SEAN AVERY Talks NHL Fights, Trash Talk, Christopher Nolan

Summary

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The Adam Friedland Show

Episode Title: SEAN AVERY Talks NHL Fights, Trash Talk, Christopher Nolan
Release Date: March 20, 2026
Guest: Sean Avery (Former NHL Player, Author, Actor)

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid, wildly entertaining conversation between Adam Friedland and former NHL agitator Sean Avery. The pair cover everything from the brutal culture and psychological tactics of hockey, to Avery's evolution from infamous on-ice instigator to creative (romance novelist, actor in Christopher Nolan films), and the personal philosophies that guided him through and after his career. With trademark irreverence, the conversation flows between laugh-out-loud locker room stories, reflections on fighting, trash talk, masculinity, and the search for new forms of meaning after professional sports.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Introduction and Sean Avery’s Profile

[01:08] – [03:37]

• Adam introduces Sean Avery, highlighting his reputation as the NHL’s "wind-up" guy—a player whose role was to get under the skin of star opponents and change the mental flow of the game.
• Avery explains:

  "Think about it as like an organized crime family... the Godfather looks down at me... It always came from me. Cause I was uncontrollable." (Sean Avery, 03:37)

• Locker room "fines pools" and the unwritten code for targeting notorious opponents, alongside wild stories of junior league origins.
• "Matt Cook married the mom he lodged with during junior hockey," sparking incredulous laughter.

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2. Inside the Hockey Ecosystem: Culture, Nationality, and Locker Room Dynamics

[07:06] – [12:11]

• Stereotypes and wild personas:
  • Russians: "New money, baby. So fun."
  • Swedes: "Handsome legends."
  • Finns: "The worst drinkers ever. Dumb monsters."
• Americans, regional Canadian rivalries, and the differences between junior leaguers and college players.
• Discovering Jewish Americans only upon arriving in Detroit:

  "I didn’t meet a Jew until I came to America. Now all my closest friends are from there." (Avery, 11:26)

• Locker room advice from OGs like Shanahan and Chelios, e.g. “Never take a yellow taxi and always have more than $400 in your pocket.” (Avery, 18:18)

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3. Wrestling with the On-Ice Role: Violence, Trash Talk, and Psychology

[21:33] – [32:59]

• The science behind fighting:

  "I fought to not get hit, to make it, to sell the fight, not hurt my hand, and to make sure I landed on top." (Avery, 37:27)

• Trash talk as psychological warfare, supported by dossiers of personal info for maximal impact:

  “I had a dossier. I would line up with so and so... I know that his sister Sarah works at the Keg in Toronto... I got feelers out.” (Avery, 35:43)

• The infamous "Avery Rule" moment: devising new ways to disrupt (see Avery Rule segment below).

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4. Life Off the Ice: Creativity and Transformation

[22:56], [23:39] – [28:29], [38:44]

• Newfound life as a romance novelist:
  • Avery reads the opening of his hit book Summer Skate, a "best-selling hockey romance" (see Notable Moments below).
• Transition to acting:
  • Landing roles in three Christopher Nolan films: Tenet, Oppenheimer, and Odyssey.
  • On Nolan’s directing style:

    "He’s firing on a different wavelength... sees everything happen before it happens... hires the best people and lets them paint inside structure." (Avery, 80:59)

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5. Hockey’s Evolving Culture: Trash Talk, "Heel" Roles, and Representation

[42:20] – [48:43], [67:33] – [67:53]

• Avery as an early advocate for gay rights and diversity in hockey:

  "I was the first professional athlete to really, on the record, in my Ranger jersey." (Avery, 43:13)

• Consciously played the "heel" (villain/provocateur), drawing inspiration from both classic NHL agitators and pro wrestling archetypes.
• Avery on agitating: "If you're gonna do the job, be the best at it and be prepared."
• His profile would be even more valuable in the 2025 NHL, which now covets agitators and personalities.

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6. The "Avery Rule": Hockey Infamy and the Art of the Loophole

[49:40] – [58:15]

• Adam excitedly dissects Avery’s most notorious moment: standing in front of goalie Martin Brodeur, turning his back to the play to screen/wave his hands in Brodeur’s face, which immediately led to an NHL rule change.

  "I just said, if I put my hand in front of his face... I've solved the riddle of 100 years of this game." (Avery, 53:57)

• NHL changed the rules overnight—the only time a mid-season rule has been implemented.

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7. Aftermath of Pro Sports and the Search for Meaning

[73:08] – [77:48]

• Burnout, CTE, and the emotional toll of being the league "villain."
• Strategies for post-career transitions:
  • Martial arts ("jiu jitsu slowed me down—if I’d started earlier, I’d have won multiple Stanley Cups")
  • The struggle with time and identity after leaving the game:

    "Time is your enemy when you stop playing." (Avery, 74:54)

• The need for darkness and struggle to be productive or find meaning outside the cauldron of pro sport violence.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On psychological warfare:

  "I had a dossier... everywhere. If you're gonna do that job, then, like, be the best at it and be prepared." (Avery, 35:04–36:09)

• On transitioning from fighting to martial arts:

  "Now I don’t want to fight ever... I want to embrace you and choke the air out of you. Before, I wanted to use my fists." (Avery, 31:07)

• On playing the heel:

  "I was so deep in the troll game... I was the alt. I was fucking with them." (Avery, 42:54–43:01)

• "Avery Rule" moment:

  "I just went directly in front of him... if I put my hand in front of his face... I've just solved the riddle..." (Avery, 53:57–54:24)

• On Nolan:

  "He’s the Scotty Bowman of movies." (Avery, 81:57)

• On family and trauma:

  "I learned to appreciate family a lot more... at the end of the day meeting there... those are your guys." (Adam & Avery, 47:00–47:40)

• Adam, re: fighting vs. sex:

  "Do you think you've fought more guys or had sex with more girls in your life?" (Adam, 00:01, again at 30:20) Sean: "I did a lot of... and a lot of fighting." (Avery, 30:40)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Start | End | Notes | |--------------------------------------------|---------|---------|------------------------------------------------------------| | Wild openings: Fights vs. sex | 00:01 | 01:08 | Sets irreverent, personal tone | | Sean Avery as agitator/enforcer | 03:37 | 06:22 | "Godfather" analogy; culture of enforcing | | Locker room culture, Russians, stereotypes | 08:40 | 12:11 | Nationality dynamics; Russian, Finnish, Scandinavian vibes | | Trash talk, dossier revelations | 34:40 | 36:09 | "I had a fucking dossier" | | Avery Rule story | 49:40 | 58:15 | Mid-game invention, overnight rule change | | Avery on Nolan, acting career | 78:36 | 81:57 | Working with Nolan, actor philosophy | | Reflections on post-NHL life | 73:08 | 77:48 | Identity, reinvention, risk of darkness |

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Unforgettable Moments

• Avery’s reading from his own hockey romance novel (24:00–26:23):
  Delivered with a mixture of self-parody and pride, he lays out the pulpy, fight-soaked, and tender world he’s created post-hockey.

• Locker room story: rookie wisdom:
  Brendan Shanahan: "Never take a yellow taxi and always have more than $400." (18:18)

• Dissecting the Avery Rule:
  Adam: "You found a loophole. Moment of brilliance. I don’t even think it should be against the rules."

• Avery’s methodical trash talk:

  "I've got people, and everyone wants to provide information and share information." (35:43)

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Tone & Vibe

The episode is raunchy, fast-paced, and full of irreverent humor. Adam and Sean riff on everything—insider hockey, masculinity, the performance of violence, and finding new meaning after a singular career. They toggle between wild locker room tales, philosophical asides, and self-aware jokes about being the villain, always with a sense of camaraderie born of outsider status and creative persistence.

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode is as much a mental brawl as an interview, unspooling the mind of hockey’s most notorious agitator with warmth, candor, and self-deprecation. If you’ve ever wondered what it’s like to survive the world’s toughest team sport or to transition into art and Hollywood from that violence, Sean Avery’s stories, wisdom, and unrivaled trash talk are not to be missed. Whether you care about hockey, the bro-code, or reinvention, this is one of the most revealing, funny, and oddly inspiring interviews in the genre.

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Transcript

[A]

Do you think you've fought more guys or had sex with more girls in your life? Individual.

[B]

That's a wild question.

[A]

I don't know. Just think about it. Or are you not. Are you not a notch on the bedpost kind of guy? I think just, just.

[B]

I mean, I, I. Listen, I. We all had fun.

[A]

We all had fun.

[B]

I did a lot of. And a lot of fighting.

[A]

Yeah. So cool.

[B]

If I could be honest with you. Yes. Y. I wonder.

[A]

I wonder what the number is. I wonder what the number is on the spreadsheet.

[B]

Oh, God. Hey, all.

[A]

Welcome back to the Adam Friedland Show. I'm Adam Friedland. My guest this week is former NHL player Sean Avery. Hockey puck is my favorite. Think I like the way they skate up and down the rink. He's here to promote his new book, Summer Skate, which came out in September of 2025. As always, I'm Adam Friedland signing off. I love Thomas Eisenman.

[B]

No pressure. Friedman, shut the fuck up.

[A]

It's Freed Land. Okay, Anti Semitism, welcome to the stage. Coming up Next, Sean Avery, 13 year veteran of the NHL. Actor, model.

[B]

Oh, fuck.

[A]

Sex man. Jesus. We're off to a hot start.

[B]

First of all, I'm not. I'm not a model and I've never modeled.

[A]

Top model. No, I'm not. I. I modeled once. Yeah, I modeled once. Yeah. For a French brand, the Kooples.

[B]

Oh, I love the Kooples.

[A]

Yeah, I was, I was like, in the store on Mercer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I took a picture in front of it, of course. Yeah, yeah. I don't know why. I think it was some sort of prank. Oh, I don't know. Why did they ask me?

[B]

They used regular people. Like the Gap.

