DAVID HOGG Talks Parkland, DNC, Saving the Party

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Adam Friedland Show — DAVID HOGG Talks Parkland, DNC, Saving the Party

Date: September 24, 2025
Guest: David Hogg (Gun violence activist, former DNC vice chair candidate, co-founder of Leaders We Deserve PAC)
Host: Adam Friedland

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Episode Overview

This episode features an extended, candid conversation between Adam Friedland and activist David Hogg. The discussion traverses Hogg’s personal history as a survivor of the 2018 Parkland shooting, his rapid rise to activism, the entrenched frustrations with the Democratic Party, and the generational challenges of politics and advocacy work. Laced with humor and honesty, the interview also touches on Hogg's recent breakup, coping mechanisms, and struggles with party leadership as he tries to help shape a new political direction for young progressives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Background and Coping After Parkland

• Early Life and Activism Roots

  • Hogg describes himself as a self-confessed nerd, involved in drone racing, AV club, and debate. His family background (FBI agent father, teacher mother) and his high school’s TV production program prepared him for media exposure post-shooting (13:02–15:10).
  • Quote: “Because of TV production and speech and debate, I had to argue about guns prior to the shooting... media trained, also to some extent, because of TV production.” (15:10–15:31)

• Parkland Shooting Experience

  • Details of his experience during the shooting: escaping chaos, being directed away from danger by a mysterious school staffer, sheltering in a culinary classroom. Talks of survivor’s guilt and the psychological toll on him and his peers (16:42–19:02).
  • Quote: “We told ourselves it wasn’t okay to be happy... because of what we went through. And it took a long time for us to unlearn that...” (08:42–08:55)

• Social Backlash and Public Life Post-Tragedy

  • Hogg reflects on the strange role reversal of teens facing adult ire and conspiracy theories. Discusses the impact of being labeled a “crisis actor” due to unexpectedly poised media appearances (15:31–16:20).
  • He shares how advocacy quickly overtook a private teen existence, even making normal college life awkward because of notoriety (29:32–29:44).

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2. Gun Reform, Political Cynicism, and Policy Hope

• Failures of Institutions

  • Both Friedland and Hogg criticize repeated law enforcement failures and legal loopholes that enabled the Parkland shooter’s access to firearms (21:03–21:56).
  • Quote: “The police were called... over a dozen times... and despite that, he couldn’t buy a handgun at 18 but could buy an AR-15, which is the logic of the NRA.” (21:11–21:51)

• Policy Changes: Insufficient but Notable

  • Hogg acknowledges federal changes post-Uvalde/Buffalo, but notes their modest impact. Over 1,500 high-risk people have been blocked from gun purchases, but it’s far from comprehensive (21:57–22:29).

• Desensitization and the Mass Shooting Crisis

  • The conversation notes a generational numbness to ongoing violence, with active shooter drills becoming normalized in schools (23:14–23:38).

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3. Youth, Idealism, and Political Polarization

• From Altruism to Attack

  • Hogg and Friedland recall the immediate politicization of Parkland survivors, drawing parallel to other viral youth political moments (e.g., Nick Sandmann in D.C.) (24:13–26:54).
  • Quote: “You’re supposed to be dumb enough to believe that change is actually possible.” — Hogg (25:21)

• Political Evolution and Factions

  • Briefly mentions other Parkland students’ divergent pathways, some growing more conservative, others dropping out of politics (25:29–25:31).

• Reluctance to Hold Youth Accountable Like Adults

  • Friedland empathizes with the harsh scrutiny placed on kids for opinions they may outgrow (26:54–27:44).

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4. Party Dynamics, Gatekeeping, and Generational Change

• Why Is the Democratic Party Stuck?

  • Extended critique of DNC bureaucracy and leadership. Hogg characterizes the party as risk-averse, inward-looking, and more interested in maintaining its own power than actually winning elections or representing real grassroots concerns (38:49–41:47; 63:00–63:45).
  • Quote: “Hell no. It’s to protect their own power, Adam.” (63:07)

• Blocking Youth Reforms and Internal Resistance

  • Hogg’s campaign for DNC vice chair was stymied by obscure procedural objections, a “neutrality pledge,” and a sudden rule change. Ultimately, his desire to primary establishment candidates led to party pushback (53:45–62:08).
  • Quote: “They don’t want young people. They want... young sycophants that only believe what older people want young people to believe, instead of what young people actually believe.” (61:29)

• Money in Politics

  • Detailed discussion of how D.C. campaign support revolves around AIPAC, cryptocurrency, and candidate fundraising totals, not actual charismatic, issue-aligned candidates (64:37–65:38).

• Hogg’s Vision: Leaders We Deserve

  • Hogg spotlights his PAC’s mission to elect young, uncompromised progressives—even against entrenched Democrats. Describes supporting the likes of Maxwell Frost and Molly Cook, who ran on progressive platforms without corporate backing (39:53–42:50).
  • Quote: “Frankly, many times the only good politician is a scared one, specifically one that is scared of losing their job.” (41:27)

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5. Jewish Identity, Israel, and Party Tensions

• Discussion of how Democratic leadership tries to pander or overcorrect on Israel/Palestine, especially in races like Zoran’s New York campaign. Hogg ties real grassroots support to authenticity and clear progressive stances, rather than rigid talking points (33:45–34:32).
• Quote: “We want young people to actually believe they can be represented, that our issues—whether it’s affordability or... Israel—are actually addressed.” (34:00)

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6. Mental Health, Breakups, and Coping

• Personal Loss and Recovery

  • Regularly weaves in recent breakup pain, gym routines, and joking about Spotify playlists for heartbreak (00:02–00:22, revisited 28:12–29:50, 49:01–53:39).
  • Friedland: “What albums are you listening to post-breakup?”
  • Hogg: “There’s a song called Wicked Game... it's very good.” (00:12–00:19; revisited at 49:59)

• Adam’s 'Pain' Playlist and Social Media Antics

  • The two swap song recommendations, discuss sad music as emotional processing, and tease each other about post-breakup moods (50:00–53:37).

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7. Political Action, Next Steps, and Calls to Action

• Hogg’s Criteria for Candidates

  • No corporate money, progressive on guns, honest position on Israel/Palestine, standing up for authenticity and youth priorities over party orthodoxy (67:16–69:27).

• Building Power

  • Advocates for more young people running for office, pushing for power to align with actual values rather than entrenched interests (66:24–67:16).

• Realistic But Relentless

  • Hogg is clear: there's no savior, only the collective, assertive action and tenacity of a younger, value-driven generation (66:35–67:16).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You’re supposed to be dumb enough to believe that change is actually possible.” — David Hogg (25:21)
• “They don’t want young people. They want... young sycophants that only believe what older people want young people to believe instead of what young people actually believe.” — David Hogg (61:29)
• “Frankly, many times the only good politician is a scared one, specifically one that is scared of losing their job.” — David Hogg (41:27)
• “Hell no. It’s to protect their own power, Adam.” — David Hogg on the Democrats’ true motivation (63:07)
• “We have to get better people elected in the first place. We need to ask ourselves: how do we make sure as a generation that we do not replicate the spinelessness that got us here?” — David Hogg (67:07)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|--------------------------------------------------------| | 07:22 | Hogg discusses internalizing negative public reactions | | 16:00–18:41| Recollection of the Parkland shooting | | 21:03–21:56| The gun legislation loopholes and system failures | | 30:17–31:19| Family’s move and adapting to DC life | | 33:45–34:32| Discussing authenticity, race, Israel, and campaign | | 38:49–41:47| Is the Democratic Party “salvageable”? | | 53:45–62:08| The DNC vice chair process and leadership obstacles | | 67:16–69:27| Hogg’s litmus test for candidates and final message |

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Tone & Style

The episode blends comedic banter, dark humor, and serious advocacy. Adam Friedland’s irreverent style often draws out personal anecdotes and honest frustrations from Hogg, who is both self-deprecating and passionate.

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Final Takeaway

David Hogg’s journey from Parkland survivor to activist and Democratic Party critic is shaped by both trauma and an unwavering drive for change. This episode offers a raw, sometimes somber, often funny look into what it means to be a young reformer in a system resistant to structural change. Hogg's call is clear: only generational organizing and the relentless election of genuine, principled young leaders can make U.S. politics representative and accountable.

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Transcript

[A]

Oh, you just got dumped.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

How recently?

[B]

Two months ago or so.

[A]

Oh, my God. You're in it right now and you're trying to save the Democrats.

[B]

I know, bro. I just like throwing challenges on top of challenges.

[A]

What albums are you listening to post breakup?

[B]

There's a song called Wicked Game. That's very good.

[A]

Chris Isaac. That's a horny song.

[B]

And then what?

[A]

You're listening to sex songs post breakup?

[B]

Well, you know what the song's actually about, right? I feel like it's literally. Anyway. All right.

