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The Agile Brand with Greg Kihlström®: Expert Mode Marketing Technology, AI, & CX
#854: PGA TOUR's Zach Carlson on creating an amazing fan experience
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- [00:00]
A
In an era dominated by high definition home entertainment and endless digital distractions, what does it take to convince a fan that a live in person experience is not just worth their time and money, but is something they can't afford to miss? Agility requires not just having a plan, but building a system to listen and to respond to your audiences in real time. It's about turning feedback from a retrospective report into an in the moment action plan. We are coming fresh from Qualtrics X Force Summit in Seattle and we're going to talk about what it takes to engineer a world class fan experience. We're going to explore how a legacy brand moves beyond the traditional event model to create personalized memorable moments and how they use real time data not just to measure satisfaction, but to proactively shape the fan journey from the moment someone buys a ticket to long after they've left the course. Welcome to Season eight of the Agile Brand Podcast. This season we're going all in on Expert Mode, MarTech, AI and Customer Experience, talking with the people and platforms behind the brands you know and love. Again, I'm your host Greg Kilstrom and I help Fortune 1000 companies make sense of martech, AI and marketing ops. Hit, subscribe or Follow to make sure you always get the latest episodes and leave us a rating so others can find us as well. And make sure you check out our sponsor, TechSystems, an industry leader in full stack technology services, talent services and real world adoption. For more information, go to techsystems.com now let's dive in. To help me discuss this topic, I'd like to welcome Zach Carlson, Director of Fan Engagement at PGA Tour. Zach, welcome to the show.
- [01:40]
B
Hey Greg, thanks for having me today.
- [01:42]
A
Yeah, looking forward to talking about this with you. Before we dive in, why don't you give a little background on yourself and your role at PGA Tour.
- [01:50]
B
Yeah, absolutely. So I've been with the PGA Tour for a little over nine years now and my role has always centered something around strategic insights. So measuring our fan preferences and behavior. But then as well as expanding out to, in some instances, players, partners, and all the other stakeholders we have.
- [02:09]
A
Great, great. And for our listeners who maybe are more familiar with the players themselves than the organization, could you maybe frame the PGA Tour as a business? You know, what's its core mission? Who do you consider your primary customers or the fans that you're trying to engage?
- [02:26]
B
Yeah, absolutely. So I'll paraphrase this a little bit. I'll probably get pretty close to it, but our mission is simple, is to deliver the world's most compelling golf product for our fans, our partners, and our communities that we're in. So you know us as a business. The PGA Tour has an interesting history where split off from the PGA of America, you know, Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus were involved in that. And really this iteration of it is centered around creating the best competitive model for PGA Tour players to compete on and everything that comes with that, of course.
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A
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I know, I know we're going to cover a few points there. I want to start with kind of starting at the, at the strategic standpoint here. And from that lens, how does PGA Tour define a great fan experience? You know, is it seamless process on course activations? You know, what, what, what goes into that fan experience?
- [03:25]
B
Yeah, I think it's kind of all of the above. Right. I mean, if you think about the way that we engage with our fans, we have a lot of different touch points. Obviously we have the on site component where we're in, you know, close to 40 cities, depending on which tour you're looking at throughout the course of the year. Then we have our digital properties, own and operated app and website. And then of course, the biggest way that we touch our fans is the broadc streaming engagements we have. So how we measure that or how we define success in those always looks a little different. But I think it's about, you know, finding whichever way that we're engaging the most compelling way, you know, we're competing in a market where there's a lot of other entertainment options. So if you're not delivering on that, then you're going to fall behind.
- [04:10]
A
Yeah. And so your partnership with Qualtrics is centered on getting experience insights. How has the ability to collect this often real time sentiment data fundamentally shifted your strategic approach from being mostly reactive to being more proactive?
- [04:30]
B
I think you hit the nail on the head at the end there. Right. The goal is to be as proactive as you possibly can be. And if I look specifically at our on site engagement with fans, we're once a year. If you compare us to other traditional sports, they're in the same venue either 8 times a year, 41 times a year, depending on the league you're looking at, you have multiple. Obviously you want to get it right every single time, but you have the same vendors, a lot of returning fans, a lot of returning staff, and you have multiple chances to really build that experience for us. In a lot of cases, we are in a city one time a year. So if we're not proactive about getting that right, Then we have to wait an entire year to improve that experience and may not capture those fans that are hitting us one time in capture their interest for future engagements. So using Qualtrics, being able to be proactive in our research, we've introduced a closed loop on site, our owned and operated events model where we're listening in real time, we're able to capture feedback. You know, if you think about the things that are consistent across PGA Tour events, merchandise, food and beverage, hospitality, if there's any issues, you can use the mobile app, you can use QR codes, other ways to get in touch directly with our operations team, and they're able to see that feedback in real time and then do something about it. And, you know, the hope and the thought and the theory is, is that if we continuously deliver on that, then we'll create a better fan experience and have fans returning with us hopefully on site next year at that event, but then also all the other ways that they can engage with the PGA Tour.
