MJ Lenderman CALLS OUT Cameron Winter (not clickbait)

Summary

The Adam Friedland Show

Episode: MJ Lenderman CALLS OUT Cameron Winter (not clickbait)
Date: February 11, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Adam Friedland Show is centered around a lively and at times irreverent conversation with indie songwriter and musician MJ Lenderman. The discussion swings between MJ’s music journey, band culture, growing up in North Carolina, Catholic childhood, humorous tales from touring, relationships with fans, and thoughts on artistic validation. Adam and MJ riff on everything from Catholic rituals to Kanye West’s controversies, capturing both MJ’s dry wit and Adam’s characteristic comedic banter.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Live Performance by MJ Lenderman

• [00:11-03:38] The episode opens with a poignant, stripped-bare live performance by MJ (singing “French Inhaler” by Warren Zevon).

  "Tell me how you gonna make your way in the world when you weren't cut out for? And you just can't concentrate? And you always show up late?" (MJ Lenderman, [00:31])

• Adam plugs the upcoming full performance release as "Taps Unplugged" on Friday the 13th.

2. Adam’s Introduction & Show Format

• [04:12-05:58] Adam Friedland welcomes listeners, announces tour dates, and introduces the new live performance segments for the show. He jokes about episode planning and riffs with the crew.
• [05:58-06:31] Adam greets MJ, referencing his resemblance to David Letterman and bringing a playful energy to their sit-down.

3. Friendly Banter & The ‘Young Bucks’

• [07:00-07:52] Adam recounts MJ’s stage presence and the competitive environment, comparing it to Bob Dylan and Donovan’s famous face-off. MJ jokes that Cameron (presumably Cameron Winter) is “two feet taller” than him—highlighting light-hearted rivalry.

  "He’s literally one inch taller than you." (Adam Friedland, [07:08])
  "No, he’s not. He’s like two feet taller than me." (MJ Lenderman, [07:14])

4. Musical Influences & Rites of Passage

• [08:02-09:11] MJ talks about his influences (Drive-By Truckers, Dinosaur Jr., Neil Young). Adam and MJ discuss Neil Young’s Spotify politics and cultural impacts like voting for Bernie Sanders.

  "I have the iPod Archives app on my phone." (MJ Lenderman, [08:46]) "It was really nice of him that he became an American citizen so he could vote for Bernie." (Adam Friedland, [09:16])

5. Catholic Upbringing & Altar Boy Tales

• [09:31-10:23] MJ describes being raised Catholic in Asheville, North Carolina, his progression as an altar boy, and mishaps like placing the cross sideways during service.

  "I was one of the best altar servers of all time." (MJ Lenderman, [10:09])

6. Pope, Humor, and Stage Names

• [10:56-12:15] After riffing about an “American Pope from Chicago,” MJ reveals his real name is Mark Jacob and discusses choosing “MJ Lenderman” for its less “jock” vibe.

  "When I started releasing music on the internet when I was in high school, I thought Jake just didn’t sound good. Yeah, sounded like a jock." (MJ Lenderman, [11:54])

7. Stories from the Road

• [12:33-13:31] MJ recounts accidental cultural offenses (“slags” in Ireland), fan antics, and humorous travel moments (drunk kids on flights).

  "I was talking about the plane ride over there and I said I was sitting around a bunch of slags. I didn't know what that meant. It’s sluts." (MJ Lenderman, [12:43])

8. Family, Musical Beginnings, and Fan Relationships

• [13:31-15:07] Adam probes MJ’s family support, especially his parents’ encouragement and feedback styles. MJ’s mom critiques his look, MJ recounts supportive but realistic guidance.

  "Our sets wouldn’t start till like 11pm because we’re playing." (MJ Lenderman, [14:25])
  "They never told me not to play a show or something." (MJ Lenderman, [14:30])

9. Career, Artistic Growth & Self-Doubt

• [19:02-23:39] An extended, open conversation about the creative process, perfectionism, and putting out music despite self-doubt.

  "If you’re just trapped up, super concerned with only putting out things that are genius, then you’ll never put anything out." (MJ Lenderman, [22:53]) "The only way you get what I found is, like, in the middle stage... Just put it out. The middle stage is like the gym. That's like the reps, they hate." (Adam Friedland, [23:04])

10. MJ’s Basketball Past and Indie Rock Pickup Game

• [24:00-26:17] Discussion on basketball—MJ’s “sniper” days in seventh grade, how basketball and music require discipline and “putting up shots.” They muse about indie rockers like Thurston Moore and imagined pickup games.

11. Fame, Fans & The Challenge of Recognition

• [30:04-31:26] The duo explores the realities of fan interactions, loud crowds, and the perils of overzealous admirers—like a recurring fan demanding to see MJ’s feet.

  "He kept telling me to take my shoes off. He said, let me see those feet." (MJ Lenderman, [30:47]) "Stop it." (MJ Lenderman, [31:19])

12. Pandemic Productivity

• [31:29-33:02] MJ reflects on the impact of COVID: working in an ice cream shop, unemployment payments, and finding it the most productive, creatively fertile period of his life.

  "It was the most prolific period of time for me because we had a really, really fortunate living situation, too." (MJ Lenderman, [31:46])

13. Validation, Peer Recognition, and Motivation

• [34:05-34:53] Adam and MJ discuss what markers of success matter—peer approval, self-validation, and not falling into artistic complacency.

