#774: Seel CRO Laura Huddle on seeing customer returns as an opportunity

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström® –

Episode 774: Seel CRO Laura Huddle on Seeing Customer Returns as an Opportunity
Date: November 25, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Greg Kihlström is joined by Laura Huddle, Chief Revenue Officer at Seel, to tackle the perception of customer returns in the retail space. What has long been viewed as a costly operational headache is reframed as a strategic opportunity for revenue and loyalty growth, thanks to AI-powered post-purchase platforms like Seel. They dig into the data, business realities, pressures from consumers and investors, and how best-in-class brands are turning returns into a competitive moat.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Laura Huddle’s Background & Seel’s Mission

• Speaker: Laura Huddle [03:32]
  • Career focused on consumer-driven tech at companies like Eventbrite and Deliveroo.
  • “The red thread across my career: I’ve always focused on removing friction for consumers, no matter the industry.”
• Seel’s Focus
  • AI-powered post-purchase platform handling the financial and operational burden of e-commerce returns.
  • Seel turns returns from “a cost center into a loyalty and retention driver” for mid-market and enterprise brands.
  • Trusted by brands like Poshmark, Backcountry, Rue La La, and Kyte Baby.
  • Quote: “Returns cost retailers 20 to 25% of revenue. It’s a trillion-dollar industry globally.” [04:33]

---

2. The Rising Impact of Returns in E-commerce

• Surge in Returns
  • Laura notes Seel’s data: “We’ve seen a surge—over 30% return growth per merchant, year over year.” [06:03]
  • Drivers include economic anxiety (recession fears, job uncertainty), buyer’s remorse, and normalized ‘try before you buy’ culture.
  • Stat: “74% of shoppers would not make the purchase if it wasn’t returnable.”

---

3. The Shifting Psychology of Returns

• It’s less about product defects, more about “uncertainty or expectation mismatch and second-guessing.” [07:21]
• Buyers want “predictability—fast resolution, clarity on timing, no hidden risks.”
• “Trust and predictability, that’s what wins loyalty.”

---

4. Transforming Returns into a Growth Engine

• The P&L Reality
  • “Average brand loses 17% of revenue to refunds and another 8% on non-shipping opex to operate their post-purchase services. That’s a whopping 25% of top-line revenue…” [08:40]
  • Top 100 public e-commerce brands: only a 12% operating margin.
• Seel’s Solution
  • Takes on risk, logistics, and customer support.
  • Three direct outcomes:
    1. Conversion Lift: More purchases when risk is removed (especially for final sale items)
       • “We provide returns for final sale items. Merchants get to offload inventory… Consumers know they can return.”
    2. Higher AOV (Average Order Value): “We lift purchase confidence, especially for mid-priced items.”
    3. Lower Opex: “We shift the customer support burden from retailer to Seel.”
    • Example: Rue La La/Gilt, Kylie Jenner’s Kyte Baby leveraging worry-free returns.
    • “Returns can become a data engine, a trust builder, and a conversion lever—not just a cost.” [10:49]

---

5. The Role of AI and Data in Post-Purchase Innovation

• AI Enables Predictable Returns [11:19]
  • “AI is what makes returns predictable instead of chaotic, turning guesswork into data-driven decisions.”
  • Enables instant refunds and decisions, aggregates cross-merchant data to improve infrastructure and customer experience.

---

6. Making the CFO Business Case

• Metrics that Matter: [12:39]
  • No onboarding or platform fees, quick integration.
  • Demonstrable impact:
    • Increased AOV/conversions
    • Higher repeat rates
    • Lower operational cost per return
    • Low merchant churn due to consistent financial lift
  • "We remove a major cost center while lifting top-line revenue, which is why the ROI story lands with CFOs.”

---

7. Navigating External Pressures: Sustainability, Convenience, and Regulation

• Circularity & Sustainability [14:09]
  • “Returned items are resold and reused rather than being wasted or going to landfill.”
  • Seel processes and resells merchandise on marketplaces—extending product life, reducing waste.
  • “Transparency is also key. Clear options really build trust with consumers.”
  • “Circularity plus clarity equals sustainable returns that meet consumer expectations without hurting the bottom line.”

---

8. Returns as a Long-term Competitive Moat

• The "Moat": [15:59]
  • "Brands that deliver a frictionless, trusted post-purchase experience will earn loyalty that money cannot buy.”
  • Data insights from returns compound into better forecasting, merchandising, and CX over time.
  • “When you solve for the consumer consistently and confidently, that is the moat.”

