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The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX
#694: What's your plan for Q5 this year, with Xavier de Baillenx from Ramdam
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- [00:01]
Podcast Intro/Outro Announcer
The agile brand.
- [00:10]
Greg Kilstrom
Welcome to Season seven of the Agile Brand where we discuss the trends and topics marketing leaders need to know. Stay curious, stay agile and join the top enterprise brands and martech platforms as we explore marketing, technology, AI, e commerce, and whatever's next for the omnichannel customer experience. Together we'll discover what it takes to create an agile brand built for today and tomorrow and built for customers, employees and continued business growth. I'm your host Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, AI and marketing operations. The Agile Brand podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, an industry leader in full stack technology services, talent services and real world application. For more information, go to teksystems.com to make sure you always get the latest episodes, please hit subscribe on the app you listen to podcasts on and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. And now onto the show. What if your most profitable campaign window isn't Black Friday or Cyber Monday, but after the holidays when everyone else is quiet? While most marketers are winding down, savvy brands are doubling down, tapping into the
- [01:21]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Q5 period between Christmas and early January when ad prices drop, engagement spikes, and consumers are laser focused on their New Year goals. Today we're digging into how AI is revolutionizing brand partnerships, why micro influencers might be your secret Q5 weapon, and what smart marketers are doing to turn a slow season into a sales surge.
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Greg Kilstrom
To discuss this, I'd like to welcome
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
Xavier Debiance, CEO of Ramdom, an AI powered creator platform working with over 50,000 influencers globally.
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Greg Kilstrom
Xavier, welcome to the show.
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Xavier Debiance
Yeah, thank you Greg. Happy to be here.
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah, looking forward to talking about this with you. Before we dive into the topic though, why don't you start by telling us a little bit about your background and your current role at ramdom.
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Xavier Debiance
Sure. So I'm Xavier, the CEO and co founder of ramdom. Ramdam is an AI powered platform that helps any brand to scale their advertising with authentic high performing creator content, especially through micro influencers. So we work with over 50k creators worldwide and what makes our model completely unique is AI handles everything, matching with the right creators, generating the brief, reviewing the content and clients get dozens, even hundreds of creator made ads delivered seamlessly without managing creators themselves. So before ramdom I actually I'm an engineer but I worked in the music industry at Universal and then moved into tech and me and my co founder, our previous startup was acquired by the Match Group, global leader in online dating services and we launched ramdom two and a Half years ago and we are scaling fast. We recently closed the seed round to keep. To keep scaling.
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
Nice, nice. That's great. Well, yeah, so let's dive in here and first I want to talk about. Maybe some audience members out there aren't familiar with the term Q5. It would make sense that there's only four quarters in the year. But this Q5 concept is pretty interesting. I want to talk about this. So most marketers think of the holidays as kind of wrapping up in December, but you're saying the real opportunity starts after Christmas. So, you know, what is Q5 and why should marketers care so much?
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Xavier Debiance
Yeah, absolutely. So Q5 starts right after Christmas, like December 26th, and it stretches into like early to mid January. It's actually an overlooked but incredibly powerful window for marketers for two reasons. Number one reason is ad cost dropped dramatically. You know, during Q4. Like you have all the advertisers competing. CPMs are sky high. And starting December 26th, most advertisers, they just post a campaign. So it's programmed, they post the campaigns and it means CPM suddenly collapse and you can actually acquire a user for half the price of just a few days earlier. So that's great for that. And the other reason is consumer intent is very high. So after Christmas, actually you're pretty done with gift shopping. Right. So you'll start focusing on self improvement like fitness, finance, wellness, dating, education, new goals. So if your brand speak to these ambitions, Q5 is definitely your moment. So yeah, it's a very interesting period where instead of winding down, all the smart marketers lean in actually.
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, it's. I know this show's airing, you know, mid summer here, but you know, as we all know, you know, marketers are planning for holiday shopping from, you know, from the start of the year on. So, you know, planning certainly for Q5. Certainly. It's not too early to do that as well.
