Podcast Summary: The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®

Episode #738: Building Marketing Strategy When Change is the Constant with Heidi Bullock, Tealium
Date: September 22, 2025
Host: Greg Kihlström
Guest: Heidi Bullock, CMO at Tealium

Overview

This episode explores how marketing leaders can build and sustain effective strategies in a digital environment defined by constant change and unpredictability. Greg Kihlström and Heidi Bullock engage in a practical, insightful conversation focused on first-party data, real-time insights, technology adoption (especially around CDPs and server-side APIs), change management, and striking the crucial balance between personalization and consumer privacy. The discussion is filled with real-world tips, compelling data points, and actionable recommendations for marketers striving to stay agile, deliver ROI, and future-proof their customer experience strategies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The New Normal: Uncertainty & Agility

• Main Takeaway: Marketing leaders can no longer rely on static plans; continuous adaptation is now essential.
• Heidi on CMO Challenges:

  "I think being a CMO these days, or I would say, you know, not just a CMO, but any executive role is probably never been more challenging... there's so many technologies to stay on top of. There's a lot of pressure, you know, obviously to make sure that the business is successful." (03:50)

• Advice: Go back to basics: Know your buyer and build your strategy around first-party data.

  "Have a good first party data strategy, that's the first thing I would tell people listening... the companies that can do that well will continue to drive growth and be successful." (04:43)

• Pitfall to Avoid: Don’t overcomplicate or delay getting started; action beats perfection.

2. Technology is Not a Silver Bullet

• Insight: Technology is powerful, but strategy, people, and processes matter just as much—if not more.

  "A mistake that I see a lot of people make is they think technology is the answer... Technology is nine times out of ten, never the problem. It's really making sure that you, that you have the, you know, really what your clear goals are." (05:53)

• Recommendation:
  • Set clear business goals first.
  • Build a cross-functional team for alignment.
  • Choose and implement tech (e.g., CDPs) once strategy and people are set.
• Greg’s Analogy:

  "It's just like thinking you're going to have a better year ahead if you go on a crazy shopping spree... your new dress or whatever is not going to fix everything." (07:51)

3. Real-time Data vs. Historical Data

• Story Highlight: A Tealium customer found that real-time behavioral data, even collected in 30 seconds, was more predictive than 10 years of historical data.

  "They found that data that they collected within, you know, 30 seconds was more telling than data they collected on key buyers over 10 years." (09:18)

• Key Takeaway: Marketers must prioritize collecting, analyzing, and acting on real-time data to stay relevant and agile in messaging and targeting.

  "Just make sure that you have a way of understanding those signals in real time." (10:46)

• Balance: Don't discard legacy data; combine it with real-time insights for a full view of the customer.
• Operational Reality: Relying on dated data incurs technical and operational debt and can promote outdated thinking.

4. Maximizing ROI with Server-side Conversions (CAPI)

• Explained:
  • Tealium's Conversions API sends event/conversion data server-side (instead of relying on third-party cookies), resulting in cleaner signals and better ad platform matching.
  • This addresses major tracking challenges amid cookie deprecation.
• Results:

  "We see, you know, basically every single company that implements this...25% improvement on ROAS. That's one stat. We see some that are a lot more significant..." (13:49)

• Advice:

  "If there's one thing you want to do for the rest of the year and you are an organization that spends money on Google, Meta, LinkedIn, this is by far a key thing to do because... our spend was much better here and for these segments." (14:44)

5. What Customers Want from Brands and Martech Vendors

• Consumer Need: Clear, focused guidance and a true partnership, not just endless possibilities.

  "Folks want to work with a vendor who... can be a trusted advisor, provide experience." (16:25)

• Vendor Pitfall: Overpromising flexibility (“it can do anything”) confuses overwhelmed marketers.
• Greg’s Note:

  "Even though it's software purchasing, it's also change management from the people side." (17:56)

• Start Small: Choose a single powerful use case, prove value, then expand.

