The Lost Episodes: MIA

Summary

The Adam Friedland Show – "The Lost Episodes: MIA" (August 5, 2026)

---

Episode Overview

In this "Lost Episodes" installment, Adam Friedland sits down for a candid, energetic, and deeply engaging conversation with musician, artist, and provocateur M.I.A. ("Maya"). The episode spans Maya’s creative journey from London art school to global stardom, her battles with industry exclusion, political controversy, spirituality, and creative resilience. Maya’s wit, vulnerability, and humor are on full display, as is Adam’s mix of irreverence and genuine admiration. The atmosphere is loose, alternately playful and profound, offering a rich mosaic of anecdotes, reflections, and laughter.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life, Art School, and Creative Formation

• Cultural Outsider at Central St Martin’s
  • Maya recounts her art school days in London, describing herself as both "weird and cool" ([03:13]).
  • She faced prejudice for not fitting the stereotypical art student look: "They would always have a group meeting saying Maya’s coming in with tight leggings and stilettos on and mini skirts." ([03:55])
  • She made experimental films in school, including a "weird film about numbers" ([03:55]) and reflects on early creative exploration.
• Navigating Identity and Parental Expectations
  • Adam asks how immigrant parents handled her artistic path ([09:58]). Maya says it was "kind of lonely," as no one in her family was from the art world.
• Mother’s Job & Full-Circle Irony
  • Maya’s mother, a seamstress, worked for the Royal Family, making medals ([10:24]).
  • Later, Maya herself received an MBE ("Member of the British Empire"): "My mum stitched my medal. Which is weird." ([11:04])

2. Breakout Creativity and Industry Obstacles

• From Art to Music
  • Maya discusses wanting to be a music video director rather than a musician ([15:18]).
  • She attributes her musical voice to honesty: "To me, that was important to be truthful." ([13:01])
• Struggles as a Brown Woman in Music
  • Labels and stores didn’t know how to "shelve" her music: "They would come to Excel and say... we don’t know where to put your record. And...just not gonna sell your records." ([28:09])
  • Piracy and Limewire ironically helped: "Thank God for the internet at that time. Piracy helped me because it got me on chat rooms." ([29:52])

3. Collaborations, Influences & Inspirations

• Musical Influences and London in the 90s
  • Early love for hip hop, dance, and indie: "I was listening to hip hop... dance rave music... Oasis, Radiohead, The Verve." ([14:32])
  • Inspired by artistic music videos, especially Radiohead’s and Björk’s ([15:41]).
• Artistic Collaborations
  • Worked with Diplo, Missy Elliott, Timbaland, Madonna, Lauryn Hill, among others ([31:42]).
  • On Kanye West: "He was the most open minded out of all the rappers. He was just hungry to know everything." ([33:00])
• Underground Comedy and Odd Choices
  • Defended Chris Rock’s CB4 in art school, to disapproving professors: "I presented CB4...And then everyone’s like, absolutely. Kick her out now. Kick her out." ([17:04])

4. Controversies, Cancellations, and Resilience

• Radio and Political Blacklisting
  • Recounts her debut single "Sunshowers" being banned for references to the PLO: "The FBI went and, like, dug out all this stuff...That happened because of the Sun Showers song." ([26:19])
  • Ongoing scrutiny: "Since then...I get called into immigration all the time and interrogated all the time." ([26:19])
  • Adam: "The stuff you get in trouble for is kind of bullshit." ([26:36])
• Super Bowl & Media Reaction
  • Infamous Super Bowl middle finger: "My lyric was I don’t give a shit. So it’s not even the biggest...it’s not the same as...a suicide bombing." ([27:06])
  • The label's inconsistent standards: "Interscope kept taking [the gunshots in 'Paper Planes'] out, and then we just kept fighting." ([23:38])
• Cultural Double Standards
  • On why controversy hits her harder: "It’s different when it comes from a brown woman. A baddie is very baddie stuff to do." ([23:55])
• Public and Media 'Cancellation'
  • Adam reflects on major stars like Sharon Stone fading after being seen as "uncontrollable women": "If you're a woman, that's a little bit too...that can't be controlled, does it serve as a disadvantage at a certain point?" ([39:11])
  • Maya: "You are not the problem, but you are the target. And why are you a target? It boils down to spirituality...it is a spiritual warfare." ([39:23])
  • On being continually targeted: "The they in my case is many different types of people...it’s not the, you know, quotation marks. It’s...division, division, everywhere and hate everywhere." ([42:46])
• Creativity as Spiritual Gift
  • "That's my gift. God gave me that. No one has the right to take that away. And no one can. They don't have the power to do that." ([44:21])

5. Artistic Philosophy, Technology & Clothing Line

• Embracing & Critiquing Technology
  • Maya describes the duality of her background: from picking fruit off trees in Sri Lanka ("the most organic life in the world" [47:57]) to inventing digital self-documentation ("I was a content creator...before social media" [50:15])).
• Health, Radiation, and Fashion
  • Maya’s new clothing line Omni uses copper mesh: "The sperm count in men has gone down 60%...because people put cell phones in their pocket." ([46:44])
  • Points out ancient uses of copper for health: "In the ancient times, the yogis used copper. It’s an antibacterial method." ([52:02])
  • Adam jokes about "RFK Jr vibes," Maya responds: "He’s not the only one who knows about this stuff." ([47:01])
• Art, AI, and the Future
  • Considers the definition of an artist in the AI era: "Is the genius somebody who uses AI or is the genius somebody who absolutely resists it?" ([34:30])
  • On India’s "sound clash" subcultures and radical sonic experiences: "You go there and your particles literally get rearranged...people go deaf for like, three, four days."[35:52]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Art School Alienation:
  • "They would always have a group meeting saying, Maya’s coming in with tight leggings and stilettos on and mini skirts." – Maya ([03:55])
• On the MBE Medal:
  • "My mum stitched my medal. Which is weird." – Maya ([11:04])
• On Artistic Honesty:
  • "To me, that was important to be truthful." – Maya ([13:01])
• On Breaking In:
  • "Thank God for the Internet at that time. Piracy helped me because it got me on chat rooms." – Maya ([29:52])
• On Industry Exclusion:
  • "We don’t know where a brown woman fits because you don’t fit with the white thing and you don’t fit with the black thing and we don’t know where to put you. And you ain’t Dessi either. Like, you’re not making Indian music, you know, so we’re not gonna put you anywhere and we’re just not gonna sell your records." – Maya ([28:09])
• On Political Scrutiny:
  • "The day I put out Sunshowers, the FBI went and dug out all this stuff...because they wanted to find something on me." – Maya ([25:21])
• On Controversy as a Creative Woman of Color:
  • "It’s different when it comes from a brown woman. A baddie is very baddie stuff to do." – Maya ([23:55])
• On Spiritual Resilience:
  • "That’s my gift. God gave me that. No one has the right to take that away. And no one can. They don’t have the power to do that." – Maya ([44:21])
• On Cancellations and Moving Forward:
  • "Every time somebody does that, something else pops off… you just can’t be cancelled because the entire thing moves." – Maya ([30:23])
• On Her Clothing Line:
  • "This is a clothing line basically that came out two years ago. And it’s made of metal, you know...copper and this is copper." – Maya ([45:05])
• On AI, Pop, & What's Considered Art:
  • "If art is only judged through what’s poppin on TikTok...Bob Dylan would not make it...even me..." – Maya ([37:40])
• On Love & Faith:
  • "I thank God. Found unlimited amount in God." – Maya ([57:55])

