#691: Gaining agility and results with composable CMS, with Mark Wheeler from Storyblok

Summary

The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX
Episode #691: Gaining Agility and Results with Composable CMS, with Mark Wheeler from Storyblok
Release Date: June 16, 2025

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1. Introduction of the Guest

In Episode #691 of The Agile Brand, host Greg Kihlström welcomes Mark Wheeler, Chief Marketing Officer at Storyblok, to discuss the transformative impact of composable Content Management Systems (CMS) on modern marketing practices.

Mark Wheeler [03:12]: "I've been with StoryBlock now since the end of August last year. It's a great company where what's actually quite interesting about it is we're actually 100% remote, so we don't have any offices."

2. Challenges with Traditional CMS

Mark highlights the inefficiencies associated with traditional CMS platforms, which often hinder marketers' agility and creativity due to their dependency on developers for even minor updates.

Mark Wheeler [04:46]: "Most marketing teams are still stuck in the slow lane, waiting on developers to publish updates, launch campaigns or even fix a typo."

He elaborates on the lag time caused by the "ticket environment," where marketing requests are bogged down by technical processes, delaying critical marketing initiatives.

Mark Wheeler [06:40]: "The CMSs that exist today, they were fundamentally built for a different era. They're rigid, they're highly developer-dependent and they're not scalable."

3. Composable CMS and API-First Approach

Mark introduces the concept of composable CMS, emphasizing its API-first architecture that empowers marketers to take control of content publishing without constant developer intervention.

Mark Wheeler [08:49]: "With a composable API, the marketer now simply uses drag a photo, type in a headline, type in a subheadline, apply their copy so that the structure and the setup is already pre-configured."

This approach allows for rapid content deployment across multiple platforms, enhancing consistency and reducing time-to-market.

4. The Role of Developers and Marketers

The shift to a composable CMS fosters a collaborative environment where developers focus on building robust frameworks, while marketers can execute campaigns swiftly and independently.

Mark Wheeler [11:07]: "So, so with this, when we turn the table, suddenly we're giving developers now way more time not spending time removing commas and changing headlines."

Mark emphasizes that this paradigm shift leads to a "win-win" situation, enhancing both developer productivity and marketing agility.

5. Future of CMS and AI Integration

Mark discusses the evolving landscape of content discovery, particularly the rise of AI-driven search environments. He underscores the importance of an API-first CMS in ensuring content remains accessible and relevant in AI-integrated platforms.

Mark Wheeler [16:10]: "Consumers are moving from the traditional search environment to an AI search as a preference."

He warns that without adopting an API-first approach, organizations risk becoming invisible in the new AI-led content discovery era.

6. Creativity and Personalization Enabled by Composable CMS

Mark explores how composable CMS facilitates enhanced creativity and personalization by leveraging data to tailor content to specific personas and buyer journeys.

Mark Wheeler [20:26]: "With these types of tools, then your ability to start tuning your message to your Persona, starting to tune your message to where a buyer is in their journey, then suddenly creativity... can take you to a whole bunch of new places."

He provides a practical example of using propensity models and intent data to customize nurturing processes, ensuring messages are contextually relevant and timely.

7. Transitioning to a New CMS: Strategies

Mark advises a gradual transition from legacy CMS platforms to modern, headless CMS solutions. He recommends starting with critical projects to demonstrate ROI and build confidence before fully migrating content.

Mark Wheeler [25:47]: "Most organizations aren't just saying oh well let's switch off the old system and move. It doesn't happen."

He likens the transition to "moving house," suggesting a phased approach to retiring old content and refreshing high-performing assets.

8. Staying Agile: Insights from Mark Wheeler

When asked about maintaining agility, Mark emphasizes the importance of staying informed about cutting-edge technologies and making strategic investments in tools with long-term potential.

Mark Wheeler [27:31]: "Spend a lot of time with people who are on the cutting edge of those technologies but doing so in a very pragmatic way."

He cautions against the common pitfall of purchasing numerous tools that end up unused, advocating for careful selection of technologies that offer sustained value.

9. Conclusion

Greg wraps up the episode by summarizing the key takeaways: the necessity of transitioning to a composable, API-first CMS to enhance marketing agility, the synergistic relationship between developers and marketers, and the critical role of data-driven personalization in unlocking creative potential.

