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The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX
#700: Winning and retaining the distracted consumer with Kelsey Chickering, Forrester
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- [00:00]
Greg Kilstrom
What if your customer experience and culture strategy didn't just create value but actually funded your growth? I'm inviting you to join me in a powerful mastermind group I'm co leading with Journey Spark Consulting. It's called the CX and Culture Connection Creating a self funding growth flywheel and it brings together CX and culture leaders who want to drive change, build stronger internal collaboration and actually reinvest efficiency savings into growth driving initiatives. This isn't just theory. You'll get monthly virtual sessions, one on one coaching, quarterly workshops and access to the value Accelerator tools focused on strategy, cultural alignment and voice of customer. Plus you'll connect with leaders across functions from marketing to product to ops who are facing the same challenges and pushing towards the same goals. Up to four team members can participate from your organization so you're building alignment while building momentum. Want in, learn more and sign up at journeysparkconsulting.com that's journeysparkconsulting.com mastermind let's turn your CX investment into a growth engine.
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Kelsey Chickering
The Agile Brand.
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Greg Kilstrom
Welcome to Season seven of the Agile Brand where we discuss the trends and topics marketing leaders need to know. Stay curious, stay agile and join the top enterprise brands and Martech platforms as we explore marketing technology, AI, e commerce, and whatever's next for the Omnichannel customer experience. Together we'll discover what it takes to create an agile brand built for today and tomorrow and built for customers, employees and continued business growth. I'm your host Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, AI and marketing operations today. To make sure you always get the latest episodes, please hit subscribe on the app you listen to podcasts on and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. Now onto the show.
- [02:00]
Unknown Host
If your brand can't hold a consumer's focus for eight seconds, what makes you think you deserve nine? We're here at Forester CX in Nashville, Tennessee and hearing all about the latest insights and ideas for brands to create better experiences for their customers. Agility isn't speed for speed's sake. It's the discipline of staying useful while everything and everyone spins. In an era when consumers swipe away in milliseconds, an agile brand has to win attention before the next notification does. Today we're unpacking how to win and retain the distracted consumer with Kelsey Chickering.
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Greg Kilstrom
Principal Analyst at Forrester.
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Unknown Host
Kelsey, welcome to the show.
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Kelsey Chickering
Thank you. Happy to be here.
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Unknown Host
Yeah. Looking forward to talking about this with you and great job this morning with your keynote.
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Kelsey Chickering
Thank you.
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Unknown Host
Definitely it's always exciting to do these interviews here on site, at events. There's just kind of a different energy. So I want to start actually, before we dive in, why don't you give a little bit on your background and the focus of your work at Forrester?
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Kelsey Chickering
Sure. Like I said, I'm Kelsey. I've been at Forrester for about three years now, but I actually come from an agency background. So I was at creative and media agencies before this as a comms planner. So really connecting creative and media together. So a lot of the work that I do with our clients at Forrester is that helping them sort of have that marketing blueprint in place and really land their jobs to be done as an organization. Outside of that, I also cover social media strategy, the creator economy. I'm actually kicking off a report very soon on how marketers can really take advantage of gaming environments. So a variety of different topics related to media and consumer that I cover.
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Unknown Host
Nice. Nice. Yeah, we'll have to talk about the gaming thing at a later date, but yeah, that's great. So, yeah, let's dive in and we're going to talk about a few things here. But just, I know we're pretty early on in the conference, but, you know, we're here at Forrester cx. What's the most insightful thing that you've heard so far? Or maybe since we're so early on, what are you looking forward to most?
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Kelsey Chickering
Sure, I give you both, actually. So I would say in Dependent talk, he talked just after me about the Total Experience score, which is something that we're revealing here at Forrester today at the conference. And what I think was incredible about that, when I heard about it, was just how much you can grow your brand and actually grow revenue by combining and bringing together your BX and your cx. It's not just lip service where we say you guys should work together. It is proven with data and math that if you do this, you will grow your business. And, you know, I think that's, that's really powerful. And especially, you know, any people who are trying to fight the good fight of bringing these things together, you now have information and data to bring to your leadership team and say, here's why, here's why this matters. You know, we have an opportunity here. So I think that was definitely a great moment and a big moment and I'm quite excited, actually. On the last day of the conference, Angelina is going to be talking about different metrics and nps, which as a marketer is not something that I spend A ton of time thinking about. But I'm excited, I think, for everyone to hear just how she sort of breaks down where those metrics are breaking down for us. And this idea of chasing a metric for the sake of it is, I think, something that many people can relate to, whether you're in a marketing org, a CX org, wherever you are, where you have this North Star that you've sort of lost the path and even why it's the North Star anymore. So I think that's another big insight and exciting talk we're going to hear later in the week.
