← The Abigail Peugh Podcast
The Abigail Peugh Podcast
50. Why Your Instagram Views Are Down in 2025: Algorithm Update Explained by Brock Johnson
00:34:33
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Transcript50 lines
- [00:00]
Brock Johnson
Foreign.
- [00:04]
Abigail Pugh
You're listening to an episode of the Abigail Pugh podcast with, you guessed it, Abigail Pugh. I'm an introverted mama who took my online business from zero to seven figures in 15 months, selling my own digital products on social media. And guess what? I did it all with my 3 year old daughter no less than 3ft away from me at all times. Now I'm bringing you everything I've learned about building a wildly profitable online business that supports your life while allowing you to truly live it. Get ready for raw, honest conversations with entrepreneurs making thousands per month selling their own digital products and people just like you who ditch self doubt to create the life they've always wanted. If you're ready to make more money, have more impact, and still have time for the things that matter most, you're in the right place. Grab your sneakers, head out on your hot girl walk, and let's dive in. So today's guest has actually already been on the show, but I had to have him back again with all these Instagram algorithm shifts and just stuff going on in the world of Instagram. But let's see if you can guess who it is by listening to my intro for him. So obviously you already know it's a guy. This guy has coached thousands of entrepreneurs and creators on how to grow on Instagram since launching his coaching business in 2018. In 2021, his personal following blew up thanks to his real strategy and he has grown at a rate of approximately a thousand followers per day, which just seems wild. He now has over 700,000 followers and yesterday he literally got to interview the head of Instagram, which is like a celebrity for us. So Brock, you guys didn't already guess? Brock Johnson, welcome to the show.
- [01:38]
Brock Johnson
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate the formal intro. You are awesome and I'm so excited to be here. Flipping love this podcast. And congratulations on, I know you were posting about it on making it as one of the top recommended marketing and business podcasts by Apple. That's. That's flipping awesome.
- [01:56]
Abigail Pugh
Oh my gosh. I like never look at those statistics because I don't want to like feel down if I'm not on there. And it's like I don't know how they. I don't know how they decide on that. Right? So sometimes seeing those things if you're not on there and not having like a logical reason is just hard for me. So I never check. And the other night I checked and so many of my friends were on there too. So like Brock was on there I was on there, and then a few of my other friends were. So it was just really kind of cool to see our names with, like, big a list marketing people.
- [02:24]
Brock Johnson
Totally.
- [02:25]
Abigail Pugh
It was a lot of fun. So, Brock, so excited to have you back. As you guys heard me say, he's already been on the show, but I'm like, you know what? Let's just have him back. Because I feel like my DMs right now are flooded with people saying, what's going on with the algorithm? Did it change? My views suck. Everything sucks, and I don't love it. And we're not going to go into anything that Brock talked about with Adam yesterday, the head of Instagram, because he has his own podcast coming out on that, which I'm excited to listen to. But Brock, can you tell us a little bit about what's going on with the algorithm?
- [02:56]
Brock Johnson
Yeah. So this has been really one of the biggest noticeable shifts in the algorithm that I've noticed recently. There have been times in the past where I'm like, hey, it seems like a lot of people's views are down. It seems like things are changing, but it's always kind of like a feels like, or seems like this has been like a wow. I'm talking to you. I'm talking to a bunch of our other colleagues who are in this space. I'm looking at, like, our students profiles. I'm looking at people's accounts and digging into the data. And like, the numbers are different. And specifically the biggest thing that I've seen change in the last really few weeks. I don't know exactly when it. When this change took place, but there's a pie chart when you're looking at your specifically your reels insights. And this is specific to reels, this change. And on this pie chart, it shows you where your views are coming from. Like, what percentage of your viewers are followers. Right. Versus what percentage of your viewers are non followers, to use the term that Instagram uses. They call that unconnected reach. And it doesn't make sense, views from non followers. But basically it used to be like 90% or 85. You know, it's a high percentage of your views were coming from your followers. Now it's damn near 50, 50, like a lot. Some of my posts are like, even worse. They're like 40% of my views are coming from my followers and 60% coming from non followers. In the past, that sort of graph, those sort of stats would only happen if you had a post to go viral, which that makes sense, you know, if you're reaching millions of people, you're gonna have a lot more non followers viewing it. But now, even on the posts that aren't performing all that great or they're below average, the half of the viewers, or almost half of the viewers do not follow you. So that's really the manifestation of this change and that's what we've been seeing for the last few weeks, maybe even the last month or two.
