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The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX
#621: The evolving buyer's journey with Liz Robillard and Kristin Schoenstein, WBR
00:26:57
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- [00:01]
Greg Kilstrom
What's the state of your website? If you're looking for a new digital experience platform or DXP to run your digital experiences, I have the book for you. The Agile Brand Guide to Digital Experience Platforms is part of my best selling series of MarTech books. In this book I explore and demystify DXPs and look at the roles a digital experience platform should play, the different types on the market, as well as how to initially evaluate platforms, then how to best implement a DXP once you've selected it. The book also features a forward from Rupali Jain, Chief Product Officer at leading DXP provider Optimizely, as well as several other thought leaders in the industry. Learn more and get a copy in print or digital now by going to the Agile Brand guide website at www.agilebrandguide.com.
- [00:48]
Liz Robillard
The Agile Brand.
- [00:57]
Greg Kilstrom
Welcome to season seven of the Agile Brand where we discuss the trends and topics marketing leaders need to know. Stay curious, stay agile and join the top enterprise brands and martech platforms as we explore marketing technology, AI, E commerce and whatever's next for the Omnichannel customer experience. Together we'll discover what it takes to create an agile brand built for today and tomorrow and built for customers, employees and continued business growth. I'm your host Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, AI and marketing operations. The Agile Brand Podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, an industry leader in full stack technology services, talent services and real world application. For more information, go to teksystems.com to make sure you always get the latest episodes, please hit subscribe on the app you listen to podcasts on and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. Now onto the show. Ital Palm Springs is coming up soon, February 24 through 27 in Palm Springs, California and I can't wait. Make sure to register while you still can. Today we're going to talk about the evolving buyer's journey and how good data that drives personalization and effective usage of AI are driving today's leading E commerce brands. We're also going to explore what attendees of ETEL Palm Springs can expect, including some exciting new features of this leading event for E commerce brands. To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome Liz Robillard and Kristen Schoenstein from Worldwide Business Research. Liz and Kristin, welcome to the show.
- [02:32]
Kristen Schoenstein
Hi Greg, thanks so much.
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Liz Robillard
Thanks Greg.
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Unknown
Yeah, I guess I should say welcome back to the show because returning champions here.
- [02:40]
Liz Robillard
Excited to be back?
- [02:42]
Kristen Schoenstein
Yes, thanks for having us.
- [02:44]
Unknown
Absolutely. So why don't we get started?
- [02:46]
Greg Kilstrom
For those that didn't catch you last.
- [02:47]
Unknown
Time you were on, why don't you each go through a little background and what you're currently doing at ETEL and wbr.
- [02:56]
Kristen Schoenstein
Sure, I'll start. I'm in the chief of staff role for Etail, which is a relatively new role for me. I transitioned a few months ago, and basically I'm still producing our E tail events on the west and East Coast. So Palm Springs in Boston, but looking at also strategy for the show and just more collaboration across all of our different departments. So it's been a really fun kind of transition, getting to know our teams better and just kind of working on the overall strategy for the show moving forward. And Liz and I work very closely together on both the east coast and west coast shows and really collaborate on the speaker recruitment and writing the programs. And we're also joined by our colleague, Leo Martinez. He's just joined us on Palm Springs as well. So we're really excited about kind of the new setup and our new team.
- [03:53]
Liz Robillard
Yeah, so I have sort of recently taken over Kristin's old role, which was, you know, portfolio director of Ital Palm Springs in Boston. So that basically just means working on the research, working on speaker recruitment. I had previously been working on a couple of other events alongside of working on Etail and other industries. So now I'm all E commerce all the time, and I love it. That's exciting.
- [04:18]
Unknown
Great, great. Well, yeah, let's dive in here. So we're going to talk about a couple things today, and I want to start with the topic of the evolution of the buyer's journey and how that traditional buyer's funnel, you know, anybody that's been in marketing 101 classes or whatever, I'm sure you've seen that many. But the funnel of today is not so much a funnel anymore, but something else altogether. And so I was wondering, can you talk about how the buyer's journey has evolved and why traditional methods like funnels and approaching it as a even linear progression is not serving marketers as well as they used to?