- [06:05]
A
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, that's, that's really the holy grail, right? It's being able to use that real time feedback to make a meaningful improvement, you know, fix an issue, things like that, while it's still happening. Could you maybe share an example of where that happened? You know, fan feedback during a tournament led to an operational change on the ground.
- [06:27]
B
Yeah, definitely. So a couple of weeks ago, we had our marquee event for the PGA Tour, the Players Championship right here in Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida. And there's an interesting event that happened. There's actually a crime across the street from the course late one evening, and then the perpetrator actually fled on site to try and hide on the golf course. Why that's important for us is that it shut down a lot of operational things. You know, fans that attend our tournaments, a lot of them probably don't understand the amount of work that goes into the event when it's dark outside, in between the hours where golf's finished one day and starting the next day. And, you know, because it was, you know, essentially an active crime scene, a lot of our operations team weren't in, weren't able to go in and do the things that they need to do. If you think about, you know, vendors getting all the food in, if you think about servicing the restrooms, making sure that, you know, all the standalone restrooms have water, soap, all of those things. So if people aren't familiar with tpc, sawgrass hole number four is pretty far out there from the central activity of the Players Championship. And that restroom was one of the ones that didn't get serviced during that evening. First thing in the morning, a lot of fans making their way out there, following the players, got a lot of feedback coming in on that closed loop program that that restroom was below par, needed to be serviced. And so our operations team was able to see that, understand that it was an issue that a lot of people were having, and then direct the resources to rectify that as soon as possible. And that's just, I mean, there's obviously dozens to hundreds of examples of little things like that. But I like that example because, you know, it's kind of to the extreme of it wasn't the vendors lapsing or, you know, not taking care of something. It was a real issue that was caused. But then we learned how big of an issue it was to the fans via the feedback programs the next day.
- [08:26]
A
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- [09:57]
B
Yeah, we're very purposeful about that. The PGA Tour app is kind of the one stop shop for everything when you're getting ready to attend a tournament. And then when you're on site within the geofence, it actually switches over to an event guide version of the app giving you all the things that you need to attend a tournament, all the things you need to know about where to be, where you can find the things that you're looking for, how to follow a player. The app team does a great job of thinking through the digital experience. Obviously the ticket is the first thing. Everything's mobile tickets through the app. So you get you going that way. But then if you think about wayfinding, not just how to navigate the course, but if you're interested in following a specific player, where are they at and how do you get there? Again, relating it to traditional sports, you got your seat, you're in an arena and that's going to be your view at a PGA Tour event. You've got 18 holes plus all other kinds of activation areas that you can walk around and find cool stuff to do. So we use digital that way to educate and inform and then use the technology to actually direct fans to help them find the best experience that they're looking for. And then post event, we rely on a lot of measurement. So we recently launched the Voice of the Gallery program with Qualtrics and that's a post event survey. And on, you know, first glance, a lot of people do post event surveys. You stay at a hotel, you get a survey. Any sporting event, you get a survey. The idea behind this program and centralizing everything is this is the first time in the PGA Tours history that we've had every single one of our events on a standardized survey. And it's not just going out after the event, it's going out each day of the event starting Wednesday at the pro amendment. So we're aggregating all of that information, being able to synthesize it and provide it to the tournament teams daily. So back to that earlier example, they don't have to wait till the following year to get all the post event survey, see how they did and make corrections. They're able to see that nightly. And you combine that with a closed loop program and real time information and then it becomes really powerful. So I think end to end, starting with education, then technology while you're on the site, and then measuring that we're hitting the mark is how we kind of, you know, compromise an entire holistic program to make sure that fan experience is the best it can be.
- [12:18]
A
Yeah, and I want to follow that and talk a little bit more about measurement. So, you know, having access to the data and the stats is important. What metrics? You know, I would imagine you use some traditional metrics like net promoter score and others what are some of the KPIs you look at to measure the success of fan engagement initiatives?
- [12:42]
B
Yeah. So really, fan engagement and then the pure economics everything are the two true north stars that we're looking for in measurement. We've been working on and rolled out recently a fan engagement index. And it's really centered around three concepts. Right. What do fans say? And that's comprised of things like your traditional NPS and your csat. Then what do fans do? Actual measurement of things like linear TV and streaming, where we can get it, visits to own and operated digital properties, social media follows, whether they play at our TPC owned and operated golf courses. So really, everything that a fan can do in our ecosystem and then we measure are we changing fan behaviors? Right. So in a perfect world, you're seeing those indexes go the direction that you want them to and then you're able to dive into the numbers between all those different aspects that I just mentioned on which are the key drivers driving change one way or the other. So that's how we think about it holistically.
