RITCHIE TORRES Talks Zionism, LGBT, The Bronx

Summary

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The Adam Friedland Show

Episode: RITCHIE TORRES Talks Zionism, LGBT, The Bronx

August 28, 2025

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Overview

This episode of The Adam Friedland Show features a deeply personal and, at times, emotionally charged conversation between host Adam Friedland and Congressman Ritchie Torres (NY-15), covering Torres’s inspiring life story, his views on public service, identity, challenges facing the Bronx, his approach to being an openly gay Black and Latino lawmaker, and an intense exchange on Israel, Zionism, and the current crisis in Gaza. The episode is distinctly different in tone from typical installments, with Adam frequently expressing discomfort at the challenging subject matter while still seeking insight from Torres.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ritchie Torres: Background and Upbringing

• Inspiration and Background: Adam introduces Torres as someone whose life is “like a movie”—from public housing and a single mother to the first openly gay Black man in Congress ([01:06]-[02:19]).
  • Quote: "He came back from a mental health crisis and became...a member of Congress. It's kind of like a movie." – Adam [01:06]
• Discusses growing up in public housing, raised in poverty, and the unique challenges that shaped his ambitions.
  • Grew up in the Bronx, in the Throgs Neck Houses, near what was once the Trump Golf Course [13:13].
  • “I grew up poor.” – Torres [21:46]
  • Lived without heat, in “molded” and “leaking conditions” ([23:46])
  • Torres’ mother’s lesson: “Never forget where you came from.” ([25:08])

2. Torres’ Path: Mental Health, Coming Out, and Public Service

• Mental Health Struggles: Torres recounts being hospitalized for depression in college; therapy and medication helped him rebuild his life ([20:41]).
  • “I had a severe struggle with depression...dropped out of college, thought of committing suicide...and it just gave me a fighting chance to rebuild my life.” – Torres [20:41]
• Coming Out: Realized he was gay in middle school, came out gradually, and chose to run as an openly LGBTQ candidate at age 24 ([18:06]–[18:30]).
  • Growing up in a "machismo environment" made coming out more difficult ([18:06]).
  • Inspiration from meeting an openly gay teacher on MySpace ([19:04]).
• Public Service Motivation: His entry into politics was driven by a desire to improve public housing, reflecting his roots and lived experiences ([22:44]-[24:11]).
  • Sees himself as a representative for the Bronx first and foremost ([25:02]).

3. Reflections on Governance and the State of Congress

• Congress as Both "Bright" and "Absurd": Torres praises the variety and learning opportunities but notes “the problem with DC isn’t that it’s corrupt, it’s that it’s stupid. There’s just so much absurdity” ([12:12]).
• The Unpopularity of Congress: Briefly discuss polling data (Gallup), likening Congress’s popularity to “colonoscopies, cockroaches, and Ebola” and joking about it ([31:31]–[32:04]).
  • “We are more, we’re less popular than colonoscopies.” – Torres [31:31]
• Perpetual Fundraising: Torres laments the need for constant campaigning and fundraising due to short House terms and money in politics ([38:06]–[38:50]).
  • “Fundraising sucks...it’s nauseating to ask people for money.” – Torres [38:37]

4. LGBTQ Representation and Identity

• Torres describes his identity as complex (“too many identities...first Latino and Black gay, gay, gay, gay...”) and jokes about the growing LGBTQ caucus ([16:24], [17:06]).
  • “The LGBTQ caucus is the only caucus that can expand without winning an election. We just have to take members out of the closet.” – Torres [16:57]

5. Challenges in the Bronx & Representation

• The Bronx is “the forgotten city of New York,” with severe poverty, housing crisis, and a large percentage of residents relying on Medicaid/SNAP ([24:11]-[24:33]).
• Describes himself as committed to ensuring government works for ordinary Bronx residents.

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Zionism, Israel, and Gaza: A Tense, Emotional Exchange

Setting the Stage ([41:26] and onward):

Adam shifts to “the fiercest champion of the state of Israel in Congress”—a label Torres does not embrace for himself. The exchange quickly becomes pointed and personal, with Adam grappling earnestly with his own Jewish identity, the meaning of Zionism, and the current horror in Gaza.

Torres on Israel:

• First foreign trip ever was to Israel (2015), which he describes as “life changing” for its complexity and emotional impact ([42:44]-[44:53]).
  • “I left Israel with an empathy for the unique security situation that Israel faces.” – Torres [44:53]
  • He relates his experience in the Bronx (threat of bullets) to Israeli civilian stress over rocket fire.
• Firmly supports a two-state solution and envisions “the coexistence of both” [45:24].

On Campus Antisemitism & Protests

• Cites incidents at CUNY Hillel, threats, harassment, and broader atmosphere of intimidation for pro-Israel or visibly Jewish students ([45:47]-[47:08]).
  • “Harassing people simply for being pro-Israel Jews, to me is wrong.” – Torres [46:35]
• Adam pushes for more substantive examples, relating his own and others’ experiences with antisemitism.

Explosive Exchange: Jewish Identity, Gaza, and American Jewish Pain

• Adam shares the pain of seeing fellow Jews under harsh criticism, the horror of what’s occurring in Gaza, and expresses his own sense of shame, fear, and anguish ([49:47]-[54:17]).
  • “It hurts to say that a Jew could do that. It hurts because we grew up with learning about what hatred is...this feels like a stain on our history.” – Adam [51:29]
• Tension escalates over whether criticism of Israel excuses antisemitism, if government policy is a fair target, and how the US supports Israel ([49:35]-[51:40]).
• Torres rejects the notion that Israeli actions justify antisemitism, insists there is no justification at all ([49:33]–[49:43]).
  • “My view is no justification for antisemitism.” – Torres [49:43]
• Adam presses Torres: “You keep telling me the problem is someone is getting yelled at at a restaurant. I’m sorry.” ([53:00])

October 7th, Hamas, and Deep Disagreement

• Torres insists war began with Hamas’s October 7th attacks ([54:55]), Adam points to 17 years of Gaza blockade and daily indignity.
  • “Hamas murdered and maimed and mutilated and abducted and tortured thousands of people. That’s not television. That’s a fact.” – Torres [55:16]
  • Adam: “If you were born in a place and there’s a fence there and there’s a guy with a gun...sometimes they’re going to lash out.” [55:27]
• Adam questions Israeli government policy—“why would Bibi Netanyahu give Hamas bags of cash through the Qataris?” ([56:25]-[57:08])
  • Torres acknowledges, “That was a failure. There’s no question.” [57:08]
• Adam argues that US-Israel policy looks like “the Jews run the government,” but the real problem is the influence of special interests and cash. Torres points the finger at Republican intransigence on gun reform ([57:57]-[58:07]).
• Adam: “I’m blaming our government for supporting a genocide. But it is unfathomable in my heart, and it breaks my heart that we could be capable of it.” ([58:27])
  • Torres: “I think we should move on.” ([58:37])
• They debate “from the river to the sea,” demographic realities, reparations, and what a path forward might look like ([60:21]-[63:13]).