---

9. Looking Ahead: The Future of Returns

• Predicts returns will be vital to the circular economy and risk-free shopping will become the expectation even beyond Amazon’s ecosystem. [16:57]
  • “The winners here will be brands that turn post-purchase from a cost center into that value loop.”

10. Staying Agile as a Leader

• Laura’s Approach: [17:49]
  • Constant customer observation—“I study the customer experience everywhere, in stores, airports, retail environments.”
  • Finds small details that create “big, delightful moments.”
  • Attentive to generational shifts—“Gen Z is spending less but expecting more… one negative experience means that Gen Z is likely not coming back.”
  • Quote: “For me, I look to future generations—Gen Z and Gen Alpha. I think they’re really redefining what good looks like and I like to watch those shifts closely to stay on my toes.”

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Returns cost retailers 20 to 25% of revenue. It’s a trillion-dollar industry globally.” – Laura Huddle [04:33]
• “74% of shoppers would not make the purchase if it wasn’t returnable.” – Laura Huddle [06:36]
• “Trust and predictability, that’s what wins loyalty.” – Laura Huddle [07:21]
• “Returns can become a data engine, a trust builder, and ultimately a conversion lever—not just a cost.” – Laura Huddle [10:41]
• “AI is what makes returns predictable instead of chaotic, turning guesswork into data-driven decisions.” – Laura Huddle [11:19]
• “Circularity plus clarity equals sustainable returns that meet consumer expectations without hurting the bottom line.” – Laura Huddle [14:22]
• “When you solve for the consumer consistently and confidently, that is the moat.” – Laura Huddle [16:27]
• “Gen Z is spending less but expecting more this holiday season. So one negative experience means that Gen Z is likely not coming back.” – Laura Huddle [18:34]

---

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:32 | Laura Huddle’s background and Seel’s mission | | 04:33 | The scope and cost of returns in e-commerce | | 06:03–06:59| Data-driven insights: return surge, shopper behavior shifts | | 08:40 | The P&L impact of returns and Seel’s economic solution | | 10:41 | Returns as data engine and conversion lever | | 11:19 | How AI transforms the returns process | | 12:39 | Building the business case for CFOs | | 14:09 | Sustainability/circularity in managing returns | | 15:59 | Returns as a competitive moat and the power of data | | 16:57 | The future: returns and circular economy | | 17:49 | Agility in leadership: customer obsession and generational insights |

---

Summary Flow

Laura Huddle and Greg Kihlström offer a state-of-the-industry conversation on the cost, complexity, and untapped potential of e-commerce returns. Laura explains how AI and operational innovation can turn post-purchase pain points into engines for revenue, loyalty, and sustainability. The discussion grounds itself in data and business realities—communicating directly to retail leaders, marketers, and finance executives. Laura’s repeated emphasis on customer trust and generational change closes the loop, framing agility as not just a technical or operational mandate but a leadership mindset as well.

---

For more episodes and insights, visit theagilebrand.com or gregkihlstrom.com.

Transcript

[Hayden]

Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.

[Stephen]

And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball. But you can call me the Smash Daddy.

[Hayden]

And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.

[Stephen]

That's right. Hey hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.

[Hayden]

And along the way we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. So spoiler alert, he'll be wrong.

[Stephen]

Newsflash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday and you can find Fantasy fanfellas wherever you get your podcasts.

[DirecTV Ad Voice]

Tired of overpaying with DirecTV? Dish offers a reliable low price every month without surprises. Get the TV you love and start watching live sports news and the latest movies, plus your favorite streaming apps all in one place. Switch to Dish today and lock in the lowest price in satellite TV starting at 89.99 a with our two year price guarantee. Call 888 add dish or visit dish.com today.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Welcome to Season seven of the Agile Brand where we discuss the trends and topics marketing leaders need to know. Stay curious, stay agile and join the top enterprise brands and Martech platforms as we explore marketing, technology, AI, e commerce and whatever's next for the Omnichannel customer experience. Together we'll discover what it takes to create an agile brand built for today and tomorrow and built for customers, employees and continued business growth. I'm your host Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, AI and marketing operations today. To make sure you always get the latest episodes, please hit subscribe on the app you listen to podcasts on and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. Now onto the show. This show is sponsored by Seal, the AI powered post purchase platform that helps retailers turn returns into revenue while giving shoppers a more seamless trusted experience. For more information, go to www.seals E-E-L.com what if the most dreaded part of your customer's journey, the return, was actually your biggest untapped opportunity for growth. Agility requires brands to reexamine every part of their customer journey, especially the challenging post purchase phase, and find hidden opportunities to adapt and strengthen customer relationships. It demands we turn operational liabilities into strategic assets. Today we're going to talk about Something that many retailers see as a pure cost center customer returns. Instead, we'll explore how a smart data driven post purchase strategy can actually become a powerful engine for customer retention and lifetime value. We'll look at the data trends shaping retail, how to navigate the complex pressure on merchants today, and why this often overlooked part of the business might be the key to unlocking future growth. To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome Laura Huddle, Chief Revenue Officer at Seal. Laura, welcome to the show.

