GOV. WES MOORE Talks Military Service, Iran War, Oprah

Summary

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The Adam Friedland Show

Episode: GOV. WES MOORE Talks Military Service, Iran War, Oprah

Date: April 29, 2026

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Overview

In this engaging and wide-ranging conversation, Adam Friedland sits down with Maryland Governor Wes Moore—best-selling author, army veteran, and rising Democratic political figure. The conversation weaves through Moore's upbringing, military and political career, views on America's “forever wars,” race and service, his breakout book The Other Wes Moore, and his friendship with Oprah. Friedland’s comedic sensibility brings out warmth and candor from Moore, while tackling weighty topics like war, political accountability, and social cohesion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life, Upbringing, and Identity

• Family Background & Migration:
  • Moore recounts his childhood split between Maryland and the Bronx and his family's Caribbean roots.

    "My grandfather was actually born in the US but actually fled the US when he was young...got the attention of the Ku Klux Klan...and they left." (09:04-09:52)

• Jamaican Heritage:
  • The two joke about patois; Moore says his is “not bad” but sometimes gets teased by family.
• Socioeconomic Mobility:
  • Moore discusses attending a prep school and jokes about telling rich classmates his “vacation house” was in Brooklyn.

2. Basketball as Social Bridge

• Finding Community:
  • Basketball helped Moore integrate into new environments and make friends after moving.

    "It was a place of freedom for me, particularly when..." (13:56)

• Basketball Anecdotes:
  • Moore describes himself as a “violent gentleman” on the court, comparing his play to Anthony Mason. He shares stories about his first dunk and playing against future NBA stars like Stephon Marbury and Kobe Bryant.

    "If Anthony Mason were a point guard, that's who I was." (14:09)

3. Education and Military School

• Getting Sent Away:
  • Moore was sent to military school at 13 for getting into trouble (tagging/graffiti), which he initially hated but learned to appreciate for the structure.

    "When I was, like, 13 years old...I ended up loving it. Because I needed it." (19:17-19:48)

• Comparisons to Other Leaders:
  • Joking contrast between Moore’s experience and Donald Trump’s time at New York Military Academy.

    "I think you would have done well in military school." (22:05)

4. Path to Academic Success

• Discovering a Love for Reading:
  • Moore’s mother got him into reading by giving him books about basketball.

    "First book she gave me was a...book called Fab Five about Jalen Rose..." (23:03)

• Education as Escape:
  • Education became Moore's means of envisioning a life beyond his immediate surroundings.

    "Education really became this place...an escape." (24:43)

5. Military Service & War

• Motivations for Service:
  • Moore joined the Army out of military school and was deployed after 9/11.

    "I joined the army in 96. I got commissioned 98. And then 911 happened three years after." (26:18-26:32)

• Experience of Combat:
  • Moore shares the emotional and physical toll of war, and frustration with America’s unclear war objectives.

    "We lost over 2400 American service people...trillions of dollars...and I don't know if anyone could argue that we even still to this day had a...clear understanding of what we are accomplishing." (33:38-34:17)

• Critique of ‘Forever Wars’ & Policy:
  • Moore expresses deep skepticism toward the lack of concrete goals in conflicts, especially regarding recent tensions with Iran.

    "We were promised no more of these forever wars...what are we doing?" (34:17)

  • He reiterates that military force should be a last resort, lauding George H.W. Bush's clarity during the first Gulf War.

6. The Military-Industrial Complex

• War as Business:
  • Both Friedland and Moore critique large-scale defense spending and the economic interests that drive perpetual conflict.

    "War, unfortunately, is big business." (36:53)

  • Moore underscores the “soft power” tools America neglects relative to military solutions, highlighting the social cost domestically.

7. The Rhodes Scholarship Dilemma

• Reconciling with Colonial Legacies:
  • Moore addresses the tension of being a Rhodes Scholar given Cecil Rhodes' legacy of apartheid and colonialism.

    "When he created the Rhodes Scholarship, he never intended me to get it. ... I’m thinking of all the people who had to sacrifice for me to be a finalist." (45:35)

• Personal Connection:
  • Moore lived in South Africa as a young man, adding personal depth to the conversation (44:29-45:13).

8. The Other Wes Moore

• Origin of the Book:
  • Moore recounts learning about the “other” Wes Moore, who was about his age from nearby, but who was arrested for armed robbery.

    "An off-duty Police officer was killed...an off-duty police officer...a three-time recipient of police officer of the year..." (48:01)

• Writing and Purpose:
  • He describes his correspondence with the other Wes Moore, and the emotional realization of how small the line can be between their paths.

    "I just think about how thin that line is." (50:22)

• Cultural Impact:
  • The book became widely taught in schools and gained attention thanks in part to Oprah’s endorsement.

    "Oprah actually introduced it. She introduced the book to the world." (52:04)

9. January 6, Disinformation & Social Cohesion

• Watching January 6 with Oprah:
  • Moore shares he was on the phone with Oprah as the Capitol riot unfolded.

    "I'm literally talking...with Oprah and the TV is right there." (53:00)

• Impact of Lockdown and Disinformation:
  • Friedland and Moore discuss how social isolation and online echo chambers erode civic trust.

    "People have gone a little bit crazy and we don't talk about it enough." (55:51)

• Restoring Social Fabric:
  • Moore advocates for service years for young people to foster community.

    "I want people to be able to find ways of getting to know each other again and working together..." (56:40-57:11)

10. Maryland Politics, Campaigns, and Odds

• Moore’s Political Entry:
  • Moore explains his decision to run for office without a traditional “political ladder.”

    "This is the first office I ever held in my life." (66:59)

• Campaign Stories:
  • He details his approach to meeting voters where they are—even in hostile or unlikely Democratic territory—and just listening rather than preaching.

    "It’s not even so much what I'm telling them. It's actually what I'm hearing." (69:50)

• Election Betting Market Bit:
  • In closing, Friedland and Moore riff on the absurdity and ethical problems of betting markets for political outcomes.

    "If I did that...I turn and walk away with $4 million." (72:27-72:52)

11. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Education really became this place...an escape." – Wes Moore (24:43)
• "We lost over 2,400 American service people...and I don't know if anyone could argue that we even still to this day had a...clear understanding of what we're accomplishing." – Wes Moore (33:38-34:17)
• "The military should not be your end destination...the military should always be the last option." – Wes Moore (37:54)
• "Loving this country doesn't mean lying about its history." – Wes Moore (42:12)
• "There is this absolute obsession that we seem to have with deploying people overseas for foreign wars." – Wes Moore (34:29)
• "If I could end child poverty right now, I could literally close my eyes and never open them again and feel like this was a life worth living." – Wes Moore (66:06)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Early Life, Family, Basketball: 08:48–16:40
• Military School & Education: 19:00–25:25
• Military Service & War: 26:18–34:17
• Iraq, Iran, and Military-Industrial Complex: 34:17–38:38
• Rhodes Scholarship & Apartheid: 44:21–46:22
• The Other Wes Moore: 46:29–51:14
• Oprah and Book Club: 52:04–53:13
• January 6 & Disinformation: 53:13–57:58
• State Politics & Campaigning: 66:05–70:11

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Overall Tone & Style

Friedland’s comedic yet probing interview style is met by Moore’s candor and thoughtfulness, resulting in a dynamic conversation that is sometimes irreverent, always insightful, and studded with both serious critique and levity.

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For listeners seeking a window into modern American political and social challenges—intertwined with stories of personal transformation, the realities of war, and the complexity of public service—this episode is both substantive and highly entertaining.

Transcript

[Adam Friedland]

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[Wes Moore]

Yeah. Prominence, wow. Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Would you write a sequel, the Other Other Westmore? Because we found this guy, Wes Moore and He posted on January 6, 2019 he got 4 likes for this. He said 4 likes. I heart boobs.

[Wes Moore]

Oh, yeah, that's definitely the other western on Facebook. That ain't me.

[Adam Friedland]

I think this is the seque sa. Hello and welcome to the Adam Friedland Show. I'm Adam Friedland. Real quick, there are a couple tickets left to the Region Theater May 9. Netflix is a joke festival and I didn't tell you guys. I'm going to the brunch at Ted Sarandos house. I'm so nervous. Regent Theater, May 9. First show sold out. There's a 9:45 that they added a couple tickets remain also San Francisco, California, end of the month, Portland, Oregon. More Democrat cities to follow. Failed states. I call them failed states. In addition, if you want to support the show, please sign up for Freedland Family foundation. Here on YouTube.com, you can click to join and be a member. There's a. Something in the. What is it called? The note. My guest this week is Wes Moore. And I know you're thinking Wes Moore, the drug dealer, the robber, the killer. And for those of you who think that, that maybe take a look at long, hard look in the mirror because there's a different Wes Moore, another Westmore, a governor of Maryland, West Moore, and an author of the other West Moore. One name, two fates. Wes Moore. Wesmore is up for reelection currently in Maryland, and after first taking office in 2023, his first race for anything in his entire life. But despite that impending race, I was shocked to see his name listed on every major prediction market site as a potential candidate for the next president of these, these United States. But after two hours here in the studio, it started to make sense. He was acting well, like the

[Wes Moore]

president.