  "I think that’s why you’re good. It definitely means more with peers that I respect." (MJ Lenderman, [34:23]) "And that guy... was Brian Eno." (Adam Friedland, joking, [34:43])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Focus and Streaming Music:
  "Focus is totally gone. But I'm thankful that I had the resources to listen to whatever I wanted to at any time."
  — MJ Lenderman, [17:16]

• On Self-Doubt and Progress:
  "If you're just trapped up, super concerned with only putting out things that are genius, then you'll never put anything out."
  — MJ Lenderman, [22:53]

• On Peer Recognition:
  "It definitely means more with peers that I respect."
  — MJ Lenderman, [34:23]

• On the Creative Process:
  "Every time it feels awesome to finish a song. And then sometimes within the next couple days, like, oh, it wasn't that good."
  — MJ Lenderman, [22:02]

• On COVID Impact:
  "It was the most prolific period of time for me because we had a really, really fortunate living situation, too."
  — MJ Lenderman, [31:46]

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Memorable/Lighthearted Segments (Timestamps)

• MJ’s Opening Song: [00:11-03:38]
• Competitiveness with Cameron Winter: [07:08-07:51]
• Catholic Hierarchy & Altar Boy Tales: [09:31-10:23]
• MJ’s “Slags” Story in Ireland: [12:43-12:53]
• Eminem Fandom/First Song: [17:41-18:19]
• Put Up Shots (Basketball as Music Metaphor): [23:39-24:10]
• Fan Requests to See MJ’s Feet: [30:47-31:26]
• Improvised, Motivational Creative Wisdom: [22:08-23:39]

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Flow & Tone

The episode balances earnest conversations about creativity and growth with sardonic, often absurd humor—a hallmark of Adam Friedland’s style. MJ matches the host’s wit, giving thoughtful insights on self-improvement and the indie musician’s path while not shying away from poking fun at himself and his experiences.

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Conclusion (Final Moments)

• [34:53-35:39] Adam thanks MJ for appearing, referencing their phone conversation and shared appreciation for underground media figures like Mike David (Red Bar). The episode winds down with light chitchat about airport runs and show logistics.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode is a must for fans of MJ Lenderman, indie music devotees, and listeners who enjoy sharp, self-aware conversations about making art, grappling with imposter syndrome, and coming of age with (and sometimes in spite of) internet culture. The chemistry between Adam and MJ keeps the tone both funny and revealing—a great showcase of modern music talk podcasting.

Transcript

[MJ Lenderman]

All right, quiet. Let's go for it.

[Guest Performer / Singer]

How you gonna make your way in the world when you weren't cut out for working? And your fingers are slender and frail? How you gonna get around in this sleazy bedroom town if you don' Come put yourself up for sale? Where you gonna go with your scars and your miracles? Who's gonna know who you are? Drugs and wine and flattering light? You must try again till you get it right. Maybe you'll end up with someone different. All these people with no home to go home to. They'd all love to spend the night with you. Maybe I would too. Tell me how you gonna make your way in the world when you weren't cut out for? And you just can't concentrate? And you always show up late? You said you were an actor. Well, I believe you are. But I thought you would be a star. So I drank up all with these funnies in this Hollywood bar? With these friends of mine in this Hollywood bar? Loneliness and frustration you and I have both calmed down with an acute case. But when the lights came up at 2 and I caught a glimpse of you and your face looked like something death brought with them in a suitcase. Oh, your pretty face look so wasted. Another pretty face. French inhaler stamped and melder. So long, Norman. So long.

[MJ Lenderman]

Woo.

[Adam Friedland]

Welcome to a very special episode of the Adam Freeland Show. Guys, it's me, Adam. Real quick before we jump in. Low Ticket Warning, February 19th through the 21st. Helium Comedy Club, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I will be there. In addition, I'll be in Portland next month, March 27th to the 29th, and Los Angeles, May 9th. They added a second show at the Regent Theater. There's a link in the description for tickets. And as you have seen already, my guest this week is singer, songwriter MJ Linderman. Give it up for him. Guys, MJ actually performed two songs for us in the studio. And the full performance will be released on Friday, February. Friday the 13th. What are we doing? That's what I wrote in here. Oh, you already wrote this? Way to tick Friday the 13th scream at top of the lungs. So. No, I'm just kidding. It's not scary. We're gonna be releasing more live performances with great musicians. We've recorded a couple of them already. How many, Thomas? Two. Three. Three others. Some of them will be longer episodes of the Adam Friedland Show. Some of them will be shorter. Just performances and then five minute interviews. Guys, it's gonna be great. It's Taps Unplugged. Look at the fucking logo. It's Taps Unplugged for the full MJ Lenderman performance. Stick around. Friday the 13th. It's not scary. It's coming out. And there are more exciting guests to come. We had a wrap. We had. We had a wrap on Friday.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. So, guys, please enjoy my interview with MJ Letterman.

[MJ Lenderman]

It's really good.

[Adam Friedland]

He looks like a young David Letterman. All right, guys. I don't like. I make all the guests do walk outs, and it's actually very. I don't like it. Oh, Zach, thank you. Can you guys get this stuff out of here?

[MJ Lenderman]

Hi.