[A]

I would say regular. I say, you know, public, intellectual, celebrity. I've been watching too many highlights.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. I'm like, catching up on NHL from, like, I'd say probably 11th grade. And I'm 38, and now I'm like,

[B]

locked in 11th grade.

[A]

I want to catch our audience up on, like, kind of what your profile was, because it's fascinating to me. And if I was good at fighting and sports and ice skating.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I would be you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Tell me if I'm describing this correctly. Your position was basically to wind up kind of the best player on the other team and make him lose his focus and lose his head, essentially.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. That's what I found fascinating about it. Cause, like, it's a sport unlike any other sport. There's an aspect of violence which is being woked out of the league right now. But there is this aspect of, like, kind of the mental chess game. And in a team sport like that, it's like you kind of don't see that in other. Like, you see a pitching duel maybe, but, like, you don't really see someone like you who's like a guy in the depth chart who you bring out, and he's like. He's going to make Sidney Crosby cry. Yeah, basically.

[B]

Yeah. I think it's funny. I've never really thought about it like this, but, like, think about it as, like, an organized crime family, so. And I'll use Jaromir Jagr as an example. He's the Godfather, right. And at some point during a game, the Godfather's gonna look down at the end of the bench at me.

[A]

So it's not coming from Torila. It's not coming from the coach?

[B]

No, no, no. And really, it always came from me. Cause I was uncontrollable.

[A]

But did you guys pool the fine?

[B]

Yeah, sometimes.

[A]

That's so sick.

[B]

That's illegal for me to tell you that. That we would say actively in the dressing room, like, okay, somebody go and fucking kill Matt Cook. Yeah. And the boys will put the money on the board.

[A]

He had it coming.

[B]

He did, yeah. You know, he married. This is interesting. In junior, when we're younger. Yeah. Like 15 to 20. We play in this. The Canadian Hockey League. Yeah. You move away from home. You cooked, you move away from home. I was good.

[A]

You were good? Yeah, I was watching highlights.

[B]

Oh, really? Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You move away from home and you live with a local family.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Matt Cook married the mom. The mom that he moved in with. Wait, he stole the mom? Well, yeah. Yeah. So. So, all right. Essentially. Basically my role was to shift the momentum if we were going in and playing a team on the road. And it was a tough building to play in. And usually collectively, guys were like, montreal on a Saturday night is a tough building to play in. And I always knew that. And I would go in and I would basically try and put a fucking giant target on my back by spewing vulgar at everyone that I could from warm up till the start of the puck drop. Because my idea was the guys are a little. We got to weather the storm in Montreal. The first five minutes, 10 minutes, they come hard. I got to make sure that bring it all on me. Bring it all on me and let everybody be comfortable. And I want Yoggs to have space and whoever else so that. And then at some point during the game, maybe we're going to be In a tight game, maybe we're going to be losing and we need a little. You know what I mean? And then you send me out there and.

[A]

So sick.

[B]

I'm gonna try and change the momentum. I'm gonna hopefully draw a penalty which is gonna put our team on the power play or I'm gonna fucking make somebody go crazy. And the goalie's gonna leave the net and whatever.

[A]

So your parents were teachers?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So why are you bad?

[B]

So the first time my mom got called by the school. School and it was in grade one. And I have a five year old who's going into kindergarten next year. So I have an idea of what like grade one is now. She got a call from the principal saying, so Sean. We have a deaf kid in Sean's class and he doesn't believe he's deaf. So he's been yelling in his ear all afternoon. That's early for a grade. For grade one. That's early to kind of go in that hard.

[A]

It's kind of. You had a hypothesis and you did. It's an experiment. Yeah.

[B]

Problem solving.

[A]

And the kid was lying for attention. No, but like hockey is like, for us, when we think Canada, that we

[B]

think that's your national sport. Yes.

[A]

And. And it is the opposite of what the stereotype is of a Canadian. Right. Of like a nice guy. Right. Like, and. And it is something that Canada could fuck up America at. Right. Until the recent tournament. We almost had your asses.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The. What is it? The Tri wizard tournament or whatever the fuck they are.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. The Three nations or the Four Nations Cup. Yeah.

[A]

I feel like that brought hockey back a little bit.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, my idea of that was because essentially the Kachuk boys, whose dad, they call him Big Walt, Keith Tkachuk, great American player, but he played with so many Canadians. Yeah. That I think by default the boys are almost more Canadian than they are American. But what they're doing is now they're changing the culture of American hockey.

[A]

So like, what's that, what's the. What's the hang? Right. So you're like in the mlb, right? You have like, you have like MAGA farm boys and. And then you have like passionate Latin men and I guess now you have like Japanese guys with gambling debt. But like you guys have Russians, you have like Scandinavians and then you have like. Also you guys have like French Canadians

[B]

and then Canadians, which are two different things.

[A]

Is it are Americans and. And Anglo Canadians. Is that kind of more of a group or is it like in a locker room?

[B]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[A]

You see someone as American in a locker room.

[B]

Yeah. No. Well, no, we see guys as Western leaguers, because Western leaguers, they don't like the hard stuff. They'll just drink, like, 80 beers. And guys from the Ontario League, they like to mix in. They like to get the fireballs and the. So it's sort of like a regional thing where. And American guys mostly went to college.

[A]

Oh, they. Yeah.

[B]

And none of us went to college.

[A]

Did you. The last school you went to was, like, 16 before that.

[B]

I think it might even a little bit earlier. Yeah. Yeah. 16. Yeah.

[A]

And then you started playing juniors, and

[B]

that's when I started playing juniors. And that's. You know, when you move away from home, you move in with this family. Some guys fall in love. Some guys, I just fuck them up. I just went to work, I shot Pucks. I didn't want to go to school. The rink was open. I said, what do you mean? This is our arena, and the ice is there, and you're not renting it. And I. So I think, like, early on, I was one of the. I was just like, I'm not. I'm gonna go shoot Pucks.

[A]

You wanted to work?

[B]

I wanted to work, yeah.

[A]

So what are the Russian guys like?

[B]

Russian guys are incredible.

[A]

Do you guys hang with them?

[B]

New money, baby.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

It's so fun.

[A]

Louis Vuitton.

[B]

It's so fun. Yes.

[A]

Genuine leather.

[B]

And I played with sort of both generations, because when I got to Detroit, Fedorov, we had Sergei, we had Fedorov, Larionov, we had Datsuk, we had a lot of great Russians. Sergey was first generation and second generation because he played for so long, and he kind of. He's the epitome of, like, American. A Russian coming to America. He's the original Miami Russian. Okay. He went to Miami, he falls in love with Anna Kournikova, he goes on that run. But that. That. So Russians, we like Eastern Europeans, we like Swedes, because Swedes are the most similar to.

[A]

Canadians don't fuck with each other.

[B]

They don't like each other. And the Finns are the worst drinkers ever.

[A]

What's the. What's the stereotype of the Finns? Are they like, just like monsters?

[B]

Yeah, you're like dumb monsters. Look at UC over there. What's he thinking about? And then he gets drunk and, you know, everything that he's ever thought.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In a matter of an hour.

[A]

And the Swedes are, like handsome legends.

[B]

They're just like.

[A]

They're good Lads.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that's why Canadians are drawn to them, because they're very similar to us.

[A]

What about America, dude? We're more like.

[B]

You know, I didn't meet a Jew until I came to America.

[A]

Right. Until Jews. Montreal is very Jewish city. Right.

[B]

But I grew up in Toronto, has one part now. All my closest friends are from there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But growing up, I didn't know. But when I got to Detroit. Yeah. Michigan. University of Michigan, Bloomfield Hills. Bloomfield Hills. Okay.

[A]

I know all the Jew cities.

[B]

Right. So that's how I. I. Yeah, yeah. So that's kind of. That was. That was my introduction to that. But as far as the Scotty Bowman. Scotty.

[A]

Is he two days on Jewish? He.

[B]

He could be. I could see him.

[A]

Can we start that rumor?

[B]

Yeah, I could see it. Like, he's got that little. He's kind of like, hello, boys. Yes. Yeah.

[A]

So you were playing juniors. You cooked, right?

[B]

I was good, yeah.

[A]

And your profile. Was your profile similar to what it. Like your game was similar to what it became in NHL, or did you emphasize certain elements to make it into the league? Cause you were undrafted, correct?

[B]

I was undrafted. So part of the reason was because of how I was acting. Because you're a prick playing. Yes. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I still have a little bit of resentment towards Canadian hockey, who. They have their own whole mess that they've been doing some things that they shouldn't have or whatever because they kept me off our national teams because they thought I was a bad teammate. Yeah. And I was just misunderstood.

[A]

Wouldn't it have felt amazing, like, oh,

[B]

Canada, to put that thing on. Would you have cried the crest so

[A]

you get side to the wings right in the middle of a dynasty.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, that was like a fucking. And you're about to go to Detroit right now.

[B]

I'm leaving here, going to Detroit for our centennial alumni weekend celebration. I haven't seen some of these guys, probably, and I haven't seen Dominic Hasek in 15 years.

[A]

Would you consider him the goat or your old friend Fatso?

[B]

You go. Patrick Waugh Brodeur, and I think Hasek. But then, like, I could say Terry Sawchuk, but, like, I don't. That was.

[A]

That's olden.

[B]

80 years ago. I don't know.

[A]

From what I understand, it's just a completely different game at this point. The skill level is much higher.

[B]

Yeah. And, like, it's sick. It's so good.

[A]

They're so good at. They're so good at ball.

[B]

It's. It's a Very interesting. The evolution of, like, the last four years. Well, it's the McDavid kid.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

He's nasty. McJesus, Mick. Jesus, he's so good.

[A]

Yeah, well, he's not good at the press like you were.

[B]

No, but he's gonna have to be because he's gonna sign with the Rangers in two years.

[A]

Really? He's gonna have to start talking shit like you. Are you gonna, like, kind of bring him in baby bruh style?

[B]

You know, I've always thought that that would be the perfect job for me.

[A]

Should we write for. For McDavid and.

