← The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX
The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX
#674: The continued evolution of e-commerce with Eitan Koter, Vimmi
00:31:27
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- [00:01]
Strayer University Announcer
At Strayer University, we help students like you go from Is it possible To Anything is possible by offering access to up to 10 no cost gen Ed courses so you can reach your goals affordably and fast. Visit Strayer Edu to learn more. No cost Gen Ed is provided by Strayer University affiliate sofia. Eligibility rules apply. Connect with us for details. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by CHEV and has many campuses including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.
- [00:30]
Ayten Kotor
Lets talk groceries. Specifically your groceries. With Instacart you want your groceries just the way you like them, right? Well, the Instacart app lets you do just that. They have a new preference picker that lets you pick how ripe or unripe you want your bananas. Shoppers can see your preferences up front, helping guide their choices. Instacart get groceries just how you like
- [00:58]
Strayer University Announcer
the Agile Brand.
- [01:07]
Greg Kilstrom
Welcome to Season seven of the Agile Brand where we discuss the trends and topics marketing leaders need to know. Stay curious, stay agile and join the top enterprise brands and Martech platforms as we explore marketing, technology, AI, e commerce and whatever's next for the omnichannel customer experience. Together we'll discover what it takes to create an agile brand built for today and tomorrow and built for customers, employees and continued business growth. I'm your host Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, AI and marketing operations. The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, an industry leader in full stack technology services, talent services and real world application. For more information go to teksystems.com to make sure you always get the latest episodes, please hit subscribe on the app you listen to podcasts on and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. Now onto the show. With the rapid rise of shoppable video, AI driven recommendations and immersive technologies like AR and VR are traditional e commerce strategies becoming obsolete? Today we're joined by Ayten Kotor, co founder and co CEO of Vime, a shoppable video SaaS company revolutionizing E commerce. And Ayton is also the host of the E Comm Pulse podcast where he shares insights from over two decades of experience in startups, public companies, even a NASDAQ ipo. His deep understanding of e commerce, technology and entrepreneurship makes him the perfect guest to discuss how these worlds are converging to reshape the online shopping experience. Welcome to the show Ayton.
- [02:44]
Ayten Kotor
Thank you so much Greg. It's a pleasure to be here.
- [02:47]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, looking forward to talking about this with you and definitely with your experience here, have a lot of insights to share. But before we dive into that though, why don't we start with a little more about your background and your current role at Vimy and what inspired you to launch a shoppable video SaaS platform?
- [03:05]
Ayten Kotor
Yeah, so I'm like almost two decades in the, let's call it the broader video space. Right When I started we called this domain broadcast tv. Right. TV stations, satellite company, cable companies. And my CEO back then told me if you start in the video industry, there's no way to go out, to get out. I mean you're going to stay here for the rest of your career. So it was really strange back then, but it was so right because video has evolved so much. Obviously today video is like everywhere and obviously used in marketing activities for brands and enterprises. But it also we have like media and entertainment type of videos, educational video training. And video is just like all over. I watched it scaled from kind of a lean back, you know, living room type of a of experience to like being used in variety of business use cases as well. And obviously with the, with the Internet or with the rise of the Internet is video can be used also in variety of aspect of use cases as well. On the business side of things, video today is so much connected to marketing and business goals and the special version of interactive video, shoppable video or live shopping video. And there are like issues of augmented reality and virtual reality and all this immersive commerce is something that's really differentiated traditional product page with just a couple of pictures to really a more immersive experience which generates much more conversion rate, reduces cart abundant and create much more meaningful experience between brands and customers.
- [04:44]
Greg Kilstrom
Great. Yeah. So let's dive in here. And you touched on this a little bit. But I want to start with just the talking about shoppable video in general and kind of starting with the big picture. Why shoppable video? Why is it such a powerful tool for e commerce and how is it changing the way that customers are shopping?
