A (3:07)

Nice, nice. And yeah, for those, for those listeners that aren't as familiar with Seal, maybe can you talk a little bit more? You know, what's the specific problem in the retail ecosystem that you're focused on solving and who's the ideal customer?

B (3:21)

Sure, sure. Seal is an AI powered post purchase platform that takes on the financial and operational burden of refunds and returns. Seal solves a massive problem as returns cost retailers 20 to 25% of revenue and it represents over a trillion dollar industry globally. For the consumer, Seal removes the uncertainty and makes returns simple, predictable and fast. And for the merchant, Seal reduces risks, cuts return related costs and turns the Post purchase from a cost center into a loyalty and retention driver. We have thousands of customers like Poshmark, Backcountry, Ru La La, Kai, Kylie Jenner, Kyte Baby. For us our ideal customers are mid market and enterprise e commerce brands and marketplaces that need flexibility without margin loss.

A (4:16)

Nice, nice. Well, yeah, let's dive in here and yeah, I mean anytime there's a trillion dollar problem, it's certainly worth discussing. Right. So let's dive in here and you know your, your team obviously in the, in the role that you play in the, in the industry. You're continually analyzing retail data and looking back at the last year and ahead to, you know, the holiday 2025 holiday insights so far. What's the one trend or shift in consumer behavior that surprised you the most or that maybe brands are most underestimating?

B (4:51)

Yeah, that's a great question, Greg. The trend that I'm noticing is really the scale of return growth. Seal's return on refund per merchant. We've seen it surge over by over 30% for the same cohort year over year. And I think that that spike reflects something deeper. Higher consumer anxiety like recession fears, job uncertainty, tighter budgets, more buyer's remorse. Consumers are double thinking, non essential purchases and even like a try before you buy that's now normalized which drives higher return volume even when products aren't defective. We did a consumer survey recently and it showed that 74% of shoppers would not make the purchase if it wasn't returnable. So for me my key takeaway here is that post purchase experience is now a core part of the buying decision and not an afterthought.

A (5:47)

Yeah, yeah. So you know, you mentioned some of the broader economic trends as well as some of the behavioral trends. You know, how are they impacting return rates? And maybe the nature of post purchase interactions. And is there a why behind return changing as much as the what people are buying?

B (6:09)

Yeah, inflation, tighter budgets and the buy now, pay later culture. It means that shoppers are more price sensitive and even more impulsive which is a combination that increases regret driven returns. I think that the why behind returns is shifting so it's less about defective items and more about uncertainty or expectation mismatch and second guessing. Shoppers want predictability like fast resolution, clarity on timing, no hidden risks. And this is why the return experience matters in all economic climates, even in a boom. Trust and predictability, that's what wins loyalty.

A (6:52)

Yeah, yeah. And so I want to get back to something that you mentioned earlier, which is this idea of turning returns into, you know, from a cost savings center to a growth engine and you know, just it, it sounds great but you know, it also sounds like is this, you know, how, how can this happen? You know, how can this actually be made practical? You know, what's, what's the first tangible operational step that a merchant can take to begin this shift of, you know, from pure liability to perhaps a strategic touch point for retention?

B (7:28)

Yes. Here's the P and L reality. The Average brand loses 17% of revenue to refunds and they spend another 8% on non shipping opex to operate their post purchase services. So that's a whopping 25% of top line revenue which is incredibly painful considering the top 100 public e commerce brands. They only operate at a 12% operating margin. So it's a really important problem to tackle. Seal changes the economics by taking on the financial risk, the customer support burden, the logistics and refund window. And that shift unlocks three practical wins. The first one is conversion lift so shoppers buy more when risk is removed. For example, let's take on final sale items. So we've all experienced that anxiety seeing a final sale item that we want. But I know I feel uncertain about buying because it's not returnable. So we provide returns for final sale items. Merchants get to offload inventory that they don't need, that they need to remove, but the consumer has the comfort of knowing that they can return that item. And the result is a final sale plus a return option that drives significantly higher conversion with no meaningful increase in return rates. The second area is higher aov. We lift purchase confidence and especially for mid priced items. And the third is lower operating expenses. We're able to shift the customer support burden from the retailer to seal and to share a little bit about that differentiation in action. Just a couple customer examples so with our partnership with Rue, Lala and Gilt Group, we started with things like return for product reason and now we'll be expanding into fit reasons so that shoppers can return for any reason. Or with Kai by Kylie Jenner they use our worry free purchase product to reinforce protection and trust. So returns can become a data engine, a trust builder, and ultimately a conversion lever, not just a cost.

A (9:36)

Yeah, yeah. And I mean it sounds like all of those things. I mean whether it's average order value, just building kind of building trust so that someone makes a purchase in the first place. I mean those are great to begin with. What's the role of technology in this transformation? Maybe specifically AI. And can you give an example of how data may be used in real time to create that revenue generating outcome from a potential potential return?

B (10:07)

Yeah, absolutely. AI is what makes returns predictable instead of chaotic, turning guesswork into data driven decisions. So for example, AI powers the customer experience. Instant decisions and instant refunds build trust and reduce friction. AI can turn returns from an unpredictable cost to a controlled revenue positive part of the business. At Seal, our AI enabled service aggregates trust, data and purchasing power across a large order base, allowing us to build infrastructure and technology that would be just too difficult or expensive for anyone whose entire business isn't running post purchase programs. Merchants just don't have access to that kind of volume of data.