- [05:01]
Kristen Schoenstein
Sure. I'll take this one. This came up quite a bit in research. Kind of the saying that the funnel is dead or, you know, we have to completely rethink the funnel. So we dove into this a little bit on our Palm Springs event. I think it's just coming down to the path to purchase being really blurred and especially Gen Z kind of coming in and changing things up quite a bit. They have different priorities and influences and technology compared to other generations. They're really on social media a lot and using it for all different things. Entertainment, news, social and learning. And all of their shopping is kind of influenced by what they're doing on social. And we're seeing sort of an endless loop of exploration, inspiration, community and loyalty and kind of going back to the beginning for that. So instead of kind of the funnel with the huge, you know, the marketing funnel that has the huge open top and sort of that general advertising, it's more, we're hearing kind of more of an hourglass shape or just sort of across the board different touch points where you have to keep engaging customers in different ways. And I think the challenge here for the brands is to really figure out when to deliver that inspiration for customers to buy. And I'm seeing that customers are really looking for specifics. They want brands to get into a lot of detail around, you know, fit material, they want how tos. So we're seeing brands really focus on video and getting involved with customer reviews and ugc. So it's just a lot more interaction and engagement than in the past versus, you know, where we had that kind of just beginning push at the top of the funnel. We're also seeing, you know, this new generation. They're very price conscious, they're very value driven, they are doing a ton of initial research before they buy. They're doing a lot of price comparisons, they're searching for things all over the place. So we're just seeing the path to purchase being completely nonlinear, more of like a loop. And brands sort of need to be everywhere along this path. So we're seeing focus on post purchase as well. Not just at the beginning of the cycle, but, you know, after they purchase and beyond. And hence that's our kind of new shape of the marketing funnel that we're seeing.
- [07:26]
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And along the lines of giving those specifics that you mentioned that customers want, some of those specifics can and should be personalized. Right. So like very, very specific to that customer, their point in the journey. All of the above. So, you know, I feel like we've been talking about personalizing for years and years. It feels like we've been talking about it for like decades. But are we finally, maybe with Gen AI, with some of the other tools at our disposal, are we finally at a point where true personalization at scale is possible?
- [08:04]
Liz Robillard
Yeah, I mean, we're thinking that we're really, really getting at least very close to that point, especially when we're talking about personalization at scale as well, simply starting to become a reality. And Greg, you're totally right. With AI, with machine learning, you know, retailers can create personalized experiences that feel super tailored no matter how they're being, you know, where they're being interacted with online in store. Retailers are using real time data that they have access to to figure out what their customers want, what they need. And they're integrating that data through everything from online shopping habits to purchase history to make those connections really strong. The market for hyper personalization, which is almost sort of like that next step, step. We're hearing the word micro personalization a lot as well, is booming. Obviously this comes with sort of its own challenges though, you know, it, it takes a big investment, it's definitely not a cheap undergoing, and it also comes with a ton of privacy concerns. You know, retailers need to kind of worry about whether or not they're towing that line of, you know, providing value or being a little bit creepy. So that kind of comes with this conversation. But you know, outside of the challenges, I think personalization and where we're at with it is it's kind of an exciting time. And I think it's, you know, what every retailer really, really needs to harness in order to kind of exceed those revenue goals. Get those conversions and, you know, really get that customer satisfaction and loyalty as well.
- [09:30]
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And of course, you know, we're talking about personalization involving AI. You mentioned machine learning, other, other applications of, of AI as well. All of this requires a lot of data, right? And good data at that. And ideally real time data where possible. What are you seeing in terms of how brands are adopting real time data? You know, are brands focused enough on good real time data? You know, the, the, the maximum garbage in, garbage out, you know, how, how focused are brands on this aspect?
- [10:10]
Liz Robillard
Another great question. You know, the level of adoption depending on the companies that we talk to definitely varies. I feel like the more and more we have this real time personalized conversation, the more and more retailers are really getting to understanding what they need in terms of data and what, you know, an actual sort of data governance strategy. Looks like, you know, a lot of forward thinking companies are investing in advanced tools. Of course we talk about CDPs at eTail, which, you know, pulls together different data from, you know, different sources instantly. And that really sort of helps them get that complete view of each customer and respond to them quickly. But it feels like there's still kind of this lack of focus on data quality, which is exactly what you said. Garbage in, garbage out. The smarter brands and the ones that are moving a little bit quicker and have kind of gotten to the root of this problem, are prioritizing the quality over just collecting a bunch of data that doesn't really matter. They're, they're cleaning it, they're validating it, they're storing it properly and they're also sort of breaking down those silos between the different channels as well by integrating information from, you know, their websites, their apps, their CRMs, the in store interactions to really get more of that holistic picture and again, get just the data that they need and get it into the hands of the folks across the business who need it. And of course all that's being helped by investment in tech that helps process all of that data and really get, you know, the business the actual data and insights that they need with, with the results that they need. Yeah, I mean I think it's, it's, it's sort of a mixed bag of where people are at, but I think the, the smarter retailers are really kind of realizing that the key to this is kind of having that clean, well housed and easy to use data.