- [05:07]
Ayten Kotor
Yeah, so shoppable video is this idea of making a checkout process from within the video. It's an interactive type of video where data layers are integrated on top of the video player itself. Let's say from the consumer type experience. Having the ability to click on variety of call to actions while they're watching the video. That call to action can be a buy now button which redirects them to a product page or to a checkout page for creating checkout, what we call video checkout. So you can watch a video, can be someone, a host or some kind of an influencer or content creators or someone from the brand itself creating some type of content. We're probably showcasing a product and you can actually click on a button to buy through that video player while you continue watching that video. Now what drives this shoppable video is the ability of brands to start deploying conversion opportunity through video. So we know it's so difficult to acquire new customers to your own website, right? In like five years ago, you would have spent, you know, advertising money on Facebook or Instagram or YouTube. You knew that you can find 5x10x this ROI to make sure that you're generating enough business. Today these days are gone, right? It's so competitive, it's so difficult. CPCs are increasing. And one of the things to differentiate on mark in marketing is through video from few reasons. One, the social media networks are encouraging content creation, specifically video, because it keeps users more engaged and more time on their app. So algorithms are favoring videos. Second, is that because of that fact that advertising cost is expensive. So a lot of brands are happy to sell and do some kind of a rev share with different channels like their marketplaces, social networks, publishers, in order to deploy video and sales opportunity with social media networks, right? So again from that fact that it's so expensive to bring customers to your own website. So social commerce is, is a huge trend that drives everything together and the vehicle or the fuel for, for social commerce is video, right? So social commerce is going to be like an $8.5 trillion market in 20, 20, 30. It's like booming all over. Think about the ability when we do this endless scrolling on TikTok or Instagram or YouTube or whatever. Then suddenly you see a video. That video can be organic, but it also can be promoted. But it gives you the ability to purchase and it uses a lot of data, a lot of insights and intelligence to make sure we give you the right product at the right times, just to increase the probability to convert. And it happens all over the place. It happens. The interactive videos are happening on your own website as a brand, but also on your own social channels. And just as a summary, just to discuss the few types of shoppable videos. One is the these vertical short form videos that we all know from TikTok and Instagram Reels and YouTube shorts. We have also a longer form of video which is more, I would say horizontal or 16 by 9 type of video. It traditionally goes to YouTube and we also have a live video, right? Those live events. But we call them live shopping event. It gives the host, there is a professional host showcasing products and gives users the ability to purchase like from within the show itself.
- [08:36]
Greg Kilstrom
Got it. So it sounds like shoppable video maybe has had its origins in social commerce, you know, kind of that, that area. But it sounds like it's, it's still, still there. But there's other applications for it as well. So it's kind of, it's, it's kind of gotten out of the bounds of, you know, purely social commerce. Because you mentioned, you know, you can have videos on a website or other things like that. Is that, is that kind of what's happening?
- [09:00]
Ayten Kotor
Exactly. It started by the way this whole trend started in China right about five years ago where we have like professional host, this is their day job. They just stand in front of a camera selling product on the major super apps. Right Then the migration to the west started about four, three, four years ago. And, and the idea is that okay, let's start deploying these live shopping events on our own website and do some pre marketing for that. There is what you need to do before the event, during the event and after the event. So you would create these newsletters and try to promote this on social media. Hey, next week, Thursday 8pm we have a half an hour show. We're going to showcase our new products. Here is the coupon code. Just building a FOMO towards these events. These events were traditionally shown on the website. Brands did it just to get the data because anyone who is just joining these events needs to sign up in order to use the chat. For example, because this event has a chat system so shoppers can ask questions and moderators can respond. But eventually it has become so expensive to just encourage users to join. So we started with this multi channel era where those events are distributed across definitely the customer, the brand's website, but also on his own social media account. If he's using influencers, then the influencers will show them. And in the video platform we can push the event also on the influencer social social account. And by the way, if our customer is an offline retailer with traditional brick and mortar stores, we can also stream those events to digital signage or to like digital screens like in the, in the, in the shelves or in the retail space itself. So it's really an omnichannel and multi channel type of experience and definitely within, also inside the brand's website. And sometime we see if it's done right more than like 30% or 50% increase in conversion rates to purchase using these during these events and are there,
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Greg Kilstrom
I mean it seems like certain types of like products lend themselves very well to this. But are there, you know, are there specific industries that, or you know, brands that gravitate towards this? Does this apply to any, you know, any brand? Like how, how do you look at that?
