#724: Social commerce and the customer journey with Janna Navarro, Wpromote

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®
Episode: #724: Social commerce and the customer journey with Janna Navarro, Wpromote
Date: August 27, 2025
Guest: Janna Navarro, VP Brand and Media Strategy, Wpromote
Host: Greg Kihlström

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into how social commerce and a connected customer journey are reshaping the marketing landscape. Greg Kihlström hosts Janna Navarro, who shares her expertise on breaking down silos, leveraging first-party data, creating seamless social commerce experiences, and staying agile amid rapid technological change. The conversation highlights the shift away from linear funnels to dynamic engagement, and how brands must adapt to maintain genuine relationships with their customers across platforms.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Evolving (Non-Linear) Customer Journey

[01:10-05:10]

• The traditional marketing funnel—awareness, consideration, conversion—is now obsolete.
• Consumers' paths to purchase are unpredictable, non-linear, and can start or end anywhere, often on social platforms.
• Brands must “develop a relationship with consumers that extends beyond the last point of purchase.”

  “Wouldn’t it be a dream if consumers went through the traditional phase of awareness, consideration, conversion? But that’s just not the truth.”
  —Janna Navarro [04:18]

• Even highly regular customers (e.g., Amazon shoppers) need continuous engagement and reminders of value.

Social Commerce: Blending Content and Commerce

[05:19-06:25]

• Two critical success factors:
  1. Authenticity: Content must feel native to the brand and channel.

     “Consumers see right through that [inauthentic content].” —Janna Navarro [05:58]

  2. Seamlessness: Make purchasing as frictionless as possible, with integrated purchase flows (e.g., Amazon + TikTok).

     “Making it as easy as possible for our customers to transact.” —Janna Navarro [06:08]

Building a Connected Brand & Media Ecosystem

[06:28-07:48]

• Importance of first-party data to understand unique consumer flows.
• Not all channels play the same role; strategists must marry data with tailored channel usage.

  “Understanding the roles and responsibilities of various media channels... marrying that together is where you’re going to get that connected ecosystem.” —Janna Navarro [07:07]

Measuring More than Just Last-Click or ROAS

[07:49-09:08]

• Brands are moving beyond singular focus on ROAS (Return on Ad Spend) to broader goals: awareness, trust, and new customer acquisition.
• This shift brings hundreds of KPIs, leading to data overwhelm.
• Wpromote introduces the “Care Index”—a unified metric aggregating multiple KPIs to measure actual customer “care” for the brand.

  “How do we measure that a consumer actually cares about your brand, and by caring... that is gonna drive revenue growth.” —Janna Navarro [08:08]

Testing & Learning as a Strategic Imperative

[11:02-12:11]

• The pace of change in technology and AI leaves no room for complacency.
• “Testing and learning is a strategic focus... it is part of the strategy.” —Janna Navarro [11:27]
• Cites the speed of AI adoption vs. historical changes like Google, emphasizing constant experimentation as essential.

The CX Paradox: Why Are Brands Still Missing the Mark?

[12:12-14:28]

• Despite a lot of industry talk, Forrester’s CX Index is declining.
• The big mistake: Assuming one purchase equals loyalty, and underestimating the value of maintaining current relationships.

  “Maintaining a current customer is hell of a lot cheaper than continuing to find new customers.” —Janna Navarro [12:46]

• Trend towards reintegrating what were siloed practices (brand, performance, product marketing) back into holistic strategies that serve the customer journey cohesively.