General Mood and Memorable Exchanges

• Adam expresses regret and emotional exhaustion multiple times—“I hate this. This is so embarrassing.” ([65:07])
• Torres: “It’s just been a gotcha interview.” ([65:02])
• Adam: “I think that my conscience is clear, especially as someone that’s lived there and seen it and love people that live there. And this sucks. I really didn’t want to do this...this is what people are talking about right now.” ([65:07]-[65:26])
• Torres: “Not in the South Bronx. People are not talking about Israel. People are talking about how to put food on the table and pay the bills.” ([65:33])

End of the Interview

• The conversation winds down with both men expressing exhaustion, disappointment, and frustration, reflecting on the tension between the realities of local politics, American Jewry, and global conflict.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Adam: “The most important lesson my mother taught me is never forget where you came from...I probably will die in the Bronx.” [25:08]
• Torres: “Congress is the best university in the world.” [09:48]
• Adam: “We are more, we’re less popular than colonoscopies.” [31:31]
• Torres: “The LGBTQ caucus is the only caucus that can expand without winning an election. We just have to take members out of the closet.” [17:06]
• Adam (on October 7): “For the last 17 years, people have been under a blockade...If you treat people like animals, sometimes they’re going to lash out.” [55:27]
• Torres: “My view is no justification for antisemitism.” [49:43]
• Adam: “This feels like a stain on our history, and it feels like it’s changed what being Jewish is.” [53:14]
• Torres: “People are not talking about Israel [in the Bronx]. People are talking about how to put food on the table and pay the bills.” [65:33]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic Description | |----------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:06–02:19 | Adam introduces Torres and his background | | 04:13–11:05 | Early life, growing up in Bronx, family, ambitions, wrestling fandom | | 11:05–13:22 | Law team, discovery of public speaking, public housing upbringing | | 20:23–21:20 | Mental health struggles, hospitalization, recovery, entry to public office | | 22:44–25:25 | His reasons for entering politics, NYCHA, housing crisis, Bronx focus | | 29:58–32:04 | Bronx politics, Democratic losses, Congress unpopularity | | 38:06–39:12 | Campaigning cycles, endless fundraising, impact of Citizens United | | 41:26–45:47 | First visit to Israel, empathy for Israeli civilians, two-state solution | | 45:47–47:45 | Campus antisemitism, examples and counter-examples, Proud Boys, atmosphere on campuses | | 49:01–54:17 | Adam’s emotional experience as a Jewish American, Israel, Gaza, shame, and generational trauma | | 54:55–57:08 | October 7th, Hamas, blockade, Israeli/US responsibility | | 60:21–63:13 | Democracy in Israel/Palestine, truth & reconciliation, reparations | | 65:07–66:10 | Exhaustion, frustration, mutual apology | | 67:09–68:11 | Final words—mutual disappointment/clarification, Jewish visibility in America |

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Summary: Style and Tone

The episode is raw, emotional, and at times combative, reflecting Adam Friedland’s struggle to reconcile personal pain and political realities, and Torres’s attempts to hold ground as both a government official and a person with lived experience. Jokes and asides lighten the tone, but the conversation routinely veers into intense, vulnerable territory—especially around Israel, antisemitism, and the war in Gaza. Neither participant walks away feeling resolved, but the episode offers a rare, unvarnished look at what it’s like to confront the most difficult, divisive questions for American Jews, progressives, and policymakers today.

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For listeners interested in:

• New York and Bronx political issues
• The lived experience of LGBTQ and minority politicians
• Personal testimony about mental health and coming out
• Deep, often uncomfortable questioning of American support for Israel and intra-Jewish debate about Zionism
• The real tension between local and global priorities for a progressive Congressman

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

I'm sorry, dude. You're bummed. Your consultants told you not to do it. This, I like this guy a lot, too. I'm sorry. I, I, I, I appreciate your time. Listen, I don't, I don't get to talk to someone in the government that's, that's taking part in these big decisions

[A]

like this, and, well, only one of 535.

[B]

So which one is, Would like me? Virginia Fox?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Do you have her number?

[A]

I don't have her number. No. All right.

[B]

Welcome to the Adam Friedland Show. I'm Adam Freeland. As always, thank you to our members and our patrons, the people that support our show. If you'd like to support our show, there's a link in the description of this video below to become a member, which gives you early access to all of our episodes. And, and there's also a link if you prefer to use Patreon in the description as well. And as always, guys, there are two additional tiers for those of you who'd like to get your name in the credits. This week, my guest was Richie Torres From New York's 15th district in the House of Representatives. I'd heard of Representative Torres, but before I researched for this episode, I'd never heard of his backstory. And frankly, it's kind of inspirational. I mean, he grew up in public housing, single mother, a minimum wage. He realized he was gay in elementary school. He attempted to take his own life in college, and he came back from a mental health crisis and became a member of the New York City Council and a member of the United States House of Representatives. He's the first gay black man in Congress. I mean, it's kind of like a movie.

[A]

I.

[B]

This is like a. I don't know what this is. It's kind of like it becomes, it's a. It was unexpected. Representative Torres is, has been referred to as Israel's loudest advocate in the House of Representatives. And when, prior to this interview, I wanted to have a conversation that didn't resemble like a point counterpoint, you know, just screaming match like we see online all the time. I wanted to try and get something different. And to be honest with you, when I expressed, I became emotional and it fell off the rails. And I wasn't able, as an interviewer to get it back on the rails. I mean, there were, like, multiple topics that we didn't cover at the end. Frankly, it was exhausting for both of us. Yeah. If they felt like it was a gotcha and I'm an Activist. You know, this is how this conversation goes nowadays. And so while I didn't get what I was initially, you know, looking for, I kind of still feel like it's important. I stand by what I said. And even if I'm like, being. My voice is high. Don't like. I mean, I think it's important to say what I said in the interview. And so I don't know what it is. I mean, at a certain point, I don't even know if it's an interview. But I hope you, you know, make it what you will. And, you know, next week we're going to have like, really, it's going to be so funny. But this one, I think is going to be a different tone and, you know, enjoy. Ladies and gentlemen, Congressman from New York in the US House of Representatives, Richie Torres. Everyone make some noise. I can't. Hello.

[A]

What's going on?

[B]

Hello. Well, I got two issues. First of all, you. Your district is Yankee Stadium. That is one of your. That's one of your.

[A]

I represent Yankee Stadium.

[B]

Yeah. And I asked you how the Yanks were and you were like, I'm not. You didn't.

[A]

So I love the Yankees, but I'm not a. I'm not a huge baseball fan. You just turned and I'm not going to pretend to be a baseball fan.

[B]

What about the zoo?

[A]

I love the Bronx Zoo.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Botanical Gardens.

[B]

Do you consider the animals your constituents?

[A]

I consider the Bronx Zoo indistinguishable from the United States Congress, yeah.

[B]

Oh, does that crush, like, if you say it to another guy in Congress?

[A]

It crushes nowhere. Cause I, you know, if I were actually, if I had any comedic talent, I probably wouldn't be in Congress.

[B]

What do you mean you want to be a stand up.

[A]

You know, when I was a kid, I was a fan. Not a baseball, but professional wrestling.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. I was a huge fan of the attitude era. So I started watching in 1998. We had it so Stone Cold Steve Austin, the Rock. I thought that was golden age mankind.

[B]

Yeah, so was I. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And I did a huge rock impersonation when I was a kid. Like, I was. I used to.

[B]

I, like knew of you as a congressman, but I didn't know your backstory. And I mean, God damn.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I mean, it's an incredibly inspirational story that you have.

[A]

And unlike Joyce Santos, I have a true story that you.

[B]

That's your op.

[A]

I have. I have no onlyfans account, but I do have a actual.

[B]

Did he have an onlyfans?

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

In Congress.

[A]

I'M not sure if he had it, but certainly it was generating income.

[B]

He would have been the first. I mean, who knows?

[A]

I mean, I'm not closely following the OnlyFans accounts of every member of Congress.

[B]

I can't stand this guy.

[A]

No, just, you know, just. I wanna.

[B]

Do you miss him? He's pretty funny.

[A]

You know, he was a source of comedic enjoyment.

[B]

Yeah, his tweet right before jail was amazing. He's like, the curtain closes like the, you know, she walks off stage. He was a. He was a real ham, George. Yeah. Yeah, but he was a. He was a complete fraud, right?

[A]

Total fraud. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, because he bought, like, Birkin bags with campaign funds.

[A]

Well, also, he fabricated every aspect of his biography. It was not like he told one lie here or there. It was like the whole story was a complete fabrication.

[B]

I feel like in this day and age, that's kind of like. That's part of. That's in play. I feel like you could do it.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's.

[A]

I've never.

[B]

I feel like it's such a chaotic time. Like. Yeah, like, I went to Harvard Law School and I. I used to be the. The coolest guy in my school. And I'm. I'm also Brazilian and Jewish and. What did he say?

[A]

No, he said that his. You know, he had. His. His parents were Holocaust survivors.

[B]

I like that.

[A]

Ukrainian. Because of the war in Ukraine.

[B]

He was also Ukraine.

[A]

And he had, you know, he was friends who died in the mass shooting in Orlando.

[B]

He's amazing.

[A]

He, like, incorporated every current event into his life story.