[A]

I'm watching someone having sex listening that song.

[B]

Well, that's a great imitation.

[A]

Who is you? Hello and welcome to the Adam Freeland Show. And as always, I just want to thank our members and our patrons who help support the show. Help keep the lights on. If you'd like to support the show, there's a link in the description of this video or you can click join at the top of the page. For $5 a month, you get every episode before it's released to the public. You get discount codes on our merch. And. And if you join at the second or third tier, you'll get your name in the credits of every episode. Also, there's a link to our Patreon in the description. If you prefer to support the show through Patreon. My guest this week is former vice chair of the dnc, David Hogg. He first rose to prominence, of course, in 2018, in the wake of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas school shooting, when he organized a series of high profile protests in support of gun control. More recently, in 2023, he founded Leaders We Deserve PAC to help young progressive candidates get elected to public office. But before we show you the interview, I need to address something. As many of you know, things have changed quite dramatically in my life over the last few months. Laudatory profiles have been published in the New York Times, which is my favorite newspaper, and the New Yorker, which is a periodical that I've been meaning to check out once I will. It's on my list. You know, the literati are starting to pay attention, but I promise to you, the viewers, I'm never going to change. I'm the same old bitch.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

On Monday, I finally got the call up to the big leagues, the one I've been waiting for. I was asked to appear as a panelist on the Piers Morgan program. Now, whenever I get the question, who are your guys? I always say three names. Number one, Bob Dylan, of course. Number two, Martin Luther King, MLK. Some people know him as and number three, of course, is Mr. Piers Morgan. And I just can't tell you guys how riveting and thrilling I found the conversation on his program to be.

[B]

Joining me now to debate Charlie Kirk, Jimmy Kimmel, and the battle for free speech is the CEO of Timcast Media, Tim Poole, the man the New Yorker is called the future of late night, host of the hugely successful show, the Adam Friedland Show. Comedian Adam Friedland. So where do you sit with all this?

[A]

I am a tell it like it is comedian. There's a lot of kind of empathy being expressed towards Kimmel right now. But where is the empathy for Donald Trump? Certainly conservative comics like Dennis Miller, Michael Richards, kill Tony.

[B]

I detect a slight sarcasm to your.

[A]

I'm not.

[B]

Bob Iger will go down in media history as Neville Chamberlain in a cashmere sweater, minus the dignity. Okay, what do you think of that?

[A]

People always use Neville Chamberlain as a historical reference to prove that no Democrats ever celebrated a cancellation on the right.

[B]

I agree with you, Tim.

[A]

Listen, Bob Iger jumped up on his.

[B]

Desk and started tap dancing when this controversy started because there's a real visceral reluctance to have people on the right even engaging in debate. And that's got to change on the Adam Friedland show.

[A]

Not on my show.

[B]

Well, your show's great. That's why I think it's an issue.

[A]

I think that there's something. After I recorded the episode, I was a nervous wreck all day. I was waiting around for the episode to be released and finally something popped up on this popular social media platform, X.com. but what I saw devastated me to no end. Mr. Morgan posted a tweet with a clip to the episode that referred to me as comedian Adam Friedman. To be deliberately attacked by one of my heroes, frankly, has broken me. I found it difficult to get out of bed. I found it difficult to listen to my girlfriend's awesome and interesting and hilarious stories. Perhaps Mr. Morgan is threatened by my recent ascent in the political chat show space. Or perhaps, God forbid, this was a well orchestrated, deliberate act of anti Semitism. We don't all look the same. Some of us are good at money. Some of us are good at books. And I happen to be good at neither. So, Mr. Morgan, I'd like to invite you to come on my program and to settle this like a man. My name is Adam Dean Friedland. It's the only name I have. I got it from my mother and father. And you'll be seeing a whole lot more of me, Piers. So here's my conversation with David Hogg And I'll see you again in a minute. One minute. Our next guest is president and co founder of Leaders We Deserve. He first came to national attention in 2018. David Hogg, everyone. You can clap, guys. What's wrong with you people?

[B]

Hey, I know how you.

[A]

Very well. Thanks for coming, dude.

[B]

Thank you. I love the studio audience.

[A]

President and co founder. So you made the other guy be less than you?

[B]

No, you started the club. We just have different roles.

[A]

Coffee, Coffee Run, Starbucks.

[B]

That's not it at all.

[A]

What does he do?

[B]

He does a lot more of the internal mechanics and I'm a lot more front facing.

[A]

DC is awesome. Dude. You live there?

[B]

Yeah, I do. Where in D.C. i would get into that, but my house has been swatted before and stuff so I prefer not to touch.

[A]

That's just a thing that people do now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We had Taylor Lorenz. She said her parents get. Did they swat? SWAT team.

[B]

That's horrible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's just what happens, Parkland. It happened to my family.

[A]

You were, you were a junior or senior when you, when the events happened, Is that right?

[B]

I was a senior and you're a.

[A]

Senior and just adults were pissed at you. Like there's a lot for the rest of your life adults were pissed at you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You became an adult. Yeah, yeah. But like I just. You kind of like, it's strange. We had. Because we had the kid Harry Sasson too.

[B]

Right. I watched that.

[A]

He just gets. He gets yelled at by like dads.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I mean like, if you look at his comments, it's just like, it's kind of like you got it. You, you kids got like a Thunberg kind of treatment where it's like you were very altruistic and then people were like, fuck these baby. Like, you know, kids. Right. And it's a strange like kind of impulse. What do you think that was like? Or what was it like when you first started experiencing that?

[B]

Honestly, I, in the beginning we were so focused after Parkland on just getting change and like raising hell to force change to happen that I wasn't that focused on it. But eventually it did break through more because I remember the first time somebody asked me like, oh, have you gotten your first death threat? And just said that casually to me as a 17 year old, I was like, what? And then I.

[A]

Someone gave you a death threat or asked you.

[B]

No, somebody asked like, oh, have you started getting them yet? Like, just like it's an inevitability. And I was like, what are you talking about? And then I got really kind of paranoid and freaked out about it, of course, because I was 17, and I think the. One of the worst. Sorry. One of the really hard things that happened after Parkland, when you're, like, speaking out after something like that that happened to a lot of the students that spoke out, was we would, for example, do an interview and a TV producer be like, oh, you kids are so inspiring. Can I get a photo with you? And what do you do in a photo, Adam? You smile most of the time. Right. Or that. And when we smiled in that photo and they would put out those photos, a lot of right wingers would take those photos and say, these are the photos. These are the faces that you make when you're standing on the bodies of your dead classmates.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And to be told that, like, what?

[A]

It's such a fucking psychotic world.

[B]

It's horrible.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I. But we actually internalized it, and we told ourselves it wasn't okay to be happy. It wasn't okay to. To have any amount of joy because of what we went through. And it took a long time for us to unlearn that, because I think those. Those people knew that.

[A]

What do you mean it wasn't okay to be happy? You were depressed, you mean?

[B]

Well, that it wasn't okay to have any amount of joy or ever smile because you had survived a school shooting. Does that make sense?

[A]

So in the pictures, you were frowning. Right.

[B]

Well, in photos.

[A]

I'm sorry. I'm a stupid guy. Sorry.

[B]

No, no, what I'm saying is, for example, there's one photo that we took with a producer after an interview that we did with them where the producer was like, oh, you kids are so amazing. Like, can I take a photo with you? Naturally, no matter really what you've gone through, you still smile in a photo, even if it's, you know, a few weeks after or whatever. And the right would take those photos and say, these are the bodies that you're. These are the faces that you make when you're standing on the bodies.

[A]

And that was like. That. That was like a popular response that you guys were getting.

[B]

Yeah. And we really internalized it because obviously, we have a lot of. Of survivor's guilt. We have a lot of ptsd. And for a long time, we told ourselves it wasn't okay to be happy.

[A]

And you also just had to, like, become part of the adult world or the mess of the adult world. And not only the regular adult world where you're going to the accountancy firm and then you're watching the office after work. I can't imagine what it would be like at 17 or 18, to be known. I don't know. How did you handle that? Like, just like, just the, you know, like being a private kid, you know. What were you doing before that? Cross country running, in case you couldn't tell. Did you. You were blazing up.

[B]

No.

[A]

You didn't blaze.

[B]

I had, I had. I was a serious athlete. I had to. And my dad was an FBI agent too, so.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

As you can imagine, he was at Narco.

[A]

Yeah, he was.

[B]

No.

[A]

Did he go undercover?

[B]

He had in the past.

[A]

So your dad used to have different looks. He'd be like biker for six months.

[B]

No, he wasn't a biker. And I can talk about this now because he had a bike.

[A]

He'd be like ISIS terror cell for.

[B]

Well, no. As you can imagine, a guy who is my father doesn't presumably fit in.

[A]

I don't know. I'm not. I don't. He's an actor. I mean, he could play any role, but.