- [04:51]
Abigail Pugh
Yeah. And to me, honestly, it feels kind of like TikTok's algorithm. I feel like that's kind of how TikTok works, where a lot of your content gets pushed to new people. Whereas Instagram, I do feel like before it used to go more towards your people. And I'm even hearing in my DMs, people are like, I don't see your stuff as much anymore. I, I'm just seeing a bunch of things that like people that I don't follow yet. And I thought it was so interesting. I'm like, huh? But what, what can people do? Like, what, what, what can we do if we are like, if your content is going to more new people, what should we do? Because I do feel like, number one, I feel like content is taking longer to perform well. Like my reels that sometimes will be like, okay, I know this is gonna take off. It's taking two or three weeks. Right. And I just find that really interesting that, like, it's taking the algorithm a long time to push it, but it's still pushing it, just much slower. But I am also noticing my content is going to new people. So what do we do?
- [05:45]
Brock Johnson
Yeah, okay. I love this. So I have, I have like three main things that I would recommend that everyone does, and then a fourth that's kind of like, oh my gosh, this is so good. Like, we all need to do this and like a bonus.
- [05:57]
Abigail Pugh
So you heard it here first, guys.
- [06:00]
Brock Johnson
We'll start with, we'll start with the first one, which is something that, you know, I know you've been talking about it. I've been talking about it for, for quite a while now. And this has come directly from Instagram. They have said this, that shares are the best form of engagement. And part of that is that shares help you reach more new people. Well, also new people enjoy the kind of content that is share worthy. There's kind of like a symbiotic relationship there. And so the first thing I would say is creating the kinds of content that is share worthy is a great way to make sure that, hey, if my posts are getting seen by these new people that it is the kind of post that they're going to enjoy seeing, that it's not just going to reach them and then fall on unengaged eyes and unengaged ears, but they're actually going to want to engage. And specifically, I would recommend leaning into the really relatable content, the content that shows, hey, I have an understanding for who you are as my target follower. And the cool thing there is that you're not forgetting about your existing followers when you do that. Right? Like, you are literally creating content. And as I know, you preach for your audience, for your tribe of people, and it's going to resonate really strongly with the existing followers. And when it reaches the new people, it will resonate really strongly with them. It'll increase the likelihood that they share it and the likelihood that they engage. And hopefully, you know, the creme de la creme is that they become an actual follower and they don't just remain as an unfollower. So that's the first thing that I would suggest doing.
- [07:34]
Abigail Pugh
Yeah, I love that. And I love that you said how it kind of hits home for both people that don't follow you, that people and people that do. Because I do feel like sometimes people are like, hey, I. I want to create content for new followers, but I don't want to bore my current followers. And I'll just say, like, little mental note here, I've been using trial reels more so to create, like growth content for new people. And then while. While my reels still are kind of going half and half, I've found that my carousels go a lot more to my followers. So I've been trying to lean into carousels a little bit more and they're easier, honestly. Like, take a reel that's performed well, that maybe got some decent shares and turn that into a carousel instead. It's not that hard to repurpose content. And I feel like it's just carousels are doing better for hitting my current audience.
