#671: Going national while staying true to your local roots with Jay Rushin, H&H Bagels

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®

Episode #671: Going National While Staying True to Your Local Roots with Jay Rushin, H&H Bagels
Date: May 2, 2025
Guest: Jay Rushin, CEO, H&H Bagels
Host: Greg Kihlström

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Greg Kihlström interviews Jay Rushin, CEO of the iconic New York bagel brand H&H Bagels. The discussion centers on the challenges and strategies involved in taking a beloved regional brand national without losing its authentic local roots. Key themes include brand authenticity, the evolution of customer experience, learning from failure, scaling operations, and striking the balance between heritage and innovation.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jay Rushin’s Background & Approach

[02:45 - 03:38]

• Jay spent 20 years in finance before seeking a small business to acquire, ultimately landing at H&H Bagels.
• Lifelong foodie, not a natural salesperson, sought a business where quality spoke for itself.
• Leveraged financial and operational skills to turnaround and expand H&H.

Quote ([02:56]):
"I spent 20 years in finance... H&H just sort of fell into my lap. But I've been a lifelong foodie. I'm the world's worst salesperson, so I had to find something that would fit my skill set... HH Bagels sells itself and I could put my financial and operational acumen to work to, uh, come turn around and improve it.” — Jay Rushin

---

Balancing Authenticity and Growth

[03:38 - 04:47]

• “What got us here won’t get us there” – The dangers of relying only on authenticity.
• Authenticity must evolve; strictly clinging to tradition can become a trap.
• Respect the brand’s heritage but innovate for daily improvement.

Quote ([04:06]):
"Authenticity can also become a trap, limits evolution. So it's almost, you know, something you want to connect with, but you don't want to wrap your entire brand around because there's a lot of dangers to kind of that." — Jay Rushin

---

Scaling While Staying Authentic

[05:09 - 06:08]

• Core product (bagels) as the anchor of authenticity: same recipe, same method, New York water, high-quality ingredients for 50 years.
• Customer experience has evolved beyond the traditional (and often mediocre) NYC bagel shop experience of the past.

Quote ([05:09]):
"We connect that authenticity with our core product, our bagels. We use the same recipe, the same process that we've used for over 50 years... That's how I think we're most connected to that authenticity is the product itself." — Jay Rushin

---

Trial and Error: Evolving the Customer Experience

[06:27 - 13:57]

• The historic New York bagel shop model was inefficient and not customer-friendly.
• Initial attempt at a QSR-style (Quick Service Restaurant) model failed—too complex for bagel customizations, resulting in more mistakes and poorer customer satisfaction.
• Shifted to a Chipotle-style model, where customers see and guide their orders in real time, allowing for more accurate fulfillment and engagement.
• This model was first tested successfully at Moynihan Train Hall in 2021 and is now used throughout franchises.

Memorable Insight ([13:36]):
"Success only comes after multiple mistakes and, you know, misdirection so, you know, you have to be open to error to succeed and pretty much in anything in life is my point of view." — Jay Rushin

---

Choosing Franchise Partners

[07:09 - 09:43]

• Looks for passionate, brand-aligned partners—many early franchisees had personal connections to H&H and NYC.
• As expansion continues, franchisees have more varied backgrounds but share strong brand awareness.
• Ongoing support, shared learning, and operational calls help maintain brand integrity and foster innovation.

---

The Impact of Pop Culture and Marketing Strategy

[13:57 - 15:11]

• H&H’s appearances in TV shows like Seinfeld and Sex and the City provide cultural cachet, but aren't the core marketing focus.
• The marketing team is encouraged to leverage pop culture, but not rely on it, and to push creative boundaries for the future.

Quote ([14:20]):
"We absolutely love that pop culture history... But I've always told our marketing team that should never, it should never rely on it and it should never hold them back from evolving the brand, exploring their creativity and, and, you know, having fun with, with all of that." — Jay Rushin

---

Getting Franchise-Ready and Scaling Operations

[15:33 - 17:08]

• Most operational and customer experience adjustments were completed before scaling.
• Building a 20,000 sq. ft. Queens bakery enables quality control—every global H&H bagel is made there, ensuring consistency.
• Routinely gathers feedback from franchisees for ongoing, incremental improvements.

