← The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX
The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX
#674: The continued evolution of e-commerce with Eitan Koter, Vimmi
00:36:57
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- [00:00]
Greg Kilstrom
Your brand may be staying on top of current trends, but are you agile enough to stay relevant, resilient and successful as customers, competition and the world continues to change at a breakneck pace? I'm thrilled to share the newly revised version of my first book, the Agile Brand. I'm calling it the Agile Brand Revisited. It's been updated to reflect our continually changing world and it provides seven principles that form the backbone of an agile brand, offering detailed insights and actionable steps for incorporating them into your business strategy. This is the book that started it all and I'm excited to share it with you. It's now available in print and digital formats and available everywhere. Learn more by going to the Agile Brand guide website at www.agilebrandguide.com.
- [00:46]
Aytan Kotor
The Agile Brand.
- [00:55]
Greg Kilstrom
Welcome to season seven of the Agile Brand where we discuss the trend, trends and topics marketing leaders need to know. Stay curious, stay agile and join the top enterprise brands and Martech platforms as we explore marketing technology, AI, E commerce, and whatever's next for the Omnichannel customer experience. Together we'll discover what it takes to create an agile brand built for today and tomorrow and built for customers, employees and continued business growth. I'm your host Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, AI and marketing operations. The Agile Brand Podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, an industry leader in full stack technology services, talent services and real world application. For more information, go to teksystems.com to make sure you always get the latest episodes, please hit subscribe on the app you listen to podcasts on and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. Now onto the show. With the rapid rise of shoppable video, AI driven recommendations and immersive technologies like AR and VR, are traditional e commerce strategies becoming obsolete? Today we're joined by Aytan Kotor, co founder and co CEO of Vime, a shoppable video SaaS company revolutionizing E commerce. Ayten is also the host of the Ecompulse podcast where he shares insights from over two decades of experience in startups, public companies, even a NASDAQ ipo. His deep understanding of e commerce, technology and entrepreneurship makes him the perfect guest to discuss how these worlds are converging to reshape the online shopping experience. Welcome to the show Ayton.
- [02:31]
Aytan Kotor
Thank you so much Greg. It's a pleasure to be here.
- [02:34]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, looking forward to talking about this with you and definitely, you know, with your experience here, have a lot of insights to share. Before we dive into that though, why don't we start with a little more about your background and your current role at VIME and what inspired you to launch a shoppable video SaaS platform?
- [02:53]
Aytan Kotor
Yeah, so I'm like almost two decades in the, let's call it the broader video space. Right When I started we called this domain broadcast tv. Right. TV station, satellite company, cable companies. And my CEO back then told me if you start in the video industry, there's no way to go out, to get out. I mean you're going to stay here for the rest of your career. So it was really strange back, but it was so right. Because video has evolved so much. Obviously today video is like everywhere and obviously used in marketing activities for brands and enterprises. But it also we have like media and entertainment type of videos, educational video training and video is just like all over. I watched it scaled from kind of a lean back, you know, living room type of experience to like being used in variety of business use cases as well as. And obviously with, with the Internet, with the rise of the Internet is video can be used also in variety of aspect of use cases as well. On the business side of things, video today is so much connected to marketing and business goals and the special version of interactive video, shoppable video or live shopping video. And there are like issues of augmented reality and virtual reality and all this immersive commerce is something that's really differentiated traditional product page with just a couple of pictures to really a more immersive experience which generates much more conversion rate, reduces cart abundant and create much more meaningful experience between brands and customers.
- [04:31]
Greg Kilstrom
Great. Yeah. So let's dive in here and you touched on this a little bit. But I want to start with just talking about shoppable video in general and kind of starting with the big picture. Why shoppable video? You know, why. Why is it such a powerful tool for e commerce and you know, is it how. How is it changing the way that customers are shopping?