[B]

And. Or just everything? Yeah. Should we be like, everything? What he wears, how he. You know, we got to help the transition.

[A]

You do fashion, I'll do. I'll do bits.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, I'm good. I got good bits.

[A]

Oh, no, you're better, actually, for a hockey context. You're better when you're in, like, a minor league team for, you know, the best team in the world.

[B]

So. Yeah.

[A]

How do you work your way up?

[B]

So, okay, Detroit, 2002. I think the greatest hockey team ever on paper, probably. And they actually. We actually won the Stanley Cup. I say we hesitantly, because I was. I didn't play in the playoffs, but I was on the team during the year, and I didn't play. I think I. If I had played two more games during the regular season, I would have had my name on the cup, but whatever.

[A]

This weekend, sneak in and just get a tape and just write your name.

[B]

Well, we rewrite history everywhere else. I know, right?

[A]

Lord Stanley wouldn't care.

[B]

No. So, Detroit, 2002. I play one year in the minors in Cincinnati, but I'm lucky enough to play for a coach who's now essentially banned from the NHL. This guy Mike Babcock was my minor coach, and he's a lunatic. He got kicked off. I love him. He's one of my favorite people of all time. He got fired a couple years ago before the season started, because he made all the guys on the team come in and he said, open your phone books, your. Your camera. I want to see all the pictures you have in your phone. Leave your phone with me, and I'll give it back to you.

[A]

This is Joseph Stalin, and they.

[B]

And they fired him.

[A]

He's running the kgb, which.

[B]

Who would. I mean, of all the sports. Okay, here's what I'm gonna say. The hockey players would have the most fucked up pictures in their phones. Yeah.

[A]

What would. Like. Like what the. Like what.

[B]

It would just be so diverse. Yeah. You know it would be like a hand up a cow's ass. Like actually working and milking the cows in Saskatchewan. And then it might be somebody having. He might have a hand in his ass. I mean, hockey players are wild. They are the wildest.

[A]

I like the parallel. The parallel reference.

[B]

Why would you want to see that?

[A]

So, locker room talk. How many micros have you seen in an NHL locker room?

[B]

Oh, God. So, I mean, it just wore off, like. But I know who the big.

[A]

Have you seen micros in a professional sports league?

[B]

Yeah, there's a couple.

[A]

Do good for them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Honestly.

[B]

What's he gonna do?

[A]

Busted their fucking asses.

[B]

Usually give it up for them.

[A]

Actually keep it up for them.

[B]

Yeah. Slovakians.

[A]

Slovakia. Teeny tiny.

[B]

Teeny tiny.

[A]

That's what they say. Really?

[B]

No. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. You would walk into the sauna or the steam room after practice, and my left winger would be shaving my right winger's back.

[A]

Really?

[B]

So, you know, that's the love of brotherhood. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And it just kind of wears off after a certain amount of time.

[A]

Did you get rookie treatment? Like, who. Did you have a vet? Like, how did those guys, like, who are like, literally on technically the best hockey team.

[B]

I learned from the best.

[A]

How do they. How do they treat you?

[B]

I learned from like the OGs guy, like, Brendan Shanahan told me a couple of things. He said, never take a yellow taxi and always have more than $400 in your. In your pocket.

[A]

Was he a pimp now?

[B]

Just. Just ready.

[A]

Yeah, he's just ready.

[B]

And also, you know, the appearance of like.

[A]

Sounds cool, though.

[B]

You don't take a yellow taxi.

[A]

You don't take it.

[B]

No.

[A]

Sounds about broke. Yeah.

[B]

And it could sound cool, but we're going the other way. Yeah, we're just going. We're going up here. A guy like Chris Chelios, I'll tell this story. What a legend. The first time I ever went out with Chelli and I was staying with him, I think during training camp. And we went out and it was Detroit, you know, there's not that much to do. Yeah. Anyways, I think we were pulling onto his street and it was like 2:30, 2:30am and he pulls onto the street and then he just pulls the car over to the side of the road. He used to drive like a 68 Cadillac, like an old school that sometimes wouldn't start. Yeah. It's so long. So he puts it in park and when you crank those seats back, it's like Delta One. You like Delta.

[A]

Lay flat.

[B]

Yeah. Lay flat, dude.

[A]

Of course I'm a Delta boy.

[B]

And I looked over, I was like, I didn't know what was going on. And he said, listen, life is all about setting precedence, okay? If I go home now, before 3am the wife's going to think something's going on. If I come home after 3am Like I always do, there's no questions asked. You don't disrupt the system. So isn't that, isn't that an. Like that's the level of commitment. Yeah. Is off the charts.

[A]

Think that he's getting pussy. I don't understand.

[B]

No, no, no. It wasn't about that. It wasn't. No, no, no. It was about.

[A]

I'm sorry.

[B]

It was about wives hassle husbands. Like what the hell are you doing out?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then you come home earlier. You've now set the precedent back. You could do that. Like you should be home earlier if you came home at 2:30 instead of three like you've been doing for.

[A]

And that's what she gets.

[B]

Years. So that was sort of. I'm telling that because in all the different situations, different archetypes of guys on that team, they all had their own high level operation that they were running.

[A]

What are goalies like? They're weird.

[B]

Crazy. He's so crazy.

[A]

Like, they're like, they're like baseball pitchers are like sociopaths.

[B]

Break down the, break down the position. So they wake up in the morning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Practices at 10:30. By 10:40 they've probably had 700 hockey pucks shot off of them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Off of their body for practice. Every day. Every day. Every game. Twice a day on game days.

[A]

They're like masochists. They're.

[B]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah.

[A]

And are they superstitious too?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[A]

They're like we.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Weirdos.

[B]

Left skate on. Don't touch that. Don't walk through that door. Don't look at that person. I put sour cream on my spaghetti. All kinds of weird shit. Yeah. Sour. Sour cream and ketchup.

[A]

From what I understand. You. You bounce around. You were in la.

[B]

I didn't bounce around.

[A]

Well, you were. You were the.

[B]

You were Red Wings played on three teams.

[A]

Four.

[B]

Dallas doesn't count.

[A]

That was a fun one. That was a little detour.

[B]

Little detour. Yeah.

[A]

You got to throw out the first pitch at the, at the Rangers game.

[B]

At a Rangers game.

[A]

I saw that.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And they all applauded. They're like, this is. This is going to work out. This is going to be.

[B]

And by the way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Brett hall, who I'm gonna see this weekend.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, the greatest.

[A]

You guys lived together, right?

[B]

Yeah, but he was the GM in Dallas. That's why I went.

[A]

Did he cancel your contract?

[B]

Well, no, he. Well, essentially, yes. But his boss did.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

From what I understand, like, you got to New York and there's like, you found a home in the NHL. Yeah, but like, the interesting thing about you is like, the way you talk about moving to New York is like. Like Carrie Bradshaw, like, it was.

[B]

I was the. Yeah, the sex in the city. You know, I like, had a moment. Hold on a second.

[A]

What's up?

[B]

Hold on a second. I don't even know if you know this. Has anyone ever walked off set while they were doing.

[A]

Was that a gun?

[B]

No, no. You know that I. That I've written a romance novel that's a best selling hockey romance novel right now and.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah, we're bidding. You know, we're gonna option. This thing's so hot. This is about a New York Ranger rookie who spends the summer in the Hamptons with two of his former college teammates. They fucked their way through the entire Hamptons.

[A]

And this is hardcore sexism.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, nice, dude. Can I have this?

[B]

Yes. You didn't know that I.

[A]

Do you want to read a little. Do you want to read, like. Read some. Read some of the steamiest.

[B]

I'll read you the. No. You know what I'll do?

[A]

You're literally.

[B]

Carrie. Yes. You're reading.

[A]

You're writing fucking books. Yeah.

[B]

Here's the first chapter of my. Of my. It's three pages.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Do you have a pillow of my romance novel? Durham, NH 2 years ago It's a snowy night in a town that is all activity and cheer even after a loss. The cobblestone streets are blanketed and white and lined with twinkling Christmas trees. I have my red cheeked girlfriend under my arm as we walk down the street, the tails of her scarf flying in the icy wind. We walk past a bar with its door open. An Amateur band is playing Take Me Home, country roads. It's 11:30 on a Saturday night and we're headed back to my apartment off campus. She's got my jacket on. We turn onto a street that's quiet. We hear only the sound of our boots on the sleeted pavement, the crunch of salt under our feet. Three big guys with beards walk towards us. Townies. Oh, no, they're drunk. One of them looks at her and asks, how does it feel to be with the biggest bitch on campus? Clearly, they watch me Take that bad penalty at the end of the game, it costs my team the win. And while I can't erase the past, I can predict the future. I know exactly what's about to happen. Everything goes into slow motion. I turn to my girlfriend very calmly and say, don't ask any questions. Just turn around and walk home. Okay? Right now, go. I am clear. I am strategic. This is when I do my best computing in the eye of the storm. If I could choose to live in this space, I would. It's where I feel comfortable, serviceable on the team. This is my role. I cause chaos for distraction, for intimidation, for the win. I've done it since I was a kid. Kid? Who did you just call a bitch? I say. Before he can answer. I smack one guy, open hand, slap him across the jaw. He's down. I hit the second guy on the side of his head, on his ear. Before his hands even come out of his pockets, he's down. The third guy is six feet away, coming toward me. I take two hard steps and bury my shoulder into his belly button, wrap my arms around his legs and pick him up off the ground, slam his head off the curb, bounce his head right off the concrete. He's out cold, bleeding from the ears. I sit down on the curb. I have blood on my hands, but they aren't shaking. At least there were three. It's easier to sell. I take out my phone, put my hand on one guy's chest to see if he's still breathing. I call the cops. Hi, my name is Carter Hughes. I play hockey for the University of New Hampshire. I just got attacked by three men on the corner of Summer street in Maine. One of the guys is hurt badly. Send an ambulance and the police. I'll stick around until you get here.

[A]

Wow, that's sexy. That's very romantic.

