The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®

Episode #819: Recurrent CEO Andrew Perlman on the Role of Traditional Media Companies When There Are 1.1 Billion Active Content Creators
Published: February 27, 2026
Host: Greg Kihlström | Guest: Andrew Perlman (Co-founder & CEO, Recurrent)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the seismic shift in the media landscape driven by the explosive rise of the creator economy. With over 1.1 billion active content creators now in play, the line between brands, publishers, and creators is blurrier than ever. Host Greg Kihlström brings on Andrew Perlman, CEO of Recurrent (owner of Popular Science, Dwell, Outdoor Life, and more), to discuss how traditional media companies can leverage their authority and authenticity amid this new abundance, and what lessons other brands can take from their approach in building engaged communities.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Evolution of Content Creation and Consumption

• Creator Economy Explosion

  • With billions of creators, the old distinction between brand, publisher, and influencer must be rethought. (00:32)
  • “Agility requires not just reacting to new platforms, but fundamentally rethinking who creates your content and how you build an authentic community around it.” — Greg Kihlström (00:26)

• From Influencers to Brand Builders

  • The term ‘creator’ is shifting beyond short-term influencers to those building long-term brands and communities. (03:53)

• Strategic Focus at Recurrent

  • Recurrent builds on trusted vertical media brands with loyal audiences, occupying niches where “content and commerce converge” (e.g., home, automotive, military, science). (02:32)

2. Content Saturation and the Return to Brand Authenticity

• Cutting Through the Noise

  • Perlman emphasizes the value of “brands and trust” especially “in the age of AI” as content becomes more commoditized and abundant. (06:09)
  • “Brands matter. And I think actually in the age of AI, we’re…going to see brands and trust matter more and more as more content gets created.” — Andrew Perlman (07:14)

• Lessons for Brands

  • Content needs to be “authentic to the brand,” especially in passionate, niche areas. Audiences “feel when it’s not authentic.” (07:41)
  • An example: Donut’s Japan street racing video, fueled by the presenter’s personal passion, became one of their biggest hits (12 million+ views). (08:12)

3. The Rise and Nuance of Video

• Dominance of Video Formats

  • “Video is eating the world.” — Andrew Perlman (03:56)
  • Recurrent’s biggest returns have come from shifting to video, creating deeper personal relationships and new event-driven experiences. (03:56)

• Creative Autonomy and Format Choice

  • Universal principle: trust creative/editorial teams to identify formats that resonate, rather than dictate from the top. (09:03)
    • Example: The Drive’s success with explainer videos, such as the viral story about a graffiti artist fixing faulty LA signs (7M+ views). (09:48)

• Authenticity Trumps AI in Content Effectiveness

  • AI is used for testing and SEO—but it’s often the human, passionate, “rule-breaking” stories that end up as standout successes. (11:34, 11:50)
  • “The things that resonate are the things that are truly human, where they ignore all the rules.”— Andrew Perlman (12:23)

4. Building a Connected Media Ecosystem

• Cross-Brand Synergies & Knowledge Sharing
  • Recurrent builds a “center of excellence” where top ideas and lessons are shared across event, editorial, and ad teams—despite being a remote-first company. (15:18)
    • “We really make a hard push to share the best ideas, the best practices...across almost every component of the business.” — Andrew Perlman (15:18)

5. Measuring Engagement, Not Just Eyeballs

• Shift to Engagement Metrics

  • Traditional metrics like page views are no longer sufficient; the focus is on “true engagement”—watch time, time on site, and post interactions. (16:44)
  • Example: Donut videos average over 15-minute watch times, exceeding even traditional TV. (17:21)
  • “The biggest metric to me is watch time, time on site, time engaged…not just, did somebody look at something for 15 seconds?” — Andrew Perlman (17:19)

• Feedback Loops: Data vs. Creative Instinct

  • While data helps with edits and pacing, Perlman says it’s critical to balance analytics with listening to audience comments and fostering internal creator passion (off-roading content, for example, grew out of both team and audience enthusiasm). (18:11)