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Ayten Kotor
Great question, Greg. It started obviously with those, let's say smaller products that you can showcase, you know in a small screen.
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Greg Kilstrom
Yeah.
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Ayten Kotor
Usually below a hundred dollars that within 30 seconds you can show like a transformation. Right. So it's usually it started from cosmetics. Right. Like before they are after the cream or the mega. Right. Then some probably fashion. Right. And gadgets. Right. This is where it started. But what happened with TikTok or we can call it the TikTok ification effect. Right. That and definitely since the launch of TikTok shop in the US and in some many other countries around the world it started just to. And it happens so fast that almost every category is now available on TikTok and on Instagram Reels, on YouTube shorts. Because even like you know, high ticket items, even furniture for example, you know we have car dealers who are selling cars on TikTok. It's like unbelievable that this halo effect the TikTok and Instagram reels and YouTube shorts has on the overall marketing of the, of the, of the business. And you can see like substantial increase in sales if it's done right. The whole idea with short form videos is to be authentic and to be consistent. Right. And we teach customer to create content depending on the funnel of where they are in the, in the overall marketing funnel and what's which steps they are. It's not just pushing, pushing product product it's about creating educational content marketing information. Because if you're an unknown brand, no one wants to buy from you, you need to build some credibility. You need to build relationship true value you provide. And once your users are knows you better, they're more open to accept some kind of a proposal from you. And if it's done right it can achieve amazing results. And again it's 100% organic.
- [13:08]
Greg Kilstrom
Right.
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Ayten Kotor
That's the beauty of it. But it requires a commitment. No one cares about backgrounds and all that stuff. People are looking for type of content and authenticity and this creates a winning combination. Definitely if it's done by the brand owners or the founders which is what we call EGC like employee generated content or funnel led growth or funnel LED content. It's the most I would say effective marketing channel you can have today which is like doesn't cost you Anything and the algorithm would just, just push you. But you need to be committed, committed for at least two to three months to learn what's working for you and how the, you know, all the algorithms is working for you and make sure that you adapt quickly and be agile based on data you receive from the platform itself.
- [14:00]
Greg Kilstrom
And so for some simply adding the interactivity of the video, that's a game changer. You mentioned some of the increase in click throughs and conversions. What about things like augmented reality VR and how are technologies like that transforming E commerce and you know, are they, are they emerging still? Are they, are there some, some things in practice today as well?
- [14:31]
Ayten Kotor
Yes, obviously there are great examples of augmented reality and I mean we see augmented reality all over right. In our social apps and it's very, very, it's obvious that is out there and there are like great use cases about integrating augmented reality, for example virtual try ons. Right. And just check things in AR and it's, it's, it's really, really helpful. And if it's done right, the data shows that conversions are higher and customer loyalty are like dramatically higher because of them. AR helps a lot with returns. You know, in some of the niches returns are like 50% and above. It's like really, really problematic number.
- [15:06]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah.
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Ayten Kotor
And so AR is like vital just for, just to maintain a healthy balance sheet and make sure that things are done right. VR and this type of call it again, social commerce. We talked about social commerce as a use case for shoppers to purchase online on social media networks. But social commerce is also the ability to purchase together with colleagues and with friends. Social purchasing let's say and social commerce and VR just gives this opportunity. So think about a scenario where you go to a product page. It's more of an immersive experience. It works on a regular browser. You don't need special know eyeglasses or anything of that sort. But it's a group experience and you go start traveling within a journey through kind of some kind of a tunnel where you see variety of digital shelves and you can enjoy the experience of the product from 360 degrees. And it's much more immersive experience. And like they're like great, great use cases for creating sales opportunities right by the big, you know, lvmh, I mean like the big brands like that, they're using this in a very, very smart way. And obviously these use cases like AR VR are 100% more adopted today for training, for customer support. Right. To explain things faster and just to educate. But Definitely they are part of what we call the immersive commerce or V commerce. What's coming ahead in terms of the way that product pages is going to showcase and is definitely, I mean we are the beginning of this age and this is definitely where it's going.