[Adam Friedland]

He was acting well, like the president. He was talking to people, he was talking to me. He was shaking people's hands and he even wore pretty nice clothes. So I've come, I've come up with a little plan. I was inspired by what I saw in those prediction markets. And so at the end of the episode, I want you to pay special attention to. I Think it'll. You'll figure it out. But legally I have to just say I'm not a financial advisor. Nothing I say constitutes financial advice or a recommendation to buy, sell, bet. Past performance does not guarantee future results. Betting gambling carries the risk of total loss. And I'm not going to say anything further. And by the way, I don't even mean anything that I just said because I. So please enjoy what I said was. Westmore. Ladies and gentlemen, Governor Maryland. Westmore, give it up for. How are you doing?

[Wes Moore]

What's going on?

[Adam Friedland]

I thought we talked on the phone yesterday. We were just. It was, we were saying some wild things. Yeah, it was like the conversations comics have backstage, you know.

[Wes Moore]

It was great though.

[Adam Friedland]

It was like we were in the comedy mothership green room and we had mogies. We had all the boys. Thanks for coming on.

[Wes Moore]

Hey, listen, I've been looking forward to this. I told you I'm a fan. This is good.

[Adam Friedland]

You're in the fight of your life right now for your political career. You're up for re election of the for governor.

[Wes Moore]

I am, I am. I'm excited about. We're, we're, we're, we're. We're feeling good. We're feeling.

[Adam Friedland]

Feeling good. You're running for re election of government, Maryland.

[Wes Moore]

Yes.

[Adam Friedland]

And this is one of your. You've left the state in the middle of the work week. You've come and he's come here. We really appreciate you coming as a campaign stop to a Jewish person's YouTube show for your re election for governor of Maryland. You were saying before he's been going to church every day. You're praying on this election every day, every week. Okay, good.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

But it looks tight. Republican is at 28% and the third party candidate. How do you feel about. Don't know. At 16%?

[Wes Moore]

Well, you know, it's crazy. In my first poll when I was running for governor, I'm not voting was polling higher than Wes Moore. So I'm feeling better now.

[Adam Friedland]

So you're, you're, you're like a comeback kid. You like that?

[Wes Moore]

It's a, it's a position that I'm very comfortable being.

[Adam Friedland]

Was it your first election ever? Even class president ever?

[Wes Moore]

No. Listen, I had.

[Adam Friedland]

You never run for anything before.

[Wes Moore]

I've never run for any political office before in my life.

[Adam Friedland]

That's kind of. It's kind of not fair to the other guys that are trying to run for things. Right.

[Wes Moore]

Well, you know, skipped. Yeah. Well, no, well, you know, it's funny. They try to argue that they're like, he. What is he? He didn't wait his turn.

[Adam Friedland]

He didn't know about snow, coconuts. They said that to you? How do you feel about the dark horse in the race? Someone else at 6% right now.

[Wes Moore]

We have our eye on them.

[Adam Friedland]

Someone else. So this is. Surely. You're up. It looks like 25% right now. You're in the fight of your life. You're praying for this. Governor, I've really enjoyed both our conversation yesterday and learning about you, but you're from the city, actually. You grew up.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, I spent part of my childhood in the Bronx.

[Adam Friedland]

In the Bronx, Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

Spent part of my child in the Bronx. So after I was born down in Maryland, and my dad died when I was young, so my mom has to go live with my grandparents who were living up in the Bronx.

[Adam Friedland]

Your family's Jamaican?

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, my family. My grandfather was actually born in the US but actually fled the US when he was young, but was raised in Jamaica. My grandmother was born in Cuba and then went to Jamaica because her father got a job in Jamaica.

[Adam Friedland]

What made him flee?

[Wes Moore]

He was actually pushed out by the Ku Klux Klan.

[Adam Friedland]

Really?

[Wes Moore]

Yeah. So my great grandfather was a minister, and he was a very vocal minister. And the. And he was loud. Yeah, he was. He was loud. Yeah, he was loud. And. And eventually got the attention of the Ku Klux Klan threats. This was. God, I don't know what year it was in South Carolina. And.

[Adam Friedland]

And so he was an American guy that moved to Jamaica.

[Wes Moore]

Well, he was actually a Jamaican who moved to the United States.

[Adam Friedland]

And he was like, it sucks here.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah. And was like, I'm giving. I'm bringing my family out. And they. And they. And they left.

[Adam Friedland]

It's nicer in Jamaica.

[Wes Moore]

People aren't threatening us.

[Adam Friedland]

How's your patois?

[Wes Moore]

It's actually not bad.

[Adam Friedland]

I had a roommate in college that was Jamaican, and he'd be like, yeah. So anyway. And then he'd pick up the phone, he'd be like, you know, hear me now. Hear me now.

[Wes Moore]

That's right.

[Adam Friedland]

It was awesome. Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

You sound like. What's that? I didn't want to do the 1900 number. Ms. Cleo.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, I was doing a Miss Cleo. No, I was doing an impression of my college. My.

[Wes Moore]

Wait.

[Adam Friedland]

My friend. My friend sent me this clip. This funny. He said, this is so funny. And I just didn't understand what the guy was saying.

[Wes Moore]

Uh.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, can you tell me. So you want. You could, like. Can you translate?

[Wes Moore]

Let's give it a shot. I'll Let.

[Adam Friedland]

You know, tell me what this.

[Wes Moore]

This people forget that patois actually, like, it's a real language. Like, people think it's such a accent. Like, not.

[Adam Friedland]

Well, there's like, Wikipedia. That's in Patwa. It's like. Yeah, yeah. There's like, okay, here we go.

[Wes Moore]

Oh, my God. Big up, Big up the whole island.

[Adam Friedland]

Massive.

[Wes Moore]

It's your boy Chattanooga.

[Adam Friedland]

Okay, what's that mean?

[Wes Moore]

It means it's telling him that the, that it's a very big island and there's a lot of things to do in the island.

[Adam Friedland]

Chet from the Golden Globes, He's telling

[Wes Moore]

him they're coming from the gold, they're coming from the Golden Globes, and then he's telling that there's a special session coming out, so he's telling people to tune into it.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, okay. And his father, Tom Hanks, is. What did he say?

[Wes Moore]

Is that. So is that who that is?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, that's.

[Wes Moore]

What's his name? Chad.

[Adam Friedland]

It's my friend Chad.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

He went viral general doing this.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, that's actually not.

[Adam Friedland]

He said Jamaican people loved it, but, but the Bobby. The Bobby Lawns didn't like it. The Bobby Lawns hated it, but Jamaican people loved it.

[Wes Moore]

That's. That's probably about right. Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

I mean, I get that. I get that from, from members of my family when I'm in Jamaica. Like, sometimes when I try to kick into, like, they just kind of laugh Island. Why?

[Adam Friedland]

They make fun of you?

[Wes Moore]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

So fun. Yeah, I, I, it's one of the most beautiful places. Where. Where's your family live?

[Wes Moore]

So my mother was born in Trelawney, which was actually on the west coast of the island.

[Adam Friedland]

Okay. So.

[Wes Moore]

But she spent time in Trelawny. She spent part of her childhood in Low river and actually the place called Westmoreland. And what's really interesting, which is kind of like my name, Westmoreland.

[Adam Friedland]

That's so cool.

[Wes Moore]

And so my family always kind of cracked jokes because my mother, when she married my father, whose name was West Moore, they'd always be like, you went to the United States and you married at Westmoreland. Oh, so it was like, Westmoreland.

[Adam Friedland]

That's so cute.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, it's very cute. It's an amazing island. It's an amazing country.

[Adam Friedland]

So, like, yeah, you, but you were at Riverdale. You're at, like, a prep. Lead. Prep school. But it didn't work on you.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, it didn't work out that well.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

But, you know, one of the cutest

[Adam Friedland]

things that you said to the rich kids Was that you have a vacation house in Brooklyn. That's so adorable. They're like, we go to St. Bart's

[Wes Moore]

but honestly, it's like, I didn't know summer was a verb because people like, oh, we summer. We summer. I was like, oh, okay.

[Adam Friedland]

All right.

[Wes Moore]

Well, I summer, too, in Brooklyn.

[Adam Friedland]

You Somewhere in Brooklyn. Where's your vacation house? Did you make it up? No. Is that the most exotic place you know, or is there a.

[Wes Moore]

Because my grandfather. My grandfather, he was a minister of a church in Coney island and. No. In Bed Stuy.

[Adam Friedland]

In bed. Side. That's. That's a vacation.

[Wes Moore]

It's a vacation house. That's why I vacationed.

[Adam Friedland]

Because you're, like, in elementary school, you're, like, trying to connect with, like, the dad. The guy whose dad is the president of Fentanyl or something. Yeah. You're like, I am. What was the biggest constant in your life was basketball throughout your upbringing.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, well, basketball. Basketball was really the thing that. Actually where I could find acceptance, you know, I mean, like. Like, when I moved to the Bronx, I didn't know anybody. I didn't know anything. And so, like. But what I knew was there were courts that were, like, a block away, two blocks away, and so I would just go to the courts. And that's where I met some of my friends. That's where I learned about. To learn about the neighborhood that I really wasn't familiar with. It was a place that, you know, when I told. When I told my mom or told my grandparents, like, I'm gonna go go play basketball. As long as they're like, as long as you're back by when the sun comes down, like, you're good.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And so it was a place of freedom for me, particularly when.

[Adam Friedland]

What was your game?

[Wes Moore]

My game was actually pretty decent. I was pretty quick.