Greg Kilstrom [24:59]: "Where should leaders be looking ahead in the next couple of years for the future of CMS?"

Mark reiterates the importance of strategic planning and incremental adoption to successfully modernize content management practices.

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Resources:

• Mark Wheeler: LinkedIn | Storyblok
• The Agile Brand: theagilebrand.com
• Mastermind Group: journeysparkconsulting.com

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Stay tuned to The Agile Brand for more insights from leading experts in marketing technology, AI, and customer experience.

Transcript

[Greg Kilstrom]

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[Mark Wheeler]

The Agile Brand.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Welcome to Season seven of the Agile Brand where we discuss the trends and topics marketing leaders need to know. Stay curious, stay agile and join the top enterprise brands and Martech platforms as we explore marketing technology, AI, E commerce and whatever's next for the Omnichannel customer experience. Together we'll discover what it takes to create an agile brand built for today and tomorrow and built for customers, employees and continued business growth. I'm your host Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, AI and marketing operations. The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, an industry leader in full stack technology services, talent services and real world application. For more information, go to teksystems.com to make sure you always get the latest episodes, please hit subscribe on the app you listen to podcasts on and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. Now onto the show. Is your CMS holding your creativity and marketing growth hostage when speed and agility are everything? Most marketing teams are still stuck in the slow lane, waiting on developers to publish updates, launch campaigns or even fix a typo. Sound familiar? Today's guest says it's time for marketers to take the wheel. Mark Wheeler, Chief marketing officer at StoryBlock, is here to talk about redefining what a CMS should be with a composable API. First platform that puts control back in marketers hands. With clients like Netflix and Adidas, StoryBlock is helping to lead a movement away from bloated, outdated systems and toward a faster, smarter and more flexible way of working. Mark, welcome to the show.

[Mark Wheeler]

Hey, Greg, it's good to be here. I feel like you've done my pitch for me there.

[Greg Kilstrom]

All right, end of show. It's a short one today. Awesome. Well, before we dive in, though, there is plenty more to talk about. Before we dive in, why don't you start by giving a little background on yourself and your current role at StoryBlock.

[Mark Wheeler]

Yeah, I've been with StoryBlock now since the end of August last year. It's a great company where what's actually quite interesting about it is we're actually 100% remote, so we don't have any offices. So we have the 270 employees around the world, believe it or not, in 50 different countries.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Oh, wow.

[Mark Wheeler]

So it's a very interesting business. Doing some exciting, you know, really, I think being pretty disruptive in, in the category before that, I actually used to work for. I've been in tech actually for about nearly 30 years now, but I worked for a German software company before that in the enterprise software category and I was CMO there for three years. Very exciting ride. We actually ended up nearly tripling the size of the business and selling to SAP in November of 2023. But I've also worked for companies such as Adobe Sitecore that are also, of course, very prominent in this category.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah, love it. Well, we'll have to talk at a future time about the distributed workforce. That's a fascinating topic to me. But today we're going to focus on the CMS aspect of things. Why don't we start with, you know, you, you've, as you mentioned, you've been in. Working in Martech and tech for, for quite a while now. What have you seen as far as, you know? Why are traditional content management platforms often struggling to fit the needs of modern marketers?

[Mark Wheeler]

Yeah, well, you know, one of the reasons that I joined storyblock was that as a cmo. So forgetting about for a second the company that I work for, sure. What I, what I saw were pain points that folks like myself were experiencing every day. And you know what it's like when you're chatting with your marketing team, they're like, oh, hey, Mark, I know you want to get this done in the next week, but, you know, I've, I'm going to have to raise a ticket for this. I'm going to have to get this job posted with a couple of developers and, you know, they're telling me they're not going to be able to get back to us on this until, you know, probably later next week. So this is going to take us a couple of weeks for us to get this thing done. And that is just a very familiar story. This sort of ticket environment in which we've got ourselves embroiled in and, you know, we've created a latency that's really holding us back. And I think the problem is, depending on Whether you're in B2B or B2C, the need to get stuff posted digitally, because that is our primary shop front today, it is not measured, doesn't want to be measured in, in, in, in weeks, maybe not even in days. Most marketers would love the opportunity to get stuff posted in about an hour. Yeah, but that isn't today's reality. Part of the reason for that is that the CMSs that exist today, they were fundamentally built for a, a different era. They're rigid, they're highly developer dependent and they're not scalable. So like I say, when marketers want simple changes or they want to experiment, even, you know, really start to jump into some innovation, these platforms are holding them back.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

