do well that, like, I understand why. But it's funny, I have to tell people, like, copy my textbook placement exactly.
- [36:19]
B
Like, the placement is so crucial. And like you said, the font is crucial.
- [36:24]
A
And yeah, it's funny 100%. So I will. I will drop the font names, I'll make sure I find them, and I'll put them in the show notes for you guys as well. But first and foremost, make sure people can read your dang font if nobody can read your real. Yes.
- [36:39]
B
Yeah, and a lot of.
- [36:39]
A
A lot of people do.
- [36:40]
B
If I do red ever, it's because, like, it's a quick little, like, asterisk, like, type thing. Like saying, like, please don't, or if I, like, had a. If I said the wrong word on accident. I don't want to reshoot my whole reel. But yeah, keep it. It hurts our brains enough that we're on our screens all day.
- [36:56]
A
Yep, 100% so true. Okay, real covers, yes or no. And do you create them? Create them in Canva or in Instagram?
- [37:06]
B
God, this is a very controversial topic. And I did not know that until I did a reel on it. And here's what I'll say, people. And I made this mistake. When I say reels cover, I just mean whatever the COVID is on the reel. So when I said about how to make a reels cover, they took it as, like, everything has to be a perfectly curated reels cover. I was like, no, I mean reels cover. Either a screen grab or if you want to, like more. So for anyone who saw that reel and was like, she's now backtracking what she said. No, I promise I'm not. What I meant was I get to the point where I'm like, whoa, my page looks crazy and I need some white space, right? So if I have a lot of reels, covers, which the covers are simply just whatever is showing your grabs. Yeah, screen grabs. I'll be like. And I'm like, okay, I just want a white background with a title. So when that happened. And that's what I did. The real Autumn is I showed everyone when that happened. I literally take a. I'll open my Instagram story camera and just go clink, take a picture or whatever. And then I grabbed the drawing tool, I grab white and I hold my finger down till the whole thing turns white. And then I just put the title of my reel right in the center middle and I save it and I make it my rails cover. I used to do Canva. I used to do really cutesy ones. And I was like, this is such a waste of time. But I do think everyone needs a cover that's intentional. Like, make sure. If you are doing a screen grab, make sure it says at least kind of like, what the gist. Or like, if I'm like, oh, what was that? She had this really good reel. And if I go to find it, I'm like, I'll literally remember, like the shirt you're wearing. Right? Like, we're, we're crazy. Like, we'll remember those little details. So I want to be able to take peek through and find it. So if I can't see the title or can't recognize the real, we're going to get frustrated. So, yes, always a cover. Make it intentional. But do you have to use a curated one? No, but I do a variety. You'll see usually if it's like a funny PO or, or if it's a pov, I'll usually do a screen grab. If it's a talk to camera where I'm yapping for a while, I'll do a cover where I like, really? I almost think, like, what would the Pinterest title say? And that's what I name it usually.
- [39:07]
A
Honestly, with real covers, I think, like, the simpler, the better. I. I just had one of my students, she was like, somebody told me that I need to make all of mine, like, you know, the same thing. And I went to her feed and it was like it all blended together almost. And I was like, if you're a personal brand, my recommendation is to kind of go every other. If you want to have, you know, reels, covers that are just text or something like that, but kind of like switch it up. Because if I go to a page and it's like, like I said, I'm. This is specific to personal brands. If you are like an aesthetic brand, like let's say you're a web designer, obviously like your Instagram needs to reflect like those types of skills. But if you are a personal brand, like I want to go to someone's page and feel like, ah, like I can sink into their content. I love it. Like I don't want to go to this like perfectly curated thing. To me it's more about like how does it make me feel? Do I feel like I'm at home when I go to their page? Yes. And like that's how I've kind of taken my brand because too I overthink everything. And I'm like, yes, this. Is this cover image good enough? Like, does this design look good? And it's like when you kind of just let that go and you're like, you know what, I'm just going to take what I've got, right? Use what I've got. And I always tell people to take a selfie when you're recording anything so that if you're like, hey, there's no good screen grabs in that video, you'll have a selfie wearing the same outfit. I do think it's important for the COVID image to match the vibe of the reel if it's a picture of you, right? So like if you have a completely different outfit on in the reels cover and then they click on it and you're like a totally different hairstyle outfit, like there's a disconnect there. And so I always just take a selfie when I record anything just in case I need it. I don't always use it, but if I need it, it's so much easier to just go grab that selfie and add, you know, my hook on it for the reels cover.
- [40:54]
B
I should have said that too. I do that a lot. But sometimes I'll forget. I'm like, gosh darn it. And I've changed outfits so it doesn't look as good. But what I'll do is I'll grab, I'll play the video on my phone and just like slowly move the cursor until I get a spot where I don't look crazy and I'll screenshot it. So that's. So if you forget, if you're like me and you forget to take that selfie, can do that too. It's not as Nice resolution wise. But yeah, no, it's so true. Like, we. You want to know what to expect when you're clicking on a reel and you're like, binge. I love that you said, sink in. I love that. Like, we do. When you find a new account, you want to sink in and binge it all. And it's like. Then you want to make it bingeable and easy to navigate.
