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The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX
#609: AI-powered DXPs and brand-aware personalized CX with Kathie Johnson, CMO at Sitecore
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Strayer University Announcer
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Carvana Customer
Hey sweetie, your mother showed me this Carvana thing for selling the car. I'm gonna give it a try. Wish me luck. Me again. I put in the license plate. It gave me an offer. Unbelievable. Okay, I accepted the offer. They're picking it up Tuesday from the driveway. I haven't even left my chair. It's done. The car is gone. I'm holding a check Anyway. Carvana, give it a whirl. Love ya.
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Kathy Johnson
So good you'll want to leave a voicemail about it. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply the Agile Brand.
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Greg Kilstrom
Welcome to Season six of the Agile Brand where we discuss marketing, technology and customer experience, trends, insights and ideas with enterprise and technology platform leaders. We focus on the people, processes, data and platforms that make brands successful, scalable, customer focused and sustainable. This is what makes an Agile brand. I'm your host Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, marketing operations and CX, best selling author and speaker. The Agile Brand Podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, an industry leader in full stack technology services, talent services and real world application. For more information go to teksystems.com now let's get on to the show.
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How much time does your marketing team spend on repetitive tasks that could be automated? Imagine if AI could free up that time by creating brand aware content, letting your team focus on what matters most, creating impactful customer experiences. Today we're exploring the future of digital experience, platforms and AI with Kathy Johnson, Chief Marketing Officer at sitecore. We're going to look at what an AI powered DXP is and how it
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helps marketers achieve their goals and overcome
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some of their biggest challenges. Kathy, welcome to the show.
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Kathy Johnson
Greg, it's so great to be here. Thanks for having me.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, really looking forward to this conversation and to dive in here. But before we do, why don't we start with you giving a little background on yourself and your role at sitecore.
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Kathy Johnson
Sure. So actually earlier this week I just passed my one year mark at sitecore where I'm the Chief Marketing Officer. So Been here a year. Can't believe.
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Greg Kilstrom
Nice.
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Congrats.
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Kathy Johnson
Quickly it's gone. Thank you. Prior to sitecore as the CMO of talkdesk in the contact center space and prior to that I was the SVP running marketing for all of the industries at Salesforce. And then I'm old, so lots of other things before that. Nice. But yes, been at sitecore for a year. And if folks don't know sitecore, sitecore is in the digital experience space. Been around for about 24 years. And what does that mean? We're covering everything from content to experience experience. Think websites all the way to commerce. We were one of the companies who back in 2001 were really instrumental in building the CMS or content management system space. We were really the first to deliver composable to the market. And I like to say I believe we're first in delivering intelligent DXP or intelligent digital experience platforms to the market as well.
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Greg Kilstrom
Nice, nice. So yeah, let's dive in right there. And first thing I want to just from a definition standpoint, you know, talk a little bit about, you know, what, what exactly is an AI powered or an intelligence powered dxp? So why don't we do that by starting to talk a little bit about the challenges that marketers face. And one of those is certainly there's lots of talk. We've been talking about personalization I feel like for like ever, but it's becoming more and more real. Right, but you know, creating hyper personalized, hyper high impact digital experiences while staying within budget. Right. Cause those are not always the same thing. So what are some of the things that you're saying that stand in the way of what marketers really need to do to realize some of these things?
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Kathy Johnson
Yeah, for sure. Greg, what I'd really like to start with is what are the three main pain points that marketers are facing today? As a CMO, I'm experiencing these. I hear them from every CMO I talk to. 2. You know, the first is really do more with less. You referenced the budget piece. The second is managing through complexity. I'll talk about that. And the third is around balancing that strategic or long term with the tactical or short term. So if you think about doing more with less, like every marketing team is asked to make a bigger impact right. With their customers with the growth of the business while lowering costs. And every marketer is asked to show our ROI for everything that they do. So it's interesting. Like in a recent CMO council survey, marketing executives reported that improving ROI and demonstrating attribution are the most important improvements that need to be made. The second is managing through complexity. So every marketing team is challenged with ensuring that everything created by a marketer and all of their agencies stays true to the brand. Right. You think of small organizations or large organizations, you know, marketing is complex. Lots of individuals have unique roles, it's a team sport and we have multiple agencies that we work with. And then the third is balancing that strategic or long term with the tactical. And you talked about this a little bit in your intro, right? How the world is changing for marketers today. Marketers are so focused on managing this complexity of the day to day, so they have less time for strategy. So how do you free up this time for marketers so that they can focus on the strategic? There's complexity in the martet stack, there's complexity in market changes. Right. There's just all these layers of complexity for marketers. So one of the things we, we looked at, Greg, is, you know, we did a survey back in, I think it was in September time period and we surveyed marketers across the us, UK and Australia and we really wanted to understand and we know about these pain points, we just talked about, we know the importance of digital experience and hyper personalization that you just mentioned what's really happening to these marketers. And what they said in this survey was that 80% told us that creating that great DX, that great digital experience that comes with hyper personalization and everything really requires a blend of strategy, technology, content intelligence and optimization. But only 27% of them feel that they can do it today. Right. So again going back to those pain points but then also looking at why, why is that so difficult? Part of it is Martech systems legacy technology, part of it is data governance issues. Right. Part of it is a lot of organizations have disparate martech systems. So when you have these disparate systems, going back to what you were asking, it's really difficult to create cohes digital experiences for your customers at every touch point.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah. And so I think that that leads us to the what exactly is this AI powered or this intelligent DXP that can solve some of these challenges? And so you know, sitecore Stream recently announced it at sitecore Symposium. Probably a lot of you saw that or heard that announcement or a little bit ago it sounds like, you know, that's a major step towards this intelligent DXP concept. So can you talk a little bit about, you know, based on some of the challenges that you just described, you know, how do you define an intelligent dxp and you know, how does something like sitecore Stream contribute to that goal?
