Podcast Summary: The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®

Episode #794: LiveRamp CMO Jessica Shapiro on Building Brand Trust while Automating at Scale
Release Date: January 7, 2026
Host: Greg Kihlström
Guest: Jessica Shapiro, Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) at LiveRamp

Episode Overview

This episode explores the modern paradox faced by brands: as artificial intelligence (AI) enables near endless personalization and content creation, the true differentiator becomes the authenticity and trustworthiness of a brand. Jessica Shapiro, CMO of LiveRamp, joins Greg Kihlström to discuss how brands can build and measure trust while scaling AI-driven experiences, the intertwining of human and AI creativity, experimentation with new technologies, and the future skillset of marketing leaders.

Structure & Key Discussion Points

1. Introduction: The Paradox of AI and Brand (00:52–03:30)

• Theme: The increasing capabilities of AI in generating content and automating customer experiences have paradoxically amplified the importance of human-driven brand trust and differentiation.
• Host’s Perspective: True agility means integrating AI’s power without losing the “soul of the brand.”

Quote:

“In a world saturated with AI generated content, why does a strong, trusted brand suddenly become more critical than ever?”
— Greg Kihlström (03:30)

2. Jessica Shapiro’s Background and LiveRamp Overview (01:59–03:00)

• Career Arc:

  • Early experience in consumer marketing at Microsoft, Starbucks, Zulily
  • Transition to B2B at SAP
  • Now CMO at LiveRamp

• LiveRamp’s Mission:

  • Data collaboration for the world’s biggest advertisers
  • Securely merges first, second, third-party data in “clean rooms”
  • Powers improved customer experiences for brands like United, Hershey, Netflix, and Spotify

3. Why Brand Matters More in the Age of AI (03:00–05:08)

• Core Insight:
  • AI flooding the market with content increases decision paralysis for consumers
  • People default to brands they already trust—trust becomes the filter and differentiator
  • The “signal” of a strong brand cuts through AI-generated “noise”

Quote:

“If I ask AI for the best running shoes, I’m going to get this huge list…so I will go to the brands I trust. …When there is so much noise, the importance of brand goes up.”
— Jessica Shapiro (03:31)

4. Making the Business Case for Brand in the Boardroom (05:08–07:46)

• Challenge: CMOs must justify brand investment versus performance/growth marketing, especially under pressure to prove ROI.

• Approach:

  • Frame brand investment as “offense” (long-term value, increased customer lifetime value, faster purchase decisions), not just “defense” against commoditization
  • Brand-building metrics can include brand preference, brand health, and decision velocity

Quote:

“Building brand is building long-term value. …If they know your brand, they’re going to make a faster decision.”
— Jessica Shapiro (05:41)

5. Harmonizing Brand and Performance Marketing (06:51–07:46)

• Key Point: Brand and performance marketing are most effective when harmonized, not seen as opposites.

Example:

“When I was at Starbucks, …Starbucks still has to have a promotion or a treat receipt to drive you into the store. …Strong brand supports the health of the business and makes it easy for people to buy.”
— Jessica Shapiro (07:03)

6. Human + AI: Enhancing the Creative and Strategic Process (08:48–11:39)

• Philosophy:
  • Magic happens when human creativity and strategic direction are carefully blended with AI’s executional capabilities.
  • Human input is vital in setting clear briefs, strategy, and insights; AI amplifies but does not replace this foundation.

Quotes:

“It is about the human and the AI coming together. That combination is where the magic happens.”
— Jessica Shapiro (08:48)

“Using AI has forced me to think even more—unless I do, AI will just go off in some random direction.”
— Greg Kihlström (09:59)

• Tips:
  • Use AI to challenge your assumptions and stimulate strategic debate before finalizing a creative brief
  • Conduct continuous oversight to ensure AI outputs remain on-brand

7. Fostering Experimentation with AI (12:45–16:10)

• Culture:
  • Create safe environments for experimentation with clear brand and data ethics guardrails
  • Celebrate both successful and unsuccessful experiments to encourage team creativity

Example:

• LiveRamp implemented a searchable AI-powered notebook of case studies and customer quotes, making valuable assets instantly accessible for marketing and sales.