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Xavier Debiance
Absolutely.
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
One of the things that, as you mentioned that ramdom does is working with influencers. And you've worked with over 50,000 of them. What have you seen in terms of ROI when it comes to micro influencers, especially in this Q5 period?
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Xavier Debiance
Yeah, so yeah, Q5, as I told you, is all about relevance, trust. So it's period when people are focused on themselves, their goal, their new habits, and so authenticity becomes even more important. So that's exactly where micro influencers shine, actually. So at random, we actually discovered two things because we are producing thousands and thousands of video every month to drive performance on TikTok or Meta. On social media ads, you need volume number one and authenticity number two. So if we start with volume, with the TikTokization of social media, you never know which creative is going to be successful. Let me give you an example. We have this Canadian TikToker whose video reached 50 million views in the US helping an app reaching top 10 in 15 countries. And so we tried to replicate with the same format, same hook, same music, same creator. It completely failed. Right. So success isn't about repeating formulas. Success is about statistics. You have to play with the odds. And so to secure top performing ads, you need volume. That's number one. And then comes authenticity. So everyone now on the social media, they go from one content to another and they have developed what we call a scroll immunity. What does that mean? It means that whenever our content looks a little bit like an ad, a little bit too scripted or over polished, they instantly skipped. They skipped right away. And micro influencers can break that pattern. Actually. They feel relatable, they feel genuine, and they speak to real niches. Actually, I don't know if you know that statistic, but micro influencers drive 60% higher engagement than big influencers or branded content. Not because of the massive reach, but because people trust them and because their content doesn't really feel like an ad. So in one word, authenticity. And that's exactly what performed best during the whole year and especially during Q5.
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah, yeah. So I want to talk then about, you know, so we talking about authenticity now. Let's talk about AI and AI driven. And so, you know, some listening may be curious how, you know, AI can drive greater, greater authenticity as well. But, you know, so let's talk a little bit about that. You know, how is AI changing the way that brands approach influencer partnerships? And what makes these new strategies more effective than traditional campaign planning?
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Xavier Debiance
Yeah, so it changes, it changes everything. So I just told you that to be successful you need volume and authenticity, Right? Yeah. There is absolutely no way to scale creator campaigns. And to get this authenticity at scale without AI doing it manually is impossible. You've got like millions of micro influencers out there, right? Finding the right ones who align with your brand, your goals, with your budget, with your timing also is nearly impossible without AI. So this is what we do at ramdom, for example, we will analyze each creator's profile, their videos, their hashtags. We will make a score element with a brief and we'll send the offer only to creators that are the most relevant for you, for the brand. And obviously you Cannot do that. With sending email, you need to have the AI that do that automatically. But then comes also the brief generation. So when you do a brief, you need to actually align your value as a brand with current viral dynamics. What trends, what are the next hooks that are working? Okay, it changes every day and only the AI can actually monitor every 10 globally. Human cannot do that. Also when you have to review the contents, AI now can review frame by frame all the video and make sure it's aligned with the brief in tone, in compliance, in messaging, and in many cases, let me tell you, it's much more consistent than human reviewers. So for all this reason, AI can actually help you sort this Q and Q problem quality and quantity with as a result authenticity at scale, meaning lower cpm, lower acquisition costs and better ROI every time. So AI really changes everything?
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah, I mean it definitely seems, I mean to your point about, you know, you can't have absolute certainty that one specific thing is going to be successful. So you've got to have scale. And you know, I can imagine, you know, even if you're a large brand, doing all of this at scale can be difficult and you know, finding, matching, researching, all that kind of stuff, let alone if you're a smaller, you know, even a mid sized organization, you probably just, you don't have the team to do that at scale. And yet you've got to have volume to figure out what works. Right?
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Xavier Debiance
Exactly, exactly.
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
So another thing, you know, another aspect of this is the concept of mobile first campaigns and Q5 as you mentioned, there's a lot of, you know, there's the New Year's resolutions, there's a lot of that, that's kind of introspection or self goals and things like that. As consumers lean into something like New Year's resolutions, what are the most successful tactics that you've seen for mobile engagement and how can brands authentically connect with these intentions?