- [08:25]
Brock Johnson
Yeah, that's definitely, I think part of this, like, algorithm change that we're all experiencing in general, this is just the part that doesn't relate to reels, but I guess it kind of does, is, yeah, while reels might be getting this divided view ratio, carousels are crushing right now. And it might be directly because of this change with reels. And so, yeah, absolutely. I think that that is a spot on, like, such a great strategy. I know you've been really championing trial reels and like, yeah, use those to reach as many Non followers as you can. While we can, we can really abuse this, this feature. Do it and then use carousels to really reach more of your existing followers and provide those educational value. Heavy story heavy posts that might not necessarily be as viral or be as great at attracting followers, but they're really great at nurturing the relationship.
- [09:17]
Abigail Pugh
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, number two, what's next?
- [09:20]
Brock Johnson
Yeah. Okay, so the second thing I would say is along the same lines as number one, but creating content that specifically is focused on engaging with that new follower or meeting them where they are. So some general things that I would recommend here are simplify your content. Simplify, simplify, simplify. Not because your followers are dumb, but simply because especially these new people who have never seen you before, they don't have that immediate trust with you. Like, if someone already follows you, they know all about you. They know how many miles you're walking every day. They know how your body is sore right now. They know, like, they know all this stuff about you and so they see you're real and they're instantly going to stick around a little bit longer because they've already invested. They're going to give you a better chance at engaging them versus a new person who. The second you say a word they don't understand, they're scrolling. The second you start talking about a topic that goes over their head or that uninterests them, they're scrolling. And so what I would say is don't overly dumb down your content, but simplify it. Like use if, if you have the choice between two synonyms, two words that mean the same thing, use the simpler one, not the one that makes you sound smarter and strokes your ego. But simplify your reels. Simplify your captions. Simplify the things that you're teaching. If you are doing like an educational reel, don't try to teach 17 different things and give me all these different crazy tips. Just give one one and like I said, really emphasize the relatability. And then the final kind of thing that I'll say is ask for the follow. Like, if you know your reels are going to be reaching, you know, 50% of the views coming from non followers, say it in your reel. Like ask for people to follow. And instead of just saying follow for more, follow for more daily tips on how to become a better rock climber. Like, give them a reason why. You can also type that in your caption. You could add it as like a little blurb at the bottom of your caption. And I think that just doing that should hopefully you know, as these new people are seeing your reels increase the likelihood that they are actually going to follow.
- [11:23]
Abigail Pugh
Yeah, absolutely. And one little note on that. If you are someone that is wordier, which a lot of my students struggle with this inside of my community where they are, they're a deep person and they write in a very, like, deep tone and people are scanning on social media. Even when I'm scrolling, like, I'm scanning. And if I'm not, like, instantly hooked, I scroll on. Right. Like, I have a squirrel brain. We all do right now. And so something that I always recommend is if you're like wordier or you can't figure out a way to kind, kind of dumb it down, take it into ChatGPT and say, hey, can you word this in a way that a seventh grader would understand it? Right. I feel like that's kind of like a really good basis. Like seventh graders, they understand a lot, but still it like dumbs it down in a way to where it's like, much easier to instantly understand because that's what you have to remember. If somebody doesn't like, instantly vibe with or connect with what you're saying, they are going to scroll on.