- [16:39]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, I mean and that idea, the immersive commerce, I mean it sounds like it can take a few different or it can utilize a few different methods and stuff. But really, you know, our brands, is it only just, you know, a handful of brands that are really embracing this or you know, where, where do you see are we still early days here and. And you know what's kind of holding some of those companies back from more immersive commerce?
- [17:04]
Ayten Kotor
Yeah, I think most brands and as you know, let's say brands are divided into like those big enterprises and you know, we have the small medium businesses and then you have like the solopreneurs, right? So I think like definitely solopreneur small medium businesses. They are so busy with trying to win more business, trying to launch Amazon, trying to launch TikTok shop. I mean these are like huge project. They are still in the basic foundations of everything. If you are like digital native just starting out today. Yes. You can just bypass this and start immersive. This is what we try to teach our customers. Build this video based e commerce platform. This is something we do here at vime. And the idea is to from the get go those product pages are like enriched with videos, encouraging brands to create videos whether through their team or through content creators or influencers. But also there are so many AI tools, right, with like AI avatars and AI video creation and it's moving so fast and it gives the ability to create a much better experience. And obviously the big enterprise, because they have such a huge team, they have for example innovation teams and they have labs where they can test so many things. And usually these new and innovative ideas and technology starts from the big companies. And this is where most of the effort is going. And because it's new, it's still an experimentation world stage. Remember like virtual reality tv which was like a big thing probably a decade ago. I mean it was like all over the place, right? But how many of us are really watching VR like 360 video VR on TVs right?
- [18:47]
Greg Kilstrom
Right.
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Ayten Kotor
More things is like purchasing from a big screen, right? So for example CTV shopping, right? So obviously Netflix, Disney, all the these digital video services launched advertising packages, right? And there is an ability with a QR code even to check out. So we're still experimenting Purchasing on a big screen for a traditional media and entertainment type of experience where our mind is just moving to this reptilian mode, right. We have our remote control, two clicks. It's like a lean back type of experience. And now, hey, we need to be leaning forward, we need to think and even engage and, and purchasing is a, is a, is a lean forward, is an engaging type of experience. So there's a lot of psychological elements to this whole user experience and still under an investigation by a lot of companies just experimenting and trying a variety of use cases and see what's, you know, what's working and what's not.
- [19:44]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah. And so you mentioned AI, you know, as a component of things. I wanted to talk a little bit about AI and its connection to personalization. Certainly, you know, in many areas of the business, you know, personalization is key and can drive better results. Customers now expect personalization to some degree in their, in their experiences. From a video perspective, you know, how does AI work to improve effectiveness of shoppable video and things like that?