[B]

Yeah, when he started out in the FBI, his job was. He was. He would go undercover and dig through different people's trash to help.

[A]

He's a hobo.

[B]

Yeah, he would go and cover the hobo.

[A]

He's a government hobo. So your dad's an FBI agent, your mom's a teacher.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Do you go to parties?

[B]

Did I go to parties.

[A]

Did you hit brew?

[B]

Not very often.

[A]

Do you have beers or blunts before you were just a running kid?

[B]

I was a pretty big nerd. I would say that.

[A]

Student government?

[B]

Absolutely not. Not that big of a nerd.

[A]

Did you play gaming?

[B]

I did play a lot of Call of Duty in Modern Warfare and I actually still do play. I still do play a good amount of Call of Duty, like on my phone, and it's kind of hilarious because, you know, I'm sure I'm playing with a lot of guys that are playing mobile. Yeah. That are playing, you know, guys that I'm sure to some extent are to the right of me a lot of the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I get pretty good. And I'll get like first place and I'll get all the likes and like, people following me stuff and they'll be like, this is great. Whatever.

[A]

You just got beat by the hog.

[B]

Exactly. And I'm just always laughing because I'm like, if only you knew, like. Because I can only imagine how you.

[A]

Want to beat them in Nazi zombies. Yeah. You want to cook them in Nazi zombies.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I played FIFA for a while, but it Was just kids in, like, Saudi Arabia that were 11 just beasting. I could lose, like, 11 one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, yeah, it really hurt my feelings.

[B]

And you didn't lock in.

[A]

I don't have the time, dude. I'm 38. I can't get back into video games. I tried to. I played Red Dead, though.

[B]

Oh, really? How was that?

[A]

I didn't, like, you disappear from the world, right? You're like, not in the world. It's kind of crazy. I, like, check my phone. I thought it was, like, 9:45. It would be, like, 4:00am yeah, it was amazing, though. It was one of the most special experiences of my life. My girlfriend asked if she could play for a second, and then she punched my horse in the face. And I was like, can you just give it back to me? What are you doing?

[B]

Right?

[A]

Let me play cowboys. Yeah. No, I can't. I can't Game. So wait, so you were just a nerd? You were good. You got. You were like. Were you in clubs or anything?

[B]

Yeah. So, like, I helped start a drone racing team at my high school.

[A]

Drone racing?

[B]

Yeah. It was as nerdy as you imagine. And the only woman that ever showed up to that was my sister when she had to as a freshman because I had to drive her home. Oh, my God. So there was that. And I was also in TV production, and I think this is.

[A]

Oh, you did av.

[B]

I think this is a really important component of the story that a lot of people don't know about what happened after Parkland. And I think part of the reason why, when things happened the way that they did after the shooting was our school had a pretty good TV production program, and we had a pretty advanced speech and debate program.

[A]

I did speech and debate, so I.

[B]

Was in speech and debate as well.

[A]

What'd you do?

[B]

I did PF and extep.

[A]

I did LD and I did it. I didn't.

[B]

Don't even get me started on the spreading in ld.

[A]

No, that's.

[B]

Did you spread a lot?

[A]

Policy is spreading.

[B]

Well, LD does.

[A]

I think that they're gonna think we're some sort of nasty, nasty spreading. Is that you talk really fast.

[B]

Yeah, it's not like. Yeah, it's not.

[A]

It's not Sharon Stone. Okay. Okay. It's. It's where you try to get as much evidence out. And he's wrong because it's policy debate. He's lying.

[B]

No, policy does it more.

[A]

LD is philosophical. It's about. You give great speeches and stuff, regardless.

[B]

There's more. You get too emotional in ld. That can happen than PF typically.

[A]

What's pf?

[B]

Public Forum.

[A]

Oh, you just said government. That's like the government. Robert's Rules of Whatever. Order.

[B]

Well, so I don't know how much of that actually has to do with pf, but in terms of Robert's Rules of Order. But the point I was getting at is that I really wanted to be a broadcast journalist when I was in high school.

[A]

Like, do the news.

[B]

Do the news. Like I grew up, I kind of wanted to be like a. I didn't know who this person was at the time, but in hindsight I wanted to be like Mike Wallace.

[A]

If you're familiar with 60 Minutes.

[B]

Yeah, kind of. Yeah. And the thing about Mike Wallace is like, he would just grill people. And I really wanted to be a journalist that scared the hell out of really powerful people that I saw as corrupt, inept and some combination. Just stupid, generally speaking. So I would start making TV production content about at a small scale, like in my high school where we wouldn't have enough Spanish textbooks, but we had to have them for our classes and stuff. So I'd go and talk to the principal.

[A]

So you talk to the principal.

[B]

Exactly. And then all of a sudden we'd have enough Spanish textbooks. Right.

[A]

Really, it worked?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, they respond to questions.

[A]

This hog is getting too big for his Britishes, I guess.

[B]

And because of being in TV production and speech and debate, I had to argue about guns prior to the shooting. I had to argue about universal background. You're media trained also to some extent, because of TV production. Right. So I knew how to talk on camera and I knew the issues that I needed to talk about. So when we went out there, myself and a lot of my other classmates, we sounded unnaturally good on camera, unnaturally good at, you know, knowing the policy issues because our public education actually did its job. But instead people chose to believe that we worked for the FBI or we worked for some government agency because they find it more believable that we would work for some three letter agency than the fact that our own education system could actually do its job. And that's part of the reason why there were so many conspiracy theories that happened after the shooting. For example, there was a clip where, yeah.

[A]

They said you were like a crisis actor.

[B]

Right. And they would take clips of me where I was doing what I learned in TV production, where like instinctually, sometimes if you want to redo a take or something, you count down from like five. Right. I would do that. And people like, see, like he's trained and it's like, to some extent. Yeah. Because of TV production, but not because it's a massive conspiracy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. You don't have to protect. You don't have to.

[B]

No. But I think that's an important note.

[A]

I think it is. But, like, you don't have to explain yourself. You saw kids getting killed at your school, and you wanted to talk about it.

[B]

Well, so that's another.

[A]

And you were good at talking about it because you're smart.

[B]

Well, a lot of our classmates saw all kinds of things. And our school that I think a lot of people don't understand for context, too, is, like, we're an outdoor school. You know, schools in the Northeast coast.

[A]

We had a lot of those.

[B]

Exactly. So, like, schools in the Northeast, like, they're all typically under one roof. Like, there's, like, a courtyard right at our school. It's, like 13 different buildings. So I was in the building next to where the shooting happened. My classmates and I, like, we heard gunshots echoing between the buildings, but we didn't end up seeing anybody in terms of the students that I was immediately around die. Yeah, but a lot of our classmates did. And it's a huge high school. It's 3,300 people.

[A]

When I was in the. And a janitor kept you. Like, saved you from going to wards.

[B]

So that's one other thing, too. Adam. I have never found that person since.

[A]

What do you mean? How? He worked at the school.

[B]

I know. And I found.

[A]

We gotta find this guy.

[B]

I thought I found him at, like, an event, like, a long time after the shooting. I have no idea what the fuck. I know.

[A]

That's so weird.

[B]

I know. And I went up to the guy that I thought, did he fire him?

[A]

Where'd he go? This is bugging me right now.

[B]

So what Adam's getting at for further context so that people understand, as the shooting happened, I was exiting my classroom because we initially thought it was like a fire drill or a potential active shooter drill or something like that. As we're exiting our classroom, we go to our evacuation zone, and all of a sudden a flood of students start going in the opposite direction of where I'm going. And naturally, you start following those students as we're following those students, unbeknownst to us at the time, because you don't know if there are multiple shooters. You don't know if it's a drill. You don't know.

[A]

You just hear bullets.

[B]

Like, you just hear gunshots. And, like, you don't know what's going on. You don't know if there are bombs on campus. You don't know anything. Right. And we were instinctually. I was instinctually kind of following the crowd. And as we were running, I was actually running towards where the Fechlin building was, where the shooting was happening. So it's total chaos. And there's some kind of janitor that I. When I went up to the person who I.

[A]

Some kind of janitor.

[B]

I think it was a janitor. I don't know if it was a teacher.

[A]

I'm saying it that way. Some kind of janitor.

[B]

Somebody came out that was an adult and said, like, don't come this way.

[A]

He's a ghost.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Could have been, like, a Bagger of Vance.

[B]

Could have been.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But they came out and said, like, don't come this way. And as he said that, our culinary teacher opened up her classroom, that was, like, the closest classroom to us, and got about, in an incredible act of heroism, got about 60 or 70 students into a classroom in what felt like the matter of, like, 30 seconds.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where I would spend the rest of the time in lockdown, obviously, after the shooting. And as we're there, you don't know, like, if you're about to die, kids are having panic attacks. Kids are trying to be quiet. I'm texting my sister, who's 14 years old at the time. She's freaking out. Understandably.