The other challenge is we're not just marketing to a web browser anymore. Of course, a lot of businesses now, of course, deliver content through mobile applications, whether it's on iPhone or Android. And of course they want a single single content repository to be able to service a multitude of different platforms. So marketers are spending more time chasing tickets than shaping campaigns.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah, well, and it's, it's also kind of counterintuitive because data is getting democratized. You know, in other words, marketers have raised readier access to information in which to make quicker decisions. And yet to your point, when it comes time to actually make that decision and make, make it so, so to speak, they're held back because of things like you're talking about, you know, whether it's submitting a ticket or just technical limitations and. Oh, if I could only just make this happen myself. Right, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

And, you know, I, we, we have, we have quite a few customers in the fashion category.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

And the challenge for them now is, you know, particularly with social media, of course, influencers or those people that, you know, who get photographed regularly.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Right.

[Mark Wheeler]

They may be wearing something on a Sunday, you know, Kim Kardashian's wearing something on a Sunday. You know, first thing on Monday morning, they want to be merchandising.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

That, that top or that, you know, dress, whatever it is, first thing, or something that looks close to it. So that's, you know, that's the speed with which marketers are looking to move and they're just finding it a real challenge.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah. And so what's the, there's, there's, obviously there's limitations from a process and a, like internal structure, you know, organizational structure standpoint. But let's talk a little bit about the composable aspect of this. How does, you know, we've talked about composable plenty on the show, but how does a composable CMS help solve some of these issues? What's the composable aspect of it?

[Mark Wheeler]

Yeah, so what you're finding now is in a headless and API first world, the relationship between marketer and developers is changing because the developer is now able to build these pre built components. So think of it as a layout structure. It's the image belongs here, headline belongs here, subhead belongs here. So you've got essentially a component that defines the structure of how it wants to appear regardless of device. And so with that in place, the marketer now simply uses drag a photo, type in a headline, type in a sub headline, apply their copy so that the structure and the setup is already pre configured. So for a marketer, now I'm empowered to publish myself. I don't need to engage the developer. They've provided me everything I need in order to be able to execute. So now the timeframe is totally on me. And you know, and AI is also starting to play a really important part here too because now, you know, you might want to be able to implement in different languages or you might want to ideate with another content writer. Some of these things can be done incredibly quickly now. But this concept or a pre built component is what changes the game for marketers. With a visual editor, what you can do is simply take control of the publishing process and the creation process yourself and get your content out to market as quickly as you can essentially produce it.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, and I think an important part of that is that it doesn't do away with the developer. There's still, for all the talk of AI replacing at some point maybe that comes to pass, but in the near term or whatever, you know, there's a place for developers, you know, to your point, like they play a critical role in making sure that things are set up, but they're not in the way of marketers. They're, you know, everybody kind of gets to play a strong role, but then marketers can just do what they need to do at the speed they need to do it, right?

[Mark Wheeler]

Yeah, totally. And think about the flip of that, which is one of the things that I've seen over the years is that marketers get so frustrated with developers because, you know, they want to. It's like, oh, one of our competitors is doing this and oh, look how cool that is. And then they say to the developer, could we do something like that? Could we? Or maybe even better. And then the bubbles are, you know, with the time that you're giving me and I've got these other projects on, I can't get it done. Or the frameworks in this monolithic CMS don't allow that.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

So, so with this, when we turn the table, suddenly we're giving developers now way more time not, you know, spending time removing commas and changing headlines.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Right.