- [04:54]
Aytan Kotor
Yeah. So shoppable video is the. This idea of making a checkout process from within the video. It's an interactive type of video where data layers are integrated on top of the video player itself. Let's say from the consumer type experience, having the ability to click on variety of call to actions while they're watching the video. That call to action can be a buy now button which redirects them to a product page or to a checkout page for creating checkout, what we call video checkout. So you can watch a video. It can be someone, a host or some kind of an influencer or Content creators or someone from the brand itself creating some type of content. We're probably showcasing a product and you can actually click on a button to buy through that video player while you continue watching that video. Now what drives this shoppable video is the ability to of brands to start deploying conversion opportunity through video. So we know it's so difficult to acquire new customers to your own website, right? Like five years ago you would have spent, you know, advertising money on Facebook or Instagram or YouTube. You knew that you can 5x10x this ROI to make sure that you're generating enough business. Today these days are gone, right? It's so competitive, it's so difficult. CPCS are increasing. And one of the things to differentiate in marketing is through video from few reasons. One, the social media networks are encouraging content creation, specifically video, because it keeps users more engaged and more time on their app. So algorithms are favoring videos. Second, is that because of that fact that advertising cost is expensive. So a lot of brands are happy to sell and do some kind of a rev share with different channels like their marketplaces, social networks, publishers, in order to deploy video and sales opportunity with social media networks, right? So again from that fact that it's so expensive to bring customers to your own website. So social commerce is a, is a huge trend that drives everything together. And the vehicle or the fuel for social commerce is video, right? So social commerce is going to be like an $8.5 trillion market in 2030. It's like booming all over. Think about the ability when we do this endless scrolling on TikTok or Instagram or YouTube or whatever. Then suddenly you see a video. That video can be organic, but it also can be promoted. But it gives you the ability to purchase and it uses a lot of data, a lot of insights and intelligence to make sure we give you the right product at the right times, just to increase the probability to convert. And it happens all over the place. It happens. These interactive videos are happening on your own website as a brand, but also on your own social channels. And just as a summary, just to discuss the few types of shoppable videos. One is the these vertical short form videos that we all know from TikTok and Instagram reels and YouTube shorts. We have also a longer form of video which is more, I would say horizontal or 16 by 9 type of video. It traditionally goes to YouTube. And we also have a live video, right? Those live events, but we call them live shopping event. It gives the host, there is a professional host showcasing products and gives users the Ability to purchase like from within the show itself.
- [08:23]
Greg Kilstrom
Got it. So it sounds like shoppable video maybe has had its origins in social commerce, you know, kind of that, that area. But it sounds like it's still there but there's other applications for it as well. So it's kind of gotten out of the bounds of purely social commerce. Because you mentioned you can have videos on a website or other things like that. Is that kind of what's happening?
- [08:48]
Aytan Kotor
Exactly. It started by the way this whole trend started in China about five years ago where we have professional host. This is their day job. They just stand in front of a camera selling product on the major super apps. Then the migration to the west started about four, three, four years ago. And the idea is that okay, let's start deploying these live shopping events on our own website and do some pre marketing for that. There is what you need to do before the event, during the event and after the event. So you would create these newsletters and, and try to promote this on social media. Hey, you know next week Thursday 8pm we have a half an hour show. We're going to showcase our new products. Here is the coupon code. Just building a FOMO towards these events. These events were tradition shown on the website. Brands did it just to get the data because anyone who is just joining these events needs to sign up in order to use the chat for example, because this event has a chat system so shoppers can ask questions and moderators can respond. But eventually it has become so expensive to just encourage users to join. So we started with this multi channel era where those events are distributed across definitely the customer, the brand's website but also on his own social media account. If he's using influencers then the influencers will show them. And in the villain platform we can push the event also on the influencer social account. And by the way, if our customer is an offline retailer with traditional brick and mortar stores, we can also stream those events to digital signage or to like digital screens like in the, in the, in the shelves or in the retail space itself. So it's really an omnichannel and multi channel type of experience and, and definitely with it also inside the brand's website and sometimes we see if it's done right more than like 30% or 50% increase in conversion rates to purchase using these during these events.
- [10:45]
Greg Kilstrom
And are there, I mean it seems like certain types of like products lend themselves very well to this. But are there, you know, are there specific industries that, or you know, brands that gravitate towards this. Does this apply to any, you know, any brand? Like how, how do you look at that?
- [11:04]
Aytan Kotor
Great question, Greg. It started obviously with those, let's say smaller products that you can showcase, you know in a small screen.