[B]

Pathological liars are great, but he took it all the way to the freaking. To the show.

[A]

Although I, you know, he inspired me to introduce a bill. I think it's the greatest acronym in the history of the Santos Act.

[B]

And what was it?

[A]

Stop Another non truthful office seeker Santos.

[B]

Am I sensing that there's Santos Act? That the two of you guys as like, young New York gay, like, Latino congressman. He's naturally like your foil. He's your Darth Vader.

[A]

Let's assume, like, after he was expelled from Congress, I became the most prominent Jewish, gay, Latino congressman from New York. How's that?

[B]

You're Jewish.

[A]

No, I'm Jewish.

[B]

You're Jewish. Oh, come on. I wouldn't wish this upon my greatest enemy. You don't want the. You don't want any part of this.

[A]

My brother, you never heard this comment? He's Jewish, not Jewish.

[B]

Yeah, I've heard a lot of people say that, but you don't.

[A]

I'm just no, but he invented the term about you.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

He invented the term about himself.

[B]

It's just a word with it. Yeah. About him.

[A]

When he was confronted, you know. Why did you lie about being Jewish? He said, I never said I was Jewish. I said I was Jewish.

[B]

I would say that I'm.

[A]

That I'm. You're actually Jewish?

[B]

Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough. Yeah. I can't quit.

[A]

No.

[B]

I wrote a letter to Bibi and they reject it. They don't let you out. It's like the mafia, you know that, you know, you join is when you're a baby.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Your parents have a party, and then this, like, old wizard walks in, and then he pulls your. Your. Your diaper off. Yeah. And then your whole family looks at your beautiful baby penis. And then he cuts the. The part that, I guess gives one pleasure later on in life and during sex and. And then there's, like a deli tray there and stuff. That's. That's how you join the club. Yeah, but we've been doing it for a while, though. I don't know. I don't mind it. You really did like my crude humor.

[A]

I mean, you've endured for thousands of years, so something's going right.

[B]

We're. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. It's the. It's definitely the wizard and the baby's penis part.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, yeah, I know I'm. I'm being crude with a member of the. Of the legislature.

[A]

These are important decisions that parents have to make.

[B]

Rude is that we're in an era where, like, talking to someone in the legislative branch is. It's a privilege because it's so fucking crazy.

[A]

The privilege is mine. You're the one with the massive following and audience. You were in the New Yorker. You know, I know that because you told me, not because I read the profile. But you told me you were in the New Yorker. Congratulations on the profile. You know you would be considered young in the United States Congress.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I've only been able to be.

[A]

My dating profile says I'm congressionally young. Congressionally young, Congressionally attractive. Just in case you're disappointed.

[B]

That gets. That gets some action.

[A]

Is it A plus? It's not clear. It's not clear.

[B]

It has to be.

[A]

I mean, I work seven days a week, so that is a crowding out effect.

[B]

But. Yeah. And you're with the worst people on earth. Well, what are you. What are you doing to yourself? It must be tough.

[A]

Yeah. One of my colleagues said to me that Congress is The best university in the world, really. And because you just have access to some of the brightest minds, you can learn a tremendous amount.

[B]

They're the smartest guys.

[A]

Some of the. Yeah, yeah, we certainly have access.

[B]

It's like the Sorbonne or something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In Congress. How boring is it like to be in the government? Sometimes. What's the most boring part of it?

[A]

I mean, I love it. You love it because of the variety.

[B]

You like parliamentary procedures.

[A]

I feel like no position has more variety than a House member, because one day you get to be local, state, national, and international at the same time. So one day I'm receiving a pothole. A complaint about a pothole on Fordham Road or pressuring the mayor to crack down on an open air drug market in the South Bronx.

[B]

And next day, Congress about that.

[A]

And then the next day I'm receiving, like, a briefing from the CIA about rising tensions between the United States and China.

[B]

So what do you do about the pothole in DC, though? I'm just sorry.

[A]

I use my platform to pressure the mayor to solve problems. Or the governor. Adams.

[B]

Yeah, let me. Can I guess who you were in school growing up?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

You were like. Were you student government?

[A]

No, not studio governor.

[B]

You were like a debate club or.

[A]

I was the captain of the law team.

[B]

Law team. Oh, so you wanted to be a lawyer.

[A]

Yeah, I had dreams of becoming either a lawyer or a teacher.

[B]

So you did mock trial, right?

[A]

I did moot court and mock trial, but I was the mat. I was like a master of moot court.

[B]

And what did you like? You liked, like the Atticus Finch style, like, closing argument.

[A]

So that's more. That was mock trial?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Moot court is modeled after the Supreme Court or an appellate court. So you deliver an argument before panel of judges who interrupt you with questions, speeches.

[B]

The one that's less like.

[A]

No, because it teaches you to think on your feet. Yeah, it's less. It's less theatrical, so.

[B]

But that was your prep for the game.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You went to the show.

[A]

It was the first time when I discovered I had a talent for public speaking. Or I thought I had a talent

[B]

for John, early on, you grew up in a single mother home. You have a twin brother.

[A]

Twin brother?

[B]

Identical.

[A]

He's biologically older. I'm temperamentally older.

[B]

Identical or.

[A]

No, fraternal. We're fake twins.

[B]

That's all right.

[A]

Five minutes apart.

[B]

I was on a date once with a girl who told me, first date, she said, I have an identical twin. As I can't do it. How about I can't tell her Secrets she has. Her brain is connected to some other. Another one of her. Yeah. You can't trust these.

[A]

It's funny. When I was a kid, that's a prejudice of mine, People would ask me, where's your father? I'm like, we're fraternal twins, not Siamese twins. Like, I don't know his whereabouts at every moment.

[B]

But you're good at D.C. right?

[A]

I'm learning D.C. you're still learning. Yeah, of course. I've only been there for three terms. It's the most complicated legislature on Earth. No one's gonna master it in three terms. The problem with DC Is not that it's corrupt. The problem with DC Is that it's stupid. There's just so much absurdity in D.C.

[B]

i thought you said it's the smartest place in the world.

[A]

You have access to some of the brightest minds. So, like, if you. If you want to learn more about artificial intelligence or quantum computing or energy, you can reach out to some of the best minds.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. You call any CEO right now.

[A]

But calls up, right up, people generally will take your. I'm not calling now. So, you know, I don't know. I don't know.

[B]

Your voice is up. He said, I'm not calling him now. You have his number?

[A]

Well, I don't know.

[B]

So. Never met him. What CEO is your best friend?

[A]

What's the best one mention? Who's my best friend?

[B]

Yeah. How many CEO friends do you have?

[A]

I don't have many CEO friends.

[B]

Well, you said you could call anyone on the phone at any time.

[A]

If I. If I. If I had a question about, like, AI policy, I probably could get a meeting with a CEO. Yeah, that's true of any member of Congress.

[B]

Yeah. Did you grow up in the District you represent?

[A]

My father's from this. From Mott Haven. I'm from Throgs Neck Houses, So I grew up in a public housing development in Throgs Neck Houses, right across the street from what was formerly Trump Golf Course.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I kid you not, as the golf course was undergoing construction, it unleashed a skunk infestation. So I tell people I've been project. So I tell people I've been smelling the stench of Donald Trump long before he became president, but there was. It was infested with skunks.

[B]

What's. Like, you grew up in New York

[A]

City, so born and raised in the Bronx.

[B]

Our president is an outer borough New Yorker, effectively from Queens. Right. He wants to present that he's a. That he's like Mr. Like, Goldman Sachs. But really, he's a New York City real estate guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is that correct?

[A]

He was never respected in the real estate industry. He was known to, like, rip off his contractors and he was seen as a joke within the industry.

[B]

Yeah. He. He figured out that if you keep someone in a lawsuit, he was more.

[A]

He was more known for his self promotion and marketing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Than he was for his actual effectiveness in real estate.

[B]

Yeah. Have you ever. What. Have your interactions been with the President?

[A]

No interactions. You've never met him? Have no desire to meet him.

[B]

Let's practice it right now.

[A]

Feel like he's the worst person on earth.

[B]

You don't want to meet him. Was. You're in the government, though. You got to meet the president.

[A]

He's the devil.