[Mark Wheeler]

And really being able to start spending time on doing the cool stuff that is then going to enable the marketer to even step up the game even further.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

So it's a real win win by changing this, this whole paradigm.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah. And you know, you, you mentioned, you know, headless and to be able to publish to multiple types of platforms and channels and everything like that. I mean, in addition to that being able to integrate with a lot of different platforms and you know, customers are expecting a lot more self service and a lot more, you know, functionality at their fingertips, so to speak. API first seems like, you know, it's a, it is, it's a buzzword but it's also, you know, it's, it's real, it's, it's kind of like AI, like AI's hype. But there's, there's reality to it as well. You know, can you talk a little bit about API first And you know, what does it mean in the context of a CMS and why it matters?

[Mark Wheeler]

Yeah. And look, those two stories actually of AI and API are actually intertwined as well. But yeah, maybe I could kick off with a little, little story on that to articulate why it becomes important. Yeah, you know, very. And this is a B2C thing. But recently I wanted to buy myself a new iPad and one of the big department stores in the uk, whom many of us trust, big name sent me an email saying, look, we've got a hundred pounds off this iPad. And I'm like, wow, there's a story 15 minutes from me, I'm going to jump in the car, I'm going to go and pick this thing up, I'm pumped. I'm going to go get this thing. So I got there and went up, went up the stairs, met the, the lady at the, in the in this Apple area. And I said, look, I see you got 100 pound off. This is the model I like. I see that you have one in stock. Yes, please.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

And so she then brings up a her, her own iPad, which is actually, actually accessing their stock system and pricing system says, well, I, I'm sorry, but I don't actually have it at this price. I've got it at 100 pound more, I'm afraid, so I can't give it to you. Hold on. No, no, no, no. Let me show you what it says on my iPhone here. And in addition to that, in the retail environment, you know, I guess many of you have noticed now that often in front of products there's a little screen that provides a point of sale.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

And I said, look, it also says it's 100 pound cheaper here.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Wow.

[Mark Wheeler]

So anyhow, the point, my point being is content consistency is really important in the customer buying experience. And what has happened as we've proliferated screens across the buying experience, the content is also proliferated. Maybe it's been copy and pasted, but essentially it's not been a singular source of content. And so this move to headless and API first has meant that what we've been able to do is essentially bring a singular source of content that can span the differing screens and experiences that customers might have in the buying journey. Now, that's a very B2C context, but also it's very relevant in B2B. Think about what our website is showing and think about the information that our salespeople have in order to engage their customers. So it's consistency. You know, it's not aesthetic, it's really, it's something that's really strategic.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

The other thing that I think really stands out in an API first stack like this is that developers, there's been a whole range of new frameworks and tools that have arrived in the last several years. And of course, you want to enable your developers to use whatever frameworks they prefer to use. Productivity is faster, they can do the cool things that they want to do, and then marketers can control the message and focus on that. So that's the second thing. Then things like personalization, localization, experimentation, all these things become infinitely easier. Yeah, but I, I said I'd connect your AI.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Right, right.

[Mark Wheeler]

With the API look in, in the next two years, there's just a, in fact, it may even happen sooner, who knows? But consumers are moving from the traditional search environment to a, an AI search as a preference. Now it's not become the leader yet, and who can tell how quickly that will happen? But the question is, are your consumers still using Google or are they using ChatGPT to find out?

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

Now if you're going to be relevant in this AI search environment, you need an API first cms, because it's that API First CMS that enables these GPT environments to interrogate your content and to be able to consume it and then be able to restructure it and repurpose it and form it into the answers that people are looking for. So in this next stage of the way consumers are discovering information, discovering content, the game of SEO as it is today is going to change.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

And so if you're not starting to think in terms of an API first approach to your content management, then you run the risk of becoming invisible in this new AI LED content discovery.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, I mean, I see it as, I mean, I try to draw parallels because I think it helps. You know, it was with mobile, right? So it was like it was the year of mobile for like five years in a row. Like, everybody kept saying, it's coming, it's coming, it's coming. And it didn't. And then all of a sudden it did. And you know, all of a sudden when it tipped to, you know, there's more mobile traffic than, than, you know, traditional, you know, laptop desktop traffic or whatever. It was a, it was a very quick change all of a sudden, you know, it took forever and then it, and then it didn't. Right. So I mean, it feels kind of that way. I mean, I see, you know, just with the, the customers that I work with and, and what I'm seeing is like, it's, it's, it's upticking. You know, it feels like it's taking forever.