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Kathy Johnson
Yeah, thanks so much for asking that question. I bet. Greg, there are some people who don't know what DXP or digital experience platform is. So if it's okay with you, let me start there and then I'll talk about the intelligent dxp. So a DXP is really an integrated set of core technologies that support the creation, the management, the delivery and the optimization of digital experiences. And yes, that's websites, but it's not just websites, you know, are united. We have united as a customer of ours, then they use it in digital signage. Right. So it can be any digital experience brought forward. And so when you think about the products or functionality that create or a part of a dxp, you've got a digital asset management system, you have a content marketing platform, you have a content management system. Think websites, you have personalization. Think about the hyper personalization and that importance, the importance there. And then you have search and discovery and all of those pieces make up a digital experience platform. So again, think about going back to that. The comment I made earlier about systems being disparate and how tough that makes it for marketers to create exceptional experiences. When you bring all of these together, you can really have magic happen. So that's a dxp. So then we, I believe, as you know, at sitecore we coined the phrase intelligent dxp. That was really our vision of how do we bring generative AI into a DXP to really make it easier for marketers and develop sitecore Stream on that. So intelligent DXP is really taking your dxp, putting gen AI embedded in it so you're not just tacking it on. And that was the vision that we had. And then what we launched at symposium was sitecore Stream, as I mentioned, and sitecore Stream, Greg is. Oh, as a marketer, I just got so excited when I got to launch it at symposium because it was developed with marketers, for marketers, which is just when I think amazing technology comes to be, when you're building it directly with your target audience to use it. And we created it with Microsoft, we created it with Nestle and Ode Gandhan, who is the global CMO of Nestle, actually did a video talking about how she was using sitecore Stream, which is just so exciting. So we built it with customers like Nestle and others. We built it with my team and other CMOs B2B and B2C and really want to look at what are all those workflows that are required for marketers so that, you know, marketers would start their day in sitecore. Right. As you think about how do you manage through all these pain points that we have, how do you manage to what you're trying to accomplish, that hyper personalization, those exceptional digital experiences for your customers and how do you do it in a way that makes marketing really shine?
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Greg Kilstrom
You know, I think a lot of the focus, and rightfully so, is what that end customer is experiencing and, and that, that journey that the customer's having. But any of us that has worked on the marketing side knows there's a lot that goes into creating those experiences. And we're talking omnichannel now and you know, all testing all of those kinds of things. So I want to talk a little bit more about the workflow of this. And so one of the features that you refer to of sitecore Stream is AI enhanced workflows. So automating repetitive tasks, stuff like that. Can you talk a little bit more about that, maybe share some examples of what does this mean as far as automated workflows and how can this enhance some of that productivity and collaboration?
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Kathy Johnson
Yeah, for sure. And, and Greg, I think one thing that's super interesting, I know all marketers love data, so I just want to share some data from a recent survey result which shows why this is so important. But you know, we did another survey we did with Microsoft and Avenon, we just launched it this week and it was all around AI and marketing workflows. And 74% of companies using are using AI and marketing, but only 12% are prepared to do it at scale. And then add on to that that 86% of the companies using AI do not use a standardized AI toolset today. Right. And when you think about it, think of the thousands of Martech tools out there. And I read recently that I think 77% of new tools that are being created and launched today have AI in them.
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Greg Kilstrom
I believe it. Yeah.