[B]

He's the devil. Yeah. You got to say. You got to have a good burn for the. For the President. Let's practice. Trump. What's up, Trump? Nice to meet you. Yeah, that's your. No, you. You just bombed.

[A]

So what should I do?

[B]

Like that, with some weird smile, I'm

[A]

gonna shake Donald Trump's hand.

[B]

Yeah. You have to say, like, you're. You've. You're. You're doing like the, like the Holocaust right now in this country. Like, you're. You have to say, like, you're ruining this country right now. Like, seriously, why don't you say something like that? An. You've said the Marines.

[A]

Okay, well, we'll practice. Okay.

[B]

Okay. Go ahead.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Let's get it. Let's. Come on, dude.

[A]

Mr. President.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How are you? I'm looking for. Hopefully you can release those files.

[B]

The ep that's your. No, come on, dude. First of all, you guys already lost on Epstein.

[A]

You think we lost on ep?

[B]

You guys lost.

[A]

He's obviously in the files.

[B]

Well, half of the files is your guys, too. Right. You know, but half the files is your guys, too, so that's why you guys didn't do this.

[A]

My view is release the files and let the dice fall where they may. Huh? Huh?

[B]

You guys lost on Epstein. Why do we lose his crappy excuse? Like, everyone. His whole base doesn't really care.

[A]

Yeah, they moved on.

[B]

What we found is that they actually don't care. Maggot didn't really care. Yeah. Yeah. You guys really are having a rough one right now, I think.

[A]

What's your advice for us?

[B]

I don't know. I mean, you're the. You're. You're one of the guys, so I'll tell you what I. I'm seeing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. I really wanted to give you your whole story about where you want me

[A]

to tell my story?

[B]

No, no, no, because I want to talk about this.

[A]

Okay. You clearly don't want to hear my stories.

[B]

I've been trying to toss it to your story, which is fucking. That's a Hallmark movie. We'd open this up like, this guy's a. You're the first black gay guy to be in the government. Gay guy, gay man to be in the government. Gay gay guy is. You can't say that to a first

[A]

Latino and black gay member of Congress.

[B]

First Latino, black, gay, gay, gay, gay. It doesn't roll off the tongue, that one.

[A]

Yeah. Too many identities.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. First black president. Obama crushed it with that one. Yeah. First Latino and black gay, gay.

[A]

Once you have a first black president, everything else becomes less impressive.

[B]

How many LGBT members of Congress are there?

[A]

There are quite a few. Like, more than 10.

[B]

More than 10, yeah. And there's a hundred Senate. How many House?

[A]

435.

[B]

435.

[A]

So 535 in total.

[B]

Are there any. No Republicans. Right.

[A]

Who are openly lgbtq? Oh, you're saying none of them.

[B]

You're spilling the tea right now.

[A]

Well, my. My running joke is the LGBTQ caucus is the only caucus that can expand without winning an election. We just have to take members out of the closet.

[B]

Would you do that as you were in the closet, your life? Right. Like, what's. What are the ethics there? It's really interesting because, like, would I out members? If you see a closet gay Republican, like, advocating for something that is.

[A]

Would I out him?

[B]

Well, it's. It's advocate for, like, taking away gay marriage or something. Like what. What's the rule there? Because you were in the closet yourself as a young man, and it's a painful thing, I would imagine.

[A]

Yeah. No, you have to go through the. Yeah, it's a process.

[B]

You found out in middle school.

[A]

I realized that I was a gay in middle school. When was it?

[B]

Titanic. Leo DiCaprio. No, I didn't realize at all when

[A]

I was Leonardo DiCaprio.

[B]

What? How was it? What was it?

[A]

I forget exactly how I realized, but.

[B]

You forgot. No, you don't forget. You gotta have a better story. You're a politician. Titanic, Leonardo.

[A]

I'm not often asked about my coming out story in the Bronx, so why not?

[B]

It's an interesting story. Right. And like, you're. You're Puerto Rican. Was. You were afraid of experiencing homophobia in your community or.

[A]

I grew up in the project, so it's a machismo. Environment.

[B]

And what about in your family? Was there, like, when did you come out to that?

[A]

16.

[B]

16.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And was that when you came out?

[A]

No. Then? Then I came out gradually over time, and then when I ran for office when I was 24, decided to be out to everyone to run as an openly LGBTQ candidate. But that was back in 2000, when

[B]

you were at school and stuff. You didn't tell people that you were gay?

[A]

Yeah, I was telling more and more people over time.

[B]

I thought you were at an assembly or something.

[A]

Yes, I was at a debate competition where I said I was a gay American.

[B]

So that's coming out.

[A]

Isn't that like a Jim McGreevey moment, though? Remember, he said, as a gay American.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Gave this speech. That's such a dated.

[B]

You're a kid coming out of the closet. Don't diminish that experience.

[A]

Yeah, it was back in.

[B]

No, that's your story. Why. Why would you say that? It was just a debate competition. It has to be scary.

[A]

No, I agree. It was terrifying.

[B]

What led you to do it at debate?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

It felt. It just felt. You know, it's interesting.

[B]

Did you see something that you were like?

[A]

Yeah, So I was. I was browsing through MySpace and I ran into the profile of a teacher who. Who identified as gay. And it was the first time I knew of a person in my social universe who was openly lgbtq. And so I approached him.

[B]

And your social universe, you chilled with

[A]

your teachers or people in the world I knew.

[B]

I guess you were.

[A]

You were adults and not socialized by teachers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No. So it was the first adult or a person that was openly gay.

[A]

Yeah, in my. Yeah. Because I grew up in a world where no one was openly gay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I just spontaneously came out. It was the first time I ever had acknowledged my sexuality to someone.

[B]

Do you feel like sharing your story, like, and making it all the way to Congress, that has to be an inspiration to people that grew up in a place like that? No. That must feel good.

[A]

No, it does.

[B]

So why are you diminishing it?

[A]

I'm not diminishing it, but I feel

[B]

you should be proud of that. I was in the New Yorker yesterday. You were.

[A]

I was in the New Yorker as well, back in 2016.

[B]

Oh, okay. Well, I was in it yesterday, so both of us are probably the same. Same.

[A]

But you're at a much higher level than I am, so.

[B]

No, you were 2016. You were a Bernie doll.

[A]

Yeah, I was 2016.

[B]

So wait, so go back to that because it's. It's interesting to me. So, like, you had this mental health crisis in college, Right. And did it stem. It stemmed from being gay? Is that what it was?

[A]

Not only from my. I mean, I had a sexual identity, but I had a severe struggle with depression.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which began in high school, but then became worse in college. And I dropped out of college and at some point, even thought of committing suicide. Underwent hospitalization. Felt as if the world around me had collapsed. But then I began, like, taking an antidepressant, going through psychotherapy, and it just gave me a fighting chance to rebuild my life. So after a few years of hospitalization, I rebuilt my life and became the youngest elected official in America's largest city. I ran for the council and then ultimately ran for the United States Congress, and here I am.

[B]

And it was a few years that you were going through that. Yeah, yeah. And so. And what did you do once you got out? How did you restart your life?

[A]

Well, instead of going back to school, I went into politics. So I was a housing organizer. I was a housing organizer for a New York City Council member. And then I ran for public office myself.

[B]

I would have moved to, like, France or something.

[A]

I couldn't afford to. I couldn't afford to move to France.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I grew up poor.

[B]

You could figure it out. You get a ticket, you get to France. I don't know. You busk. Do you know the guitar? No. You get a guitar. Put those. I don't know. Obviously, to run for office, you have to have a call to public service. You guys all say that, but, like, you have to have a ambition, like, as well. Right. There has to be part of it. Right. Like, I want to do, I think,

[A]

an ambition to make a difference.

[B]

Yeah, but you. You want to be. I want to be the president, you know, Come on.

[A]

I have no desire to be president.

[B]

Is your ambition purely just to make a difference? I mean, it's a very abstract term to.

[A]

My dream, my goal is to be the best elected official I can be and then let the rest take care of itself.

[B]

That doesn't work for me.

[A]

Works for me.

[B]

You could say, like, I want to. Like, I want to make sure that.

[A]

I mean, I would love to be.