[Laura Huddle]

Thanks Greg. Thank you so much for having me.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

Yeah, looking forward to talking about this. Definitely a good time to be talking about it as well here in the peak season here. Before we dive in though, why don't you give a little background on yourself

[Greg Kilstrom]

and your role at Seal?

[Laura Huddle]

Sure, sure. I spent my entire career in tech building and scaling consumer driven products across Eventbrite, Deliveroo and Smart Car. The red thread. Across my career I've always focused on removing friction for consumers, no matter the industry. So at Eventbrite and Deliveroo I work deeply on marketplace dynamics, consumer behavior and really what drives trust and retention. I joined Seal to tackle a trillion dollar return problem that affects both shoppers and retailers because most retailers simply can't compete with Amazon's predictability. So my role at Seal is to help retailers bring a more Amazon prime like experience to a broader e commerce ecosystem.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

Nice.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Nice.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

And yeah, for those, for those listeners that aren't as familiar with Seal, maybe can you talk a little bit more, you know, what's the specific problem in the retail ecosystem that you're focused on solving and who's the ideal customer?

[Laura Huddle]

Sure, sure. Seal is an AI powered post purchase platform that takes on the financial and operational burden of refunds and returns. Seal solves a massive problem as returns cost retailers 20 to 25% of revenue and it represents over a trillion dollar industry globally. For the consumer, Seal removes the uncertainty and makes returns simple, predictable and fast. And for the merchant, Seal reduces risks, cuts return related costs and turns the post purchase from a cost center into a loyalty and retention driver. We have thousands of customers like Poshmark, Backcountry, Rue La La, Kylie Jenner, Kyte Baby. For us, our ideal customers are mid market and enterprise e commerce brands and marketplaces that need flexibility without margin loss.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Nice, nice.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

Well yeah, let's dive in here and yeah, I mean anytime there's a trillion dollar problem it's certainly worth discussing, right? So let's dive in here and you know your, your team obviously in the, in the role that you play in the in the industry, you're continually analyzing retail data and looking back at the last year and ahead to, you know, the holiday 2025 holiday insights so far. What's the one trend or shift in consumer behavior that surprised you the most and, or that maybe brands are most underestimating?

[Laura Huddle]

Yeah, that's a great question, Greg. The trend that I'm noticing is really the scale of return growth seals return on refund per merchant. We've seen a surge over by over 30% for the same cohort year over year. And I think that that spike reflects something deeper. Higher consumer anxiety, like recession fears, job uncertainty, tighter budgets, more buyer's remorse. Consumers are double thinking non essential purchases and even like a try before you buy that's now normalized which drives higher return volume even when products aren't defective. We did a consumer survey recently and it showed that 74% of shoppers would not make the purchase if it wasn't returnable. So for me, my key takeaway here is that post purchase experience is now a core part of the buying decision and not an afterthought.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

Yeah, yeah.

So you know, you mentioned some of the broader economic trends as well as some of the behavioral trends. You know, how are they impacting return rates and maybe the nature of post purchase interactions. And is there a why behind return changing as much as the what people are buying?

[Laura Huddle]

Yeah, inflation, tighter budgets and the buy now, pay later culture. It means that shoppers are more price sensitive and even more impulsive which is a combination that increases regret driven returns. I think that the why behind returns is shifting so it's less about defective items and more about uncertainty or expectation mismatch and second guessing. Shoppers want predictability like fast resolution, clarity on timing, no hidden risks. And this is why the return experience matters in all economic climates, even in a boom. Trust and predictability, that's what wins loyalty.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

Yeah, yeah.