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Kathy Johnson
Yeah. I mean, so just think of that complexity. Right? So what we really wanted to do was you look at your core set of content and experience, which is so much of what a marketer brings to market. How do we offer a solution that is an add on to that across everything you do? So think about simplifying the complexity, think about getting rid of disparate systems. Right. Which is a pain point for marketers. So you mentioned it earlier too. Marketing's a team sport. Right. And there are all these specialized roles in marketing and to bring positive, effective, efficient experiences to market requires this beautiful and seamless orchestration across marketers with lots of collaboration. And so the workflows are really intended to help us with that. Right. The sitecore stream has three main pieces that is brand aware AI, it has AI enhanced workflows and it has copilots to make it easier. The AI enhanced workflows really support marketing teams from the very beginning by helping create clearer, more effective campaign briefs. Ask any marketer out there how much it costs when you have a bad brief, whether it's loss of time to deliver to market, whether it's actually the cost of having the agency redo the work for you. Right. Like effective campaign briefs are so critical when you think of time and you think of cost and actually you also think about consistency in market and what you're trying to accomplish. So sitecore Stream brings all of these collaborators together. So think about your internal teams, think about all of your agencies out there into a unified orchestration layer. And that minimizes the time locks and handoffs. It minimizes, it cuts down and the delays that happen in review cycles. So it really just manages that whole workflow for you.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah. And so you touched on this a little bit, but I want to get to the, you mentioned kind of the siloed usage of everybody may have their go to like AI tool or whatever that they lean on. And I think in a sense that's helping productivity in the sense of getting things done quicker. But it's not really promoting brand consistency or really the long, the long game, which is people working better collaboratively together and all that kind of stuff. So can you talk a little bit about what does it look like when that kind of stuff is more centralized and everybody's using a common platform?
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Kathy Johnson
Yeah. Well, let's talk about the brand piece. And this is really where Nestle leveraged the work with Microsoft to leverage the work with sitecore. And one of the statements that Aagrandan stated in this video she created, which is available on our, our website and YouTube, is that she really sees this as the future of content operations and I'll explain why. So again, think of that complexity of all of these marketers. Think about the complexity of working with all these agencies. How do you ensure that your brand is consistent in market? Because branding consistency helps build trust and trust helps build engagement. Right. So it's so important that we manage that really well and it's really the marketing team that is overseeing that mostly. So it's really important that we get that right. So part of fightcore Stream is A piece that we call, you know, brand Aware AI and that's all about being grounded with an organization's unique brand architecture through brand kits. So you have these brand kits, they're using the customer's brand assets, the guidelines and the key documents and they're being uploaded into sitecore Stream so they can really understand, so sitecore Stream can understand the, and respect the nuances of a brand's identity, the brand's tone, the visual style, so that everything that the AI is suggesting really aligns with the brand values. Because again, we need to be consistent so we can build trust, so we can build engagement and market. So that's one of the things that's just really important and, and that's what, as I mentioned, Nestle has done. They call it their brand assistant, where they've taken the ingestion of all the AI, they're sharing it across all of their agencies and their thousands of marketers in countries all over the world. And one of the things I like to sort of share is that it's not just the ingestion piece. But think about this for a moment because marketers pivot all the time. So what if something happens in market and you make a change, right to your brand, to your brief. How do you ensure that every marketer around the world, every agency around the world is using the latest for consistency? And so when you're ingesting this onto the brand Aware AI and into a capability called sitecore Stream, that's an add on to all of your content, all of your experience, then all of a sudden you've got one integrated solution that is ensuring that every marketer everywhere in the world is being consistent, the brand based on the latest information.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, that's great. Yeah, that, that consistency means, can mean a lot and the speed to that is, that's very compelling. Another thing just kind of talking about alignment in general and you know, certainly there's some concerns and around AI and data privacy. Can you talk a little bit about that? How does the design of sitecore Stream address some of these challenges and what guardrails are in place to protect brand compliance and customer data, things like that.
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Kathy Johnson
Greg, that is so important. And one of the things in this recent survey that we did, that I mentioned with Microsoft and Avana, that just launched this week, is that we asked what are marketers most concerned about? And 61% of them are concerned about data privacy and security. I also recently held a CMO dinner where many of the CMOs around the table Variety of industries. Right. Variety of company sizes had that as a major concern as well. Right. Their companies are concerned, they're concerned, etc. And so first and foremost, you know, Sitecore, we, we do not use our customer data to train the underlying AI models. And, and I, I would just give this advice to every marketer when they're evaluating any AI technology out there. Again, 77% of the new technology of AI like that needs to be a question you ask will my, you know, company confidential, my ip, my customer data be used to train any AI models or not? And we are not using that. We definitely have those very strong guardrails we're built on Microsoft that has had strong. Oh, strong guardrails as well. So your will never be used to train our models. And that's really, really important.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah.
