← The Abigail Peugh Podcast
The Abigail Peugh Podcast
29. From Burnt Out Vegan Pastry Chef to a Thriving Digital Product Business w/ Clarisse Flon - Student Spotlight
00:28:08
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- [00:05]
A
You're listening to an episode of the Abigail Pugh podcast with, you guessed it, Abigail Pugh. I'm an introverted mama who took my online business from zero to seven figures in 15 months, selling my own digital products on social media. And guess what? I did it all with my 3 year old daughter no less than 3ft away from me at all times. Now I'm bringing you everything I've learned about building a wildly profitable online business that supports your life while allowing you to truly live it. Get ready for raw, honest conversations with entrepreneurs making thousands per month selling their own digital products and people just like you who ditch self doubt to create the life they've always wanted. If you're ready to make more money, have more impact, and still have time for the things that matter most, you're in the right place. Grab your sneakers, head out on your hot girl walk, and let's dive in. Today's guest is a longtime student of mine and I love her story so much because she is actually a vegan, vegan baker. And she had her business before COVID but then when Covid hit, she had like a big shift in her business and she stopped doing wholesale and she started just selling pastries directly to people. Right. And then two years later, she had her daughter and it just, it wasn't working. She was working, you know, 12 hours a day as a baker and she had to find a different way to make money with her business. Right. And this is something like her story is one of my favorites for digital products because literally, I truly believe anything that you are doing now, you can turn it into a digital product. And she is like living, breathing proof of that. So, Clarice, welcome to the show. I am so excited you're here.
- [01:41]
B
Hi. I'm so happy to be here.
- [01:43]
A
You're so sweet. I love your accent. I always love interviewing people that have an accent because I just. It's so cute. Okay. I'd love to just hear from you a little bit about your journey with digital products. I know I just like gave a very small blurb of your journey, but I'd love to kind of hear from you about it.
- [01:59]
B
So my story has lots of pivots. I've changed what I've done many times, and as you said, when Covid hit, it changed a lot of things. I was working like 12, 14 hours a day when I got pregnant with my daughter and I just couldn't keep this going with a baby. I tried, but it didn't work. Mental health took a massive hit and I started Hearing more about digital products. And I tried doing an ebook initially. Didn't really promote it. I think I must have sold like four copies of it. And then I found you. And I think I took a good four or five months before I bought from you. Like, should I take a chance? I don't know. Like, you see loads of people saying lots of things. Yeah, you never know what's true. And then I was like, I feel like I can trust her. So I took the leap and I got your digital products started yet a year ago. And I took a couple of weeks to create my vegan croissant at home course and it completely changed my life. It went live October last year and the last year has been absolutely crazy. And now I do digital product full time. Teaching people how to bake vegan patisserie.
- [03:17]
A
Dude, I love, I love that it's vegan too, because it's like even more niche down. And I feel like so many people are afraid to niche down even more. But, like, vegan croissants, you guys. I will obviously link her Instagram down below, but her content is so beautiful. Like, you just. It makes me want to eat a croissant. And I'm not even vegan. Like, everything she makes just looks so good and I am obsessed with her content. So tell us a little bit about your growth, because I feel like once you figured out what you wanted to sell, your growth kind of took off because you knew exactly who you were talking to.
- [03:52]
B
I feel like I had a bit of a stroke of genius with the vegan croissant thing because this whole time I thought, I have this recipe. It's incredible. I don't want to do it myself anymore. I don't want to sell a product. It's such a shame that people are not going to taste those croissants. And people are having, like, such terrible options in coffee shops and supermarkets. And I thought, what if I could teach them? And I realized, like, it would be way too complicated to just write down the recipe. Like, it's a process that does require, like, guidance and seeing, like, gestures and like a little bit of me chatting over. I thought to myself, I'm going to make a video. And I really forced myself to launch before I was ready because I'm a perfectionist. And I kept talking myself out of it and thinking, oh, you know, I could be a bit better. And I felt, let's just put it out there and see what happens. And it started selling immediately. I think, like, I had like thousands of people floating my Inbox in the first month, and I sold so many courses in that first month, and, like, I made more money than I had ever made before. And I kept seeing the orders coming in and I felt, this is crazy. I had never expected this to go this far. But then again, I did have, like, the opportunity of being kind of the only one doing what I was doing.
- [05:21]
A
Yeah.
- [05:22]
B
And I've been making vegan pastries for 10 years. When I started doing this, no one was eating vegan food. So I think that really helped me, like, having that niche and having that expertise and being kind of the first one to put something like that out there, that really helped me, like, get traction.