[Adam Friedland]

What up, twin? That was a great performance. Give it up for Jake.

[MJ Lenderman]

Guys,

[Adam Friedland]

when we've had rappers on the show, I get Don Hooley for them. And I wanted to pay tribute.

[MJ Lenderman]

Thank you.

[Adam Friedland]

This is the most expensive one.

[MJ Lenderman]

Just so you know, I don't know how to open this.

[Adam Friedland]

What do you mean you don't know how to open it?

[MJ Lenderman]

I don't know. I feel like there's probably some sort of.

[Adam Friedland]

You're not a rapper, obviously. Have you chilled with rappers since you just.

[MJ Lenderman]

My middle school basketball coach, Roland Green.

[Adam Friedland]

Rolling Green.

[MJ Lenderman]

I made beats for him.

[Adam Friedland]

He made beats for. Wait, did you have to call him Coach Rolling Green?

[MJ Lenderman]

No, he had a normal name as a coach.

[Adam Friedland]

What was it?

[MJ Lenderman]

Coach Scott.

[Adam Friedland]

That's pretty cool.

[MJ Lenderman]

Here you go.

[Adam Friedland]

Tribute to you. Thank you. Welcome to the show. We had the other young buck in the studio. He watched you.

[MJ Lenderman]

Who'd that be?

[Adam Friedland]

Cameron. Dude. Dude, you said he was taller than you. He's literally one inch taller than you.

[MJ Lenderman]

No, he's not. He's like two feet taller than me.

[Adam Friedland]

What are you talking about? Oh, this is like.

[MJ Lenderman]

I was standing up here, dude.

[Adam Friedland]

When we saw the Young Bucks, and then we saw. We saw Unk. My friend Riley, and it was like I was at a dog park and you guys were all smelling each other's butts. They're all peeing in different corners. Yeah, it was definitely like. It was like the Don't Look Back Donovan, Bob Dylan battle. You see that, right? Of course.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. I'm forgetting, though.

[Adam Friedland]

Bob is like. Donovan's, like, playing a really beautiful song. You can just see him, like, not, like, he just wants to, like, defeat. He wants to destroy. And he's like. He's. He's, like, antsy, and then he takes the guitar.

[MJ Lenderman]

That's why Cameron just left.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, yeah. You just. You just. You just don't look back to him. Yeah. And then he peed in the corner.

[MJ Lenderman]

They're like,

[Adam Friedland]

have you met any of your Goats yet since you've become a rocker.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, I mean, the Truckers, those.

[Adam Friedland]

That was your favorite band growing up.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. Dinosaur Jr. Oh, sick.

[Adam Friedland]

Jay Riley. Riley's Boys with them too. Give it up for Riley. You want a tour with them? No.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Long time ago.

[MJ Lenderman]

All right,

[Adam Friedland]

all right. It's cool that kids are in bands again. We are. We had a millennial conversation with all the millennials and we're like, I think that there's never gonna be another band. And now you guys are all like. I mean, it's really nice that, like, his, like, kneel again and stuff.

[MJ Lenderman]

Kids like Neil, like you. Oh, yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Baby bros like Neil.

[MJ Lenderman]

I was like, he's pretty old, but

[Adam Friedland]

you don't like Neil.

[MJ Lenderman]

I love you. No, no. I have the Ipod archives app on my phone.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, cuz he's off of Spotify because Joe Rogan, he's back on Spotify.

[MJ Lenderman]

I bought it while he was off of Spotify. And then. And then he went back on.

[Adam Friedland]

He made peace with.

[MJ Lenderman]

I'm a little mad at him for that, but.

[Adam Friedland]

How much was the archives app?

[MJ Lenderman]

I don't remember. $10 a year, maybe?

[Adam Friedland]

I mean, $10 a year.

[MJ Lenderman]

Maybe a month.

[Adam Friedland]

A month?

[MJ Lenderman]

That's like Netflix money. No, I think it's a year.

[Adam Friedland]

It was really nice of him that he became an American citizen so he could vote for Bernie. I thought that was a really sweet thing of him. I don't remember if you. I don't know if you know that. I don't know if you're old enough to know who Bernie is. You read for president in 2020 and 2016. He's this Jewish guy.

[MJ Lenderman]

Bernie. Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, you know, you're an old soul.

[MJ Lenderman]

Bernie Sanders. Yeah. Bernie Sanders.

[Adam Friedland]

You grew up Catholic in North. In Asheville, North Cashville, North Carolina. Yeah.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

You were altar boy. What did you have to do for that? You had to, like, swing the incense?

[MJ Lenderman]

Well, you start as the.

[Adam Friedland]

You step back in the game.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

An acolyte, I think.

[MJ Lenderman]

Acolyte? No, book bearer is the first one. You bring the books up to the priest.

[Adam Friedland]

And that's a little boy.

[MJ Lenderman]

That's the young buck, young bull. And then you got the acolyte. That's big bro. And then the cross bearer.

[Adam Friedland]

That's when you worked your way up to cross.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, I was one of the best altar servers of all time.

[Adam Friedland]

You didn't drop that shit once.

[MJ Lenderman]

No, but I did put it on sideways.

[Adam Friedland]

You put the cross upside down.

[MJ Lenderman]

Sideways.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, okay.