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Xavier Debiance
Yeah, let me share two tactics actually, if you don't mind.
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah, yeah.
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Xavier Debiance
The first one would be like, I call it trend hijacking. I mean you're probably familiar on TikTok or even Meta, what we call trends, which would be like memes, popular sounds, challenges, that kind of stuff that lasts for a few weeks, are super popular. And actually we found out that letting creators plug your brand into the trend, like trying to catch the essence of your value proposition in sometimes 5, 5 seconds max. Actually it's fast, cheap and it often outperform scripted content, especially when it's done at scale. So you should definitely find the right Trends that match with your brand and ask for a lot of creators to plug your brand into that trend. A super successful tactic. Another tactic would be the slideshow or carousel. Not everything has to be a video, you know, actually creators can make native photo slideshow on TikTok for example, but also on meta everywhere. And it actually also can outperform video in a lot of formats on mobile, especially for more emotional or instructional content. So you should definitely try trend jacking slideshow. But the bottom line is basically the recipe for success is diversity content, diversity of creators, diversity of message, diversity of formats. If you can scale that diversity, you win.
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah, for sure. Love it. So talking more about activating creators, and as you mentioned, a lot of brands are working with multiple micro influencers. What advice would you give to marketers looking to activate creative creators during Q5? You know, what are some of the maybe mistakes to avoid? And you know, what is a great Q5 creator brief look like?
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Xavier Debiance
So the biggest mistake I would say would be choosing creators by follower count, follower account. Because that metric, the number of followers, doesn't mean much anymore. We call that the TikTokization of social media with meta reels, YouTube shorts, where all these platforms are becoming entertainment platforms. Actually not so much social media. And what happens is views come from quality, not anymore from audience size. So for example, I've seen creators with 5 million followers on TikTok get 200 views and vice versa, right? So do not look really at the follower count. Look at the content and make sure that the content match with your needs, with your values. That's much more important than the follower count. Another mistake that a lot of advertisers do when they start is testing too few creators. So they spend time trying to find like the perfect creators and just testing the waters with maybe four or five creative content. It almost never works. It's like gambling, right? You need at least 20 creatives, at least 20 creatives for a campaign to find a top performer, ideally between 50 and 80.
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
Wow.
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Xavier Debiance
And so you talk about brief and you're absolutely right. Like brief is a cornerstone of successful campaign. Like good brief, good creatives, bad brief, bad creatives. It's as simple as that. And when it come into briefs, my advice would be first be clear about the do's and don'ts. Like if you want the creators to show their face or if you don't want them, for example, to mention competitors, be super clear about that. On the other hand, creators, especially younger creators, they don't like to read anymore. They like video. But they don't like to read anymore. So keep it concise, keep it brief because creators won't read essays. And last but definitely not the list. The list, sorry. Leave room for creativity, like try to ditch the scripts because some of the best performing might come up with something great that you hadn't thought of and that could actually lead to a top performing ad at random. Actually, we iterated our briefing system for years and years and years to make sure we find the right balance. And once you find the right balance, you considerably increase your chances of success.
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah, I mean I would imagine to the point about the script, if it's highly scripted, that also may impact authenticity. Right, so it's.
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Xavier Debiance
Yeah, absolutely.
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah. So you know, as, as we've mentioned a couple times here, you know, you've worked with a lot of campaigns, worked with over 50,000 creators out there, working with so many campaigns globally, I imagine you've uncovered some, you know, maybe surprising insights. You know, what's something that might surprise our listeners about influencer marketing, mobile engagement or Q5? All the above.