And so I want to get back to something that you mentioned earlier, which is this idea of turning returns into, you know, from a cost side center to a growth engine and you know, just it, it sounds great but you know, it also sounds like is this, you know, how, how can this happen? You know, how can this actually be made practical? You know, what's, what's the first tangible operational step that a merchant can take to begin this shift of, you know, from pure liability to perhaps a strategic

[Greg Kilstrom]

touch point for retention?

[Laura Huddle]

Yes. Here's the P and L reality. The Average brand loses 17% of revenue to refunds and they spend another 8% on non shipping opex. To operate their post purchase services. So that's a whopping 25% of top line revenue, which is incredibly painful considering the top 100 public e commerce brands. They only operate at a 12% operating margin. So it's a really important problem to tackle. Seal changes the economics by taking on the financial risk, the customer support burden, the logistics and refund window. And that shift unlocks three practical wins. The first one is conversion lift so shoppers buy more when risk is removed. For example, let's take on final sale items. So we've all experienced that anxiety seeing a final sale item that we want, but I know I feel uncertain about buying because it's not returnable. So we provide returns for final sale items. Merchants get to offload inventory that they don't need, that they need to remove. But the consumer has the comfort of knowing that they can return that item and the result is a final sale plus a return option that drives significantly higher conversion with no meaningful increase in return rates. The second area is higher aov, we lift purchase confidence and especially for mid priced items. And the third is lower operating expenses. We're able to shift the customer support burden from the retailer to seal and to share a little bit about that differentiation in action. Just a couple customer examples. So with our partnership with Rue La La and Gilt Group, we started with things like return for product reason. And now we'll be expanding into fit reasons so that shoppers can return for any reason. Or with Kai by Kylie Jenner, they use our worry free purchase product to reinforce protection and trust. So returns can become a data engine, a trust builder and ultimately a conversion lever, not just a cost.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

Yeah, yeah.

And I mean it sounds like all of those things, I mean whether it's average order value, just building kind of

[Greg Kilstrom]

building trust so that someone makes a

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

purchase in the first place. I mean those are great to begin with. What's the role of technology in this transformation? Maybe specifically AI. And can you give an example of how data may be used in real time to create that revenue generating outcome from a potential potential return?

[Laura Huddle]

Yeah, absolutely. AI is what makes returns predictable instead of chaotic, turning guesswork into data driven decisions. So for example, AI powers the customer experience. Instant decisions and instant refunds build trust and reduce friction. AI can turn returns from an unpredictable cost to a controlled revenue positive part of the business. At Seal, our AI enabled service aggregates trust, data and purchasing power across a large order base, allowing us to build infrastructure and technology that would be just too difficult or expensive for anyone whose entire business isn't Running post purchase programs, merchants just don't have access to that kind of volume of data.

[Greg Kilstrom]

So I want to talk about some

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

of the internal as well as the external pressures that the companies face. So as a CRO, you're keenly aware of investor expectations when capital's tight and margins are under pressure, how do you make the business case for investing in the post purchase experience? What are some of the key metrics that convince a CFO this isn't just

[Greg Kilstrom]

a nice to have?

[Laura Huddle]

Yes, I talk to CFOs all the time. You know, as we've been discussing, retailers are cash constrained and every operational decision has to show real financial impact. So Seal's free to implement. There's no onboarding fees, no platform fees, and integration can take as little as a couple weeks. The business case becomes clearer when you look at the P and L. Seal takes on that entire post purchase burden, the customer support, logistics and refunds. And the result is a measurable improvement across metrics that CFOs really care about. So higher AOV and conversion increase repeat purchase rates, lower operational costs from return related support tickets and that results in stronger profit margins. As a result, we see exceptionally low merchant churn because the financial lift is meaningful and consistent. Yeah, we remove a major cost center while lifting top line revenue, which is why the ROI story lands with CFOs.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

Yeah, yeah.

And so moving from those internal pressures, you know, the, the CFO pressures to the, the external ones, you know, as, as we all know, you know, there's shifting consumer expectations around everything from sustainability, convenience, regulatory landscapes, you know, continually shifting and being rather complex.

[Greg Kilstrom]

How are the most agile brands balancing

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

these often competing demands within the returns process?