[MJ Lenderman]

This is like a square base. And I put it down and then I went sat down. The cross was facing me.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, my God.

[MJ Lenderman]

You watch Club Shannon?

[Adam Friedland]

Club Shay Shay?

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

This is Club Shay Shay. We're drinking yak right now. Are you? This is going to be like the Katt Williams episode.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

You're going to tell us about all the freak offs you've been to.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. You're going to tell us about.

[Adam Friedland]

Did they make you put on the dress,

[MJ Lenderman]

Adam?

[Adam Friedland]

I'm sorry, dude. There have been allegations that Jay Maiskis from Dinosaur junior has been putting boys like you undress.

[MJ Lenderman]

I don't think we should be talking about that publicly.

[Adam Friedland]

Are you hyped that there's American Pope?

[MJ Lenderman]

An American Pope? Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

What are you talking. I'm not even Catholic. I'm hyped on it. It's good for America, dude.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, I think it's more exciting that he's from Chicago for some reason. Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Sufjan. Yeah. Do you think he's ever listened to Chief Keef?

[MJ Lenderman]

The Pope?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, the Pope.

[MJ Lenderman]

Certainly. Most certainly not. I mean, maybe not intentionally, but definitely out of a car he's been like,

[Adam Friedland]

yeah, what is this crap? No, the Pope is cool. We like him. What's his.

[MJ Lenderman]

Leo?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. What is his old name, though?

[MJ Lenderman]

Chris.

[Adam Friedland]

Chris.

[MJ Lenderman]

I don't know.

[Adam Friedland]

You changed your name to mj?

[MJ Lenderman]

No.

[Adam Friedland]

Your name's Jake.

[MJ Lenderman]

My middle name's Jacob.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, what, you were afraid of your first name? Mohammed. Sorry. It's the most common name in the world.

[MJ Lenderman]

Mark.

[Adam Friedland]

Mark.

[MJ Lenderman]

Mark Jacob.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, that's kind of fire.

[MJ Lenderman]

But yeah, when I started releasing music on the Internet when I was in high school, I thought Jake just didn't sound good. Yeah, sounded like a jock.

[Adam Friedland]

Jake Linderman.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

No, it sounds like a kid that definitely has like one thing on the wall and it's a Pulp Fiction poster.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, that's my works at Goldman.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

And he's doing like, he's doing Vyvanse and watching NFL Reddit Zone. Yeah, That's a Jake Lenderman look.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

I don't know. You think Sinead o' Connor would have been a good Pope though? She was mad at the Pope.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, I think she was. She's probably mad at the right things.

[Adam Friedland]

It was child abuse or abortion either or something like that. Have you played in Ireland yet? Yeah, it's the best, best country.

[MJ Lenderman]

I was telling a story on stage when we played in Ireland and I was talking about the plane ride over there and I said I was sitting around a bunch of slags. I didn't know what that meant. It's sluts.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, it means hose.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. I thought it meant something else.

[Adam Friedland]

What did you think it meant?

[MJ Lenderman]

Just like a bunch of. You thought it was a racial slur? No.

[Adam Friedland]

What do you think? Slag.

[MJ Lenderman]

I thought it was like, just like.

[Adam Friedland]

Like a lazy person.

[MJ Lenderman]

Hooligans or, you know, like. Oh, no, no.

[Adam Friedland]

Cause these guys were like, that's geezers.

[MJ Lenderman]

They were drinking at like 10am it was a bunch of kids. They were going from Manchester to Ireland. And my bass player was asleep on the plane. And one of them was just like. Smacked him in the head on the

[Adam Friedland]

plane as a bit.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, he said, you good, man.

[Adam Friedland]

He's smack. Because he was sleeping.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. Cause he was asleep on a plane.

[Adam Friedland]

He doesn't know what his sleep is.

[MJ Lenderman]

And this dude was drunk as hell.

[Adam Friedland]

Your great grandfather was a jazz guy?

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Was it? You never met Unk?

[MJ Lenderman]

No, that's OG OG we never met, though. He passed away before I was born.

[Adam Friedland]

Was he like. Like, living hard kind of jazz guy? He was like, heron kind of style. No. Yeah, he played for that with the drums guy. What's his name?

[MJ Lenderman]

Gene Krupa. Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

It's cool that you could be a band leader and do drums.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Like, dude, come on, dude. Is this bad Attitude Rock? Before. Before we. We hit play, he was like, oh, my God, I'm so excited to do this. You were like, talking mile a minute. And then we hit play. You're like, I'm fucking. Fuck the B2s.

[MJ Lenderman]

I got the red light fever.

[Adam Friedland]

No, I know. That's why you want this. This, right?

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. Loosen me up.

[Adam Friedland]

We'll loosen you up. I don't know. Like, it sounds to me like you grew up in a family where, like, they were very supportive. Did they go to gigs?

[MJ Lenderman]

Our sets wouldn't start till, like, 11pm because we're playing.

[Adam Friedland]

You're playing, like, after your mom's bedtime. Yeah.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. But they were always very cool. Like, they never. They never. They never told me not to play a show or something.

[Adam Friedland]

Did your mom criticize, like, what you're wearing? She's like, you could wear something a little nicer. That's what my mom said to me about stand up.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. I remember going to school one morning. She was like, you look like you just got your hair wet.

[Adam Friedland]

They don't know that. That's cool.