Quote:

“We have clear brand guidelines and we fed that into our AI tools so it catches when things aren’t said the right way…Once those guardrails are created, it gives people so much freedom to experiment.”
— Jessica Shapiro (13:11)

8. Personalization at Scale: Measuring Brand Health (16:10–20:44)

• Dilemma:

  • As generative AI enables one-to-one personalization, each customer’s brand experience becomes increasingly tailored—raising challenges in consistently measuring brand equity.

• Metrics:

  • Maintain traditional KPIs (brand awareness, favorability)
  • Add individual-level quantitative and qualitative checks to ensure brand consistency across personalized touchpoints
  • Balance delight with “not creepy”—respecting data privacy and boundaries

Quote:

“If three people are each having three distinct experiences with the brand, that’s okay…But they still have to have the same takeaway from the brand.”
— Jessica Shapiro (17:20)

9. Trust & Guardrails in AI-Driven Marketing (20:44–22:40)

• Risks:
  • AI malfunctions or poorly designed AI touchpoints can erode customer trust
  • The need for thorough testing before implementing AI-powered customer experiences—mistakes may amplify brand damage

Illustrative Moment:
Jessica recounted a poor chatbot experience during an online order, which shook her trust in the brand—highlighting the real-world stakes of flawed automation.

Quote:

“You have to test solutions and be thorough before letting them go to market. …I got stuck in this chatbot loop…my trust for that brand goes down.”
— Jessica Shapiro (21:13)

10. The CMO Skillset & Future Outlook (22:40–26:24)

• 2026 Trends:
  • The marketing landscape will be “messy and fun” as AI solutions proliferate and consolidate
  • Expect a shakeout: martech stacks may be trimmed; experimentation and peer-sharing will accelerate
  • CMOs should prioritize curiosity, adaptability, and communication for the next 12 months

Quote:

“I think it’s going to be really messy and fun…We were thinking about AI in a theoretical way; now we have concrete use cases. …There’s going to be a shakeout.”
— Jessica Shapiro (23:11)

• Looking Ahead:
  • One year from now, expect clear “winners and losers” in AI, with surprising successes and failures

Advice:

“Being curious and perseverant with the ideas you think are the winning ideas…That’s how I stay agile.”
— Jessica Shapiro (25:48)

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On brand trust as a signal in AI noise:
  “When there is so much noise, the importance of brand goes up. The importance of trusting brands. That's what stands out…”
  — Jessica Shapiro (03:31)

• On strategy in a world of automation:
  “Brand-building is not in conflict with growth-driving activities like demand gen. It lives in concert with it.”
  — Jessica Shapiro (06:51)

• On creativity with AI:
  “If you use more human power in strategy up front, then you can let the AI go… But you have to make sure it works and don’t just let it run without the right direction.”
  — Jessica Shapiro (08:48)

• On fostering experimentation:
  “Once those guardrails are created it gives people so much freedom to think about use cases where they can experiment…”
  — Jessica Shapiro (13:11)

• On measuring modern brand health:
  “In the aggregate you’re measuring the brand, but you’re also going down to the person level…making sure you’re inspecting that the brand is giving off consistent brand attributes.”
  — Jessica Shapiro (17:20)

• On CMO mindset in 2026:
  “I think in a year from now, we’re going to be surprised by some of the things that we didn’t really even think we could do, and some of the things that just are cluttering the space.”
  — Jessica Shapiro (24:43)

Key Takeaways

• Strengthen Brand Trust: In a saturated world of AI content, trust in the brand is a critical filter and competitive edge.
• Marry Human and AI: Use human ingenuity for strategy and brand direction; deploy AI for scaled execution, but always monitor and direct.
• Experimentation Culture: Encourage trial and error with the right guardrails; celebrate both small wins and instructive failures.
• Personalization = New Metrics: Retain traditional brand measures but supplement with qualitative and quantitative checks on brand consistency across myriad tailored experiences.
• Prepare for Martech Shakeout: The coming year will see consolidation, peer learning, and a need to cut back to essential tools.
• CMO Superpowers: Cultivate curiosity, adaptability, perseverance, and a willingness to connect with peers for collective discovery.

For Further Engagement

Learn more about Jessica Shapiro and LiveRamp by following links in the show notes, or reach out to host Greg Kihlström for consulting and advisory services at GregKihlstrom.com.

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