[B]

Say a better thing. Like, I want to make sure the kids in my neighborhood could, like, you know, have a better life or something. Say, the best that you could be is so abstract. You could. You could vote for anything.

[A]

No, I mean, I can tell you why I rented a public office, which is what it was really about. Public housing. So, you know, born and raised in the Bronx, spent most of my life in poverty and raised by a single mother. He raised three of us on minimum wage, which in the 1990s was $4.25 an hour. It's ridiculous, but the most formative experience of my life was growing up in public housing. And in New York City, there's an institution known as the New York City Housing Authority, nycha, which manages the largest stock of public housing in the country. It houses about a half a million people, and it's been so chronically underfunded by the federal government that it has a capital need of $80 billion in county.

[B]

And is that issue something that affects your constituents? Because you represent the poorest district and

[A]

I represent one of the largest concentrations of public housing in the country. And so you have, like, asthmatics who are struggling to breathe in their homes.

[B]

You live in the face of safe circumstances as well, right? Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I grew up without heat and hot water, molded conditions, leaking conditions like these conditions, you know, the living conditions of public housing have become a humanitarian crisis. And I think, I think, you know, if, if NYCHA were a city unto itself, it would be the largest city of low income black and brown Americans in the United States. And it's the forgotten city of New York.

[B]

In representing the poorest district in America, one of the smallest districts too, right?

[A]

The most contiguous and compact district. Yeah. And it was even more so before redistricting.

[B]

And you have a third of your district lives under the poverty line, is that correct?

[A]

It's the lowest income district. About a third of the district is enrolled in SNAP. 70% is enrolled in Medicaid.

[B]

A third of them, about a third are born in other countries. Is that correct?

[A]

Significant immigrant population. Yeah.

[B]

What is the mandate that you have in D.C. representing those people?

[A]

It's to make government work for the Bronx to protect critical programs like Medicaid, snap, Medicare, Social Security.

[B]

Is that what you carry with you when you're in Congress? Is that what you consider when you're like in a committee hearing or something?

[A]

Everything should be centered around the Bronx.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And for me, the Bronx is not only where I live, it's who I am.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I tell my constituents, even when I leave the Bronx for Washington D.C. the Bronx never leaves me. The most important lesson my mother taught me is never forget where you came from. And I'm from the Bronx and I lived in the Bronx my whole life, and I probably will die in the Bronx.

[B]

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[A]

Yeah, one of the largest. In 2012, Barack Obama won 96% of the vote in New York, 15 in the Bronx. Flash forward to the 2024 election. There's a more than 22 point swing toward Donald Trump.

[B]

Why is the Democratic Party losing the most vulnerable people in America then? What do you attribute that?

[A]

Well, the Democratic Party is hemorrhaging support among working class people of color throughout the country.

[B]

Why is that?

[A]

You know, Occam's Fraser holds the simplest explanation is almost always the best. The simple explanation is inflation and immigration. Yeah, we had the highest inflation in more than four decades. So if you're paying double or triple the cost for groceries and gasoline, you're going to lash out at those in power, at the establishment.

[B]

You say that the incumbency is just bound to lose that election.

[A]

Biden, if the incumbency is perceived as failing, yes.

[B]

Was there a way to win that election against Trump? If inflation is so bad, is it impossible to win that election?

[A]

The odds were stacked against us because inflation and the mismanagement of the migrant crisis. But, you know, if we had the benefit of a full primary process and if we had a stronger general election candidate, maybe we could have won. But I don't know for sure. But Donald Trump is a fatally flawed candidate, so maybe we could have won.

[B]

You're a member of the least popular Congress probably of our lifetime.

[A]

I think we are. Probably. We are more. We're less popular than colonoscopies.

[B]

It sucks, dude. Yeah. Does it suck to be.

[A]

I think there was polling that said we're more popular than cockroaches, but we're less and more popular. More popular than Ebola.

[B]

You guys are losing Hamas for sure.

[A]

Yeah, well, you guys are getting crushed by Hamas. Might be more popular in college campuses than Congress.

[B]

Okay, okay. Anyway, but I. I looked at a Gallup poll the other day. Dude, this is. I was actually started laughing. You just have to laugh at this. You guys are 23 right now. That's pretty. That's not bad.

[A]

Higher than I thought.

[B]

It's high.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You guys, what is this? Oh, my God. May 2024.

[A]

13 means we have room for growth.

[B]

13, that's you and the Republicans. 13.

[A]

Well, the institution at large.

[B]

13 is you. Poop your pants in front of the whole school. February 2024, 12%.

[A]

Yeah. So it sounds like what was happening that month. If Congress were not. If Congress were a woman, you probably wouldn't go on a date with her. Is that why she's unpopular?

[B]

No. She could be, like, beautiful, you know, like. What do you mean?

[A]

No, you seem to hate Congress, so

[B]

I'm saying everyone does, right? I'm looking at the Gallup poll.

[A]

Are you part of the 13% that approves or.

[B]

I think that we have to recognize the Runway a little bit. And what got us here, maybe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, seeing the Marine Corps entering the second largest city in America and seeing the most vulnerable people in society just taken away from their children and kidnapped. And there are facilities in our country right now surrounded by alligators. There are facilities where there are cages with human beings in them who have not been afforded any due process. And the sad thing is that you guys are. You're polling behind Donald Trump right now,

[A]

and that's not true.

[B]

The Democratic Party has lower approval ratings than Donald Trump.

[A]

I think the story's more complicated there.

[B]

What is that?

[A]

Yeah. So the latest polling from CNN shows That the most important issue to Americans is inflation, the cost of living. Uh huh. And on the most important issue, Donald Trump is 25 points underwater. And since the November election there's been a 34 point swing against him. And that we as Democrats are more trusted on inflation than he is. That's a huge swing.

[B]

Why are you guys not killing him right now? That is a cherry pick. Come on. You know, that's a, that's a. I mean, that's.

[A]

Inflation is the most. Inflation is the most important issue.

[B]

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[A]

After you win an election, you start immediately. Yeah, it's like you're in a constant state of campaigning.

[B]

Is campaigning and going to fundraisers doing all this stuff, is that a distraction from the work that you have to do?

[A]

It can, but. But I feel like if you're effective at governing, then it improves your ability to get reelected. So if you're. If you're a good congressman. Yeah. You're going to be popular in your district and you're going to be well positioned to be reelected.

[B]

Does it suck that you have to fundraise? Right.

[A]

It sucks. Fundraising sucks.

[B]

Yeah. And like, because of Citizens United, like,

[A]

it's nauseated to ask people for money.

[B]

Yeah. Do you feel like it's eroded people's, like, faith in the institution? Right.

[A]

I feel like too much money is. Too much time is spent on fundraising. Especially if you're a frontline member who has a fiercely contested general election every two years where tens of millions of dollars are spent. You could be spending more than half your time every week at a banquet. No. Or just call time. Just dialing for dollars.

[B]

You were criticized, I saw, for Blackstone donation. Right. And it's understood that they are the architects of the housing prices. Pretty much, yeah.

[A]

I mean, there. I mean, you receive contributions from thousands of people. Yeah. Or employees from all over the place.

[B]

You just send it back, say, fuck off.

[A]

Yeah, I'm not.

[B]

So they're giving you a check just

[A]

because I decide issues on the merits. I don't know what others do, but I decide issues on the merits.

[B]

So it's a just cause check. Just cause they're just giving you money just because they think you're nice.

[A]

I'm pretty sure that even there are lefty candidates who have gotten money from people who are employed. Yeah. Rank and file employee is sure.

[B]

I figured, like, it. You could maybe. If you're like this guy, you do

[A]

know that, you know, this guy's making

[B]

my constituents lives worse. You could, you could be like, fuck you. I don't want it. I live. I'm in a safe blue district.

[A]

Right. People should judge me by my record. So, yeah, the legislation I pass.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I work seven days a week visible in my district. I'm on the ground. I'm happy to. If you ever want to take tours of my district, I'm happy to walk you through my district.

[B]

Yeah, I like to. I mean, I've been to the zoo in Yankee City. Right.

[A]

Well, not the actual projects, not the amenities, not the institutions.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I can give you a sense of racially concentrated poverty in a place like the Bronx.