[B]

And then the.

[A]

I haven't read a book Since Harry Potter 8. I think I'm gonna go back in on books.

[B]

And can I tell you, it's a dual perspective. So your girlfriend. Your girlfriend can read it because they start fucking a lot in the book. Oh, she can?

[A]

Yeah, she can.

[B]

Anyways, it's. It's. We have a female protagonist and a male, so the chapters bounce back and forth between Carter and his love interest.

[A]

Oh, I like that narrative device.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

It's like Russia.

[B]

Wait, that was fun, right?

[A]

Yeah, I love. I'm, like, hooked.

[B]

Can we put it on the table, though?

[A]

Yeah, let's put it on the table.

[B]

Well, just.

[A]

Oh, yeah, it's fine.

[B]

Great.

[A]

So what what's it like to fight you? So you guys are just wearing. You're wearing ice skates and you know, you know how to fight wearing ice skates? Like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What a weird thing. What a weird sport. It's a. It's. It's the only sport where there's like, you're allowed an aspect of fighting, but you're also on ice skates.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Did you guys fight? Like, were the figure skating guys and the. And the hockey guys. Was that like beef growing up on the rig?

[B]

You know what's so funny? There's an old wives tale. Elvis Stoico was a Canadian Olympian figure skater. I think he was the first man to do the five or the four quad.

[A]

A quad? Yeah. A quad, Yeah.

[B]

I have been told that he roundhouse kicked Eric Lindross in a bar outside of Toronto in the muskokas in the summer.

[A]

It was a good question.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. So that to me, I. I don't know. That's so sick. Yeah. Be careful because they're actually like great athletes.

[A]

They're just wearing sequins. Yeah, that's why it's a distraction. They're also John Wick. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, so. So like, what's your, like, how many fights in your life have you think. What's your body count of fights?

[B]

Oh, God, man. Dude, I fought so many delivery guys in New York City. Am I. Am I adding is.

[A]

Is that you get really mad at them on your inst.

[B]

I used to. I used to. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You're not.

[B]

Lots of fights. When I was 12, I played in Nova Scotia for a few years. My dad got transferred. He worked for Sears. RIP Sears.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we had a tournament on Prince Edward Island. You take the ferry? Anyways, we won the tournament and we played against another team from Nova Scotia. When we took the ferry back from P.E.I. they had to put me up in the captain's quarters of the ferry because the parents on the other team wanted to kill me.

[A]

Parents?

[B]

The parents of the players of the other team. We were 12.

[A]

So you were a little fucking.

[B]

I was bad.

[A]

You're a bad boy.

[B]

Bad.

[A]

Did your mom try to make you be good?

[B]

You know, I once saw her at the bay. You know, the. It's our. It's our. The bay. You know, the blankets, the three stripes, the Canadian heritage, the bay. She once spent four hours in a bay until they took her return. She just wouldn't leave. Yeah, she just stayed there.

[A]

Oh, so you got your shit from

[B]

her and that was a. Was one of those like trauma tree moments, maybe, or for the better.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that was when I knew. Yeah. So then you just, you dig in.

[A]

You saw her dealing with customer service.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that what you're saying?

[B]

Yeah. She was trying to return something. They, they were refusing to take it, and she said to them, I will never leave.

[A]

Yeah. Are you sure you're not Jewish?

[B]

I am, I am. You can hire me for bat mitzvahs.

[A]

Do you think you fought more guys or fought, had sex with more girls in your life?

[B]

Individual wild question.

[A]

I don't know. Just think about it. Or are you not, are you not a notch on the bedpost kind of guy?

[B]

I think just, just, I mean, I, I, listen, I. We all had fun.

[A]

We all had fun.

[B]

I did a lot of. And a lot of fighting.

[A]

Yeah. So cool.

[B]

If I could be honest with you. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. I wonder what the number is. I wonder what the number is on the spreadsheet.

[B]

Oh, God. Oh, God.

[A]

Like, is it, like, is it nice to fight?

[B]

You know what's so interesting is that

[A]

you, like, like it.

[B]

I became. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm now a martial artist. I took up jiu jitsu three years ago, four years ago maybe. And now I don't want to fight ever. Because if you get too close to me and something pops off, I, I want to embrace you and choke and I want to choke the air out of you. Whereas before I wanted to, like, use my fists. And that was, that was. I was a man trying to find a way to cure his urges.

[A]

You, you, you had just a, you had a guy inside of you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you had a, you had the.

[B]

And the problem is you get rewarded

[A]

for it in your game.

[B]

In our game.

[A]

So cool.

[B]

Yeah. And the crowd goes nuts and you. And then you feel like, God, cool.

[A]

When they fight each other.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It's so cool. And now they're woking it out of the league.

[B]

They're still, they're still fighting.

[A]

We gotta let the boys fight.

[B]

It's coming back.

[A]

Is what's more dangerous, like, for a player. It's dirty. Hits have to be more dangerous than a mono. E. Mono.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[A]

You did a move which I, this is why I'm like, we're kind of the same guy. Which is like the massive. The notion is if a man squares up and you have to, you have to accept the challenge.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you did the move because you were a wind up guy where you'd be like, what, you know, you'd be in a guy's ear. Be like, you Fucking pussy. You fucking bitch. And then, and then he'd like, lose it. And then you'd be like, what? What I did? What did I do? You know, which is in front of an entire stadium. Just like the security in inside of yourself. To be able to be like. To be. It's. It's so Israel of you. Just like, it's so Benny. I mean, no, but I mean, I

[B]

call him Benny for you to.

[A]

For you to like.

[B]

Net nahu.

[A]

Oh, Net nanu.

[B]

I call him Benny.

[A]

Oh, I call him. I call him a. Hey, guys, Caleb Pitts here. When hair starts to thin, confidence can too. That's why Hims makes it simple to feel like yourself again. Inspiring stuff. I plan on taking hims and looking like this in one year. For more information, here's my boss and friend, Adam Friedland. Take it away. A dog. Hims offers convenient access to a range of prescription hair loss treatments with ingredients that work, including chews, oral medications, serums and sprays. Dr. Trusted ingredients like finasteride and minoxidil can stop further hair loss and regrow hair in as little as three to six months. You shouldn't have to go out of your way to feel like yourself. Hims brings expert care straight to you with 100% online access to personalized treatment plans that puts your goals first. No hidden fees, no surprise costs, just real personalized care on your schedule. Think of Hims as your digital front door that gets you back to your old self with simple 100% online access to trusted treatments for real and health concerns all in one place. For simple online access to personalized and affordable care for hair loss, weight loss and more, visit hims.com tafs that's hims.com tafs for your free online visit hims.com tafS Featured products include compounded drug products when the FDA does not approve. Verify for safety, effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions and important safety information. Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. And this. Let's go back to. Okay.

[B]

I said terrible. I said terrible shit. I did research.

[A]

You did. That's what I was gonna say. Did you have compromise?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

On guys?

[B]

Yes, I had a dossier.

[A]

What depths did you go to to, like, find out?

[B]

Anywhere, really. Anywhere.

[A]

You were like Roy Cohn.

[B]

God love RIP Roy.

[A]

One of the.

[B]

What a man?

[A]

Sane? American.

[B]

What a man?

[A]

American.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, like, not like you. What a fucking. Come on, bro. By the way, not a costume, by the way.

[B]

Yeah, this is That I wear. I only wear it. Yeah, yeah. Because Canada lost their identity. I don't even want to talk.

[A]

We don't. Let's not even talk.

[B]

Anyways. Yes, I did my research, okay. So I would line up with so and so who, you know, I played junior against him. We're the same age. Okay. So we've been playing against each other since we were 12. And his sister Sarah, works at the Keg in Toronto. And I know that two Saturdays ago,

[A]

she got double teamed.

[B]

She didn't get double teamed, but, you know, she took down possibly the captain of the. The Montreal Canadiens.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I know that because I've got feelers out. I got people, and everyone wants to provide information and. And share information.

[A]

You had, like, a secret police.

[B]

I had a fucking dossier.

[A]

He was Stalin, basically. Like, you did have, like, a KGB working for you.

[B]

What was I gonna do? I mean, if you're gonna do that job, then, like, be the best at it and be prepared.

[A]

Do you think because you were undersized, you were conceived to be undersized, that this was, like, a marginal advantage that you could, like, exploit and, like, have a career for 13 years in the, like.

[B]

Absolutely. It was a survival skill. It was also scarring from being the smallest on my team since I was a kid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, because standing beside you, you might. People might go, oh, he's pretty. What a big guy.

[A]

Five, ten is good. But we're the same height. Dude, I look the same birthday.

[B]

I know. Yeah. It's true. But when I was playing, it was a big game, and guys were. I mean, I took a video with your. It's. No, it's not. I've heard that it's not as big, but, like, guys were six. The guys were, like, you know, huge.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

60 pounds, 70 pounds. Like, I did. I. Yaromir Yagur. I saw him for the first time 10 years. Yoggs would just. He's such a big man. He would crush me. Yeah. So how do you fight a guy

[A]

that big, a bigger guy?

[B]

Because fighting's a different mechanism because it's all about levers and pushing and pulling. So if you know and understand, like,

[A]

how do you fight in general? Yeah.

[B]

I fought to not get hit. I fought to not get hit, to make it, to sell the fight, to not hurt my hand, and to make sure that I landed on top of that fucking guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that if we were on the road, the building went quiet, and now I've just neutralized one of their energy. There's no Energy. And if we're at home, the place goes fucking crazy.

[A]

And you're a legend in the Garden.

[B]

Pretty good.

[A]

I mean, like, your profile of player, I would imagine that that just amps the fucking stadium up, like. Yeah, like, to a thousand.

[B]

Yeah. Especially in New York. Like, you know, these, you know, New Yorkers, they used to be hard, hardened people, you know, blue collar.

[A]

Well, it.