[Laura Huddle]

Yes, this is something I'm really passionate about. I think the biggest opportunity is in circularity. We need to ensure that returned items are resold and reused rather than being wasted and going to landfill. So what we do is when merchandise is returned, Seal takes it in, processes it and resells it through marketplaces and, and listing sites. That extends the product life and reduces waste. I think this creates a win win. Consumers get a seamless, low friction return process. Merchants avoid waste, recover value and protect margins. And the industry can move towards more sustainable practices without sacrificing convenience. Transparency is also key. Clear options really build trust with consumers. Like longer keep windows, greener return routes, flexible policies. Regulation is increasingly pushing brands towards accountability. But the most agile brands will see this as an opportunity and not a burden. It's really an opportunity for differentiation here. Circularity plus clarity that equals sustainable Returns that meet consumer expectations without hurting the bottom line.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

Yeah.

And that point about the differentiation, I mean certainly there's returns and post purchase logistics. They may not be the most glamorous part of branding and marketing and yet there's a trillion dollar challenge here to overcome. So certainly a lot at stake. What do you see as the biggest moat or long term competitive advantage for brands that get returns in this post purchase logistics Right. Over the next three to five years?

[Laura Huddle]

The moat is the consumer brands that, that, that deliver a frictionless trusted post purchase experience. They'll learn loyalty that money cannot buy. As I mentioned, return volume is rising and brands that make returns effortless will win repeat business when shoppers feel the most anxiety and uncertainty. And there's a compounding data advantage here. So every return generates insights into future forecasting, merchandising and the customer experience. And that advantage compounds over time. So when you solve for the consumer consistently and confidently, that is the moat.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

Yeah, yeah.

Love it. Well Laura, as we wrap up here, a couple last questions for you. If we were having this interview one year from now, what is one thing that we would definitely be talking about?

[Laura Huddle]

Great question. Returns are becoming a core part of the circular economy. More, more brands, including secondhand platforms that typically have a no return policy. They'll introduce flexible return options to drive demand, loyalty and sustainability. Consumers will expect risk free shopping everywhere, not just on Amazon. Removing the risk from buying will reshape how merchants think about conversion, AOV and customer lifetime value. I think the winners here will be brands that turn post purchase from a cost center into that value loop.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

Yeah, love it.

Well, last question for you before we wrap up here.

[Greg Kilstrom]

What do you do to stay agile

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?

[Laura Huddle]

Yeah. Once again, thank you so much Greg for having me on the show today.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, of course.

[Laura Huddle]

For me, I'm a customer geek. I have spent my entire career building and obsessing over the customer. I study the customer experience everywhere, in stores, airports, in retail environments. And I really look for the small details that will bring big, delightful moments. I stay close to customers. I travel often to meet merchants in person. And I'm constantly observing just how people shop, how they return, how they make decisions across generations and across regions. I think that generate generational insight is a real superpower. So a recent report from PwC said Gen Z is spending less but expecting more this holiday season. So one negative experience means that Gen Z is likely not coming back. So for me, I look to future generations, Gen Z and Gen Alpha. I think they're really redefining what good looks like and I like to watch those shifts closely to stay on my toes.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

Yeah, love it.

Well again, I'd like to thank Laura

[Greg Kilstrom]

Huddle, Chief Revenue Officer at seal, for joining the show.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Greg's co-host)]

You can learn more about Laura and

[Greg Kilstrom]

Seal by following the links in the show notes this show is sponsored by Seal, the AI powered post purchase platform that helps retailers turn returns into revenue while giving shoppers a more seamless, trusted experience. For more information, go to www.sealseals E-E-L.com thanks again for listening to the Agile Brand. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show as well. You can access more episodes of the [e-mail] that's theagile brand.com and contact me. If you're interested in consulting or advisory services or are looking for a speaker for your next event, go to www.gregkillstrom.com that's G R E G K I H L S t r o m.com the Agile brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively fueled production co op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and subscribe. Stay Agile,

[Strayer University Ad Voice]

The agile brand.

[Liberty Mutual Ad Voice]

And Doug there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Laura Huddle]

Hey everyone, check out.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Check out this guy and his bird.

[Laura Huddle]

What is this, your first date?

[Liberty Mutual Ad Voice]

Oh no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Together we're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Laura Huddle]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Ad Voice]

Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

[Stephen]

Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty.

[Strayer University Ad Voice]

At Strayer University we help students like you go from Is it possible to anything is possible by offering access to up to 10 no cost gen Ed courses so you can reach your goals affordably and fast. Visit Strayer. Edu to learn more. No cost gen EDS provided by Strayer University Affiliate Sophia. Eligibility rules apply. Connect with us for details. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chef and has many campuses including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.