  “If we’re not all talking together, we’re doing a disservice to the customer.” —Janna Navarro [14:12]

Social Commerce & Influencer Partnerships: Authenticity and Trust

[14:30-17:03]

• Pitfall: Brands are too rigid, “over prescriptive” in influencer briefs, undermining authenticity and trust.
• Necessity for brands to do the foundational work of self-discovery, then trust influencers to carry the message authentically:

  “Influencer trust is now going down. Brands need to start getting really comfortable—know who they are enough to trust that influencer to be able to explain who they are.” —Janna Navarro [15:00]

• Janna likens it to personal relationships: “When you can know yourself better and who you are, you show up in relationship with other people and they respond to you differently.” [16:18]

Staying Agile—Brand & Personal Mindset

[17:05-17:59]

• Janna's tip: Stay agile by acting as a consumer first, even in everyday decisions (e.g., grocery shopping), analyzing what influences her own behaviors, and applying those insights to work.

  “In every interaction in my life... I always go back to the fact that I’m a consumer first.” —Janna Navarro [17:16]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the myth of linearity:

  “Wouldn’t it be a dream if consumers went through the traditional phase... But that’s just not the truth.”
  —Janna Navarro [04:18]

• On authenticity in social commerce:

  “Consumers see right through that.”
  —Janna Navarro [05:58]

• On testing as strategy:

  “Testing and learning is a strategic focus... it is part of the strategy.”
  —Janna Navarro [11:27]

• On influencer marketing:

  “Brands need to start getting really comfortable—know who they are enough to trust that influencer to be able to explain who they are.”
  —Janna Navarro [15:00]

• On customer retention:

  “Maintaining a current customer is hell of a lot cheaper than continuing to find new customers.”
  —Janna Navarro [12:46]

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Important Timestamps

• [01:10] — The end of the linear funnel; the imperative for agility.
• [05:36-06:25] — Lessons in social commerce: authenticity and seamless transactions.
• [07:07] — Why first-party data and channel roles matter in creating a connected ecosystem.
• [08:08] — Moving past last-click; Wpromote’s unified “Care Index” metric.
• [11:27] — The necessity of perpetual test-and-learn cycles.
• [12:46] — Why retention trumps acquisition in today’s environment.
• [15:00-16:18] — The brand/influencer trust gap and the call for authentic self-definition.
• [17:16] — Janna’s personal approach to staying agile by thinking like a consumer.

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Closing Thoughts

This episode emphasizes that today’s customer journey is unpredictable and must be met with agility, authenticity, and data-driven insights. Brands need to break out of functional silos, create seamless experiences across channels (especially social), and measure more meaningful metrics than just sales. Ultimately, knowing your brand and your customer—and maintaining that relationship every step of the way—will define long-term success in the social commerce era.

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Transcript

[Jana Navarro]

The Agile Brand.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Welcome to Season seven of the Agile Brand where we discuss the trends and topics marketing leaders need to know. Stay curious, stay agile and join the top enterprise brands and martech platforms as we explore marketing, technology, AI, e commerce and whatever's next for the omnichannel customer experience. Together we'll discover what it takes to create an agile brand built for today and tomorrow and built for customers, employees and continued business growth. I'm your host Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, AI and marketing operations. The Agile Brand Podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, an industry leader in full stack technology services, talent services and real world application. For more information, go to teksystems.com to make sure you always get the latest episodes, please hit subscribe on the app you listen to podcasts on and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. And now onto the show. Are most brands still designing customer journeys.

[Interviewer/Host]

Or are they just trying to keep.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Up with where their customers are leading them? Agility requires a willingness to meet your.

[Interviewer/Host]

Customers where they are, not just where you wish they'd convert.

[Greg Kilstrom]

In an era where the consumer journey.

[Interviewer/Host]

Can begin and end on a social platform or anywhere in between, brands must be fluid enough to engage meaningfully across channels while still connecting the dots behind the scenes.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Today we're going to talk about the.

[Interviewer/Host]

Changing customer journey and why a connected ecosystem that includes social commerce, audience targeting and measurement is now table stakes.

[Greg Kilstrom]

To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome Jana Navarro, VP Brand.

[Interviewer/Host]

And Media Strategy at wpromote.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Jenna, welcome to the show.

[Jana Navarro]

Thanks Greg.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah, looking forward to talking about this with you. Got a few things to talk through here, but before we dive in, why don't you give a little background on yourself and your role at Wpromote.