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Unknown Host
Yeah, yeah, no, that's great. Great insights and yeah, I think the, for the first piece you said, I know a lot of professionals that they do struggle to tie the ROI component of that and there's ways to do it certainly. But I'm definitely excited to hear more about the total experience score and all that. So definitely exciting news today. So I want to talk about one of the things that you talked about this morning, and that's the distracted consumer. Consumers face 35,000 decisions a day, according to some research. And so practically speaking, what is that? Cognitive overload, whatever you want to call it, what does that look like in a typical brand interaction?
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Kelsey Chickering
I think even if you think about your own life and the number of times that you are probably switching devices and multitasking and going from one task to the next, it's not even just what you're thinking about, but then physically, you are met with so many distractions at all times. I shared in the keynote earlier, so many, I think it was 70% or, sorry, 40% in our online community said that they are constantly multitasking, you know, while they're, while they're consuming media. So you think about as a brand, your opportunity, your window to get in their brain is not long. So I think frequency plays a role here too, where you can't necessarily think about it as like, we're going to have this one moment, this one perfect piece of content that's going to land for everybody because first of all, you're going to be lucky whether they. If they even noticed it and you need to have more and more to reinforce it. It's not the same thing. But how are you thinking about all those different channels and places where you can actually meet the consumer, consumer there and even through different people. Like I cover the creator economy. And creators have had a bigger and bigger role in doing this for brands where it's not even just about getting your product in the hands of creators, but it's co creating with them. It's creating product that is more relevant to the people that you're speaking to. So I just think that the way we think about marketing and messaging has to change based on the way that consumers are living their everyday lives.
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Unknown Host
Yeah, yeah. And that's. You know, I know I've read plenty of research on multitasking and how. I mean, it depends on who you ask, but it's not really a thing.
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Kelsey Chickering
Oh, it's not actually possible to multitask.
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Unknown Host
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, they try. We all try.
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Kelsey Chickering
Everyone's trying. Exactly. It's. But.
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Unknown Host
But your brain can only, you know, it's. Our brains are good, but they're not that good.
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Kelsey Chickering
I said this to my husband all the time. He's like, I'm just really good at multitasking. When he's on his phone, he's like, like, you're not. No one is good at multitasking. But we're just constantly divided. Right?
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Unknown Host
Yeah. And some people are better at switching. Like, sure. Speed of switching, but it's still switching. It's not like actually concurrent.
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Kelsey Chickering
Right.
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Unknown Host
Thoughts. Which, you know, that plus the journey itself is not so linear. You know, we're taught like in, in college, like the marketing funnel or whatever. It's. I'm sure they teach it out you places too, but it's like I remember seeing that like back in the day. And it's not linear. You know, it's. It's a nice way to visualize it, but it's so, it can be so disconnected, whether it's devices or channels or just other touch points from what you're seeing brands do. What's it. What's an underused tactic that brands can use to make sense of this chaos, for lack of a better term, without resorting to just some crazy spaghetti, like journey map.
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Kelsey Chickering
Well, I also think that the reality is that we are living in a crazy spaghetti journey, Matt.
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Unknown Host
Right, right.
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Kelsey Chickering
Because consumers are just sort of dropped in to an interaction. You know, like you said, it's not like you can. It's pretty hard to guarantee that they're going to see this message and then that message and then this interaction and then have this interaction with you. But what you can do is make sure that you're planning all of those interactions so that they are consistent with your brand and the customer experience that you want. Which comes back to that. That total experience that we talked about as far as tactics. So I talked about the creator economy earlier, and I think creators are actually a really helpful way to make sense of this in some ways because being able to get your brand message through a different voice and to communities that you might not have other otherwise found or realized were important to you. I think that's really powerful. And especially if you're choosing creators who know you and actually like you and can authentically talk about you, you're opening yourself up to share like who you are in a really different way. And it's not just about here's the things that we say at people, but here's the things we can say through people from their own real experiences. So I think that that's something we're going to continue to see. We're certainly seeing a lot of. And we'll see more and more of. I think we'll see a lot of bad executions.
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Unknown Host
Sure. But I think to that, to that point, the fact that you're a good brand could be executed and realized through a bunch of creators with their own, you know, kind of voice and things speaks to the strength of the brand. Right.