- [11:13]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah.
- [11:13]
Aytan Kotor
Usually below $100 that within 30 seconds you can show like a transformation. Right. So it's usually it started from cosmetics. Right. Like before they are after the cream or the makeup. Right. Then some probably fashion. Right. And gadgets. Right. These, these are where it started. But what happened with TikTok or we can call it the TikTok ification effect. Right. That and definitely since the launch of TikTok shop in the US and in some many other countries around the world. It's, it started just to. And it's, it happens so fast that almost every category is now available on TikTok and on Instagram Reels, on YouTube shorts. Because even like you know, high ticket items, even furniture, for example, you know we have car dealers who are selling cars on TikTok. It's like unbelievable that this halo effect the TikTok and Instagram reels and YouTube shorts has on the overall marketing of the, of the, of the business. And you can see like substantial increase in sales if it's done right. The whole idea with short form videos is to be authentic and to be consistent. Right. And we teach customer to create content depending on the funnel of where they are in the, in the, in the overall marketing funnel and what's. Which steps they are. It's not just pushing, pushing product product it's about creating educational content marketing information. Because if you're an unknown brand, no one wants to buy from you, you need to build some credibility. You need to build relationship through value you provide. And once your users knows you better, they're more open to accept some kind of a proposal from you. And if it's done right, it can achieve amazing results. And again it's 100% organic. Right. That's the beauty of it. But it requires a commitment. No one cares about backgrounds and all that stuff. People are looking for type of content and authenticity and this creates a winning combination. Definitely if it's done by the brand owners or the founders which is what we call EGC like employee generated content or funnel led growth or funnel led content. It's the most I would say effective marketing channel you can have today which is like doesn't cost you anything and the algorithm would just, just push you. But you need to be committed, committed for at least two to three months to learn what's working for you. And how to you know all the algorithms is working for you and make sure that you adapt quickly and be agile based on data you receive from the platform itself.
- [13:45]
Greg Kilstrom
Want to learn more and join the discussion About Marketing and AI? Attend the premier conference dedicated to marketing and AI. That's Meacon, the Marketing Artificial Intelligence Conference from October 14 through 16 in Cleveland, Ohio. Meacon brings together the brightest minds and leading voices in AI. Don't miss this opportunity to connect with a dynamic community of experts, visionaries and enthusiasts. The Agile brand is proud to be the lead media sponsor of this important event. Register today@MarketingAI Institute.com that's MarketingAI Institute.com and use the code AGILE150 for $150 off your registration fee. I can't wait to see you there. And so you know, for, for some, you know, simply adding the, the interactivity of the video like that's a huge, you know, that's a game changer. You know. You mentioned some of the, some of the increase in, in click throughs and conversions. What about things like augmented reality, you know, VR and how are technologies like that transforming E commerce and you know, are they, are they emerging still? Are they, are there some, some things in, in practice today as well?
- [15:06]
Aytan Kotor
Yes, obviously there are great examples of augmented reality and, and I mean we see augmented reality all over right in our social apps and it's, it's very, very, it's obvious that is out there and there are like great use cases about integrating augmented reality e.g. virtual try ons right. And just check things in AR and it's, it's, it's really, really helpful and if it's done right the data shows that conversions are higher and customer loyalty are dramatically higher because of them. AR helps a lot with returns. You know in some of the niches returns are like 50% and above. It's like really, really problematic number. And so AR is like vital just for, just to maintain a healthy balance sheet and make sure that things are done right. VR and this type of, let's call it again, social commerce. We talked about social commerce as a use case for, for shoppers to purchase online on social media networks. But social commerce is also the ability to purchase together with colleagues and with friends. Social purchasing let's say and social commerce and VR just gives this opportunity. So think about a scenario where you go to a product page. It's more of an immersive experience. It works on a regular browser. You don't need special eyeglasses or anything of that sort. But it's a group experience and you go start traveling within a journey through some kind of a tunnel where you see variety of digital shelves and you can enjoy the experience of the product from 360 degrees. And it's much more immersive experience. And they're like greater use cases for creating sales opportunities. Right by the big lvmh. I mean like the big brands that are using this in a very, very smart way. And obviously these use cases like AR VR are 100% more adopted today for training, for customer support. Right. To explain things faster and just to educate. But definitely they are part of what we call the immersive commerce or V commerce. What's coming ahead in terms of the way that product pages is going to showcase and is definitely, I mean we are the beginning of this age and this is definitely where it's going.
