Podcast Summary:

The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®
Episode #771: Design Systems as a Digital Transformation Catalyst with Nigel Dennis, The Office of Experience
Date: November 20, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the pivotal role of design systems in driving digital transformation. Greg Kihlström is joined by Nigel Dennis, Executive Creative Director at the Office of Experience (OX), to discuss why traditional design system thinking is holding businesses back, the mental shifts required to unlock their power, how to overcome cross-functional silos, and the practical steps and KPIs for leveraging design systems as true catalysts for innovation and agility.

Nigel highlights how elevating design systems from static rulebooks to dynamic, collaborative frameworks empowers teams, accelerates speed to market, and sustains long-term business growth—challenging many widespread misconceptions in the process.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Nigel Dennis’s Background and OX’s Approach

• Nigel's experience: Over 20 years in creative industries; transitioned from traditional illustration to digital, bringing a resourceful, adaptable approach.
• OX’s ethos: Specializes in B2B (manufacturing, distribution, etc.), thrives on solving nuanced problems for clients, values adaptability and building expertise to meet evolving challenges.
  • “There's nuance that deserves exploration and understanding... our team is willing to create specialty amongst itself.” (03:25, Nigel Dennis)

2. Redefining Design Systems: Foundational Flaws and Hidden Costs

• Common flaw: Most design systems merely extend basic brand guidelines—focusing on fonts, colors, logos—without deeper consideration for scalability or meaningful foundations.
• Missing intent & afterthought: Digital aspects are often afterthoughts, leading to rigid, inefficient systems that stifle innovation.
  • “Sometimes in most brand guidelines, the digital parts of those brand guidelines are an afterthought... preparing for scale over time is ultimately the goal.” (05:18, Nigel Dennis)

3. Essential Mental Shifts: From Constraint to Enablement

Three Key Shifts:

• 1. From Constraint to Enablement:
  Design systems should empower, not restrict: “We often look at a set of rules and say, no, we can't do that... there are more than enough tools at our disposal to say anything is possible.” (06:44, Nigel)
• 2. Encouraging Cross-functional Fluency:
  True progress happens when designers think like engineers and vice versa.
  • “Forcing our designers to... be empathetic to what [engineers] are up against... vision is a big glaring gap in a lot of teams, and internal, at agency level.” (08:18, Nigel)
• 3. Shared Vision and Empathy:
  Collaboration needs a shared vision, not just process. Deep empathy and understanding between design and engineering unlock high performance.

4. Intelligent Foundations and Tokenization

• What are token systems?
  Leveraging tools like Figma to encode design decisions into modular, reusable tokens (for colors, font families, spacing, etc.) promotes consistency, efficiency, and rapid adaptation as brands evolve.
  • “When we put constraint and rules around the elements we're working with... not the vision... we create exponential possibility and making updates over time.” (10:18, Nigel)
• Example: Changing a primary brand color in one place auto-updates it everywhere, eliminating manual, error-prone tasks.

5. KPIs & Measuring Design System Success

• Beyond adoption & consistency: Evaluate speed to market, onboarding efficiency, system scalability, and ability to support brand growth across products and platforms.
  • “Your team… is no longer kneecapped by not having the flexibility of a design system... There's all measure of efficiency. That's the name of the game here.” (15:59, Nigel)

6. How to Get Started: A Practical Week 1 Playbook

• Start with advocacy: Identify passionate “self-starters” from both design and engineering—empowered to drive, champion, and co-own the system.
• Symbiotic partnerships: Mirroring old writer-designer agency pairs, designers and engineers should form empathetic, symbiotic teams to establish a common vision.
  • “The first step is identifying those people who can be advocates... [for] the success of that system... it's really about finding the right team that's passionate...” (18:06 & 21:04, Nigel)
• Start small: Pilot on a feature level and grow as wins accumulate.

7. Design Systems for B2B Complexity

• Modern B2B needs user-centricity: Customers crave the same seamlessness as in B2C; flexible design systems allow intricate B2B ecosystems (endless SKUs, user roles) to deliver on this.
  • “The idea of a B2C versus B2B experience, that line is incredibly blurred... We do it by creating the sort of smart foundations. [Clients] don’t want to spend a bunch of money, you know, redesigning their website every... years...” (22:05, Nigel)
• Legacy pain: Many brands are trapped by rigid systems that can’t evolve; flexible design systems help companies outmaneuver inflexible competitors.

8. The Future: Designers Who Code

• Next year’s trend: Emergence of “designer / engineer” hybrids enabled by tools like Figma, Framer, Webflow.
  • “I think you're going to start to see designer slash engineer show up... bridging that gap is ultimately powerful.” (24:27, Nigel)
• Skill blending: Expect job descriptions to evolve beyond specialist silos.

9. Staying Agile as a Leader

• Continuous learning:
  “The best way to stay agile is to assume I know nothing... Bringing that instinct and gut feeling to the problems that I don't know how to solve... and waiting for people who are much smarter than me guide me...” (26:09, Nigel)
• Empower others: The key to agility is helping those around you thrive, and being last to speak so great ideas surface.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Digital guidelines are an afterthought. Sometimes we kind of accept that afterthought and paint by numbers… but we need deeper, more meaningful foundations.” — Nigel Dennis (05:18)
• “Anything is possible. Enable teams to understand intent… create pathways for people to succeed instead of trying to work through them.” — Nigel Dennis (06:44)
• “Vision is again… a big glaring gap in a lot of teams… understanding what we’re all building, what we’re working against and having that shared vision for the work is the key.” — Nigel Dennis (08:18)
• “When we put constraint and rules around the elements... not the vision... we create exponential possibility and making updates over time.” — Nigel Dennis (10:18)
• “Speed to market is obviously the biggest impact point... your team isn't hindered by not having the flexibility of a design system to support that.” — Nigel Dennis (15:59)
• “The first step is identifying those people who can be advocates... and make things happen... finding the right team that's passionate about seeing the success of the work.” — Nigel Dennis (18:06, 21:04)
• “The line between B2B and B2C experience is incredibly blurred... it should feel like it has the same flexibility and elegance of any other experience.” — Nigel Dennis (22:05)
• "I think you're going to start to see designer slash engineer show up in... these roles, which is my dream." — Nigel Dennis (24:27)
• “Assume I know nothing. That's how I stay agile... empower those around me to be successful.” — Nigel Dennis (26:09)

Quick Reference: Important Segment Timestamps

• [03:07] - Office of Experience’s problem-solving philosophy
• [05:18] - Fundamental design system flaws & “afterthought” issue
• [06:44] - Mental shift: From constraint to enablement
• [08:18] - Designer & engineer cross-functional empathy; shared vision
• [10:18] - Tokenization & intelligent foundations explained
• [15:59] - KPIs: Speed to market, efficiency, onboarding
• [18:06] - Week 1 framework for launching a design system
• [22:05] - B2B complexity and benefits of flexible design systems
• [24:27] - Future: Rise of designer/engineer hybrids
• [26:09] - How to stay agile as a creative leader

Conclusion

Nigel Dennis provides a forward-thinking perspective on transforming design systems from mere “rulebooks” to foundational, living assets for digital transformation. The conversation offers actionable insight for leaders seeking to drive innovation, foster cross-disciplinary collaboration, and sustain business growth in B2B and beyond.

Host: Greg Kihlström
Guest: Nigel Dennis, Executive Creative Director, The Office of Experience