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Kelsey Chickering
Of course. And it requires also a level of letting go.
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Unknown Host
Yeah.
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Kelsey Chickering
Which is really hard for brands. Like in some of our research which I published around best practices for creative marketing, you know, one of the things that we found was one of the biggest pitfalls that brands have is over direction with creators. And they try to micromanage and say, you must say this thing exactly in this way. And of course you have to have parameters in place, like if certain things are not appropriate for your brand, vet this creator properly. But you can't control every message or else what's the point? That is not the point of it. But to go back to your original question about the spaghetti mess, I do think that getting your brand in many different touch points through different voices is one way to break through.
- [11:12]
Greg Kilstrom
Want to learn more and join the discussion About Marketing and AI? Attend a premier conference dedicated to marketing and AI. That's Meacon, the Marketing Artificial Intelligence Conference. From October 14 through 16 in Cleveland, Ohio. MEAKON brings together the brightest minds and leading voices in AI. Don't miss this opportunity to connect with a dynamic community of experts, visionaries and enthusiasts. The Agile Brand is proud to be the lead media sponsor of this important event. Register today@marketingai institute.com that's marketingai institute.com and use the code Agile150 for $150 off your registration fee. I can't wait to see you there.
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Unknown Host
And so on the inside of an org, I mean, a lot of the work that I do is with large companies with you know, silos is a cliche, but it's real. Like, it's a cliche for a reason. What does this look like when it's done? Well, in terms of, you know, how different parts of an org work with one another?
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Kelsey Chickering
I'll talk about wanting, actually one example of where this breaks down a lot, and that's. I cover social media and social care and customer service is something that's been coming up more and more. Actually, My colleague Christina McAllister and I are working and Colleen Fazio are working on a report right now about this for this reason, because we get these calls from customers who. It's either the marketing team or the service team. And one of them comes to us and they're like, okay, we're trying to figure out how to collaborate better, how to make sure that we're better connected. And there's the beginnings of connectivity happening where some of the tools and technology are making it easier for you to collaborate, but it requires you to talk to each other and to break down some of those silos. And, you know, I hear so often where the customer service team is like, oh, well, marketing never told us when they had a big campaign launching or they had an influencer market. And then we get barraged with comments. Right. Or the product team never told the social media team that something new was being launched and they're actually getting some bad feedback about it. So you should be ready on social media. So there's this level of, like, triaging that needs to get. People need to get better at that will ultimately allow you to really bring that brand and customer experience together.
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Unknown Host
Yeah. So I mean, even just a heads up of like, hey, this thing is happening, Right? Yeah, even that.
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Kelsey Chickering
Like, that is one small step you can take to, hey, maybe on a monthly basis, we should let them know what our calendar is.
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Unknown Host
Right.
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Kelsey Chickering
Or like, we are getting a ton of questions about this one thing via our call center. Maybe we should let the social media team know. Yeah, these small little things, they add up to something bigger.
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Unknown Host
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And so then for those organizations that are maybe a little further along on some of the connectedness, talking about personalization, you know, there's. There's a fine line between, you know, being personal, being personalized and helpful. And, you know, it could be too helpful. It could be. Some people call it creepy. As a marketer, I tend to not call it creepy, but I'll use that word anyway. How do brands find that line from, you know, you're. You're trying to connect with someone who is distracted, who is on, you know, 10 different devices at the same time or thinking they are at least, and you're trying to reach through and break through. But, you know, how do you find that line between, like, being personalized, right time, right moment, right channel, and, wow, this is a little like, are they watching me?
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Kelsey Chickering
Oh, totally. I mean, we've all had that experience, right? Were they listening? I think they were listening. They had to have been listening. Yeah, it's a good question. You know, and tactically, one of those things is like frequency management, where of course, you want to get in front of somebody enough times for them to make a decision, but that comes back to variety. Like I talked to earlier, it doesn't have to be frequency of the same exact thing all the time. How can you make sure you're getting in front of them in, like, a lot of different ways? So I think that's one place where it's not like this constant barrage where they're like, okay, now this is getting really creepy that you're, that you're following me. But I think it's a good point for you to balance, you know, how. How much is too much. And let's ask our customers, let's test this. Let's see what works and doesn't work to make some decisions around that.