[Adam Friedland]

What was. What profile? What's your comp? Was your NBA comp. You're just.

[Wes Moore]

I wish I was good enough to have NBA comp. No, actually, you know who. You're a 3 and D. I was. I was like a. If Anthony Mason were a point guard, that's who I was.

[Adam Friedland]

You were violent. Violent gentleman.

[Wes Moore]

I was a violent Charles Oakley.

[Adam Friedland]

You're on our test at the Met in Detroit.

[Wes Moore]

Exactly, exactly.

[Adam Friedland]

Really? So did you have to scrap on the courts?

[Wes Moore]

100%.

[Adam Friedland]

Really?

[Wes Moore]

100%.

[Adam Friedland]

I mean, you had to. You vam'd in your life. How many dunks have you done your entire life?

[Wes Moore]

You know what? I think I did my first dunk when I was a. I would kill

[Adam Friedland]

my I would die tomorrow just for one.

[Wes Moore]

I think I had my first dunk when I was a baby, maybe. No, I think I was a junior in high school when I had my first dunk. Yeah. And I think my last dunk when I was a junior in college, I think at that point I was like, yeah, the knees ain't popping anymore.

[Adam Friedland]

So I don't think we've had a dunk president ever. Just. This is a trivia question. This is nothing to do with your election.

[Wes Moore]

Could dunk or ever in his life.

[Adam Friedland]

You're sucking up right now.

[Wes Moore]

No, I'm just asking if you, one

[Adam Friedland]

on one, you could snatch his soul. You think Barack Obama. Never mind. No. Oh, yeah, he's all right. He's not bad.

[Wes Moore]

Oh, I'm sure he's a great ball player. But like, I would never acknowledge that anybody could beat me.

[Adam Friedland]

When I moved to New York, I moved to Bed's Eye, actually.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

And I went to the courts on, I think between Bedford and Nostril, those big courts, and I played pickup and I got dunked on by like a 13 year old. And I'm like. I'm like, I'm only playing against Jewish people for the rest of my life. Really. Like, people were laughing at me. I was like, what was I supposed to do?

[Wes Moore]

It's a business decision.

[Adam Friedland]

Sometimes it was a child.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, but listen, when you see someone coming up, it really. You gotta make a choice.

[Adam Friedland]

And Starberry ended your career, is that right?

[Wes Moore]

I loved him. He was. He was like. You remember? I mean, Steph was like royalty. Steph was royalty.

[Adam Friedland]

Remember the ESPN the Magazine thing he did with kg?

[Wes Moore]

That's right.

[Adam Friedland]

No bikinis, no thongs. All nude as a kid. I was like, really? Is he. Is he serious? Are there gonna be naked ladies also in this magazine? I didn't know. It was a confusion. Wait, so he just. He cooked? He cooked you? Yeah, he was like, not gonna be in the NBA.

[Wes Moore]

And honestly, like, I was actually pretty good. I was a pretty good ball player in high school and. But then when you go and you play against those guys and you go and you play against, you know, the Stephon Marbury's and you know, Kobe and I were in the same. Yes. Same graduate class. Like, that's nuts. Like, they just played a different level.

[Adam Friedland]

You met him?

[Wes Moore]

Yeah. Who, Kobe?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I'll tell you why. I have a really great Kobe story. So Kobe's cousin slash friend. I wasn't. He called my cousin, but I'm not sure if he's really? His cousin was my teammate in high school, and he was really good. He was like, six, seven, six, eight. Something like that. Anyways, we're going out, and I'm trying to remember if it was right before Kobe declared for the draft or right after 96. 96. But I'm trying to remember what time of the year it was.

[Adam Friedland]

Okay.

[Wes Moore]

But he's like, yo. He's like, me and Kobe. Me and Bean are about to go out, and we're gonna go to the movies. You want to come? I'm like, yeah, that's cool. So we go out to the movies.

[Adam Friedland]

What did you say?

[Wes Moore]

So me. Oh, I can't even tell you what we saw because we didn't see it.

[Adam Friedland]

Buy the ticket because you had so much fun.

[Wes Moore]

No, buy the ticket. Standing in line, and then one person comes up, you know, can I have your autograph? To Kobe. Two people, three people. Finally, there's New York. No, In Pennsylvania.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, in Philadelphia. Yeah. Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

So now it's a problem with Brandy. That's exactly right. Which was a very big deal back then. It was like, oh, shit. That's so prom with Brandy. That's nuts.

[Adam Friedland]

How does a kid do that?

[Wes Moore]

I know.

[Adam Friedland]

Imagine if I went to prom with Carmen Electra or something. I don't know. I don't know why that.

[Wes Moore]

Do you remember who you went to prom with?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, this girl that. Yeah, it was a disaster, the whole thing. She was a competitive swimmer, so she just got back from a meet, and in our prom picture, she looked way more jacked than me. And my mom also did my hair, and she used a. I had long hair. We don't have to get into it. The picture is a disaster.

[Wes Moore]

I really want to see this picture. Now.

[Adam Friedland]

I look terrible. But then we. Yeah, we had an aft. We had the afters at my house, and it was pretty cool.

[Wes Moore]

Oh, that's cool.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

So you actually did the afters for your prom?

[Adam Friedland]

I. I didn't get any. Just in case you were.

[Wes Moore]

Because you chose to do it.

[Adam Friedland]

The military.

[Wes Moore]

It was a military prom.

[Adam Friedland]

What's a military prom?

[Wes Moore]

It was what we call the ring dance.

[Adam Friedland]

The ring.

[Wes Moore]

The ring dance. Because when it happens is it's like you have your ring. Oh, this is still my summary.

[Adam Friedland]

Are there girl. You took it. Are there girls?

[Wes Moore]

Yes.

[Adam Friedland]

Co educational. Okay.

[Wes Moore]

No, it wasn't co educational when I was there. But you take. You took a girl from, like, the

[Adam Friedland]

neighborhood was the girls school across the lake, and then you do pranks on them. That's how I imagine being at all guy school.

[Wes Moore]

No, there was no girl. There was no girl school. Even though there was a military college there. And, like, right by there was, like, Cabrini Villanova was closed. We would always go to Philly. And so you got a chance to

[Adam Friedland]

get out for context, your mother had sent you to military school.

[Wes Moore]

When I was, like, 13 years old.

[Adam Friedland]

13 years old. You were like. You ran away from. You tried to be a regular Jane Fonda. You ran away from child soldier school.

[Wes Moore]

From child soldier school. Because it sucks. I mean, like, you go there and it's horrible. Like, they wake you up in the morning, they're screaming at you. They like, everything about your life is taken away. It was horrible.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And I'm like, wait, y' all pay for this, to do this to us so that you ended up liking it. I ended up loving it.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

Because I ended up needing it.

[Adam Friedland]

Really.

[Wes Moore]

And I didn't realize how much I needed it.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

You know, because you. Listen, I mean, things were hard, and I wasn't. You know, obviously I feel bad for the kind of kiddos, because my mom deserved a better son.

[Adam Friedland]

What were you. How bad were you Were that bad? You're being very bad.

[Wes Moore]

I was. Listen, I mean, I had. I had handcuffs, my Wristbands. I was 11.

[Adam Friedland]

But did you deserve it or not?

[Wes Moore]

Look, I could try to tell you that I didn't, but I probably did, right? Because, I mean, now that.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, you could say, yeah. What did you do?

[Wes Moore]

Well, in that instance, what happened was I was spray painting. I was tagging.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, that's. That's art. That's street art.

[Wes Moore]

Thank you.

[Adam Friedland]

I saw a bunch.

[Wes Moore]

That was my art.

[Adam Friedland]

I saw a bunch of, like, rich Brooklyn, part Park Slope kids at graffiti summer camp, like, a couple years ago.

[Wes Moore]

People get paid for it.

[Adam Friedland]

They're like, now you gotta throw up your tag.

[Wes Moore]

Exactly.

[Adam Friedland]

And did you tell the cop, it's one of the five pillars of hip hop and you're not doing anything wrong? That's not that bad. You did a graffiti.

[Wes Moore]

Could you imagine if I was?

[Adam Friedland]

You shouldn't feel like you're a bad son. Don't feel that your mom didn't think you were that bad.

[Wes Moore]

Well, I mean, I was. I was. I was. I was bad enough that. That. That she ended up sending me away.

[Adam Friedland]

Well, yeah, I guess I.

[Wes Moore]

And that sucked.

[Adam Friedland]

And it benefited you. The president, he also went to boy soldier school.

[Wes Moore]

He went to, I think, New York Military Academy.

[Adam Friedland]

Why did it. You think it worked on you, but it didn't. Why did it work on Donald Trump?

[Wes Moore]

Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't know. I don't speak for them.

[Adam Friedland]

Well, what do you think? Just speculate. Because if it was good for, like, structure in your life, is that. Yeah, like.

[Wes Moore]

Well, you know what, too, is like, like, for me, though, right out of military school, I actually joined the army.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

I think he went to Wharton, right?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. He was a college boy.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah. College boy.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. So you think he's a, he's, you think you're, you're more bad? It's more badass?

[Wes Moore]

No, I, I think, I think I just. We just have, we have different experiences.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And we have.

[Adam Friedland]

I wonder what it was like yelling at Trump in high school, like, but the, the. Can we find the drill sergeant? Trump's drill sergeant.

[Wes Moore]

How amazing would that.