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Kathy Johnson
And then in addition there's the secondary guardrail around brand. Because a lot of companies think about especially regulated industries, healthcare, financial services. Right. It's so important that your language be, I'll use the word perfect because you have all of these regulatory issues and constraints. You have to stay within it. By using these brand kits. It also ensures that you're staying true to what you need to say and avoiding what you can't say in all of your materials across all of your marketers and all of your agencies. So there's the overall, you know, we're not using your data to train the AIM models and the brand kits that you can use within sitecore Stream also help ensure in every industry, most importantly and regulated, where they had a lot of restrictions, you're, you're staying with it being true to language that you can and avoiding a language you can't use. And I think those two pieces really can give comfort to marketers around the data privacy and brand compliance rules.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, I mean I think that's a great, that's a great usage of, you know, there's concerns that, you know, I may open up things. But that's a, that's a usage of technology to actually close some of that, those loops. Right. So that's, that's really. Right, that's really, that's really important. I want to talk a little bit more about the generative AI components as well. And you had, you had mentioned copilots and yes. Wanted to dive in a little bit more on that. So you know, sitecore Stream uses some copilots for some, for many tasks it sounds like. So can you talk a little bit about, you know, how, how they support marketers in doing their work?
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Kathy Johnson
Sure, yeah. Just going back to the framing again, sitecore Stream has three core elements. We've talked about the brand aware AI, we've talked about the workflows, and now we're going to talk about the co pilots. So really that almost that agents that you get to work with right across the process. So every copilot is grounded in the customer's unique brand guidelines. We just talked about that a moment ago. And all of your assets. Right. And then we have co pilots along the way. So think about a content copilot, a campaign copilot and experience copilot. So a content copilot really ensures that the drafts that you're creating reflect the brand's tone and the experience. Copilot recommends web page layouts that align with the brand standards. And the campaign copilot suggests personalized elements. Again, going back to what you mentioned at the beginning, hyper personalization is so important. So these pilots are really helping you, you know, determine what you should do, what you can do, and actually also making recommendations of how to make things better when you think about personalization. So again, those co pilots are all around, you know, brand content, campaign and experience.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah. Could you maybe give an example of, you know, what's what, what's an example of this in action?
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Kathy Johnson
Yeah, sure. So let's talk about. Imagine there's a customer that's launching a new product campaign. Okay. So they start by uploading their campaign brief and brand assets into sitecore streams. So again, thinking about feeding in, you know, that brand kit piece, but also your campaign brief. So the content copilot would quickly then generate a brand aligned like social media posts, blog snippets like email drafts, like ensuring that every single piece of snackable content and every piece of overall content reflects the brand's tone, reflects the brand's messaging. At the same time, then the experience copilot is recommending what's the best web page layouts for the campaign Landing page again, adhering to the design standards that have been ingested into the tool or into the functionality. And then as the team sets up the landing page, the campaign copilot suggests personalizing the hero, right, to show different visuals or messages for specific audience segments seeking a different industry. How should they receive the communication visually and in content form. And everything then is managed within sitecore Stream. The customer can execute the campaign faster. Think about full brand consistency. Always think about achieving a seamless and effective launch across channels. And we mentioned this, I mentioned this just a moment ago a bit about Nestle. They piloted and are now using generative AI with their brand guidelines and their toolkits and they're using what they call the brand assistant to facilitate that brand and category knowledge within their organization and with all of their agencies around the world. So think about it as your helper, right? Sort of pointing you in the right direction when you think about orchestration, but also giving you suggestions for improvement based on past performance and knowledge.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah, that's great. I think that really paints the picture of just how like the breadth of ways that this can help and just, you know, throughout the process. And I think a lot of, yeah, I think there's a lot of, you know, immediate benefits here. I wonder, you know, if you could take us maybe few months, years down the road and talk a little bit about the future of AI and DXPs and how do you envision AI continuing to shape this landscape of DXPs and what advice would you have to marketers that want to stay ahead here?