[B]

It feels like it's coming back. It's about to, I think us kind of guys. Yeah. Right. Doing shit, working. So in New York, the fans appreciated it. I played in LA and like, they didn't like me in la. Yeah, the fans. Like, I have more people come up to me in LA that go, I didn't like you. You were a king. I didn't like you as the king. You took too many bad penalties. Whatever was different in la. Yeah.

[A]

Bullying.

[B]

Oh, oh, oh, oh, God.

[A]

You made fun of your. Your teammate's lisp.

[B]

I guess that. I've heard that, that, you know, I concede post league. Maybe I did.

[A]

Did you make amends with certain people? Like, were you like, I was fucking dickhead to you?

[B]

Definitely. What do you mean? Anytime that I switched teams, I had to.

[A]

But that's political

[B]

youe want to talk about awkward?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, get traded from the rain to. From LA to New York and you said despicable things, some bad things to some of the guys, terrible guys.

[A]

But they realized. They realize.

[B]

Yeah, you got to have an awkward sidebar.

[A]

They're like, he's our guy now.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I feel like you could handle that awkwardness. You go in and it's the only

[A]

way I've been able to survive. And I think, like, the other thing is this is like going back to the original question of you being the smartest guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you've been around these guys since you were eight. Probably.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know their psychology, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And like, for me, getting funny, it was also just. I could confuse bros to the point where some of my friends even kind of realized I was making fun of them.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But it wouldn't escalate to them. See red.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I would. I would do it the opposite where they'd just be like, walking away. They'd be like, what the fuck did he say?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That was like my mechanism. So it's just like two sides.

[B]

The mechanics of, of, of what we do are the same.

[A]

Who's the dumbest guy?

[B]

Like, are they like Donald Brashear and, and you know, like Martin Brashear from

[A]

the Michael Jackson documentary?

[B]

Donald Brashear he had a Great Dane or some sort of giant dog, and he used to shower with it at the arena.

[A]

Yeah. At the arena.

[B]

Yeah. Like, and hockey players, we don't have our showers. Yeah. We don't. Hockey players have this weird culture. We don't have individual stalls.

[A]

Yeah. Who cares?

[B]

It's one big shower.

[A]

Family.

[B]

Yeah. And I want. And he was in there showering with his dog. Whatever. I don't like him for sure. Was not cool.

[A]

Who do you still have smoke with? Do you. Is there a guy that. You're like, that guy?

[B]

There's a guy named Matthew Barnaby who actually played for the Rangers.

[A]

Oh, I remember that guy.

[B]

And Barnaby was. I mean, I love Matthew Barnaby as a player. Matthew Barnaby. Now on. On. On X. He doesn't even use Instagram, which is, like, such a boomer move. He's only an X guy. Could be a cool move. Maybe. Actually. Could be. The Move is a great Instagram account, by the way.

[A]

What is. Could be the move?

[B]

It's. Could be the move.

[A]

What is it?

[B]

Could be the move is during the World Series, because you're a team player, you wear your batting glove to work.

[A]

Oh, for your boys.

[B]

For the boys. Maybe they send it to them and then everybody does it and everyone does it. Yeah. Could be the move.

[A]

Could be the move. I got in. I lost $200 million in gambling for Shohei.

[B]

Oh, you were the guy.

[A]

I'm the bagman. No. I'm not the translator.

[B]

No. You kind of could look like him.

[A]

Do I look Japanese?

[B]

If we shaved your head. And that's respect.

[A]

Aru, dude. That's respect. Wait, so, like, obviously you had compromise. You knew the things that would trigger them, but, like, you knew that they're also bros. Like, was there an aspect of the fact that you're interning at Vogue? You were, like, kind of a dandy off. Off ice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Was there an aspect where you, like. There was an entrenched Maybe, like, I'm getting chirped by, like, a fucking. Like, what this guy is like.

[B]

So they.

[A]

I was a fancy boy.

[B]

Yeah. I was like. There's a great clip of Wayne Simmons, who was a great player. He was a black hockey player.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not many. Yeah. There's an incredible clip of him. He's on the Philadelphia bench, and I'm in the penalty box, and he screams. And you can see it. He calls me a faggot. He screams.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I did Internet Vogue, and I did it because I've always been curious, but I also think Subconsciously. And now, you know, being able to analyze, like, your life.

[A]

You were fucking with.

[B]

I was fucking with. I was the troll. I was the alt.

[A]

You're a genius.

[B]

I was so deep in the troll

[A]

game because there is amongst bros, like, an entrenched homophobic. And you were also early, Trench.

[B]

I mean, no, yeah, yeah, you were early.

[A]

You were, like, well ahead of the curve. And you, like, advocated for gay rights, like, in the league.

[B]

I was the first professional athlete to really. On the record. Yeah. In my Ranger jersey, which is credit to Jim Dolan. Yeah, yeah. Oh, by the way, can I tell you something? I. I do Jiu Jitsu at Clockwork. Jiu Jitsu in soho. You should start doing it. A man that can't grapple, like to late 30s.

[A]

You learn how to fight.

[B]

Absolutely. Right now, I could turn you into it. They could turn you into a fucking machine. Yeah. An assassin.

[A]

Would I fight, like, girls at first?

[B]

I mean, like, do you roll with girls?

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You ever pop one?

[B]

No, no, no. But you roll with girls.

[A]

But what if I lose to a girl in the NHL?

[B]

That's the point.

[A]

It's embarrassing.

[B]

That's the point. It's an ego killer. But what were we talking about?

[A]

You do jiu jitsu at clockwork. Jiu Jitsu.

[B]

No, no, I know, but I was going into it for some reason.

[A]

We both are idiots.

[B]

We were talking about Dolan. You know, here's what's funny, and I will say this right now, because Dan Carcillo, who played for the Rangers, played for Philly, won a Stanley cup in Chicago. He's now one of the leaders in psilocybin therapy. Yeah, okay. I have ct. There's no question. I have ct. Because my short term memory is not good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. It's getting better because of what I do now for work. And I'm like, I've been working that muscle. My fucking long term memory. I've had numerous people on this New York trip tell me stories. I hadn't seen them in a while. Like, wild stories that I had no recollection of.

[A]

I think you're probably just fucked up.

[B]

I was moving fast and I was fucked up. But also a little bit of the CTE is starting to.

[A]

The short goes first, though.

[B]

Well. Well, my shorts. Not like, it's not the best.

[A]

My mom had. My mom had.

[B]

Look what just happened.

[A]

My mom had brain. Brain cancer, so she experienced, like, dementia. And like, the cool thing was, like, when she started, the short term went, I would talk to her and I'd have her tell stories from before. And so she tells. She would remember things from like, like 1981, like in. And that. That was like a way I could like, interesting chill with her.

[B]

Like, she's still here.

[A]

No, she. She passed away. Yeah. She's my best dude. She's my twin.

[B]

You know, I've been reading a lot of research papers on LSD and Alzheimer's prevention.

[A]

She. Well, yeah, she had brain cancer.

[B]

No, I understand. But. But the brain and, and so sad.

[A]

But for you. So, like, I want to talk about torturella and like that situation because like, you had.

[B]

Did you just say. Yeah. Your mom dying was obviously terribly sad. Right?

[A]

Of course, yeah.

[B]

Was it recently?

[A]

No, it was like five years ago.

[B]

But you're still in the trenches on it.

[A]

No, it's just like, it's kind of a nice thing. You realize that it's just. It never gets better, but in a way that's nice where it just becomes part of you now. You just understand life in a deeper way.

[B]

Yes, yeah. Yeah. Yes.

[A]

And so it's just like you could get used to someone not being there.

[B]

I got it. I got it.

[A]

That aspect and it's so. It's just like. Yeah, it's like a defining moment.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I don't think I ever like, believed in God or anything, but like at the end of the. My family being together, I was like, oh, this is kind of the point. Like, you're just like, like, you know,

[B]

sharing and it was more of a spiritual thing versus.

[A]

No, it wasn't even spiritual. It was like, you know, like, if you live on earth and you have love and you give love to, you

[B]

have to have blood. Blood. You have each other's back.

[A]

Oh, blood.

[B]

Like you go down with the ship.

[A]

I learned to appreciate like, family a lot more because we had. We have family members that have like, literally sociopaths, like stolen money, bad people.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And we had close family friends that wanted to like, be around and helpful. And we. We asked them like, just like, not to like, they were like trying to like, let us meals to the house and then like the. Our family that are like just like. Or gypsies. Like, we. Those were the ones we wanted there, right?

[B]

Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I mean, just like people we've. We've had falling outs with for 20 years. Like, those are the people there's still like at the end of meeting there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In a really cool way. Because those are your guys. Yeah, those are your fucking guys.

[B]

Yep. I agree. I agree. And I think a little bit of that I don't know. I'm like, trauma is kind of good now because it's. It's helpful to kind of like. I feel like I never did ketamine. I did a ketamine drip once and it. And it felt like I was in a video game. Like I was kind of like stepping in jello. That's how I feel now. Like just sort of more open and like people have tough times and like I. I'm okay with. And part of that is becoming a martial artist. I want to feel now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also our job. You can't have highs and lows when you're a professional athlete. Like you're not paid to. You're paid to be emotional but also unemotional. And actually more. More. Less emotions is better.

[A]

Were there guys that were robots that you could just couldn't. You could fucking wind up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did it drive you nuts?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

There was like Joe Sakic. Joe Sakic has like just. He's like a. Yeah. He's the Terminator.

[B]

He can't. You. You know he's the term. Yeah. You couldn't. You couldn't. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, the. The. The high level GS. Those are like the samurais. Those were the guys that like just Buddha.

[A]

Buddhas. They can.

[B]

It's like clear the mechanism and they're just. They're on a different wavelength. Yeah. There's not many of those guys. But yeah.

[A]

I think in all professional sports those guys are always just the. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Yamamoto Shohei. I love the Japanese players.

[A]

The Kobe, like when Matt Barnes is like faking the inbound and Kobe doesn't flinch.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just like there.

[B]

He wants that. It's.

