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The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX
#693: Optimizing the post-click customer experience with Riikka Söderlund, Katana Cloud Inventory
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- [00:01]
Strayer University Announcer
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- [00:31]
Carvana Customer
I sold my car in Carvana last night.
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Rika Soderland
Well, that's cool.
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Carvana Customer
No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer down to the penny. They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong.
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Rika Soderland
So what's the problem?
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Carvana Customer
That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes as smoothly. I'm waiting for the catch.
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Rika Soderland
Maybe there's no catch.
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Carvana Customer
That's exactly what a catch would want me to think.
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Rika Soderland
Wow. You need to relax.
- [00:50]
Carvana Customer
I need to knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this table wood?
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Rika Soderland
I think it's laminate.
- [00:53]
Carvana Customer
Okay. Yeah, that's good. That's close enough.
- [00:55]
Rika Soderland
Car Selling without a Catch Sell your car today on Carvana.
- [00:59]
Strayer University Announcer
Pick up fees.
- [01:00]
Rika Soderland
May apply Foreign.
- [01:13]
Greg Kilstrom
Welcome to Season seven of the Agile Brand where we discuss the trends and topics marketing leaders need to know. Stay curious, stay agile and join the top enterprise brands and Martech platforms as we explore marketing technology, AI, e commerce and whatever's next for the Omnichannel customer experience. Together we'll discover what it takes to create an agile brand built for today and tomorrow and built for customers, employees and continued business growth. I'm your host Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, AI and marketing operations. The Agile Brand Podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, an industry leader in full stack technology services, talent services and real world application. For more information go to teksystems.com to make sure you always get the latest episodes, please hit subscribe on the app you listen to podcasts on and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. And now onto the show. What if your biggest customer experience problem isn't your marketing, but your inventory spreadsheet? In the era of one click checkouts, prime delivery expectations and endless online channels, brands are pouring millions into customer acquisition only to lose customers post purchase. Why? Because they can't deliver what they just sold. Today's guest says the future of E commerce success doesn't lie in a flashier storefront or a new influencer strategy. It lies in mastering the messy, invisible world of inventory. I'm excited to welcome back Rika Soderland, now chief operating officer at Katana Cloud Inventory. Rika, welcome back to the show.
- [02:49]
Rika Soderland
Thank you, Craig. Good to be back.
- [02:51]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Love, love to have returning guests here. So, and yeah, loved our discussion last time. So for those that did miss that, it would be great if you, you know, introduce yourself and your role at Katana.
- [03:05]
Rika Soderland
Of course. I've actually moved a little bit further from just the pure realm of marketing since we last spoke, which is something that I think a lot of marketers are actually doing right now. So I'm now also overseeing data and analytics, revenue operations, kind of the broader scope of how does a brand actually acquire customers and develop a customer experience? For us at Katana, that means that how do we actually service our 1500 SMB customers who are trying to tackle their inventory challenges in a very complex environment like you just described?
- [03:42]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you know, I think it does, it may get, it doesn't get overlooked by everyone, but you know, I think it gets overlooked at some within organizations as such a critical part. So let's talk about that. We'll talk about a few things today, but I want to talk about inventory and inventory management as a customer experience differentiator. And so you've described it as a silent but critical force behind customer experience. Why are so many brands overlooking this connection between logistics and customer loyalty?
- [04:14]
Rika Soderland
I've been thinking a lot about that because I have to confess that I mean, my own background is in FMCG and that more retail side of marketing. I never really gave any thought to inventory back then either. But I think things have been changing really rapidly in the past 10 years, past five years, and also in the past 12 months. And the role of inventory keeps getting more and more crucial as the speed with which customers expect service and delivery gets higher and higher. So it isn't enough that you have stuff in your warehouse anymore. You need to know exactly what you have. Where is it? When are you able to deliver to keep customers demanding customers happy? Also in 2025.
- [05:03]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, because I mean, so much on the customer acquisition side is focused on this frictionless customer experience. We want the one click buy, we want the all of that. But what does this look like? What is real customer frictionless customer experience when inventory management is done well, yeah, exactly.
- [05:26]
Rika Soderland
I feel like a lot of people settle for we know what's in stock and we know what's out of stock. But it is not a frictionless customer experience. If your website says out of stock or if it says we'll be back in stock in six weeks. Six to 12 weeks. When is it then backing said? Do you think your consumer will stay and wait and not go to a competitor? Come on, it's 2025. There are endless options. So it really is that availability, that's what frictionless means. Constant availability and streamlined information sharing with the customer so that they know exactly what to expect, when to expect it, and preferably so that you can actually beat your competition in your speed of delivery.
- [06:15]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah. I mean that is, that is such a critical point because you know, and you've worked with a lot of fast growing companies and you know that it's, it's challenging enough. Right. As a marketer also, you know, it's challenging enough to get awareness out there and interest in a product and differentiation, you know, all of those like marketing things. But then to your point, they click the button and it's out of stock.
- [06:40]
Rika Soderland
Yeah.