---

Highlighted Segments & Timestamps

• Art School & Identity: [02:10]–[05:56]
• Royal Family & MBE: [10:20]–[12:12]
• Early Music Path: [13:27]–[16:13]
• Industry Pushback & Piracy: [18:42]–[29:52]
• Political Controversy: [23:38]–[28:06]
• Super Bowl & Public Backlash: [26:45]–[27:18]
• Internet as Equalizer: [29:39]–[31:08]
• Collaborations & Influences: [31:32]–[33:39]
• AI & Modern Art: [34:19]–[38:18]
• Technology, Health, & Metal Clothing: [45:05]–[53:41]
• Cancellations, Spirituality & Resilience: [39:23]–[44:21]
• Clothing, Materials, & Ancient Wisdom: [52:02]–[52:44]
• Faith, Love, and Final Reflections: [57:55]–[58:54]

---

Final Thoughts

Adam and Maya’s conversation is a unique blend of humor, candor, subversive insight, and warmth. Maya shines as a multi-dimensional artist whose career—marked by both critical acclaim and frequent controversy—emerges here as a story of individuality, perseverance, and spiritual conviction. The episode is refreshingly unfiltered, rewarding listeners with rare personal truths and cultural critique, and is a testament to both Maya’s enduring influence and Adam’s intuitive, funny approach as a host.

---

Selected Moment:

• Adam: "The stuff you get in trouble for is kind of bullshit." ([26:36])
• Maya: "That’s my gift. God gave me that. No one has the right to take that away. And no one can." ([44:21])

---

This Lost Episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersections of pop culture, identity, and creative survival in the 21st century.

Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Vuori. I got to give Vuori some credit. They don't make you choose between comfort and looking sharp. Their core shorts work for basically everything, whether you're working out or just creating the impression that you work out. And the stratotech tee is so soft that you'll want to take it off only to wash it. Really good stuff. Get 20% off your first purchase at vuori.com tafs and discover the versatility of Vori clothing exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. Get your tickets now for the Dog Stars. It's no surprise how fast civilization can disappear out there still. Or be killed. Jacob Elordi. There are people out there. They need our help. Josh Brolin. Shoot first and inquire afterwards. Margaret Quali.

[B]

Okay, tough guy.

[A]

And Guy Pierce.

[B]

Arm up.

[A]

The Dog Stars, directed by Ridley Scott. Theaters August 28th.

[B]

Get tickets now.

[A]

Rated R under 17 unemmitted without parents. Welcome back to the Adam Friedland Show. This is the second week of our Lost episode series. On the 26th of August, season three premieres. Folks, this week's episode is with Mia. I was. I went to London for a soccer game at from my bachelor party. And I'm disgusting. I was sick, and I'm sitting next to this angel. But it's a really good episode. I just watched it this morning. It was really good. You'll enjoy it. So that's probably why we didn't release it, I don't know. But also, New York Comedy Festival, November 27th. Town Hall. Get your tickets at AdamFreeland Show. Thanks a lot, guys. Enjoy the episode. It's good. That's why you sound sarcastic. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to welcome Mia. Give it up for her. You really brought an entourage today. Hi.

[B]

Hi.

[A]

Hi, Maya. Thanks for coming on.

[B]

Hi, Adam.

[A]

I'm a big fan. I was telling you on the phone yesterday, you strike me as a person that everything you try, you're good at. Is that right? Oh, you just can do it. Like you didn't want to be a musician, you just did it. Is that right? You want to be a filmmaker?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. It takes a lot of money to make a film.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, how am I gonna do that? You know?

[A]

And then I talked to a filmmaker. Cause I thought he might have met you today, but he said that I think you just are a fan. But I wanted to know if you guys met. I took some harmony today.

[B]

Harmony? Corinne.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God. I'm a Namboam fan.

[A]

He said, say what up? Yeah. And you like Dogma 95 too. Those are. That's your vibe.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Hearing that you went to Central St Martin's which is like the art school in the UK. Were you like, you were cool growing up or were you weird?

[B]

I was both. I was weird and cool. But Harmony Corrine made weird cool as well.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

It was perfect. It was that perfect time. I was like 18 when he made. Or maybe 17, 18 when he made kids.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it just.

[A]

That made me afraid of having sex,

[B]

you know, that there was a tiny little thing where weird, cool people belonged and it was nice.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Do you have, like, early film projects from school still that you still have access to?

[B]

I am. I just. I don't know. Somewhere in my mum's attic maybe.

[A]

Yeah. Do you remember what they were?

[B]

Oh, God, yeah. I made this weird film, obviously, and it was about. It's funny. It was about numbers. Okay. So I was trying to work something out. I was really. I was. I was. Okay. So if you did film at St. Martin's yeah. You kind of had to be a lesbian, you know? And I would go in with stilettos and shit like that. And they were like, she needs to be kicked out of college. So they would always have a group meeting saying, maya's coming in with, like, tight leggings and stilettos on and mini skirts.

[A]

So you're talking about the prejudice you experienced.

[B]

Yeah. So they were like, she's not serious about movies. She needs to get kick out. So she's.

[A]

Cargo shorts. Yes.

[B]

And a plaid shirt. Like, everybody was sort of like that. And like, you know, at that time, it was really fashionable to shave all your hair. So everyone had, like, skinheads and trying to look like aliens and things. And then.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then there was me that was kind of like listening to hip hop and, you know, and R and B and would be wearing stilettos. But also, like, I did go through a mullet phase and stuff like that, but then. But I was experimenting.

[A]

You're finding your thing. You're experimenting.

[B]

I was finding my thing. And so I realized that the best films to make were materialist films where you affect the film, which means that your creativity became more about not writing shots down and making narrative movies or I didn't want to do, like, highly conceptual movies either. So it was more about, like, how to invent a style in the way you.

[A]

You're fucking around.

[B]

Yeah. It's like the physical form of the film, you know, like it was an art degree as well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the first one I made was about numbers and it was about this. This setting up this. Funny enough, it's like setting up a narrative, but the narrative was just about this guy, say, like playing the lottery or something. Yeah. But each scene, the way he chooses the numbers is just a weird way. Right. But the narrative of the film sets you up that he's one thing, but then at the end it's something else. Totally. So it's kind of like a.

[A]

And did you earn the respect of the lesbian community or.

[B]

I didn't, I didn't.

[A]

They're a tough one.

[B]

No, this is what happened. The actor that I casted to do it, I swear to God, I filmed the stuff. He was really like, cool and everything. And then like my friend, or the year after, my friend who was in the same class, she ended up becoming like the first porn director for Channel X. Who she was called.