[Adam Friedland]

Was he talking shit back? Was he like, fuck you? Yeah. Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

See, that's the thing.

[Adam Friedland]

That'd be insane, actually.

[Wes Moore]

That would be amazing.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

Oh, my gosh.

[Adam Friedland]

Bizarre to think about. Wait, so, so, yeah, I guess, like,

[Wes Moore]

I think you would have done well in military school.

[Adam Friedland]

Me?

[Wes Moore]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, my God, it would have been awful.

[Wes Moore]

I think you've done well.

[Adam Friedland]

No, the problem is, is that we can get to this later. But Jews aren't supposed to go to the army. We're not supposed to go to the war. That's why everything's bad right now. We're supposed to hide from the war. That's what we did for 1800 years, hiding from the war. We wrote books about hiding from the war. I thought it was interesting. You, you wrote about, like, how you, like, educationally. It kind of, like, also set you straight too. Like, you started reading and stuff like that.

[Wes Moore]

It was, it was because I was like, I was. It was really weird because it's like, I, I, I was not a very good reader. I was reading below grade level, and I just didn't enjoy it. And, And I give it to my mom. She was the one who really helped to crack that nut because she actually started having me reading stuff that I actually enjoyed. And once I started reading stuff I actually enjoyed, I actually then just got into it.

[Adam Friedland]

What did she give you?

[Wes Moore]

First book she gave me was a

[Adam Friedland]

book called Fab Five about Jalen Rose in them.

[Wes Moore]

There you go.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, cool.

[Wes Moore]

There you go. By Mitch album.

[Adam Friedland]

Sports.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, by Mitch album.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah. And I went through that book, and, and when I first read that book, she was like, let me just give this a shot. So she gives me the book, read it, and, like, two days later, she's like, did you Start the book. I was like, I finished it. And she's like, you finished it?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. It's a short book, though. You're fencing on that. It's like an 80 page book.

[Wes Moore]

She was shocked, but she was shocked. And then I was like. And then I'm sorry. Yeah. But then I started like defending. I was like, yeah, like Chris Weber and Jalen Rose and Jimmy Kang and Jawan Howard and Chris Jackson. Da, da.

[Adam Friedland]

It's nice of you to say Jimmy King.

[Wes Moore]

I did. He was like, why you didn't acknowledge,

[Adam Friedland]

you know, the sixth man is that year, Rob Pelinka.

[Wes Moore]

Rob.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

I felt bad because wasn't like a senior Rob Pelinka when. When they start. When they first came, because he was supposed to be a starter.

[Adam Friedland]

And all I know is that Jalen never existed before. He was the first Jalen. Did you know that? Jalen Rose, he's the first Jalen ever. And now it is the most popular name in the NBA and NFL, I hear. Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

I did not realize that.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, it's one of those Instagram reels everyone's been getting.

[Wes Moore]

Huh.

[Adam Friedland]

Did you know that Jalen Rose is the first? Yeah. I think it's mom combined two nips. It sounds nice as a name.

[Wes Moore]

It does. And I had no idea. And you're right now.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. Who? There's so many Jalen's. Yeah, yeah. Everyone's named Jalen, though.

[Wes Moore]

That's interesting. He was a great ball player.

[Adam Friedland]

We're getting off track, but like, so like, how did you like learn to love educated? I mean, you became a Rhodes scholar and stuff like that.

[Wes Moore]

I think there's a few things. Right. I think, you know, first I started realizing that that was. That was my escape.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

You know, it's like all the stuff I'm dealing with in life, all the anger, all the kind of stuff is like you can. Education really became this place. Not just when people say it's your pathway or whatever like that, like that's true, but what it is is like it's an escape. It allows you to go into different worlds, it allows you to go into different places. It allows you to imagine in new ways. And I think that's what reading and education really became for me. And I started realizing that the world was just bigger than what was just directly in front of me. And that gave me a whole new scope on what I wanted to do and what I wanted to be. And so that's one many ways I was like, that really helped to save me.

[Adam Friedland]

I Read that. You said you. You found yourself. There was a moment where you. You read the autobiography of Malcolm X. Yeah. And then you read Colin Powell's autobiography. Yeah. And you found.

[Wes Moore]

Really put them together. Right.

[Adam Friedland]

You found yourself oddly connecting more with Colin Powell.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and I, And I say that

[Adam Friedland]

because after the Iraq war. You can't be saying that. Dude, Malcolm X didn't go to the un.

[Wes Moore]

Actually, you know what's funny? It was before. It was before the Iraq war.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, so you just got in at the wrong time.

[Wes Moore]

Let's give you a break at the right moment.

[Adam Friedland]

Malcolm X never went to the UN And a million people because of a lie he told. I'm not saying it was Colabelle's idea. They made him. They made the one black guy do it.

[Wes Moore]

That is true. That is true.

[Adam Friedland]

That is true. Who are we going to throw to the wolves right now? Jesus Christ. So you found a way out, but then, but then you went to the military. When did 911 happen? Like in. In the.

[Wes Moore]

911 happened. I joined the army in 96. I got commissioned 98. And then. And then 911 happened three years after. And what was crazy was that 911 happened.

[Adam Friedland]

I. Oh, you got in the wrong time again.

[Wes Moore]

Well.

[Adam Friedland]

Well, this is gonna be a breeze.

[Wes Moore]

Well, it's true.

[Adam Friedland]

They're gonna pay for my dental.

[Wes Moore]

Exactly. I'm like, they're gonna pay. They're gonna pay for college and all that stuff. But when 911 happened and when I deployed, I. I was very honest with the people who I served with. I was like, listen, when I joined the army, none of this was going on.

[Adam Friedland]

I thought I was gonna be doing pranks on the base with the bullets

[Wes Moore]

because there was nothing going on. Right. Things like Bosnia and what I can think. That wasn't. That wasn't for the Army. That wasn't for the. For, for ground. That was an air war for the most part.

[Adam Friedland]

Right. That's because of Monica Lewinsky. Yeah, that's what I. Is that what they say it was? Kosovo.

[Wes Moore]

Kosovo.

[Adam Friedland]

Right. But it's like, look over. Anyway, continue.

[Wes Moore]

No, but it's. It's like. And then. But now I'm in Afghanistan serving with all these people and like, almost like to a person, when you ask them, you know, why did you join the Army? They're, they sing like, 9, 11. 9 11. Oh, yeah. No, I think. Well. Well, this was back when I.

[Adam Friedland]

Back in those days. Yeah. Because Pat Tillman.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, exactly.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And in some ways, that was actually my story. Right. Because my story, as you say is, like, as a. It has been a fascinating journey, but the thing that has always brought me back to my. My North Star has always been service.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

That I was always willing to give up or sacrifice if it meant I had the opportunity to serve. And when I first went back with, you know, went back with my. My unit, back with. With the 82nd in Afghanistan, I was actually working in finance. I was working for Deutsche Bank. I was doing debt, capital markets. I was making a lot of money, living in London, having a ball.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And I got a call from a person who ended up becoming my deputy brigade commander.

[Adam Friedland]

Your unit got called up?

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, well, yeah. So. So he was. He was with the 82nd Airborne, and he asked me, he said, said, when are you gonna get in the fight?

[Adam Friedland]

Right.

[Wes Moore]

And I was like, shit. Like, it's indicting. Like, I'd gone through all this training. I joined the army when I was 17 years old, and we're now a nation at war, and I'm sitting in London freaking banking. And I was like, he's right. When am I gonna get in a fight? And so I ended up leaving my job, the world of finance. I told my fiance that I got called up. She didn't realize that the draft wasn't a thing anymore, but I left. Violent liar.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, you lied to your partner. Write that down.

[Wes Moore]

I. I imagine what she would have said if I told her, I want to leave because I want to go. I mean, to Afghanistan.

[Adam Friedland]

If I told my mother that, she would have killed me.

[Wes Moore]

She would. She would have killed you, right?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. So do you think, like, what is the experience of knowing what a war is? Like, how does that inform, like, we're at war right now, Right?

[Wes Moore]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Going back to Trump, and most of

[Wes Moore]

this country doesn't even realize it, but,

[Adam Friedland]

like, a lot of the people that kind of make these decisions a lot of the time are people that don't know what a war is.

[Wes Moore]

Correct.

[Adam Friedland]

Right. Sounds like a stupid question, but what is a war? I can tell you it sounds terrible.

[Wes Moore]

Yes.

[Adam Friedland]

It sounds like one of the worst things, kind of. It sounds, like, awful.

[Wes Moore]

It is.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. It's horrible. Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And that's why it's like, listen, I mean, I think about. I think about, you know, I was a member of the 82nd Airborne Division. That's the unit that has just gotten called up.

[Adam Friedland]

Paratroopers.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Band of brothers.

[Wes Moore]

That's exactly right. One of the most storied units in the history of the United States military.

[Adam Friedland]

So you need to learn how to skydive for your thing.

[Wes Moore]

Yes. So people always say. It's like, so I jumped out of perfectly good airplanes.

[Adam Friedland]

Wow. Okay, wait. So keep going. I cut you off.

[Wes Moore]

But no, but it's when we go. The thing I know about the 82nd or the 101st or any of these military units is we're the best in the world.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

There's nothing we can't do. But that doesn't mean we should do it.

[Adam Friedland]

Right.

[Wes Moore]

Right. Like we can do anything, but it doesn't mean we can do everything.