---

National Expansion: What’s Next

[17:10 - 17:49]

• Upcoming locations: Washington, D.C., West Palm Beach, Jacksonville, Knoxville, Tampa, and more—including additional LA and Jacksonville spots in the fall.
• At least half a dozen more cities planned by year end.

---

Staying Agile as a Leader

[18:00 - 18:48]

• Jay emphasizes being “a thinker, reader, researcher, explorer.”
• Openness to failure, ideas, and change are crucial to staying agile.
• Fosters a culture of constant evolution, growth, and improvement.

Quote ([18:00]):
"I'm a big, big believer that success comes from keeping a flexible, open mind at all times... being open to failure, open to change, open to being wrong, open to someone out there having a better idea than you and accepting that that openness really creates a culture for, you know, evolution, growth, improvement and really kind of staying current." — Jay Rushin

---

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Balancing Local Roots with Growth ([04:06]):
  "Authenticity can also become a trap, limits evolution." — Jay Rushin

• Learning from Setbacks ([13:36]):
  "Success only comes after multiple mistakes and, you know, misdirection so, you know, you have to be open to error to succeed..." — Jay Rushin

• Pop Culture Presence ([14:20]):
  "We absolutely love that pop culture history... But I've always told our marketing team that should never, it should never rely on it and it should never hold them back..." — Jay Rushin

• Personal Leadership Philosophy ([18:00]):
  "I'm a big, big believer that success comes from keeping a flexible, open mind at all times... being open to failure, open to change, open to being wrong, open to someone out there having a better idea than you..." — Jay Rushin

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Jay Rushin’s Background – [02:45]
• Balancing Authenticity and Growth – [04:06]
• Product Consistency Across Locations – [05:09]
• Customer Experience Evolution – [09:55]
• Learning from Failure – [13:36]
• Pop Culture and Marketing – [13:57]
• Franchise Readiness and Scaling – [15:33]
• National Expansion Plans – [17:10]
• Staying Agile – [18:00]

---

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a candid look at what it takes to scale an iconic local brand in a way that honors its heritage while driving innovation and national growth. Jay Rushin’s journey is characterized by analytical thinking, willingness to learn from mistakes, and commitment to both quality and organizational agility. Listeners interested in brand evolution, franchise operations, and authentic growth will find valuable, actionable insights throughout this conversation.

Transcript

[Pura Summer Collection Narrator]

Close your eyes. Summer smells like sunshine, fresh citrus and salty air. What if your living room could feel just like that? With Pura's new summer collection, it can restore your sense of well being with fragrances designed to move with your day. From bright, energizing mornings to soft, relaxing evenings. Make the invisible unforgettable. This season, visit pura.com to find your new favorite summer scent.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Podcast Host]

Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Jay Rushin]

Oh no.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Jay Rushin]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

[Jack Welch Management Institute Announcer]

The agile brand.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Welcome to Season seven of the Agile Brand where we discuss the trends and topics marketing leaders need to know. Stay curious, stay agile and join the top enterprise brands and martech platforms and as we explore marketing, technology, AI, E commerce, and whatever's next for the Omnichannel customer experience. Together we'll discover what it takes to create an agile brand built for today and tomorrow and built for customers, employees and continued business growth. I'm your host Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, AI and marketing operations. The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, an industry leader in full stack technology services, talent services and real world application. For more information, go to teksystems.com to make sure you always get the latest episodes, please hit subscribe on the app you listen to podcasts on and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. And now onto the show.

[Podcast Host]

How do you take a brand that's iconically local and make it feel authentic everywhere? That's a challenge facing every regional brand trying to scale when your name is practically synonymous with a place like H and H is with New York City, growth isn't just about expansion. It's about staying true to what made you iconic in the first place. Today I'm joined by Jay Rushin, CEO of H& H Bagels, a brand so New York it's practically a supporting character on episodes of Seinfeld and Sex and the City, Jay has been leading the charge to take this beloved local brand national. With over 70 franchises signed and new locations popping up from Boca Raton to Santa Monica.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Jay, welcome to the show.