- [17:14]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, I mean and that, that idea, the immersive commerce, I mean it sounds like it can take a few different or it can utilize a few different methods and stuff. But really, you know, our brands, is it only just, you know, a handful of brands that are really embracing this or you know, where, where do you see? Are we still early days here and, and you know what's kind of holding some of those companies back from more immersive commerce?
- [17:40]
Aytan Kotor
Yeah, I think most brands and as you know, let's say brands are divided into like those big enterprises and you know, we have the small medium businesses and then you have like the solopreneurs. Right. So I, I think like definitely solopreneur small medium businesses. They are so busy with trying to win more business, trying to launch Amazon, trying to launch TikTok shop. I mean these are like huge project. They are still in the basic foundations of everything. If you are like digital native just starting out today. Yes, you can just bypass this and start immersive. This is what we try to teach our customers build this video based e commerce platform. This is something we do here at vime. And the idea is to from the get go those product pages are like enriched with videos, encouraging brands to create videos whether through their team or through content creators or influencers. But also there are so many AI tools right with like AI avatars and AI video creation and it's moving so fast and it gives the ability to create a much better experience. And obviously the big enterprise because they have such a huge team, they have for example innovation teams and they have labs where they can test so many things and usually these new and innovative ideas and technology starts from the big companies. And this is where most of the effort is going. And because it's new, it's still an experimentation world stage. Remember like virtual reality tv, which was like a big thing probably a decade ago. I mean it was like all over the place. Right? But how many of us are really watching VR? Like 360 video VR on TVs, right, right. More things is like purchasing from a big screen, right? So for example, CTV shopping, right. So obviously Netflix, Disney, all these digital video services launched advertising packages, right. So, and there is an ability with a QR code even to check out. So we're still experimenting purchasing on a big screen for a traditional media and entertainment type of experience where our mind is just moving to this reptilian mode. Right? We have our remote control, two clicks and it's like a lean back type of experience. And now, hey, we need to be lean, leaning forward, we need to think and even engage and, and purchasing is a lean forward. It's an engaging type of experience. So there's a lot of psychological elements to this whole user experience and still under an investigation by a lot of companies just experimenting and trying a variety of use cases and see what's working and what's not.
- [20:20]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah. And so you mentioned AI as a component of things. I wanted to talk a little bit about AI and its connection to personalization. Certainly, you know, in many areas of the business, you know, personalization is key and can drive better results. Customers now expect personalization to some degree in their, in their experiences. From a video perspective, you know, how does AI work to improve effectiveness of shoppable video and things like that?
- [20:51]
Aytan Kotor
That's a, a great question. And another great question, Craig. So I mean video gives us so much data, right? Compared to any text based or even audio based type of ad or post. Because we know who are you, where are you watching from, on which device, when did you start, when did you stop, why you stopped, why your colleagues stop? And this richness of data just we take this to a big data lake and use a lot of AI to create really small decision about variety of business KPIs and also video KPIs. So in our system, for example, example, we give recommendation about length of the video, time of the day, when to post, what's working better for you. Is it live, is it short form, is it long form? Even about the script itself. So this is like gold. This type of information is super, super important. And through segment audience segmentation we have the ability to create like messages and just outreach through the platform to make sure that we Are recommending the correct product and even the correct videos just to make sure that those clicks to convert are increasing. And there is a lot of development in this space not just from user data. Right. And try to come up with a better ideas and better campaigns. But also AI as used for video creation. Right. You know we, we see that for example picture based. It's very clear now with solar and some so many tools. You know, video like text to video tools. Right. And also just duplicating yourself as a host or as someone who is just creating videos in front of the camera. Just this AI avatars. It gives you the ability to really most people will not identify even today. Right. It's just the beginning of this era will not be able to identify that this is an AI avatar in any way. Right. So that's so powerful in just multiplying reach and scale and capacity of this video throughput. It's really amazing. And just to test things out and see what's working. It's so important because it's really an organic free way to increase, to increase video today or to increase overall marketing performances in such a critical component of any of any marketing plan. This AI and specifically video for AI which was kind of a more complex type of creative that is used through AI. It's a great promise because it's not just helpful on these sales event or this promotion event where through live or non live but it also great for just this customer support and just moving from an AI text based bot to a video style type of bot. And just you know when you go to any website there is someone who is accepting you, greeting you and you know it's a bot. It will talk to you, get your questions, answer and when it says hey this is too much for me, you. It can direct you to real person and people are accepting this type of behavior and it's going to become more and more common and it really the future is really exciting on that respect.