6. The Future of Media Entities

• 2030 Vision: The Agile, Omnipresent Brand

  • Recurrent aims to be “wherever the audience is”—with flexible, 360-degree approaches (distribution across TV, YouTube, OTT platforms). (19:45)
  • A shift is happening: 18 months ago, most video consumption was mobile; now, it’s TV. Keeping nimble is more vital than betting on a single platform. (19:45)
  • “You have to consistently build a 360 business…we just have to be nimble enough to be where our audience is.” — Andrew Perlman (21:42)

• A Year Out: What’s Next?

  • Perlman predicts exponential growth in their military and defense vertical, driven by experiences like the Military Influencer Conference and expanded video content. (21:57)
  • “Unquestionably…we would be talking about the success of our military and defense vertical…and building a great business around providing an awesome service to veterans.” — Andrew Perlman (21:57)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote / Moment | |:-------------:|:-----------:|:----------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:26 | Greg Kihlström | “Agility requires not just reacting to new platforms, but fundamentally rethinking who creates your content and how you build an authentic community around it.” | | 03:56 | Andrew Perlman | “Video is eating the world. Consumer consumption has really shifted away from text based media and more and more to video.” | | 07:14 | Andrew Perlman | “Brands matter. And…in the age of AI, we’re actually going to see brands and trust matter more and more as more content gets created.” | | 08:12 | Andrew Perlman | Donut’s video on Japanese street racing gangs: "That was one of the most successful videos … I think it’s up to about 12 million views." | | 09:03 | Andrew Perlman | “My universal principle is get a great editorial and creative team and just trust them. It's as simple as that.” | | 12:23 | Andrew Perlman | “The things that resonate are the things that are truly human where they ignore all the rules.” | | 17:19 | Andrew Perlman | “The biggest metric to me is watch time, time on site, time engaged with our posts. It's not just, did somebody look at something for 15 seconds?” | | 19:45 | Andrew Perlman | “You want to make sure that you are at every single distribution point that’s available to you, that’s relevant to your audience, where your audience wants to engage with you.” | | 21:57 | Andrew Perlman | “We would unquestionably be talking about the success of our military and defense vertical and…providing an awesome service to veterans…” | | 22:48 | Andrew Perlman | “I read a lot and I get up at 5 in the morning to clear my head.” |

Important Timestamps for Segments

• [02:32] – Recurrent’s core focus and brands’ role in content & commerce convergence
• [03:53] – Key shift: From influencer-as-content to brand-building creators
• [07:41] – How authenticity in content, especially video, drives engagement
• [08:12] – Donut’s Japan video: The power of host passion and authenticity
• [09:03] – Letting creative/editorial teams lead with intuition; The Drive's content strategy
• [11:34|12:23] – The limits of AI in content creation; human-led, “rule-breaking” content as breakout hits
• [15:18] – Building a cross-brand ecosystem and knowledge sharing
• [16:44] – Measuring real engagement (watch time, not clicks)
• [19:45] – Vision of media in 2030: Omnipresence on every relevant platform
• [21:57] – Top area of growth: Military vertical and live experiences

Takeaways for Listeners

• As content creation becomes more democratic, established brands must double down on authenticity, authority, and passion-driven content—especially in video.
• Trusting creative teams and listening to audience feedback are more reliable than rigidly following data or AI-generated suggestions.
• Engagement metrics (e.g., watch time, time on site) are the true north for content performance, beating volume-driven metrics.
• The most successful media companies will nimbly adapt to device and platform shifts, distributing everywhere the audience is.
• Building a "center of excellence" by sharing what works across teams and brands can enhance innovation, even in remote work.

For more information on Andrew Perlman and Recurrent, follow the links in the show notes.

Note: Ads, promotional breaks, and outro segments are excluded from this summary for clarity and focus.