[A]

She was at the school as well.

[B]

Yeah, she was. Thank God. She was on the other side of the school. Even though she was a freshman, she was in our TV production class. So I ended up interviewing my classmates, not just as a way of keeping myself calm, because I didn't have anything else.

[A]

Like, you were on the news.

[B]

Kind of. Like, we were. Like, as a student journalist, like, I took out my phone and started interviewing them in case we did die in.

[A]

The middle of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whoa. Because, like, for your parents to see.

[B]

Like, for whoever to see, in case something did happen. As a dad, there would be a record of, like, these kids saying, like, we need to do something about guns.

[A]

Ah, interesting.

[B]

And it was a way of me keeping myself calm in that moment, too, because I remember my dad talking about these types of things growing up, being an FBI agent, about, like, the necessity of staying calm. And I interviewed them, and I asked them, what do you think about, like, the nra? What do you think about, like, the fact that we're going through this and everything? And thankfully, that day, the classmates in my immediate vicinity. And I made it out, but 17 of our classmates and Teachers didn't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In the building right next door to us.

[A]

And did you, like, post. You posted it, like, while it was happening?

[B]

Not while it was happening. I ended up. I think I ended up. This is like eight years ago now, Adam, so it's kind of a blur. But I think what I ended up doing was I sent it first to our. I was working for like, as, like basically whatever is lower than an intern. Like, basically that. For the local paper at the time. I was very bad at my job and I sent it to like my producer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Person that was there.

[A]

Oh, like to go on the.

[B]

To go on the news.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Fuck. I mean, I'm sure that's like a way that you could distract yourself. Right. Kind of focus on something else. Did you ever meet Nicholas Cruz? I mean, had you. Did you know who he was?

[B]

No. I mean, our school is 3,000 people.

[A]

It's a big school.

[B]

I don't remember meeting him ever. And I also.

[A]

Is it true that Broward County Sheriff's Department, there were like multiple red flags and.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. Because I don't think people talk about that enough.

[B]

Well, yeah, that's the crazy thing to me is like, you have an instance here where the system has failed in multiple major ways. Right. The police were called, I think it was over a dozen times in the one to two years before the shooting to the shooter's house, about different disturbances that were happening. And despite the fact that he couldn't purchase an AR15 because he was not. Or. Sorry. Despite the fact that he could not purchase a handgun because he was not 21 yet, you couldn't legally purchase that from a federally licensed dealer. He could purchase an AR15 because he was above the age of 18, which is the logic of the NRA. Right.

[A]

That's still the law.

[B]

So kind of, for the most part, it is the only.

[A]

So depressing.

[B]

The only addition I'll make to that is after the Uvalde and Buffalo massacres, Congress changed the laws, passing the first federal gun law in 30 years where they expanded background checks for people under the age of 21 attempting to buy guns. Which is nowhere near enough to be clear. But I will note there have been over. I think it's over 1500 people that are high risk individuals that the FBI has documented that previously would have been allowed to purchase guns like the AR15 because of that enhanced background check have since been prevented. Well, which is nowhere near enough to be clear.

[A]

It's a tough time to be clear. Gun control is a tough one.

[B]

It is.

[A]

I Mean, I feel like I forgot about it. I feel like it's so chaotic. This. You know, mass shootings are also so common. And then just also. Yeah. The world has turned into, like, so psycho. It's like, as, like, it seems like it's like from like the 1990s or something. It seems like it's like, from the West Wing.

[B]

It's numbing almost.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I mean, it must be for.

[A]

You, like, for that to be where you're coming from. Like, that's like, you know, must be. I remember Obama crying on tv.

[B]

Of course. I remember posting about Sandy Hook when I was in middle school, being like, how could this happen? This is so disturbing.

[A]

You were in middle school for Sandy Hook?

[B]

That happened? I think I was in middle school. Yeah. I think I was in seventh grade.

[A]

And correct me if I'm wrong, kids in schools now are like, there's mass shooting training. Is that a thing?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So that's. Damn.

[B]

Yes. God, it is. It's horrifying.

[A]

I was just watching American Pie. I was like, by the end of this year, we're all getting laid. Simple. You're like, you're going to school in, like, you know, fucking in Blackhawk down or whatever, you know, like.

[B]

Yeah, it's horrifying.

[A]

I mean, you should have seen it, dude. It was a great country, man. I was mad at Bush, but that feels quaint at that at this point now.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, still lots to be mad about.

[A]

So. Okay, so let's. Let's talk about, like, after the fact, and we touched on that earlier. So, like, one thing I remember from Twitter was that, like, there was also, like, right. There was like, that kid Kyle, right? He was, like, on the right wing side of, like, the parkland kids. Like, you guys got politicized for sure, right? And, like, you guys became symbols and what.

[B]

I'll say this. What I will say not.

[A]

He's chill now.

[B]

Not to interrupt you, though.

[A]

I think I. This won't make the episode. I ran into him once. He came up to me. He's like, dude, I'm not right wing anymore. I'm chill.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. He's like, dude, I don't give a fuck about that shit anymore, dude. Like, he's like, I'm just trying to, like, chill. I live in the city.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's kind of nice, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, if that was news to you, I'm glad I broke.

[B]

Well, what's. What's crazy to me is that I literally got a call from him immediately after the shooting to him like. Like, trying to, like, challenge me to a fight in the cafeteria.

[A]

Like, Dawn. I was like, I don't want to say.

[B]

I don't know. And I was like, what the hell are you talking about, man? Like, we.

[A]

Why was he mad at you immediately after? Because you did those interviews?

[B]

I think because we were speaking out and saying what we thought needed to be done. Right. And he obviously didn't agree, which, like, look, it's. People can have their. Their differences of opinion. Yeah.

[A]

And he was speaking out himself.

[B]

Adam, I.

[A]

You're also kids.

[B]

What else. What I'll say is this much just.

[A]

Let you just be optimistic, you know? Like, that's what really pissed me off. I cut you off, but that's what really pissed me off about. The response is like, you're like. You're supposed to be like, let's change the world when you're 17. Like, that's what you're. You're supposed to.

[B]

You're supposed to be dumb enough to believe that change is actually possible.

[A]

Yeah, sure, fine. Well, now they're all Republicans.

[B]

Well, not all of them.

[A]

We can go to that later.

[B]

We'll go to that later, sir.

[A]

But that's fucking weird to me, you know?

[B]

It is fucking weird. It is extremely weird.

[A]

It's normal that you're like, we're gonna. We're gonna get together and we're gonna do something like, that's. That's. You're supposed to have that optimism at that age. And, like, there's a. You know, this might go nowhere. Okay. But I don't know if you remember when there was, like, that kid, Nick Sandman, like, in D.C. there's that kid with the MAGA hat and the Native American, right? And then, like, it was like that picture was taken and put in all these newspapers and stuff like that. Like, everyone's, like, wanted to fucking, like, be like, this kid's evil. Fuck this kid. I think that kid actually got paid. I think, like, he sued all these news organizations because. What. It doesn't matter. But there was part of me that was a little bit like, listen, he's 17 years old. Like, people's opinions change. Like, you know, I'm. You know, people are allowed to, like, be kids and, like, you know, grow up, you know, and. A little bit, yeah, that kid's wearing a mag hat, but it's just like, he's not Donald Trump. Like, he's just a kid that's like, maybe his parents are Republican, maybe. I mean, it's just, like, holding kids accountable, like, and. And You. You experience this yourself is like. It's a little bit like. It's just, like, the way society treats younger people nowadays. It's just like. It's. It's. The world that you guys inherited is terrible. Like, I got. My shit was awesome. People had SUVs. And.

[B]

I mean, you had the Iraq War too. That was not great.

[A]

We were at PF Changs. The hottest girls in my school were the hostesses at PF Changs. And I'd go in with my parents, and I'd want to throw up because I'm like, she's gonna find out I have parents.

[B]

We've all been there.

[A]

She's gonna think I'm a loser. You know, I mean, it's just.

[B]

Did you ever end up asking her out?

[A]

No. Of course. What do you think? No. Why do you. That's why I'm doing this.

[B]

I don't know how I would have.

[A]

Been fucking running Halliburton or something if. Yeah, I don't know. No, no, of course not. She was probably dating. Of an adult. You know, I was like. I was in. Why am I holding this? They do not sponsor the show. Sorry. Icelandic glacial. It's probably from Jersey, bro.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Joke.

[B]

Hoboken water.

[A]

The shit that I. The shit that we fall for. Going back to the fact that you were kind of a loner. Bit of a loner. Prior to.

[B]

I had friends, to be clear.

[A]

Who were your friends?

[B]

Who are my friends? A lot of other speech and debate kids. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So. Yes.

[A]

And there were a couple chicks on the. There were a couple chicks.

[B]

Well, I tried.

[A]

I mean, there were, like, girls that were there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And we were dominating them with facts and logic.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, the worst of us were.