[A]

Yeah. There's something about it where he's just like. It does not. He did.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a human reflex to be like this. And he's just. He's determined.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

He's like shed his humanity.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's a killing machine.

[B]

No, I understand it.

[A]

I. I want to talk about the bro.

[B]

Well, Avery rule.

[A]

Let's. This is like. This is the most me thing. This is what really got me fired up. Because like you figured out. Do you know what a paneka is?

[B]

No. Is it a palindrome?

[A]

No. A pinneck is so. In soccer. Right.

[B]

Uh huh.

[A]

There they've been shooting like penalty kicks for a hundred years at the sport. And then this guy. I'll show you putting the.

[B]

Wait, wait.

[A]

This guy like realized he's like what if I just.

[B]

Is this recently?

[A]

No, this is like in the 80s. He's a Czechoslovakian guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. So it's just this Czechoslovakia guy. He's like, what if I don't go left or right? What if I just, like, chip it down the middle?

[B]

Oh, I remember the right. Yeah, of course. While goalie only needed to save. Right?

[A]

So, like.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The thing about the brodure moment. Right. Great.

[B]

Great. Great correlation, too, by the way, is

[A]

that you just did something. You Was it. What was the thought process? It was it. You say it's not calculated. You say you just. You skated towards.

[B]

So.

[A]

So it was like 15 seconds.

[B]

It wasn't premeditated. I'll say that.

[A]

So explain for the audience, like, what it was.

[B]

So. So Brodeur is a goalie, Marty. One of the greatest goalies of all time.

[A]

Fatso.

[B]

Fatso forgot to shake my hand.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm a forward. Our job is to basically get in front of his face and cause some sort of obstruction, kill his line of sight. That's really what you want to do as a player. You don't want. You don't want to be one on one with a goalie because he has sight on the puck. You want to shoot through a screen. All the great goal scorers, they shoot through screens. So it's like a seeing eye puck. Okay. My job was to not touch, really, the puck because I'm on the ice with Scott Gomez, legendary Gomer. Gomer Alaskan born Chris Drury, who's now the general manager of the Rangers, Brendan Shanahan and Jeremy Jagr, in my opinion, the greatest European player of all time. So my job is to make sure that I can break that sight line so that one of these superstars can get a puck into the net. Okay. When I go to the front of the net and Martin Brodeur, the goalie, who is a wily veteran, like a G. An og.

[A]

He was a shithouser, too.

[B]

He was a shithouser. He knew how to play the game. And I would go to the front of the net. And in hockey skates, if you poke a guy behind his knees because our blades are rockered, you can use the momentum, and the guy will just go ass over tea kettle. Yeah. So Brodeur would do that. Back of the knee. Yes. Boom, you're gone. And he wanted me to fall into him because then he would sell it and I would take a penalty. So it's this chess game between, you know, two diabolical guys that are trying to help their team win. Yes. Now, the moment that I made the decision, it was a power play. I knew that I had to go to the front of the net. Okay. I had like 15 seconds notice, like, okay, I'm going out there and I know where I need to go. I jump over the boards. This is Madison Square Garden during the fucking playoffs.

[A]

Like cathedral of the game.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Pre renovation. So the building even moved a little bit different back there. I take two strides and I can remember, like, having an inner debate with myself for the next, like, six to eight strides, which is probably two seconds. Yeah. From the time I jump over the boards to get in front of the net, we're talking like six seconds total. Maybe it's like a eureka moment. I said, you know, I love Risky Business. It's one of my favorite movies of all time. Sometimes you gotta just say, what the fuck?

[A]

So good.

[B]

And I said, yeah, I'm gonna do it. And I just went directly in front of him and I have the luxury of seeing his eyes that no one else could see. And this guy multiple Stanley Cups. And I just said, fuck. If I put my hand in front of his face and every time he moves somewhere, my hand moves with it. I've just solved the riddle of 100 years of this game, which is trying to break a goalie's eye line.

[A]

So effectively, you're going to turn your back to the game of hockey happening and you're going to just be annoying.

[B]

You're going to be like, yeah, I'd be like this, like, if you.

[A]

Yeah. And he's going to be like, get the fuck out of my way. Right, Right.

[B]

Look how quick that happens.

[A]

You're being annoying.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the dopest part of that sequence was that you fucking dunked.

[B]

I scored. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

How did that feel? Is that your favorite goal?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I think so. Do you feel like God, I think so.

[A]

That must the way the building fucking rock.

[B]

I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck, yeah.

[A]

Is that better than sex? Sex? Yeah. Has to be.

[B]

It's the one thing.

[A]

It's the goals.

[B]

I've never chased the dragon, but goals at msg, goals and Nashville or.

[A]

And you also know Andy Cohen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You have the best life ever.

[B]

People magazine said we were once engaged.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. Me and Andy used to do these Miami trips at the end of the season. So we go to Ultra, you know, Ultra Music Festival. They used to be cool.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now it's very commercialized, like everything. Hopefully your show. Hopefully you don't sell your soul.

[A]

No, dude. Well, I'm open for the highest bidder right Me, too. Arabia. Anyone that wants to call me.

[B]

What about Benny? Why isn't Benny paying you? Oh, the influencer program. You didn't get it.

[A]

You didn't get it.

[B]

You didn't get in on that.

[A]

I said a couple things with that.

[B]

Oh, all right.

[A]

I think I've said a couple things.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah.

[A]

I think I'm on the list. So.

[B]

Got it. So I do the thing, I score. Here's the interesting part of the whole thing. Okay. To change a rule in the NHL, you have to do it at the board of governors meeting in the summer. Yes. And the union, the players union, they're representing. It's a whole thing. Funny, they're talking about goalies.

[A]

I'm sorry.

[B]

No, no. So to change a rule in the NHL, you have to do it in the summer at the board of governors meeting, which is voted on between the players union and the teams. The owners. Yeah. Okay. We're gonna do a rule change. Everybody's gonna put a ballot in, and I'm sure it's on an iPad now. I did the fucking thing in front of Brodeur. We won the game. I think we won the game. We lost the game. We won the series.

[A]

You won the series.

[B]

Okay. Nice, nice.

[A]

You lost it. Overtime.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. So it was a high stakes game. I went to bed, I woke up the next morning, I had a missed call or a text message. Glenn Sather. And they were giving me a heads up, like, yo, they just changed the rule. And you're not allowed to do that tonight or ever again.

[A]

It's kind of.

[B]

Yeah. Do you think that, like, it's illegal and I want to do a 30 for 30 on it or some sort of, like, little mini doc.

[A]

It'd be amazing.

[B]

But I don't want to expose everyone. I just want to know, like, who made that call? Because that's a funny call. If Gary Bettman's like, okay, we're going to break precedent, we're going to do something illegal, but he can't do that again.

[A]

Like, all the owners are in their pajamas.

[B]

Right. And have to get them on.

[A]

Like a. Not a zoom. Right? Yeah.

[B]

Right. Like, did you see. Are we good? Can I. Can we. Can we do this? We're gonna. We're gonna step out of line here and do something that we've never done before. Because. Because the bad kid, the bad.

[A]

The bad guy. You were naughty.

[B]

Yeah, I found a loophole.

[A]

You found. I mean, it was just like.

[B]

It's a fucking gray area.

[A]

Moment of brilliance. And it's just like that is to be so cool.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I don't even think it should be against the rules.

[B]

I can see where they're coming from. Because then it gets a little bit of, like. Because then I would just. Well, I would draft the biggest guy I could ever find that I could put in skates and just bigger than Chara. Just make sure his arms could work and say, you got to figure out how to skate from here to the front of the net. And all you have to do is just use your, like, shack. I was.

[A]

I lived in D.C. during the, like, the Caps Pens years.

[B]

And I got.

[A]

I got back into hockey. It was really fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Actually, my friend was. Was sleeping with this girl, and she was. She was one of the ovi.

[B]

Oh, yeah? Yeah.

[A]

And she would just get a text, like he was. Like, he was.

[B]

She would just leave.

[A]

Yeah, she would just leave. She get a text that said, I want you in ass. He's the coolest guy of all time.

[B]

Ovi. I love you ever.

[A]

You ever chill with him?

[B]

No. They never had the luxury.

[A]

There's something so fucking, like, just lovable about him. Like, show hey way where they're like. They're kind of. They're kind of like. Like a big dog or something.

[B]

Because you know what? They love the game, but, like, there

[A]

was like, defenseman on the Pens that was like. He was 9ft tall.

[B]

Hal Gill.

[A]

Do you remember that guy?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I lacerated my spleen and almost died in St. Vincent's because I hit him

[A]

because of that guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What did you try to do?

[B]

No, it was. We were in the playoffs. It was the second round, I think it was game three, and a puck got dumped in from the blue line. And I can remember it so vividly, you know, it's weird what sticks with you. And I said to myself, it was like, I'm going to fucking kill hell Gill right now.

[A]

But he's like nine feet tall.

[B]

I know, but I. I'm. I'm going to like, I'm the guy that's going to prison rules. I am going biggest bastard. Hal Gill. Right now we're at home. I went 100 miles an hour. I hit him so fucking hard. And I think he just, like. He just kind of, like, leaned into me because he was huge. He was six foot eight. And I remember, like, you know when you get hit or punched and you want to pretend like it didn't hurt? So then I kind of like, got to the bench and Cass, our trainer, bounced off him. I bounced off of him, bounced off of him. I got to the bench, I said to. It was actually Jim Ramsey Rammer. I go. I think I just tore my abdominals. Can we go in and get a Toradol shot? So drugs. Yeah, yeah. So I. We went in and I got.

[A]

You guys were like, future. You guys were off of the. Off the perks.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well, we were the only way you get through.

[B]

Right? Well, Toradol's only. You can only use it in the playoffs. That's when we're allowed to technically use it.

[A]

You get better drugs.

