← The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX
The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX
#750: The strength of physical marketing in the digital age with Corin Mills, Moo
00:24:38
Loading summary
Transcript48 lines
- [00:01]
Corin Mills
The Agile Brand.
- [00:10]
Greg Kilstrom
Welcome to Season seven of the Agile Brand where we discuss the trends and topics marketing leaders need to know. Stay curious, stay agile and join the top enterprise brands and martech platforms as we explore marketing, technology, AI, e commerce, and whatever's next for the omnichannel customer experience. Together we'll discover what it takes to create an agile brand built for today and tomorrow and built for customers, employees and continued business growth. I'm your host Greg Kilstrom, advising Fortune 1000 brands on martech, AI and marketing operations. The Agile Brand Podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, an industry leader in full stack technology services, talent services and real world application. For more information, go to teksystems.com to make sure you always get the latest episodes, please hit subscribe on the app you listen to podcasts on and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. Now onto the show. With all the fragmentation in the media landscape, how can brands cut through the digital noise and create meaningful connections with.
- [01:14]
Interviewer/Host
Their customers without resorting to yet another intrusive pop up?
- [01:18]
Greg Kilstrom
Ad agility requires not only adapting to changing consumer behaviors, but also proactively anticipating them. It demands a willingness to experiment with.
- [01:28]
Interviewer/Host
New channels and tactics, even those that.
- [01:30]
Greg Kilstrom
Might be considered traditional. Today we're going to talk about the surprising resurgence of physical marketing in the.
- [01:35]
Interviewer/Host
Digital age and how it can be.
- [01:37]
Greg Kilstrom
A powerful tool for building brand loyalty and driving business growth. To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome Corin Mills, Brand Marketing and E Commerce Director at moo. Corin, welcome to the show.
- [01:49]
Corin Mills
Hey Greg, great to be on.
- [01:50]
Interviewer/Host
Yeah, looking forward to talking about this with you. I'll say. I'm a customer, so a happy customer. So was looking forward to this to be able to talk with you about this stuff. Before we dive in though, why don't you give a little background on yourself.
- [02:03]
Greg Kilstrom
And your role at moo?
- [02:04]
Corin Mills
Yeah, sure. So I kind of sit at the heart of the brand marketing side and the brand side. So it's looking at the actual products that we offer, how we kind of bring them to market and kind of get across moo's strength and the different our beliefs as well and our opinions and then that's coupled with our main kind of consumer contact which is the site. So e commerce side of things. Yeah, but I kind of joined here about three years ago, but my background's been in branding, rebranding, marketing, advertising, a few different areas. So yeah, it's been nice to kind of come here and apply that to a company that's got a strong belief in brand at its heart. And yeah, it's been a great three years. I'm looking forward to many more.
- [02:49]
Interviewer/Host
Yeah, love it.
- [02:50]
Greg Kilstrom
So, yeah, let's dive in here.
- [02:52]
Interviewer/Host
And what I want to start with.
- [02:53]
Greg Kilstrom
Is just talking about.
- [02:55]
Interviewer/Host
I know that in my consulting work I deal a lot in the digital realm. And you know, part of the, part of the challenge is just kind of cutting through the clutter on digital channels. But you know, what we're talking about a lot here is physical marketing. And so with that clutter and just, you know, it seems like there's more channels popping up all the time on the digital front. How can physical marketing help brands to stand out and capture attention in a meaningful way?
- [03:23]
Corin Mills
Yeah, I think you mentioned kind of a resurgence in the intro and I think there's a couple of things. I think obviously like physical marketing has been around for many, many years, but I think for a number of years it was kind of a bit unloved and undervalued and cheap design. Cheap like kind of actual. The physical stock and the paper that was used, everything was kind of cheap. And it became a very like kind of sales mechanic or DM got basically a bad name. But what we have seen over the last few years is firstly, people have realized actually if you do things properly, it's an incredibly useful tool. But the other thing is the rise of E commerce, particularly post Covid when the only touch point that customer has with your brand is the box that arrives in their house. There's a huge resurgence on inserts that are beautiful that get across a story, not just a marketing message. So, yeah, it's been really fascinating to see that sector grow from labels to stickers to inserts to postcards. And it's been nice to see beautiful, beautiful design again on paper products.
- [04:25]
Interviewer/Host
Yeah, yeah. And that's, I mean it's a great point that. That's when it's the single kind of physical touch point that, that somebody has with a brand makes it even, even more valuable to, to both parties really, but you know, to the brand to get their message across.
- [04:41]
Greg Kilstrom
Can you maybe share a specific example.
- [04:44]
Interviewer/Host
Of a campaign where you've, you know, where MOO has utilized physical marketing to, to do just that?