- [41:35]
A
Yes, absolutely. Okay. Looping reels. What's your thoughts? Oh, God, two seconds. And it, you know, it's like a blinking or a snapping. I'll wait to hear your opinion first because I got my own on it.
- [41:48]
B
I thought that. I thought they were. I tested one out for fun, and it did really well, but it didn't do much for my account.
- [41:55]
A
Yeah.
- [41:55]
B
So I think. Or maybe, you know, I'm sure. Of course there's always going to be someone who's going to say the opposite, but, you know, I know my audience doesn't really like being tricked, so I think. And depending on your niche, people might eat that stuff up. It was really funny. Maybe, but, like, yeah, mine got almost a million views, but it didn't convert a bunch of new followers. So I was like, well, that's.
- [42:16]
A
Yeah. My opinion on anything. Like, this is. It can't. Number one, this cannot be your whole strategy. There are some people.
- [42:22]
B
There you go.
- [42:23]
A
Like, this is their entire strategy. And I'm like, no. But I'm never afraid to try something. Like, I think it's fun. I had my students try. One of my students got 15 million views on hers and like, holy crap. Thousands of the ideal followers. And she's like, relationship. And hers was really funny. And so, like, she said, like, it kind of depends. And I did one, and it didn't get, like, crazy views, but I got really good followers from it. Talking about how, like, people want to make all this money, but they don't want to work.
- [42:48]
B
Yes.
- [42:49]
A
Blinking. And so it was, like, funny and it made sense. It wasn't necessarily, like, tricking them, per se, but.
- [42:54]
B
You know what I love is it's. It's your copy that sold it, though. Like, the tactic. Help it get out. So I think a lot of people lean on the tactic and then they forget to make the copy really good. And then they're like, it didn't work. It got millions of views but didn't convert. I'm like, well, like, there's two parts. Yes, that's the trick. But you gotta make sure you back it up with something good.
- [43:12]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And I Think people see things like that working and then like, for views, but then it doesn't convert to anything. And I'm like, well, yeah, like, that's bound to happen. That's another thing. This is totally a tangent, but a lot of people, they put so much weight on every single reel. And I'm like, you gotta kind of let it go a little bit. You kind of got to just let it go. Serve your people love on them, you know, nurture them, give them fun things, make them laugh. And it's like the second I kind of let go of the results of every single reel, I don't know, I, like, I sleep better at night.
- [43:44]
B
Yeah.
- [43:45]
A
I just feel so much less pressure for a real to perform and to, like, be perfect. Because at the end of the day, like, I don't care how many views I get, I care how many people I can help and how many people I can impact and make them laugh, make them smile, give them a simple tip for the day that they can be like, oh, shoot, like, I have never thought of that before. I'm gonna do that. Instead of like, oh, I only got 200 likes. I'm like, go look up how many 200 people is like, google it. Like, how. Show me about 200 people. And you'll be like, oh, shoot, I need to get it together. That's a lot of people. And that's amazing that I just helped.
- [44:17]
B
It's. I love that you said that too, because I'm like, there's so many times that I go, do you know what the average engagement rate is? Do you know what the average rate reach is on Instagram? I was like, you're exceeding it. A lot of times people are doing better than they even realize.
- [44:30]
A
Yep.
- [44:30]
B
I'm like, you're actually doing a really good job and just have a smaller audience. And that's okay. I was selling with 200 people following me. So, like, it's okay.
- [44:39]
A
Yeah. And it's. It's honestly, like, the more you think about each individual reel and like, really dissect it, it's. It's overwhelming. And then you're like, oh, my God, the next one has to be perfect. And I feel like this happens a lot of time with people, like when they start a new account or something and they're so hyper focused on everything being perfect. I'm like, have some fun. Like, loosen up a little bit. Try and post something that, like, you don't know how it's going to perform. You're literally just like, you know what? Here we Go. I'm going to try it. I feel like the content that you think the least about does the best. Like, I did a carousel last week and it was the screenshot of this lady who emailed me. I said shit in one of my emails. Like, like, excited. Like, I was not calling. Right. Like, it was like an excited shit. And she responded and said, I was thinking of buying the boot camp, but because you curse and you have language in it, I decided to unsubscribe and not purchase. And so I did, I did a. I did a carousel on it because I was like, you know, I need, I need to talk about this because I wanted to talk about repelling some people and attracting your ideal audience. And like, I. I think I lost like 200 followers that day. But the carousel is like one of my best performing carousels that, I mean.
- [45:49]
B
So it's vulnerability and it's honesty and it's transparency, which is severely lacking in this space.
- [45:57]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I feel like I do a lot of those, like, being vulnerable posts. And I don't know, I see some people saying, like, oh, should you be vulnerable? Like, are you just being vulnerable to be vulnerable? And I'm like, yeah, you need to be people. If you want your audience to be vulnerable with you and to trust you, you have to go first, honestly. And like, it is what it is. I love being open and honest in my marketing. I think it's a huge thing. Like, I have a lot of struggles. Like, why not share them with everyone else who's also struggling?