- [12:12]
Brock Johnson
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And then the third thing, before we get to the bonus thing, the third thing that I'm recommending people do right now is reintroduce yourself more. And there's really three ways that you can reintroduce yourself. So maybe there's four. The first one is entire posts that are just dedicated to, I'm going to reintroduce myself. I think that we kind of take it for granted. You know, oftentimes we maybe do one introduction post a year or even less. Like, I know I fall into the habit of, like doing like one on my birthday and then I don't think about it for the rest of the year. Okay, well, what if someone followed me a few days after my birthday, birthday. So they're gonna go 362 days without really ever getting a, like, start here or. And like, yeah, they can learn about me over time. They can watch my stories, but they're never getting it directly from me saying, here are my values, here is my why, here is the purpose, here's what I'm doing, here's why you should follow me. And that sort of like, reintroduction post is something that I am recommending that people do a little bit more of now. You know, maybe you're gonna do it every other month instead of doing it every six Months, that sort of thing. Another area or another way that you can reintroduce yourself without doing a full blown nice to meet you reintroduction post is to sprinkle it into your caption. Like just a little blurb, kind of like I was saying earlier with the follow me, but instead of just a sentence of follow me for, you can kind of reintroduce yourself. You can say, hey, if you're new here, my name is Sean and this is the sort of thing I'm posting about. You can also work that. The third thing you can do is work that into the post. So it doesn't have to be an entire post dedicated to reintroducing yourself. But if you just, you know, you're making a post and midway through the post you almost interrupt yourself, or after the hook, you kind of say, hey, and if you're new here. And YouTubers do this all the time, like, you can't get through a YouTube video without having them reintroduce themselves. And that's because if you look at the pie chart on YouTube, usually it's like maybe 20% of their viewers are subscribed and the other 80% are not subscribed. They're finding them through search, discovery. And so that's why it's such common practice on YouTube to reintroduce yourself and ask people to press subscribe in every single video. So you don't need to do it in every single reel or every single post on Instagram. But just getting in the habit of doing it more regularly is helpful. And then I think the fourth way that you can kind of reintroduce yourself, besides putting in the caption, besides putting a little blurb in the reel, besides making an entire reel about it, is looking back through the reels that you've previously posted and just for yourself personally. And maybe you can think of some. Just as I'm saying this, you know, are there any reels that you feel like, hey, these might not be as educational, but these do a really good job of telling my story, or these do a really good job of illustrating my values, or this does a really good job of showing off something that I believe in my industry or something that, you know, I disagree with the norm about, and that's a good way that you're not doing a full reintroduction, but you are reintroducing something that is important and an important aspect or component of you or your business or your account.
- [15:27]
Abigail Pugh
Yeah. And I feel like those are so easy to kind of just reuse. Like Introduction style reels and then storytelling carousels. Honestly, I would write out your story and again, take it to ChatGPT and say, hey, make this, like, a little bit more clear and make it shorter and more, like, engaging for people to read. And then go create a thread out of it. If that does well, great. Take it to a carousel the next month, turn it into a reel, and kind of just keep telling little parts of your story. And the cool thing about telling your story, too, is that you don't have to tell the whole story every single time. Like, you can tell a small part of your story every single time. And I think that's what overwhelms some people, is they're like, oh, my God, my story is 10 years long. Like, what do I say? I'm like, no, no, no, you don't have to tell the. Like, tell one little journey where you got from, like, B to C and tell us a little bit about that. I kind of did one of those today. I did that trend, which I'm obsessed with it. It's so fun where it's like, she doesn't know yet. And then you use an old video of you, like, however many years again, and then. But she's about 2. And then you, like, explain what's about to happen. Right? So I did one where it's like, she doesn't know yet, but she's about to build a $2 million business while simultaneously being poisoned by her rental house. And then I go into a little bit about my mold story and then talk about, like, if you're struggling in your business, like, I see you, I've been through it. I literally built my most successful business yet during one of the hardest times of my life. Like, I get it. And so I didn't tell my entire story of building my business. I didn't even, like, remotely touch on everything that went with my mold journey. But I just told, like, one little piece of the story, and that was intended as, like, an introduction or a little bit more about me post. So don't feel like when you're doing these introduction posts that it needs to be your whole lifelong story. I would suggest having a longer one pinned to your profile, if you can. That's, like, about your journey, but that's not what you need to be doing every single month.
