The Adam Friedland Show

Guest: Olivia Nuzzi

Episode: "OLIVIA NUZZI Talks Trump, Scandal, American Canto"

Date: December 17, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of The Adam Friedland Show features a candid, in-depth conversation with journalist and author Olivia Nuzzi, centering on her extraordinary political reporting career, her experiences covering Donald Trump, tabloid fame, the personal scandals that recently upended her life, and her new book, American Canto. The discussion navigates the blurred line between chronicler and subject, the personal toll of public notoriety, and the complexity of American political and journalistic culture in the Trump era.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Olivia Nuzzi’s Career and Covering Trump

• Early Start in Journalism:
  • Nuzzi recaps starting her career extraordinarily young, interviewing Trump for the first time in 2014 and being entrenched with the White House press corps by her early 20s.
  • Quote: “It was just… it’s easy when you have a mission… you never have to wonder if what you’re doing matters…” (12:20)
• Trump as a Character:
  • She describes Trump as both incredibly simple and fascinating—someone who orients the culture around himself, and who craves the energy and adoration of others.
  • Quote: "I’ve thought about your inner life so much more than you ever have." (10:45)

2. The Making of 'American Canto'

• The book is described as an “expressionist” collection, akin to a shoebox of snapshots from a decade of reporting, rather than a straightforward linear narrative.
• Influences include both comedy (“I loved Carlin, Pryor, Chappelle...”) and classic American reportage.
• Book structure draws on the “Divine Comedy” and reflects the personal and national upheaval of the Trump years.
• Quote: “It was this spiritual, moral event... about the spiritual process of understanding this ten-year thing, understanding my fuck up, understanding where I fit and where the corrosion of my character fit within this broader story about the corrosion of the American character in this ten-year period.” (70:12)

3. Trump: Personality, Power, and the Press

• Adam and Olivia explore the nature of the Trump rally: a combination of boomer loneliness, showbiz, and catharsis.
  • Olivia: “He’s energized by other people’s energy. He feeds off of it in a kind of vampiric way.” (17:12)
• The dynamics of interviewing Trump are likened to “dealing with a wild animal”—requiring vigilance and adaptation.
• Trump is obsessed with perception and is charming but manipulative; he seeks approval even as he derides the press.
  • Quote: “A politician is a man who wants to be loved more than other men, and through his pursuit reveals why he cannot love himself.” (28:35)

4. Reflection on Fame, Power, and the Journalist as Subject

• Discussion about the unhealthy celebrity status of modern journalists and the performative, often toxic, public drama between figures in the media.
• Nuzzi notes the paradigm shift wherein journalists are now major public figures—a phenomenon very much exacerbated by social media and the Trump era.
• Quote: “Journalists should not be famous… I stand by that statement and I will die on that hill.” (05:18)

5. Personal Scandal and Public Controversy

• The Kennedy Affair:
  • Nuzzi recounts her firing from New York Magazine after revelations of an "emotional and digital" affair with Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
  • She speaks frankly about the validity of journalistic ethics and why her dismissal was justified: “Those ethics rules exist for a reason. They’re good rules... there was a reason why people were really mad at me, and they were right to be.” (51:21)
• Ex’s Substack Accusations:
  • Adam probes the five-part Substack series by Nuzzi’s ex-partner, Ryan Lizza, which accuses her of being a political operative for Kennedy and of spiking stories.
  • Nuzzi adamantly denies the most serious allegations, including deleting a recording related to the Trump assassination attempt.
    • Quote: "That's not true." (56:21)
  • She identifies the campaign against her as personal harassment and character assassination:
    • Quote: “This is like... a harassment campaign that’s been going on for like 16, 17 months… I left that relationship, left this abusive dynamic. If he can't control my life from within, he'll try from the outside. And it was all a way of just like stepping on the book.” (54:35, 55:02)

6. Impact & Introspection: Surviving Public Shaming

• Nuzzi speaks at length about the experience and emotional process of being “witnessed” and shamed, and about reckoning with authenticity, culpability, and the necessity of not being “shameless” in the American public sphere.
• She expresses gratitude for the resulting personal growth, likening her career disruption to “the hand of God” redirecting her life for the better.
  • Quote: “The only thing really lost was public standing and a job rather than something much more serious.” (68:15)
• Nuzzi discusses learning to refuse to use others as “human shields” and maintaining “rules” for self-conduct amidst the scandal.