[Adam Friedland]

On a simpler level, like you found yourself in combat. What is that experience?

[Wes Moore]

You know, I mean, it's.

[Adam Friedland]

Do I seem like a. Like a wimp right now? I mean, like, because I feel like when you're. John Kerry was in Vietnam, you know, like, people used to go back and then just tell Congress like this. It's terrible. Right. And we should, you know, and now I feel like I see politicians be like, oh, like, this is part of my resume. And it's just like, I think that, I don't know, public figures, like, kind of telling us what the ramifications of the decisions being made. I think is a pretty, like a public service, if you know what I mean. Like, that's what I'm kind of trying.

[Wes Moore]

Because we shouldn't take it lightly.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

It's like.

[Adam Friedland]

Like, why are we, in your opinion, why are we always at war just in one place in the world? Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

I don't know. And honestly, especially because we're not explaining to anybody what we're doing.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And that's why. And that's what means. One of the reasons that I have been so vocal and I'm so bothered by this war that is going on is we once again, are asking a very small percentage of the population and we are giving orders.

[Adam Friedland]

Poor people.

[Wes Moore]

Correct. Right. And we're giving orders without giving a mission. We're giving orders without giving a destination. We're just telling you, go do X, go do Y. But we're not explaining what does victory look like? And why are we asking the American people to be okay with your gas going up, your groceries going up, all this kind of stuff. And you haven't explained what we're doing or why we're doing it.

[Adam Friedland]

I'm just under educated, but what was the specified mission in Afghanistan? What did they tell you when you were there?

[Wes Moore]

So deployed, we knew that we had to address. Yeah. We had to address the Taliban. Right.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

That the Taliban was the government that was in place that allowed for Osama bin Laden and for Al Qaeda to be able to deploy attacks, so you had to be able to address the Taliban. Sure. But what gets me is this. And do you know who's in charge of Afghanistan right now?

[Adam Friedland]

The Taliban.

[Wes Moore]

The Taliban.

[Adam Friedland]

It looks like they're having fun. Does that, does it, does that piss you off?

[Wes Moore]

Absolutely.

[Adam Friedland]

Does it feel like you saw people die and then the Taliban are like on duck boats? You saw that picture? Yeah. And by the way, like having a vacation.

[Wes Moore]

Yes. And sitting there using equipment that we used.

[Adam Friedland]

Do you think that, that war, does it feel like as someone that participated in the longest war in American history, is that correct?

[Wes Moore]

Yes, it was. Does it turned into the longest war in American history?

[Adam Friedland]

As someone that was there seeing the Taliban back the next day, does it feel like, what was the, like, point?

[Wes Moore]

We got bin Laden when, 2012, 20, something like that. And then we left in What, President Obama's second term?

[Adam Friedland]

23, 24. When did, when we. Yeah, so I just, I suppose, like. And also Pakistan had him, right?

[Wes Moore]

No, well, no, he was right.

[Adam Friedland]

What, Tora Bora and then he snuck away. If you were at Tora Bora, you would have got his ass. You think you would have gotten that? I would have been there if I was you. Just looking for bin Laden, not listening to my commander.

[Wes Moore]

Like, I don't give a damn about none of this.

[Adam Friedland]

I'm going to wrap this up.

[Wes Moore]

We've been lad net. Where is, where bin Laden at?

[Adam Friedland]

I mean, no, but, but, but for real, like, emotionally, as someone that's a human being that was there and then seeing that it was the longest American war ever and seeing the result, like, does that, do you feel pissed off or do you feel like I shouldn't. I saw people die and then fucking that we.

[Wes Moore]

Listen, we lost over 24American, 2400American service people.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

Friends who didn't make it home. Many friends who made it home and will never be the same.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

We spent trillions of dollars. And I don't know if anyone could argue that we even still to this day had a very clear definitional understanding of what it is that we're accomplishing. So, and this is what, this is what makes me so, so nervous about what's going on in Iran. Like, we were promised no more of these forever wars, no more foreign wars. And what are we doing?

[Adam Friedland]

We've been at war in the Middle east pretty much since, I guess, most of my life. No.

[Wes Moore]

Yes. Yes, that is right. Maybe just about.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. So why, why, why are, why has that happened?

[Wes Moore]

There is this, there is this absolute obsession that we seem to have with deploying people overseas for foreign wars. And listen, I am someone who believes that there are times when military force is necessary and required. I understand that. And there are certain situations where military force is the best option to be able to address the issue. But military force should always be the last option. And that's the thing, I think for a lot of these folks, they do not understand and they do not get that military force should always be the last option. And you need to understand what are we trying to accomplish. And once you've accomplished it, move on.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And I'll say I give actually a lot of credit to the first George Bush because when you had the Iraq War. The first Iraq war, yeah. He was very clear about the objectives that he wanted to accomplish. Right. By Kuwait. Right. Very clear about the objectives, very clear about building the international coalition around it. Very clear that he felt that that was the last option because Iraq had then had violated international law. Right. So he knew there wasn't a negotiation that was going to get Saddam the move. So he went in, had had the Iraq. The first Iraq war lasted days, not months, not years. And when he accomplished his objective, even when he had advisors who told him, you can go further, he said, no, we've accomplished what I said we were going to accomplish and it's time to move on. Like, that is actually having a clear conversation with the American people, which is not what we're doing right now with Iran, where the goalpost keeps moving. We keep on saying, this is a victory, that's a victory. Getting rid of the Iranian navy or in the air force, as if that was like the eminent threat, the Iranian navy or the Iranian air force force. It's like, what are we doing?

[Adam Friedland]

It's oil, right?

[Wes Moore]

Correct. And not to mention, that's why when

[Adam Friedland]

he invaded Kuwait, we did. I mean, he was from the oil industry,

[Wes Moore]

but, but, but he was clear about what is the objective. And once we've accomplished it, we're moving on. We're. This is not going to turn into mission creep.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, I just, I suppose it's that. But to me, what do I know? But like, to me, it just seems like there are a lot of companies that are American companies, of course, that need us to be at a war so that they could be. So that they can make money.

[Wes Moore]

War, unfortunately, is big business, you know, like.

[Adam Friedland]

And we can get to it later in the interview. But like, when people say that we appropriated $25 billion to Israel, I think it's what's missed in the equation is that we paid American companies $25 billion and sent over weapons of war. Right. So I just. I. Yeah, I suppose. Like, what do you do about. Like, if there's this massive industry that requires people to be getting killed by stuff.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, it's.

[Adam Friedland]

What do you do about that? Like. Well, it's like Eisenhower warned, you know,

[Wes Moore]

it's a military industrial complex.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And the fact that you have. And there's also. There is a reason why you're supposed to have a. A commander in chief who serves as a civilian and not as a member of. Of the. Of the. Of the military. Because there does need to be that form of separation. We. And, And. And it goes back to the military being a tool. But the military should not be your end destination. Like, when I think about what is the point.

[Adam Friedland]

Right.

[Wes Moore]

It's the reason that you have soft power. It's the reason that you utilize diplomacy. It's the reason you utilize foreign. Foreign aid. It's the reason that you can. That. That you utilize cultural influence. All these are tools. And another tool is the military. The problem is we keep on pretending like the military is the only tool that we have or the only one that is worth using.

[Adam Friedland]

Well, it's also just a stimulus package

[Wes Moore]

for the economy, and that's for certain portions of the economy, because what's happening right now is we're all going to pay more. We're paying more on everything so we can keep on feeding the war machine. So when the president's coming back and asking for. He's like, I need another, you know, X billion for this war, or X billion to be. It's like, but wait a second. You're gonna do that and cut our health care?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

Like that. Money's not gonna come from nowhere. Something is gonna get cut. And what's getting cut are the basic services that we rely on and the things we actually want so we can fight wars that we don't.

[Adam Friedland]

I just realized I have a dandruff dude. Oh, it's. It's.

[Wes Moore]

It's all. It wasn't completely gone.

[Adam Friedland]

It was terrible. You should have warned me.

[Wes Moore]

On that shoulder, not on that one.

[Adam Friedland]

I don't know, but at least I'm not bald. I'm so. I don't know why I said that.

[Wes Moore]

Because it's true.

[Adam Friedland]

No, we were just. I mean.

[Wes Moore]

Can I tell you, though, I've been shaving my head since I was a teenager.

[Adam Friedland]

Because of Michael?

[Wes Moore]

Because of military. No, Jordan. Well, that too.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And I. I ain't gonna lie. Like Honestly, that was another thing about the Fab Five. The Fab Five. One of the things we loved about them wasn't just the back. They're good. They're all shaved their heads, the baggy shorts, the black socks, the trash as a bald guy.

[Adam Friedland]

That. That felt a lot.

[Wes Moore]

Those are my guys.

[Adam Friedland]

But if you grew it out, it

[Wes Moore]

would be crazy looking.

[Adam Friedland]

Why? What is LeBron doing, by the way? Just let. If he did a Clyde Drexler little, like the c. Like fro thing. Yeah. And he was just cooking guys, it would look so awesome. Did you get. Do you get to go to USO show?

[Wes Moore]

I have not been to a USO show in a long time.

[Adam Friedland]

When you were at the war, do

[Wes Moore]

you have a lady with a fan

[Adam Friedland]

pushing her skirt down and stuff? They didn't have that happy birthday, Mr. President. Dude. Bob Hope. Do you get Bob Hope?