[A]

Do you. Are you in a relationship?

[B]

Am I in a relationship? No.

[A]

No. Have you been in a relationship?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yes. In college.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Your first love?

[B]

Mmm. Kind of. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That's a rough one when it ends.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Did you, like, say, God, why have you forsaken me? Did you do that? Kind of.

[B]

No. I think sometimes you can fall in love with somebody and fall out of love with them. Different.

[A]

You broke up with her?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just get ready to get dumped, dude.

[B]

Oh, I have. Trust me.

[A]

The first dump. Oh, my God.

[B]

It's brutal.

[A]

You're just. You're just fucking Elliot Smith.

[B]

It's brutal. I mean, the last one was.

[A]

No one has ever felt pain like this, ever, in human history.

[B]

Well, I mean, the. The. The bottom line is, is that it was rough enough that it actually got me to start going to the gym more.

[A]

Oh, she's trying to get jacked.

[B]

I'm trying.

[A]

Why? Could she just beat you up?

[B]

No, far from it. That would have. It's just, like, more than anything, I. I know that I have a lot of work to do on myself, personally.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, your. Your child is probably stunted a little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Grow up. You're like a child actor kind of.

[B]

Well, not in the way that those conspiracies talk about, but sure.

[A]

Not in a crisis actor. No. But you're like, of a childhood, right? Like.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of notoriety and all kinds of weird shit. Like, I couldn't go to.

[A]

From drinking too much. Like, you know, like.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I couldn't go to parties in college when I started as a freshman.

[A]

Because they'd see you.

[B]

Because people would start filming me when I was there.

[A]

It's so stressful.

[B]

Yeah. And I eventually got over it once I turned 21. Like, I was fine, you know, drinking and stuff. But. Yeah. Yeah, it's. I'm a pretty weird person in terms of, like, all the random shit that I've gone through.

[A]

I wouldn't say don't hate on your own ass. Like.

[B]

Well, I don't think, like, weird.

[A]

It's just like, you've had a unique road, but that's why, brother, I'm 38. Let me. Let me. Let me OG you. It's gonna make you tough, brother. Yeah, I think so.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Your parents moved to dc, the whole family.

[B]

They ended up moving to DC for a time.

[A]

That is kind of child actor style, though, right?

[B]

I mean, our house got swatted, and my sister is really struggling because she went through the shooting as a freshman. So the family ended up moving to dc, and my sister finished high school up there.

[A]

But DC is So you can get in the game, right, A little bit.

[B]

No, it's just that there was a really good high school for my sister to go to up there. Sidwell. No, it was not Sidwell. It was called Georgetown Day School.

[A]

All right.

[B]

And Jesuit. I don't. Well, it's not actually associated with Georgetown, but she did end up going to Georgetown.

[A]

Oh, sweet. Yeah. But I went to gw.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I was thinking DC by the end.

[B]

Yeah, it can be a lot.

[A]

It's just they're so ugly there, and the people are so. They think they're great.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

What's great about you?

[B]

It's crazy that you say that, because I had the Exact same thought. When I first got to New York City this week, I was like, looking around, I was like, this looks. The people here look so much different from D.C. like, the. The adage that D.C. is just Hollywood for ugly, ugly people is 100% true.

[A]

Why we let those people tell us what. I'm sorry, so you think one of the ways you want to change the Democratic Party is you want more like tens?

[B]

No, that's not what I'm getting.

[A]

You gotta get some more tens in there.

[B]

No, I think we need some top tier performers in terms of being able to actually. No, no, no, no, no, no.

[A]

What we're working on, I mean, Zoron is genuinely. That's a handsome guy.

[B]

I mean, there was hot girls for Zoron, right?

[A]

Well, no, I'm not. I'm talking about the guy Zoron. I don't care about these girls. I'm talking about how great this guy looks.

[B]

Well, yeah, he looks phenomenal.

[A]

He's a handsome, charismatic guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like, why wouldn't they want a handsome, charismatic, good speaker in the party?

[B]

Well, you know, I think.

[A]

I think we know.

[B]

Yeah, I think we both do. Yeah. I think it's. I think it's because he actually represents something that is real, Right. That he is saying what voters had been wanting for a long time. Especially younger people have been wanting for a long time. Younger men have been wanting for a long time. He got 85%.

[A]

We want him. Yeah.

[B]

In that election.

[A]

I've been wanting him for a long time.

[B]

And. But the thing is, like, he had a clear message and it wasn't just a bunch of bullshit talking points. Was like, oh, we're gonna lower prices. Like, sure, he's on TikTok, but the thing is, Andrew Cuomo could have been on TikTok. He would have lost. The only difference would have been is that he would have lost by even more.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Oh, wait.

[A]

Tiktoks would have been the reason.

[B]

The reason why I'm doing a dance. Right. Something like that.

[A]

I'm doing a dance.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm doing the nae nae for Israel.

[B]

Right. The bottom line is when he was on TikTok, he actually said something, Right. And gave something. Yeah. He gave something for young people to actually believe in. A vision to believe in that. I think a lot of Democrats have not. And then he was also, obviously, extremely and rightfully so vocally critical of the state of Israel.

[A]

And I think that was overstated. I think people were like, they made. They made. It was a. They were Being racist to him because he's Muslim and they wanted to make him into Osama bin Laden. And he's really just a rapper that went to Bowden.

[B]

What I think is really admirable is despite all of that hatred, he ran a ruthlessly positive campaign. Right. Where I would say, like, if you look when Fox News covers him, it's actually hard for them to find photos of him where he's not smiling. Do you know how hard that is, Adam? Like, it is quite difficult, really. Yes. Because they'll find anything. But even when they put up photos of him, he's always smiling at them.

[A]

Do they put frowning pictures of Democrats?

[B]

Typically, yeah.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

It's like them being upset or, you know, just whatever makes them look the worst way possible, of course.

[A]

Or like looking fat or something.

[B]

But when I was with Zoran, we went to Washington Square park together, like during the camp, in the final weeks of the campaign, and look like I've worked around lots of young. On different campaigns with younger candidates and everything like that. That's what we do at leaders we deserve. We help to elect young people, state legislatures and Congress and sometimes mayor. And the reason why we do that is because we want young people to actually believe that they can be represented, that our issues, whether it's affordability or addressing all kinds of things, like the obviously fucked up shit that is happening that Israel is doing right now and the genocide that they are committing against Palestinians.

[A]

Yeah, but what does that have to.

[B]

Do with New York?

[A]

I think that that's one of the annoying things that everyone's like, will you go to Jerusalem? And then it's like.

[B]

It's so weird the way it tracks.

[A]

It, that it wasn't that Zorin didn't win because he was speaking out against Israel. He won because people thought a. He won the Jewish vote. He won because it was a. People were like, this is weird. Why are people talking about this? Cuomo, like, used it to attack him.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And then they tried to like, present New York City as like a. Like a anti Semitic hellscape when we all live here and it's like, what, It's New York City like this. We live in Seinfeld. Like, what do they think? They think it's not the fucking Warsaw ghetto. So it wasn't like, that was just like an attack on him. More so because, like, he was like a. He'd been part of, like, activism in the past, but in reality, he just. On a surface level, this is well articulate, charismatic and young and handsome. Guy that seemed chill, like. And like the aversion really seems to like, the guys that are like there, they're like, I'm gonna just. I'm gonna invest heavy in like, the military industrial complex before I appropriate a weapons pack.

[B]

Right. Bullshit.

[A]

You know, they just don't want to be fucking illegal. They just don't want to stop, like, being there, like, appropriating weapons.

[B]

Of course not.

[A]

And like, they're like, yeah, there are guys that like, have been there for 80 years and they like, make Matt. There's kind of stealing and they're kind of like entrenched in like, their position. They're like, they see like a young talent there and they're scared. They want to knife him.

[B]

Yeah. Because he is a inherent threat to them because he is calling them out on their bullshit and actually saying something he believes in.

[A]

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[B]

All right.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I was about to say that maybe.

[A]

Like 6% of are in favor of what's happening in Gaza. The democr.

[B]

Right?

[A]

I mean, Biden appropriated those funds. How's the party look like when like, basically we're seeing people rounded up by like, Gestapo force right now.

[B]

Like, and we're writing fucking strongly worded letters.

[A]

We basically. Oh, no, it was a tiny program in the dhs. And Obama basically just, just like, like, blew it up. Blew it up. And like, how does it look like when deportations under Biden were, like, pretty much on par with the first term of Trump? Like, consistently, the things that matter to the constituents of the Democratic Party are just completely ignored. Ignored. It's really difficult, I think, a difficult position to be put in. And like, the question for you and like, we can parlay this into your experience with the vice chair of the dnc. Is it salvageable? Is the Democratic Party salvageable an institution that literally wanted to fuck you off for trying to make any changes?