- [04:50]
Corin Mills
Yeah, I think. Well, I can give you a couple of. I'll give you a new example of our own marketing, but before that there's a customer actually we work with to rise coffee kind of in the mushroom coffee market. Again, they're that company that the frequency of which they send customers products and their main touch point is that box. And so what they've been doing is kind of these beautiful bookmarks that are added value into the box just to create that connection with a customer. Even though 99% of the interactions are on site, you know, so digital. So it's been brilliant to work with them to create products that enhance their brand versus just their kind of need just to kind of get a sale message across there. And I think they're probably one of the best examples of a e commerce company using physical product well to bring a bit more loyalty into their and I think a bit more kind of desire and love into their brand for their customers. And I think what's kind of what's been nice at MOO over the last kind of two years we've grown our direct mail like we're a very tech based company. We're not just like old school print. It's about tech combined with production. And linking our own direct mail with our CRM data has been a brilliant way to kind of consistently get a message across to use the segmentation data we get from things like Braze and other kind of companies that we use. But apply that to a traditional media and it really means that we can give sneak peeks to certain customers that sale is coming so they can be quite promotion orientated or it can really just be a piece that we can send out samples of new products to customers on the back of one of our postcards. And what I love most is on the back of all of this is printed by new. So it's really us putting our kind of money where our mouth is. Yeah. And we are investing more because we are seeing stronger ROI in this media versus other. So yeah, it's been good to see.
- [06:54]
Greg Kilstrom
Yeah.
- [06:54]
Interviewer/Host
And I mean to both of those examples really there's this element of personality that comes through. I mean obviously with digital you can use video, you can use lots of elements there. But in the physical marketing world, I mean there's texture, there's color, there's different maybe ways of even shape. With digital we're constrained to a phone or a laptop screen or something. But there's a lot more possibility to infuse personality into the design. How should marketers be thinking about this aspect?
- [07:33]
Corin Mills
I think this applies to both digital and physical products and be that print products or applying your brand to gifting water bottles, etc. Sort of stuff we do for businesses, but also your digital. And like I was saying earlier, like the problem with say direct mail over the years is cheap Design and cheap investment has meant that it just wasn't hitting home and, and, and became a kind of a bad form of advertising. On, on. I, I see the same thing happening in digital. Like I think like the under investment in the quality of the design itself or thinking about the message or standout. And I think that the volume that you get from digital is great, but in some regards, but it's actually the thing that's holding you back because you don't, you, you know, you just spray this thing out there. And so I think my advice is like, like the number one is it's got to have a foundational brand system that's making sure that every time a customer touches one of your touch points, be that an advert online or be that physical media, it's recognizably you. And I think there's these clear signals that you can put in, be that font, be that color palette, be that logo, be that personality and all these kind of signals. So I think number one is having that strong brand system that joins together a brand across digital, across physical touch points. And I think number two is just that extra bit of care in the tone, in the copy, in the creative idea. It just amplifies performance and it is worth that extra step. And because we're in a business of performance in marketing and if you know your customers, you know what your core strengths are that resonate with them and you add that to your brand system and a creative idea, that's when you're in a good place. But unfortunately marketing can feel like, like I say, a volumes number. So you're just shoving stuff out as fast as possible and that's where it just becomes pointless. So my advice is strong brand systems and, and strong creative ideas. You just taking that little bit of extra time and craft.
- [09:38]
Interviewer/Host
Yeah, I mean it's one of those things where, you know, with, with the digital, you know, because it's easy, it's easy to just do what you're saying, which is kind of the spray and pray approach or whatever and not necessarily effective or memorable for, for, for customers. How should brands be thinking about that? Because I think the other thing you're saying here is just how important it is to have that cohesive experience across digital and print. Because again, digital is not going away either. So it's, it's, it's more about tying that together. Like is kind of rediscovering the physical and the print. What's happening now and what do digital marketers kind of need to understand about print and Vice versa.
- [10:23]
Corin Mills
Yeah, I think, I think it's much like kind of when brand teams work with social media team, they can get like, oh no, you have to be consistent and you have to be perfect. And it's like, well that just destroys the social media impact that then that has, I think. So the first thing for me is like embrace the channel opportunities, be that foil spot finish features, you know, play on the fact that customers got this in their hand and they'll turn it over and they'll do that. And, and so I think it's like really understand the medium first of all. And I think that's again, that's just general advice that we forget so often. We're like, we've designed the main investment, we'll cut that and we'll just lift and shift and apply across everything. It's, it's just pointless. So just take that bit of time to think about the medium and then secondly apply that brand system but don't let it constrain you in the creative idea that you can have and have some fun. You know, I think it doesn't need to be boring, doesn't need to be too like have a bit of fun with it just like you would in any digital channel as well. And I think sometimes the best campaigns are the ones that are a little bit more flippant maybe, but at the same time they're doing that great job of just putting a customer, you know, if you've got your right customer segment, you're putting your brand at the front of their mind and that, that in itself is a massive win.