[MJ Lenderman]

I was like, yeah, I just took a shower.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, she's an idiot, your mom.

[MJ Lenderman]

No, your mom's an idiot. She wants the best for.

[Adam Friedland]

Are you gonna be one that keeps it real? You're gonna be a North Carolina boy for life or.

[MJ Lenderman]

I think so.

[Adam Friedland]

No. You saw my. I was wearing that coat last night.

[MJ Lenderman]

You were like, I did see the coat. That was tempting.

[Adam Friedland]

We went. We got dinner last night, and I had a really nice coat, like you kept telling me.

[MJ Lenderman]

I was thinking about it on the drive over here. I was like, the way you were telling me, like, you gotta get. You gotta get another coat. I was like. I was. I was getting.

[Adam Friedland]

Criticizing your coat.

[MJ Lenderman]

My coat's not.

[Adam Friedland]

No, I was saying, you gotta move to New York and get a coat. Like a Do Draper style coat. But that's during, like, your troubled period after the divorce. That's your.

[MJ Lenderman]

I gotta get married first.

[Adam Friedland]

You gotta get them. You're gonna have a motorcycle phase.

[MJ Lenderman]

You're gonna have all motorcycle.

[Adam Friedland]

You're gonna have a Christian phase again. Yeah.

[MJ Lenderman]

You're gonna go back to Christ.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. Then you're gonna have a reggae phase, infidel style.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

You'll make a song called Heil Hitler and then you'll. No, I'm just kidding. Just kidding. I really.

[MJ Lenderman]

Somebody. Somebody just did that, though.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, but, like, that's a phase. I've read. When I. When that song came out, I was like, it's this phase, all right, that this will wear off.

[MJ Lenderman]

Everybody was like, the song's actually good.

[Adam Friedland]

Did you see Kanye the song?

[MJ Lenderman]

No.

[Adam Friedland]

The Suck my cousin's dick was really good, but he should have done it. He should. Wait, can I be really. He should have done it the other way, right? Reverse, I think he should have done HH and then everyone's like, fuck, this guy's an asshole. And then followed it up with Suck my cousin's dick. And then that would have really said it over the. Over the top.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. And then. Because that kind of wraps everything up and explains maybe some trauma that he's doing.

[Adam Friedland]

I mean, it's clear that he's having, like, a psychotic break. Right. Like, I don't think that Kanye was convincing anyone to either HH or suck their cousin's dicks. No, I don't think that that was winning message. I think it just seemed like a guy was having a tough time. For me, I used to get a cd, right? Like, at the mall, and I'd listen for like a month. Right. And then for you guys, you had Spotify, probably you could, like, listen to any song. And I wonder if that, like. Because to me, it's like, that either makes music way better because you could listen to anything, or it makes it like. Like the kids don't have as much of a focus or something?

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, I think focus is totally gone. But I'm thankful that I had the resources to listen to whatever I wanted to at any time.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, we used to have to, like, burn each other's CDs.

[MJ Lenderman]

I burned some CDs. Yeah, I burned me and my dad a mix for when we were going to basketball tournaments.

[Adam Friedland]

Dude, you're obsessed with your dad.

[MJ Lenderman]

Dude, I put this Eminem song on there.

[Adam Friedland]

Which track?

[MJ Lenderman]

The one from Relapse with, like, the Aerosmith sample.

[Adam Friedland]

Can you go bar for bar? No on that. You're a big M fan?

[MJ Lenderman]

I was. I was the Eminem kid in school.

[Adam Friedland]

Really? I was awesome.

[MJ Lenderman]

He was my ipod background.

[Adam Friedland]

Dude. What. What was your. What was your first Eminem album?

[MJ Lenderman]

I think when. When Not Afraid came out, that was. That was like. That was my. Yeah, I knew who he was, but. And then I got, like. I dug deep and then I heard, like, song like Kim on Marshall Mathers lp and I was like, this is terrifying.

[Adam Friedland]

I was listening to that in six, like, grade same.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, about.

[Adam Friedland]

I was listening to a song about a man killing his wife and putting her in his trunk.

[MJ Lenderman]

I was just so scared of it, but it was like, got obsessed.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that comedy music is good or bad? Do you think funny songs are good?

[MJ Lenderman]

I think so.

[Adam Friedland]

Because in the comedy community, it's looked down upon. But I happen to love funny songs.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. It's weird. I don't think anybody really knows what to do with it. It's like, not for me. It's.

[Adam Friedland]

Listen to it.

[MJ Lenderman]

People like music that uses humor, but they don't like it the other way around.

[Adam Friedland]

Your lyrics have humor in them, would

[MJ Lenderman]

you say hopefully to me? Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Do you feel like you've gotten better at writing the lyrics since you've. I mean, you've done four full albums already.

[MJ Lenderman]

The first song I ever wrote was called Nightmare Sick.

[Adam Friedland]

What was it about?

[MJ Lenderman]

I guess it was about a nightmare I had.

[Adam Friedland]

Sick.

[MJ Lenderman]

But my guitar teacher hated it. I showed it to him, he ripped it to shreds.

[Adam Friedland]

Really?

[MJ Lenderman]

He's like, this doesn't make any sense.

[Adam Friedland]

Isn't it embarrassing that you wrote that? How old were you when you wrote nightmare?