- [05:41]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And I do feel like, too, I mean, like, you had so many years of experience to then pour into this. And I love what you said earlier about, like, launching before you're ready, because I feel like so many of us, even myself, sometimes I get in my head about, like, well, it's not perfect. I need to add this, I need to add that. And the amazing thing about digital products is that you are able to add to them anytime. And I know you just did, like, a big update right now where you added a bunch of things to it. So it's. It's not like it's, you know, a book that gets printed and you can never add to it. The amazing part about digital products is that you can kind of take the feedback from people and adjust it from there. But I love that you said that you did a video course, because I think a lot of the time, people, when you say digital product, they, like, kind of panic. Like, what do I do? Do I have to do a live training? Do I have to do this? And, I mean, you're really good on camera and you're good at talking to people, so I feel like it was the perfect choice for you. But something else I love about digital products is that you really can kind of choose what you like, what works best for you for your first one to kind of see what people need. But it also depends on, like, what you're teaching. So she's teaching, you know, vegan baking, you need to see things for that. Like, you've got to see how things are done. Even for me, like, when I'm baking from a recipe book or a cookbook or something, I have a hard time because they, like, say certain words. I'm like, what does that mean? Like, I have. I have no idea what, like, fold the butter or fold something. Like, I don't know what that means. So I Love that you, I don't know, you did the video course to make sure that people could actually see what you were doing. What was, what was the feedback like on your first course?
- [07:22]
B
It was incredible. And like, I kind of felt, oh, you know, I'm going to put this out there. It's not perfect. And then I was happy with it, but I felt like it could be so much better. And immediately I got like, tons of like, people being like, oh, my God, I made croissant for the first time. And I never felt I could make croissant because I don't really, really know how to bake. But it was so easy to follow. And like, I would get images from people in like India or Australia or the US and like, everyone was like, making my recipe and I was like, this is mad. I have never expected anything like that. But it's everything I've wished for. Like, I wanted. I want everyone in the world to be able to experience amazing vegan pastries. I think everyone deserves that. So it's great that they can just make it themselves, frankly.
- [08:09]
A
Yeah, that's another thing. Digital products, like the impacts you can have because your audience is the whole entire freaking world. Like with a storefront or with selling actual in person ones, you're kind of limited. Like, there's a definite limit of who your audience is and who you can serve. And with digital products, it's literally like the entire world. Like a few weeks ago. So random. My podcast manager will like, send me, you know, little updates of like, how my podcast is doing. And I was number one in like, Estonia and it was so random. And I was like, I love that, like, my podcast, like, hits people in Estonia. Like, what? I just love it so much. And that's how I feel about digital products. Like, they can impact so many more people and I'm obsessed with it. Okay, so I'd love to hear if you have launched anything after that first one that kind of flopped or didn't do as well as you thought and kind of what you did about it, because I feel like. And again, another thing we get real in our head about is if we try something new, you know, maybe the first time was really successful and then you launched something else and it kind of didn't do how you thought it would do if you've kind of experienced that and how you handled it.
- [09:17]
B
So I've launched a few things that flopped, actually.
- [09:20]
A
Welcome to the clip.
- [09:22]
B
It was so successful, I panicked. I don't know how I'm going to keep this momentum going.
- [09:27]
A
And I think that's the point too. Like, you don't keep launch momentum going. And I think some people think you do, but, like, launches are a whole different type of momentum that they don't continue going. You have to. It's. It's different.
- [09:39]
B
And I think the mistake I made was I started focusing on doing seasonal things. I did like a Christmas cookie course, which I'm relaunching actually at the end of this year because I think it's great. But I launched it way too late last year and, like, it needs a bit of an upgrade. And then I did the same thing in January where I launched a course with. For Galette d'eroire, which is like a traditional French cake that we make in January. Same thing. I launched it too late, and then I realized I only have one month to sell that product. That's not great. Yeah, that's very short momentum. And, like, I do think I'm gonna upgrade those course and keep them available, but they were not, like, the smartest choice. And then one of the bad decision I make was I had such a good experience launching my own digital product. And then, like, I grew massively on Instagram. I felt to myself, I'd love to help people do the same thing. And I started talking about digital products, selling social media courses and calls, and they did well, but I think it really confused my audience. I was doing, like, vegan baking and talking about patisserie, and then next post would be about Instagram and then how to make your own digital product. And it was all over the place. And I had to rein it back in. Vegan baking and what you can expect from my page.