- [11:59]
Unknown
And so I want to, I want to talk a little bit more about AI. You know, certainly lots of talk about it already in, in a number of, of different ways, but that doesn't mean that everyone is as educated about it as they should be. Right. So I think, you know, events like, like Etel Palm Springs and, and others are, are great opportunities for people to talk about this and share knowledge and, and, and just kind of even commiserate if, if needed about some of these things because it's, there's a lot to discover for, for many brands. But you know, it's highly likely that most attendees of Ital Palm Springs are going to be using AI in some way already. But as we probably know, you know, using a few things, kind of a scattershot approach is not enough to be successful. So with so many platforms each having their own AI, you know, quote unquote feature, there's so much fragmentation which isn't good for marketers either and definitely isn't good for end customers. Can you talk about what you're seeing here? As far as, you know, it's the, there's sort of a, everybody's gotta say they do AI, but there's also, that's, that's leading to this fragmentation. You know, what are you seeing in the market here?
- [13:13]
Kristen Schoenstein
Sure, I'll take this one. I think it's, you're right, we're definitely seeing a lot of fragmentation with the AI landscape with E commerce. And I think that's a big challenge for marketers and the end customer. And everyone's at sort of a different stage in this and the maturity process and technology is constantly changing and I think this is obviously just a progression. But many retailers at west shared their experience with AI implementation, kind of talking about the way that they're using it. And we're seeing that 80% of retailers were already using AI for inventory management in 2024 and 24% had implemented AI driven e commerce personalization. And so it's sort of like different, you know, obviously everyone's using it for, for different things, but it is piecemeal right now. At least it, it feels that way and it can lead to obviously some inconsistencies with the customer experience. For example, a retailer might use AI for chat bots and then they use a totally different tool for inventory management and then they might use another tool for recommendations. And the systems are kind of not to each other. So we're seeing more comprehensive AI powered kind of platforms coming up that are really kind of integrating all of these things. So that is what, you know, what's coming down the pipe. But I think still a lot to, to go here, a long ways to go, I guess you could say.
- [14:47]
Unknown
Yeah, And I think, you know, I would characterize it as there's a high level of awareness about AI but potentially a low level of education about a lot of the details. Right. So, you know, I think one of the things that I know ETEL is, is taking a focused approach on is highlighting real world use cases. So again, not just talking about theory and you know, as much as I love to wax poetic about AI and, and all that stuff and what it could do, it's like looking at real world use cases and case studies rather than, you know, a purely theoretical approach. Can, can you talk a little bit about, you know, why, why that's so important?
- [15:26]
Liz Robillard
For sure, yeah. I think, you know, in 2023 we were coming at AI from such a high level. We were really sort of talking about it from that, like future focus. Here's what could be possible, not really drilling down into the actual use cases. I think in 2024 we got a little bit more into the nitty gritty, some of the things that you could do with it. And I think, you know, through the research for both Palm Springs and I just research for Boston as well, we're almost starting to hear like people are hitting this fatigue point because it feels like again, this sort of fragmented process and just constantly hearing AI. AI, AI. But not really how to kind of streamline it across the business and what that looks like. You know, the reason why we're pretty dead set on making sure that we have all the different use cases, but also sort of a vision for how folks can think about this from a little bit more of a streamlined perspective. So as kind of the dust settles and we start thinking about what this means, like business impact wise, we're seeing that companies are really trying to hone in on how to make the most of everything. They're taking a good look and auditing what they've already implemented, figuring out what works best for them, for their business, for their customers, and then kind of scaling those successful applications across the board. Instead of just dabbling in little experiments and projects, businesses are kind of diving deeper and integrating AI into their real core processes and really sort of identifying the places where it's making an actual impact and making a difference. You know, the secret sauce for success here is just again, making sure that AI initiatives align with specific business goals. I think, you know, there's something to be said about really making sure you're investing in something for the right reason. So anytime you're investing in something new, really tying it to a specific objective. Of course, going back to that data piece, if we're going to be investing in AI, we have to make sure that the data quality is high and accessible. And that's all the key parts to these really strategic use cases. There's also a little bit of a human element, I think, because there needs to be this teamwork between tech folks and business teams and really this understanding across the organization as to what this technology can do and how to unlock its, its benefits. So I feel like there's a little bit of a human conversation that needs to happen too, outside of even just the use cases across the org.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah.
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Unknown
And. And that's a great segue to. The last thing I wanted to talk about is just a little bit more about the event itself and some of the opportunities, certainly a lot of learning opportunities, but also some increased opportunities for networking and other types of education. Can you talk a little bit about, you know, what can attendees expect in Palm Springs and what drove some of the, maybe some of the new aspects of the event this year?