[Jay Rushin]

Thanks Greg. Appreciate it, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Looking forward to talking about this with you. Before we dive in though, why don't you give us a little bit about your background and you know, how you came to H and H. Sure, yeah.

[Jay Rushin]

I'll give you the kind of 32nd version, but I spent 20 years in finance and probably the last five years of that I was looking around the country for a small business to acquire H. H just sort of kind of fell into my laps and, you know, worked from there. But I've been a lifelong foodie. You know, I'm the world's worst salesperson. So I had to find something that would fit my skill set so that I could actually succeed. So H H Bagels sells itself and I could put my financial and operational acumen to work to, uh, come turn around and improve it. Nice, nice. That's how we got here in 30 seconds.

[Podcast Host]

Great, great. So, yeah, I mean, and that's actually, that's a great segue to the first thing which is, you know, about, about growth. And so, you know, you, you landed at, at hh. There's a phrase that what got us here won't get us there, you know, won't get us where we need to go. So, you know, it's a phrase we hear a lot in business. How do you balance growth with also preserving that authenticity? You know, H and H certainly is a beloved New York City institution. So how do you, how do you balance those?

[Jay Rushin]

Well, I'd say that I have, I guess I have a little bit of a different lens on the subject. You know, in my opinion, authenticity can also become a trap, limits evolution. So it's almost, you know, something you want to connect with, but you don't want to wrap your entire brand around because there's a lot of dangers to kind of that. So we want to stay connected to our history. All the amazing things that the brand has built over the half century that it's been around. But we also want to evolve and improve every day and become better at what we do every day. So I think that's kind of how we look at it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. So when you're opening locations in places like Florida, Southern California, how do you. How do you do, you know, kind of what you just said, you know, balance, balance some of that legacy, but also be open to the new and know, make sure the experience still feels like H and H. But even when you're thousands of miles away.

[Jay Rushin]

Yeah, for sure. Well, I would say we connect that authenticity with our core product, our bagels. We use the same recipe the same process that we've used for over 50 years, we still fully kettle our bo our bagels in New York City water. We use absolutely the best quality ingredients and the bales and all of our products. So that's how I think we're most connected to that authenticity is the product itself. And then everything around that we want to evolve and improve the entire customer experience is thankfully much different than the very traditional New York City bagel experience from 20, 30 years ago, which was not that great. So how do you connect a great product with a better service model than the traditional? That was the challenge that we took upon ourselves to, to kind of figure out that, that, that mouse trap. So.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, well, and, and I think that's. That that plays well to what you were saying, which is, you know, keep the good things, but be willing to evolve the things that need improvement. Because to your point, the, the bagel. The bagel re experience of 1985 or whatever, not necessarily what consumers are expecting today.

[Jay Rushin]

Right, exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself. You know, we went through a lot of, a lot of trials and tribulations to, to kind of land on the right service model because the bagel category is complicated and it has some unique challenges that other categories don't have. So you don't know what you don't know. Right. So 20 years in finance, I had to experiment and learn on the go. So, you know, that was an evolution in and of itself. Yeah. Once we landed on that, on the right customer service model, then everything. We were able to kind of build everything around that. And that's, you know, what we've done over the last decade.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, well, and so that, that growth also includes franchise groups. So, you know, you've, you've signed three new franchise groups, it sounds like, to open 20 new locations. How do you find the right partners? You know, what are, what are you looking for in a partner? And what, what do they need to understand about the, the brand?

[Jay Rushin]

Yeah, I mean, I would say that all our franchise groups were probably up to the mid teens of different territories at this point. They're really, really passionate about the brand. They absolutely get what we're doing and where we're going. We love that about them. That's what attracted us to doing, doing deals and giving territories to these groups. And, you know, ultimately we want to work with those smart, driven, passionate groups that are aligned with the brand, aligned with the goals, and again, they kind of get what we're doing and where we're going. So we've had, you know, we're, we're, we're really lucky to have the groups we have already, and we're excited to continue opening, you know, the rest of this year.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah. And, and in that kind of understanding of the brand, is it, you know, you mentioned the, you know, the product itself is, is kind of the thing that, that stays true and authentic. Is it. Are you looking for partners that kind of get the product itself, or is there a New York City connection? You know, how, how do you, do you balance those things?