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Kathy Johnson
It's such a great question. This is definitely a really interesting time for sure. And Greg, I see it really in two ways. How do companies what's going to happen from a company perspective and what's going to happen from a marketer perspective, From a marketing perspective? I hope every marketer is embracing AI. I mean, this is one of the questions I ask whenever I host a CMO event, like are you using an AI? Are you using it daily? Are you learning from it? I often tell my team, Greg, that if we're doing the same marketing today that we did yesterday, then we're already behind and gen AI makes this more true than ever before. There is an adage out there which I'm sure you've heard, that AI won't replace marketers, but marketers who know AI will. So I think the first thing I just want to say is a marketer, like marketers always need to test and learn anyway. Every marketer should be using Gen every day and learning from it so that they're staying on top of. So I just wanted to level set that. I think that's really uber important. It's not something you outsource to your team. Everyone needs to do it. And then from a comfy perspective, I believe that the companies who embrace AI technology embedded in the technology they they trust. Again, thinking about the privacy, data privacy that we just spoke about a minute ago, those companies will be the ones that win. They'll win in productivity, they'll win in efficiency, they'll win in freeing up their teams to have more time for strategic thinking. So that they can out beat the competition.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah.
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Kathy Johnson
And I really believe that eventually it'll be the companies who don't embrace the new technology who will be left behind. And Greg, I'm old enough. This is embarrassing maybe, but I'm old enough that I was in marketing when the Internet became a thing. Imagine that. And the company I was at had been around for 30 years and I had gone to whomever in the organization and it was like I want us to build a website. This is the new thing. We need to build a website. And nobody wanted to do it. They were afraid of it, they were afraid of compliance, they were afraid of privacy, they were afraid what it would mean. And some people even said to me it's not going to be a thing, it's a fad. Right. And so the CIO or the head of IT at the time and I just locked arms and we just built that first website. So you think about all these years later, could you imagine a company being successful today without a website?
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Greg Kilstrom
Right, right. I know.
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Kathy Johnson
And so I think that analogy is really important because I feel like the conversation, the dialogue on gen AI today is very similar to the conversation and dialogue I heard on the Internet all those years ago. Like the unknown can be scary but we have to embrace it and otherwise we will be left behind as a company. And then from sitecore specific, from a sitecore specific perspective you really see us continue to add AI driven functionality to our dxp. Right. I already mentioned that tools today, technology today is all coming out with AI in IT and at the same time data privacy and security is so important. So we want to ensure that our customers have the opportunity to really benefit from gen AI in a technology like sitecore stream on sitecore that they can trust. That helps a marketer do their best work, that helps, that becomes that place where a marketer can start their day and can have those co pilot assistance making all along that journey. Right. Of orchestration with the brand aware AI and the AI embedded workflows.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah. Love it. Well yeah and I, I definitely share your, your sentiment about the, the parallels between early days of the Internet. I, I do, I remember those days when it was, it was, it wasn't a question of like what should we do with our website but should we have one. So I, I, I, I do feel like we're at another moment. Like there's been plenty of buzzwords and you know Mark, we marketers love our buzzwords and acronyms and all those things but there's been plenty of those. But this does seem like one of those moments where, you know, there's real practical benefits and there's real, you know, I think there's going to be a growth in, in the divide of leaders and laggards, you know, over the months to come, not even just years. So definitely agreed your sentiments there. Well, Kathy, thanks so much for joining today. This has been great talking with you. I've got one last question for you. I like to ask everybody on the show, what do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?
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Kathy Johnson
Yeah, I love that question. I think it's really about being curious. Right. We, we spoke about that a little while ago. Like marketers need to always read and know what the latest things are that are coming out. Right. I have a joke that it's not joke, it's a true fact that I knew about TikTok before my teenage children. I introduced them to it.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah.
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Kathy Johnson
Now they use it way more than I do. But it's so important as marketers that we're always reading and looking for trends and things happening in markets. So being curious, asking question, listening to podcasts. I love listening to podcasts and reading. I mean I walk my dogs every day. That's my podcast listening time. I read every night before going to sleep. Those are really how I carve out those two moments in a day that are so important as well as there's always the joke. I would say that finding the minutes between the seconds and when you can find those minutes between the seconds, you know, catching up on something, reading something out there is important. And CMO networks is the last thing I'll say. Like I just love working with, conversing with like learning from other CMOs and, and CMO networks are just a fabulous way to ask questions, get some learning and just test things out.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, love it. Thanks. Thanks for those insights. Well, again I'd like to thank Kathy Johnson, CMO at sitecore for joining us today. You can learn more about Kathy and
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sitecore by following the links in the show notes. Thanks again for listening to the Agile brand brought to you by Tech Systems. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show more easily. You can access more episodes of the show at www.greggkilstrom.com. that's G R E G K I H L S t r o m.com While you're there, check out my series of best selling agile brand guides covering a wide variety of marketing technology topics or you can search for Greg Kelstrom on Amazon. The Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively
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fueled production co. Op.
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From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, Stay Agile.
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Kathy Johnson
The agile brand.
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