[A]

She's a porn.

[B]

She was doing porn while we were at St. Martin's and I'd cast this actor to be in this numbers film that I was making. And then a year later, she's like, kat, you know, my cameraman dropped tat. Can you come and help me do camera Today you shot a porto. So I went to do camera, but I was very highly opinionated about like the lighting and this and that. You know, I've been obsessed about material filmmaking and so I was like, not interested in the narrative.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then there's a knock at the door. The actor arrives and I open the door and it's the same actor. Right.

[A]

And then you go to see him having sex.

[B]

Yeah. And basically he couldn't have sex in front of me because he already knew me kind of thing. So then she fired me on the set and she was like, you need to leave and get out.

[A]

You can't get hard.

[B]

Yes, exactly. So then that was my very short lived. So I've tried different things.

[A]

Yeah, but you started doing visual arts. You were making like album artwork and stuff, like graphic arts and stuff. Is that correct? And you just smashed that. And then what, you just became a musician? I mean, it doesn't seem. Yeah, there's something very charming about. It's like the kind of girl that you, like, fall in love with and she ruins you because she's just so amazing. But then she goes like, oh, I have to go to Europe with a married man. And you're like, okay, fine, what is wrong with me? You were with a journalist that took you around to different genocides I wasn't with him. There's a song about it. Right.

[B]

I was pining.

[A]

But what I'm saying is, like, you had this. Like, that was my past.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm just saying, you. You. It's. What's clear is, like, there's this. I have this image in my mind of, like, you just, like, going through life and just, like, being purely creative and, like, trying out different things and then kind of. Because it is a very rare thing to, like, for someone to just have a knack for any creative arts that they apply themselves to. Although that numbers movie, I don't know about that, but.

[B]

Yeah, no, it wasn't good.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

But, like, you know, I was trying something that, you know, I was trying to figure out how, you know, it actually became a Hollywood formula of the next whatever, you know, like to set up a narrative and there's a twist at the end, like, yeah, sure. That became a thing.

[A]

Shot a lady.

[B]

Exactly. He's a pro at that. So that's. It's a thing. But, you know, at that time, my first year, I was trying to do that. But then anyway, because obviously my dad's not from the art world. You know, he's a politician and he's a writer and things like that.

[A]

Yeah. How did immigrant parents handle you being

[B]

a part of that? Yeah, exactly. So it was the first time someone had done that. So it was kind of lonely. Even though you say, oh, you're just rolling around being creative and expressive.

[A]

I mean, you must have been thrilling to be around in those days. I don't know. I'm sorry if.

[B]

Also weird, you know, because you go home and your family are like, that's the best.

[A]

Your mother was a seamstress for the Royal Family?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Cause she made medals. Is that correct?

[B]

Yeah. Because during the time I was living in the council flat, my mom looked in the paper and the only job that didn't require English was the sewing thing. And my mom's always been a seamstress, even in Sri Lanka. So her and my cousin applied for the job and they both got it. And it was around the corner from

[A]

my school, and they chilled with the

[B]

Queen of England, and they would just sit in a room and sew these medals. And it's, like, so bizarre, you know, I didn't really.

[A]

Well, you got. What is it called? MBE.

[B]

Yeah. So the full cycle.

[A]

What does it mean?

[B]

Is that my mum stitched my medal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is weird.

[A]

What is it called?

[B]

What does it mean?

[A]

Master of British.

[B]

British Empire.

[A]

Empire. How'd that feel. And you got it from the Queen at her birthday party.

[B]

I got it from Prince William.

[A]

Prince William, the bald one? Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Charles wasn't there. And then I went to Prince William, and as I got my man, I was like, hey, can you release Julian Assange?

[A]

You said that.

[B]

I did. So if you hear me talking. That's what I was saying. I was like, can you please release him out of, you know, HMRC Belmarsh, which is the most worst prison ever? And he said, I'm sorry, it's out of my hands. And then I was like, but you're the king.

[A]

Yeah, he's just the prince.

[B]

The prince, yeah, yeah. I was like, surely you can talk to your dad or your grandma.

[A]

No, those guys can't do anything.

[B]

He was like, no, it's out of my hands. I don't have that.

[A]

They just live in a house.

[B]

And then I walked off.

[A]

Wait, so did you get. Do they do it with a sword or. No, that's not.

[B]

No, he just, like, pins it on you, I think.

[A]

What do you get, Like. Do you get, like, a discount at, like, a Tesco's or what? Like.

[B]

Okay, I didn't get anything.

[A]

What are, like the. What are the Betties for a.

[B]

Nothing. But you know what? It's kind of useful right now, today, in this moment, because, you know, you're, like, cancelled for words. But I got that medal for my words.

[A]

One thing I've always fixated on is, like, there's this cultural exchange, like, especially rock and roll. Like. Like Mick Jagger sings in an American accent or Adele sings in an American accent. Like, something about you and the Clash is like, you're using your own voice. Like, was that a deliberate thing or.

[B]

No, I'm just me, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's hard to be something you're not.

[A]

Like Mike Skinner. I always thought it was really cool that he sounds that way.

[B]

So I had. I wanted to be as honest as possible, and also truth is important to me. So, like, you always had to be like that so that it was just airtight. No one can knock you, you know, And I thought, to me, that was important to be truthful.

[A]

Did you go to Sound Clashes and stuff?

[B]

I actually came from a different zone.

[A]

You're listening to hip hop.

[B]

I was listening to hip hop and then I was listening to, you know, dance rave music quite a lot, like, once. Yeah. So I did a bit of that, and that was always part of my thing. But then I discovered the. Well, I came to America for the first time in the late 90s or middle 90s, actually. Yeah, something like that. And then I got really into west coast rap, or any rap from everywhere. And then I was a bit of a hard head about that until I went to St Martin's and then when I started mixing with people and they would take me to, like, London parties, because I didn't really go to those kind of parties, you know, like cool parties, jungle raves, which. Which kind of samples dance hall a lot. And it had. It's much more like street stuff. And then when I started going to fashion parties is when I was getting into, like, indie music, I guess. Oasis came out. When did Oasis put their first record out?

[A]

94.

[B]

So I started St. Martin's around 96. So that's what was popping, you know, Oasis, the Verve. Like, you had all this indie music and Spike Jones started making music videos. And it was all just like the best kind of art, you know. Radiohead was like the biggest band. Yeah. Best band ever. So I. You know, you couldn't avoid it. It was just like, in your face. It was just like the best time in London. It was basically the cool Britannica era. And so you couldn't avoid it. I was at St. Martin's and that's when I got into the Clash.

[A]

So what was the segue to music, was it.

[B]

I didn't want to be a musician at that time. I was just impressed by music videos, you know. So my ambitions after leaving St. Martin's was to be a music video director.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And nobody would give me a job because you really had to, like, network to do that, you know, And. And people were like, what's she gonna know?

[A]

She's not a lesbian.