[Jay Rushin]

I would, I would say probably our first kind of half dozen groups were all connected to the brand, connected to the history. Yeah. Literally, they, you know, you lived in New York City or grew up in New York City or, or thereabouts. And you know, you know, how many times I've heard early on, like, I used to go to H and H on the Upper west side with my parents while I was in elementary school, you know, so there was a real direct connection for the, for kind of those first movers in the franchise groups as we've now opened locations around the country, and that interest level is broadening out. You know, there isn't necessarily that direct, you know, experience necessarily. It's might have been, I lived in New York for a couple years during college or in my early professional career or, you know, something like that that's a little less direct. But, you know, across the board, the brand awareness is extremely high.

[Podcast Host]

Talk a little bit about the, the evolution of the customer experience. So, you know, since you've been involved, you know, how. What were some of the things that you looked at and, you know, saw some room for improvement and stuff like that.

[Jay Rushin]

Sure. Well, you got to go back to your original, like, New York bagel model, which is effectively what I acquired and walked into in 2014. You know, the customer comes up, they place an order with a person. That person then disappears and goes and makes their order for them. And then you magically reconvene at a cash register and either you or the person that's helping you tells, tells that cashier what, what they got, and you take your bag and you anyway, but, you know, I guess, you know, coming, coming with new eyes. It didn't, it didn't seem very efficient to me at the time. Yeah. And it didn't seem very customer friendly at the time. So my first thought was to do like all the QSRs did and that you walk up, you place your order of the cashier, that order gets printed off in the back line, and then someone makes you order comes and brings you the bag. And, yeah, you know, it seemed much more efficient. So in 2016, when we opened our second location at the time on the Upper west side, that's what we did, and it was an epic failure. It did not work. So. And that's where the complications of the bagel category comes in, because there's so many modifiers in the bagel category that the cashier ultimately wasn't able or willing to kind of type in that many details about every order. Light toasted, dark toasted, lightly spread, heavy spread, scooped on and on and on and on and on. So, you know, what we thought was going to improve that mistake profile actually did the opposite. And the mistakes went up, customer satisfaction went down. So back to the drawing board. So that, you know, took some time to evolve and explore, and we really decided to go with the, you know, like that Chipotle model, where it's all customer facing. It really clicked with us, as was, you know, thinking of thinking it through, that if the customer could almost participate in their order being made and the team member is facing them and communicating with them, that all of those modifiers can. Can be not only communicated to the team member, but also could be caught if something was going wrong. Because you're looking through glass and watching it being made. Yeah. So that's where we shifted, and our first model was out for the Moynihan Train hall back in 2021. We could tell, literally within seven days, that we had finally figured out the kind of the mouse jack for the. For the bagel category. And then we went and closed our west side. We remodeled that, and that was kind of the final impetus to launching the franchise business, once we understood what that did for the model and how that could scale nationwide. So. Yeah. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Well, I mean, so it sounds to me like even though the, you know, the very first attempt to change things was not a pure success, it sounds like, you know, you're kind of being outside the. The industry, so to speak, coming in. You know, it forced a way of looking at things. And again, maybe the first attempt didn't. Didn't work as well, but the second attempt, to me, kind of sounds like a melding of the two of the two. Right. So it's like you've gotta. You've gotta maybe make a misstep once in a while to get to the right thing. Is that. Is that how you see it? Oh, I have.

[Jay Rushin]

Absolutely. I'm. I'm a firm believer that success only comes after multiple mistakes and, you know, misdirection so, you know, you have to be open to error to succeed and pretty much in anything in life is my point of view. Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So I first heard about H and H. I'm a huge Seinfeld fan. You know, I remember that episode well, Kramer was on strike and all that stuff. H and H has been featured there on Sex and the City and others, you know, New York based shows and things like that. How does that cultural, you know, cachet factor into like how you market the brand?