[B]

So that's what my question is.

[A]

Where do you live? Which borough?

[B]

I live in Brooklyn. Yeah. And that's my question.

[A]

So you might be divorced from the experience of racially concentrated poverty, but what

[B]

does that have to do with taking money from blacks? Like, I just feel like that's a deflection. Well, I think, and I don't want to, I don't want to cut like an argument right now.

[A]

If you, I don't argue. If you want to question my ability to represent my district, I'm happy to show you what I do. I'm happy to bring you to my district, what I'm calling and introduce you to my constituents.

[B]

What I'm calling in question is the institution. Right. I'm calling into question the system. And you're functioning within a system. Right.

[A]

I've received contributions from tens of thousands of people. I can't keep track of every person. I'm not responsible for every person.

[B]

You forgot.

[A]

I'm only responsible for what I do.

[B]

Okay, so, so you, so, I mean,

[A]

you can, you know, you, you can play the gotcha game, but that's not,

[B]

I'm not trying to play the game. I think you're used to like Anderson Cooper360, and I'm a guy. I'm from Cumbtown podcast.

[A]

I'm happy to answer whatever question you have.

[B]

Well, yeah, whatever. Here's, here's a question for you. I think, like, I think you've established yourself as the fiercest champion of the state of Israel in Congress.

[A]

I've never described myself in those terms. I'm pro Israel, but those are terms.

[B]

Well, I think maybe you've been dubbed that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay, listen, I'm a Jewish person. I have my own opinions on this. You have your own opinions, and this is a really frustrating conversation to see people have on the Internet. I don't get an opportunity to talk to someone that's making decisions and supporting these things that are a huge deal to people right now. One thing that I thought was interesting, and I want to start with you, is that you described your first trip to Israel in 2015 as a life changing experience. And I just wanted just to follow the narrative of you growing up and your struggles and then going into the government. What is, what was that experience like and what, what bred that passion for Israel in you?

[A]

Well, since I grew up poor, my whole life, I never had an opportunity to travel abroad. Yeah, the first time I ever free trip went to a foreign country, so

[B]

it was life changing. Because you went on a trip.

[A]

Part of the reason, went abroad for the first time. Life changing. But also, you know, when you go to, when you experience the complexity of Israel, you go to the old city.

[B]

What did you see? Like, what did you witness?

[A]

Like, well, go to the old city.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I've been there.

[A]

Yad Vashem, which is The Holocaust museum.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Go to the Masada where, you know Jews.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Mass suicide to escape and slavery.

[B]

I've hiked up Masada.

[A]

The Gaza envelope.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Went to state road, spoke to the local mayor who said that you went to Gaza. I did not go to Gaza. No.

[B]

Would you say Gaza envelope?

[A]

No. Gaza envelope. Which is, which is. Which is right on the border with. It's Israel, but it's right at the border with Gaza.

[B]

It's right next to the fence.

[A]

Yeah. It's in the proximity to what.

[B]

What's it, what's at the Gaza envelope? Like I've never heard that.

[A]

Stay.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Stay road.

[B]

Stay road. Yeah. With the rockets. Yeah.

[A]

Going.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. How far is. They wrote from Gaza? It's like a mile or something.

[A]

Yeah. Within a mile.

[B]

Yeah. It's right next to it.

[A]

Yeah. Striking proximity, this small place. Yeah.

[B]

The whole thing. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, that's why Hamas was able to so easily penetrate on October 7th the.

[B]

By getting over the fence.

[A]

Yeah. And it's so close.

[B]

Yeah. No, I mean, I just want to know because it seems like it was powerful and it seems like it's informed your record and I. That's what's interesting to me. It's like your story and how you got here. And like, I think it's narratively what fascinates.

[A]

Maybe one day you'll give me a chance to tell it.

[B]

So why are you annoyed by this question?

[A]

Kidding. I'm kidding. So I spoke to a local mayor of state.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he said to me that the majority of his children struggle with post traumatic stress because families like his live under the throat threat of relentless rocket fire. And I remember seeing these bus stops doubling as bomb shelters. You know, I come from the Bronx where people live in fear of bullets and guns. But, you know, we in America do not worry about Canada and Mexico firing rockets into American homes and communities. You know, we're a country of 330 million people, we're surrounded by oceans, and Israel's a tiny democracy the size of New Jersey that's literally surrounded by both state and non state actors that are intent on wiping it off the map. So, you know, I left Israel with an empathy for the unique security situation that Israel faces.

[B]

Did you visit the occupied territories while you were there?

[A]

I went into the. Not Gaza, but I went to the Palestinian. Ramallah.

[B]

Yeah. Ramallah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what, what did you see when you were there?

[A]

We spoke to Palestinians who obviously have a much more critical view of. Of Israel. And.

[B]

And that didn't resonate as much as like what, what was your takeaway from hearing?

[A]

Look, I, I hearing the mayor stay

[B]

road his, his children have ptsd and then this guy's like, Israel's screwing with me.

[A]

Well, look, I'm in favor of a two state solution.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I feel like the just outcome lies not in the existence of a Jewish state to the exclusion of a Palestinian state or the existence of a Palestinian state to the exclusion of a Jewish state. It's the coexistence of both. So I think I want to see the struggle, both the Israeli and the Palestinian struggle for self determination to be reconciled in the form of a two state solution.

[B]

A big topic nowadays is campus anti Semitism. You've spoken out against it. I just want to know what you identify as the examples of this type of anti Semitism in elite academic institutions.

[A]

Yeah, so there were students at a CUNY halal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where you had a violent, what I thought was an aggressive mob following them to a kosher restaurant in the heart of New York City.

[B]

And what were they doing, the mob? What was the mob doing?

[A]

Just following them and then barricaded the restaurant. And you're like chanting, hurled insults at the patrons and slamming the windows. You know, much of it is captured in video footage. You know, harassing people simply for being pro Israel Jews, to me is wrong.

[B]

Is there any other examples? Like, there's a restaurant. I mean, it's just like all we're hearing about is campus anti Semitism. Radical, radical. Like, is there a link between Hamas and the protests? Like, is that established?

[A]

There are students who have faced harassment and intimidation because of their beliefs. There are students who feel inhibited from expressing their Jewish or Zionist identity because of the atmosphere of intimidation or harassment on college campuses. You should speak to those. Are you denying that there's any campus anti Semitism or.

[B]

I. Well, I'll give you an example. I know a younger person that went to UCLA and was attacked and is Jewish. It was with a group of Jewish people at a protest and they were attacked by the Proud Boys.

[A]

Okay, that's anti Semitic. That's an anti Semitic incident.

[B]

No, but the Proud Boys were there for Israel and those are the guys that did charge.

[A]

Proud Boys are there for Israel?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think the Proud Boys is like white nationalists and white supremacists. I'm telling you right now we're anti Israel.

[B]

But okay, listen, I'm like a comedian, right? Like, I hate when comedians, especially on the Internet, like, speak from a position of authority with like, about crap that they don't know about. You know, this is one topic I feel like I can speak on and it.

[A]

On college campus. Antisemitism.

[B]

No, on anti Semitism in general.

[A]

Because you haven't been in college how long? Probably two decades. Right.

[B]

I'm telling you my experience of anti Semitism the last two years. But the last two years have felt different in America. And I don't know if you've been on Twitter recently. Now a ton of people are questioning the validity of the Holocaust having happened.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Can you tell me with a straight face, Those are the 18 year old kids at Columbia that are doing that?

[A]

The 18 year old kids at Columbia.

[B]

Are they doing those posts about the Holocaust never having existed? You know who's doing it?

[A]

No, we disagree here.

[B]

You think that it's the.

[A]

So I didn't. Don't put words in my mouth.

[B]

It's people of the right. Let me tell you.

[A]

You're suggesting that there's. You're suggesting. You're suggesting there's no one on the far left that denies the Holocaust or downplays the Holocaust. That's an absurd.

[B]

What are you. You're doing moot court right now? I'm telling you what it's like to be Jew. My experience being Jewish.

[A]

But there are others who have a different perspective.