[Wes Moore]

We did not get Bob Hope.

[Adam Friedland]

Did you get Jeff Ross, the roastmaster General?

[Wes Moore]

We did not get Jeff Ross.

[Adam Friedland]

You had to think about it. It sounds like he was one of those guys.

[Wes Moore]

No, he got torn.

[Adam Friedland]

You probably got a good lineup.

[Wes Moore]

We got. I'm trying to remember who we got. But you know what's funny, though? One thing I tell people when they're like, well, you know, when this person visits or that person visits. We never really liked VIP visits.

[Adam Friedland]

What do you mean you didn't like.

[Wes Moore]

So, like, when the secretary of defense or the president or whatever, like that came to the. To the base, it was never an enjoyable thing for the troops because first

[Adam Friedland]

of all, you had to suck up.

[Wes Moore]

You had to suck. All the real work stopped.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

Because you had to make sure that everything looked nice and all for Wolfowitz. Paul Wolfowitz. That's a black.

[Adam Friedland]

You ever. You got to meet. You got to meet Rumsfeld.

[Wes Moore]

I did.

[Adam Friedland]

That guy used to get so irritable. It was funny. Stop asking me questions. Was funny.

[Wes Moore]

I never met him until. I didn't meet him when I was.

[Adam Friedland]

Until you worked at the Bush administration.

[Wes Moore]

Until I worked for the Bush administration. Until I worked as a White House fellow.

[Adam Friedland]

What is that program like? It's a prestigious program for all of it.

[Wes Moore]

So basically what you do is you work as a senior level advisor to a cabinet secretary or agency head in administration. But it's not. Is not political because they're not saying, okay, you're. We're picking Republicans or Democrats. Like, I worked for the Bush administration and I worked for Secretary Rice when I was there. And so it was amazing because, like, I worked. I saw a year in Afghanistan, seeing how policy was implemented.

[Adam Friedland]

What's Rice like? What's she all about?

[Wes Moore]

I really like her.

[Adam Friedland]

She's nice.

[Wes Moore]

She's very nice. She was like. She really became a very real mentor for me. She's a. She's a. And the thing I would say about. Yeah, we're still in touch.

[Adam Friedland]

You text, Right. What's she up to? Where's she at? Where is she at?

[Wes Moore]

She's in California.

[Adam Friedland]

Do that. Do you think those guys feel bad

[Wes Moore]

about what's going on right now?

[Adam Friedland]

No. About what?

[Wes Moore]

I mean, about what happened when they were there.

[Adam Friedland]

Think. I mean, over a million people died.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah. No.

[Adam Friedland]

I mean, that's kind of first ballot hall of fame hell, if you ask me. I mean, it.

[Wes Moore]

No, it's. It's. Listen, I think that there's a. When you look at the history of this country, and. And I do think it's important for people to realize, like, loving this country doesn't mean lying about its history.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

You know what I'm saying? Like, this country has gotten a lot wrong before.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And I think it actually is important for us to be honest about that, because if not, then we're just going to keep on doing this. Like, you've got to actually learn lessons. And I feel like right now, one of the issues I have with what's happening with Iran is there seem to be no lessons learned about how. About how our military is used, about what is required from the people when we are a nation at war and we just keep on doing this over and over and over again and no lessons are being learned.

[Adam Friedland]

We're probably just buying a lot of, like, bombs and shit.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah. Good people. People are benefiting from this. Yeah, people are benefiting from. When we're at war. People are benefiting when we continue to allow this to happen and allow this to exist. And it's not. It's not fair to the people who were involved in the warfare. It's not making us stronger as a country or in the international community, and it's not fair to these families.

[Adam Friedland]

You worked with USAID when you were in the Bush administration, right?

[Wes Moore]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

That was one of the first DOGE cuts, if I remember.

[Wes Moore]

It was. Yeah, it absolutely was. And it was something that had a huge impact on Maryland because a lot of Those people at USAID, they're Marylanders.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, yeah. They're federal workers. D.C. yeah.

[Wes Moore]

We've had over 35 or over 31,000 federal workers fire to Maryland. This just this year alone, more than any other state in the country.

[Adam Friedland]

What have you done, like, is there something. You guys have helped them out?

[Wes Moore]

We have. So we've actually been very aggressive in terms of placing them into available, necessary state jobs, working with the private sector. We did something called our feds to EDS for our federal workers, which is actually saying we have a teacher shortage in our state. Every state does. But basically saying, if you're a federal worker and you're interested and qualified, we're like, get them trained, get them certified, get them in classrooms. And we've actually been able to cut our teacher shortage in half in the state of Maryland. And some of those people have been federal workers who've then chosen to go into the classroom. And so we've been really aggressive to make sure we're taking care of our people.

[Adam Friedland]

Looking at your career, like. And we mentioned this earlier, but, like, you know, bridging you being deployed and then you also working in finance and then also working, like, as. For a fellow in a fellowship for the White House, also getting a Rhodes scholar. How'd that feel? Roads. Rhodes.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, road.

[Adam Friedland]

I mean, he's the architect of apartheid, right? Well, you know, my family's from Cape Town. We had to. We left during apartheid because it was up.

[Wes Moore]

Your family. Your family left at a horrible time in that.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, my dad got. Well, my dad got called up to go to Angola to the civil war, which was like a. Yeah, my mom was. You know, he was like, on a list somewhere. But, like, it is. I. When I read that you were a Rhodes scholar, I was like, is that Cecil Rhodes? Literally, it is Cecil Rhodes.

[Wes Moore]

And people forget he was with the wealthiest man in the world at the

[Adam Friedland]

time he started De Beers.

[Wes Moore]

He started De Beers.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And in fact, the last. The last question I got from my roadside franchise.

[Adam Friedland]

Black people.

[Wes Moore]

I mean, like, literally, where. In fact, this guy named Steve Pfeiffer asked me a question in my Rhodes My Last Words committee, and he said, you know, you have been to South Africa. Because I lived in South Africa for six months.

[Adam Friedland]

Where?

[Wes Moore]

In Cape Town, Langa. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was like, you're African American. You know the history. And he said, how do you feel comfortable accepting a Rhodes scholarship?

[Adam Friedland]

It's kind of history.

[Wes Moore]

It's kind of chill, and it is. And. But it's a German girl once.

[Adam Friedland]

And I was like, this is kind

[Wes Moore]

of sick, this guy.

[Adam Friedland]

What about that, huh?

[Wes Moore]

Well, you know, when I told you like that. Well, you know, I told him. I said. I said, I'm very familiar with the history of Scottish. But I said. I said, you know, One of the things that helps me be okay with where I'm at right now is that, like, first of all, I know he is spinning in his grave because when he created the Rhodes Scholarship, he never intended me to get it. And I said, also, I'm thinking about all the people who had to sacrifice in order for me to be a finalist for this scholarship. And what would I be saying to them if I were to turn my back on this?

[Adam Friedland]

So they changed the name of the Colin Powell Scholarship, in your opinion? You think that's.

[Wes Moore]

Well, listen, as a private scholarship, you can call it what you want, but it is important that people know its history. Like people. People need to know who he was if they are going to go and apply to receive that money.

[Adam Friedland]

So what? So I guess, like, the first thing that brought you to prominence, Is that correct, is the book you wrote about the other Westmore.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah. Prominence. Wow. Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

Is that a big word? You're from the Rhodes Scholarship? Why are you gassing me? I haven't read a book since Harry Potter. Eight, bro. I listened to them. No, I mean, like, you saw, there's a gen. There's someone that's from your neighborhood, your age. Is that correct?

[Wes Moore]

Yes. Well, he's. He is. He's a little bit older than me. And when I was. In fact. When I just received the Rhodes Scholarship. Yeah, my. My mother. In fact, I was in South Africa at the time, and she said. She said, I have something to tell you. She goes, there are wanted posters in. In your neighborhood.

[Adam Friedland]

So you got. You thought that they were gonna take you out of college. Well, you were gonna. They were gonna throw you in the slammer.

[Wes Moore]

Well, she was like, and they're looking for Westmore. I was like, really?

[Adam Friedland]

Really?

[Wes Moore]

She was like, yeah. I was like, well, I'm in South

[Adam Friedland]

Africa and what have you done this time?

[Wes Moore]

God damn you, what have you done?

[Adam Friedland]

What did you break dance? What is this? This bastard son of mine.

[Wes Moore]

I'm done with you now.

[Adam Friedland]

The worst boy ever. A hero war. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Wes Moore]

No, then that. That was. That was how I first learned.

[Adam Friedland]

So who's it. Who is the other Westborg?

[Wes Moore]

He's a. He's a gentleman. But it was a young man who was. He was. He was born. I was not born in Baltimore. He was born and raised in Baltimore. And around the same time that I received the Rhodes Scholarship, he was involved in a robbery of a jewelry store.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And it was four guys who robbed a jewelry store. And in the process of robbing the jewelry store, an off duty Police officer was killed. And this off duty police officer, I mean, he was a legit hero. Like, he was a 13 year vet of the Baltimore police force. He was a three time recipient of police officer of the year.

[Adam Friedland]

He was good police.

[Wes Moore]

He was good police.

[Adam Friedland]

That's what they say.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah. Good police. And he was a father of five.