- [20:16]
Ayten Kotor
That's a great question. And another great question, Craig. So I mean video gives us so much data, right? Compared to any text base or even audio based type of ad or post. Because we know who are you, where are you watching from, on which device, when did you start, when did you stop, why you stopped, why your colleagues stop. I mean this richness of data just. We take this to a big data lake and use a lot of AI to create really small decision about variety of business KPIs and also video KPIs. So in our system, for example, we give recommendation about language, length of the video, time of the day, when to post, what's working better for you, is it live, is it short form, is it long form, even about the script itself. So this is like gold. This type of information is super, super important. And through segment audience segmentation we have the ability to create like messages and just outreach through the platform to make sure that we are recommending the correct product and even the correct videos just to make sure that those clicks to convert are increasing. And there is a lot of development in this space, not just from user data, right. And try to come up with a better ideas and better campaigns. But also AI is used for video creation, right? You know we, we see that for example picture based, it's very clear now with solar and some, so many tools, you know, video like text to video tools. Right. And also just duplicating yourself as a host or as someone who is just creating videos in Front of the, in front of the camera. Just this AI avatars. It gives you the ability to really most people were not identified even today. Right. It's just the beginning of this era will not be able to identify that this is an AI avatar in any way. Right. So that's so powerful in just multiplying reach and scale and capacity of this video throughput. It's really amazing. And just to test things out and see what's working. It's so important because it's really an organic free way to increase video today or to increase overall marketing performances in such a critical component of any marketing plan. This AI and specifically video for AI which was kind of a more complex type of creative that is used through AI. It's great promise because it's not just helpful on these sales event or this promotion event where through live or non live, but it's also great for just this customer support and just moving from an AI text based bot to a video style type of bot. And just you know, when you go to any website there is someone who's, who's accepting you and greeting you and you know it's a bot. It will talk to you, get your questions answered and when it says hey this is too much for me, it can direct you to a real person and people are accepting this type of behavior and it's going to become more and more common and the future is really exciting on that respect.
- [23:24]
Greg Kilstrom
You know, to kind of circle back to the original topic. You know, I think we've got these, these two things to balance. So we've got you know, kind of the origins of like social commerce was like a person showing, you know, kind of a personal, a personal message which obviously resonated, resonates and resonated with a lot of people. And then we've got the incredible effectiveness of AI to be able to personalize and scale and all these kinds of things. What's your advice for a brand that's trying to reconcile, you know what's, how do they, how do they try to find the right. But the balance may be different for different brands depending on a million criteria. But like how should they think about finding that right balance between the personal and the, the automated?
- [24:09]
Ayten Kotor
Yeah. So first personal and automated is obviously the right way to go and this is what's, what's winning. Right? It's. And again a good combination of just give first, having this mentality. Right. Provide value first and then find opportunities to sell through through some special ideas like join a loyalty program, coupon code, special promotions. And all AI is definitely should be part of the, of the plan by the way. Not just for the video production itself, but also generating content ideas. Try to probe for customer sentiment, for pains, for gains, for opportunities. Just creating these topics of ideas about what content and what type of content to create. So that's also very, very important. It's okay for having this probably more product based or just showcasing features, no face, right? Just discussing and just branded videos, it's also fine. But having the right combination of authenticity which is so super, super important because this is what differentiates by the way today between brands, right? So having the ability to for the brand owner or for the executives and some members of the team to create this holistic marketing effect. Think about the brand where you see, you know, a members of their marketing team or member of their, you know, three PL operation or inventory team or even the CEO is saying something. And this holistic messaging that comes from all over is very, very, very powerful. And we teach, anyone can do that, right? We teach people, users or and brands how to do that, how to create that list of content ideas, how to start standing in front of a camera and just be there and show yourself. I understand that it's not for everyone but with AI and AI avatar it's so easy just to duplicate this effect. I think that, you know, no CEO or VP Marketing or CMO in the job description there is an item, hey, you need to create content, right? But I think it's the first line, right? You have to have the experience. But if you create content, you just put yourself, just you differentiating yourself from the rest and you provide so much value to the company that you work for and you're building your own tribe or community which is another aspect of video creation. Just create a community. I mean foster, foster a space for connection and dialogue. This is definitely true for Gen Z. I mean if your brand just approaching Gen Z. So you must work on TikTok and you must foster this community type of activities, support and a cause, right? So align your brand with values that matter, right? So stand for something meaningful. Definitely work with creators which is another very, very effective form of marketing. You can you know, debate if Facebook ads or Instagram ads are worth it. Definitely on if you're on Amazon then Amazon ads, I mean it's very, very competitive and it's probably a game starting to be a game of the big players and you need a high budget for that. But if you go authentic videos, if you go creator based, if you, you know, foster gen some kind of A community building and you focus on just being genuine and true to yourself. So this is like free advice and free actionable tasks that anyone can do. And all the networks are favoring it. And definitely this new generation of buyers that are just coming over right now, all over the place.