- [11:47]
Interviewer/Host
And so you know, you, you had mentioned certainly there's, there was a lot of focus on that kind of, you know, unboxing experience in the, in the E commerce thing, particularly with the uptick with just Covid and post pandemic and stuff like that. And I, you know, I know there's video, there's unboxing videos and there's a whole, that's a whole rabbit hole to go down even. But beyond the unboxing experience because I know a lot of companies are focused on that, what are some other areas where brands should really be thinking about opportunities here and you know, opportunities where a company like Moo could, could be utilized.
- [12:23]
Corin Mills
I think there's, obviously it really does depend on your business and your customer group, but I think some of the areas where we're seeing big growth is the impact you can have outside of that event through just smart merch. So like we do pop ups where we give out our merch and that's. And that merch includes kind of useful but desirable objects. I think the, A lot of those events are just full of just rubbish, just like stuff that, you know, I feel like branded merch either ends up in the bin in a drawer or given to like someone's children. Like it's one of those three things. And I think just again, it's, it's that kind of like, less is more approach. And so what we're seeing successfully, what businesses are doing with some of our products is just that little bit more investment. Not giving out five different bits of merch, but giving out a really good quality notebook or a water bottle or something along those lines. And so, yeah, so the event space and gifting is a really big rise and we saw year on year gifting growing and there's this nice mix of collabs as well. So you've got kind of like good strong brands out there. I'll take drinkware market of the fellows of this world, the Stanleys of this world and that sort of thing. And then people being able to customize and personalize. It's a real, like, it's, it's a nice rewarding kind of gift to teams. It's not like the special gift, it's not the Rolex watch that some banks maybe give their kind of traders and that sort of thing, but it's just that genuinely useful and desirable gift sort of thing. So that's been one big area and then the other area actually is traditionally it's like business cards, but they're used in so many different ways. And so the coffee shop stamps, the ticket pricing or this sort of thing, if you think about, it's basically a square that you apply a bit of creativity to and you can do anything. And so it's been brilliant to see a bit of a resurgence there of kind of how they've been used in physical retail and different bits as well.
- [14:17]
Interviewer/Host
Nice, nice. And then to go to the unboxing experience, what are maybe some. I know there is a lot of focus on this, but what are maybe either some unexpected things or missed opportunities from your perspective that brands should be thinking about? Because, you know, again, that's a critical, it's a critical part of the E commerce experience.
- [14:38]
Corin Mills
We've got a bit of a project going on now actually, because I think the first point is the packaging itself. I think so many. I understand why, because logistically it's a complex piece. It takes time you need, you know, but we're vertically integrated here, so we make the products we pack, you know, and ship and the vast majority of our product. And so don't forget the packaging. Like it really is that first touch point and that's the transit packaging as well. And when you've got beautiful design from that first moments in your hand, it really is an incredibly strong impression. I think the second piece actually is we have this thing about like does your brand pass the laptop test? And it's like these die cuts kind of stick a. We're just launching some die cut stickers at the moment. But like these stickers in box, like it's just, it's got no marketing message. You might even just not even put your logo on there. It might be like a nice strong like line or something funny, something to put a smile on your face, but just giving out something that you would want yourself. And I think that's the thing, I think so often inserts and pieces, throw it into a box. They're all about the brand's need to sell more and actually think about something different, something that inspires a bit more. Because I think that is a perfect opportunity. So I would say rather than treating it as a kind of sales driver, treat it as a retention strategy and think about just a simple stuff and doing it really in a fun, fun way. Yeah.
- [16:02]
Interviewer/Host
And I mean those, those inspirational things, I mean they have the potential to get shared with other. You know, I, I remember, I don't remember everything but I remember some of those and they stick with me and or so I either share that with somebody else or I remember it and I reorder because it's, it's something different and memorable.
- [16:21]
Greg Kilstrom
Right?
- [16:22]
Corin Mills
Yeah. And like, you know, there's a reason why unboxing videos are so popular, right. It's because there is an emotional moment that's happening there. So if you can get it right at that point it's, you're. It's a win. Win.
- [16:34]
Interviewer/Host
Yeah, definitely. So for some of those brands out there that maybe smaller E commerce brands, certainly there's a lot of those as well that have limited budgets. What are some strategies for incorporating high quality design and high quality materials and still not breaking the budget?