[B]

I mean, I think the bottom line is with the way that our government is structured. And trust me, Adam, this is not a question I take lightly. This is not something that I'm just saying because it's like, oh, like this is just the way things are. Just structurally speaking, the way our government is set up, we're probably always going to have some kind of two party system in one way, shape or form. And I know that sounds like a really boring and academic answer.

[A]

I know.

[B]

But would I. Sorry, who's that?

[A]

Your agent?

[B]

No, it's Sex in the City three. It is a. It's a state senator you're playing, mister.

[A]

Who is it? State senator.

[B]

It's a great state senator.

[A]

You want to hit him up? Let's talk to him.

[B]

Zainab Mohammed.

[A]

From here? New York?

[B]

No, they're from Minnesota.

[A]

Minnesota.

[B]

They actually represent the district that just went through the school shooting, unfortunately, in Minneapolis. So she's calling me about that, so I'm not.

[A]

You're the guy that gets a call every shooting. God, your life sucks.

[B]

Well, I try to help people after.

[A]

I know it's horrible, but, like, it's. So you just have to relive your. The past over and over again. I mean, I know that's getting us off track.

[B]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

No, but I'd love to hear.

[B]

I mean, the way that I see this right now, Adam, is the best way to beat them is to actually to win is to defeat them. And that's what we try to do with leaders we deserve. We're trying to find the best young people. Like, there's lots of young people who suck. But the bottom line is we. What I saw in the case of somebody like Maxwell Frost in his race, I hired Maxwell from my dorm room right Before COVID actually to work at March for Our Lives. Maxwell then called me a few years later and told me he wanted to run for Congress. He was 24 and he wasn't the best person in that race just because he was young. He was the best person in that race because he had a decade of experience fighting against gun violence, working for the aclu, doing all these different forms of activism. And his opponents, his two main opponents were somebody who committed tax fraud while in Congress as a Democrat, and the other was a hedge fund manager who was a Democrat in Congress while being a hedge fund manager at the same time. Maxwell had to uber Drive from 9pm to 2am yeah, he was homeless every night. Yeah, he was. Exactly. And there's so many young people like that that have that grit, that have that will, that have that determination, who don't want to support, you know, all kinds of the awful things that we're talking about happening that the party is supporting. Frankly, many times the only good politician is a scared one, specifically one that is scared of losing their job. And if the government is not going to change our gun laws, if they're not going to address what is happening, whether it's what's going on between with Israel or what's happening with the climate crisis, or the fact that we have a. We are a military welfare state that is feeding a private prison industrial complex through our broken immigration system right now, where there is literally a multi billion dollar incentive to not fix that system. If our government doesn't change that from the pressure on the outside, we'll just outlive who is in government and change who is in government by getting these young people elected that actually do stand for something, hopefully.

[A]

And it's not these motherfuckers live though.

[B]

They do.

[A]

Some of them, I don't know how they look like Emperor Palpatine, but that's.

[B]

The crazy thing, Adam. They'll say like, oh my God, experience is so important, it matters so much. It's like if experience actually was so important and helped us so much, I wouldn't be talking to you right now because we wouldn't be in the crisis that we are in with one of the oldest Congresses we have ever had in Congress right now. Do you know how many people are under the age of 30 there?

[A]

There's Max.

[B]

That's it. Yeah, he is the only member of Congress under 30.

[A]

That's gotta be the wackest hang ever.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

He's gotta chill with these fucking people, right? Can you imagine how bad the breath.

[B]

Is and that's what we're trying to do with leaders we deserve is change who is in government by bringing in a substantial amount of funding to get behind them to elect people. Like there's a state senator in Texas who we elected last year by 62 votes. We gave her $300,000 to support her campaign. She doesn't take corporate money. Her name's Molly Cook. And she defeated a different Democrat who voted not only to arm teachers while in the state legislature, but voted to give them $25,000 for being armed.

[A]

Give him a check and a gun.

[B]

Yes. That's what he tried to do.

[A]

Just in the abstract you said that. I'm like that's kind of just like that sounds like crazy when like Jason Bourne opens like a box and he's got eight passports and there's $25,000 in a gun.

[B]

It's like he's a teacher now.

[A]

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[B]

Immediately.

[A]

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[B]

The point that I'm getting at is that when it comes down to it, we can have a party that fights just as hard as Republicans. But I do have to say we are playing on an uneven playing field right now where they have taken over the courts, where when Biden did try to do a lot of really progressive things, all of a sudden injunctions were issued and we couldn't do anything right. Trump comes into power and then the Supreme Court is like, actually, those injunctions, they don't really matter anymore when they're done against Donald Trump. So it is to say we absolutely do need to do Better as a party. And we have to get better at fighting. But there are increasingly structural factors that make it way harder for us to fight back. And we need to address those at the same time. And it's hard. It is incredibly fucking hard. It is incredibly fucking depressing. And it's hard to.

[A]

Do they hurt you?

[B]

Some of them do, certainly. But I'm fine with it.

[A]

You think? What's your approval rating in the. In Democrat D.C. probably 3%. Jesus Christ, bro. Yeah, but you're gonna cook them.

[B]

I think I'm going to outlive them because I'm 25.

[A]

You don't smoke cigs. No, but stress is a killer. You're mad stress. I could tell.

[B]

No, I'm going to the gym.

[A]

Yeah, but you're stressed.

[B]

I'm stressed. But it's a productive stress. Yeah, right. There's a reason you meditate. I have, yeah.

[A]

You have?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I never. I don't have the patience.

[B]

I don't meditate as much. I get a lot of my meditations through running to some extent.

[A]

Do you watch movies?

[B]

Yes, I've been watching one of the movies. I've been watching a lot since the breakup is Good Will Hunting. Actually. How many?

[A]

Because. Because. How about them apples?

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Yeah, because you were a janitor when you were there.

[B]

Hilarious. Yeah, I know. It's ironic that it hilarious is.

[A]

Hey, hook, my ass.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are you guys friends? Oh, you dumped her. Fell out of love.

[B]

No, I was dumped.

[A]

You got dumped? But you said you fell out of love with her.

[B]

Well, no, that's a different girl.

[A]

Oh, you just got dumped.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

How recently?

[B]

Oh, like two months ago.

[A]

Oh, my God. You're in it right now and you're trying to save the Democrats.

[B]

I know, bro. I just like throwing challenges on top of challenges.

[A]

Oh my God. What are you doing? But I guess it's like you doing the. Doing the interviews in the middle of the thing. You're saving the Democrats in the middle of this hell, Adam.

[B]

I don't know if I'm necessarily saving the Democrats. I'm trying to do my part.

[A]

Well, you're being a net positive.

[B]

I'm trying to fucking help, man. This shit sucks. And I.

[A]

What albums are you listening to post breakup?

[B]

What albums am I listening to?

[A]

Can I give you a playlist that I have called Pain?

[B]

I have a playlist from. Dude, I have one that's even out yours called Pain. I have one that is. Nevermind.

[A]

What? Just tell me, bro.

[B]

I have one that's even more depressing and cringe. Than that.

[A]

Everyone's calling you a fucking 75 year old Soros funded actor. Tell them about the songs you're listening to.

[B]

Okay. Please deem and ruin your life. Fine.

[A]

So be a human being.

[B]

I've been listening to. There's a song called Wicked Game. That's very good.

[A]

Chris Isaac. That's a horny ass song.

[B]

And then what?

[A]

You're listening to sex songs post breakup?

[B]

Well, you know what the song's actually about, right? Have you listened to the lyrics?

[A]

No, I feel like it's literally anyways.

[B]

All right.

[A]

I'm watching someone having sex with that song.

[B]

Well, that's a great imitation.

[A]

Have you seen the video? They're like on the beach, black and white.

[B]

Yeah, well, I probably should.

[A]

Sexy. Go watch the video song for me. Yeah, stop listening to that song. They're better. Let me play some. Okay, I'll play you some song. Do you know. Have you ever heard. Let me see.

[B]

Do you want me to pull out the.

[A]

Yeah, let me see your Spotify. Post breakup, dude. Was she in politics?

[B]

Kind of.

[A]

You can't date someone in the game, dude.

[B]

Well, she wasn't officially in politics.

[A]

What was she doing?

[B]

She did a lot of advocacy related work, but not.

[A]

Yeah, you can't. Somebody in Hollywood too?

[B]

No. So I've been. Hold on.

[A]

Can I give you a little note, please. This is so love. This is so adorable. Like when you're saying that I was good at talking on the news before, like that's why I was good at doing the advocacy. You don't have to explain that to these fucking. These fucking. Why don't I say fucking to these fucking losers?

[B]

They are that I'll say that much.

[A]

It sounds like you are 45 year old Soros funded actor. Just say like, listen, dude, some kids got killed at my school. I'm trying.

[B]

I was mad. I like, it's not that.