[B]

She's not a lesbian. And it's so dominated by, like, these, like, dudes, you know? And so my favorite video at the time was. I would say every Radiohead video. Every Radiohead, yeah. That they were the pinnacle. And Bjork had amazing videos. So we were just like, wow. You know, it was like the best time for art.

[A]

Do you remember the first song you made?

[B]

The first one I wrote was mia, which is the hidden.

[A]

And you just dropped your first song that you ever tried.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Fucking hell.

[B]

That was.

[A]

I mean, that's crazy, you know, that's kind of like in stand up. Like, no one's good when they start. Like, apparently Dave Chappelle was, you know, like. But it is a very rare thing to be able to just, like,

[B]

you're probably in sketchbooks.

[A]

You're going to be Michelin Starchef tonight. If I had to guess, I kind of can be. Yeah, she kind of can be.

[B]

I don't know what I've been doing since I've been fired. Like, cooking every day. And it's just like, wow, you know,

[A]

like, who's fired from the Monopoly Man?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. The powers that. Anyway, tell me about the film CB4.

[B]

Wow. You really do you know people that went to St. Martin's with me or something?

[A]

No, I just love. I just. No, I don't.

[B]

Okay. CB4 came out, obviously. I love comedy as well.

[A]

It's a Chris. Chris. It's like a Chris Rock film.

[B]

Yeah. And it's a spoof Chris Rock did. Yeah. Of west coast rap. And it was so hilarious. But obviously it's borderline not good. It's highly controversial. It wouldn't even get shot nowadays, you know, but at that time, it was so extreme and it was so funny and it was dealing with really important subjects. And I took it into college and I was like, I want it. You know, because everybody kept, like, any suggestions for, like, films we need to discuss? And, you know, in film theory or whatever, everyone would be like, Fellini Goddard. And I was like, dryer. Yes. And I presented CB4. And then everyone's like, absolutely. Kick her out now. Kick her out.

[A]

Was Jarvis Cocker at your school?

[B]

So he'd graduated by the time I'd gone there. P.J. harvey went there.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Jarvis. And I heard Sade went there, but she did fashion. And then there was rumors that David Bowie went there, but I'm not sure

[A]

in terms of the way that music is distributed, in terms of, like, guerrilla kind of self produced marketing. Like, you were kind of you and like, maybe like, I don't know, Soulja Boy were like the. Do you consider yourself MySpace generation. I mean, that is really just like, it's a precursor to SoundCloud and like, everything that's come since then, right?

[B]

Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. It just all happened so fast, didn't it, like. Cause really I started off the DIY person and spray painting and pressing vinyls. And actually the first demo, that Mia song and Galang were recorded on a DAT tape. So I had to go and borrow, like, studio time. And they gave me MIA and galang

[A]

on a dat so you could put it on MySpace.

[B]

Yeah. Then I had to buy a DAT machine and, you know, and convert it. And so then, you know, when I did vinyls, that was like, okay, now we're talking, like common people language. Like pressing vinyls so people can play it in the DJ sets. And when I met Diplo, there was vinyls going on. MySpace hadn't happened. You know, that came, like, a couple years after.

[A]

And you guys were dating. You were like, collaborators as well. What's wrong? I can't say that.

[B]

No.

[A]

You had a boyfriend. Sorry, I mean, like, you got. You made paper plays together. You discovered Diploma.

[B]

I discovered him. Really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I turned up at his thing. He didn't turn up at mine.

[A]

Well, it sounds like you went to his show.

[B]

I heard his demo. So he made his first song. It was called News Flash, and it was on a friend's mixtape. And I was like, that sounds like the sound or this person. There's something that I feel like is a thing, that they get the same. Or they've had the same upbringing musically. And I could tell that by one demo. And then I just rang around and found out, like, where he was or who he was. And this is before the Internet. And somebody had. He was signed to a British record label called Ninja Tunes or Big Dada or something, and they booked him for a club night in London. And I got the flyer, and then I went and I took Galang, which was a white label, and I was like, can you play this song? We had some, you know, beats in common, and he knew some odd references that only I knew. And I was like, wow, that's pretty cool. But we didn't really get together. It's only after I went to Philly to make the mixtape and you heard.

[A]

You were telling me the story behind hearing the track for Paper Plays.

[B]

We had a. We had a friend in common who was the editor of Fader magazine at the time called Knox Robinson. And Knox had a record label, and he went to Jamaica and he was doing a remix album of the Serious Times rhythm.

[A]

Okay,

[B]

but this is how everything is connected because of all rhythms. Yeah, he was doing Serious Times rhythm, and I feel like I major in talking about Serious Times. And so he brought the record to my apartment, and me and Wes were living together at the time. And he was like, here's the Gyptian record, right? So Gyptian had a record called. No, it's before that. Serious Times. These are some serious times.

[A]

Girl, you give me the tightest homie ever beat of my life.

[B]

Yeah, that was his big crossover hit. But before that, he did a serious song called Serious Times.

[A]

A Serious Times is. How's it going?

[B]

The best song. I want to listen to the best song. You're gonna love this song. It's one of my favorite songs.

[A]

Girl, you give me the Titus hole. He doesn't say the tightest hole. It's like different lyrics.

[B]

It is the tightest hold.

[A]

I thought it was the Titus.

[B]

No.

[A]

I thought it was a nasty song.

[B]

This is Egyptian.

[A]

He's highly conscious. I apologize, guys. He's a conscious guy.

[B]

He's a very conscious.

[A]

I thought he was talking about.

[B]

And I was obsessed with the song.

[A]

What's it called?

[B]

Gyptian Serious Times. So Wes was remixing that.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And he got the Paper Planes beat on the go. It's like 9:30 in the morning. And he's got the Clash sample going. And he's going, dun, dun, dun. He's trying to fix it to these are some serious times. And I was like, this is my favorite song. Why would you even ruin it?

[A]

You know?

[B]

And then at the same time, I was like, I can write a song on that. So I was like, I have some lyrics. And I kind of got out of bed, got on the mic and. Yeah, we tried Paper Planes.

[A]

Did you get in trouble for the gun? No.

[B]

Oh, yeah, There was a bit. Yeah.

[A]

Who cares?

[B]

Interscope kept taking it out, and then we just kept fighting.

[A]

They put out Kim by Eminem. They put out a song about him putting his wife in a trunk.

[B]

Yeah. But, you know, like, you can't go,

[A]

boom, boom, boom, boom, boom and take your money.

[B]

It's different when it comes from a brown woman. A baddie is very baddie stuff to do.

[A]

I mean, that's. Yeah.

[B]

From a white blonde guy is different. But when it comes from a brown woman. Yeah.

[A]

You can't say boom, boom, boom, boom, boom and take your money with a past. Oh, my God, yes. Was that the first time you got in trouble?

[B]

I hate saying that. Eh?

[A]

Was that the first time you got in trouble?

[B]

No, the first time was when I said, like, plo, I don't surrender on

[A]

my first song, like Andrea.