- [11:08]
A
Yeah, it's really hard when you, like, learn to love something. You, like, fall in love with something else, and you kind of want to talk about it, but I don't know, like, with what you do, I feel like there's so much you could teach within the vegan baking that, like, the world is like. Like you have so much you could teach that going into other things on that page, at least not saying you couldn't ever start another page or another business. Right. But it is really easy for us multi passionate people to feel like, oh, my gosh, we need to do everything. And I feel like I've struggled with that too. I got a lot of people asking me to teach about email and, like, I don't want to teach about email. I don't. It's not my expertise. It's not my passion. I don't want to answer questions on Email. Ask me a question about a real or a digital product, and it lights me up. I love it. I love that stuff. But it's also really easy to just kind of feel like you need to do everything because you, like, enjoy something once or you saw success with it and you're like, oh, I want to share this with other people. But truly, in my opinion, the money is in the niches and really being able to serve people is in the niches because people know immediately when they come to your page if you are for them or not. Like, it's. It's very clear. Whereas, like, when you mix stuff, it is a lot harder to grow. Um, so talk to me a little bit about your Instagram growth. I know you had, like, a huge surge, and I'm pretty sure you're like, over a hundred thousand followers. I should have checked before. Um, but you just. I feel like you. Your page blew up.
- [12:34]
B
Absolutely. I. So I did Rich Girl Reels in November, I think, and I think I did all the rounds for Rich Girl Reel. But Reach Girl Reels was amazing for me. It really, like, pushed me to get out of my comfort zone and do, like, fun things. And I got tons of reels that completely blew up and got millions of views and that. So when I begin Rich Girl reels, I had 13,000 followers and I ended it with, like 100,000. And now I think I'm 119 or something like that.
- [13:09]
A
Wow, that's insane. And you guys, her results, like, they're not typical. I'm always very honest with you guys. Like, her results, she just blew up. But again, it was because she knew exactly who she was talking to and she really leaned into. I remember talking about this with you. She really leaned into the visuals of it because with baking, like, you're selling this idea of, like, taking a bite of something and just feeling like I'm at home. Like, this is the most delicious thing ever. So I remember we were talking and I told her, like, you need to, like, really go heavy on the baking visuals. Like, I want to be drooling when I watch your content. And if you guys go to her page, you will drool. Like, it's. It's so beautiful. And she does, like, the croissant crunches and, like, when there's something on the inside, she'll, like, make it ooze. And I feel like something else you did really well was tell your story about how you had a baby and, like, you couldn't sustain the 12 hour working days. So you found a different way. And now you can help everyone with vegan baking. So you guys definitely go take a look at her page. She has done an incredible job of sharing her journey, but also like the visuals of her page, I am, I'm obsessed with it. So if you're listening to this and you have any type of, you know, niche or business that is any like, visual at all, like fashion, home, anything like that, lean into those visuals. Because content is supposed to make people feel something and Clarissa's content does. It makes you feel very homey and very just like relaxed and joyful and like, oh my gosh, I'm going to take a bite of this croissant and all my troubles are, are going to go away. And it's just incredible how she has done that. What is one of the most popular types of content for you? Like, what is your audience love the most? For me, would you say so?
- [14:48]
B
I'd say it's changing a lot. Like I can see a lot of change in the algorithm and the way my reels do over the last few months. People always love when I talk about my story. If I start by talking about the fact that I've been doing this for 10 years, I'm a French pastry chef and I specialize in vegan baking, people immediately feel like, oh, this is, this is weird because you're a French pastry chef and they don't do vegan and have 10 years of experience in something that's quite niche. So that tends to like really capture people's attention.
- [15:20]
A
Yeah. When in doubt, go back to storytelling people, they want to know your story. They want to know where you have come from. Like, they don't just want the information thrown at them. Right. Like they want to connect with you. And I feel like I noticed those types of reels for you do really well where you're more storytelling. Not necessarily like, here's how you make vegan butter. Like, it's not hers. Isn't. There's not a ton of educational content on her page and I think she's very right in not doing that because her page is supposed to make you feel like, oh my God, I need to take a bite of this croissant. How can I make it? And she does a really, really good job of that. So where, where are you kind of headed now? I know that you are very multi passionate and I feel like the world of digital products and kind of seeing what it did for your, you know, vegan pastry business and being able to spend more time with your daughter. She calls her daughter Bean too. I call my daughter Bean. I love it. But I, I know that you have big goals and that you're trying to kind of do other things. And again, the coolest part about digital products is that you can kind of start these other not, I don't want to call them side hustles, but other businesses and really kind of pour into your multi passionateness because like the starting cost is so different than like a traditional business. Right. You're not having to go out and buy all these materials necessarily. Like you can start a new Instagram page and start talking about something and see if people are interested. So are you going to keep doing the vegan pastry stuff? Like what, what are your plans now?