[Mark Wheeler]

But I don't know about you, but I'm definitely at tipping point between when do I use Google or when do I use Copilot or when do I use Chat GPT?

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

I'm guessing my own behavior is probably about 50, 50 now.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah, I know. And it's, it's funny how it, that it kind of creeps up on you, but it just, it becomes, and then it becomes a habit. Right? And then that's how it happens with, with everybody. Want to learn more and join the discussion About Marketing and AI? Attend the premier conference dedicated to marketing and AI. That's Meacon, the Marketing Artificial Intelligence Conference. From October 14 through 16 in Cleveland, Ohio. MEACON brings together the brightest minds and leading Voices in AI. Don't miss this opportunity to connect with a dynamic community of experts, visionaries and enthusiasts. The Agile brand is proud to be the lead media sponsor of this important event. Register today@MarketingAI Institute.com that's MarketingAI Institute.com and use the code AGILE150 for $150 off your registration fee. I can't wait to see you there. One other thing I want to talk about. You know, we've, we've focused a lot on the, the technical and, and the, even, even a little bit on the process part of this. I want to talk about the, the creativity part of this too is just, you know, it's when marketers are able to get what they need more quickly, when they're able to rely on data to make decisions and make those decisions more quickly. What kind of, you know, creativity does that unlock? And, you know, and freedom to, to, to, to do things that may have otherwise been, oh, that's going to take too long to do or things, you know, how, how should, should marketers be thinking about creativity as well?

[Mark Wheeler]

Yeah, look, I, I think when you start to have this type of data and with these types of tools, then your ability to start tuning your message to your Persona, starting to tune your message to where a buyer is in their journey, then suddenly creativity, I think, can take you to a whole bunch of new places. I'll give you an example. Actually, this is one my own team is working on right now, which is quite exciting. We've built a propensity model for accounts that are well suited to a storyblock purchase. We've mapped them against intent data, and from that we've reshaped our entire nurture process. And so that essentially when we're nurturing our customers, looking at them by Persona type, but we're also looking at an intent score and starting to adjust our messages accordingly. So if, for example, Greg is, you know, we've determined Greg's an ideal customer for us.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Right.

[Mark Wheeler]

But we've noticed he's actually not been very active on the topic of trying to understand the latest in CMS technology. Then the message will be, hey, Greg, you know, I noticed that you haven't been looking at this technology, but there's a lot going on out there in the world and it's probably perhaps time for you to think about it. Here's why. Versus if you had a very high score, then the message is, hey Greg, look, I see, I see your, your maybe some things is going afoot.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

With your organization in terms of making a Change, don't make a change, and could tell you spent some time listening to what StoryBlock could do to potentially help you.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

So as we start to capitalize on the data that's available to us, I think we have tremendous potential to really start tuning in contextually more effectively to our buyers. So it's partly about personalization, but I'm a big believer also in contextualization and being there with the right content, the right conversation at the right time. And that's a big focus, one of the big focus projects in my team right now.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Nice. Nice. Yeah. Because I mean, it can be technically the right message, but if it hits you at the wrong time, if it's too early, too late, or just whatever, then it's technically personalized, but it's not the right message. Right.

[Mark Wheeler]

Yeah. I see so many issues with personalization as it is today. Dominic, the CEO of StoryBlock, he has a great line, which is personalization has been purchased by 8% and used by 0%. And the reason being is so many personalization projects have really failed to get off the ground because of the way they're applying data with the message.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

And a personal example of mine was back at Christmas, I bought my wife a dress for, for a Christmas present. I thought that was going to win me some brownie points. Now the interesting thing is that brand has continued to market me dresses. It's a fail. And they, they didn't really understand the context of the, the purchase or really look to understand what I was trying to, trying to buy. The actual real understanding of me as a consumer was predicated on a singular data point. And that's a typical example of what's leading to a lot of personalization fails today.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, as we wrap up here, just a couple things for you. I want to kind of tie it all together. I mean, throughout, you've mentioned some of the things related to things like roi. I mean, certainly execs are being tied to that. But I want to maybe ask two questions, and one here is, you know, how do we tie all this together for, you know, to make the right investment decisions? You know, it sounds like there's, there's a lot of compelling reasons to, to go with, with composable and all this. And, you know, where, where should leaders be looking ahead in the next couple of years for the future of cms?

