The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®

Episode #763: Pega CTO Don Schuerman on How AI Can Pay Down Tech Debt and Accelerate Digital Transformation
Release Date: November 6, 2025
Guest: Don Schuerman, CTO & Head of Marketing, Pega
Host: Greg Kihlström

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the evolving role of AI—specifically "agentic AI"—in transforming enterprise operations, with a unique emphasis on untangling and modernizing legacy technology. Don Schuerman, CTO at Pega, joins host Greg Kihlström to discuss how AI can pragmatically address technical debt, foster collaboration between business and IT, and speed innovation without disruptive rip-and-replace strategies. The conversation moves beyond AI hype, exploring practical applications, governance, and human-AI collaboration in large organizations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Agentic AI (02:23–05:58)

• Agentic AI Defined for Marketers:

  • Schuerman describes "agents" as advanced, AI-powered software capable of multi-step, human-like reasoning but still fundamentally “just software.”
  • The strategic value is in using agents to design, execute, and optimize workflows and customer personalizations.
  • Practical applications: driving retention, upsell/cross-sell, and new customer acquisition.

  Quote:

  “How can I use agents to design, to execute and to ultimately optimize the workflows that fulfill...my customer's request. But also those moments of personalization that allow me to engage better with my customer...”
  — Don Schuerman (06:35)

2. AI Hype vs. Pragmatism: The Right Tool for the Task (07:01–09:04)

• Generative AI Limitations:

  • Large Language Models (LLMs) are powerful but unpredictable; they may hallucinate or provide inconsistent outputs.
  • Not suitable for mission-critical or regulated tasks requiring reliability.

  Memorable Example:

  • Schuerman attempted to get an AI agent to make a marketing video. The agent confidently strung him along, only to finally admit, “No, I can’t actually create the video,” highlighting current limitations.
    (08:45)

  Quote:

  “If you just try to deploy a bunch of large language models...they're hugely unpredictable...But certainly if you're trying to figure out whether or not you want to offer a customer a loan, you don't want the agent behaving in that level of unpredictability.”
  — Don Schuerman (08:15)

3. Agentic AI for Untangling Legacy Systems (10:21–13:41)

• AI to Modernize Decades-Old Technology:

  • Pega Blueprint uses AI agents to analyze assets (source code, process diagrams, even screen recordings) and rapidly prototype modern systems.
  • Blueprint accelerates collaboration between marketing/business leaders and IT by translating business requirements into actionable tech solutions.

  Quote:

  “We've even had clients who have taken screen cams...of people using mainframe systems and uploaded that into Blueprint. And Blueprint will reinvent those business processes buried in the mainframe application...”
  — Don Schuerman (12:24)

• Design-Time vs. Runtime AI:

  • Use LLMs and advanced reasoning at design-time to innovate and create processes, but constraining AI at runtime safeguards compliance, consistency, and cost.

4. Human-in-the-Loop & Governance (15:18–17:43)

• Striking the Human-AI Balance:

  • Practical use: AI generates first drafts or recommends offers, but humans review, tweak, and approve for all brand- or compliance-sensitive content.
  • Progression toward agents playing roles like brand or CFO agents—for monitoring and optimization—yet disagreements between “agents” still require human arbitration.

  Quote:

  “...sometimes the CFO agent and the brand agent are going to disagree. Right...just like your CFO and your head of brand probably disagree sometimes in real life.”
  — Don Schuerman (17:38)

5. New Metrics for Success & Continuous Transformation (18:03–20:35)

• Evolving Success Metrics:

  • Traditional marketing funnel KPIs remain important, but speed-to-market and responsiveness to change are the new critical markers.
  • AI enables faster adaptation—responding to fast-moving events (e.g., insurance offers and hurricane warnings).

  Quote:

  “How quickly am I able to bring new ideas to market? How quickly am I able to empower my marketers to respond to change?...That ability to move quickly and to be in a continuous transformation mode is going to be...essential.”
  — Don Schuerman (18:41)

• Measuring ROI in the AI Era:

  • AI drastically reduces the need for manual analysis of legacy documentation, making tech modernization ROI much more realistic and measurable.

6. Human Roles, Team Structure, and the Future of Work (20:35–24:13)

• People Changes are Key:

  • Tech change is inevitable, but mindset shift among teams is often the biggest hurdle.
  • Creative professionals (e.g., copywriters) transition from fearing AI to using it as a scale lever—expanding individual impact across the business.

  Quote:

  “If you embrace these tools, they are scale tools, they allow you to increase your impact into areas you might not have thought before.”
  — Don Schuerman (22:24)

• Don’s View on “Managing” AI Agents:

  • Leaders inspire and develop people; AI is software to be configured and tested, not “managed” in the human sense.

  Quote:

  “You manage people...AI is software. You configure software, you code software, you test software, you validate software, you upgrade software. It’s different.”
  — Don Schuerman (23:22)

7. Looking Ahead: Risks, Agility, and Personal Growth (24:13–25:55)

• Predictions for the Next Year:

  • Schuerman expects “major news stories of agents gone rogue...impacting brands in bad ways,” prompting deeper board- and C-level scrutiny of AI governance. (24:25)

• Staying Agile as a Leader:

  • Push into uncomfortable, unfamiliar domains to keep learning and evolving.
  • “AI and agents—it is a hands-on revolution...the more you put your hands on this technology, the better you’re going to be able to lead your teams.” (24:55)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Agentic AI Realism:

  “I think that's the first time I've heard a media influencer describe agentic AI as practical, so I'm excited for this conversation.”
  — Don Schuerman (02:23)

• On Mainframe Persistence:

  “They're still there, man...mainframes are still in use. We've got a client...they have 200 Lotus Notes applications still like running the business.”
  — Don Schuerman (13:41)

• On Future Risks:

  “I think within a year there will be some pretty major news stories of agents gone rogue and impacting brands in bad ways.”
  — Don Schuerman (24:25)

• On Leadership in the AI Era:

  “It is a hands-on revolution...in order to lead your team through it, you actually have to have hands-on experiences with these tools.”
  — Don Schuerman (24:55)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Introduction and Setting Up Agentic AI – 00:01–05:58
• AI Practicality, Hype, and GenAI Limitations – 07:01–09:04
• Agentic AI for Legacy Modernization (Blueprint) – 10:21–13:41
• Design-Time AI vs. Runtime & Governance – 13:41–17:43
• Measurement & ROI in AI Transformation – 18:03–20:35
• Human Roles and Team Evolution – 20:35–24:13
• Risks, Agility & Personal Growth for Leaders – 24:13–25:55

Overall Tone & Takeaway

The episode strikes an optimistic yet pragmatic tone, debunking overblown AI promises while illuminating real use cases and strategic approaches. Schuerman frames agentic AI as a practical solution—one that reframes creativity, accelerates transformation, bridges business-IT divides, and elevates human contribution. However, he cautions against both complacency and unchecked automation, calling for hands-on leadership, thoughtful governance, and continual learning.

For deeper insights and demos (like Pega Blueprint), visit pega.com/blueprint.