[B]

Yeah. You get the good stuff. You get the actual. They put a needle. It's like the perfect. You know, the sports team, where you bend over the table and the needle goes in the axe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyways, I thought that I tore my abdominals. I got a Tore at all shot. It was my second. I finished the game, and after the game, I got into a cold tub, and I got into the cold tub, and all of a sudden I felt like I got stabbed in the shoulder. And shout out, doc Feldman, Andrew Feldman, good Jew. He said, let's go. They put me in a robe. They took me to St. Vincent's I got to St. Vincent's I had hit Hal Gill so hard that I lacerated my spleen, My own spleen. So he didn't hit me. Right. Normally you get hit by a car. You get a lacerated spleen in a car accident. I did it to myself because I was like, I'm going to kill Hal Gill right now. And he and I spent six nights in the ICU of St. Vincent, which is not even here anymore. They tore it down in the West Village.

[A]

Yeah. It's the nice hospital now. Well, the circles. Yeah.

[B]

It wasn't. It's where most of the people died of aids. Yes, yes. And I was in the basement, and I saw. I said, I'll go. I'm good with this at this point.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You always die.

[B]

Yeah. It was a shooting. They had to cauterize it, but they could only. It was the type of bleed that you could only see it when the scope was in. So I had to keep going in. They had to scope me, like, four times over the course of five days.

[A]

Crazy dude I talked to. I'll ask you first, and I'll tell you what I've gotten in my research. But how do you think your profile player would translate to 2025 NHL?

[B]

Oh, my God. Well, the funny thing is, if I had have started taking Jiu Jitsu while I was playing, I would have won Multiple Stanley Cups, and I'd probably be the President of the United States.

[A]

Really?

[B]

I mean, you know, you were born in Canada, right? That's true.

[A]

Off.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wait, so what.

[B]

But like, But.

[A]

But how would you jitsu help, though?

[B]

Because it slowed everything down. And what I wanted, what I did, I sped everything fast. I sped everything up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Everything went from like zero to a hundred immediately. And guys, you know, on my team, and it was warm ups. It was just always. It was constant.

[A]

Yeah, that was I. Soccer, like, some of the best players, they look like they're going like, it's so slow. Yeah, because, like, there's like a term for it, like a Spanish pausa, but where the players, like, there's chaos surrounding them and they just look like they're in the eye of the story.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And they just. Their everything is just so, like, people are just falling over. It, like, looks like. But what they're doing is their. Their brain is doing math, right? There's like, they're doing.

[B]

They're computing. Yes, yes.

[A]

And it's like.

[B]

And you know what's so ironic? It's like everything comes around full circle. I'm going to Detroit for the centennial anniversary. Alumni Steve Yzerman was the one guy that sat me down and said, just shut the fuck up. Just shut the fuck up and play. And he doesn't do that with a lot of people. He certainly didn't then as a player. And on one hand, I can say I should have listened to him. I would have had a better hockey career.

[A]

Well, you sustained a career from not shutting the fuck up.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But that means that one of the goats believed in your skills. Yes, that's. That's kind of dope.

[B]

Of course. And. And. And he would say that I probably left a lot on the table as far as playing wise.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Now, the other side of it is that I think I was, like, more an entertainer than. Than a player.

[A]

And that's. I mean, like, we'll get to it. Because I want to say this, what I've heard first, but, like, that's an interesting thought to be like. Well, this is. I mean, you're an actor now.

[B]

I mean, like, no, no, but that. That's the same thing. It's.

[A]

I'm telling a story exactly like what I've got. I talked to, like, an NHL insider. He said your skill set would apply better to a modern NBA or NHL.

[B]

Oh, I'd be a. I'd be a gamer right now because, like, I'd be. I Would dominate because I could skate.

[A]

And also the. It was you being undersized. You're a great skater. And then also, like, the psychological elements of the game have actually, it's kind of a coveted, like a GM will seek out. Like, we're going to play out.

[B]

There's not many of these guys left. Yes.

[A]

And from what I understand, like, the Panthers are kind of like Avery type of team.

[B]

Sam Bennett, they have multiple Avery esque players. I mean, better than Avery, but, like, they have some of my.

[A]

They wear the, like the evil empire kind of.

[B]

They do, yes.

[A]

They're like, sorry, a little dynasty situation.

[B]

Yes. And I love watching them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I wish. And I'm very critical of the Rangers, and I wish we had players in New York City that played a little bit like some of those fucking guys in Florida.

[A]

Yeah. In a. In the tree of, like, of your profile in the NHL as agitator, like, who do you see as your OGs?

[B]

Oh, God. OGs. A lot of my peers. This guy Steve Ott, who I played with in Dallas, who's now assistant coach in St. Louis, was a complete animal. He would decimate your entire bloodline if he could, if he had enough time. And he was savage. You know, Tiger Williams was this guy that. That played back in the day. They. And Eddie, Shaq, it was like, clear the track, here comes Shaq. There's been some. Kenny Lindsman, the rat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Kenny Lindsman was my dad's favorite player. He played for the Bruins. Yeah, they called him. He was the original rat. Yeah. So I always loved. Yeah. I, you know, Dougie Gilmore to a certain extent, but was a little bit more skilled. He was a Toronto Maple Leaf.

[A]

And did you conceive of what you were doing as, like, playing at the heel, like, in, like, professional?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

You're like Eddie Guerrero almost.

[B]

Yeah. And. And Ronda Rousey. I think she's gonna come back as a heel.

[A]

Is she?

[B]

I think to the ufc. Yeah.

[A]

Kind of what you were doing by being a fancy boy is like you were doing a little bit of gold dust, too, Right.

[B]

I was inflaming.

[A]

You're like, acting like a little bit. A little bit spicy, right?

[B]

Yeah. But I was also the first person that brought. I mean, I brought Andre Leon Talley to a Ranger game.

[A]

Who's that?

[B]

He was a giant, gay, black fashion man who worked under Anna Wintour for a long time at Vogue. Legendary.

[A]

Trying to distract the guys.

[B]

Well, kind of, yeah. Yeah, maybe.

[A]

Am I correct to say the NHL is the only North American sport that has never had an out gay player.

[B]

Well, because we're the only sport. Yeah. That. Outside of ufc. Like, we fight. And I still think there's that.

[A]

That macho.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And I've played with gay players.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

I. I bet. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

That was. I gave you an opportunity to. To. You could have came at me on that one. Well, like, what. How do you know they were gay?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

No, you would ask me that. How do you know they were implying that I had, like, sexual relations with some of my gay teammates.

[A]

You. Your guys.

[B]

No, see, that's what I'm saying. I was already way ahead of. I was already playing the bit.

[A]

I helped them come out of the closet or, like, was it. Was it.

[B]

No, I was trying. Oh, you. Are you doing it? That was good.

[A]

In terms of, like, you playing the heel and like, you. What? Like your kind of. And you realizing that your entire 13 years was a type of performance. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well said then, like, most of the times you got in trouble from what I saw.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Was it actually, like, you were doing a dirty hit on the ice? It wasn't like you were trying to, like, you could give a guy a spinal injury. It was a talk of the press. Right.

[B]

I said the sloppy seconds thing, which

[A]

was why it's not. It's nothing in 2025 is nothing in the NBA. There's like, six girls that they all have sex with.

[B]

No, but. But it was a. It was a crass and. And it was.

[A]

That, to me, just seemed like Gary Bedman was, like, just sick of you. Right.

[B]

Gary wanted to send a message that

[A]

was like, you do. This is the last straw.

[B]

Again, well said. Yes, yes.

[A]

But, like. But the problem. What I saw was, like, going Back to Connor McDavid. Love him. We love. But, like, you know, I was not. You're gonna give them an interview. Right. The rest of the guys are gonna be like, well, you gotta plea. You got three periods.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We are for the puck with the puck drops.

[B]

Yeah. Hockey players have been conditioned to be some of the worst soundbites of all time.

[A]

And you're like. You're giving them, like. So the media is like, you're feeding to some extent. You're like.

[B]

You're one of my great quotes to the media. And this sort of ties into, like, what I was doing. I was on the back page of the Post when Spitzer went in this. I got pulled into the space.

[A]

Oh, you got Client nine.

[B]

I got pulled in.

[A]

Really?

[B]

And the back cover was the Ranger and the madam. Because somebody said that I was in the book.

[A]

Oh, were you?

[B]

I walked in. So when I got to the rink that day and the horde of reporters, I said, guys, anytime that I've ever been to a whorehouse, I did. I didn't use my real name.

[A]

And they loved it.

[B]

And that was it.

[A]

And they loved it.

[B]

And that was. It was done.

[A]

But, like, they're not gonna get that out of these, like, these, like, guys from.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Saskatchewan.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

They're like, they're. And so, to some extent, you were giving the NHL headlines. You were actually doing something for the

[B]

league on a national level. Yeah. More than some of the stars in the league, for sure.

[A]

I think nowadays it would be conceived in a different way, I think, because nowadays we understand that what you're doing is you're effectively doing PR for the league and you're making it more popular.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, you know, Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce are a great example of what. Of, you know, what white nationalism

[A]

of,

[B]

like, what we want to see from our athletes.

[A]

Perfect Aryan sculpture.

[B]

So when I was doing it, it was like, oh, he. Look at this guy. He's dating. He's like. He's dating fancy. He's dating famous girls. It was sort of weird.

[A]

That's bad.

[B]

And the guy before me.

[A]

Hot girls is bad.

[B]

Well, it's. It's an old boys club, and it's a very traditional, like.

[A]

Like the shower. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, the shower.

[A]

Yeah, like the shower. So it's 95% gay. Yeah. You're, like, one of the only guys that gets pussy. And now you're getting. You got judged for it. You got suspended for getting pussy.

[B]

Yeah. Essentially. Right.

[A]

You decide. You announced you wanted to be a Shakespearean actor. You retired.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You. And then, like, you. You've pursued creative. Like, you've been doing something from eight. So, like, when did you retire?

[B]

I was 33, maybe.

[A]

So it's one thing your whole life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And like, when I was watching that Devil's Rangers series. That's this war.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're a fucking war.