[B]

So I came out the gate in trouble. Really? What's the lyric in sun showers, which was my first single?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It said, like, Pirlo, I don't surrender.

[A]

Andrea Pirlo, the soccer player for no, like plo. Oh, like the plo?

[B]

Yeah, like Palestinian Liberation or early on, a Palestine tip. It was my first sentence.

[A]

She got canceled for that.

[B]

Yes. In 2004. So they took it off the radio. They cancelled my song. And then. And then people started writing into the American government saying, this person cannot come to America and perform because of that. Yes. So when I came to do my first show in New York and I Did the Knitting Factory. They. They told me at that point that people were writing in saying, you can't have this artist perform in New York.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so that's when America pulled up. My past history, because I started getting immigration problems because of that. So before that, before 2004, I'd been coming and going in America all the time. I never had problems. I could come on an Esther stay for three months. You know, like, I worked with Diplo. I was on tour with Elastica. I'd been here visiting my family, like on the west coast, like, hanging out with my cousins and stuff, and never had problems. But the day I put out Sunshowers, the FBI went and, like, dug out all this stuff and, you know, because they wanted to find something on me. And then they found this, like, record I had from, you know, when I was, like, 18. And then they were like, we're gonna stamp her.

[A]

Cause you said plo?

[B]

Yes. And that's really when my stamp on my passport appeared. And since then, you know, I get called into immigration all the time and interrogated all the time, and it takes me, like, hours to get out of there. And that happened because of the Sun Showers song.

[A]

The stuff you get in trouble for is kind of bullshit.

[B]

Is such bullshit.

[A]

Having a gun.

[B]

But you know what?

[A]

The best song ever.

[B]

Look at how forgiving I am to society. What about the Super Bowl Middle Finger?

[A]

She did this at the Super Bowl. How badass is that with Madonna?

[B]

Yeah. And also, like, my lyric was, I don't give a shit. So it's not even the biggest. You know, it's not the same as, like, a suicide bombing.

[A]

Oprah called you a terrorist.

[B]

Everybody did at the time because tigers were like. They were kind of going off at the time. But the New York Times was calling me that, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like, everyone reads the New York Times. So before social media and before the social media cancellation world, the media had the power, you know, and that's kind of how they did the thing. And you know what? It's really interesting because now I'm swept into this left wing, right wing conversation in the US but when I first arrived and they were writing in saying, this person can't perform, you know, in these venues that, like, was. I don't know, I just generally took it as American. Like, it wasn't left or right, you know, it was just like, I don't know.

[A]

But as this stuff was happening, you were still. Your profile was growing.

[B]

Luckily, every time they ban you on this thing, a new thing would pop up. And you'd just be on that thing, you know, like those kids. So, like, they. When I first put my record out, they were like, we're not gonna stock it in record shops because your music is weird and it's strange. Like, we don't know where a brown woman fits because you don't fit with the white thing and you don't fit with the black thing and we don't know where to put you. And you ain't Dessi either. Like, you're not making Indian music, you know, so we're not gonna put you anywhere and we're just not gonna sell your records. And they would come to Excel and say that, like Tower Records and Virgin Megastore and shit. And Excel will call me in and say they don't know where to put your record. And I'll be like, just put it next to the till. Like, if it doesn't go into a rack under genres, put it next to the till. And they were like, no. And luckily for me, Limewire popped off, you know, and people started downloading it. And partly that's because of Diplo, because he was already on tech. He was already on blogs and having chat rooms and I didn't even have a computer like that. But Americans were like 10 years ahead of us on that kind of front. England hadn't caught up yet. But I was introducing England to the chat room world for the first time

[A]

because it sounded new the first time I heard you.

[B]

Yeah. So it was kind of like popping off because of the Internet. And thank God for the Internet at that time.

[A]

So piracy helped you?

[B]

Piracy helped me because it got me on chat rooms.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then when Arula came out, like six months later, it got downloaded a million times for free.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the record label didn't sell records. And my record label told me that Jack White from White Stripes was using or the vinyls as shooting targets.

[A]

He didn't like it.

[B]

He didn't like it. So I don't know, maybe he liked it, but he was. It's just that they had so many vinyls left over that he, he. They gave it to him and he was using it as a shooting ranch, you know, as a target. And I was like. And then obviously I blew up on the Internet because every time it's like. It's like, I love that my life is like this. That this is why I believe in God so much. Because, you know, every time somebody does that, something else pops off. Like you just. You just can't be cancelled because the entire thing moves and you know, all

[A]

press is good press.

[B]

I don't know. No, I don't think that's what's happening to me. I genuinely am not tied to anything. Like, it's not that nothing is precious, but you're not tied to the world, you know, like I am of the world, but at the same time, I don't know, it's like you. Yeah, it's not like that, you know,

[A]

but obviously you started collaborating with like a million, like, legendary artists. Who was the most inspiring?

[B]

Ah, that's a nice question. The most inspiring. I mean, loads of Timbo. Timbo's kind of going through a controversial thing with the AI thing right now.

[A]

Oh, really? I don't know.

[B]

But of course, like before I worked with him, he was like the legend, you know. And Missy, I mean, like Madonna, obviously. I never thought in my life I would meet Madonna, you know?

[A]

Were there other female rappers that showed love? Like Missy Elliott?

[B]

Yes. And Lauryn Hill. I got to do some dates with her.

[A]

I Can't Stand the Rain was my favorite song in fifth grade.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

She was cool because she was like a. She was a big girl. And then all the guys in the videos would be like, single, six pack, like hunks. Right. It was kind of a reversal of like the hip hop.

[B]

Like the gays.

[A]

Well, like the video mix. Yeah, the female gays. Yeah, exactly. You worked with ye.

[B]

Yes. So when I met him, he was the most open minded out of all the rappers. He kind of was like hungry. I think he was just hungry to know everything and learn everything. And he's like, what's going on? You know?

[A]

Because he also went to art school.

[B]

Did he? I didn't know that.

[A]

College dropout.

[B]

I didn't. I didn't realize that was an art school. Yeah, I know. His mum was a teacher.

[A]

Yeah. Dada. Yeah. Is the Diddy stuff real? Is all that stuff real?

[B]

I have no idea.

[A]

Yeah, Jay Z caught two. He caught Epstein and Diddy, right? Oh, that's a, that's a.

[B]

Every time you mention Agne, I want to talk about brand Omni.

[A]

Oh, you have smoke. Is there a thing?

[B]

What?

[A]

Did I touch on a thing with Jay Z? No, you got smoke with him.

[B]

Don't try to like, do you bang,

[A]

bang, bang any slings? I'm not a host.

[B]

Every time you try to get the thread, I talk about my threads. Finest copper threads.

[A]

Oh, so you hate Jay Z. You're gonna kill him. Cut that.

[B]

Okay, I didn't say that. These words did not come.

[A]

Wait, but is it like, what is it?

[B]

No, I don't have beef with anyone.

[A]

Me neither.

[B]

I forgive everyone and my relationship with God and who I am.

[A]

That's the only person I beef with. How dare you.