7. Media, Manipulation, and the State of Journalism

• Discussion on the evolution of journalism into a theatrical, personality-driven environment.
• Adam and Olivia address the proliferation of gossip, the ruins of objective expertise in politics, and how everything "matters so much," even if it doesn’t always seem so in the moment.
• Quote: “You don’t just wake up one day and make a big mistake… it’s probably gonna be preceded by imperceptible errors in judgment and a lot of letting things slide.” (66:30)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Trump’s personality:
  • “He’s singular. He’s strange… I realize, oh, I’ve thought about your inner life so much more than you ever have.” (10:45)
• On interviewing Trump:
  • “It’s like dealing with a wild animal… he’s sort of assessing in real time, like, what he thinks that you want or what you need. And so he’s trying to manipulate you.” (15:05)
• On being publicly targeted:
  • “This is like a harassment campaign… engaging the public and the rest of the world in this. I left that relationship, left this abusive dynamic… It seems like that person is still existing within it.” (54:35)
• On journalistic ethics:
  • “Those rules are good, and there was a reason why people were really mad at me, and they were right to be.” (51:21)
• On personal growth after scandal:
  • “It felt like the hand of God had come and like swatted me off the path that I was on. And I became very grateful for that.” (68:15)
• On maintaining perspective:
  • “Nothing can be taken from you that didn’t belong to you… The only justice is knowing that you do not share the qualities that the people who have behaved unjustly towards you.” (70:12)
• On being a subject vs. a chronicler:
  • “I spent so much of this 10 year period as like, officially cast as like a witness… and then to be someone who suddenly becomes witnessed… it’s this kaleidoscopic thing.” (74:18)
• On her relationship with Kennedy:
  • “I just fell in love with someone. And in the wrong circumstances, in the wrong person. Right. And I had to write.” (64:14)
• On the shift in journalism:
  • “There’s always going to be sort of friction when different practices are evolving on different mediums.” (09:42)

Segment Timestamps

• Intro and ads (00:00 – 02:39) (Skipped)
• Early reflections and banter (02:40 – 06:23)
• Interview introduction & Nuzzi’s background (06:23 – 10:07)
• Trump’s psychology and character (10:07 – 13:26)
• Nuzzi’s youth, background, and starting in politics (13:26 – 15:05)
• Inside the Trump White House; methodology for interviews (15:05 – 19:19)
• Trump’s need for rallies and the loneliness of power (16:55 – 20:04)
• Rally culture & energy; comparison with Democrats (17:12 – 18:24)
• Discussion of ‘American Canto’ and writing style (24:18 – 25:47)
• On journalism, celebrity, and media culture (08:40 – 09:42, 51:15)
• On scandal, Substack accusations, and public fallout (51:07 – 61:00)
• Consequences and personal reckoning (66:30 – 71:23)
• Reflections on trajectory, spirituality, and the future (69:12 – 71:23)
• Closing—reversal of roles: chronicler vs. subject (74:18 – 75:46)

Final Thoughts

In this unguarded, searching interview, Olivia Nuzzi offers not only a firsthand account of a tumultuous era in American politics—from the inside of both the Trump orbit and her own personal and professional storm—but also a meditation on accountability, character, and the psychological fallout of becoming the subject as opposed to the observer. Throughout, the episode maintains Adam’s characteristic irreverence and wit, balanced by Nuzzi’s candor and introspection, making it essential listening for anyone interested in the intersection of politics, media, and personal narrative in the post-2016 American landscape.