- [24:00]
Greg Kilstrom
You know, to kind of circle back to the original topic. You know, I think we've got these, these two things to balance. So we've got you know, kind of the origins of like social commerce was like a person showing you know, kind of a personal, a personal message which obviously resonated, resonates and resonated with a lot of people. And then we've got the incredible effectiveness of AI to be able to personalize and scale and all these kinds of things. What's your advice for a brand that's trying to reconcile, you know, what's. How do they, how do they try to find the right. The balance may be different for different brands depending on a million criteria. But like how should they think about finding that right balance between the personal and the. The automated?
- [24:45]
Aytan Kotor
Yeah. So first personal and automated is obviously the right way to go and this is what's, what's winning, right? It's an again a good combination of just give first, having this mentality, right? Provide value first and then find opportunities to sell through some special ideas like join a loyalty program, coupon code, special promotions and all. AI is definitely should be part of the, of the plan by the way. Not just for the video production itself, but also generating content ideas. Try to probe for customer sentiment, for pains, for gains, for opportunities. Just creating these topics of ideas about what content and what type of content to create. So that's also very, very important. It's okay for having this probably more product based or just showcasing features, no face, right? Just discussing and just branded videos. It's also fine. But having the right combination of authenticity which is so super, super important because this is what differentiates by the way today between brands, right? So having the ability to for the brand owner or for the executives and some members of the team to create this holistic marketing effect, think about the brand where you see, you know, a members of their marketing team or member of their, you know, three pl operation or inventory team or even the CEO is saying something. And this holistic messaging that comes from all over is very, very, very powerful. And we teach, anyone can do that, right? We teach people, users and brands how to do that, how to create that list of content ideas, how to start standing in front of a camera and just be there and show yourself. I understand that it's not for everyone but with AI and AI avatar it's so easy just to duplicate this effect. I think that, you know, no CEO or VP marketing or cmo. In the job description there is an item, hey, you need to create content, right? But I think it's the first line, right? You have to have the experience. But if you create content, you just put yourself, just you differentiating yourself from the rest and you provide so much value to the company that you work for and you're building your own tribe or community, which is another aspect of video creation. Just create a community. I mean foster a space for connection and dialogue. This is definitely true for Gen Z. I mean if your brand just approaching Gen Z. So you must work on TikTok and you must foster this community type of activities, support a cause, right? So align your Brand with values that matter. Right. So stand for something meaningful. Definitely work with creators, which is another very, very effective form of marketing. You can, you know, debate if Facebook ads or Instagram ads are worth it. Definitely on if you're on Amazon, then Amazon ads. I mean it's very, very competitive and it's probably a game, starting to be a game of the big players. You need a high budget for that. But if you go authentic videos, if you go creator based, if you foster some kind of a community building and you focus on just being genuine and true to yourself. So this is like free advice and free actionable tasks that anyone can do and all the networks are favoring it and definitely to this new generation of buyers that are just coming over right now, all over the place.
- [28:07]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah. So looking out a few months, few years, maybe even, what are you keeping an eye on as far as innovations in e commerce? What's, you know, what's, what's top of mind for you right now? Maybe not ready for prime time, but like that, that's, that's worth keeping an eye on.