[B]

I think. I think what happened was I was burnt out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I was tired of being chased. You know, Gary was up my. The league. There was always something, like, when I think back to Yzerman saying, just shut the fuck up. It was too late at that point.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There had been so much heat and, like, it was. It was. You had a career waiting for you,

[A]

probably as a result of, like.

[B]

Well. Well, I played it. I played long enough that I. That I said, if I don't do it now and I stay, you know, then they pull you back in. Now I'm 40 when I'm done, and I know I want to do something else. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I got to do it now while I'm young and energized and like. And thank God that. Yeah, thank God that I. I'd have more money now, I guess.

[A]

You know, you're competing against other dudes your whole life, right? Like. Like, how do they replace that? Right? Dude, it's like doing, like, beautiful, gorgeous paintings and like, you know, reading beautiful books.

[B]

Well, I don't.

[A]

Well, those guys are like. Are they gambling? Are they, like.

[B]

You know, it gets dark.

[A]

Yeah, it gets dark.

[B]

Gets dark.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Get started.

[A]

Is there a support network, like, for. For the la.

[B]

I think it's getting better for the boys.

[A]

Like the players association.

[B]

I think it's getting better. Yeah. You know, we have great medical. So, yes, they're in much better situations than the average person, but they're also dealing with like, fuck, it's pretty dark. It's dark because you don't know, like, you don't know anything. You've only done one thing.

[A]

Well, you're trying to kill another guy your whole life, and then you're like, now you're like, at the. What? Like, you're just.

[B]

You're just a regular guy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It gets dark and you got to figure out how to time is your enemy when you stop playing.

[A]

You punched a cop, right?

[B]

Oh, and in la. Yeah.

[A]

Well, no, they tifa Antifa style. They said you defunded the police.

[B]

They said that? No, they tried to come in the. This was in Laurel Canyon too, by the way, which is fabulous. You know, very hippity dippity. Right. Earthy. Yeah. They had a LAPD helicopter on top of the house telling me to surrender. And then I think I was on the back page of the Post for that. The piggies. Because I was.

[A]

Whatever. All I'm saying is this.

[B]

Is that.

[A]

No, you're transitioning into a real life. It must be hard not to punch every cop you see. You're like a Vigo in History of Violence.

[B]

Yes. Yeah, I couldn't. Or Fight Club or, you know, I couldn't go to work. I couldn't work in a regular atmosphere. When you come from an atmosphere where you're allowed to fight your co worker as. As a. As a positive step to then go into the public sector and what. What. I mean, I don't know, work for Fanduel or even at FanDuel. I'm sure there would be issues.

[A]

I would punch.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. So do you feel like you got out of the shit? You're like, you got out of nom.

[B]

I got it. And you needed. And you needed some time. And I was. I was always.

[A]

It has to be a transition.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Because my job, like I said in the book, I felt like a protector. So taking out my flamethrower, I would say was. I was being. It was a precautionary step. I didn't look at it as, like, I was. I was just making sure everything was cool.

[A]

Right. Because, like, the best player on one team, like, Sidney Crosby's gotten in one fight. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. So. Because there's a. Because there's a knight like you, and he's like, oh, thank you.

[B]

Like, who, like, comes in and handles it. So the transition takes, you know, it takes a while.

[A]

Chivalrous.

[B]

It's. It takes a while.

[A]

Was it. Was there another guy where the two of you were like, we love fighting each other on another team. It's kind of romantic.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Me and Darcy Tucker did.

[A]

Yeah. Usually great ones.

[B]

Yeah. And I love them.

[A]

And you high five afterwards.

[B]

You're like, no, no, But. And you know what's interesting? It's so crazy because Darcy Tucker married one of his teammates. Sisters. That was something that I would approach.

[A]

Oh, so you chirp that.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

Well, I would tell the teammate that. That Darcy is dicking her so good.

[B]

That's what I would. I would. I kept it away.

[A]

And then Darcy would come in and

[B]

say he would defend his brother in law if his brother in law didn't snap. Darcy was coming over the top to defend his honor. So it was a win. Win.

[A]

Family stuff worked best. What worked best?

[B]

I mean, sisters, you would get. The wires would get crossed if you get. If the sisters.

[A]

Your sister. I'd be like, she's great and you're great. I would love it.

[B]

Right?

[A]

I would love. I give you my blessing.

[B]

Right. But that's the.

[A]

I'm Joe sacking.

[B]

That's like Joe's mom.

[A]

I love that for you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that. That was. That was a. Anything. Ex girlfriend.

[A]

Ex girlfriend.

[B]

Ex girlfriend.

[A]

Because she's such a.

[B]

Who cares? Well, because she's now dating.

[A]

That's what my teammate. But that's what a bro goes to. Through. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You had sex before me?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The fundamentals.

[A]

Let's get. So how the fuck. You're about to be your third Christopher Nolan.

[B]

Okay. When I was done playing, I did Dancing with the Stars.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And one of the producers on Dancing with the Stars husband is a guy by the name of John Papsidera, who I think is a hockey name. Well, no, he's a casting director.

[A]

I know, but it sounds like a hockey.

[B]

Yeah, it does. Like, yeah, Papsidera.

[A]

He used to hit, like.

[B]

Like a truck.

[A]

Like a truck.

[B]

So, because I did Dancing with the Stars, a few years later, my buddy Pete Berg put me in a movie called Patriots Day. I'd never been on a movie set. Yes.

[A]

I saw it in a hotel once,

[B]

and I took the train up to Boston. And the combination of those two events, because once I did the thing in Boston with Pete, I go, that's the closest thing I've ever felt to fighting at center ice in Madison Square Garden. I'm on set, there's 200 people, all of a sudden they go, action. And it's like, you're acting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So because I did Dancing with the Stars and now did this Berg movie, now I get connected to John Papsadera, who has a history of casting and breaking. Like, he likes interesting dudes.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he puts me in. Tenet was the first one. And I did six weeks on Tenet, the last final sequence, when all the shits were blowing the shit up. Yes. Inverted.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Inverted ordinances and all that.

[A]

I got that movie easy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, you did? Really? It took me, like, 14 times with the subtitles on and I was in the movie to figure it out.

[A]

Yeah, but you should have asked while you're there.

[B]

I. I've. I've.

[A]

You should be like, what the fuck is this?

[B]

Then I did Oppenheimer and I auditioned for these roles. Yeah. I do the thing, the sides, the tape. And I don't know what happened at that point, but, like, much like my hockey career, I had a couple of mentors. Like, geez, that guided me that. That, like, liked what was going on. And I guess I just finished doing the Odyssey, and. And so that's my third one. And now I'm a, you know, a working actor. Like, I. I'll go. I'll go anywhere.

[A]

Is he, like, a general on set? How's he. How's he running that show?

[B]

Oh, he's like.

[A]

He's like. He's like Patton or something. That's what I imagine.

[B]

He's so good. He is. He's so good.

[A]

How's he. He doesn't lose his cool, I imagine.

[B]

No, no. I mean, I don't he's like. He's like firing on a different wavelength. He's like. He's like Shohei, right? He. He sees everything happen before it happens. Or also, you know, just trusts the beauty of creativity and hires the best people and lets them paint inside structure, inside fucking like reality. Because that's the other thing. He builds reality. I mean. Yeah.

[A]

And he also does everything in cameras.

[B]

Everything. Yeah, the whole thing with like a fucking imax.

[A]

Like.

[B]

Yeah, we were in. We were just all over the world.

[A]

So he's basically like Scotty, right?

[B]

He's like.

[A]

He's the Scotty of movies.

[B]

He's the Scotty Bowman. Yeah, the Scotty Bowman of movies.

[A]

Really?

[B]

He is.

[A]

When you saw Wait.

[B]

Because I once sat in a sauna with Scotty Bowman.

[A]

Really? What was it? What do you look like?

[B]

He had a towel just under his.

[A]

I would imagine so.

[B]

Right up to the right.

[A]

Right up to.

[B]

Right up to the top. Okay. So he looked like he was in fighting shape.

[A]

Did you see him this weekend?

[B]

I hope to God I do. I hope to God because, you know, I was a kid and insane when I met him.

[A]

He'd be a bad boy. And he.

[B]

He sat and he talked to me about he. My dad and my dad being a teacher and what high school. He would always talk about things that had nothing to do with what I think he was trying to get you to understand really in a very beautiful way.

[A]

He like guide you and I think

[B]

that that's how I would the comparison. Chris.

[A]

That was a good pull.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. Like in the ether in terms of like direct.

[A]

So he was directing you to some Scotty Boba?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That is one of the dopest things I've ever heard.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I love it when sports stuff is expressed that way.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, like in a different. Wow. Yeah, I love sports. Dude, you should. Are we going to go to games together?

[B]

Yes. Can we go? Yeah. Are we boys? I think so, yeah.

[A]

Can I just close.

[B]

I didn't know how this was going to go, by the way.

[A]

No, no, I'm. I'm a. I'm a great. I'm just great to be around.

[B]

What camp did you go to?

[A]

Jews.

[B]

No, I know which one my doneik. Where.

[A]

I think it was in southern Germany or Poland.

[B]

I forgot.

[A]

Where was my Donnic?

[B]

Wow. Not.

[A]

I want to ask you one last question. Do you think a girlfriend will ever like, like respect you if she doesn't feel like you could have. If you could kill her with your bare hands? No.

[B]

Yeah. You're Right.

[A]

So that really.

[B]

That's always. That you want to do it always in the back of her head.

[A]

Just that you want to like.

[B]

And you know, when I see that situation and if a guy can't, I have compassion for her because I know she's totally not fulfilled because she doesn't feel safe.

[A]

What do you mean? There's other types of.

[B]

Which is why I come back to it. Yeah. And you know what?

[A]

Kill.

[B]

We're going to grapple right now. No, don't stand up so everybody can see that.

[A]

5, 10. 5, 10. And he went league, too. Everyone. John Avery, Great.

[B]

Sa. Thanks for watching like.

[A]

And subscribe.