- [17:19]
Brock Johnson
Yeah, I. I absolutely agree. Absolutely agree. Okay, so now the fourth thing, the kind of bonus thing, whatever the thing, that it's going to require a little bit more digging into the data, but I think this is really fun, and it's not going to require like a, you know, a tech background or anything like that. Basically it's just Instagram doesn't give us this stat and so we're going to have to take two stats that they do us and find our answer. So got it, what I've been recommending. And here's what I'm going to tell everyone listening to do right now. They can do this. While I'm talking, pull up your Instagram insights and sort your posts. You could do all posts or you can do just your specifically your reels and sort them in your stats, in your insights by views. And you can do the time frame of like the last year. So basically you'll see your most viewed posts in the last 365 days. Then open up a spreadsheet, open up a Google sheet, and again, this is. I'm not a type a person. Like, you know me. I'm not, you know, I'm not Mr. Organized like, you should see my desk right now. But just open a spreadsheet. Don't worry, there's only gonna be a couple columns. Column number one, column A, write down all of those top viewed posts. Just go down in order. Like write down, you know, whatever your most viewed posts were. I don't care if they got 30 million or if they got 30 views. Just write down, I would say approximately your for your Top 25, Top 25 most viewed posts and just write down how many views they got. That's column A. Column B is. Then go through each of those posts individually and write down in column B, correlating directly in, you know, column A, how many followers each of those posts gained for you. Because what you'll see is that there's not a direct correlation between views and followers. You'll be like, whoa, my most viewed post only got me this many followers. But my seventh most viewed post got me way more followers. So that's column A and column B, Instagram. I wish they would just like give us all of this in one spot. But it's, it's. They don't. So you gotta do your own spreadsheet here.
- [19:27]
Abigail Pugh
You can ask Adam next time you see him, tell him this is what we want.
- [19:31]
Brock Johnson
Yes, no. And he, he's very aware that like there are lots of stats that he wishes they could provide or that they could highlight that they just can't. But I digress. Column C is basically just divide those two numbers and that will tell you how many views it took you to gain a follower. I'll give you my Own numbers. For example, my most viewed reel last year was 11.6 million views and it gained me 5,273 followers. So if I divide 11.6 million divided by 5,200 followers, that tells me that it took me about, for that reel, about 2,200 views, 2,200 views to get one follower. Let's compare that to my ninth most viewed post. My ninth most viewed post got 600,000 views. So it got 11 million less views. 600,000 views, and yet it got me 6,000 followers.
- [20:30]
Abigail Pugh
Oh, wow.
- [20:31]
Brock Johnson
And so the ratio there is that that post only needed 100 viewers to gain a follower. For every 100 views it gained me a follower. Now here's where the fun comes in. Here's where the actual, like, what do we do with all this data? Look through those posts and you'll notice a trend real quick. You'll notice and it's. And it's going to be different. My guess is for almost everyone watching, it's going to be different in terms of what sorts of posts generate the most followers and what I found. I'll give you my own analysis. Just like the high level analysis was that the memes, the funny posts, the more light hearted quick posts, those were more likely to go like mega viral and reach millions of people. But those posts had a much tougher time bringing in followers. Whereas the posts that were more edutainment there was, it was still entertaining, of course, it was still captivating, it still made people want to walk. But there's like an educational component or even an inspirational component. Those ones gained way more followers. For me, that's just like surface level. I can, I can look at that. But what I could even do, and this is what I would recommend for anyone who's really getting excited as I'm talking about this deep dive, like, yeah, success leaves clues. So what I'm going to do now is not just go back and say, okay, well this one was a meme and this one was edutainment. But what was my hook in these? What, what was I specifically talking about? What was the topic? What was my call to action? How long was my caption? What time of day did I post this? What was my environment? Was this filmed in my like professional fancy studio office? Or was this filmed on my iPhone in my car with some dingy lighting, like looking at all of those little elements to see what was it that might have been the reason, not just for the views, but specifically for the followers. And then create that kind of content right Ultimately, all of this is just to say, this is the content that you have already. Your account has already shown is going to not just bring in views, but actually bring in followers from those views. So really lean into the content that. That has a great ratio. That only takes you 100 views to get a follower, rather than 13,000 like one of mine does.
