Podcast Summary

The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX

Episode #759: Transcend's Phyllis Fang on Personalization Utilizing Data Privacy by Design
Date: October 30, 2025
Guest: Phyllis Fang, Head of Marketing at Transcend
Host: Greg Kihlström

Overview

This episode tackles the central paradox in modern marketing: the growing demand for AI-powered, laser-focused personalization, contrasted with increasingly stringent data privacy regulations and evolving consumer expectations. Greg Kihlström and Phyllis Fang explore how brands can bridge this gap, treat privacy as a strategic advantage (not just a compliance hurdle), and operationalize trust to unlock long-term customer value.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction to Personalization vs. Data Privacy (00:10–06:09)

• Phyllis Fang introduces herself and Transcend, which specializes in data permissioning to empower safe, privacy-forward growth initiatives for major brands.
• She draws from experience in e-commerce and Uber, highlighting constant tension between rapid growth and trust-building.
• Key Insight: Every digital growth initiative—be it D2C, retail media, or AI—relies on first- and zero-party data that is ethically sourced and properly governed.
  • Quote (Phyllis Fang, 05:39):
    “Within every modern growth initiative…personal data must be consented to, it must be ethically collected and then properly governed downstream in order to even make these really cool, sexy digital projects and growth initiatives possible.”

2. Why Traditional Segmentation Falls Short (07:13–08:45)

• The old marketing playbook of broad segmentation is outdated; today’s consumers expect authentic, pinpoint personalization and are quick to recognize shallow tactics.
• Digital echo chambers and AI-driven creative output have reduced shared cultural touchpoints, making "spray and pray" approaches ineffective.
  • Quote (Phyllis Fang, 07:28):
    “We were all sold this very shallow version of personalization which was just like ‘hi first name, nice to see that you work at company.’ That is not personalization. Today’s consumers are digitally savvy and they expect a lot more.”
• Transcend's recent research found only 42% of organizations use preference data to personalize, signaling huge untapped opportunity.

3. The Shadow Data Problem and Trust (09:44–11:14)

• "Shadow data" refers to information collected without proper oversight or clear use case, often siloed and ungoverned.
• Both over-permissioning (overusing data beyond consent) and under-permissioning (not leveraging available, consented data) create risk and lost opportunity.
  • Quote (Phyllis Fang, 10:44):
    “Customers are smart now. They know when personalization is shallow...but they also can instinctively sense when brands overreach or mishandle data…and that leads to far graver consequences. Opt outs, churn, blocking ads—that just kills personalization at the source.”

4. Bridging the Personalization Expectation Gap (11:14–13:34)

• Stats: 71% of consumers see personalization as critical, but only 34% think brands deliver (Adobe data).
• First Steps for Marketers:
  • Audit and map all data touchpoints and preference collection moments.
  • Deeply integrate consumer choices into the martech stack (CRM, AdTech, etc.) to honor preferences in real time and across channels.
• Human error & manual processes (CSV files!) are common but inadequate.

5. Rethinking the Value Exchange (13:40–16:28)

• Tangible value must exist for consumers in exchange for their data.
• Examples:
  • Personalized rewards (e.g., Sephora matching recommendations to profile)
  • Financial apps offering actionable credit insights for sharing transaction data
  • Utility: seamless cross-device experiences, wishlists, transaction history continuity
  • Quote (Phyllis Fang, 14:34):
    “This is where you’re able to build really valuable, meaningful and personalized experiences...that’s real utility. It’s not just being marketed to in a better way.”

6. From Privacy as Risk to Privacy as Opportunity (16:58–21:00)

• Most marketers consider privacy as a late-stage compliance checkbox; true value comes from building it in from the start.
• Over-permissioning and under-permissioning both have significant business costs (regulatory, consumer trust, wasted ad spend).
  • Quote (Phyllis Fang, 17:45):
    “Under-permissioning is actually leading to a huge opportunity cost. You’re not able to market to an additional audience or you need to do more generalized marketing...that’s wasted ad spend, that’s not great.”
• Marketers should reframe privacy investments as core to expanding addressable audiences and increasing LTV.

7. Harnessing AI for Personalization—With Consent (21:01–23:33)

• AI promises to deliver the granular personalization marketers dream of, but creates more complex data trails further removed from the original point of consent.
• "Do not train" preferences are emerging as key (e.g. opting out of using one’s data for model training).
  • Quote (Phyllis Fang, 22:44):
    “It’s going to be less around ‘oh, I accept cookies’ to understanding if your data is being used to train your own experience...or a larger model. Consumers will want—and get—more granular choices.”

8. Organizational Collaboration: CMOs, CIOs, and Beyond (23:44–25:46)

• Successful data-driven personalization demands cross-functional alignment:
  • CIO/IT: Ensure data is discoverable, governable, interoperable.
  • CISO/Privacy: Ensure ethical collection, security, and regulatory compliance.
  • CMO: Translate data into value, advocate for data needs upstream.
  • Quote (Phyllis Fang, 24:08):
    “The companies that do this well will have leaders who are able to speak each other’s languages and ensure tight partnership throughout.”

9. The Future Consumer Reality (25:47–27:08)

• The future holds a dual reality: AI-powered personalization will proliferate, but empowered consumers will demand more transparency and control.
  • Quote (Phyllis Fang, 26:28):
    “It’s going to be a dual reality...AI automating personalization is a train that’s out of the station, but consumers are increasingly demanding more controls and transparency...And it’ll be on enterprises to clearly communicate and honor those choices.”

10. Staying Agile as a Marketing Leader (27:10–28:08)

• Staying agile requires intentional “fallow time” to think, digest, and marinate on insights—sometimes via walks or non-digital activities.
  • Quote (Phyllis Fang, 27:21):
    “You need the fallow time...to really just let it percolate and crystallize into actual projects or original thoughts.”

Notable Quotes

• “Within every modern growth initiative…personal data must be consented to, ethically collected, and properly governed.”
  — Phyllis Fang, 05:39

• “We were all sold this shallow version of personalization—‘hi first name’—but today’s consumers expect a lot more.”
  — Phyllis Fang, 07:28

• “Customers can instinctively sense when brands overreach…and that leads to far graver consequences. Opt outs, churn...kills personalization at the source.”
  — Phyllis Fang, 10:44

• “It’s going to be less around ‘I accept cookies’ to understanding if your data is being used to train your own experience, or a larger model...”
  — Phyllis Fang, 22:44

• “The companies that do this well will have leaders who can speak each other’s languages and ensure tight partnership.”
  — Phyllis Fang, 24:08

Important Timestamps

• 02:32 – Phyllis Fang introduces her background and Transcend’s role
• 07:13 – Why the old segmentation playbook fails today
• 09:44 – The concept and risks of shadow data
• 11:42 – First strategic steps for bridging the personalization gap
• 13:40 – The critical value exchange for consumers
• 16:58 – Privacy as a business opportunity, not just risk mitigation
• 21:01 – Operationalizing AI-powered personalization with data privacy
• 24:08 – The convergence of CMO, CIO, CISO roles
• 26:28 – Dual reality of AI-powered personalization and consumer control
• 27:21 – Phyllis’s personal approach to staying agile

Final Takeaways

• Building genuine personalization requires deep integration of privacy and user preference signals into the core of the martech stack.
• Privacy, executed well, expands business opportunity through increased trust and addressable audiences—beyond mere risk mitigation.
• The next competitive advantage lies in delivering transparent, tangible value to consumers in exchange for their data and giving them control.
• Marketing leaders must cross organizational silos, keep learning, and continuously advocate for the strong data foundations needed for success.