[B]

I'm trying to see. You're. Why. Why is one better than the other? Why is one more important than the other? I'm trying to share with you. You're in the government. I don't get a chance to talk. Okay. I think hatred of Jewish people has exploded in this country. And I don't think it's. I think it's because it's of our support of what looks to be an absolute brutality. And I think that you think that's

[A]

a justification for anti Semitism.

[B]

Here's the thing.

[A]

You think Israeli government policies are justification for anti Semitism. My view is no justification for anti Semitism. I think that there's zero justification for anti Semitism.

[B]

Okay, you're deflecting again.

[A]

I'm not deflecting. That's my position.

[B]

What does it look like to have a flag with a Jewish star and I'm Jewish and for kids to be starving right now. And why is my government. I don't want to do this fight. Let's not do like a yelling at each other thing. I really. Just for me. It's for me. I had the experience of.

[A]

It just sounds like you're justifying anti Semitism which making me feel.

[B]

Are you crazy right now?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Why would I do that? You're telling. You're doing the I'm Hamas thing.

[A]

I'm not saying you're Hamas, but I'm not. I think there should be different.

[B]

We'll do a different tactic.

[A]

The Israeli government policy should have no bearing on. If you have disagreements with the Israeli government, you should voice your criticism of the Israeli government. But there is no justification for intimidation or harassment against American Jews.

[B]

I'm telling you as a Jew right now that we are receiving a lot more hate because of what the people with a flag that has a Jewish star on are doing to other people right now. And I'm telling you as a Jewish person, how painful it is for us to say, and it hurts my stomach to say this, and you're going to say I just reacted, that this is a genocide. And that hurts to say that a Jew could do that. It hurts because we grew up with learning about what hatred is. We grew up learning about this. And the same year the state of Israel was established in 1948, the world saw the Holocaust, and they established standards for what a genocide is. It was the same year. And the world said that this shouldn't be a thing that happens. And I would just wonder, like, it doesn't make sense to me. Like what? Like, I don't know. It doesn't track to me why there's this fixation with kids at a school and two examples of people at a restaurant that there was banging.

[A]

Two examples. I mean, there are. There are surveys on it.

[B]

Give me the.

[A]

Read the ADL surveys on it.

[B]

Because it's hard for me to talk about this in public. You're being a dick. That's mean.

[A]

No, no, I'm not being mean.

[B]

That's clear.

[A]

It's an emotional topic.

[B]

All right, I'll share with you what happened.

[A]

I'm not with.

[B]

I lived there. I don't intend to be mean, sir. I lived there when I was 18, and I grew up in Zionist. And we were told, and our whole community in this country is told, that we have to defend Israel and love Israel, because it'll stop at the Holocaust. It will stop another Holocaust from happening. And my parents. My dad was born in 1951. That was six years after these atrocities. His friends, parents. He knew these people that had been through this hell, these skeletons. And it terrified us. And the understanding in our community is that we have to defend Israel. But I lived there, and I went to settlement at the end of my year there, and I looked down a hill at a Palestinian village and I saw how they lived. And I turned back and I looked at the settlement and saw how they lived. And people live in a. In a world where they're demeaned and dehumanized and surveilled constantly by people in. And this isn't in Gaza. By people in SWAT team outfits with. With semi automatic weapons. And that's what the world is seeing. And you keep telling me that the problem is someone's getting yelled at at a restaurant. I'm sorry.

[A]

You're conflating two different issues.

[B]

Please, just. Please. Me saying this to you right now will hurt people in my own family. Okay? Because. Because this is a very important thing to us. And the fact that I still fucking care about being Jewish is embarrassing. I should just be a guy. But. But it. But this is. Feels like a stain on our history, and it feels like it's changed what being Jewish is, because what being Jewish is, isn't Israel. Judaism has existed for 4,000 years. This is a country for 75 years. You know, like, it is the oldest, one of the oldest monotheistic religions. Anti Semitism is one of the oldest forms of hatred. People in my life are going to be mad at me about this, but. But I'm saying this because I am Jewish, you know, And I don't understand why you would be.

[A]

Look how you define. I feel like I'm here to be lectured, not shut up.

[B]

That's not nice. You can't talk that way. Why are one set of Jews but more poor than others?

[A]

No one's saying anything.

[B]

What happened? You went to the beach in Israel. What? You went to a restaurant or something? A nice restaurant.

[A]

Like, listen, never even been to the Tel Aviv Pride parade.

[B]

This is the year 2025. The world is seeing something that looks terrible and it's being done in my name, and I don't know what to do.

[A]

But the war began on October 7th.

[B]

No, it didn't.

[A]

Yes, it did. Yes. When Hamas systematically murdered and made. You can, you know, you want. You want. Okay, look, we're going down a rabbit hole. We fundamentally disagree. But Hamas murdered and maimed and mutilated and abducted and tortured thousands of people. That's not television. That's a fact. That's reality. You can deny it.

[B]

You can downplay October 7th.

[A]

Well, you seem to be.

[B]

October 7th you're doing. I'm pro Hamas.

[A]

I never said you were pro Hamas. You're putting words in my mouth. It is, but you seem to be downplaying it there.

[B]

For the last 17 years, people have been under a blockade where they cannot Leave. If you were born in a place and there's a fence there and there's a guy with a gun on the other side and he says you can't go anywhere, would you like that guy? If you treat people like animals, sometimes they're gonna lash out.

[A]

Look, I sincerely believe, maybe I'm wrong, that if Palestinians were governed not by a terrorist organization like Hamas and Gaza, but by a regime that was able and willing to make peace with Israel, the situation would be fundamentally different.

[B]

The preconditions for this happening are undeniably something that the Israeli government was fully aware of. Why would Bibi Netanyahu. Okay, here's the question.

[A]

Do you think October 7th was justified?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay, I'm happy you said that.

[B]

Are you listening to what I'm saying right now?

[A]

I'm listening to what you're saying.

[B]

Why would the Israeli government, Hamas wants to eradicate the Jewish people and the Jewish state, Is that right?

[A]

That's what Hamas has said? Yeah.

[B]

Okay, then why would they directly give Hamas money, literally bags of cash in suitcases, through the Qataris? Billion, nearly, I think over a billion dollars in cash during this last 17 years.

[A]

That's a fair point. It's a great question.

[B]

If one of those kids at Columbia wrote a five dollar check to Hamas, you'd say send them to Gitmo for being a terrorist.

[A]

It's a fair point.

[B]

Does that make Benjamin Netanyahu a terrorist? He's supporting terror.

[A]

The United States. It seems to me the United States and Israel could have shut off the spigot and did not do so. I don't know why. But, but that was a failure. There's no question.

[B]

I, I, I think that what, what I see is the reason why our government provides $25 billion to something that looks this horrific to people. I think is the same reason. I think it makes it look like there's, that the Jews control the government. But really what it is is the more boring answer. It's the reason why the government and you guys don't get shit done. It's the reason why Sandy Hook could happen. You guys can't do gun reform. It's because.

[A]

Why can't we do gun reform?

[B]

Because, because special interest groups can buy influence in our government.

[A]

Which political parties against gun reform?

[B]

The NRA has a power.

[A]

It's the Republican Party.

[B]

We allow government, our government to be flooded with cash and money. And it's what's scary to me is that it looks that people are starting to question the Holocaust ever happening. How could Jews maybe They invented the Holocaust.

[A]

You're blaming, you're blaming Israel for Holocaust denial.

[B]

I'm blaming our. I'm blaming our government for supporting a genocide. But it is unfathomable in my heart, and it breaks my heart that we could be capable of it.

[A]

I think we should move on.

[B]

Why is that?

[A]

We just fundamentally disagree.

[B]

So I don't think that. I think I'm talking to you, like about where I come from and that it feels different. And maybe I have a different perspective.

[A]

You have a different perspective, but I know people have a perspective that's different from yours.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With a much smaller platform than you.

[B]

I'm not. I hate this conversation.

[A]

I know.

[B]

You know, I have it with my family. You know, it's. It's not something. And I love my family.

[A]

If it were up to me, we would not be having this because we're speaking a foreign language.