- [22:42]
Abigail Pugh
And I think it's such a good reminder that views don't always equal follows or sales. And I think sometimes we get. Yes, you do need the visibility. And I feel like step one is learning how to get people to watch your content and learning, like, what they like, what they don't like. But that can't be the only metric that you are looking at. Like, yes, my views are down, but my sales are not and my follows are not. So I'm like, okay, cool. Like, I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing because it's working for me. Right. And I am having to let go of a lot of like, okay, like, I teach Instagram growth, and some of my reels are just not performing great. But again, like, that's me looking at views, and that's me looking at that, which, like, people call it a vanity metric. I do think it's a metric you need to look at because, again, like, you need visibility. And views literally is the visibility that you're getting out into the world, but they are not everything. And have you been posting less memes and less, like, content like that?
- [23:39]
Brock Johnson
Um, not necessarily. Slightly less. Slightly less. I also know that's the kind of content that is going to reach a lot of people. So it's not necessarily that I've scaled that back as much as I've just scaled up the other category. I've tried to lean more heavily into the. The edutainment and recreate those. Those posts that did really well.
- [23:58]
Abigail Pugh
Yeah, I feel like that's what I've been seeing a lot from you, where it's. It's where you're, like, being funny, but you're also teaching us something, which I really love. Now, I want to talk to you a little bit about posts where you are collaborating with someone else. I know we've done one and somebody else has done one. Do you think that is helpful as well? Like, I. I love collaboration posts. I think they're genius. But did you think that's helpful as well? Because then people are essentially getting in front of somebody's audience who already trusts that person, which that trust is kind of like, transferred into the new person.
- [24:28]
Brock Johnson
Yeah, absolutely. There was some study that recently came out that said that only about 1% of posts on Instagram are collab posts. So by making a collab post, like, you are in such a. I don't want to say elite minority, but you're in such a. Such a minority that is, like, taking advantage of this feature on Instagram that is so useful, that has so many upsides, like you said, of you're reaching an audience of people who they already trust that person, the person you're collaborating with. And so by that person collaborating with you, they trust you.
- [24:59]
Abigail Pugh
Yeah.
- [25:00]
Brock Johnson
And so, you know, I used to be a real stickler when talking to people about collab posts of like, hey, you want to collaborate with someone who has relatively the same size following, or more importantly, relatively the same size engagement, relatively the same size reach. Because if you get 50,000 views on every post and they get a thousand views, you know you're not going to benefit from that. Your views are going to go way down. That's what I used to say, but now I'm like, screw that. Like, if. Of course, it should make somewhat sense, like, you don't want to be someone with 13 million followers doing a collab with someone who's got 10 followers. Like, make it make some sense. Yeah. But, like, even if the. The scale is not necessarily even for. For you, even if, like, you're collaborating with someone with a slightly smaller account, go for it. Because those are people who are, like, the perfect audience. Right?
- [25:51]
Abigail Pugh
Yeah.
- [25:52]
Brock Johnson
The one thing, speaking of audience that I will say needs to be on the same page is you need to make sure that you're in the same niche. Right. Like, I am collaborating with rock climbers and cake bakers and snowboarders. You know, I'm. I'm gonna collaborate with other Instagram coaches and other marketers and other social media coaches. So as long as that's in alignment, knock your socks off. And I hope this is an encouragement to anyone listening, too, who is on the other side of the scale. They have, like, that smaller audience, like, reach out to these bigger creators. You never know when they're going to say yes. My final pro tip before I shut up is just make sure when you do reach out that you have a clear idea. Like, don't just reach out and say, hey, do you want to collab? And then they're like, yeah. And then you're like, okay, what ideas do you have? And suddenly it's like, they have to do all this work. Now, my favorite collabs are when someone reaches out to me and they're like, hey, I have this idea. Here's the post. It's already made. I took a photo of you from Google and I put it in the. In the carousel. Or here's the script that I want you to say for the reel. Record this seven second clip and you're done. It makes it so much easier on that other person and it increases the likelihood that they're going to want to say yes.