[A]

I did debate you just. Just be like you, you fucking pig. Yeah, all right. I feel like you're getting tough. I'm gonna. I'm gonna train you up.

[B]

Yeah, we have. We should hit the gym together.

[A]

I'm not going to the gym, dude. I have a girlfriend.

[B]

Well, if that changes, then you can come to the gym.

[A]

I don't get fashion muscles, dude. Have you heard Walk on by.

[B]

Walk on by.

[A]

Isaac Hayes. Put that on the playlist.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Put on I Fall to Pieces. Patsy Cline standing in the doorway. Bob Dylan.

[B]

Oh, that's a good one.

[A]

You know from. That's my favorite Dylan record.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I'm out of mind.

[B]

You know what? One of my crying.

[A]

Roy Orbison.

[B]

Oh, crying. You still have this playlist?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it's. I had Apple music. Chelsea Hotel, Two.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Leonard Cohen.

[B]

Leonard Cohen.

[A]

You want to hear this? This is a funny line.

[B]

I remember.

[A]

Wait, you gotta hear this.

[B]

So paint us the setting. Adam, where are you? You're crying. Listening to this, presumably.

[A]

Come on, bro. Where was I? I was in bed.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Okay. You didn't just hear this, Dude. Brave and so sweet.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

Do you know who that song he's singing about is? It's funny.

[B]

No.

[A]

You know who it's about? It's about Janice Chocolate. She's about her sucking his dick at the Chelsea Hotel. And he wrote the most beautiful song ever. We don't have to put that in the episode. We need you to save the Democrats. Can we go in? Because I think we alluded to it, but I think it's important for you.

[B]

To get this out about what happened to the dnc.

[A]

About you. Yeah. Running for the vice chair of the dnc.

[B]

Yeah, man.

[A]

And then your experience and then you know where that leaves us right now. Totally.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, like, the bottom line is that I wanted to. I was. As part of the campaign, I. When I was on. There's this thing called the National Finance Committee, which is basically for all the people. I didn't know it existed until, like, the election because I was helping them raise money and I won it because I. We obviously needed to strengthen gun laws and everything like that and had to defeat Donald Trump.

[A]

And they crushed that one.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

God.

[A]

They ran Mr. Magoo for a bit.

[B]

God. And then we.

[A]

I heard behind closed doors, he's like, actually, like. He's like Neil Degrasse Tyson.

[B]

Who?

[A]

The former president, Joseph Robin.

[B]

Dude, when I met with him, he was fucking on it, I'll say that much. Like, I talked to him for an hour.

[A]

Why was it like that? Because the sun went down, dude.

[B]

I mean, it could have been people. It was like a year and a half before the election.

[A]

Embarrassing for America. Dude, America looked like crap.

[B]

Well, I mean, debate did. We said, the whole world is going.

[A]

To see this and it's going to be. They're going to be laughing at us.

[B]

The reason why I ended up running for vice chair was because I got tired of just saying to people, like, hey, we're losing young people. We need to do something about this. And then getting texts back from the fucking consultants on the campaign being like, here you go saying this stupid shit again. And then we saw what Happened. Right. And it's not to say, like, I have the full answer on how to win back young people. I don't. But I know enough to know that this is not the right fucking answer. Right.

[A]

And so you were elected, though, as a vice chair.

[B]

I'm getting to that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. So I decided to run for it. Not because I was like, oh, yeah, like, I'm going to win this thing. I ran for it because I wanted to be on stage in the most, like, insular group of Democrats possible to say to them, to their faces, not what they wanted to hear, but what they needed to hear so that when they asked, why did we. Why did we lose the election? I could say, why did we lose the election? Because we heard from voters more than anything, two things. Joe Biden is too old and prices are too high. And with the power of $2 billion behind us, we said, no, he's not. Then, yes, he is, and no, we're not going to have a primary.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then when we heard that prices were too high, we said, no. Look at the stock market, look at this, look at that. You're wrong. If you tell voters not to believe their goddamn eyeballs or wallets and you don't provide them a vision other than like, let's just keep everything the same, you are going to lose them.

[A]

Yeah. And that's why they didn't say, like, you, like, women lost abortion because of Trump.

[B]

And part of what I.

[A]

It's a pretty simple one to say, like, it's half of the people.

[B]

Right. So I ran for the position and I called. You have to call the 450 or so DNC members basically nonstop for like two or three months to earn their support. It's not great. And as I was doing that, I ended up getting enough votes in order to win. And the election happened. But the challenge that ended up happening.

[A]

Who are these people, by the way? DNC members.

[B]

So it's people that are like your.

[A]

There's state chapters.

[B]

So 75 of them are appointed by the chair of the DNC. So, like, it's just whoever the chair wants them to be. And then.

[A]

I'm bored already.

[B]

I know, I know. Hey, you asked, not me. And then a bunch of them are like, party activists, state party chairs, vice chairs, et cetera. And when I ran for the position, I read the bylaws and the bylaws of the DNC, 10 out of 10 do not recommend reading unless you want to fall asleep. Are they say that you can't be involved in primaries for president, but they say nothing about being involved for primaries in general. Right. And then because I was thinking to myself, because I was running leaders we deserve. We're a PAC and super PAC that does get involved in Democratic primaries. I talked about our work in primaries when I was running, because you do all these different town halls and things like that. And I also looked back at people who had been vice chairs before, like Gretchen Whitmer and Tammy Duckworth, who have.

[A]

I like gretch, who have PACs that.

[B]

Were vice chairs and gave to people from their PACs while being vice chairs. So in that position, Adam, when nobody asks you about, like, well, you have a pac, how is this going to work? Or anything like that. And it's not in the bylaws, and there's precedent for this. You think that. You would think that it's going to be fine.

[A]

So they. I'm so stupid, dude. They said you were breaking the rules.

[B]

So. No.

[A]

But they tried to make up a.

[B]

Rule that you were breaking. So what ended up happening was at our first DNC meeting, Ken Martin.

[A]

Ken Martin.

[B]

Ken Martin, hands out, like, they hand out this pledge, this neutrality pledge, to say, you are not gonna be involved in any primaries at all, in any way, shape or form that is not in the bylaws. And I said to them, I cannot sign this because we do get involved in primaries with leaders we deserve. My job is I run a PAC and super PAC that helps elect young Democrats, young progressive Democrats that, you know, are running for state legislature and Congress and mayors sometimes. And I told them, look, I'm fine with not being involved in the presidential primary because that is what the DNC really manages more than anything is the presidential primary. And I was given the option that I could either not do this work because we announced this effort to spend millions of dollars challenging incumbent Democrats that we feel like are failing to meet the moment in safer seats that don't risk us losing the house at all. And they said, look, you have basically two options here. You can either keep your job because the vice chair role is completely voluntary. Completely. It's a volunteer role. You can either keep your job running leaders we deserve and not be a vice chair and be involved in whatever primaries you want, or you can keep. You can remain a vice chair effectively, but you can't do anything regarding primaries at all. You can't fundraise, you can't work on them. So that would mean I would just have to collect a check for 18 months, basically doing nothing for leaders we deserve and not be able to fundraise for it so that I could have some basically bullshit ceremonial role at the dnc.

[A]

But, like, that's not why they got you out.

[B]

And. Well, so what, what they ended up.

[A]

Saying, what they came up with.

[B]

Right, so what they.

[A]

They got you out because that you wanted to get establishment people out?

[B]

Well, what they ended up coming up with, what they said was, and I'm very sorry for how boring this is, because it's part. It's like.

[A]

It's been parliamentary, it's been like watching.

[B]

It's been a ride.

[A]

It's like Top Gun Maverick.

[B]

Honestly, it's like. It's like the trilogy. It's like the final component, Right?

[A]

What trilogy?

[B]

It's the third Top Gun. That's how exciting this is. I know there's been a second one. This is the third one, because that's how excited. Anyways, yeah, I'm moving on.

[A]

What happens in the third?

[B]

So what ended up happening here. What ended up happening here was they would have to change the bylaws in order to say nobody can be involved in primaries at all. And. And then to remove me, they would need a 2/3 vote to do that. So in that position, what they ended up doing was saying, actually there was a procedural issue with the election and we're going to redo the election because of our gender balance rule at the dnc.

[A]

What the fuck are you talking about?

[B]

That. Yes.

[A]

They just didn't like you because you wanted to.

[B]

I'm telling you what is the reason they gave me.

[A]

Yeah, but that reason is.

[B]

But then let me, let me finish this, Adam, and then we'll get. We'll get to that, because I agree with you. We end up deciding to redo the election, and as that happens, all this stuff with ICE is going down in LA and the Marines and all that crazy shit. And I think to myself, this is fucking insane. This is not what we need to be focused on right now. You know, I got into this position to try to help us do play some role in helping to win back young people.

[A]

You're gonna make it hell for me, right? Yeah.