[Adam Friedland]

Really just had triples. Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

So. But he was at. He took this second job because he needed to take a second job because he had now five kids and he was working security at a jewelry store. And when they robbed the jewelry store, he was. He was shot and killed.

[Adam Friedland]

So you were arrested. It was a big mix up. No, I mean, so you got to know the other. The other West Moore.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, I got. I got to know him. So I wrote. I wrote him a note and then. And then a month later, I got a note back.

[Adam Friedland]

And what'd he say?

[Wes Moore]

Well, you know, it's funny, I asked

[Adam Friedland]

him all the questions. Was he like, you're a nerd. I'm cool. Like, did he treat you like a nerd?

[Wes Moore]

No, I think he must have treated

[Adam Friedland]

you like a nerd.

[Wes Moore]

Maybe a little bit. Maybe a little bit.

[Adam Friedland]

He was good at school. Guy coming to write a book about how good he is at school.

[Wes Moore]

Well, initially, how bad are you? But initially it was really just us. Like, we were just like talking and getting to know each other and. But the thing that always amazed me about Wes is, is whenever we would communicate and we talk and he would ask questions like, so tell me about your wedding or tell me about your words. So I'll tell him, you know, me and my wife and I. Dinner. Where'd y' all go to dinner? Would y' all eat?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And I realized that sometimes I'm like, myself. Like, that's kind of an odd question, but I was like, yo, it's like. But for him, it's actually not an odd question.

[Adam Friedland]

Right.

[Wes Moore]

For him, it's actually like. It's opening up a world that he never experienced. And so I. And I think, you know, those letters turn into visits. And, you know, I've now known him for.

[Adam Friedland]

How's he doing now?

[Wes Moore]

Decades. He's still incarcerated? Yeah, he still. He ended up getting life without parole.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. That's a long. It's terrible. It's.

[Wes Moore]

I mean, it's. It's, you know, and it's. It's in your. I mean, it's hard because I think about it where it's like, you know, listen.

[Adam Friedland]

I mean, so you're like, I got straight A's again. And then this, this other guy, he couldn't leave his room.

[Wes Moore]

Well, no, you know, it is. It's like, I just think about how thin that line is. Right.

[Adam Friedland]

Would you write a sequel? The Other Other Westmore? Because we find this guy and he posted. I think you could write a book about this guy. He's pretty interesting.

[Wes Moore]

The nc, the North Carolina basketball coach is named Westmore.

[Adam Friedland]

You're gonna write about him?

[Wes Moore]

No, he's a. Supposedly he's a very good coach too.

[Adam Friedland]

Well, this Guy Westmore, on January 6, 2019, he got four likes for this. He said four likes. I heart boobs.

[Wes Moore]

Oh, yeah, that's definitely the other Westmore on Facebook. That ain't me.

[Adam Friedland]

I think this is the sequel. We can investigate this boobs guy. Yeah, no, I mean, it became like a hit the book.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

My mother in law. Just, just so you know, I was talking to her on the phone this morning. You scored me major points.

[Wes Moore]

Really?

[Adam Friedland]

Because she's taught that book in New York City public school. Stop playing.

[Wes Moore]

No, it's amazing to me how many schools used it as mandatory reading. Like how many kids will come say, I read your book. I was like, did you have to?

[Adam Friedland]

Like, yeah, they didn't want to.

[Wes Moore]

But how many schools have actually made it like part of curriculum really, like, really wild? Well, you know, it's funny. When I ran for governor, I would do events and like 90% of people there be high school students. And I'm like, does anyone have any questions? And I'm like, like policy questions. And like in chapter four, like, I was reading assignments.

[Adam Friedland]

So he became governor so he could sell his goddamn book to these little kids. Oh, my God. You're just like the military industrial complex. You're doing it for books. Oh, my God. You're Eric Adams. You're Eric Adams. I know. Wait, but Oprah, it was Oprah Book Club.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, Oprah. Oprah. Oprah actually introduced it. She introduced the book to the world.

[Adam Friedland]

That's your friend.

[Wes Moore]

I love Oprah.

[Adam Friedland]

Yes.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, she's great.

[Adam Friedland]

How many points is she getting off this book? This. We just opened up a huge one.

[Wes Moore]

You should start a book club.

[Adam Friedland]

Was Oprah a book club?

[Wes Moore]

Yes.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. What am I going to make him read the game? Cut that, please. Cut that, please. Wait, I'm going to make fun of you for this.

[Wes Moore]

Okay?

[Adam Friedland]

You said that on January 6th, you called Oprah to say you're going to run for governor of Maryland.

[Wes Moore]

That actually wasn't what we did talk on January 6th. That is true.

[Adam Friedland]

You called Oprah to Be like, no, we were talking. She picked up.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

That's a famous woman. How many rings?

[Wes Moore]

She's very famous.

[Adam Friedland]

She picked up. She's like, wes Bor. Are you seeing this? And you're like, this is so funny.

[Wes Moore]

I'm literally talking. I'm talking with Oprah and the TV is right there. Like, I'm speaking Oprah. Yeah. And like, then the TV's on right there. I'm like. And we're talking on the phone. And I'm like, are you watching this?

[Adam Friedland]

Did you call people before Oprah or was she the first call? You could just call Oprah.

[Wes Moore]

Well, I didn't call her about January 6th. We were talking and then January 6th happened to be happening.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

While I'm on the phone with her.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, you had a, you, you had.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah, I didn't expect it.

[Adam Friedland]

It was like a calendar. Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

It wasn't like I was. It wasn't like January 6th and we're talking and like he squeaked.

[Adam Friedland]

He's. He snaked out of that one. Thank God you did that. Because if your brag was like. And then I had to talk to Oprah. No, your brack was like, it's just. There's capital Oprah.

[Wes Moore]

Can you believe?

[Adam Friedland]

No, no, no. So you had a call that day. That's so. That's crazy.

[Wes Moore]

And we were just talking then, like, but, but this was on the television.

[Adam Friedland]

And what did Oprah say?

[Wes Moore]

She's finally. We did it.

[Adam Friedland]

We did. Was all my idea. Oh, the plan has worked. Yeah. No, so wait, she.

[Wes Moore]

Where were you on January 6th, by the way?

[Adam Friedland]

I was, I was, I was far away.

[Wes Moore]

No, I'm not accusing you of being there, but, like, but what was your reaction when you were watching it?

[Adam Friedland]

I don't want to say to you because you're a real guy. I was saying this is what they think. They're going to beat the government.

[Wes Moore]

Is that what you thought?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. Like, what are these guys? They're going to go there and win. It's just like for Trump. Like, I was like, what these guys are. I felt bad for the guys kind of because I'm like, what they thought? Did they actually think they were going to win? They're going up there to win.

[Wes Moore]

I think they did.

[Adam Friedland]

How are they going to win? They have a caveman and a guy that farted on Pelosi's chair. They just started doing pranks in there, too.

[Wes Moore]

But I think they were the most

[Adam Friedland]

insane things that we ever. It was like, it was like an out of body experience.

[Wes Moore]

But they are being encouraged by the

[Adam Friedland]

President, but it's the government. They're gonna have mad guns and stuff. They're not gonna like. Right.

[Wes Moore]

But the command.

[Adam Friedland]

I felt bad for them that there was so. That they liked Trump so much that they were, like, just gonna go in there and do Jackass in the. In the Capitol building. Fart the guy who farted on Pelosi's chair or whatever. There was a video of people smoking weed. They're like, we're doing it, man. If I saw that when I was 13, I would have been like, this is what Sublime is talking about, dude. This is exactly. Those guys are the founding father. No, I mean, it was very strange and odd, and I felt bad for them that they were like, you know, a lot of those guys were, like, reading online that there was like, baby slaves in the basement and stuff. And, you know, I think since we were all in lockdown, I think people have gone a little bit crazy and we don't talk about it enough.

[Wes Moore]

I agree with you.

[Adam Friedland]

And I think that there's been a psychic toll that it's taken on people. And I think that there was always the phone, but, like, there was only the phone. And now people just went on the phone and now nothing is. No one believes anything is real.

[Wes Moore]

That's right.

[Adam Friedland]

It's pretty scary. We were about to have an election, and I'm certainly going to think this about your election against someone else, and I don't know. But no one's going to believe any elections anymore. Is that what's going to happen?

[Wes Moore]

Yeah.

[Adam Friedland]

How do you make people believe that? Like, it's normal?

[Wes Moore]

If you allow. If you allow people just go down these rabbit holes and just continue to get manipulated, that they're looking at information that is not actually educating them, but it's speech.

[Adam Friedland]

Right. How do you. How do you curtail free speech then?

[Wes Moore]

I think you have to provide a

[Adam Friedland]

better option, like a better Twitter.

[Wes Moore]

No, I think what you've got to be able to do is. So, for example, in Maryland, we made Maryland the first state in the country that has a service year option for all of our high school grads. Part of that is because I believe that service will save us. Part of it is because I believe that this is good workforce training. But part of it is I want people to be able to find ways of getting to know each other again and working together on things, because they

[Adam Friedland]

don't hang out anymore.

[Wes Moore]

They don't even hang out anymore. And it's part of the reason we're doing so much of this work that we're doing around young men and boys in Maryland is because I need them to get off of these devices and get to know each other again. Because this is very, very dangerous when you have these people who are just sitting there for literally most of the day staring at a screen. Like, I just feel like we know we went from this idea of we went from COVID to then, you know, to then kind of doing a partial societal opening, but without understanding a being able to really process what we just went through and then also thinking about but what is the right things that we should be asking from our society and how we're asking people to now participate in it. And I just think that we continue dealing with these, you know, dealing with the casualties of that.