[B]

Every time that I have questions. But, you know, I think everything is a necessity.

[A]

What are your favorite artists working right now?

[B]

It's really hard because we're in an AI time. Yeah.

[A]

So with music.

[B]

Yeah. And I don't know the definition of an artist.

[A]

It sucks, though.

[B]

It kind of sucks because, I don't know, you know, is the genius somebody who uses AI or is the genius somebody who absolutely resists it and really brings some conversation about that? Like, I can't tell what I love right now. Like, I. I listen to different sounds. For example, like.

[A]

Like. Sorry, what was that?

[B]

That is so New York.

[A]

What's that? Yeah, fart. Fart is huge in New York.

[B]

I got slapstick.

[A]

What? Okay, What. What sounds Hog. Hog.

[B]

Like, there's a whole movement in India. Right. There's many different things popping off. So they have, like. Since lockdown and all of that. India, if you go to, like, villages, they have these sound systems that really belongs to the people, you know, and it's really hard to find. They're not advertised on the Internet. They're, like, hidden. It's like private, secret raves and things, you know? And that. That.

[A]

What do they play?

[B]

That kind of movement, to me, is more thrilling.

[A]

So what does it sound like?

[B]

It is sound. It's sound. But they use sound waves to compete. So they set up, like, speaker systems and sound clash. It's not really like that, but it's literally about the sound waves. So they put, like, say, a bottle of water in the middle of the two sound systems. And someone has to knock it over with the sound. So it's a sound clash, but it's like noise clash as well. I don't know. So you go there and your particles literally gets rearranged. Like, when you go. You have to, like, have you been. Yeah. And I've never felt anything like it. Like, I had to lie down for two days and assess, like, what had happened to my body and if I was the same person ever again. But people go deaf, like, for, like, three, four days after they go to one of these. And it's just basically horrible. It's. It's actually not a good feeling.

[A]

Sounds terrible. Yeah.

[B]

But there. And there's, like, you know, issues. Like, I spoke to the people in the village and everything, and people say, this is not. You know, there's. This is not real music. This is something else. But this is using sound in a different way. But they use, like, say they take EDM and electronic music from the west or trance music or dance music, and they, like, just do stuff to it so hard. Yeah. It's the most intense thing. And then they try to affect the environment, like blow chairs out of the room and shit, you know, and it's like, that's. That's the dance, that's the parties.

[A]

That sounds terrible, but it sounds. I mean, it's cool.

[B]

Yeah. So, you know, artistically, I mean, it depends what you think of as art, really. You know, like. Yeah, we discussed that yesterday on that Zabob Dylan came up. Because if. If art is only judged through what's poppin on TikTok, and it's just about a dance routine that kids can copy, then, yes, Bob Dylan would not make it, and neither would Kurt Gibbie, and neither would, you know, anybody, even me. You know, you would make it. Even if someone put a gun to my head to do a dance routine, I don't think I could.

[A]

And then you take your money.

[B]

Yeah, I'd take the gun.

[A]

So you mentioned on the phone, you're like, every time I do a podcast, I get canceled. I'm like, I didn't even know that. But it's like in researching you and learning more about you, the things that keep popping up seem so nothing.

[B]

And nobody apologizes for their nothingness.

[A]

Well, it's just like for you having boom, boom, boom in the greatest song ever, or for you using the middle finger at the super bowl, like, these

[B]

are eating French fries, not babies.

[A]

These are, like, such quaint, like, controversies, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I heard an interview with Sharon Stone, right. And like, her last major performance, I'm pretty sure in a major movie was Casino, you know, and I think, like, kind of if I'm piecing things together is like. Is if you're a woman, that's like a little bit too. That can't be controlled. Like, does it serve as a. At a disadvantage at a certain point?

[B]

This is a really great question. You said they'd be good. That is. That is people putting. Trying to cancel you and put you in a box.

[A]

But they're not doing it. Taylor Swift.

[B]

They're not. Because this is what I was saying on the podcast yesterday, even. They did it to me a few times, even, like, supporting Julian Assange, and now he's a free man and people love him now. You know, you're not the problem, but you are the target. Like you said you're the target. And why are you a target? It boils down to spirituality, you know, because you think that. I do think it is a spiritual warfare. I think it is.

[A]

Because you don't think it's just something like guy in a boardroom that's just like, ah, get her, get her.

[B]

You cannot be on that list every year for random things. You just cannot if you're consistently on there. And then I had to go back to be like, was I on these lists from when I got famous or was I on like experiencing stuff like this in my life, throughout my life? And the truth is, yes, you know, like, there was always problems. You're cancelled for being a Tamil, you're cancelled for being this. And you know, my school life was not easy. It's not like I was like this, you know, my mother.

[A]

But why would you be canceled for being from a country, like for your ethnic. Yeah.

[B]

The thing is, I think that some of these things are a necessity when you get canceled. I do, I. So it's not like I have strong feelings towards this, but to be a

[A]

female pop star, right, like there's a degree of, you know, it's a company, right. You know, it's like Taylor Swift LLC or something. Right? Like, yes, you know, like yesterday you are someone that, like, it's kind of a free spirit. And like, do you think that that puts you at a disadvantage beyond your race? That, that you're just a person that's not like a CEO of mia. When I heard that interview with Sharon Snow, going back to that, like, like her assessment was, yeah, that like there had been a decision kind of that like, you know, she can't, she's too. She's like a 155 IQ and they're like, yeah, we can't, like kind of like.

[B]

So what are you saying about Madonna then?

[A]

Does she get in trouble? She did get in trouble. The music video for like a Prayer, where is that one?

[B]

I think that's the only time she's in trouble, isn't it?

[A]

That song. What is that? What do you think that song's about?

[B]

No, but that is the only time she's been in trouble.

[A]

No, I think she made the sex book when she was doing erotica. Uh huh. Like a virgin. People didn't like that. I'm down on my knees, I'm gonna take it.

[B]

Isn't her song about. I know people are saying it's about blowjob. I know people are saying that she's

[A]

giving black Jesus a blowjob. It's heretical.

[B]

She's saying, I learned a lot. Jesus was black, and that's kind of what Kanye said. Yeah, but he got majorly cancelled and she got more famous.

[A]

I mean, like, does that. Does that float around in your mind, or are you just kind of unaffected by it? Because you also seem very well adjusted in speaking.

[B]

Yeah, so they. Yesterday, they kept saying, are you traumatized? Are you traumatized? You don't see all these cancellations? And you're like, no.

[A]

For fucking what, though?

[B]

For what? Yeah, that's their ignorance, not mine, you

[A]

know, but you wonder, like, who's doing it? Who's saying canceling?

[B]

Yeah. So then when I said they, they were like, who's they? And, you know, and I thought that that was, like, a funny thing. But with me, honestly, I cannot define the they. The they in my case is many different types of people. I'm very varied in the palette of they. It's not the, you know, quotation marks. It's not in America, like you said. Even if it's the robots or the AI and the algorithms doing that, they're programming the machines to think like that because they're thinking like that.