6. Data Privacy: The Pressing Dual Imperative

• Challenge: Data privacy is now both a compliance and a customer trust issue.

  "One of the biggest things that people can do is again it goes back to having a first party data strategy... you're making it easy and a straightforward path for them to provide the right information versus purchasing it." (20:15)

• Technical Requirement: Platforms must update consent status in real-time across all channels.

  "You need a, a technology that can update that consent status in real time across all the key channels that you're choosing to opt out of." (21:24)

• Consequences: Non-compliance leads to fines; lost trust means lost business.
• Win-Win:

  "First party data just works too... it's a win, win... the marketing you can do is actually higher quality." (23:18)

7. Navigating Change and Future-Proofing

• Heidi’s Advice for Leaders:
  • Tackle hard changes head-on; don’t delay.
  • Set precise goals and align your “center of excellence” data team.
  • Seek peer insights from similar orgs to shortcut your journey.

  "Find another organization maybe that is similar to you, and talk to some of those leaders, see what they've done and where they've maybe failed, so you can learn from that." (25:09)

• Greg’s Reflection: Industry peers are often eager to share their learnings.

  "I'm always surprised at how forthcoming, you know, so many people are and just willing to learn." (25:46)

8. Staying Agile as a Marketing Leader

• Heidi’s Formula:

  "My number one piece of advice for people is: listen to podcasts. It's just the freshest, most current information. And then I always set aside a part of my week and then budget to test and look at new things... you have to set aside some money and time to do it." (26:21)

• Self-Initiative Required:

  "No one is going to open it up for you. You have to do it yourself." (26:59)

Notable Quotes

• On Getting Started:

  "Sometimes the tip is really just get started... the world is moving fast and so they slowly and, you know, actually probably more quickly start to fall behind."
  — Heidi Bullock (04:56)

• On Real-Time Data:

  "Data we collected today is... more useful than 10 years of historical data."
  — Heidi Bullock (09:22)

• On Consent Management:

  "It's like dating, it's a dance. And companies have to respect that because... people just, they really expect those preferences to be upheld and not just when they're first given, but throughout that entire journey."
  — Heidi Bullock (22:18)

• On Technology Adoption:

  "It doesn't have to be scary...the companies that are acting quick and just doing it, they're really, they're quite successful and they are growing."
  — Heidi Bullock (24:18)

• On Learning:

  "People like to help. They do."
  — Heidi Bullock (26:07)

• On Experimentation:

  "You have to be somebody that's always trying because I've just been delighted at some new technologies that I've tried or just even new approaches to things."
  — Heidi Bullock (26:38)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:50] — The CMO challenge: Overwhelm, pressure, and staying focused on basics
• [04:43] — Importance of first-party data strategies
• [05:53] — The misconception: Technology as a cure-all vs. the importance of clear goals and alignment
• [09:18] — Case study: Real-time data outperforms a decade of historical insights
• [13:49] — Explanation and value of server-side conversions API and boosting ROAS
• [16:25] — Why customers want focused, advisory partnerships from martech vendors
• [20:15] — Data privacy: Why and how to build consumer trust with real-time consent management
• [24:18] — Advice to leaders on balancing change with performance; learn from peers, act decisively
• [26:21] — Heidi’s personal strategy for agility: learning and experimentation

Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, practical, and approachable with humor and relatable analogies. Heidi uses storytelling and specific advice to keep guidance grounded and actionable, while Greg steers the conversation toward real-world challenges and solutions with empathy and curiosity.

Summary

This episode serves as a masterclass in building a resilient, agile marketing strategy amidst constant industry flux. Key themes are the primacy of first-party and real-time data, the necessity of focused and aligned teams before tech investments, the tangible benefits of modern data platforms (like Tealium’s CDP and CAPI), the imperative of real-time consent management for compliance and trust, and the practical realities of leading teams through change. Both industry veterans urge marketers to start small, learn quickly, and continuously experiment, echoing the core ethos: stay curious, stay agile.