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Xavier Debiance
Yeah, actually I have one, one that actually really surprised us. So to give you a bit of context, most of our clients, they have the same pattern. They start in the US with US creators and then eventually they would expand globally if their product is a huge success. Right. So when you need to expand globally in Europe, in Latin America, wherever the assumption would be. Okay, I need new localized creatives for each region. So I would need Brazilian creators for Brazil, French creator for French, et cetera, et cetera. Actually we found out that top performing from US creators often work globally, even in non English speaking countries, which was quite surprising. I mean it's understandable. TikTok audience or meta audience or YouTube audience are used to US content. So as long as the message is clear, it can perform actually incredibly well across borders. So as a marketer, don't be afraid to recycle high performing US ads internationally. I'd been on social media, you wouldn't have that on TV obviously, but on social media it's completely okay. It will save you time, money and often drive results.
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
Great, great. So, you know, as I said, you know, as, as we're halfway through the year here, a lot of marketers, a lot of, a lot of brand people are already looking to the holiday season for, you know, 20, 25, 26. What do you think will define the next wave of influencer campaigns? And you know, is how will AI continue to evolve its role?
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Xavier Debiance
Yeah, so I won't surprise you Greg, but for me the Next wave of influencer campaigns will definitely be led by micro influencers. So yeah, we're entering a world with like 300 micro influencers and they are not like it's not their main job. Like they are active on social media as a side activity. They're speaking to their niche, their values, their routines. And this is actually exactly what consumers connect with again, authenticity. And so as the number of creator grows, so does the complexity. More volume, more data and money for quality control and brand alignment. And this is where, as I told AI will kicks in, will play a crucial role and not by replacing creator. Because you can see a lot of what we call AI UGC done by AI avatar. It doesn't lead to top performing creatives like almost never because you need to have the real people with real imperfections and genuine story to have top performing. But AI will be a creative enabler, helping brands find the right voices faster, validate content at scale, maybe helping creators to edit, to find new ideas and surface what truly performs. But really the magic will still come from real people because this is what resonates. And I think the future of influence really will be through those micro influencers with AI making sure that you can scale easily.
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
Yeah, to me that's a nice mix of AIs. The machines are doing what they do well, which is helping with scale, speed, efficiency, all that. And humans are doing what humans do well, which is the strategy and the creative part of it. Right? Yeah.
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Xavier Debiance
You wouldn't see an AI avatar explaining how a cream is so good for their skin. It doesn't make any sense when you think about it.
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
Right, exactly, exactly. Well, thanks so much for joining today. One last question before we wrap up here. I'd like to ask this to everybody. What do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?
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Xavier Debiance
All right, so you know Greg, when you work in ad tech, like staying agile isn't an option. You know, one day TikTok is banned in the US, the next day it's back. So you either adapt fast or you completely fall behind. So basically to stay consistently agile, it's not really, it's not about me, just about me. I'm the CEO, so I'm agile. That's my job. It's really about the whole team. And actually everyone in our team, from project to CSM to devs, has to embrace this mindset. So that's something actually I test right away when hiring. Can this person work in a super agile, fast moving environment? If I'm not 100% sure that's a no go. So this is a way I make sure we are agile. Having an agile team.
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Podcast Host/Interviewer
That's great. Love it. Well again, I'd like to thank Xavier De Balance, CEO of Ramdam for joining the show. You can learn more about Xavier and ramdom by following the links in the show. Notes
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Greg Kilstrom
thanks again for listening to the Agile Brand brought to you by Tech Systems. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show as well. You can access more episodes of the show@theagilebrand.com that's theagile brand.com and contact me. If you're interested in consulting or advisory services or are looking for speaker for your next event, go to www.gregkilstrom.com that's G R E G K-I H L S T R O M.com the Agile brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively fueled production co. Op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and stay agile.
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Podcast Intro/Outro Announcer
The agile brand.
- [20:14]
Liberty Mutual Advertiser
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- [20:23]
Podcast Host/Interviewer
Hey everyone. Hey everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?
- [20:27]
Liberty Mutual Advertiser
Oh no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Together we're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.
- [20:34]
Xavier Debiance
Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.
- [20:35]
Liberty Mutual Advertiser
Anyways, get a quote@libertymutual.com or with your local agent.
- [20:38]
Xavier Debiance
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- [20:42]
Podcast Intro/Outro Announcer
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