[A]

I think it's just guys that are really rich, they could just make decisions in an industry if they want to. Probably.

[B]

No, but it's across the board, not just industries across the board. Division, division, everywhere and hate everywhere. People only communicate now with negative comments. Like you said, real life is not like the Internet.

[A]

No, it's just like, you go to dinner and then you see your dad. You go fly home and see your dad. You go on a vacation with your girl. You're on a beach. It's kind of nice.

[B]

Yeah. Nobody comes up to you, gang. Na na na, na, na.

[A]

You know, I mean, also, those are the things you kind of, at the end of the day, that you kind of matter in life. Right. Like, someone's like. Like you, what, you flicked off the camera at the super bowl next to Madonna. That's so sick.

[B]

Yeah, Even Madonna would like that. Nobody said, oh, the old Madonna.

[A]

Does it affect you? Like, do you want to make tracks still?

[B]

Does it affect my music?

[A]

Does it affect your desire to create art? I mean, it's not even music.

[B]

No, no, because that's my gift. God gave me that. No one has the right to take that away. And no one can. They don't have the power to do that.

[A]

What are you working on right now, one of these Indian sounds?

[B]

No, at the moment, I'm out of work.

[A]

Well, see, there you go. Like, don't you deserve. I mean, you seem.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

An incredibly creative individual. Like.

[B]

Yeah. So when I say that it lasts for about 48 hours, you know, like, at the moment, I have just been making tracks, focusing on my clothing line.

[A]

So tell us about that.

[B]

This is Omni.

[A]

It has something to do with.

[B]

No, no, it's got nothing to do. But this is a clothing line basically that came out two years ago. And it's made of metal, you know,

[A]

so this metal pairs.

[B]

Yeah, this is copper and this is copper. And it just like. Is it WI fi? Yeah, I mean, this is mesh.

[A]

That's mesh. But what about the pairs? Yeah, I would get kind of swampy.

[B]

Well, this is mixed fabric. So it's patched with different ones and some are breathable. And then it's got a zip. You can make it as breathed.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

But there's different things.

[A]

And what is the purpose of the metal clothing?

[B]

Okay. So, you know, you live in New York City. It's actually perfect for New York City. So you have all these skyscrapers, and if you look through the window, like every single window on every single skyscraper has got an Internet router, you know?

[A]

Yeah, Everywhere.

[B]

Everywhere does. Every rooftop has got 5G towers, which is now 6G towers. And eventually.

[A]

Six. They came out with six.

[B]

Yes, and eventually you go to 10 because China's already on 10. So if America are killing us, they're just killing us, dude.

[A]

They're like flying cars and stuff.

[B]

Yeah, I wish I would. I wish I could talk about that because I had to go there to make the stuff.

[A]

You went there to get metal clothes.

[B]

Yeah, because only they produce the fabric. Yeah, but they're already on 10G. But they also.

[A]

So you're saying that the radiation is bad for people's bodies and stuff?

[B]

Yeah. So, you know, like, in the last 20 years, the sperm count in men has gone down 60%.

[A]

I didn't know that.

[B]

You didn't know that?

[A]

No way.

[B]

Oh, yeah. So it's really like protecting your.

[A]

But is that because of cell phones?

[B]

Yes, because people put cell phones in their pocket.

[A]

That sounds like some RF. RF Jr type of.

[B]

Well, you know, he's a smart man, isn't he? Like, he's probably.

[A]

He seems kind of a. Like a wacko dude to me. Why? Also, you see that video of him trying to do push ups? He could do like two. Even though he's got big muscles, he's definitely on roids.

[B]

He's in his 70s.

[A]

So what? When I'm in my 70s, I'll do three push ups for sure. Just to beat him.

[B]

No, I can't judge it on that. The physical body is like, like that. You know, he, I don't know, I don't know the ins and outs of that. But he's not the only one who knows about this stuff.

[A]

There's actually five GS and stuff. Wait, so when did you discover that like the negative health impacts of that. Because there are people that go to that town in West Virginia that has like no service. Right.

[B]

I tell you what, it's like.

[A]

I've heard of like I am a

[B]

Tamil and these people are very old in nature and I in my lifetime.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not passed down information and things I've read but my entire life is, you know, it's really. I've come from living in a village with nothing. No television and no cell phone. No phone even and no car. Like I come from, you know, ad Sri Lanka had nothing and it was a war zone.

[A]

And you're part of an oppressed minority too.

[B]

No, but it's also, it's not outside of the war. I remember a time with my own brain where you did not have anything electronic. You know, I lived the most organic life in the world. Like you pick your fruit off the tree and you get your vegetable in the garden and you cook it and you eat it and you live simpler life and. Yeah, and your entertainment was organic. Like your travel was organic. You used a bicycle you went to, you know, you wrote on slates.

[A]

It's interesting because your music is very digital.

[B]

I know. So in my lifetime I did 10 years of that. So I'm not talking about my grandparents life, I'm talking about my own life. Sure, I remember that. I remember what it feels like to eat off a banana leaf and not off a plate. You know, I remember what it feels like to wear cotton and, and see the people that weave that cotton. And then obviously I'm part of the digital revolution of everything that happened and all of these things. And wrote a song called Connected to the Google, connected to the government, named my child I kid like an iPhone the same year it came out.

[A]

That's the first name?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Did they go by I kid?

[B]

Mm.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. So like I embrace technology too. Like I'm not a nonce.

[A]

No, Nonce is a pedophile. Pretty sure. What are you?

[B]

Nonce as in dummy. You know, like I'm aware of this.

[A]

You know what I'm thinking right now?

[B]

I've lived in New York, I know what it feels like.

[A]

You know what I'm thinking right now I don't know anything about radiation or anything like that. Could be real, could be not. But I know that it's labeled like conspiracy. Right. But like, on the other hand, you're an artist, right? You should be wearing metal clothes. Right. We used to permit.

[B]

Do you know why? Do you know? I tell you why wear metal clothes?

[A]

Well, no, we used to permit for our artists to be. To be like different. I watched an interview with Marlon Brando,

[B]

creators of like new thought and new philosophies and new ideas. Like you say, ah, David Bowie, he premeditated content creators. And when I was, when I first came out as an artist, I was a content creator, which is why I shot the documentary. A lot of that footage is self shot with my own camera. It's not, you know, I'm talking about the Maya Matangi documentary where you didn't have an artist that had footage like that. Cause I was a selfie. Content creating film. A person before the Arab digital social media. Like I shot it on handcams.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And was addressing the camera all the time.

[A]

I used to do Jackass videos on those.

[B]

Yeah. This is like 15 years before that or whatever. So when I had that footage and you were making that footage on MySpace, that then became a thing. Content creating and self documenting and taking selfies. And you know, the COVID of Calla is just a selfie photo on photo booth.

[A]

So you invented it and everyone's copying.

[B]

It's not the point. What I'm saying is. No, but what I'm saying is just like David Bowie 20 years before said there's going to be content creators. And yes. You just got. You're doing the thing he said and we're like, wow, he foresaw the thing. Some artists have the ability to be the zeitgeist.