- [06:41]
Greg Kilstrom
They're going somewhere else. Right. So how do you, you know, from an operational complexity standpoint, you know, what's the, like, what's the biggest inflection point when inventory complexity starts to overwhelm a small team at one of those, you know, fast growing brands?
- [06:58]
Rika Soderland
That's a good question. I think the key word there in your question is complexity. Like that. The point is when complexity becomes too much for one person or you know, one spreadsheet to handle. So it can come as you are expanding from your, if you're just selling in your Shopify store now you're adding in Amazon. Well, how do you know if you've sold something on Amazon, if it's still available on Amazon? How do you keep that in track? Or if you're opening a second location or if you're hiring more people who need to have access to that data simultaneously. If you have another sales team, the West Coast, I mean, the added complexity that can come in many shapes or forms. I think right now on top of mind for many brands is where are they sourcing their goods? Do they come overseas? Are they transferring manufacturing? Can they get all their raw materials that they used to get from one place? Maybe now it's multiple places. So those complexities can vary from brand to brand. But it's always, it's that complexity. When that starts to add up, it adds up exponentially.
- [08:06]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, well, and another, another component which we touched on a little bit there is, you know, as, as a brand has grown, there's, there's these competing forces. Right. You know, so the, the sales and marketing folks are going to want channel expansion you know, they want the broadest possible, you know, entry point, set of entry points for, for customers. Right. And yes, that, to what you were just saying, ads complexity and potentially those, you know, out of stock messages and things like that. So, you know, how do you, how do you recommend that brands manage inventory when selling across, you know, Shopify, Etsy, Amazon, even in store? You know, how should they be thinking about this?
- [08:49]
Rika Soderland
Yeah, I mean it adds complexity, but it doesn't have to add complexity to the process of the employees. Mean it's not rocket science that you can have your inventory data on the cloud and in a software platform that is able to serve it in real time to all different stakeholders that need it, whether they're in house or outsourced. So I think the key point is really to start to think what does that enable you? It's a growth enabler that you are actually then able to sell in multiple touch points. And obviously if you come from the traditional inventory management world of ERPs, then that would mean that, oh my God, an ERP implementation project, tens of thousands and months and months and then that kills your growth. But that's not the case anymore. I mean, oh my God. Technology has advanced the cloud, technology has advanced and AI has made incredible advancements. So it is possible to reduce that complexity or manage that complexity and keep growing.
- [10:01]
Greg Kilstrom
I do want to talk about the role of AI and certainly, you know, I think a lot of what you're, you're touching on as far as simplifying things stems from what Katana is able to do as well. But you know, one, one of those things is Katana is integrating AI into its platform. So can you talk about, you know, how, how is AI being used from, you know, everything from prediction to optimizing stock levels, things like that?
- [10:25]
Rika Soderland
Yeah, no, I, I'd love to think the possibilities that AI can do in inventory management are absolutely endless. And we've only just gotten started. I think there's a little bit of hesitation for brands to actually allow AI to give them recommendation or trust that automation, which is understandable. I mean, we're hesitant to get on a self driving car. It takes a little bit of time to understand what technology is able to do for you. So it's actually like there's so much already that AI could do, but it's actually more a question of how far do we want to push it so that we are still allowing brands to hold the reins, which is the case for example, with Katana. When it comes to things like forecasting or planning, it is actually possible, of course to automate that whole cycle of dentist replenishments and all. But it seems that brands are more comfortable with getting recommendations and still being the ones then pushing the button and again, kind of especially now making the determination of where am I going to source those goods? Because right now things are even trickier with the trade war situation.
- [11:43]
Greg Kilstrom
Right, right. Yeah. And so, you know, to kind of, to dive into that a little bit more on the, on the, on the balance side. So, you know, I, I think the self driving car analogy is a good one because technically, yes, they exist. You know, I rode in one many years ago and you know, even though there was someone like sitting there just in case, you know, it, it navigated fine. But you know, there's been, I think there's a lot of trepidation and for, for good reason to just completely hand the steering wheel over, to use that metaphor. And yet AI is advancing and the tools are getting better. So how do you maybe as of today, how should leaders be looking at this balance and probably planning for a future where there's maybe a little bit of more AI than now? How should leaders be thinking now?
- [12:37]
Rika Soderland
Yeah, I think it's really crucial that brands start to prepare now, even if they aren't planning to fully automate their entire supply chain. And anytime soon, just having that ability to do so when that customer or consumer expectation comes, if you then start to plan, well, how am I going to move my operation to an AI ready environment? You're going to be way too late. Because it all starts with having your data in the cloud and having the kind of data that AI can utilize so that you can actually then enable, for example, AI agents to utilize your data set. If your inventory information is on a spreadsheet on your computer and your computer is underneath the CEO's table somewhere, like there's absolutely nothing that AI can do for you and it will be a pain to start to move that data to the cloud and you will not have historical data.
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Greg Kilstrom
Right.
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Rika Soderland
So just being prepared, it doesn't cost you much, but it does future proof your business.