- [16:53]
Corin Mills
Yeah, I think I'm just trying to not cover some of the stuff we've said. But I do think if you are an E commerce brand and you're growing, you're small and that sort of thing, I think firstly the great news is that you can do stuff and you can start to measure it. Because at the heart, the heart of marketing is that you do things you need to measure it and work out the value. Now there's some stock you can't necessarily. And it just borbs part of that kind of piece. But I think my first point would be less is more. So don't try and do too much and yeah, focus on one or two things and don't necessarily like translate your need, which might be, I want that customer to buy again or I want them to refer a friend or something like that, but link it to a customer need. And I think by doing that and then looking at some of the more simpler items, like I say, actually business cards that you can buy in a high volume but use in a different way, you can actually use some products with some. A few special finishes that really have a standout and one or two of those in a box, versus a ton of collateral and a ton of things like that. And that's better. I think the big thing for me is, and you see most challenger brands do this as well, which is it's not just new and more stuff, it's looking at what you're doing and like just those little. Your copy that's on your packaging, the little like the reveal when you open a box, like, look inside and those sorts of moments. And even like there was a telco in the UK that did this a while ago, but at the bottom of their T's and C's on a billboard advert, it just said, thank you for reading this, you've made our legal team happy. And it was hidden. No one spotted it, but a few people did. But that to me is a perfect example of using an existing asset. There's no extra cost, but you've just got a heap of brand personality out there. So, yeah, finding those little moments and maybe the mundane, the 404 page of your site, that's where you can actually have a bit of.
- [18:50]
Interviewer/Host
Yeah, yeah, well. And I think the other thing that at least some of those touch on is just the importance of going through the customer's experience, you know, actually unboxing your own stuff, you know, instead of. I think it's. It's one thing to, you know, design and think of cool ideas and stuff, it's a whole other thing to literally go through that process. Right, so how important is that to think through?
- [19:16]
Corin Mills
Oh, it's, it's massive, you know, and I mentioned telco. I've worked with telcos before. But when this is a bad thing, by the way, like, basically when you work for a telco, you never buy a phone, you get given a Phone. Right. So you never go in the shop, you never experience it. You never have to talk through tariffs and how complex they are. That's not good. You need to know what your customer is going through. And so whatever business you are, you really need to order your product, receive it, understand it. And I think by knowing your own limitations and where the problems are, one, you'll hopefully fix the problems but two, you will really, really drive. Like those little opportunities that I was talking through before, but definitely getting into like not just talking about the customer journey. Being a customer is no matter what industry in is critical.
- [20:07]
Interviewer/Host
Yeah, yeah.
- [20:08]
Corin Mills
Love it.
- [20:08]
Interviewer/Host
Well, Corin, thanks so much for joining today. One last question for you before we wrap up. What do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?
- [20:18]
Corin Mills
I think people often mix up agile, as in like complete change all the time. And I think the thing that helps me stay kind of like on my feet and turn around stuff quickly stay agile and all of those sorts of things is just those strong foundations. Once you've got a good brand system, once you know your customers, once you know your pricing strategy and all of those kind of the four P's and you know, get your strategy in order to it allows you to speed things up so much more. So when a problem comes in or an opportunity, you know exactly which direction to go in. So I think unfortunately it is do that hard work first. You've got to, you know, there's no quick win here. So it is have the foundation and then yeah, it's so much easier just to quickly know what the right thing to do is. Yeah. Yeah.
- [20:59]
Interviewer/Host
Love it. Well, again I'd like to thank Corin Mills, brand marketing and E Commerce director at MOO for joining the show. You can learn more about Corin and.
- [21:06]
Greg Kilstrom
MOO by following the links in the show notes. Thanks again for listening to the Agile brand brought to you by Tech Systems. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show as well. You can access more episodes of the show@theagilebrand.com that's theagile brand.com and contact me if you're interested in consulting or advisory services or are looking for a speaker for your next event, go to www.greg kilstrom.com that's G R E G K I H L S t r o m.com the Agile brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively fueled production co op from ideation to creation. They craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and stay agile.
- [22:04]
Corin Mills
The Agile Brand.
- [22:09]
Tech Systems Sponsor
Before we continue, I wanted to share a key strategic resource that a majority of the Fortune 500.
- [22:14]
Interviewer/Host
Are already aware of.
- [22:16]
Tech Systems Sponsor
Finding the best technology, business and talent solutions is not easy. With business demands and competitive pressures mounting, you need to be able to design, deploy and optimize your technology to provide leading customer experiences while driving business growth. Those of you that have been listening to the show for a while know that this podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, a global provider of technology, business and talent solutions. For more than 80% of the Fortune 500. Tech Systems accelerates business transformation for their customers. Whether you're looking to maximize your technology roi, drive business growth, or elevate customer experiences, Tech Systems enables enterprises to capitalize on change. Learn more@techsystems.com that's teksystems.com now let's get back to the show.