- [16:51]
B
So the vegan pastry thing, I am going to keep doing it and I'm going to probably slow down a little bit because I am actually starting a coaching business. So over the last year we've all, when I launched like the digital product and Instagram consultation, I got to go on like tons of calls with clients and a lot of time. It went a lot further than just Instagram and a lot of business advice and how to build a brand and like a little bit of like self growth and how I got to where I am today. And that's something I'm so deeply passionate about. But I've never really had like a way to express it and exchange with people about it. So I'm super, super excited to start doing a bit more coaching and talk to people about social media as well because I love social media and I think it's such an incredible tool that literally anyone could benefit from. So yeah, I am starting a new business. It's called the Slow Living Mother.
- [17:55]
A
Oh, I love it.
- [17:56]
B
That's who I am beside baking, going for walks, taking care of my baby and staying home. That's who I am in a nutshell. So I just want to allow other moms made me to just do that too and feel the freedom and just have like a bit of an identity throughout motherhood. Because sometimes it's really hard to hold on to that once you have a baby.
- [18:19]
A
It is. And it's like I obviously I love my daughter with all my heart. I would do anything for her, but sometimes it's like all consuming and for me personally, like, I'm pretty. Do you have adhd? I'm pretty sure you've mentioned. Yeah, same. And I feel like especially as ADHD moms with, you know, running a business and having kids, it's really easy to be like all consumed with one thing. And I know for me personally, like, I can't just do one thing. And it's. It's been my whole life like this where I've always needed to. Like, I always had one made job and then two or three side hustles because I just loved it. And I loved, you know, my brain being able to, like, work in different ways and not just doing, like, doing the same thing every day makes me want to lose my mind. Which is probably why I like being an entrepreneur so much, because no day is ever the same, ever. But it is. It's so easy to just become fully, I don't know, like, your full identity being a mom. And it's like, we need. We want more. And I want to show my daughter that you can do both successfully as well. So I love that for you. Is it going to be a separate Instagram, like a separate business?
- [19:22]
B
Yes.
- [19:23]
A
I love that. Anyone listening? I would highly recommend when your niches are, like, wildly different, not to say that she could never, like, mention on her baking page, like, hey, I'm starting this new business. Absolutely. Like, bring it up a few times, let them know if this fits for you, come find me there. But they are such completely different niches that I would highly recommend separating them. And I love that you'll have something to pour into that is a little bit deeper. Not that, you know, baking isn't super, like, deep. Right. Like, you can only talk about baking with someone for so long, whereas, like, you could talk to another mom about starting her dream business, I'm sure, for hours. So it's nice to have something else to pour into. Okay. I'd love to hear if you were talking to someone that had, you know, hasn't started their digital product business. They don't know what they want to sell. They don't know, like, they're just at the very beginning phases. What would you tell them? Like, the best way is to kind of jump in.
- [20:23]
B
I'd say find something you could talk for hours about and stop before you're ready. Done is better than perfect. Just put something out there.
- [20:34]
A
Yep.
- [20:35]
B
Start the Instagram page and start posting terrible contents. But posting content. I think four years I had all these ideas and I was just stuck in parallaxes thinking, I'm not good enough to start. If you don't start, you're never going to get good enough. I wish I could tell myself that from a few years ago.
- [20:55]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I tell people all the time, I'm like, go find your favorite creator or business owner or whatever. Scroll Back to the beginning of their Instagram feed and their content's gonna suck. We all sucked at something that we are now good at before. But the only way you're gonna get good at it is by doing it over and over and over and over again. Like, I literally do things, like, hundreds of times before I become good at them. And it's so easy to feel that, like, paralyzation. I hate that feeling. And I know it so well. And it still happens to me to this day where I'm like, I'm just like paralyzed in fear. Like, what if I mess this up? What if it doesn't go as planned? What if, what if, what if? And it's like you just gotta like swim past those what ifs and start. And like, you never know where it's going to leave. Like, how I started my business now is not what it looks like today. It's completely changed and I completely pivoted because I was way more passionate about something else. But if I had never started with the other side of my business, like, I never would have gotten where I am today. And I still remember that summer, like two years ago where it was like, okay, you just need to start, like, pick something and freaking start and go with it. And I'm so glad that I did, because even like with Clarice, she's pivoting into something else. Not completely, she's not like ditching the baking altogether, but she's pivoting to something that she is, if not more passionate or equally passionate about to really just serve more people. Which, again, something I love about digital products so much. Okay, I would love before we go, just to hear maybe like one thing that you feel like you've done really, really well that people can kind of learn from and take into their business something like super tangible that you're like, hey, this works really well for me. I think other people should take this into their digital product business as well.