[Jay Rushin]

Sure. Yeah. Look, we, we absolutely love that pop culture history that's like really the last golden age of true television and you know, it won't ever exist again pretty much for the history of the world. So, so we love that connection. But I've always told our, our marketing team that should never, it should never rely on it and it should never hold them back from evolving the brand, exploring their creativity and, and you know, having fun with, with all of that. So, so we touch on it from time to time. We, we, we, we definitely love, love that connection, as I said. But yeah, but you know, every, everybody's got, every brand needs to evolve and improve and grow otherwise, you know, weathers and dies. So.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, you talked through how you modified the customer experience kind of prior to scaling as a, as a franchise. What are some of the things that either you learned or did once you started franchising and growing, you know, what needed to kind of change and, and stuff like that?

[Jay Rushin]

Sure. You know, fortunately, 95% of it we, we accomplished prior, prior to scout. That's good. And that's probably what took us so long. You know, a lot of people ask me what, what took us so long? Why now? And it's like, oh, why now is because we finally got everything done that, you know, we could legitimately look outward and, and be capable of scaling nationally and be successful scaling nationally. Yeah, it's not easy. Like may look easy, but the years of effort to get to this place is what, you know, people can't necessarily see. So it took us years to develop and build a 20,000 square foot bakery in Queens, New York. But now every single bagel globally is, is, is made out there. And now we know that the product is going to be the same whether it's in Los Angeles, California, New York, New York, Boca Raton, Florida or anywhere else in the entire globe. So. Yeah. And then, you know, we already talked about the COVID customer service model. We updated and re our brand early last year. So, you know, really now it's just small evolutions and small changes. You know, as I alluded to with the franchise groups, we had a ton of really smart people and you know, they bring us ideas. We have consistent operations calls with the ownership and the operators and we're very open minded to the new ideas and making adjustments on the fly.

[Podcast Host]

That's great. That's great.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So along those lines then, you know, what do you see on the horizon? You know, is it, is it continued growth? Is it, you know, where do you see things going?

[Jay Rushin]

Oh, we've got a lot of new markets on the way, so Washington, D.C. we're going to open next month. Nice.

[Podcast Host]

That's, that's my neighborhood, so.

[Jay Rushin]

Oh, great. West Palm beach and Jacksonville are opening sometime in the month of June. Knoxville and Tampa in August. We've got more locations in the early fall in Los Angeles and Jacksonville as well. Then we've got a lot more that we haven't announced yet in the back half of the year. So stay tuned. We've got probably at least a half dozen more cities coming by by end of the year.

[Podcast Host]

That's great. That's great. Well, thanks so much for joining, Jay. One last question for you. I'd like to ask everybody, what do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?

[Jay Rushin]

Oh, that's, that's a big question. I would say, I would say by nature, I'm a thinker, reader, researcher, explorer. That's just kind of my personality. So, you know, from that vantage point, I'm a big, big believer that success comes from keeping a flexible, open mind at all times. So, you know, what does that mean? To me, that means being open to failure, open to change, open to being wrong, open to someone out there having a better idea than you and accepting that that openness really creates a culture for, you know, evolution, growth, improvement and really kind of staying current. Yeah. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Love it. Well, again, I'd like to thank Jay Rushin, CEO of H& H Bagels, for joining the show. You can learn more about Jay and HH Bagels by following the links in the show notes.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Thanks again for listening to the Agile brand brought to you by Tech Systems. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show as well. You can access more episodes of the [e-mail] that's theagile brand.com and contact me if you're interested in consulting or advisory services or are looking for a speaker for your next event, go to www.greggkilstrom.com. that's G R E G K I H L S t r o m.com the Agile brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively fueled production co. Op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and stay agile.

[Jack Welch Management Institute Announcer]

The agile brand. The Jack Welch Management Institute at Strayer University helps you go from I know the way to I've arrived with our top 10 ranked online MBA. Gain skills you can learn today and apply tomorrow. Get ready to go from make it happen to Made it happen and keep striving. Visit strayer.edu Jack WelchMBA to learn more. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chevin as many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.

[Pura Summer Collection Narrator]

Instacart makes grocery shopping easier and just because you're not doing the shopping yourself doesn't mean you don't care how it's done. With Instacart, Shopper notes, you can get particular about what you want right in the app. Like rotisserie chicken that's extra crispy steak with marbling the Romans would have loved, and lettuce you'd actually pick yourself. Just leave a note for your shopper so they can get it right for you without having to ask. That way you can get groceries just how you like. Download the Instacart app and shop today.