[B]

My family grew up in South Africa, right. We were like Jews from Eastern Europe that literally, we thought we were going to Ellis Island. My grandma, all the grannies stayed, and my parents, whole generation of South African Jews left. And when I was a kid, like growing up, I used to write all my who's my hero essays on Nelson Mandela. And he was like a hero of mine, right? And he was also in prison, you know, for terrorism too. I don't want to get it. You're going to go, Hamas is what I don't want. I'm not debating Hamas. He was called that. And, and he went to my synagogue after he got out of prison, Madiba. And he. And he spoke to like all the grandmas who like, were still there. They didn't have to fucking move because black people could vote. And he said, tell your kids to come back because we need them to build our country. I don't know. I think that. I don't see what's wrong with people being afforded the right to vote.

[A]

Do you think that's what Hamas means when it says free Palestine from the river to the sea.

[B]

To me, it seems like maybe if there's a recognition that people were cleared off their land in 1948.

[A]

But there are those, and there are those who only want a Jewish state, and there are those who only want a Palestinian state that they could fuck off. And we should be advocating for the coexistence of Jewish state and the Palestinian state. I continue to believe the two state solution ultimately is the inevitable path forward. That is my.

[B]

It's stupid.

[A]

There were a thousand Jews who were murdered before the establishment of Israel, like half a century before the establishment of Israel. Half is a thousand Jews.

[B]

Yeah. They were killing each other. Jews and Palestinians. Yeah.

[A]

A Hebron massacre.

[B]

It doesn't make sense to me, this in 2025.

[A]

The only point was there was violence against Jews before the establishment of the state of Israel.

[B]

There was violence against Palestinians, and there was an ethnic cleansing in 1948.

[A]

I mean, the Hebron massacre.

[B]

What are you talking about? Right now you're in the government. Listen, I did want to argue.

[A]

I'm sorry, you're not familiar with the Hebron massacre in 1929?

[B]

Well, you're saying that that justifies an entire ethnic cleansing in 1948?

[A]

Israel was a. Whoa, this is such a.

[B]

This is even a good argument.

[A]

Hold on. Israel?

[B]

What are you talking about?

[A]

I didn't realize we were debating.

[B]

I don't want to do it. But you say so.

[A]

The Jewish state was established by international law. Right? The UN passed a resolution that recognized the establishment of a Jewish state. And there were a number of Arab countries, including Egypt, that declared war on Israel. There was a war of independence, and Israel won the war.

[B]

The Palestinians didn't declare war on them. There were just people that were living there, and they were kicked off their land.

[A]

By the way, there were 800,000 Jews that were ethnically cleansed from the Arab world. Do you know there were Jews? You know how many Jews there are?

[B]

Not many Palestinians.

[A]

I'm not talking about the Palestinians. I'm talking about the broader Arab world.

[B]

So why do the Palestinians have to bear the responsibility of the Algerians kicking the Jews out?

[A]

You can relive.

[B]

Why do the Palestinians bear the responsibility of Egypt invading Israel?

[A]

Israel's been a state for 77 years, bro.

[B]

It's so depressing.

[A]

So you're proposing to undo an established state?

[B]

No, I know people that live there. I have family that live there.

[A]

I don't think that they should be. Then what are you proposing?

[B]

I'm proposing a democracy. I'm proposing an extensive demographic study of what was taken and what was lost, extensive reparations for what was taken, and a truth and reconciliation process where we could end this shit. What we're seeing right now is that members of the Israeli government are talking about clearing that shit out. And Trump, our president, is talking about putting a fucking jet Ski museum there. And you're. That's the reality.

[A]

The far right. Yes, that's the view that I reject. So what?

[B]

The far right. I'm talking about the government and the generals that are in charge of Israel.

[A]

The Ben Gavirs, the small troops of the world.

[B]

That's a view of the cabinet.

[A]

Yes, and I reject them.

[B]

That's what Hamas is saying they want to do to Israel.

[A]

I'm sorry, I mean, Hamas murdered. I mean, Hamas murdered thousands of people. So there's no.

[B]

So what does that mean?

[A]

That Hamas is a terrorist organization for murdering innocent children and civilians. Civilians.

[B]

How many civilians have been killed in this war?

[A]

The war is a tragedy, but 90%

[B]

of them have been. 90% of them have been suggesting that.

[A]

You're suggesting they've killed journalists.

[B]

They've killed journalists.

[A]

People have been killed in a war. It's been a tragedy.

[B]

They've killed people waiting for aid.

[A]

But you're suggesting that. That it is the policy of the Israeli government to murder civilians. And that is a notion that I reject.

[B]

You gotta, like, listen, man. You gotta be like a human being about this.

[A]

People who are dying in the war, which to me is a tragedy, because war is a tragedy.

[B]

Do you feel in your heart that this is what you're. What you're saying is right.

[A]

If Hamas. If you remove Hamas from. Don't actually think I told you what I believe. Don't tell me what I believe. I've told you what I believe.

[B]

Why would you believe that?

[A]

Because I. Because there are people who see the world differently. I know it's a shock to you, but. There are people who see the world differently, but why? I know that's a shock to you.

[B]

Like, it seems a little bit like

[A]

the humanitarian crisis has deteriorated.

[B]

I don't want to be disrespectful like this, but like it.

[A]

You've been at various points.

[B]

In what capacity?

[A]

You've just been hostile.

[B]

In what capacity?

[A]

It's fine.

[B]

Door.

[A]

It's just been a gotcha interview.

[B]

I think that my conscience is clear, especially as someone that's lived there and seen it and love people that live there. And this sucks. I really didn't want to do this, and I think that you saw it as gotcha. Well, this is what people are talking about right now.

[A]

I get. Well, not in. Not in the South Bronx. People are not talking about Israel. People are talking about how to put food on the table and pay the bills. Maybe in your world that's what people are talking about, but in my world, people are struggling. Yeah.

[B]

Then why, if people are struggling in your world, are you paying $25 billion?

[A]

We have a seven. We have a seven billion dollar. We have a $7 trillion budget in the federal government. Yeah, right. Less than.

[B]

So it's not that much money.

[A]

Less than 1%.

[B]

So as little money went to Israel?

[A]

In the grand scheme of the federal budget, yes. It's minuscule.

[B]

I'm sorry, dude. You're bummed your consultants told you not to do it. I like this guy a lot, too. I hate this. This is so embarrassing.

[A]

I don't have anything to hide. I'm willing to go anywhere.

[B]

No, man, I'm sorry. I appreciate your time. Listen, having this opportunity for me is a big deal. I don't. I don't get to talk to someone in the government that's. That's taking part of these big decisions like this, and I.

[A]

Well, only one of 535.

[B]

So I'll talk to another one. Which one is. Would like me, Virginia Fox?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Do you have her number?

[A]

I don't have her number, no.

[B]

All right, I appreciate. I feel like you're mad at me or something. I got to get a big laugh.

[A]

Look, it is. This is. It's like time. And Roth from the Godfather, too. He said, this is the life we've chosen. So, you know, I know what I signed up for.

[B]

Is this what happens. This has been a terrible. I've been doing a terrible job. I'm rambling about Israel and being a Jew in the Holocaust. It's the most embarrassing stuff to talk about in public.

[A]

I feel like everyone, every Jewish American has a right, should have a right to be who they are, to wear a kippah, to display a Star of David, to be proudly, invisibly Jewish without fear of harassment or intimidation or violence. Well, I mean, the freedom to be who we are is, like, fundamental for all of us.

[B]

Well, I think that from where I'm sitting, Israel might be a threat to that.

[A]

And, you know, you have that view, but others have a different view.

[B]

Why are we still having this interview? This is exhausting. I'm sweating.

[A]

We can end the interview.

[B]

AC's on. I'm just trying to find a button to shake your hand. Dude, I don't want to do this. We could have talked about so much other.

[A]

No, I think you had an agenda to speak about this.

[B]

I really do have an agenda.

[A]

I. I really did.

[B]

It's your number one topic.

[A]

It's not my number one topic. It's just not.

[B]

It is your.

[A]

It's not my number one topic. It's. It's. I was not elected on Israel. You don't get elected in the South Bronx.

[B]

I'm not trying to make you feel bad or, like.

[A]

But you. I just don't think. You know what you're talking about, Sam.