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Unknown Host
And then when there is that right mix of right time, right place, right channel, right customer, even, let's say, a lot of the experience. It's not always some of the experiences, rather mundane moments. Let's be honest. How can a brand turn some of those things? Like, do you have maybe an example or just some guidance for an organization of, like, how do you turn something that could be looked at as a mundane, like just automated and kind of forget it, into something that could be more valuable and could actually make someone more loyal in the long run?
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Kelsey Chickering
Hmm. This is a good question. I actually talked, I talked earlier during my speech about usaa, which actually has a very, very high total experience score. And they, I think they're really good at turning those mundane moments into good moments because of how relevant that they are and how tailored their interactions are to their members. So they're dedicated to, you know, military service members and their families. And you see that when they are guiding them toward resources and information that are right for their life event, they are anticipating when a live event is likely going to happen based on data signals. And they can turn that mobile into something that is, you know, helpful and useful and moving them forward versus, you know, here's another product.
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Unknown Host
Yeah, And I think I had somebody from USAA on the show a couple years ago and they talked about one of their, one of the parts of their process, and there's a few other companies that do this as well. Is like your first couple weeks there, I want to say, like, you're like actually taking the customer service requests and like you're on the front no matter what your job is. You know, you're on the kind of the front lines there. And I feel like that's a good way to build like even, I mean, everybody generally needs insurance and needs the things that USA provides. But I think that, you know, having to like, deal directly with the customers gives you a different perspective, right?
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Kelsey Chickering
Absolutely. Like, I, I, I worked on a lot of like, big QSR brands with service restaurant brands, and there's been a couple that I've worked with and it was actually both qsr. I remember asking the question, I was on the social media team, like marketing team, then I would say, hey, can you get me what are some of the most frequently asked questions the top customer service? Like, what are you hearing from customers right now? On the customer service side, to guide content creation. Not just because we were getting, like, I wasn't community managing, but just to guide content. And it was so hard to get that information. I'm like, why is this so hard to get this information? We should all be looking at the voice of a customer to make decisions around what content we need to make, how we need to reach them better, like all of that. But that so often doesn't happen where you actually read and see that, that information in front of you.
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Unknown Host
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's that, you know, to kind of go back to the, it's, it's that holistic, you know, the total experience thing, you know, where it's, it's not just a point in the journey. It's not just trying to sell stuff to people. It's every touch point, every interaction you.
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Kelsey Chickering
Can, anyone, I shouldn't say anyone can sell, but a lot of people can sell something.
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Unknown Host
Right?
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Kelsey Chickering
But can you do the thing right? And I think that's where the breakdown happens all the time.
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Unknown Host
Yeah, absolutely. Well, Kelsey, thanks so much for joining today and yeah, great to see you here at Forrester cx. One last question for you before we wrap up. What do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?
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Kelsey Chickering
I listen a lot. And by listen, I mean I listen to a lot of podcasts. That's sort of my being able to stay up on things consistently, like whether I'm working out. I'm walking, driving. I live in Miami. I do a lot of driving. That's, that's one way I'm able to actually stay up on it all because especially covering what I cover social media. It is changing constantly.
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Unknown Host
Yeah.
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Kelsey Chickering
So I'm a big podcast listener.
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Unknown Host
Nice. Love it. Well, again, I'd like to thank Kelsey Chickering, Principal Analyst at Forrester, for joining the show here at Forrester CX in Nashville, Tennessee. To learn more about Kelsey and Forrester, you can follow the links in the show Notes.
- [19:39]
Greg Kilstrom
Thanks again for listening to the Agile Brand. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show as well. You can access more episodes of the show@theagilebrand.com that's theagile brand.com and contact me. If you're interested in consulting or advisory services or are looking for a speaker for your next event, go to www.gregkilstrom.com that's G R E G K I H L S t r o m.com the Agile brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively fueled production co op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and stay agile.
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Unknown Host
The Agile Brand.
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Greg Kilstrom
Before we continue, I wanted to share a key strategic resource that a majority of the Fortune 500 are already aware of. Finding the best technology, business and talent solutions is not easy. With business demands and competitive pressures mounting, you need to be able to design deployments and optimize your technology to provide leading customer experiences while driving business growth. Those of you that have been listening to this show for a while know that this podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, a global provider of technology, business and talent solutions for more than 80% of the Fortune 500. Tech Systems accelerates business transformation for their customers. Whether you're looking to maximize your technology roi, drive business growth, or elevate customer experiences, Tech Systems enables enterprises to capitalize on change. Learn more at techsystems. Com. That's teksystems. Com. Now, let's get back to the show.