- [27:00]
Abigail Pugh
Yeah, I'm over here going, phew. That's exactly what I did. When I asked Brock to collaborate the first time. I was like, hey, let's talk about X, Y, Z. I just need your input here and your input here, and then I'll make everything else and then invite you because, like, we are friends. Yes. So even if I hadn't done that, I'm sure Brock would have said yes, like, we're good friends. But I was like, I want to make this so easy for him to say yes. Like, this was my idea. And then he tricked me into doing another collaboration post where he tricked all of us in the real, but he did all the work. He just said, send me a video. And I was like, okay. I literally have no idea what this is for. Tells you how much I trust Brock. I was like, okay. He did tell me that it would go on the Internet, but yeah, I think collaboration posts, especially carousel ones, I think people forget that you can collab on a carousel because we so often, like, just think about reels. I feel like people are like, in this tunnel and like, reels, reels, reels, reels. And like, no hair salt ones are so much easier, honestly, because you don't.
- [27:52]
Brock Johnson
Much easier.
- [27:53]
Abigail Pugh
You don't have to, like, try and do a transition because not everybody, like, knows how to do transitions. And I'm always like, if you can't nail the transition, don't do it. Because then it's just. You don't want that. You want your transition to be really good. But carousels, you can kind of take a little bit of information from each person and, like, infuse that into the carousel. So he just. You just did one. Was it today or yesterday with somebody else?
- [28:15]
Brock Johnson
It was this morning. Yeah, with marketing Harry. And it was the same thing. He reached out to me. We do collabs all the time, him and I, and he's. This is no offense to you or to anyone else. I think he's my favorite person to collab with because he literally says, hey, Brock, you want to do another collab? And I say yes. And then he sends Me the link to a completed carousel that he has already made in Google Drive. And it's like got my face on it and it's got my tips in it. And he's like, I had my team make this or I designed this and let me know when you want to post it. And like, that's it, like, the work is done. And so. But that's a no brainer, right? And, and I totally agree, carousels are way easier whenever there's a reel. Like, it's like when we're in person. Like when you and I have, have like been at like Stan's event last year and we're in person then, or doing a reel together is a little bit easier because we're standing shoulder to shoulder. But to your point, like the different angles and transitions and different mic volumes, if you're doing a talking head and there's, there's just so many more elements that go into making a good collab reel. So collab carousels are just so much easier.
- [29:18]
Abigail Pugh
Yeah, I love them. Okay, last question before I let you go. I know you've been traveling, you know, meeting the head of Instagram. I'm just dropping that a few times because I think it's like the coolest thing ever. And again, he's like a celebrity here for us.
- [29:33]
Brock Johnson
He's a big deal to us. Yeah, I tried to tell him what a celebrity he was and he like, I think that was like my opening question or my opening statement is like, hey, like, you're more visible than any other head of a social media. And what I meant is, like, you're showing up on your, your stories and your feed and you're giving tips. I get it. He's not more visible than Elon Musk. I get it. He's not more popular or more of a celebrity than Zuckerberg. But in terms of like showing up on your own app and talking about your own app, I would say he's more visible than anyone else. So yeah, I told him that and he tried to disagree and we, we kind of went back and forth about it. We laughed about it, but I could tell his brain immediately was like, I'm not more famous than Elon Musk. And anyways, I digress.
- [30:12]
Abigail Pugh
That's not what I meant. That's so funny. Okay, what is one piece of advice you have for people that most people are not telling other people? I know there's like tons of gurus and I don't trust a lot of people with Instagram growth. There's probably like five People that I'm like, okay. Everything that comes out of their mouth, like, I trust them. I know it. So one piece of advice for people who are trying to grow and they're just feeling. I don't know, they're just feeling stuck or they're feeling, like, great, I'm never gonna get out of this. What is. What have we coined it? 200 view jail? Where they're just feeling.