[Jana Navarro]

Yeah, so as you mentioned, I am VP of Brand and Media Strategy at Wpromote and all your listeners are probably wondering who is Wpromote? We are an independent marketing agency founded over 20 years ago, really specializing in driving transformative growth for ambitious brands. So really think of those challenger brands that are breaking through and have big lofty goals. And how do we do that? We do that through a full funnel marketing strategy that's inclusive of media, creative and data. So really connecting the dots for these brands. How did I get here? Been here over a year. I like to say that I've kind of been around the agency block if you will. I have spent some time at some of the big hold cos where I was classically trained in media, but really where my career sort of took off and excelled was at an agency called Crispin, Porter and Buguski, which was really big in the early 2000s, 2010s. And I had the privilege of working with Domino's Pizza and working my way up to eventually lead their media strategy. And looking back on that, I now realize what a transformative era that was in my career of not only being able to work with such an incredible brand, but at an agency that was very consumer creative led. So it allowed me to think of media differently. Also spent some time brand side where I created an in house agency and really appreciative of that experience because now I understand what our clients are dealing with. And those Monday morning meetings, right. With the cfo CEO and you have to report on numbers. That also helped me give a different perspective. Now I'm here.

[Tech Systems Sponsor Voice]

Nice, nice.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Great.

[Tech Systems Sponsor Voice]

Well, yeah, let's, let's dive in.

[Interviewer/Host]

And I want to start with the idea that the consumer journey is no longer linear. It's, or even predictable for that matter. So from your perspective, how has the traditional, you know, we've all seen the marketing funnel, you know, diagrams and all that kind of stuff. You know, how has that traditional funnel broken down? And what should brand and media strategists do differently to keep up with consumers who are kind of, they're increasingly converting on their own terms?

[Jana Navarro]

Yeah, great question. This is one that I feel like I could talk all day about. I mean, wouldn't it be a dream, right, if consumers went through the traditional phase of awareness, consideration, conversion. But that's just not the truth. And the reality is, is that just because a consumer purchased you once does not mean that they are going to purchase you again. So it is our job as marketers to ensure that brands are developing a relationship with consumers and that extends beyond that last point of purchase. I always like to share this quote. I have an 8 year old daughter and we're watching NFL and she was like, hey mom, why is Amazon advertising on the NFL? We get packages from them every single day. Because Amazon needs to make sure that they're reminding me of why I care about them as a product. Because they are not banking on the fact that, that I order them every single day.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Jana Navarro]

Like that could end very soon. So again, it's our job to really make sure as marketers that we stay in relationship with our consumers.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So you've talked about how social commerce is becoming a key part of the conversion path. Where do you see, you know, some of the Biggest opportunities or pitfalls for brands that are trying to blend commerce and content in social spaces.

[Jana Navarro]

Yeah, I think there's two areas here that brands need to make sure they're doing. Number one, and they both actually start from a customer first lens. So number one, ensuring that they as the brand are in content that feels authentic and native to who they are because consumers see right through that.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Jana Navarro]

And then I think the other area to really make sure that social media, social commerce works is by ensuring that the purchase process is seamless.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Jana Navarro]

So you think about how Amazon's integrated with TikTok. That is a very seamless, easy for a consumer to click purchase in that second. So it's our job to of course, making sure that we are in the right content, but also making it as easy as possible for our customers to transact.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[Interviewer/Host]

So let's talk about, you know, part of the reason why journeys aren't as linear is because consumers are on multiple devices, multiple channels, you know, all, all of that. So talking about this, this ecosystem and how to think about that. So it's no longer enough to just be on all the channels, you need to be connected across, you know, like the, the Amazon TikTok example, you know, you need to be connected not only within them, but also across them. Right. So how should marketers think about building a truly connected media and brand ecosystem?