- [13:46]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah. And so I want to go back to an earlier point that you were talking through is just, you know, it seems, and I see this too is, you know, brands are starting to pay a little more attention to what you've referred to as the experience after the click. So, you know, you buy again. The marketers are happy because they made the sale or whatever, but you know, the customer is not happy until they receive the thing they ordered in the way they want it and as quickly as they want, you know, all, all of those, those other expectations. How are you seeing, you know, are, are. It sounds like you're seeing that, that more of a focus is being put on that, that, you know, after the click experience, how would you recommend leaders think about, you know, a smart inventory strategy being part of the, you know, there's, there's other things like email communications and all those things that again, some may gravitate towards as part of the experience. But like how does inventory strategy really fit into this post purchase journey?
- [14:44]
Rika Soderland
Yeah, it again starts with having that data available for your marketing team, for your marketing automation. Whether you want to send email or SMS notifications, just whichever way you want to inform your customer about the status of their order. Then all the data just have to be in real time and available in cloud. I think that's almost table stakes at this point. That is what the consumer expects. So I think brands will put a lot more focus this year and next in what happens then if the customer isn't happy and wants to return their purchase, how do you help facilitate that process? Because that in many cases is still incredibly hard. And even if you manage to do it, then you have inventory coming back. How do you make sure that you are able to resell it? Or even if you aren't, you start to identify why was it returned? Who are the customers who are making those returns? What is the core reason they're making those returns? What is it costing me? What is it doing for the overall cost of goods so that I can ensure I'm running a profitable business which will be more crucial than ever for SMB's this year. So I think that piece of it, the actual business intelligence of what lies underneath that customer experience is going to be the focus area for SMBs this year.
- [16:11]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, and that's where I mean, I think the reverse logistics. Is that the, is that the right term? Okay, I learned that term the other day, so I'm still learning. But I mean that's a huge one where you know, the Amazons of the world and you know, Alibaba's and all those, like they figured this stuff out, they have the resources and the depth and breadth to do that. But to your point, the small and medium businesses that are competing with those, not even the largest of players, but the large players, even inventory in the first place is one thing, but then the reverse logistics as well. So is AI how some of this playing field gets leveled, then I think
- [16:53]
Rika Soderland
AI will play a big role in it. Especially I think in the early stages, it will help brands understand the customer experience better, analyze it as well as facilitate it. Because imagine if someone is deciding to do a return, then they are already disappointed in their experience. So you actually have to work twice as hard to now make up for that less than great brand experience. So just enabling the return probably isn't enough. But with AI, you can of course make it a much, much more personalized experience, which is a good first step to start to reclaim the confidence of that consumer.
- [17:38]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah, makes sense. So I know we've talked about a few forward facing things here, but you know, what's, you know, what's the biggest shift that you see on the horizon for brands that, you know, they want to be agile, they want to be customer focused, you know, especially as all these things we've talked about. We didn't talk a lot about social commerce, but you know, that's certainly a big force as well. You know, what, what are some, you know, what's the biggest shift that you're seeing that leaders should pay attention to?
- [18:05]
Rika Soderland
Yeah, I do think that it is time to put again, more focus on customer experience. I think it was a buzzword five years ago. Then a lot of different things have happened. It's kind of been on the background. But reason that gets incredibly important again is that as AI and automation advances, it becomes technically possible to remove the brand from between the consumer and the manufacturer. Like the brand actually needs to fight for its position and the added value it brings to that supply chain when we are facilitating faster and faster and easier supply chains with technology. The amount of technology and power a consumer has in their hands when they're holding their iPhone would enable all kinds of different supply chains already. So brands really need to think about what kind of added value are they bringing to the process because just the product they're selling most likely won't be it in five years.
- [19:15]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah, great, great point. Well, Rika, thanks so much for joining today. One last question for you. I ask everybody here, what do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?
- [19:29]
Rika Soderland
Oh my gosh. You know, I used to just read a lot of books, listen to a lot of podcasts, and just kind of constantly update that way. What I've been finding the past, let's say like three to six months though, is I am reading brand or technology providers newsletters again. When was the last time you read the Shopify product updates newsletter or the HubSpot product updates letter? The amount of spam in my email box. Insane. So I usually just skim over those. But the speed with which AI is developing and these brands are using it to improve their product and their customer experience, I'm finding that actually that granular level of, well, what is HubSpot doing this week? That is actually helping me to understand what's happening in the bigger picture as well. Even when I'm just looking at this kind of niche area of it.
- [20:24]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah, yeah, nice, nice. That's great. Well, again, I'd like to thank Rika Sotolund, Chief Operating Officer at Katana Cloud Inventory, for joining the show. You can learn more about Rika and Katana Cloud Inventory by following the links in the show notes thanks again for listening to the Agile Brand brought to you by Tech Systems. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show as well. You can access more episodes of the show@theagilebrand.com that's theagile brand.com and contact me. If you're interested in consulting or advisory services or are looking for a speaker for your next event, go to www.greg kilstrom.com that's G R E G K I H L S t r o m.com the Agile brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively fueled production co op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and stay agile.
- [21:34]
Rika Soderland
The agile brand.
- [21:41]
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