- [30:41]
Brock Johnson
Ah.
- [30:42]
Abigail Pugh
So, like, what's one thing that they can do?
- [30:44]
Brock Johnson
Yeah. So you're gonna love this. This is. I haven't. I don't think I've shared this tip anywhere else. This is super good. This, actually, this comes directly from Adam in our conversation yesterday. So. And this has never been said before. Okay. Just keep showing up and keep improving a little bit day after day. Yes, it was sarcasm. This has been said a million times before. This did not come from Adam yesterday. But this actually did. But it's. It's not novel. And that's the thing. It's not novel. It's not new. I think oftentimes people, and I'm guilty of this myself, even, are often looking for the novel, the new hack, the new trick, the new gimmick, the new way to beat the algorithm, when ultimately that's not what's going to make a difference. And the reason that you hear these cliches over and over again, and the reason that I feel like I can't go on a podcast or speak in public without saying what I'm saying right now is because I think you need to hear it over and over again. And so for anyone listening right now, you're not hearing this by accident. I believe you're hearing this for a purpose. Keep showing up. Keep showing up for your audience. Keep showing up for yourself. Keep showing up for your business. Keep showing up for your past self that you're making proud and your future self that you're also making proud and just improve a little bit each day.
- [32:05]
Abigail Pugh
Yep.
- [32:05]
Brock Johnson
Like one little thing. Can I make my captions a little better? Can I make my hooks a little stronger? Is there a way I can level up the quality of my content? Like the actual video quality, hd, the audio quality? Is there a way I can improve my editing, improve one little tiny thing each day, and keep showing up? Because most people will not be able to keep showing up. Most people will get lost in the weeds of the algorithm changes, and they'll get lost in the weeds of. I tried this new hack, and this guru said it would work, and it worked last week, and it didn't work today and they'll get lost and they'll get bogged down and they'll get frustrated. And that's human nature. But just keep showing up. And if you can do that, which 99% of people can't or aren't willing or are unable to do, then you will have an account that is performing better than 99% of all other accounts. Just keep showing up day after day, making those little improvements and you'll be all right.
- [32:55]
Abigail Pugh
Yep. I've heard you say this before. That, and I totally agree. Quantity leads to quality, you guys. The more you do something, the more you learn, the more you just learn to post. And look at that post as data instead of associating any of your worth or any of your business's success with that post. Instead, just being like, okay, why did this do better? Why did this do worse? What can I improve on next time? I think sometimes we get so discouraged because we put so much of our self worth into our posting. And I do it too. Sometimes I have to like, just kind of tell myself, stop doing that. Yeah, um, there's. There's no correlation between your self worth and how many views you get on Instagram. So we're going to leave you with that. Thank you so much. Brock, when is your episode coming out with? What is it? Is it. Do you say it? Adam Mozeri, Is that right?
- [33:41]
Brock Johnson
Yes. Yes, you said it correctly. Yes.
- [33:42]
Abigail Pugh
The head of Instagram. When is that coming out?
- [33:44]
Brock Johnson
Yeah, it's coming out. I think the first week of April is our tentative plan. That could change, But I believe April 4th is like that. Thursday. Thursday's usually when we do new episodes. So Thursday, April 4th.
- [33:55]
Abigail Pugh
Awesome. On which podcast? I know you have a few.
- [33:57]
Brock Johnson
Build you'd tribe. Yeah, build your tribe. So there will be a video version on YouTube and then there will be audio on. On all the audios.
- [34:04]
Abigail Pugh
Awesome. I'll make sure to link his podcast down below for you guys so that you can find that. I watch it. I know I'm going to watch it on my TV with some popcorn. It's going to be lots of fun. So thank you so much, Brock and you guys. Love you mine. I will see you next week. Thank you so much for hanging out with me and my guests today. If you learned anything from our episode, I would love it if you could share it over on your Instagram stories and tag me at Abigail Pugh until next time. Love you. Mean it.