- [28:26]
Aytan Kotor
Yes, I see again then taking personalization to the next level in every aspect of the funnel. Okay. Not even, you know, the web page itself, the product itself can, the product page itself can be personalized. The checkout experience. Even if you are on a brand website. Right. How it can't be one size fits all. Right. We need to learn from data, what's working and, and customize this experience to everyone. Like the entire experience. Right. From just lead generation to even those just customize these landing pages which can adapt automatically. Definitely the ability for web pages to be more immersive using this video and interactive video. As we spoke before, just making video more scalable, more adapted in variety of organization. Definitely with the use of AI. So there, yeah, personalization is a big topic. I see more and more like more than 90% of companies are already using video in their marketing. So this will expand to more type of videos which are more immersive or more live videos or more interactive type of videos. And what drives everything is this social commerce, you know, big boom. Because social commerce is something that no one can ignore. Most of the brands are, you know, building their own shops on those variety of networks and it will continue to evolve. Like for example, we see new brands like the first thing that you do usually as a brand, you're building kind of a Shopify store try to sell. But no, we see brands that just the first thing that they do is just launching their own TikTok shop and in TikTok shop you can you have the affiliate marketplace. You just find few affiliates, you gift the product to them. Doesn't cost you anything. It cost you on the rev share. Right. Sometimes even it can cost you up to even 35 or 40%. But you start with no cost. Right. Just gifting or seeding this product and you start selling and TikTok will take care about your entire fulfillment experience. Similar to Amazon. Definitely. This is what's happening in Asia. In Asia most of the companies, most of the brands are starting out on TikTok because you can build an amazing Shopify store but no one knows about it. But if you launch your store, Your shop on TikTok TikTok bring you customers because of using this affiliate network marketplace which just expanding the reach of your of your network. Yeah. So definitely these are the key trends that I see. Personalization, use of AI and social commerce.
- [30:52]
Greg Kilstrom
Great. Well thanks so much for all of your insights. One last question for you before we wrap up. Like to ask this to everybody. What do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?
- [31:05]
Aytan Kotor
Okay, great. Yeah. So work, life, balance is very, very important for me. I learned that just prioritizing things is the most important thing and just keep time and space to do things that you like. So I'm all into mountain biking, so I ride a lot. I'm also on the holistic side of things where I'm at Qigong certified teacher. So I do a variety of Chinese meditation practices and try to keep balance right in space for everything. And when I work it's like total focus and I know when to stop and when to do some other things. It's very, very important to have the right team to build this kind of a culture in the company. This is something that we are really proud of in vimi.
- [31:50]
Greg Kilstrom
Wonderful. Well again I'd like to thank Ayton Kotor, co founder and co CEO of Vime for joining the show. You can learn more about Ayden and Vimi by following the links in the show notes. Thanks again for listening to the Agile brand brought to you by Tech Systems. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show as well. You can access more episodes of the show@theagilebrand.com that's theagile brand.com and contact me. If you're interested in consulting or advisory services or are looking for a speaker for your next event, go to www.greggkillstrom.com that's G R E G K-I H L S T R O M.com the Agile brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively fueled production co op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and stay agile. The Agile Brand Ever heard of Farm to table? How about Farm to Home? That's how Costa Farms Plant Business works with over 1500 plant varieties grown over 5200 acres. They're not just a company, they're your plant partners who've been perfecting their craft for 60 years. They deliver beautiful, high quality, easy to care for plants. They even offer virtual plant consultations and an insider club for rare plant access. Check out www.costafarms.com today and enter code worthknowing Costa Farms 15 for a 15% discount on your first purchase. You can also purchase this unique plant brand at Lowe's, Walmart, Amazon and Home depot. Go to www.costacostafarms.com today. Before we continue, I wanted to share a key strategic resource that a majority of the Fortune 500 are already aware of. Finding the best technology, business and talent solutions is not easy. With business demands and competitive pressures mounting, you need to be able to design, deploy and optimize your technology to provide leading customer experiences while driving business growth. Those of you that have been listening to the show for a while know that this podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, a global provider of technology, business and talent solutions for more than 80% of the Fortune 500. Tech Systems accelerates business transformation for their customers. Whether you're looking to maximize your technology roi, drive business growth, or elevate customer experiences, Tech Systems enables enterprises to capitalize on change. Learn more@techsystems.com that's T E K systems.com now let's get back to the show.