- [18:21]
Liz Robillard
Yeah, absolutely. We are launching a couple of ways to sort of build the E tail community. We've always loved the fact that, you know, our sponsorship manager, Chet, he always says that, you know, coming to ETEL is like coming to a family reunion because we've Got this, you know, really strong community of folks that we've built over the years. But you know, we kind of want to make sure that people who are new to the event maybe haven't been before. You know, our E tail newbies have all the information that they need about the event and can kind of network ahead of the event, get to know each other a little bit and sort of have this built in network before the event starts. So we're doing this, you know, E tail newbies session right at the beginning of the event event just to get, you know, groups of people who haven't been before the chance to, you know, get to know each other and sort of have a built in network. We're also, you know, building out a meet your crew networking event too that's also going to be happening on the first day of the event. Really an opportunity for, you know, like minded folks to bond about certain non work interests. So I think there's like a film buffs, there's a, you know, fitness gurus, there's a bunch of different categories of, you know, different people you might be able to meet at the event. Um, and again, all sort of with the idea of continuing to kind of build the E tail community and making sure, you know, attendees at the event really sort of feel like a part of the family. I think the last new thing that we're doing and this really kind of came out of wanting to make ETO the place. Over the years we've had, you know, so many folks who started out, you know, as managers, senior managers even, who over time have ended up as CMOs, CEOs who have really, you know, throughout the years sort of built their careers, you know, at Etail, have met new people, have networked. So we're going to be doing some career development workshops at the event as well and just sort of give folks who are, you know, just getting started or sort of in a midpoint of their career, you know, the chance to build their personal brand and you know, build their careers at Etail. So those are some of the new things that, that we're working on.
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Unknown
That's great. Yeah. And sounds like you're. This is the first event that you're going to have, an AI summit as well. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
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Kristen Schoenstein
Sure. I actually wasn't sure if Liz was going to say that right when we were talking all this stuff about AI, but you know, we just kind of felt like with the amount of times AI came up in research, it made sense to launch a specific summit around it. So we're doing that on Monday of the show. It's February 24th. It's an all day summit and we're really focused on use cases. Getting really kind of specific into how are different organizations using AI, what are the successes that they've seen, what are some of the roadblocks, you know, how are they, how are they solving maybe internal challenges with implementing AI. So lots of use case specific stuff happening which we're, we're excited about. So yeah, that's happening on Monday alongside our other three summits. So lots to choose from that specific day.
- [21:30]
Unknown
Wonderful. Well, Liz and Kristin, thanks so much for joining. One last question before we wrap up here and just looking ahead to the to Etel Palm Springs, what are each of you looking forward to most this year?
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Kristen Schoenstein
Well, I'd have to say sitting here in the dark and the rain and the wind, I am looking forward to the weather.
- [21:49]
Liz Robillard
I have to say it.
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Kristen Schoenstein
I mean, just getting to Palm Springs in February is like such a relief. So, yes, definitely excited about the warm weather. We do a lot of things outside during the show. So looking forward to the sun. But yeah, it's just, it does like Liz said, it feels like a family. It feels like a reunion. I love getting our whole staff, you know, together practically. I feel like half the company comes. So it's a really nice chance for us, you know, as a team to really bond. But then, yeah, just getting to see all the speakers year after year, I love that part of it. Just kind of the networking piece of it.
- [22:26]
Liz Robillard
I'll also throw in that, you know, I probably shouldn't say this one, but I love the food at Eton. Yes. I feel like I always try to eat as much as I can. We put so much food out and it's always so delish. So that's definitely pretty major highlight for me.
- [22:45]
Kristen Schoenstein
Lots of networking breaks with all different food. Cheryl, our meeting planner really kills it every time with the menus. So yes, I agree.
- [22:53]
Unknown
Liz, that's great. Well, yeah, I agree with all of it. Loved going last year. Looking forward to this year as well. And so again I'd like to thank Liz Robillard and Kristen Schoenstein from Worldwide Business Research for joining the show. You can learn more about Liz and Kristen and Etel Palm Springs by following the links in the show notes.
- [23:16]
Greg Kilstrom
Thanks again for listening to the Agile brand brought to you by Tech Systems. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show as well. You can access more episodes of the show@theagilebrand.com that's theagile brand.com and contact me. If you're interested in consulting or advisory services or are looking for a speaker for your next event, go to www.greg kilstrom.com that's G R E G K I H L S t r o m.com the Agile brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively fueled production co op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and stay agile.
- [24:10]
Liz Robillard
The Agile Brand.