[MJ Lenderman]

14.

[Adam Friedland]

And Metallica's still writing those kind of songs, right?

[MJ Lenderman]

About, like, they're riffing.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[MJ Lenderman]

They have a lot of money.

[Adam Friedland]

When do you feel like you kind of like, popped for the first time? Was that in the last, like, three years?

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Like, what was a moment where you're like, oh, shit, it's Going good. Oh, yeah.

[MJ Lenderman]

I mean, that keeps happening in a way that's like, what was the moment

[Adam Friedland]

where you realized people knew who you were? And like, how did you deal with that? Because it's obviously like stressful situation during, like, Covid.

[MJ Lenderman]

People were talking about online a lot. Yeah. And once we started playing shows again, the crowds were bigger, I guess. And then. But especially like my record, both songs came out in April 22.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[MJ Lenderman]

And then by the end of the. It got put on a bunch of lists and then. And then I started noticing, like, a lot of talk about it, like, and

[Adam Friedland]

now you have to put up go to GQ man of the year.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. But, yeah, that was weird. I stopped using socials, but I do don't look. I lurk on Twitter just for Fuentes clips. Yeah. YouTube shorts.

[Adam Friedland]

YouTube shorts is fun.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

My Instagram reels algorithm is the only safe place for me on the Internet. It's the only place where it's not scary. Twitter, My Twitter algo has gone haywire.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, it's scary. Not good.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, there was like. There was like, killings for a while and then. So. But shorts is still just funny. Or reels. Reels is funny. It's still people saying things the wrong way. It's still people falling over the Internet used to be funny.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Now it's scary. Now it's just like slur MJ Linderman song Nick.

[MJ Lenderman]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

I'm not saying those are all the same kind of thing.

[MJ Lenderman]

I'm just saying it's just this is what people are talking about is why

[Adam Friedland]

people are talking about.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's. It's made a huge difference. So to not be looking at that as. As much.

[Adam Friedland]

I mean, it just doesn't matter, dude. I mean, at the end of the day, you just want to make tracks, right?

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, yeah. It's like. And that. That just gets in the way. It's a distraction.

[Adam Friedland]

It doesn't matter even what people, like, the people think.

[MJ Lenderman]

Really.

[Adam Friedland]

You just like, as long as, like, have you ever felt good after, like. Like finishing a song?

[MJ Lenderman]

Every time it feels awesome to finish a song. And then sometimes within the next couple days, like, oh, it wasn't that good.

[Adam Friedland]

But right. Like, you look. I feel like everything I've ever done, I look back on it. I'm like, I would change that. I would change that. I would change that. Right?

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, but it's. I think it's cooler. Just move forward and you have to

[Adam Friedland]

just forget about it.

[MJ Lenderman]

Forget it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

The Worst part is, like, you get really excited at the beginning and you're like, this is gonna be awesome. And then you try it. You're like, I am a fucking loser. I have no talent. You fight against it and you just draw. You. You just end the project and you put it out. You forget about it. It's the best way to work, honestly. You figuring that out now is huge.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. I mean, there's. There's plenty of things that I've released that I don't love, but it's. It's cooler to just move forward, look better every time.

[Adam Friedland]

You get better every time, right?

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. Yeah. If you're just trapped up, super concerned with only putting out things that are genius, then you'll never put anything out.

[Adam Friedland]

Well, also, you suck too.

[MJ Lenderman]

And you suck.

[Adam Friedland]

You suck at music. If anyone finishes something and they're like, this is amazing, then they suck. No one. Like, the only way you get what I found is, like, in the middle stage, right? With the stage from, like, this is so exciting, to whatever the fuck, just. Just put it out. The middle stage is like the gym. That's like the reps, they hate. It's the reps, right? It's like, I hate myself. I hate the song. I suck. But, like, fighting through it is like kind of the part where you get better.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

That's putting up shots.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, putting up some shots. A little bit of discipline, Reading some books maybe.

[Adam Friedland]

What's your three point percentage? Empty gym?

[MJ Lenderman]

50.

[Adam Friedland]

50? Dude, isn't it crazy that league is like, if they're empty gym, it's kind of like 80. They're so good at basketball.

[MJ Lenderman]

My biggest basketball game I ever played. Yeah. Had 10 threes.

[Adam Friedland]

10 threes? You were a sniper.

[MJ Lenderman]

I was a sniper, dude.

[Adam Friedland]

Really? What grade was that?

[MJ Lenderman]

Seventh.

[Adam Friedland]

Seventh grade. Ten threes. So you were strong enough not to, like, from your chest? You had form.

[MJ Lenderman]

I had form, dude.

[Adam Friedland]

Have you ever linked with Steph? He's North Carolina.

[MJ Lenderman]

Oh, yeah. He went to Davidson.

[Adam Friedland]

Davidson.

[MJ Lenderman]

He loves Paramore. I just learned.

[Adam Friedland]

Dude, have you seen that clip of him at the fucking Benson Boone concert wearing the. Fucking. Wearing the hat?

[MJ Lenderman]

No.

[Adam Friedland]

I have a theory on the NBA, which is the fact that LeBron is so bad at any type of, like, trying to be cool thing has completely, like, shielded Steph from any type of, like, scrutiny. Like, Steph has been like, a genius player in an era where there was another genius player and he's been protected.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. All their energy is put into being good at basketball. They don't have any skills at anything else.