[Jana Navarro]

I think marketers need to first and foremost understand the power of the first party data they have and how consumers are flowing through process when it comes to their brand and their product. Right. Because not everyone is the same. So, so I think that that's really important when you start designing a connected ecosystem. And I think too we need to make, make sure that we understand the roles and responsibilities of various media channels because they aren't all going to fit in the same box. So making sure you marry again the data you have on your customers and then really understanding the role of the channel, marrying that together is where you're going to get that connected ecosystem.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And so what role does data and measurement play in understanding the total lift? And how are you helping brands go beyond just last click metrics to do something more meaningful and really understand that total lift?

[Jana Navarro]

Yeah. So number one, brands are no longer coming to us with just a ROAS goal.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Jana Navarro]

Or like I need to drive this revenue in return. I mean obviously that is a big business goal for them, but we're now seeing brands coming to us with a goal of awareness, with a goal driving trust, with getting new customers. Right. Like all the way down the funnel. So that's requiring hundreds of metrics and KPIs which can become incredibly overwhelming to look at. So we're actually working on an index here at wpromote called the Care Index, which sort of takes all of these KPIs together into one unifying metric that really is all about how do we measure that a consumer actually cares about your brand and by caring about your brand that is gonna dive down into naturally revenue growth.

[Greg Kilstrom]

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[Interviewer/Host]

So I guess zooming out a little bit then you know with so many shifts, you know we've touched on the consumer behavior shift platforms coming and going and consumers, you know, using multiple ones privacy rules which we haven't even touched on yet. You know, how do you advise brands to test and learn without losing that strategic focus that drives them?

[Jana Navarro]

Testing and learning is a strategic focus. Like we have to make sure that we're testing and learning, it's imperative to brands right now. I mean, even if you think about Google, right. Starting in 1998 and how long it took them to get to where they are, I think that the latest stats on, like, ChatGPT and AI, it would surpass Google by 2030 at their growth rate.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Right, right.

[Jana Navarro]

So that is how fast our industry is moving right now. And if we aren't testing and learning on a consistent basis, then you're already behind. So in my opinion, it's not a question of, oh, let's test and learn over here. It is part of the strategy.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And so, you know, there, there's certainly a lot of talk about the customer journey and customer experience in general. You know, know, I just got back from the, the Forester CX conference showing that, you know, again, despite all this talk that we give it, the CX index has dropped for the third year in a row and, and stuff like that. So what are brands getting wrong about? You know, for, for all the talk and all the writing and all the podcasts and all the stuff that we do about this, what are, what are brands still getting wrong about? That? The consumer journey today, I think going.

[Jana Navarro]

Back, bringing it full circle to what I talked about in the beginning here, is brands really thinking that just because a consumer purchased you once means that they know about you and they may come back again. But again, just being in relationship with your customer is critically important because maintaining a current customer is hell of a lot cheaper. Right. Than continuing to find new customers?

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean, do you think that brands are still in many cases operating under kind of the old way of like, we're gonna, we're gonna map out this linear journey and just kind of hope that consumers, you know, follow what we've kind of dictated or, you know, are in your experience and what you're seeing are brands starting to come around to this idea of they do need the connection and the, you know, to kind of be everywhere and yet tie all the strategy together. Like, is. Is the. Is there momentum in the right direction, in other words?

[Jana Navarro]

Absolutely. I do think that in our industry, momentum is in the right direction. I think our industry went through a period where things started to get sectioned off. Like, you're going to have brand experience over here, you're going to have product, you're going to have performance marketing, you're going to have brand marketing.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Jana Navarro]

And sort of what we're seeing. And we saw that with agencies too.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Jana Navarro]

Like, agencies started to get really specialized and, and what we're seeing now is all of it coming back together because all of those components are critical to being in relationship with the customer. And if we're not all talking together, we're doing a disservice to the customer.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, good point.

[Interviewer/Host]

And then, you know, I know one of your focus areas is social commerce and I know we talked a little bit about this, but you know, what's, what are you seeing there? You know, what's a trend or area of growth that brands should really be paying attention to in this, in that, in that realm?

