Podcast Summary: The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®
Episode #678: AI Gains Emotional Intelligence with Joshua Goldberg, Zenapse
Release Date: May 19, 2025

Introduction

In episode #678 of The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®, host Greg Kilstrom delves into the transformative role of artificial intelligence (AI) in marketing, specifically focusing on the integration of emotional intelligence through Large Emotion Models (LEM). The episode features Joshua Goldberg, Executive Vice President of Strategy at Zenapse, who shares insights on how LEM is revolutionizing consumer engagement and driving substantial marketing results.

Guest Background

Joshua Goldberg brings a wealth of experience to the discussion, having a background in building interactive agencies like Organic and leading roles within Zenapse. His expertise lies in connecting brands with consumers through innovative technology and emotional intelligence.

Notable Quote:
"[...] Zen Apps... we're part of the Comcast Lift Labs AI accelerator, and we're also very close with the Google Cloud and Google Gemini teams."
— Joshua Goldberg [02:44]

Defining Large Emotion Models vs. Large Language Models

Greg Kilstrom initiates the conversation by distinguishing between Large Language Models (LLMs) and Large Emotion Models (LEMs). While LLMs focus on processing and generating language-based tasks, LEMs are designed to understand and predict consumer emotions, sentiments, beliefs, and activities to enhance marketing strategies.

Notable Quote:
"LLMs train on billions of words... they're great utilities, but for marketers, they're really looking for a different type of value."
— Joshua Goldberg [05:03]

Application of Large Emotion Models in Marketing

Goldberg explains that LEMs analyze 85 different emotions and beliefs to comprehend what truly matters to consumers. This deep understanding allows brands to tailor their messages, content, offers, and visuals to resonate on an emotional level, thereby increasing the likelihood of conversion.

Key Components of LEMs:

• Emotions: 85 distinct emotional states.
• Beliefs: Core attitudes towards various aspects like money and family.
• Sentiments: Positive or negative feelings toward activities and interests.
• Activities: Consumer behaviors such as travel or gardening.

Notable Quote:
"A Harvard study actually shows that 95% of decision making is emotional."
— Joshua Goldberg [08:20]

Case Studies and Results

Goldberg shares compelling case studies demonstrating the effectiveness of LEMs:

1. Pet Insurance Company:

   • Initial Conversion Rate: 1.8%
   • Post-LEM Conversion Rate: ~9%
   • Cost of Acquisition (CAC) Reduction: 75%

2. Fast Fashion Brand:

   • Strategy: Changed messaging to highlight sustainable materials.
   • Conversion Rate Increase: 20% in a targeted subsegment interested in environmental sustainability.

Notable Quote:
"We saw lists in conversion anywhere between 40 to 400% using this LEM."
— Joshua Goldberg [06:28]

Addressing Challenges and Enhancing ROI

Despite the hype around AI, many marketers struggle to harness its full potential. Goldberg identifies key challenges such as the overwhelming number of tools and the pressure to deliver immediate results. Zenapse's LEM addresses these by offering:

• Immediate Implementation: Access to a vast interaction graph upon sign-up.
• Low-Code Integration: Deployable within four hours using minimal code.
• Privacy Compliance: No personally identifiable information (PII) captured.
• Goal-Oriented Metrics: Focus on tangible outcomes like form submissions and account creations.
• Rapid ROI: Significant returns observed within weeks.

Notable Quote:
"We care about goals and metrics. Did someone complete a form? Did they create an account?"
— Joshua Goldberg [14:45]

Real-Time Insights and Emotional Intelligence

The integration of real-time data allows marketers to dynamically adjust strategies based on consumer emotions. For example, Zenapse identified that 20% of consumers felt overwhelmed during the purchase process. By simplifying messaging for this segment, the brand saw a significant lift in conversions.

Notable Quote:
"When we updated that experience, we saw this incredible lift in conversion."
— Joshua Goldberg [16:19]

Future of AI and Emotional Intelligence in Marketing

Looking ahead, Goldberg envisions a future where LEMs extend beyond current touchpoints to include emerging technologies such as smart homes, wearables, and even self-driving cars. This omnichannel strategy will enable deeper emotional connections and more personalized consumer experiences.

Notable Quote:
"There's a huge opportunity to connect with them on an emotional level, to be able to drive transactions and outcomes."
— Joshua Goldberg [18:03]

Staying Agile: Joshua Goldberg’s Personal Practices

When asked about maintaining agility in his role, Goldberg emphasizes continuous learning and adaptability. He combines reading—such as Chris Voss's Never Split the Difference—with his passion for blues music and improvisation, which enhances his ability to think creatively and respond flexibly in both personal and professional settings.

Notable Quote:
"I'm a blues musician and a big part of what we do is improvise... that's great practice for the business world as well."
— Joshua Goldberg [19:26]

Conclusion

Greg Kilstrom wraps up the episode by thanking Joshua Goldberg for his enlightening discussion on Large Emotion Models and their impact on the marketing landscape. Listeners are encouraged to explore more about Zenapse and the advancements in AI-driven emotional intelligence through the show notes.

Closing Quote:
"Thanks so much for joining today... what we're seeing with LEM is truly transformative for marketers."
— Greg Kilstrom [21:01]

Key Takeaways:

• Emotional Intelligence in AI: LEMs provide a deeper understanding of consumer emotions, leading to more effective marketing strategies.
• Significant ROI: Implementing LEMs can drastically increase conversion rates and reduce customer acquisition costs.
• Real-Time Adaptability: The ability to adjust marketing tactics based on real-time emotional insights enhances consumer engagement.
• Future Potential: Expanding LEM applications across various emerging technologies will further strengthen brand-consumer relationships.

For more insights and detailed discussions, subscribe to The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström® and explore additional episodes at theagilebrand.com.