[Adam Friedland]

I just know that LeBron's, like, team is like, we will be doing creative on this, and it's always just a fucking brick. It's like the. The Hennessy thing you saw, right, Was

[MJ Lenderman]

that when he said he was gonna make an announcement? Yeah. Everybody thought he was gonna retire.

[Adam Friedland]

And it was on October 7th. It said, I'm making an announcement. October 7th, 2025. And it was an ad for Hennessy. Did the girls leave? Thank God. Okay. Okay. Dude, we've never had so many girls in here before.

[MJ Lenderman]

I know. Yeah, Zach brought them all.

[Adam Friedland]

The last girl here was Mia Khalifa. All right. I was telling you last night, you should get in an indie rock pickup game. I thought you were dapping me.

[MJ Lenderman]

Oh, yeah, we can dap later.

[Adam Friedland]

I wonder who would be in the indie rock pickup game. Thurston Moore.

[MJ Lenderman]

He's tall as fuck.

[Adam Friedland]

He's tall as fuck.

[MJ Lenderman]

He's probably not very good, though.

[Adam Friedland]

No, he's not.

[MJ Lenderman]

He seems like a clumsy.

[Adam Friedland]

He's definitely trash at all.

[MJ Lenderman]

There's a lot of tall guys out there.

[Adam Friedland]

You're obsessed with other guys. Heights that are. No, you said that Cameron was way taller than you. He's one inch taller than you.

[MJ Lenderman]

Don't think he's taller than you're.

[Adam Friedland]

Ready, six three?

[MJ Lenderman]

Dude, I'm not six three.

[Adam Friedland]

What are you, six two?

[MJ Lenderman]

I don't know. My license says I'm five eleven.

[Adam Friedland]

My license says I'm six three. Because I'm trying to impress bouncers. Just look at this. Yeah, tracking expenses can make one feel bad about past spending. It happens to me all the time. But Monarch keeps you focused on planning ahead and hitting real financial milestones. Monarch gives you a complete picture. Budgets, debt, payoff timelines, savings goals, net worth. So you can make decisions that actually move the needle. Unlike most other personal finance apps, Monarch is made to make you proactive, not reactive. And that's what I've been talking to you guys at the office about. Proactive. Monarch helped users save over $200 per month on average after joining. Eight out of 10 members feel more in control of their finances with monarch. And eight out of 10 members say monarch gives them a clear picture of where their money's going. I wonder if it's the same 8. So set yourself up for financial success in 2026 with Monarch, the all in one tool that makes proactive money management simple all year long. Use the code tafsonarch.com for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first [e-mail] code tafs and we thank Monarch sincerely for sponsoring this episode. You took a chance on a bright eyed kid from Las Vegas, Nevada. No one saw any potential in me. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all in one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out or scaling your business, Squarespace gives you everything you need to claim your domain, showcase your offerings with a professional website, grow your brand and get paid all in one place. You know, when I hear a new rap song, I often google the name of the rapper and I check out their website and if they don't have one, that's where I'm done listening. Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place. From consultations to events and experiences. Showcase your offerings with customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business. Get paid on time with professional on brand invoices and online payments on brand invoices are important. Plus streamline your workflow with built in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools. Get discovered fast with integrated Squarespace SEO tools. Every website is optimized to be indexed with meta descriptions and auto generated sitemap and more. Squarespace makes it easy to showcase your expertise and engage clients with video content on your website, Upload and organize your videos, create stunning video libraries and even monetize your content by adding a paywall. Perfect for online courses, exclusive tutorials and premium workshops. Make smarter business decisions with Squarespace. Intuitive built in analytics tools. Review website traffic, learn where to focus engagement and track revenue from bookings, invoices or product sales. All from one place. Go to squarespace.com tafs for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code TAFS to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com TAFS for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code TAFs to get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Do girls try to get with you because you're a rock star? No.

[MJ Lenderman]

I don't know. I stay at home a lot.

[Adam Friedland]

You stay at home? Are you scared of girls? Is it kind of like a hard day's night?

[MJ Lenderman]

I have three sister. My life is ruled by women.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, yeah.

[MJ Lenderman]

They stress you out sometimes, but.

[Adam Friedland]

And they tell you you can't get any girlfriends.

[MJ Lenderman]

They say I can't have girlfriends.

[Adam Friedland]

I wonder what it's like.

[MJ Lenderman]

I mean like hard hat adding a fourth to the fold.

[Adam Friedland]

Zach Our friend over here, he told me that girls learned the words to his songs at his gig.

[MJ Lenderman]

Oh, Zach, that's not a fire.

[Adam Friedland]

Was there a moment where you realized that the kids knew the words?

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, because they're so fucking loud, like, there. Sometimes they want. They want to be heard. And it's like I'm trying to sing a song, and I start forgetting the words because I'm like.

[Adam Friedland]

Because it's.

[MJ Lenderman]

They're distracting me.

[Adam Friedland]

They're being lame for knowing the words.

[MJ Lenderman]

It's cool that people are that committed. Are they annoying sometimes?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, they're fucking. Yeah. What's the most annoying?

[MJ Lenderman]

This guy was in. He was at, like, three shows in a row, and he kept telling me to take my shoes off. He said, let me see those feet.