[Adam Friedland]

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[Adam Friedland]

Do you ever just look up at Delaware and you're like, what the hell are you doing?

[Wes Moore]

All the time? Every day.

[Adam Friedland]

It's just like, you're. You're driving down 95 and then it's traffic every single time.

[Wes Moore]

Yeah. Yep.

[Adam Friedland]

Do you think.

[Wes Moore]

I don't get it.

[Adam Friedland]

Would you annex it, like Greenland, or should we give it to Philly?

[Wes Moore]

I mean, I've been saying. I've been. No, we'll take it. I've been saying, you'll take it.

[Adam Friedland]

You'll.

[Wes Moore]

I've been saying to the mayor of D.C. d.C. All the time. I was like, listen, who is it now?

[Adam Friedland]

Bowser.

[Wes Moore]

Bowser.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And I was like, I know y' all want to be a state, and, like, I'm all for D.C. statehood, but if they don't want to become a state, they should just become part of Maryland. Just become, you know, a very large

[Adam Friedland]

city you're trying to annex. You're trying to do a capital. You're trying to. You're trying to take. Steal the capital.

[Wes Moore]

Listen, I. I think. I think it'd be.

[Adam Friedland]

You are no different than that caveman on January 6th. I'm gonna call Oprah and tell her. Okay, I guess I had Gavin Newsom on the show, and I guess it's a fair. It's a. I'll ask a similar question. But, like, if someone. If you're meeting someone and they. You want to articulate to them what your political project is, like, what is the thing that you're working, that you're spending your life devoted to accomplishing? Like, how would you define that in child poverty?

[Wes Moore]

That's. To me, it's easy.

[Adam Friedland]

Child poverty?

[Wes Moore]

Yeah. That's the reason why I ran for governor.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

It's the thing. If I could end child poverty right now, I could literally close my eyes and never open them again and feel like this was a life worth living. Like. And that is a thing. I just do not understand how any society can allow child poverty to exist, especially the level that we allow in this country.

[Adam Friedland]

So, like, you're a leader of people. You're an elected official. Like. Like, if someone says, why should I bet on you? Like, what would you. What would you say?

[Wes Moore]

I say, because I do what I say.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

You know, I mean, like, it's like, if I tell you this is what we're going to do, we're going to do it. And so that's the thing I always tell the people of my state is like, I don't. As you can probably tell, I'm not like a traditional politician. I. I have not run for office. To office, to office, to office. I like, this is not. This is the first office I ever held in my life.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And you know, when I'm done, like, I'm. And I'll be very, very comfortable and good when my time is done. That's why I move with a sense.

[Adam Friedland]

How did you, like, learn the stuff for it if it was the first? You know, you just don't. Don't lie. Do. You knew what an omnibusman is?

[Wes Moore]

Ombudsman.

[Adam Friedland]

You knew that.

[Wes Moore]

I did. No. You know what's crazy?

[Adam Friedland]

A nerd that learns. You know what omnibusman is. Yeah. I can't even say it. Omnibus.

[Wes Moore]

I'm the busman.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

But you know what it is, like,

[Adam Friedland]

you're not telling me. He's lying. He doesn't. I like it if you don't know.

[Wes Moore]

No one should know what that is, what ombudsman is.

[Adam Friedland]

When you. You got to the State House, you're the new governor, and you're like, I've. I. There had to have been, like, things

[Wes Moore]

where you're like, oh, Adam, it was every day.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. You're like, what the hell is this? Where's this room go?

[Wes Moore]

Oh, no, it was every day that I was going in. And honestly, there's still things to this day that you're learning that I'm like, what is that?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, sure.

[Wes Moore]

Or relationships are like, oh, yeah. When. You know, when Mac so and so said. I'm like, who the hell is that?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

That happens every day as governor, but I'm good with that.

[Adam Friedland]

One of the things I think is most impressive in your career, especially in politics, is that you're running against a member of the Obama cabinet. Is that correct?

[Wes Moore]

That's right.

[Adam Friedland]

Tom Perez.

[Wes Moore]

Yep.

[Adam Friedland]

Two of them.

[Wes Moore]

And John King.

[Adam Friedland]

You had two on you.

[Wes Moore]

Two Obama cabinet secrets.

[Adam Friedland]

So you came in and you. In state politics, you established a ground game. And how did you win that election? I suppose, like, that's. What do you attribute that victory to? Like, as someone that outside. Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

I think one was Oprah. No, probably. I think one was. We just outworked them.

[Adam Friedland]

All the girls listened to her.

[Wes Moore]

All the girls do listen to her. But I think the other thing is, too, is that, like, I wasn't trying to be like one of them.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

Like, you know, I mean, like, I. I don't. I remember there was a Fourth of July barbecue where they invited all the candidates or whatever. Like, that and it was like 95 degrees and all the candidates showed up in their blazers and their whatever like that. And I showed up in, in, in. In shorts and a polo.

[Adam Friedland]

You dressed cooler than them.

[Wes Moore]

Well, I dressed because I was hot. And I'm like, I'm not wearing a suit. You know, I mean. And then I remember.

[Adam Friedland]

But how did you get people to meet you? I guess, like, how do they like you?

[Wes Moore]

I would just go everywhere and I would go a lot of places where there weren't a lot of Democrats. I would go a lot of places where, you know, even still to this day, where I remember I did a town hall a little bit ago in a place at a part of the state that I lost by 14 points. But that was my 17th time being back there since I've been governor. I just show up and I'm okay with being uncomfortable. I'm okay with hearing things that I did not know because I'm not trying to be a suit. I'm not trying to be one of these career Pauls. I'm just. I wanted.

[Adam Friedland]

What do you tell people when you meet them?

[Wes Moore]

Honestly, it's not even so much what I'm telling them. It's actually what I'm hearing.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

Because I want to go and listen.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

I want to hear what are the things that you care about, what are things you're working on and how can I help?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah. What if they say that they're baby slaves in the basement of the capital.

[Wes Moore]

I would probably say you gotta be. I don't think that's.

[Adam Friedland]

Come on, bro. But you're just on the computer too much.

[Wes Moore]

It's amazing. Some of the things you hear, though,

[Adam Friedland]

when people come up to you, it's crazy. It turns out that Diddy barely did anything. No, no, we'll cut that. We'll cut that. We'll cut that. What is wrong with me? Okay. I guess. Yeah. I asked you earlier. What. Why people should bet on you. And I think you made a compelling case. And before this interview, I looked up on calshi.com and they have you at a 2% chance to be the next nominee for President of the United States. And so that's why I want my listeners to go, not the other one, kalshee.com and we're going to do a new. We're going to do. Bet on Wes. Okay. I already, I already have a little bit on this. We're all going to go download the app or go to the website, cowshe.com. the numbers are looking good for us. And guys if you want like the studio to look a little bit nicer. Thomas has been leaving wires out. We can afford to do this if everyone hashtag, bet on Wes.

[Wes Moore]

But you know, but you know what, though? And I think it goes back to.

[Adam Friedland]

So he agrees. Bet on Wes Calshi or the app. How much you put down on this company card? I put the company card, Thomas. 10,000. You didn't say 10,000 to me. What are the numbers on that? Bet on Wes. You're gonna bet on yourself too.

[Wes Moore]

But you know, I'm double not betting on him.

[Adam Friedland]

No, we're gonna do real nice off this. He agrees. Bet on what?

[Wes Moore]

But you know, but you know what is crazy about it though? And seriously, think about it where it's like how corrupted this whole thing is.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

Because think about it, right? I'm like, if you look at where, where. And I haven't looked at it, but if you look at where my odds of winning reelection.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

They're probably pretty high, right? I mean, we're feeling pretty good.

[Adam Friedland]

You know, you've been going to church every week for this election.

[Wes Moore]

I go to church every week before the election. So. But they're probably pretty good, right?

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And. But what is to keep me from turning around and saying, you know what, I'm going to put a 250. Let's just do round, round numbers. $250,000 bet. Right.

[Adam Friedland]

Let's just say hashtag, bet on West.

[Wes Moore]

No. That I would lose reelection.

[Adam Friedland]

Okay.

[Wes Moore]

Now you lose and then I tank.

[Adam Friedland]

Oh, it's like the producers, correct? Yeah, yeah.

[Wes Moore]

And so if I did that. And so let's say again, I don't know what the numbers are.

[Adam Friedland]

Spring time for Hitler. I like this.

[Wes Moore]

But that, but is that, is that fair? If I were to put them, put a market down on me winning, losing reelection, then I go and intentionally tank reelection, and then I turn and walk away with $4 million.

[Adam Friedland]

Yeah, but what if you try to take. And they love you more? Right. And then you do like a Bullworth. It's like a Bullworth kind of thing, right? Or so. Yeah. So he's putting a 250 on this. Guys. Bet on Wes Kalshee dot com. They're not a sponsor of the show. Honestly, guys, it will be now if Trump's allowed to take $2 billion from Qatar for some shit coin, we may as well. It's the world's over. No one can do anything about it. Kalshee.com benef Thanks a lot.

[Wes Moore]

It's crazy. Thank you, brother. Thanks a lot.

[Adam Friedland]

Sam.