[Jana Navarro]

It's not necessarily an area of growth, but I think it's an important area that a lot of brands are getting wrong. I think brands are being too over prescriptive with how they're briefing influencers.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Jana Navarro]

And not leveraging influencer equity. And what we're seeing is that influencer trust is now going down. And I think what needs to happen is brands need to start getting really comfortable and doing the work upfront of who they are and again getting comfortable in that so they know who they are enough to trust that influencer to be able to explain who they are. So I just, I feel like there's a little bit of control happening because brands may not understand who they are enough to be able to trust the influencer.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

I mean that's a, that it's, it's hard, it's hard to do that. Right. Like that's, that's a difficult thing to, even internally to get teams to really understand what the, what the brand is all about. But now you know, and let alone, you know, the end, end consumer. But now you're talking about there's sort of this middle layer, right. That where maybe, maybe they can get a little bit of coaching. But you're saying then the, some of the trust is that it just, it's, it's lack of authenticity because it's over prescribed, is that?

[Jana Navarro]

Yes, exactly. It's over prescribed because the brand might not be clear on who they are. And I always like to think of marketing as just you're a consumer first.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Jana Navarro]

And I'm a human first.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Right.

[Jana Navarro]

And think just about how you're in relationship with other people. Like when you can know yourself better and who you are, you show up in relationship with other people and they respond to you differently. And, and that's how brands should be acting and interacting with influencers as well.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

And I can only imagine that would, that should trickle down to the end consumer as well. Like in other words, if they can, if they can first do it internally really well and then second do it for influencers maybe again that kind of that outer layer then it must like the end consumers whether even if they don't interact directly with an influencer, I would imagine the brand is so well defined at that point that it, it benefits them in all ways. Right?

[Jana Navarro]

Exactly.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well Jenna, thanks so much for for joining today. I've got one last question for you before we wrap up here. What do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?

[Jana Navarro]

It's a good question. I don't have enough hours in the day to read everything that's happening. So what I typically do is in every interaction in my life, whether it's in work or in my personal life, I again always go back to the fact that I'm a consumer first. Even if I'm thinking of buying a new product at the grocery store, I take a second to think about why am I buying that product. Do they understand me from a mindset perspective? Is the packaging really cool? Did someone give me a sample of it? Did I get a piece of direct mail? So I'm just always connecting the dots in my daily life and that helps keep me pretty agile in what I'm doing in professional life.

[Supporting Host/Interviewer]

Yeah. Love it.

[Interviewer/Host]

Well, again I'd like to thank Jana.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Navarro, VP Brand and Media Strategy at.

[Interviewer/Host]

WPpromote for joining the show. You can learn more about Jana and wpromote by following the links in the show notes.

[Greg Kilstrom]

Thanks again for listening to the Agile Brand brought to you by Tech Systems. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show as well. You can access more episodes of the show@theagile brand.com that's theagile brand.com and contact me. If you're interested in consulting or advisory services or are looking for a speaker for your next event, go to www.greggkilstrom.com that's G R E G K-I H L S T R O M.com the Agile brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively fueled production co op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and stay agile.

[Jana Navarro]

The Agile Brand.

[Tech Systems Sponsor Voice]

Before we continue, I wanted to share a key strategic resource that that a majority of the Fortune 500 are already aware of. Finding the best technology, business and talent solutions is not easy. With business demands and competitive pressures mounting you need to be able to design, deploy, and optimize your technology to provide leading customer experiences while driving business growth. Those of you that have been listening to this show for a while know that this podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, a global provider of technology, business and talent solutions for more than 80% of the Fortune 500. Tech Systems accelerates business transformation for their customers. Whether you're looking to maximize your technology roi, drive business growth, or elevate customer experiences, Tech Systems enables enterprises to capitalize on change. Learn [e-mail] that's T E K systems.com now let's get back to the show.