[Mark Wheeler]

Yeah, look, I think it is a difficult, it is a difficult conversation to have because, partly because many organizations have had their current CMS for maybe five, maybe seven years. And so making A transition from one technology to another probably is too big a bite in one singular step. So a lot of what I'm seeing is that many organizations who are on these monolithic legacy CMSs are looking at particular projects. Maybe it's a new product launch, a new campaign launch, maybe a new entry into a market. And what they're doing is they're adding a modern headless CMS in addition to their existing.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Okay.

[Mark Wheeler]

And so this particular, what they're finding then is that project has been able to move more quickly and the positivity that tends to come from that and the confidence that comes from that initial project then stems into okay, we'll do the next thing, the next launch. But maybe at the same time what we can also do is transition or retire some legacy content on existing system or modernize it and bring it over.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

So most organizations aren't just saying oh well let's switch off the old system and move. Doesn't happen. We've got, it's, it's like saying we're going to move from one ERP to another. Right. It's, you know, it's too big a deal.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Right, right.

[Mark Wheeler]

So, so it gentle steps, pick, pick the projects that are most critical to, to drive your roi. New campaigns, new product launches, things of that nature. Move to a modern headless CMS and then over time then build a plan over perhaps maybe 18 months to then transition the legacy content onto the new system. It's a good opportunity. It's a bit like moving house, you know, to retire maybe some older content or maybe even refresh and renew. A lot of organizations often find some of their highest performing content dates back to 2018 and maybe it's a time to revisit it.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah. You know, at some point. Right, right. Nice, nice. Well, hey, thanks so much for joining the show. Mark, one last question for you. I like to everybody what do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?

[Mark Wheeler]

Oh, good question. Look, I, I, one of the things that I find, I, I'm, I'm a big proponent of technology in, in marketing and one of the things I think I've especially enjoyed through my career is spending a lot of time with people who are on the cutting edge of those technologies but doing so in a very pragmatic way. I always think about what are the bets that have long term potential.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mark Wheeler]

Because I think in Martech there's a gazillion technologies arriving on a weekly basis and the problem is, is actually sifting through the ones that really can give your team potential over the years ahead, not the months. And also think about it carefully. Marketing departments, I think we sometimes have a reputation now for buying a lot of tools, some of which end up sitting on the shelf. So I think it's one that is very important to place your bets very carefully.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Yeah. Love it. Well, again, I'd like to thank Mark Wheeler, Chief Marketing Officer at Storyblock for joining the show. You can learn more about Mark and Storyblock by following the links in the show Notes. Thanks again for listening to the Agile Brand brought to you by Tech Systems. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show as well. You can access more episodes of the [e-mail] that's theagile brand.com and contact me. If you're interested in consulting or advisory services or are looking for a speaker for your next event, go to www.crow greggkillstrom.com that's G R E G K I H L S t r o m.com the Agile brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively fueled production co op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and stay agile. The Agile Brand Ever heard of Farm to table? How about Farm to Home? That's how Costa Farms plant business works with over 1500 plant varieties grown over 5200 acres. They're not just a company, they're your plant partners who've been perfecting their craft for 60 years. They deliver beautiful, high quality and easy to care for plants. They even offer virtual plant consultations and an insider club for rare plant access. Check out www.costafarms.com today and enter code worthknowing costafarms15 for a 15% discount on your first purchase. You can also purchase this unique plant brand at Lowe's, Walmart, Amazon and Home depot. Go to www.costacostafarms.com today. Attention Scrum Masters and Agile enthusiasts. Are you ready to level up your skills and connect with the best in the industry? The online Scrum Master Summit is your chance to hear from world class Agile experts, gain real world insights and explore the latest trends shaping the future of Agile. Best of all, it's 100% free and completely online. Happening from June 17 through 19, this event brings together thousands of like minded professionals for engaging talks, interactive sessions and hands on workshops. Don't miss this opportunity to sharpen your skills and expand your network. Sign up [e-mail] that's online scrummastersummit.com.