[A]

I like that you're wearing metal clothes. Cause you're dope. You're interested in. No, what I'm saying is, why would

[B]

you not wear clothes made out of silver and gold and copper and these things? It's luxury.

[A]

Because I'm careful. You know, I like a breathable material. I like a cotton.

[B]

Yes. But you know, copper. In the ancient times, the yogis used copper. It's an antibacterial method. So they stored water in copper pots. You know, they ate from copper plates and they did wear copper bracelets and

[A]

things, but they didn't have toilet paper. Also.

[B]

It doesn't matter. The point is the beneficial. Huh?

[A]

I'm not trolling, actually.

[B]

No, it's not trolling. But it is beneficial to the human body. Natural material. We are made of dust. If you believe in, you know, that we are made of material or come from the stars or whatever people believe. Like, made from the dust in the material world.

[A]

Yeah. Well, we're made in God's image.

[B]

Yes. And when we die, our body goes back to the ground, back to the minerals.

[A]

So sad.

[B]

And our soul and spirit goes to God, you know, but our vessel is made of the material from Earth, so obviously, anything made from the material of Earth is good for you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, why wouldn't it be?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It sounds like you're from California to me, but. No, I mean it. But, like. But you could be right. But, like, I don't want to. Like, I think you're a genius, and I think it's like. I think it's dope that you're wearing metal clothes, honestly. And I think that it's like, I think that everyone wants to hate on everything. And, like, that, you know, I can see how that, like, people's reaction would be like, oh, that's conspiracies, whatever. But, like, whatever, dude. Like, you know, Robert De Niro could wear metal clothes.

[B]

I would have said, 25 years ago, you said, someone's gonna make a thing that goes into your brain called Neuralink. I would have been like, conspiracy theory.

[A]

You know that guy?

[B]

I don't, but why Boys with Musk? No, I'm not, actually. That's something the Internet made up. That's conspiracy theory.

[A]

Going back to what I was saying about you just being an enigmatic individual, I can see how people, like, want to weaponize that. And it's just, to me, after talking to you about art and about how you feel about art, it pisses me off, because truly, what matters is, is, like, that you're like creativity, you know? What matters is that you make art and it affects people, and you put it out, and I think you do, and I think you are a genius. Well, the thing is, I'm dumb as fuck. I don't know if you knew this.

[B]

No, no, no. I don't say I'm a genius either,

[A]

because you can't say it about yourself. Only Kanye does.

[B]

Only Kanye does. And Kanye did say that I was one once. Yeah. Then he said nine. He changed his mind.

[A]

Did he change his number?

[B]

Huh?

[A]

Did he change his number? You down to get a little bit of 5G so I could talk to Kanja?

[B]

I use. I use technology. That's why I'm wearing this like, this is Kanye. Okay?

[A]

So get her phone, dude. Let's call Kanye right now. I just want to say, what up, Kanye? I can say I can fix all

[B]

talking to me right now.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Because.

[A]

Because you. Why?

[B]

Because. I don't know. Actually, he was like, no.

[A]

You've been making art in the public eye for, like, 20 years, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Does it feel like things have changed significantly? Like, does it feel like the way you're treated as an artist and, like, the way people interact with your art is different? Is it. Does it make it more difficult? Or is it.

[B]

This is what Americans want to know. Like, have they done a successful job at deleting my, you know, history and my abilities or my gift or my talents?

[A]

And I don't know anyone doing that.

[B]

They asked me this question a lot. They're like, has it, you know, deleting

[A]

you like you're R. Kelly?

[B]

And I don't know if it's like,

[A]

you know, you're not R. Kelly.

[B]

No, of course not. And honestly, why would it. Why would it matter? Like, what you ate? A French fry. I eat French fries still. I love potato. Like, like I said, I want my husband to be like, a potato that is versatile. You can fry it, mash it, Mr. Potato Head, baby, everything. And I'm like. I'm like, I'm never gonna give up eating potatoes because the New York Times didn't like it. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. It's just.

[B]

Is it gonna change your life? Does it change your life? And it's like, no. You have to look at the machine and be like, that's the machine. But the machine suffers, too. Like, they do that to you, but they suffer too, you know? And you have to look at that and be like, in 10 years time, they will be living in the environment that they create.

[A]

And every time you cancel, my girlfriend's still gonna be mad about that. We need a new bed frame and shit. The machines are gonna ever stop that from happening. And we got a bed frame a year and a half ago, she said. And she says, it's too squeaky. No, but that's insane.

[B]

Yeah, but you have to think that

[A]

you have a nice house.

[B]

Do I have a nice house?

[A]

Yeah, it's probably amazing.

[B]

I live in a rented house in America.

[A]

I didn't ask if you owned it. There's probably just awesome stuff is inside of it.

[B]

No, not at all. I live in an empty house.

[A]

Oh, you're like Steve Jobs style.

[B]

Oh, what's his style?

[A]

I think, like, one chair in the middle Of a white warehouse.

[B]

Yeah, I did that for a bit.

[A]

That Kanye. Kanye was into that too. Let's just call him squash the beef, and I'll. I'll make it right with. For him. I love him so much.

[B]

That's good. He needs love.

[A]

I know, and I. He needs the love for me, but

[B]

so does a lot of people. A lot of people need love.

[A]

Yeah. Do you feel like you need love?

[B]

I thank God. Found unlimited amount in God.

[A]

Oh, but that's not a guy you could chill with. Watch a movie.

[B]

Well, it's a different.

[A]

Do you feel like if you're watching a movie, God's watching it with you

[B]

actually funny enough. Yes.

[A]

But he's not making jokes about the movie. No. Chilling with your friends and making jokes about a bad movie. God can't do that.

[B]

No. That's a different kind of love, though. Friendship love. There's like seven types of. Of love, but the infinite, abundant, you know, forgiving love is from God, you know, and you can say it's in yourself and you find it, but that's loving yourself and allowing God to, you know, exist in that space or whatever. And, you know, and it. And it creates the universe to interact with you in a certain way that you. Love is everywhere.

[A]

Yeah, but we should just watch a bad movie with Maya.

[B]

Like, what?

[A]

Make jokes about it? Wait. In D City Heat. What do you want? What should we watch? The room. Have you seen the room before?

[B]

Ah, I wanted to see that.

[A]

Yo, we gotta show her the room. I haven't seen it in so long. Manager, can we watch the room, please? What? So directed by Tommy Wiso, written by Tommy Russo. Sorry, Tommy Russo. Okay, here.

[B]

This reminds me of, like, the bad porn movies my friend used to make.

[A]

It's the acting level of porn.

[B]

I cannot take this. It's like, why are you doing this?

[A]

This is like Daniel Johnston. This is outsider art.

[B]

No, this is somebody who didn't make it to their therapy session. So basically, I'm on the Adam Friedman TV show, and he's put on a whole bunch.

[A]

You just need. I'm not. It's not poor, honestly. This is on YouTube. You see your nipples? It's pretty cool.