The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström – Episode #741

Managing Your Brand Reputation in Real-Time
Guest: Jeff Hahn, Principal at Hahn Agency
Date: September 26, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the rapidly evolving challenges and opportunities in brand reputation management—especially in the fast-moving world of AI-driven communication and influencer partnerships. Greg Kihlström interviews Jeff Hahn, a crisis communications expert and author of "Breaking Bad News," about ethical AI, handling PR crises, measuring influencer impact, and staying agile as a communications professional.
Themes include:

• The ethical use of AI in PR and marketing communications
• Real-time risk management using AI-driven simulations
• Next-gen metrics for influencer marketing
• Crisis readiness in an era where news moves at lightning speed
• Career advice for future-proofing yourself in a shifting media landscape

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jeff Hahn’s Background and Agency Focus [02:03]

• Jeff Hahn introduces himself as Principal of Hahn, a 45-person agency specializing in energy/power and health/nutrition ("a heating and eating agency").
• His specialization: crisis communication, frequently dealing with unexpected events across both sectors.

2. Ethical Considerations of AI in PR/Marketing [03:24]

Jeff outlines three major concerns:

• Human Mimicking & Deception:
  • “When AI is able to impersonate humans so well, it’s important… that we’re transparent and we disclose that we are using AI.” [03:35]
  • Trust and transparency are paramount.
• Privacy & Data Ethics:
  • Worries about excessive behavioral tracking and AI ingesting vast amounts of data without consent.
  • Suggests more regulation is imminent.
• Sustainability/Energy Consumption:
  • “A query into an LLM uses about 10x the power of a standard query… That power demand has shifted the narrative in the energy industry from climate crisis to power shortage.” [04:07]
  • AI’s resource demands are an underappreciated ethical issue.

Memorable Quote:

“Trust is really at the crux of all these.” – Jeff Hahn [03:46]

3. AI Opportunities in Crisis PR [06:52]

• AI’s greatest immediate use: crisis prediction and scenario simulation.
• Shift from mere rapid response to anticipating crises and preparing detailed, immersive scenarios.
• AI shrinks the gap between “possibility and probability,” allowing more precise preparedness.

Memorable Quote:

“AI is going to close that gap… and allow for immersion scenarios that’ll make you cry, they’re so realistic.” – Jeff Hahn [07:13]

• Playbooks will transition from static documents to dynamic, AI-enabled risk management tools.

4. Influencer Marketing: Rethinking Metrics & Trust [10:03]

• Moving beyond follower counts and engagement rates.
• Advocates for measuring “earned media crossover”—did an influencer help make news or build trust for the brand?
• Focus on outcomes (trust, newsworthiness), not just outputs.
• We are in a low-trust era: using trusted influencers can help brands “borrow” credibility.

Memorable Quote:

“If you shift that power from message over to the messengers with influencers, you’ve got yourself the right play for this era… you’re borrowing from that influencer’s trust reservoir.” – Jeff Hahn [11:20]

• Their data science team is exploring new, layered metrics and real-time dashboards for influencer impact.

On Backfires & Risk Mitigation [13:00]

• Not all campaign backlash is negative (“Is a backfire a bad thing?”).

• Cites the American Eagle/Sydney Sweeney example—negative attention boosted stock price.

• Cites the Solo Stove/Snoop Dogg misalignment—no sales lift, executives ousted.

• Advice:

  • Define success before the campaign.
  • Align influencer metrics with desired business outcomes.

• “Knowing what success means is the first best defense against something going really wrong.” – Jeff Hahn [14:37]

5. Crisis Communications in a Real-Time World [16:49]

• Speed is the #1 challenge in modern crisis response.
• Most brands are too slow because their rapid response teams aren’t ready or don’t know their roles.
• Example: Astronomer’s quick pivot using Gwyneth Paltrow for a PR response.

Memorable Quote:

“The old saying is a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth gets its pants on… imagine today.” – Jeff Hahn [17:10]

6. Lessons from “Breaking Bad News” (Jeff’s Book) [19:01]

• You can’t always predict when a crisis will strike, but you can know your response options.
• His book articulates four types of options:
  • Holding Statements (4 types)
  • Messaging Options (16 types)
  • Choice of Messenger (7 options)
  • Media/Channel Outlets (12 options)
• Flexibility (options) beats rigid answers; enables quick, tailored response under pressure.

“Options are much better than answers because good judgment has to lead the way when the pressure’s on.” – Jeff Hahn [20:09]

7. Future of PR & Communications [20:46]

• Massive consolidation: From ~50 major media companies in 2000 to just six today. Syndication makes news spread faster and wider.
• Real-time analytics have become essential for PR practitioners—no more waiting for weekly/monthly reports.
• Fragmented media landscape: Podcasts, niche audiences—PR is increasingly about targeting micro-communities, not just big news outlets.

“Now a PR practitioner isn’t pitching a reporter, they’re pitching over into an audience, into a podcaster like you.” – Jeff Hahn [22:14]

• AI’s role in PR pitching: simulating pitches and tailoring outreach based on audience/podcaster data.

8. Career Advice for Young Professionals [24:21]

• AI is eliminating entry-level roles (“destroying the bottom rung of the career ladder”).
• Importance of resilience and proactivity:
  • “Raise your hand. Find ways to put yourself in the most difficult situations that no one else wants to be in.”
  • These tough experiences build unique value and grit.

“No one wants to play catcher… And you get two benefits from that: good experience and you build resiliency.” – Jeff Hahn [24:38]

9. Staying Agile – Jeff’s Personal Practice [26:17]

• He avoids news media and instead reads extensively (2–3 hours/day).
• Deep reading brings context and pattern recognition not found in sound bites—keeps him nimble and informed.

“In reading, I’m able to really digest a lot more information and then find a pattern. So it really helps me stay nimble and agile…” – Jeff Hahn [26:39]

Notable Quotes

• “Trust is really at the crux of all these.” – Jeff Hahn [03:46]
• “AI is going to close that gap… and allow for immersion scenarios that’ll make you cry, they’re so realistic.” – Jeff Hahn [07:13]
• “If you shift that power from message over to the messengers with influencers, you’ve got yourself the right play for this era.” – Jeff Hahn [11:20]
• “Options are much better than answers because good judgment has to lead the way when the pressure’s on.” – Jeff Hahn [20:09]
• “No one wants to play catcher… And you get two benefits from that: good experience and you build resiliency.” – Jeff Hahn [24:38]
• “In reading, I’m able to really digest a lot more information and then find a pattern. So it really helps me stay nimble and agile…” – Jeff Hahn [26:39]

Important Timestamps

• 02:03 — Jeff Hahn's background and agency focus
• 03:24 — Top ethical concerns about AI in communications
• 06:52 — AI’s current and future use in crisis prediction and simulation
• 10:03 — Key influencer metrics, trust building, and “earned crossover”
• 13:00 — Handling influencer campaign backfires and risk mitigation
• 16:49 — Essential steps in reacting to a PR crisis in real-time
• 19:01 — Core framework from "Breaking Bad News"
• 20:46 — Trends shaping the next 2-3 years in PR/Comms
• 24:21 — Career advice for new professionals
• 26:17 — Staying agile through deep reading, not just media monitoring

Tone and Language

• Conversational, expert-driven, with strategic, actionable insights and real-world anecdotes
• Friendly exchange between Greg and Jeff, laced with a sense of urgency and optimism about future communications challenges

For listeners seeking a masterclass in real-time brand reputation management, this episode delivers actionable takeaways for leveraging AI ethically, maximizing influencer ROI, and staying resilient and agile in a fragmented, fast-moving media world.