[Adam Friedland]

No. Maybe he was from the website Wiki Feet, though.

[MJ Lenderman]

He's trying to snap some photos. Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

He's like, I'm trying. I'm a thorough guy. I need the Lenderman's feet.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. After night three of doing that, I was like, who is saying this? And I look at the guy, he's wearing every piece of merch that I

[Adam Friedland]

have to the show. Yeah, that's a. That is the worst.

[MJ Lenderman]

And then. And then he. And then I. Once I called him out, he got embarrassed.

[Adam Friedland]

What did you say to make him feel embarrassed?

[MJ Lenderman]

Stop it.

[Adam Friedland]

Off from the stage.

[MJ Lenderman]

Off mic. I was being nice.

[Adam Friedland]

Did you kick him in the head with your shoe, Josh.

[MJ Lenderman]

Homey style. Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

You're like, I love these shoes.

[MJ Lenderman]

No.

[Adam Friedland]

So what relationship did Covid have to your career? Like, you were touring, and then it cut it out.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. But then I was, like, working at an ice cream store. So through working there, I got unemployment and I started making more money than I ever made in my life.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. No, it happened a lot of friends.

[MJ Lenderman]

It was the most prolific period of time for me because we had a really, really fortunate living situation, too. You had a nice place over by the Creekside Taphouse that your boy works at.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, yeah, my boy's brother. I didn't know he had a brother.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

So. So you guys wrote a ton of music.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. It was, like, the only. It was a weird, like, view of adulthood because I turned 21 right before that happened, and then. And then now I have all this free time and more money than I've ever had. Yeah. And just time to actually focus on making stuff. And it was a pretty prolific time. But then did you feel like you got better? Definitely within that time. That's the best I'd felt about making things. But Once touring came back, I started being like, what am I gonna have, you know, Another break, two years off again.

[Adam Friedland]

Dude, Wouldn't it be nice? Dude? Yeah, Wuhan, dude. I mean, I feel like I would do it better this time. It sounds like you did it great.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. I mean, for the parts of it I was painting. Yeah, I painted a lot, too.

[Adam Friedland]

I painted.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

How was your painting?

[MJ Lenderman]

It was fine. It was nice for the brain, though. I think I was getting ideas while I was painting.

[Adam Friedland]

I would listen to. I had an archive of Howard Stern.

[MJ Lenderman]

I got obsessed with Howard Stern. Lint Bizkit guitar auditions. And Beetlejuice comes in completely naked. He's like, this is my guitar right here.

[Adam Friedland]

We were talking yesterday about Beetlejuice, the Obama phone call where Beetlejuice says he does like Obama. They get some guy calls it as Obama. Do you have goals in being, like, a musician? Is there, like, a thing that, like, you're like, next time, I'm gonna do this. What keeps you, like, motivated?

[MJ Lenderman]

Just writing stuff, I guess.

[Adam Friedland]

You want to get better?

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah, I want to get better. The happiest I am is when I make music. But I've achieved all of my goals, really. I just have to make new ones, I guess. But maybe they're unrelated to music.

[Adam Friedland]

I think you just need to just keep making tracks. The best guys are the guys that catch.

[MJ Lenderman]

Exactly. I just want to keep making music that I'm happy about. I don't want to lose. I think it's easy to get successful and then start making bad music.

[Adam Friedland]

What is, like, the currency that matters the most? Is it, like, approval of your peers? Is it, like.

[MJ Lenderman]

That does mean a lot to me.

[Adam Friedland]

The comedian says, good set that I like. I'm like, that feels good.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. That means a lot to me. My own validation from myself.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, but you hate all your stuff, right?

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah.

[Guest Performer / Singer]

Yeah.

[MJ Lenderman]

I think that's why you're good. It definitely means more with. With peers that I respect.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. With someone is ahead, and they know, because the guys that. The guys that are telling you to take your. Your shoes off, it's like, why don't you make a fucking track, dude?

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm like.

[Adam Friedland]

And that guy.

[MJ Lenderman]

What does it say about me that this guy worships my music?

[Adam Friedland]

And that guy was Brian Eno. That guy was. I. I really. I'm a big fan. I really appreciate you coming on.

[MJ Lenderman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

You have to do stuff like this, and you. It's. It's really.

[MJ Lenderman]

I'm not very practiced. I'm sorry.

[Adam Friedland]

No, it sucks for you. You shouldn't have to.

[MJ Lenderman]

To do these things. Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Who's your.

[MJ Lenderman]

Well, this is one that I was. I was excited for because.

[Adam Friedland]

I know. But you're like. You like the show, so you're like, adam's gonna be hating on my ass.

[MJ Lenderman]

No, I talked to you on the phone before this.

[Adam Friedland]

We talked for an hour on the

[MJ Lenderman]

phone and then more about.

[Adam Friedland]

What are we talking about? I forgot what we talked about. Oh, yeah, we talked about Red Bar.

[MJ Lenderman]

He's a big fan. Big fan.

[Adam Friedland]

Shout out to Mike David. Thank you, MJ Landerman, everyone. Thanks for coming on.

[Guest Performer / Singer]

Bye.

[MJ Lenderman]

Okay.

[Adam Friedland]

You have to go to the airport?

[MJ Lenderman]

I guess so.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.