- [46:25]
B
Like, well, and I, I did a lot of that, especially in the beginning when I was growing because I was like. And actually the email I wrote to my email list this morning was about the first client I fired and how I almost, like, went back to a 9 to 5. And you have to share those stories because the people reading them are right there with you and they, they feel seen and heard. It's not always about educating. Right? It's. And you are educating in a way, but you're holding their hand.
- [46:49]
A
Yeah, I know, I know. I'm like, when did social media only become about educating? I'm like. Or some people say, like, you need to bring value. I'm like, making somebody laugh is valuable.
- [46:59]
B
Valuable.
- [47:00]
A
Making somebody feel heard and seen, valuable. Like, value is not just, I don't know, it's such a broad term. I hate when people are like, make your content valuable. I'm like, what the.
- [47:09]
B
No, I told you. Human connection is valuable.
- [47:13]
A
Yes. You have a great post on this. It's Your four H's.
- [47:17]
B
Yes.
- [47:18]
A
I love it. I love it. I never remember what the H's are, but I feel like I'm very similar.
- [47:22]
B
I made them up, so I have. They're all over the place.
- [47:26]
A
Like, I always am trying to think, like, how am I going to make this person feel? Do I want to make them laugh? Do I want to make them, you know, think? Do I want to trigger them to buy something? Right. So can you tell us. I know you guys, we've been talking for 50 minutes, but can you tell us what those four H's are before we go?
- [47:43]
B
Yeah. So again, I always have to pause and think about. I'm like, what were they again? So it's helpful, which is the obvious one, which is education. Because I think again, too, people think education means masterclass. Blow their mind. I'm like, it wasn't helpful, like, giving someone directions.
- [47:58]
A
Yep.
- [47:58]
B
Right. It's helpful. Like, it doesn't have to be that deep. So something helpful, something that makes them feel heard, which is the one that so many people miss. And that's again, just like we talked about earlier, putting yourself in their shoes, making them just feel like, I feel seen. I need to be a part of this person's community.
- [48:13]
A
Yep.
- [48:14]
B
Third is humor, which is always. Everyone struggles with that one so much. But it's my favorite. It's the easiest. Once you. Again, it just takes the market research, knowing your people, just poking fun. It's good times. And the last is happenings. And that's like, go rogue. Like, oh, you want to. You want to wish your kid a happy birthday, or you want to talk about a milestone your business hit, or you want to talk about. But see, and what's so cool is what you said about the email post. That's a version of Heard. Because a lot of people are going to feel seen in that and be like, I get it, this has happened to me, or whatever. But it's also a happen. It's something that happened in your business behind the scenes. So happenings are typically stuff that they don't see on stories on your grid. It's like, okay, speaking engagements, events you went to. Yeah. Mistakes you've made, things like that.
- [48:58]
A
So many different things. And it makes content a lot easier when you look at it from that lens instead of, I feel like for me, content pillars put me in a box and I don't want to be in a box.
- [49:09]
B
Yeah.
- [49:10]
A
And I know some people, like type A people really do need that box.
- [49:13]
B
Yeah.
- [49:14]
A
That's not me. And that's that's fine. Like, we can each have our own way. But I feel like lenses are much easier for me where. And. And now I don't really even think in lenses. Honestly, content comes a little bit easier to me now, and I just feel like I'm. I'm like, take them along for the ride. Like, anything that's going on in my life, I'm going to make a reel about it. Right. Or business. And that's what content creation is like. That's what it started as. It's. It's just taking them along for the journey and kind of showing them what's possible, like, through your business, through the eyes of your business. So fun stuff.
- [49:48]
B
Yeah.
- [49:48]
A
Shannon, thank you so much for coming on. You are. You're so much fun. I would love it if you could just tell them a little bit about your Reels Lab, because I feel like that's like your. Your main thing that you've got going on, and it's amazing and I see, you know, students crushing it in there. So just tell us a little bit about that and I will tag this and her Instagram in the show notes below for you guys as well.
- [50:09]
B
Awesome, thanks. Yeah, so the Reels Lab, it's definitely for people who already have a strong understanding of their brand and are very comfortable making content. I would try to make that very clear. Like, it's just people that are like, look, I know what my people want. I know what they need. I just want to come up with fresh ideas every week. I give them to you with trending audios and a script, and they're industry specific, so I work with people, literally plumbers to realtors to doctors to coaches to social media managers, et cetera. So if you are a blogger, whatever it is, we got you covered. And then I do a monthly call there inside too. And then if you're brand new to social media and you're like, I don't even know where to start, who am I talking to? I also have the social squad society and then my podcast. Good content. So lots of ways to get in touch and work with me and we'll just love to support you.
- [50:55]
A
Awesome. Well, thank you so much again for being on the show and I will see you guys next week. Thank you so much for hanging out with me and my guests today. If you learned anything from our episode, I would love it if you could share it over on your Instagram stories and tag me igalepugh until next time. Love you. Mean it.