Podcast Summary: The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström® –

Episode #776: Black Friday Special: Zappi CMO Nataly Kelly on the High-Stakes World of Holiday Advertising
Date: November 28, 2025
Host: Greg Kihlström
Guest: Nataly Kelly, CMO at Zappi

Episode Overview

This Black Friday special dives into the world of holiday advertising, focusing on the delicate balance between creative storytelling and data-driven decision-making. Host Greg Kihlström and guest Nataly Kelly, CMO of consumer insights platform Zappi, use the iconic John Lewis Christmas ad as a jumping-off point to explore holiday campaign stakes, emotional resonance, differing US/UK ad styles, the role of AI, and the move toward connected insights for achieving both short- and long-term brand success.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cultural Importance of Holiday Advertising

• John Lewis Ads:
  • John Lewis' holiday ads are UK cultural events, akin to the Super Bowl in the US ([02:54]).
  • This year’s "Where Love Lives" spot is seen as a “return to form,” returning to highly emotional storytelling.
• Emotional Storytelling:
  • UK holiday ads have a ‘mini-movie’ arc, focusing on connection, family, and emotional resonance.
  • US holiday advertising is more transactional, fast-paced, focused on sales activation ([06:54]).

2. The "Where Love Lives" John Lewis Ad: Creative & Performance

• Nataly’s Description:
  • The ad follows a father and a son trying to reconnect as the son grows up, making small attempts to find the right words and ultimately, the right gift ([03:51]).
  • Line Highlight:
    • “If you can’t find the words, find the gift.” — John Lewis ad
  • Nataly: “It just hits on so many relatable notes for parents and for family relationships that I think it's a really strong, powerful ad.” ([04:26])
• Emotional Impact & Data:
  • Tested with 400 UK consumers using Zappi’s platform; scored in the 93rd percentile out of 1,100 tested UK ads.
  • Love as an emotional response was reported by 44% of viewers (vs. a norm of 22%) ([05:35]).
  • Greg: “I consider myself a relatively jaded ad marketing person… but I was not expecting to feel anything, to be honest.” ([05:10])

3. Comparing UK vs. US Holiday Advertising

• The UK emphasizes brand-building and heartfelt stories, while the US often focuses on short-term sales, reflecting broader cultural differences ([06:54]).
• UK Christmas ads = US Super Bowl ads in terms of national significance ([07:56]).

4. Strategic Missteps in Holiday Campaigns

• Too Trend-Driven:
  • Chasing fleeting trends rarely works due to long ad lead times and lack of lasting brand impact ([11:16]).
• Underinvestment in Brand Assets:
  • Missing opportunity to reinforce recognizable assets (e.g., Hershey Bells, Coca-Cola’s Santa).
• Overreliance on Data:
  • “You don’t want to take the data too literally… It’s a little bit of art and science. The magic comes from combining that with the creative instinct to really amplify what works.” ([12:13]) — Nataly Kelly

5. Deciding What Creative Has "Legs"

• There’s no single metric; key KPIs include purchase uplift, brand recall, emotional resonance, relevance, and uniqueness ([13:12]).
• Metrics should align to campaign objectives—brand building or immediate sales.
• Building longitudinal data assets helps spot learnings and trends unique to the brand ([14:14]).

6. Agile Brand-Building: Learning Over Testing

• Pre-testing helps uncover promising ideas and cut bad ones early.
• Ongoing measurement (brand tracking) is critical; monthly pulses give brands better visibility into what’s resonating ([17:11]).
• Nataly: “It’s less about killing the bad ideas, more about uncovering the good ones… so that you can build on them even further.” ([15:28])

7. Measuring Long-Term Emotional ROI

• “Market share follows mindshare.” Brand affinity requires time, but is the engine for sustainable growth ([17:11]).
• Modern, agile brand tracking makes measurement more accessible, actionable, and continuous ([17:42]).

8. The Imperative of Connected Insights

• Historically, ad/brand/product teams worked in silos, missing opportunities for cross-pollination of insights ([18:53]).
• Connecting insights enables transference of learnings (e.g., popular packaging elements informing creative) across initiatives.

9. The Role of AI in Advertising

• AI supports by:
  • Tracking trends
  • Testing ‘minimum viable ideas’ (MVIs)
  • Surfacing data patterns to inform creative development ([22:08])
• AI can be a “supporting function” without diluting brand identity if used wisely (see Coca-Cola ad case: 94/100 score on brand/sales impact, “love” emotion doubled the norm, but AI’s presence was “invisible” to the viewer) ([20:22]).
• Data fragmentation is the #1 blocker for effective AI use and unified strategy ([23:05]).

10. Advice to Marketing Leaders for 2026

• Unify Data:
  • “Data fragmentation is currently the biggest blocker reported by marketing teams and consumer insights teams…”
  • “How do we solve that? How do we connect our data and get it more aligned and get it so that we can leverage it and use AI to derive more value from it?” ([23:05])
• Adopt a Mindset of Agility:
  • Agile means iterating, experimenting, and learning continuously.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [03:51] Nataly Kelly:
  • “What I love about the UK Christmas ads is they do feel like a little bit like a mini movie… you get that satisfaction of resolution at the end.”
• [05:35] Nataly Kelly:
  • “Love is one of the emotions that we looked at. And the norm for love is 22%. It was reported by 44% of viewers. So that's double the typical response.”
• [11:37] Nataly Kelly:
  • “If brands are chasing trends, that tends to not work very well… You don’t want to be a flash in the pan. You want to be there consistently in their heads.”
• [12:13] Nataly Kelly:
  • “You don’t want to take the data too literally. It’s a little bit of art and science. The magic comes from combining that with the creative instinct…”
• [17:12] Nataly Kelly:
  • “Brand is really the key to long-term growth. You know that phrase: market share follows mindshare.”
• [22:08] Nataly Kelly:
  • “I think that's really where AI can make a big difference… AI can help you track those trends, AI can help you spot what are those minimum viable ideas…”
• [23:05] Nataly Kelly:
  • “Data fragmentation is currently the biggest blocker reported by marketing teams… We can't actually leverage AI to the degree we thought because our data's in all these silos…”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:01–02:23 – Introduction & Nataly’s background
• 03:51 – Description of John Lewis “Where Love Lives” ad
• 05:35 – Data insights from Zappi’s test of the ad
• 06:54 – UK vs. US ad culture
• 11:16 – Strategic mistakes: trend-chasing, underusing brand assets, data trap
• 13:12 – Metrics for creative “legs” and outcome alignment
• 15:28 – Agile process: Uncovering good ideas early
• 17:11 – Measuring long-term emotional ROI
• 18:53 – Connected insights across ad/brand/product
• 20:22 – AI’s growing (but supportive) role in creative development
• 22:08 – Minimum Viable Ideas (MVIs) and AI’s potential
• 23:05 – The data fragmentation imperative for 2026
• 24:26 – Nataly’s personal approach to staying agile

Conclusion

This episode unpacks the high expectations and intricate balancing acts behind holiday advertising, especially as it shifts into an era shaped by connected data, continual learning, and smart, supportive marketing AI. Nataly Kelly’s core message: The brands that will win are those willing to blend art and science, break data out of silos, and use agile insights to create powerful, emotional stories—measured not just for immediate sales but for long-term brand love.