A (10:54)

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B (13:45)

Yes, I talk to CFOs all the time. You know, as we've been discussing, retailers are cash constrained and every operational decision has to show real financial impact. So Seal's free to implement, there's no onboarding fees, no platform fees, and integration can take as little as a couple weeks. The business case becomes clearer when you look at the pl. Seal takes on that entire post purchase burden, the customer support, logistics and refunds. And the result is a measurable improvement across metrics that CFOs really care about. So, so higher AOV and conversion, increased repeat purchase rates, lower operational costs from return related support tickets, and that results in stronger profit margins. As a result, we see exceptionally low merchant churn. Because the financial lift is meaningful and consistent, we remove a major cost center while lifting top line revenue, which is why the ROI story lands with CFOs.

A (14:46)

Yeah, yeah. And so moving from those internal pressures, you know, the, the CFO pressures to the, the external ones, you know, as, as we all know, you know, there's shifting consumer expectations around everything from sustainability, convenience, regulatory landscapes, you know, continually shifting and, and Being rather complex. How are the most agile brands balancing these often competing demands within the returns process?

B (15:15)

Yes, this is something I'm really passionate about. I think the big biggest opportunity is in circularity. We need to ensure that returned items are resold and reused rather than being wasted and going to landfill. So what we do is when merchandise is returned, seal takes it in, processes it and resells it through marketplaces and listing sites. That extends the product life and reduces waste. I think this creates a win win. Consumers get a seamless, low friction return process. Merchants avoid waste, recover value and protect margins. And the industry can move towards more sustainable practices without sacrificing convenience. Transparency is also key. Clear options really build trust with consumers. Like longer keep windows, greener return routes, flexible policies. Regulation is increasingly pushing brands towards accountability. But the most agile brands will see this as an opportunity and not a burden. It's really an opportunity for differentiation here. Circularity plus clarity that equals sustainable returns that meet consumer expectations without hurting the bottom line.

A (16:33)

Yeah, and that point about the differentiation, I mean certainly there's returns and post purchase logistics. They may not be the most glamorous part of branding and marketing and yet there's a trillion dollar challenge here to overcome. So certainly a lot at stake. What do you see as the biggest moat or long term competitive advantage for brands that get returns on this post purchase logistics Right over the next three to five years?

B (17:05)

The moat is the consumer brands that, that, that deliver a frictionless trusted post purchase experience. They'll learn loyalty that money cannot buy. As I mentioned, return volume is rising and brands that make returns effortless will win repeat business when shoppers feel the most anxiety and uncertainty. And there's a compounding data advantage here. So every return generates insights into future forecasting, merchandising and the customer experience. And that advantage compounds over time. So when you solve for the consumer consistently and confidently, that is the moat.

A (17:49)

Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Well Laura, as we wrap up here, a couple last questions for you. If we were having this interview one year from now, what is one thing that we would definitely be talking about?

B (18:03)

Great question. Returns are becoming a core part of the circular economy. More, more brands, including secondhand platforms that typically have a no return policy. They'll introduce flexible return options to drive demand, loyalty and sustainability. Consumers will expect risk free shopping everywhere, not just on Amazon. Removing the risk from buying will reshape how merchants think about conversion, AOV and customer lifetime value. I think the winners here will be brands that turn post purchase from a cost center into that value loop.

A (18:41)

Well, Last question for you before we wrap up here. What do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?

B (18:50)

Yeah. Once again, thank you so much Greg for having me on the show today.

A (18:54)

Yeah, of course.

B (18:54)

For me, I'm a customer geek. I have spent my entire career building and obsessing over the customer. I study the customer experience everywhere, in stores, airports, in retail environments and I really look for the small details that will bring big, delightful moments. I stay close to customers, I travel often to meet merchants in person, and I'm constantly observing just how people shop, how they return, how they make decisions across generations and across regions. I think that generate generational insight is a real superpower. So a recent report from PwC said Gen Z is spending less but expecting more this holiday season. So one negative experience means that Gen Z is likely not coming back. So for me, I look to future generations, Gen Z and Gen Alpha. I think they're really redefining what good looks like and I like to watch those shifts closely to stay on my toes.

A (19:56)

Yeah, love it. Well again, I'd like to thank Laura Huddle, Chief Revenue Officer at Seal, for joining the show. You can learn more about Laura and Seal by following the links in the show notes. This show is sponsored by Seal, the AI powered post purchase platform that helps retailers turn returns into revenue while giving shoppers a more seamless, trusted experience. For more information, go to www.seal.com seals E-E-L.com thanks again for listening to the Agile Brand. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to subscribe and leave us a rating so that others can find the show as well. You can access more episodes of the show@theagilebrand.com that's theagile brand.com and contact me if you're interested in consulting or advisory services or are looking for a speaker for your next event, go to www.gregkilstrom.com that's G R E G K I H L S t r o m.com the Agile brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively fueled production co op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and and stay agile. Before we continue, I wanted to share a key strategic resource that a majority of the Fortune 500 are already aware of. Finding the best technology, business and talent solutions is not easy. With business demands and competitive pressures mounting you, you need to be able to design, deploy and optimize your technology to provide leading customer experiences while driving business growth. Those of you that have been listening to this show for a while know that this podcast is brought to you by Tech Systems, a global provider of technology, business and talent solutions for more than 80% of the Fortune 500. Tech Systems accelerates business transformation for their customers with Whether you're looking to maximize your technology ROI, drive business growth, or elevate customer experiences, TechSystems enables enterprises to capitalize on change. Learn more at techsystems.com that's T E K systems.com now let's get back to the show.