The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström – Episode #741
Managing Your Brand Reputation in Real-Time
Guest: Jeff Hahn, Principal at Hahn Agency
Date: September 26, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode centers on the rapidly evolving challenges and opportunities in brand reputation management—especially in the fast-moving world of AI-driven communication and influencer partnerships. Greg Kihlström interviews Jeff Hahn, a crisis communications expert and author of "Breaking Bad News," about ethical AI, handling PR crises, measuring influencer impact, and staying agile as a communications professional.
Themes include:
- The ethical use of AI in PR and marketing communications
- Real-time risk management using AI-driven simulations
- Next-gen metrics for influencer marketing
- Crisis readiness in an era where news moves at lightning speed
- Career advice for future-proofing yourself in a shifting media landscape
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Jeff Hahn’s Background and Agency Focus [02:03]
- Jeff Hahn introduces himself as Principal of Hahn, a 45-person agency specializing in energy/power and health/nutrition ("a heating and eating agency").
- His specialization: crisis communication, frequently dealing with unexpected events across both sectors.
2. Ethical Considerations of AI in PR/Marketing [03:24]
Jeff outlines three major concerns:
- Human Mimicking & Deception:
- “When AI is able to impersonate humans so well, it’s important… that we’re transparent and we disclose that we are using AI.” [03:35]
- Trust and transparency are paramount.
- Privacy & Data Ethics:
- Worries about excessive behavioral tracking and AI ingesting vast amounts of data without consent.
- Suggests more regulation is imminent.
- Sustainability/Energy Consumption:
- “A query into an LLM uses about 10x the power of a standard query… That power demand has shifted the narrative in the energy industry from climate crisis to power shortage.” [04:07]
- AI’s resource demands are an underappreciated ethical issue.
Memorable Quote:
“Trust is really at the crux of all these.” – Jeff Hahn [03:46]
3. AI Opportunities in Crisis PR [06:52]
- AI’s greatest immediate use: crisis prediction and scenario simulation.
- Shift from mere rapid response to anticipating crises and preparing detailed, immersive scenarios.
- AI shrinks the gap between “possibility and probability,” allowing more precise preparedness.
Memorable Quote:
“AI is going to close that gap… and allow for immersion scenarios that’ll make you cry, they’re so realistic.” – Jeff Hahn [07:13]
- Playbooks will transition from static documents to dynamic, AI-enabled risk management tools.
4. Influencer Marketing: Rethinking Metrics & Trust [10:03]
- Moving beyond follower counts and engagement rates.
- Advocates for measuring “earned media crossover”—did an influencer help make news or build trust for the brand?
- Focus on outcomes (trust, newsworthiness), not just outputs.
- We are in a low-trust era: using trusted influencers can help brands “borrow” credibility.
Memorable Quote:
“If you shift that power from message over to the messengers with influencers, you’ve got yourself the right play for this era… you’re borrowing from that influencer’s trust reservoir.” – Jeff Hahn [11:20]
- Their data science team is exploring new, layered metrics and real-time dashboards for influencer impact.
On Backfires & Risk Mitigation [13:00]
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Not all campaign backlash is negative (“Is a backfire a bad thing?”).
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Cites the American Eagle/Sydney Sweeney example—negative attention boosted stock price.
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Cites the Solo Stove/Snoop Dogg misalignment—no sales lift, executives ousted.
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Advice:
- Define success before the campaign.
- Align influencer metrics with desired business outcomes.
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“Knowing what success means is the first best defense against something going really wrong.” – Jeff Hahn [14:37]
5. Crisis Communications in a Real-Time World [16:49]
- Speed is the #1 challenge in modern crisis response.
- Most brands are too slow because their rapid response teams aren’t ready or don’t know their roles.
- Example: Astronomer’s quick pivot using Gwyneth Paltrow for a PR response.
Memorable Quote:
“The old saying is a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth gets its pants on… imagine today.” – Jeff Hahn [17:10]
6. Lessons from “Breaking Bad News” (Jeff’s Book) [19:01]
- You can’t always predict when a crisis will strike, but you can know your response options.
- His book articulates four types of options:
- Holding Statements (4 types)
- Messaging Options (16 types)
- Choice of Messenger (7 options)
- Media/Channel Outlets (12 options)
- Flexibility (options) beats rigid answers; enables quick, tailored response under pressure.
“Options are much better than answers because good judgment has to lead the way when the pressure’s on.” – Jeff Hahn [20:09]
7. Future of PR & Communications [20:46]
- Massive consolidation: From ~50 major media companies in 2000 to just six today. Syndication makes news spread faster and wider.
- Real-time analytics have become essential for PR practitioners—no more waiting for weekly/monthly reports.
- Fragmented media landscape: Podcasts, niche audiences—PR is increasingly about targeting micro-communities, not just big news outlets.
“Now a PR practitioner isn’t pitching a reporter, they’re pitching over into an audience, into a podcaster like you.” – Jeff Hahn [22:14]
- AI’s role in PR pitching: simulating pitches and tailoring outreach based on audience/podcaster data.
8. Career Advice for Young Professionals [24:21]
- AI is eliminating entry-level roles (“destroying the bottom rung of the career ladder”).
- Importance of resilience and proactivity:
- “Raise your hand. Find ways to put yourself in the most difficult situations that no one else wants to be in.”
- These tough experiences build unique value and grit.
“No one wants to play catcher… And you get two benefits from that: good experience and you build resiliency.” – Jeff Hahn [24:38]
9. Staying Agile – Jeff’s Personal Practice [26:17]
- He avoids news media and instead reads extensively (2–3 hours/day).
- Deep reading brings context and pattern recognition not found in sound bites—keeps him nimble and informed.
“In reading, I’m able to really digest a lot more information and then find a pattern. So it really helps me stay nimble and agile…” – Jeff Hahn [26:39]
Notable Quotes
- “Trust is really at the crux of all these.” – Jeff Hahn [03:46]
- “AI is going to close that gap… and allow for immersion scenarios that’ll make you cry, they’re so realistic.” – Jeff Hahn [07:13]
- “If you shift that power from message over to the messengers with influencers, you’ve got yourself the right play for this era.” – Jeff Hahn [11:20]
- “Options are much better than answers because good judgment has to lead the way when the pressure’s on.” – Jeff Hahn [20:09]
- “No one wants to play catcher… And you get two benefits from that: good experience and you build resiliency.” – Jeff Hahn [24:38]
- “In reading, I’m able to really digest a lot more information and then find a pattern. So it really helps me stay nimble and agile…” – Jeff Hahn [26:39]
Important Timestamps
- 02:03 — Jeff Hahn's background and agency focus
- 03:24 — Top ethical concerns about AI in communications
- 06:52 — AI’s current and future use in crisis prediction and simulation
- 10:03 — Key influencer metrics, trust building, and “earned crossover”
- 13:00 — Handling influencer campaign backfires and risk mitigation
- 16:49 — Essential steps in reacting to a PR crisis in real-time
- 19:01 — Core framework from "Breaking Bad News"
- 20:46 — Trends shaping the next 2-3 years in PR/Comms
- 24:21 — Career advice for new professionals
- 26:17 — Staying agile through deep reading, not just media monitoring
Tone and Language
- Conversational, expert-driven, with strategic, actionable insights and real-world anecdotes
- Friendly exchange between Greg and Jeff, laced with a sense of urgency and optimism about future communications challenges
For listeners seeking a masterclass in real-time brand reputation management, this episode delivers actionable takeaways for leveraging AI ethically, maximizing influencer ROI, and staying resilient and agile in a fragmented, fast-moving media world.