[B]

And I'm not here to have some bullshit title that actually I can't do basically anything in, because they just want. They don't want young people. They want fucking young sycophants that want young people who only believe what older people want young people to believe instead of what young people actually believe. What they need. Right. Which is not a politics of the pragmatic in this crazy bullshit that we got caught up in. Where it's like we're gonna keep just writing strongly worded letters to fascists and hope that somehow they get buried under a mountain of those strongly worded letters by November and that's our win. Is that what they do? Yes, yes. Right. Like please stop with your fascism. And it's like, fucking Jesus Christ, stop. Right?

[A]

Do they spray perfume on it?

[B]

Basically, yeah, I'm sure they do. And I'm sure they give it a kiss and send it off. Right.

[A]

They wrote it right in a gel pen.

[B]

It's insane though, to act like this is the best that we can do as a party. And if I have to choose between a ceremonial role and being you want to do something and doing what I can to help bring in a generation that for most of our lives has never actually had a real sense of hope in our lives because we haven't really seen somebody who we feel like actually is fighting for what we need just to survive instead of being like, actually we know you're underwater right now. What if you were 9ft underwater instead of being 10ft underwater? It's like, fuck you, I actually want my head above water, God forbid. And what it's going to take is electing people who actually believe in something and have a spine to stand for a politics of what we actually need instead of just a bunch of bullshit talking points and fucking strongly worded letters. That's what we're doing at leaders we deserve.

[A]

It seems almost as if sometimes like they're the incentive of the Democratic Party is not necessarily to win elections.

[B]

Hell no. It's to protect their own power, Adam.

[A]

So if that's your focus, right, like that runs, you know that like that puts you in opposition to them. So like most likely like, I mean, and you like, yeah, they use some procedural bullshit about like you being. You wanted to fucking primary people that were like part of the problem. And then they wanted. Ken Martin wanted you out. Right, right. And then he was like, you could either work with your organization or be the code the co chair of the Democratic one of DNC 5 Vice, which is like, honestly, what the fuck would you get done?

[B]

Right? And it's like even, even the smallest things that I brought up I could tell that we were not going to make progress on. And I also brought up in closed door meetings at the dnc, I said, look, when we're talk voters because of course like we're doing our whole like they, they called an after action report because it's not an autopsy because we're not dead yet. So Boring when they're doing that. What I brought up is like, guys, if you're going to talk about young voters, I know you don't want to talk about this. You have to talk about Gaza. You do.

[A]

Because Democrats don't support the. Don't support, like what's happening in Gaza.

[B]

Exactly. But the thing is, inside of these, they don't want to deal with that because, you know, in almost all the conversations that I hear from different organizations about congressional campaigns, you know what the three things I hear most are?

[A]

You hear health care, Gaza, inflation.

[B]

No, in terms of like how groups inside of D.C. decide who to support Israel. That's one of them.

[A]

Fentanyl. Support for fentanyl. And then, yeah, just doing like. Oh, yeah, like going to a satanic blood ritual event.

[B]

Yeah. And you forgot obviously all the other stuff on top of that.

[A]

But no, what they actually kissing Netanyahu on the lips.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. So gossiping about who's going to be.

[B]

The congressional representative for Israel. Right. And it's just a constant competition for that Fetterman. I mean, it's a tough competition.

[A]

A big boy, that guy.

[B]

But the, the thing I'm getting at out of in dc, the three questions I hear most often from different groups, how to get involved in these campaigns is not like, oh, like, is the candidate actually charismatic enough to like, win? How are they polling? Right. Like things you would typically think about. It is depressingly, it is extremely depressing how much actual conversation there is about democracy. Because the three questions that get asked most is what is AIPAC doing in this race? What is crypto doing in this race? And what was their last quarter's fundraising and how much cash do they have on hand? Yeah, that's all of it.

[A]

And that's much money.

[B]

We do. Yeah, we need to get money because we don't take money. I like, there was a, there was somebody who called me after we supported Zoran. He's like, I was going to give you the substantial amount of money that he had pledged previously. And he's like, I'm not doing that anymore. Because you guys supported Zo Run and I don't agree with him on Israel, but because we have so many small dollar donors, I got to say, look, man, like, that's you. We're going to continue doing this work because we're supported by 220,000 individual people around the country who support us because our candidates, they don't take corporate money, we don't take corporate money. And we have to make sure that we have the Independence to be able to actually create the change that we need. And it's fucking hard. It's incredibly hard. But what I need from people that are listening to this, if they take nothing else, is to consider running for office. Because this is not these guys.

[A]

You don't want these guys.

[B]

I mean, honestly, some of them could.

[A]

The dregs of humanity.

[B]

Because I'll tell you this much, these guys in DC are not actually that fucking smart. Yeah, you can outwit.

[A]

They run for the. The Xbox party, okay?

[B]

But the bottom line is I don't think any single person is coming to save us. I don't think I can save us. I don't think you can save us. I don't think any single person can. Right? But I mean, maybe you can, Adam. I don't know. But I think all of us as a generation, things are incredibly fucked. Right? We know that. And it's easy to talk about, oh, this is all the fucked up shit that's happening. This is how wrong it is. We have to figure out how in the future for the next generation does this conversation not just continue happening over and over again. Because we became the leaders that we needed, but had far too few of growing up people who actually stand for something and create real change instead of becoming younger versions of who currently is there and is 80 or 70 years old.

[A]

I think we'll end on that. But, like, what are the major points that you're gonna push for your candidates in the midterms as a litmus test for their election?

[B]

Well, for one, it's obviously, for me, it's not taking corporate money, it's being good on guns. It's also making sure that they have a stance that is actually in line with the American people and voters of what they want to happen with the situation that's going on with Israel. Right? And actually saying, you know, maybe we shouldn't be giving billions of dollars to a country that says like, oh no, there's not a famine that we're complicit in, in fucking starving people and slapping them on the goddamn wrist and acting like there isn't anything that we can do. It's just ridiculous that we are getting pushed around by them when we're the very people that are arming them in the first place. If the United States wanted to, they could stop this. Absolutely. And it's fucking bullshit. It is total bullshit. And we have to get better people elected in the first place. And the thing that we need to ask ourselves is how do we make sure as a generation that we do not replicate the spinelessness that got us here and build the power that we need to actually achieve what we want. Because in politics, unfortunately, you can only get, you know, if you want 100% of what you want, you need 100% of the power. You can't do that in a democracy. You can get 90%, potentially 80%. We have to figure out how to get to that 80%. And instead of just saying like, well, like, this is the right thing to happen. Yeah, it is the right fucking thing to happen. Right. Or this is the wrong thing to happen, we need to change that. Regardless of whether it's the nra, APAC or these other groups, we need to be able to take them on. But we need to build the real power on the left to ensure that we are voting in line with what the American people want. And what Democrats, actual Democrats, not the idiots in D.C. that want to just say, like, oh, this is what they really believe in, what Democrats and young people actually believe in. Because we saw that in Zuron's race and the power of it. Right. He was not supposed to win that race. If it was a traditional electorate, he would not have won. But because he said what he actually believed. Believed in, regardless of whether or not somebody agrees with him, at least you fucking know what he believes in. Yeah, right. Cuomo started to change his stance more after the primary on all kinds of issues because he's just trying to get elected and he's spineless. We need people with actual spines and they need the power and talent, too. And the talent.

[A]

You can have a guy with a spine that's just like, annoying.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like, you need a guy that's like, zoron gives good speeches and he's like, he's charismatic. Yeah. It's like a normal thing. Right?

[B]

I mean, not to tell you how.

[A]

To do your job.

[B]

No, it's real. That's. That's what we're trying to do.

[A]

I gotta send you this playlist.

[B]

You absolutely do.

[A]

You're in the. You're in a dark one right now. I mean, how much time are you spending in bed?

[B]

Not enough.

[A]

The bed is. Oh, not enough because I'm going to.

[B]

The gym a lot.

[A]

You're going gym mode?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, you're. He's gonna be red pilled, like two months.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's gonna be listening. Yeah. You're gonna be taped. He's gonna be.

[B]

He's going tape mode. No.

[A]

Or you know what you could do instead of going to the gym? Move to New York City. Dude, I seriously thought about it, Skinny. You don't have to go to the gym at all. Well, girls love it.

[B]

I mean, hack what it is.

[A]

It's. Women are brainwashed by the film Eddie hall into thinking it's acceptable it was to, like, date a Rumpelstiltskin kind of guy.

[B]

It's been great for a while, but I think it's starting to change. And I need to change with the times, too. I can't look like I'm one cigarette away from death anymore.

[A]

Dude, I know. I mean, I'm gonna see you talking about high value men pretty soon.

[B]

I'm.

[A]

I'm gonna see you.

[B]

Thanks a lot, man. Thanks so much.

[A]

Good luck. Give it up for him. You had fun.

[B]

Sam.