- [27:32]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah. So looking out a few months, few years, maybe even, what are you keeping an eye on as far as innovations in e commerce? What's, you know, what's, what's top of mind for you right now? Maybe not ready for prime time, but like that, that's, that's worth keeping an eye on.
- [27:51]
Ayten Kotor
Yes, I see. Again then taking personalization to the next level in every aspect of the funnel. Okay. Not even, you know, the webpage itself, the product itself can. The product page itself can be personalized. The checkout experience, even if you are on a brand website. Right. How it can't be one size fits all. Right. We need to learn from data, what's working and, and customize this experience to everyone. Like the entire experience. Right. From just lead generation to even those just customize these landing pages which can adapt automatically. Definitely the ability for web pages to be more immersive using this video and interactive video. As we spoke before, just making video more scalable, more adapted in variety of organization. Definitely with the use of AI. So there. Yeah, personalization is a big topic. I see more and more. Like more than 90% of companies are already using video in their marketing. So this will expand to more type of videos which are more immersive or more live videos or more interactive type of videos. And what drives everything is this social commerce. You know, big boom. Because social commerce is something that no one can ignore. Most of the brands are, you know, building their own shops on those variety of networks and it will continue to evolve. Like for example, we see new brands like the first thing that you do usually as a brand, you're building kind of a shopify store try to sell. But no, we see brands that just the first thing that they do is just launching their own TikTok shop. And in TikTok shop you can. You have the affiliate marketplace. You just find few affiliates, you gift the product to them. Doesn't cost you anything. It cost you on the rev share. Right. Sometimes even it can cost you up to even 35 or 40%. But you start with no cost. Right. Just gifting or seeding these products and you start selling and TikTok will take care about your entire fulfillment experience. Similar to Amazon. Definitely. This is what's happening in Asia. In Asia, most of the companies, most of the brands are starting out on TikTok because you can build an amazing Shopify store but no one knows about it. But if you launch your store, Your shop on TikTok TikTok bring you customers because of you using this affiliate network marketplace which just expanding the reach of your network. Yeah. So definitely these are the key trends that I see personalization, use of AI and social commerce.
- [30:17]
Greg Kilstrom
Great. Well thanks so much for all of your insights. One last question for you before we wrap up. Like to ask this to everybody. What do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?
- [30:30]
Ayten Kotor
Okay, great. Yeah. So work life balance is very, very important. So I, I mean for, for me I learned that just prioritizing things is the most important thing and, and just keep time for for and space to do things that you like. So I'm all into mountain biking so I ride a lot. I'm also on the holistic side of things or I'm a Qigong certified teacher. So I do a variety of Chinese meditation practices and try to keep balance right in space for everything. And when I work it's like total focus and I know when to stop and when to do some other things. It's very, very important to have the right team to build this kind of a culture in the company. This is something we are really, really proud of now in vime.
- [31:14]
Greg Kilstrom
Wonderful. Well again I'd like to thank Aitan Kotor, co founder and co CEO of Vime for joining the show. You can learn more about Ayden and Vimy by following the links in the show notes. Thanks again for listening to the Agile Brand brought to you by Tech Systems. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show as well. You can access more episodes of the show@theagilebrand.com that's theagile brand.com and contact me if you're interested in consulting or advisory services or are looking for a speaker for your next event, go to www.gregkillstrom.com that's G R E G K I H L S t r o m.com the Agile brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned strategy driven, creatively fueled production co op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and stay agile.
- [32:20]
Strayer University Announcer
The agile brand. At Strayer University we help students like you go from is it possible? To anything is possible by offering access to up to 10 no cost gen Ed courses so you can reach your goals affordably and fast. Visit Strayer. Edu to learn more. No cost Gen EDS provided by Strayer University Affiliate sofia. Eligibility rules apply. Connect with us for details. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chev and has many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.