- [22:43]
B
I think for me, one of the main thing I really wanted to implement was to give people a way to stay accountable. And that's why I did courses, because I think we've all bought like a 20 page PDF from someone and we never opened it. And it's sitting in an inbox and I didn't want that to happen with my products. And the thing I love the most is having conversation with people who are doing the recipes in my DMs. There's always people asking me, like, I'm thinking about trying this, or actually, I've done this. And I think it's wrong. Could you help me out and I can just guide them? Even though, like, the course is very complete, people just love having a bit of a chat. And that's my favorite part of it is like, having this thread of, like, you buy the product, but then I'm holding your hand so that we're going to make it together and I can guarantee that you'll get a result and then we can go from there instead of just, like, you buy it and then you're on your own. And I despair.
- [23:43]
A
Yeah, no, totally. I feel like having something be super tangible and kind of give them, like, no excuse to complete it. And I feel like with your topic specifically, I don't think everyone needs to do a course. And I do think there are ways to make PDFs very easy to implement. But I think for you specifically, it was super important to have it be visual for people and have them kind of have this accountability of, like, okay, I have no idea what I'm doing, but this video is going to walk me through it. I'm curious, do your recipes, like, if they're making it in their kitchen with the videos, can they, like, make it while you're showing the video? Is that kind of how it's done?
- [24:22]
B
It's how it's done, yeah. It's real time. And, like, it comes with, like, an ingredients guide for wherever you are in the world, because we don't the same ingredients. Although my recipes are, like, basic. And I really tried to, like, take them from where they are. So I've had my husband actually take the course because he cannot beg to save his. And I was like, I want this to be as beginner friendly as possible.
- [24:47]
A
Yep.
- [24:48]
B
And he took the course before I upgraded it and he was like, I don't understand what you're saying here. Oh, clearly I need to phrase it differently or I need to add more steps to the video. And it massively helped me because I've done this for 10 years. It's really hard things to be like, wait, people don't know what I'm talking about. So, yeah, that's been. That's been really good.
- [25:09]
A
That's such a smart takeaway, you guys, having somebody who is a complete beginner go through your product. And that's actually what I did with mine at the beginning, too. Because when you become good at something or when you become, I think, I mean, it's fair to say you're an expert in vegan baking. Right. Like, you've had several years of experience, you've Gone through all the education, the schooling, everything. So she is an expert. And when you become an expert in something or you become really good at something, it's so easy to teach from where you're at now. Whereas people taking the course are not experts. Right. So they really need it broken down from them. So if you guys are listening to this and you are creating your digital product or you have them, I would highly, highly recommend having someone who is a complete beginner give you feedback and let you know, like, hey, does this make sense for you? Did it make sense where I said this here? I think it's a great thing to like, have people test your products, maybe like beta test them before they go out, because it's so easy to teach from a place of where you are now and they're not there yet. Like, that's why they bought your course. So I love that. That's literally so genius. And I'm just laughing at the visual of your husband going through this vegan baking course.
- [26:15]
B
We did a couple of reels. Like, I had like three hours of footage to edit and so many dad jokes. And like, I love every time I watch this reel. That is. It is pretty funny.
- [26:27]
A
That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on. This was so much fun, you guys. Like I said, Clarice is, I don't know, she's such a fun follow, even if you're not vegan. I just, like, love her videos and they're so, like, enchanting to watch. And she. You're in. Where are you located?
- [26:43]
B
I'm in Surrey, in England.
- [26:45]
A
Okay, England. I knew. I'm pretty sure it was England. So, like, her house is very English looking too. And like all her videos, you just feel like, oh, I'm like, I feel like I'm on the Great British Baking show sometimes when I watch your reels and I love it so much. But let us know where they can find you. Obviously, you guys, I will tag everything that she mentions in the show notes below, but let them know where we can find you. And probably like the best place to start, if someone is a vegan and they're listening to this and they're like, oh, my gosh, I need a vegan croissant. What's the best place to start with you?
- [27:15]
B
So I have like a free guide to make vegan tarts that you can get on my website, which is chef clariceflon.com My Instagram is Chef Clariceflon. And then like, I have a few starting guides that are like lower price product for people who just want like core recipes. And then obviously you can move on to I have like a patisserie course and then the croissant course. And we do all sorts of pastries and danishes and all of that.
- [27:43]
A
Awesome. Well, I love it. And thank you again so much for coming on the show, you guys. I will see you next week. And thank you so much. Clarice, thank you so much for hanging out with me and my guests today. If you learned anything from our episode, I would love it if you could share, share it over on your Instagram stories and tag megalpugh until next time. Love you. Mean it.