- [13:42]
A
Yeah, yeah. And of course, you know, we've been focusing a lot on the fans here and certainly a key part of this, your experience management efforts also extend to players and as well as sponsors. How do you measure and communicate the value of these types of experience improvements to these different types of stakeholders who might define success a little differently?
- [14:05]
B
Yeah, I think that's a more complicated approach. Right. I mean, we spent a lot of time building up these FAM programs and as I mentioned, nine years for myself. And I think they're at a lot greater maturity than our other programs are right now. But we have a lot of opportunities for both our partners and our players to provide their feedback. Listen to them. Then Qualtrics is the tool that we use to synthesize all that. So with the players as an example, you're hard pressed to get professional athletes to sit down and take a survey. But it may be something where we outline all of the things that we want to get feedback on and then use Qualtrics to capture one on one conversations that they're having with leadership or a player relations team and then be able to distill those insights down into what someone would actually need to take action on that. The employees at the PGA Tour are another area where we're a little further along. So we use Qualtrics for employee engagement just to measure the experience of being a PGA Tour employee. Right. I mean, at first glance, working in sports is something that's really attractive to a lot of people, but you can't rest on that. And I think our talent and culture team understands that. So measuring from start to finish, from the hiring process to then, you know, being an employee, the benefits, all the things that go along with that, our EX program really lets us keep a pulse on how employees are feeling. And then, you know, as we go through change, seeing how that relates and measures that way.
- [15:37]
A
Yeah, yeah. So looking ahead a little bit, how do you see things like AI, predictive analytics and other things evolving the fan experience? You know, are we moving towards a future where, you know, we're. We're at one to one personalization for fans or, you know, where. Where do you see things headed?
- [15:57]
B
Yeah, I mean, obviously that's a dream goal. Right. We mentioned at the start of this conversation that each fan's experience is a little bit different. And if you're able to provide a personalized experience, that's how you're going to attract fans and keep them engaged. I think AI is going to be a really powerful tool for us as we move forward. You know, I think about things that were announced at x4 a couple weeks ago and something like synthesized panels. You know, we do a ton of direct research with our fans, but there's also an appetite to grow our fan base into a younger and a more diverse audience. And if you think about the type of person who is signing up to do research with the PGA Tour right now, they're probably falling into our more core fans. So when we need the opinion of fans that we may not have reached yet, I see that as a really great opportunity. I'm really interested in learning more about, you know, what those AI capabilities can bring to our program and help us. If we're not reaching that audience directly, then synthesize it and see, you know, kind of what directions we may need to pivot based on that.
- [17:02]
A
Yeah, yeah, I love it. Yeah, definitely. That's a. That's of of high interest to me as well. I had a couple interviews at X4 about that. That very topic.
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B
So it is a hot topic. And yeah, it got the gears turning a lot. So I'm looking forward to the conversations we'll have on that in the future.
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A
That's great. That's great. So, yeah, as we wrap up here, a couple last questions for you. I know X4 was a couple weeks ago at this point, but what was the highlight for you?
- [17:28]
B
I think for me, it's a lot of the same things usually is getting to meet peers in the industry and specifically the sports industry x4 does a really good job of bringing experience, management leadership from all of the different sports leagues together and we're able to bounce ideas off each other, vent a little bit maybe and really just get a sense on where people are excelling and what you may be able to attribute to your program. So really it's the connections as a specifically in the sports industry, but then across every industry too. I mean there's just a lot of leaders in the same place thinking about the same problems and maybe in a different way than you are. And I always just find that extremely valuable to connect with those people.
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A
Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Well Zach, thanks again for sharing today. One last question for you. What do you do to stay agile in your role and how do you find a way to do it consistently?
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B
I think it's continuously always be willing to learn. You know, even referencing what I just said, talking to other leaders in the space or you know, diving into what your peers programs look like. This space is continuously changing. New tools are becoming available all the time. Obviously Qualtrics is one of the leaders in that. So I think, you know, making sure that the things that you do consistently are still really good, but keeping your ear to the ground on how you may be able to improve your programs is the way to do it.
- [18:53]
A
Yeah, Love it. Well, again, I'd like to thank Zach Carlson, Director of Fan Engagement at PGA Tour, for joining the show. You can learn more about Zach, PGA Tour and Qualtrics by following the links in the show notes. This episode is brought to you by Tech Systems. They're leaders in full stack tech services, talent solutions and helping companies put it all in action. You can learn more@techsystems.com that's teksystems.com and thanks again for listening to the Agile Brand podcast. If you like the episode, hit subscribe and drop a rating so others can find the show too. And if you're interested in consulting, advisory work, or if you need a speaker for your next event, feel free to reach out. Just visit GregKilstrom.com that's G R E G K I H L S T R O M the Agile Brand is produced by Missing Link, a Latina owned, strategy driven, creatively fueled production co op. From ideation to creation, they craft human connections through intelligent, engaging and informative content. Until next time, stay curious and stay agile.
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B
The Agile Brand.